Ep 26: Jordan Reasoner on Life & the Outdoors

Welcome to the Rewild Gear Podcast. Modern life, society, and responsibilities have domesticated us, but now it's time to rediscover your adventurous side. Whether that's camping, hiking, hunting, fishing, or just spending time in the great outdoors, this is the podcast for you. Join us as we get back to the wilderness and rewild.

Welcome to the Adventure Made Podcast.

I'm your host, Seth Spears, and I'm here today with my good buddy Jordan Reesner, who has been on the show before and is an avid elk hunter, outdoorsman, backcountry adventurer, tequila drinker, and so much more. Jordan, welcome back to the show.

Uh, thanks for having me. It's good to be here. You're actually in my house. We're hanging out in Montana.

Yeah, this is a live podcast, which we don't do a whole lot of those. Usually it's, uh, via, via phone or, um, um, SquadCast, which is the software I normally use to record them. So this is fun.

Yeah. Yeah. It's good to have you at the homestead. We just spent, uh, an epic adventure week together in the Montana wilderness.

We did, with my brothers and a couple other friends, um, and, uh, had just an amazing time in the wilderness. And it was a very, very challenging experience for sure, um, mentally, physically, emotionally, all the above. Um, I think you were right at home, but you were pushing a little too, I think.

Yeah, yeah, we brought a photographer along, which was amazing. And so wonderful to have Pat there to capture a lot of footage and do some cool shoots for REWILD. But man, camera gear is heavy.

Yeah.

We all had to spread that burden around and it added a few pounds to everyone's back, that's for sure.

Yeah. And I think there's a learning experience that happens when you're pushing yourself to that extreme, when you've got over 50 pounds on your back and you're in new terrain and maybe not that experienced with it. So why don't we just talk a little bit about getting into nature, into the wilderness like that and really pushing your limits? Because I know you've— this is something that you've done a lot and have experienced a lot of deep benefits from. So I'd like to hear, you know, from your perspective all about that.

Yeah, I mean, I feel like for me nature is my primary teacher and I've always learned constantly when I'm in the wilderness, but even more so when I'm trying to do trips like we did last week where, you know, we did a 30-mile loop At 10,000 feet, due to camera gear and things like that, we all had over 50 pounds on our back, which is a lot for the nervous system. And so that type of a trip of 10,000 feet, I mean, that's just— it's a lot of work for your body. And it was beautiful, and it was— there was so much awe and beauty and elegance in nature up there. And we were above tree line, and we were below tree line.

Mm-hmm.

And yet at the same time, it was hard and it was challenging and it was painful and it hurt and it sucked and we were cold and yeah, all those things too.

So we got hailed on.

We got hailed on with huge, huge hail. Pretty cool actually, but still, yeah, not what I was expecting. I say it was legitimately like inch, inch wide. Yeah, hail. Um, but yeah, I mean, I feel like over the years since I was a little kid, even nature was my biggest teacher. And I feel like in everybody's lives there's, there's an era of their life, a facet of their life where they tend to learn and they get the lessons downloaded to them that, you know, they're needing in life. And for some people that's relationship, some people that's parenting, some people that's, you know, their workouts, or some people it's business.

Yeah.

Or their job, career. And certainly we all learn from all those things, but I always feel like with everybody I meet, there's a primary, place where they learn. And there's some of us that learn from nature the most, and, and some of us who are begging to learn from nature and just need to go do it.

Yeah.

But that's always been my biggest place to understand myself, to have better spiritual practices, and just to push myself in a way where I become a better man, a better father, a better business owner, a better person in society. And, you know, we can certainly get into the different facets of what those are, but I feel like there's always a teacher in our lives, and it's definitely nature for me.

Tell me about some of those spiritual practices, 'cause I know you used the term, I'm gonna go pray and poop, a couple times. And I found that to be, you know, an interesting phrasing, but I'd like to hear more about that.

Yeah, well, usually in the mornings when I'm in the mountains, I usually wake up really early at the first light, like 5. I was getting up about 5:30, 5:45 when we were up there.

I was not.

And I, yeah, I tend to wake up before everyone else. And I used to try to lay in my sleeping bag and make coffee, but my poop would always win. Like, my morning poop is always—

The morning constitutional is calling. Yeah, you must listen.

It would always bring me out of my— bring me forth out of my tent and out of my warm cocoon. So I just started embracing that and I'll just, when my alarm goes off, I'll just wake up and get my layers on and get my boots on, 'cause it's usually chilly, and wander my way into the wilderness for my morning poop. And then usually after that, I feel amazing. And like what we were doing, I mean, we were at these beautiful high mountain lakes, like glacier-fed.

Yeah. Beautiful lakes. Incredible.

Every, every campsite was just out of a movie, you know. And so every morning, usually after I do that, I'm usually wandered away from camp, wandered away from everyone else anyway. So I'll find a spot to sit down and, and just spend some time saying my prayers. And a lot of time for me, that's just being grateful and praying for continued guidance in my life and praying for the strength and the capacity to listen to that guidance and the strength to act on it. And kind of just shedding a tear at the beauty of what I'm sitting in front of, 'cause it's always just breathtaking.

That's beautiful.

And so it's real easy for me to just get spiritual in about 5 seconds sitting in front of that view. But yeah, I'm usually just, it ended up being that, I like to have a spiritual practice. I like to pray every morning, and in the mountains it tends to just be easier when I've already wandered off to have my morning poo.

You're unplugged.

So when I'd come back to camp, everybody'd be like, where were you at? I was having my praying poo. Time for breakfast and coffee.

Nice. I found myself doing something similar, not necessarily because I was going off to relieve myself from the prior night's festivities, but More just waking up and making some coffee and then just kind of going off by myself and just looking at the sky as the sun is coming up over the horizon, or up over the mountains really. Um, and especially where there was the flowing water, because the, the first couple nights we were at some of those mountain lakes and they were beautiful and everything, but to me there's something just immensely peaceful and beautiful about flowing water. And so some of those little streams, like where we camped on Wednesday night I guess, um, was just Amazing. It's just this babbling brook. I mean, we're in Montana, and so it looked like something out of what's the fly fishing movie? A River Runs Through It. Yeah. I mean, that's pretty much what it looked like. And so just incredibly gorgeous. And so, you know, I made coffee and just kind of went off by myself and just sat and just listened to the water and just did some breathwork and just tried to be grateful and present. I've got a friend who who gave the advice. Um, everything you do, ask God, what do you want me to know? What do you want me to do today? Or in this situation or whatever. And so I kind of made that my mantra, um, during part of the trip and just, okay, God, what do you want me to do? What do you want me to know? What do you want me to do today? Um, and just kind of dove deep internally as far as myself and just, you know, what I'm supposed to be learning from, from this experience. Because whenever you're pushing yourself to the limits, that's when we grow. It's only when we're out of our comfort zone that we're actually learning and growing.

Yeah.

And that's why learning is hard, I think. And so that was, um, a really beautiful part of the experience for me. Um, just, you know, sitting there just before everyone else is up or around and getting— cleaning up camp or making breakfast and getting ready to go hike again. But just kind of taking some time for myself and just enjoying nature in all its glory.

Yeah, yeah, it's beautiful. And, and too, part of it is just the effort and physical exertion it took to get to that location that you get to consume or be a part of. I feel like that all just leads to like a deeper level of openness to, to those types of spiritual practices or moments, because there's just not a lot of human beings that have seen the sights that we got to see last week.

Well, it takes a little bit of effort and skill and maybe mental toughness as well just to make it through that type of terrain, just because it is technical and incredibly challenging.

Hmm.

So some of those rocks that we were climbing over were pretty gnarly. Um, and you gotta, you gotta push through.

Yeah.

One, one of the things that I also really like being in nature, um, especially while hunting. So opening morning of deer season back in Kentucky, you know, you're up at the butt crack of dawn. Um, the sun isn't even out yet and you get in a deer stand and, you know, you grew up in Michigan, so you know what this is about. It's being, being in a stand really early and just watching nature wake up and come alive. And whether that's the birds start chirping or moving around or the squirrels or the deer or what But just seeing the world wake up. And that's not something most people do on a daily basis other than, you know, they're waking up or their kids are waking up or wife or husband or whatever the case may be. But just seeing nature in all of its glory, and it's a different experience. It's kind of surreal. And so, if you've never done that, it's hard to explain it. But that was kind of what this was like for me as well. And it's just that something deeply spiritual and deeply I don't even know what word I'm looking for here, but it just resonates internally with me.

Yeah, it seems like it just taps into an ancient part of our DNA that we don't experience often anymore. And there's just a quietness and a renewal that happens for me out there. that I just can never get if I'm at my house in Bozeman.

Yeah.

And that's, that's part of the medicine that those trips can bring. And for sure, I'm super curious to hear your podcast you recorded with the brothers about your experience of the trip. I haven't gotten to listen to it yet, but I'm very curious.

Yeah, everybody had a, had a different experience, um, just in what they took away from it. Um, mine was definitely more internal, just going internal during the hike and just, you know, I had different mantras each day as far as how hard it was and what I was thinking about, whether that was relationships or friendships or business or things that I needed to do. Um, and just concentrating. It was like, I would almost like, there was a time when, you know, I was just thinking through some stuff and I was just getting angry. I mean, and I was just filled with rage and it was like, I took that and tunneled that into the hike and just one foot in front of the other. And it was like, it led me to push myself even though I'm like, I'm exhausted and tired and wanna stop and just.

Yeah.

sit down and have a drink, you know?

Mm-hmm.

Um, and so it was kind of a motivating factor. And then there were other days when, um, or I guess the last, the, I think it was the last day, um, or maybe the second last day when we had the really long hike and, you know, up all that really steep terrain. And I started thinking about different things that people have done over the years that are really hard or challenging. So I, and I started thinking about my wife as far as, um, birthing children. And it's like, Seeing the most painful, hard thing that someone can do is like, okay, if she can do that, then I can do this. And it was like this motivating thing internally. It was like, come on, Seth, you got this. Push, push through. Yeah, it's hard, but it's not that hard, you know? And so it's pushing yourself through adversity. That is really when we grow and can see what we're made of and how strong we really are. And I think a lot of people in this very soft society in which we live. They don't ever do that. They don't push themselves to extremes. Maybe it's on the athletic field in some capacity, but then after high school, how many people do that, you know?

Yeah.

But in our day-to-day life, we've gotten soft, and so we don't do a lot of that.

Yeah, you're right. And it's, it's becoming more and more rare, I think, for people to have mental toughness in life. I really believe that it's a practiced skill that you have to learn and then practice. And if you stray from it and get comfortable goes away.

Yeah.

Even for me in my offseason when I'm not in the mountains as much and then I get back in the mountains, it's always abrasive, you know, to lean back into it. But yeah, these, these hard hikes are so challenging in, in many ways. But it's interesting because I have enough reference points of being through the most hellacious brutal hikes that I could possibly imagine, where my whole body is on fire and my feet are screaming, my shoulders are screaming. I can't imagine putting another foot in front of the other, and I just want to collapse and cry and, you know, call for help because I can only do—

That was me Thursday night. We finally rolled into camp.

But the fascinating thing is if you really understand the science behind what's happening in your body, it's just your nervous system kind of wigging out and sending you a lot of pain signals that are not necessarily indicative of an injury. They're just indicative of your nervous system wanting your pack off your back.

Yeah.

And the next morning you wake up and you're like, I'm fine. I'm a little sore, but I'm fine. Like, what? I thought I was gonna die yesterday, but I'm a little sore in my neck, my shoulders, maybe my feet or My quads are a little sore, but I'm fine and I can do it all over again. And those moments of just waking up the next day and realizing that it was all just temporary information that I didn't even need to really listen to, those are just great reminders of like, I'm gonna be okay. I can do anything for a few hours. And the mental toughness thing though, it's like, you know, I really respect your practice of cold plunges and we did a few up there in the— It was nice. And then the glacier melt, um, probably in the high 30s if that. That's the same kind of thing. Like, if you do cold plunges every day, you get that mental toughness acquired over time. But if you stop for a while and you start back up again, it's a real cold.

Yep.

And it's a lot harder. Yeah. And, uh, these, these types of hikes are the same thing. You know, Jake and I do a lot of these in the springtime when we're looking for shed antlers, and then in the summertime when we're going to these high mountain lakes and fishing, and then in the elk season when we're You know, hunting elk for days and days and days on end in September. But then when I take time off in the winter, man, that's brutal. March comes around, I gotta start back all over again from scratch.

Well, I think the advantage that you have though is living at something of an elevation, so your lungs don't have to, uh, reacclimate. I mean, they have to a little bit because, you know, you're doubling up, um, the, uh, the altitude that you're at. However, it's not like, like me who's coming directly from sea level where it's like, whoa, this is high, I can't Get nearly as much oxygen as I need right now.

Yeah, you and your brothers were great. I mean, you guys crushed it coming from— we call them flatlanders. Yeah, uh, you guys did. I mean, it's just tough to go, you know, you landed in Bozeman, we're about 4,500 feet, and then you were here for like 12 hours and we were ready up to 10,000 feet. So you guys did awesome.

And yeah, thank you. Didn't feel like it most of the time.

Well, too, and you know, throwing a pack on your back, it's hard to describe to people the, the pain and the challenge that happens when you put a pack on. And I went pretty deep into the rabbit hole of research. The military published a bunch of research from the '70s that they used to do on soldiers that were rucking with a lot of weight on their back. And a lot of it's been declassified because nowadays the modern soldier has most of the weight the majority of the weight on the front of their body with chest plates and chest rigs.

Yeah, yeah.

Um, so it's not as all applicable as it used to be, but for us backpack hunters at elevation, that research is gold and the algorithms that you use. And it's fascinating to look at the science and just see that at the end of the day, it's time under tension. Like, the longer you have a pack on your back, the harder it is on your body. And it's, it's not just like going from 3 hours to 4 hours. Yeah, it's not the same as going from 4 hours to 5 hours. It's twice as hard to go from hour 4 to 5 as it is to go from 3 to 4. And you look at the calorie consumption in that algorithm, you continue to burn more and more calories the longer the hours the pack is on your back.

Yeah.

So at the end of the day, the faster you can get to your location and get your pack off your back, you'll burn substantially less calories than if you walk slower.

Yeah.

And get your pack off your back longer. And that's that 4th day that we were hiking. We had our packs on our back for 7 hours and You know, we were all struggling. It's just a— yeah, it's not even a length distance thing.

It's just, just the amount of time.

It just hurts to have it on your back that long.

And the thing that I noticed, like the last day, so on Friday, which we only hiked what, 4 miles, 4 and a half, something like that?

Yeah, 4.

Um, and it was probably the easiest day of hiking. However, one of the frustrating things for me that day, I guess I was yesterday, technically speaking, um, was that we were stopping more and I'm like, let's just get there. Like the pack is still hurting and like, I want to just keep moving. I'll stop for like 2 minutes, but then like Jake would want to stop and like talk about the flowers or something. And then one of my brothers were like, oh, we can eat this. This is edible.

Let's—

I'm like, no, let's just go. I've got 55 pounds on my back and I don't want to stop and just meander around. Yeah. Um, Yeah, so I definitely noticed that as well. But I mean, there were times when, especially on some of the inclines, where it's just like, I need a breather, I need water, let me catch my breath.

Yeah.

And, you know, stop for like 2 minutes, but not like 5, 8 minutes, 10 minutes, whatever. And so it does seem like there is something with that timing like you're talking about.

Yeah. Yeah, it's a really powerful experience, you know, and it's interesting to see how everyone will react when they get pushed to their edge. And, uh, You know, I— it happens to me every time I hunt, and it's interesting to experience it solo versus with a group because, yeah, it's super vulnerable to be at your edge physically with a group.

And that was me.

Yeah, so what was that like? Why don't you tell me?

Um, I kind of stayed towards the back because I felt like I was in worse shape than everyone, and just, um, there were times I was just overcome with emotion. And it's like that physicality, it's like you've— the central nervous system is feeling something that's not normal that— and you're just like, you're not even sure where it's coming from at times. You're just like just shaking, you know?

Mm-hmm.

And, you know, there were times of sadness, of rage, of ecstasy, of just all these different emotions that would come through. And it was very interesting just to experience that and just push myself through. And just try to just sit with it or walk with it, hike with it, I guess. Yeah, I don't know how to describe it other than that. Just trying to be with the emotion of what was going on and happening, just pushing through those both physical limits but then also mental limits. And that was one of the things that I that I found myself thinking about as we were hiking a lot of that incline the second to last day, I guess, was that. We think that our body runs everything, but really our brain does. And so, so if we can control our brain and our mind and tell, we can tell the body what to do and then we can just push through. And that's easier said than done often. Um, but that was one of the things that I kept coming back to was like, okay, body, listen, this is what you're gonna do. Yeah, you're hurting, but get the fuck over it and just go, you know?

Yeah.

So, um, yeah, and that's not always easy. But that's kind of where my, where my head was at through a lot of it, I think.

Yeah, yeah, you pushed through some really incredible moments of just being completely beat down, and, and, you know, you, you could see it in your eyes that you wanted to stop, you wanted to quit, but you didn't, you know, you didn't. You kept going. And, and, uh, the campsite on that 4th night, I was super proud of you because it was a long day and you were just wrecked physically and emotionally, but you Pushed through, and that's all that mattered, you know. And you, you got to camp, and we got to just hang out and make a great dinner and, you know, shoot some video and hang out at a beautiful lake. And, and the next morning, get up and do it all over again.

And then we saw some cool mule deer that were walking through. That was pretty cool.

Yeah, I'm always reminded in the mountains by— I like David Goggins' 40% rule, and he talks about like your brain is wired to want you to stop and quit when you're only at 40% of your capacity. And it's a survival, like, safety mechanism that kicks in. And he always talks about, like, the moment that I've reached my end and I think that I need to quit and I think that I'm completely done, I'm actually only at 40%.

Wow.

And I have 60% left before I die. And if I go to— if I go that extra 60, I'll die. But my mind is kicking in and all these Survival mechanisms are kicking in, which are incredibly powerful and incredibly persuasive. But that's your sign to go, okay, hey, hi, hi, survival mechanism. We're only at 40%, so that means we're good for at least double what we're doing now.

Another 40%.

Yeah. And, uh, I always liked that, you know, love him or hate him, people have strong opinions about him, but I think that that's always served me when I'm— especially when I'm by myself. Yeah, I don't have anyone to talk to or to Be like, am I okay? I don't know if I'm okay.

Yeah.

When it's just me, that 40% rule has been my default fallback of like, okay, I think I'm gonna die right now, but that means I'm only at 40%, right, David? And it served me well in getting out of sticky situations.

Interesting. So one of the other mantras that I had through, I think it was the last day, so day 5 hiking through, where I kept thinking, Trust yourself, but listen to your body because you know trust yourself that you're gonna make the right decisions and you're not gonna hurt yourself. But also listen to your body if you feel like you're about the hyperextended knee. Well, maybe take that into higher consideration and then don't press so hard or use the walking sticks a little bit more. And so I caught myself doing that. I think that served pretty well in just trying to have that somatic intuition about about oneself, which I think. in this day and age, we can often overlook that, and that's when injuries happen. Or some people get too in tune with it, and then they never push themselves at all, you know. So I think there's a balance there, a fine line.

Yeah. And the way Jake and I talk about it is, is differentiating between, uh, messages and injury.

Yeah.

So for example, with your feet, when you're hiking all day with a heavy pack Your nervous system has a lot of nerve endings that it sends a lot of pain signals from your feet, and they just feel like they're almost like they're bruised. They just hurt and ache. And, uh, that's one of the things that's really challenging when you're on those long hikes is your feet just hurt in your boots, and they just—

Man, I'll say.

We call it, you know, Frito Barkin'. But if you're somebody who's new and you've never experienced that, it can be frightening, and you might think like, oh, I injured my feet. I got— I gave myself plantar fasciitis, or I've pronated my arches, or whatever it is. I don't even know.

I bruised them beyond repair.

Um, it can feel that way because it's such a loud signal, but the truth is that's not a real injury. That's just your body wants your pack off your back.

Yeah.

And it's funny, we get to camp, throw your camp shoes on, like your Crocs or whatever, and you got a good meal going, 20 minutes later it's gone. And the next morning it's gone. And that is different than if you have a real blister.

Mm-hmm.

That is an injury, or you have a hot spot, or you have messed up your arches, which can happen if you're hiking out an elk for too long, or, you know, things like that. That's an injury, you know, an acute injury where you've done some damage. But it's hard if you don't know to differentiate between injury and pain signals. And pain signals are not anything other than your body using some strategies to try to get you to get that pack off your back.

Yeah.

And understandably so, but if you can't differentiate between pain and injury, you'll think like, oh my gosh, this pack, I've hurt myself. But if you realize that it's not an injury, like this isn't a blister, my arches are fine, I'm doing okay, I know what this is, this is a pain signal. I also want my pack off my back. Thanks, body. I'm trying to get there. The differentiation between injury and pain is critical in the mountains because if you don't know that, you can't make sound decisions. If you have an injury, you do need to make important decisions about what to do with your injury, how to triage it, what your next steps are medically. But that's a different scenario than the way your entire body hurts when you have a pack on.

Yeah. How would you explain the difference there to someone who has not experienced this before? And maybe they've never been on a long excursion, like a, a deep backcountry hike like this. And so they might not necessarily be able to tell the difference between, okay, this is just pain. This is a pain signal coming from my body because the pack on my back or the weight that pressing against my feet, um, as opposed to an actual real injury.

Yeah, good question. I mean, I think it's. Twofold. I think one is just understanding what injuries are possible. So, you know, there's certainly blisters, for example, understanding what a blister feels like. If you've got a blister forming on your heel, you're gonna have a giant hotspot of pain.

Yeah, not fun.

And you can also take your boot off and see visually, like, wow, it's a giant blister. That's disgusting.

Don't vomit.

And You can differentiate that between, for me, like hiking with a pack on, the entire bottom of my foot aches.

Yep.

And it just hurts like hell. And what I always notice with those types of things that are just pain signals versus injuries, they never get worse. They're just always awful, but they don't ever escalate. Whereas an injury is gonna escalate. Like if you have a blister, first it starts as a hotspot and you feel it and it's rubbing and you're like, oh, that kinda hurts. And then you let it go for a while and then it starts to form a blister and you're like, oh, this hurts really bad. and then it pops and then it just burns, things escalate. And certainly I'm not a medical professional, but—

Yeah.

But that's how I look for signals with those types of things. And then certainly if there's an acute event, like I roll my ankle and break it or twist it or sprain it, it's obvious. Or if you hyperextend your knee, you have an acute event. But if there's no acute event and you just, your body hurts, for me that's like, okay, This is my nervous system freaking out. And that's my traps and my shoulders, my low back, my feet ache. And they just ache constantly. It's the same constant pain.

Yeah.

Never gets worse, never gets better. It's just the same. And to me, that's always like, okay, that's not an injury. That is my body just screaming at me. But there's obviously a lot of different medical scenarios where you could have an acute injury that you need to be aware of what those Signs and red flags are, but that's a good beginner pace for how to differentiate.

Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. Jordan, you talked a little bit earlier about mental toughness. And so we're both fathers. And so I'd like to hear some of the things that you're doing to instill mental toughness in your own children. In today's society, uh, we're soft. You know, we talked a little bit about that earlier and even kids, they don't have the same adversities, um, as generations ago and they have different ones, um, for better or worse. So I'm just curious, the things that you're doing is to help build up that mental toughness and resilience so that no matter what life throws at them, they have the skill set and the resilience to work through it.

Yeah, you know, what I've talked to my son about is to just try to do something hard every day. And, you know, the definition of hard is different for everybody, but I think that's where practicing mental toughness comes in. So You know, for some of us that might be a workout every day that's hard, or doing an extra, an extra rep when we want to quit, or these backcountry hunts. Um, but, you know, something simple for kids is like having them jump in the shower with the water on cold, and I'm like, see if you can count to 5 before you make it warm.

And make a game out of it.

Yeah, make a game out of it. So for me— and he loves video games and, and YouTube and stuff like that— so for me I try to do little things that are hard that are more like games.

Mm-hmm.

With my daughter, I have a little different approach, but with him, it's, you know, the quick cold showers that are fun or anything like that that can be like a little bit of a push to do something a little bit hard. And in my own life, that too is like the cold plunges or the cold showers or a hard workout or You know, getting up 30 minutes before I really want to. Those little things that just are hard, you know. It's a practice skill to just get used to doing hard things every day so that it becomes over time less hard.

Yeah.

Like, it's just less hard to do hard things if you're constantly doing them. And that's how I look at it. And for me, the, the mountain trips like what we just did, there's nothing really that easy about them.

Sure.

And they just kind of suck at times, and that's part of part of the process. And so there's no amount of cold showers that can get me prepared for a 30-mile thru-hike. Yeah, yeah. Um, you just gotta hike. And so when I'm putting like 300, 400 miles in during shed antler season in the spring, that gets me prepared for the high mountain lakes in the summer, and that gets me prepared for elk season in the fall. Um, and so it's all just And there's been periods of time where, like, I had a really big heartbreak in 2019 that just put me on the floor, and, uh, I stopped doing hard things because my whole life seemed hard.

Yeah.

And I was so sad and so, like, emotional, and, and, um, I found that I got soft in the sense that I just was laying around on the couch, like, didn't want to get out of bed. Like, my whole life was You know, just a struggle. And so for me, during that time, I don't know how you wanna say, I lost my edge or whatever, but it was 100 times harder to go in the mountains and hike because I stopped doing hard things. And I'm okay with that. I think that was a normal response to a very traumatic experience.

Sure.

But it took me a long time to start doing hard things again, and they were so hard 'cause I'd stopped doing hard things.

It's like you lost the momentum.

Yeah. And it's almost like once you stop working out and you start gaining a bunch of weight, it's really, really hard to get started working out again.

Yeah.

That was for me the biggest eye-opener 'cause I had been in this mental toughness practice for so many years and I was so advanced at it.

Yeah.

But it didn't take long, like just a few months for me to go back to square one. And that was tough.

That reminds me of the saying, it takes a lifetime to build a reputation, It takes a lifetime to build a reputation but only 5 minutes to destroy it.

Mm-hmm.

And so it's kind of that same thing. Like the best things are often the hardest things. And doing— one of the mottos that I've had for years and years in business and in life is do the right things long enough consistently and just focus on those. And I definitely haven't always followed that motto over the years and kind of have to keep going back to it. But focusing on those things and staying in motion. The Marines have this saying about, um, just get going. And I'm— this is a terrible paraphrase, but just get going because it's easier to correct when you're already moving than it is to start from a complete stop. Um, so I think that's kind of what you're talking about here. So part of that, I'm curious, when you were going through that really challenging period in 2019, if you would've kept pushing yourself, um, as far as mental toughness and, um, whether that is taking a cold shower or pushing yourself to do that extra rep on the, uh, weight bench or, um, Hike the extra mile, how do you think that would have affected that time period of your life?

Hmm, that's a great question. It's, it's, it's hard for me to armchair quarterback that year of my life, but what comes up when you ask that question is like, I don't even know if I had it in me.

Yeah.

I don't think I could have. And I think that's part of why I'm okay with the way I showed up in life and I— the learning curve to start all over again, start working out again, start going back into the mountains again. I'm just okay with how much it sucked because it was tough enough for me at that time to just put my pants on and make sure my kids had food for dinner.

Yeah.

It was a little bit of a triage for me. I don't think that I could have just been like, yeah, I should have been harder and I should have sucked it up. It's like, man, I took everything I had to just make sure my kids were well-fed and that I could, you know, pay the bills.

Yeah.

And, and that was about all I could focus on at that time. And it just, it just took time. It just took time for me to, to have the capacity or resourcefulness to even be like, okay, Let's start working out again, a little bit at a time.

And sometimes the secret to success is just showing up, not just doing the necessary things and not pushing yourself to that extreme limit, but just showing up and just doing the work. Was it Confucius that said how— let me think if I can remember how the saying goes— how you do anything is how you do everything. And that's a Probably another terrible paraphrase, but does that resonate there?

Yeah, yeah, I think it's how you do one thing is how you do everything in life, for sure. And yeah, I think that there's a— especially with men— a tendency to try to just suck it up and push through. And yeah, I think sometimes that that's just not appropriate. Like, sometimes you just need to be wrecked on the floor and just deal with whatever the hell's going on in life, you know.

And Definitely been there.

Um, sometimes the biggest victory is not putting the gun in your mouth and pulling the trigger. And I mean, that's brutally honest, but that's, you know, at times, like, I look back at that time in my life and I'm like, damn, it's just— I'm just grateful I'm still here.

Yeah.

And that's, that's the win of that time. Like, that's the mental toughness from that time, you know, more than anything. And, and everything else I'm okay with. And yeah, I'm rebuilding my life financially, and yeah, I'm rebuilding my health, and yeah, I'm rebuilding all from that time, but I'm still here and I'm still in my kids' lives. And there could have been a lot of other outcomes that could have come from that time.

Sure.

And, and so yeah, it sucked, and you know, it was a lot of steps backwards in many areas of my life, but I am a lot stronger and I'm a lot happier and I'm just a lot better man. I'm a lot better father than if I hadn't have gone through that experience. I could have just kept coasting the way that I was, and there were some things that just needed to change in my life.

Sure.

And I don't know that I would have changed them enough unless I went through that heartbreak. And so I'm grateful for it. And I think it ultimately is gonna be something that when I'm old and I'm sitting on the front porch, I'm gonna look back at that time and go like, yeah, That was a really cool thing that just caused me to become the person that I became.

Yeah. We were talking a little bit about this on day 5 of the hike as far as we learn more from our mistakes than we do from our successes. That sounds a little bit like what you're talking about here as far as some of those mistakes made over the years and taking a step back and learning from those and taking those into account and just becoming a better person because of them. I think it's also part of being self-aware, being more conscious of life and who we are as humans. But there are so many people that don't do that. They want to play the blame game for their failures and just take all the credit for their own successes. But the truth is no one got here alone and we're never fully responsible for our successes or our failures typically. And just taking personal responsibility for those things. So I find that interesting, especially in today's business world. Of just trying to success at all costs. And then if you fail, it's like, oh, it wasn't my fault. It was this guy or that guy. If I would have had this asset or this leg up, I would have been successful. It's just taking ownership, I think, is so important.

Yeah, and I think you misspoke when we were on the trail first and you said— first you phrased it as like winning and losing. And you're like, we learn more from our losses. than our wins. And then I said, well, maybe they're never losses then.

Yeah.

And then you said, well, maybe the better word is mistakes. And I was like, no, I think, I think you had it right before, because ultimately we're always winning. Even our losses, you know, we're learning something about ourselves, better understanding of ourselves, or better understanding of what we need to work on and You know, I think that's some of the gold that you get from going on a trip like what we just did in the mountains. You get these reference points of like, wow, I did that thing.

Yeah.

So what else can I do? Or, wow, I thought I was at my edge and I woke up the next morning, I was fine. What else am I capable of? And, uh, you know, it's like when I think about my first hike in the mountains, elk hunting when I first moved to Montana, I barely made it a mile with the 80-pound pack, and it took me like 6 hours. And, and, you know, now it's like I can go on a 7-day elk hunt and do 10 miles a day and come home and I've got 70 miles under my belt. And, you know, that trip I barely made it a mile.

And it's— Yeah.

It's just one of those things, like when you have more reference points of doing hard things and pushing yourself, you realize that Literally, with miles in mind, you can go a lot further than you think you can. And, you know, I'm sure with our hike, you know, we probably could have done 60. I'm sure we had it in us.

Maybe. Not quite sure. Maybe if we had another week.

Yeah.

So something that comes to mind here, as, as men especially, um, oftentimes we don't want to take responsibility for our mistakes. And for things that we do and try to place the blame game. And I think with maturity comes that responsibility. And that's something that I've been a lot more cognizant of over the past years, just in my own life, as far as just taking complete responsibility for my own failures or mistakes or things where I haven't shown up as I should have. And then working to improve those. And I think as a society, we're told that we have to show up a certain way. We have to be so tough and, you know, never back down. Not admit defeat, not admit that you're wrong. And I think that's done us a disservice in a lot of ways. So I'd love to hear your take on that.

Yeah, I think that the construct that I would, I would point to for this is the journey from prince to king. And I think one of the biggest decision points or transformations that has to happen to mature from a prince to a king is to take full responsibility responsibility for everything in your life, like ruthlessly. And that's the good things in your life, take responsibility for creating them. The bad things in your life, take responsibility for choosing them and creating them. Whether it's a bad relationship or a failed relationship or, you know, business failures.

Mm-hmm.

Doesn't matter how the business failed. Like part of my 2019 heartbreak was a business failure and I had to take full responsibility even though it was an external event. There are things I could have done in my business that would have made it less susceptible to that external event.

Sure.

And for me, I had a pretty transformative experience with some medicine journeys and I had to come to realize that everything in my life was my responsibility. And at first, it was the most gut-wrenching, like awful feeling in the world to take full responsibility for all the bad things and all the good things and just own that I created them or chose them in some way. It was my responsibility. And it was such a heavy gut punch of an experience to be like, oh, but I like being the victim, you know? But to take full responsibility for them—

Interesting.

was empowering because I believe, and this is a mentor of mine, Libby Payne, that I've worked with for many years. She's taught me that in the process of taking full responsibility for everything in your life, you also then become empowered to create whatever the hell you want in your life.

Mm-hmm.

If you already created everything that you currently have in your life, then you have the ability to create whatever you want going forward. And, you know, I believe that's how a king operates, is like, whatever's going on in your life, you created it and you can change it. And it's empowering. It's, it's exciting. It's kind of thrilling to be like, yeah, I can create what I want in my life, you know?

Yeah.

I don't have to put up with a bunch of crap. I don't have to have a job that I hate.

Sure.

You know, I don't have to be in a relationship that sucks. I can be a better father. I can do the fun stuff in my life I wanna do. I can have more money in my life. And that comes from taking full responsibility from your past too and not being a victim. 'Cause if you're a victim, you're not in control of what you can do going forward.

Yeah.

And so, I don't know about you, but that's pretty depressing. So, I'd much rather be in control and in, you know, in relationship to my life where I feel like I can change it or make it what I want. And that's, a double-edged sword. So that prince-to-king constraint or construct has helped me to think about like the maturation of a man being like, okay, I'm in control of creating my kingdom.

Yeah.

Or you can stay a prince if you want and be a victim and be susceptible to whatever whims happen in life. But I don't know about you, but man, that was really tough for me to To, to feel that responsibility and to realize like, oh man, I did this to myself. I'm my own worst enemy, you know.

Why do you think that it's so easy for some people just to embrace the victim card? Um, that it's almost like something that's wired in. And I've caught myself doing this as well, where either we've been beat down or something, and it's just so easy just to play the victim as opposed to rising above that and, you know, trying to be better.

I'm certainly not perfect. I mean, I still have my moments of being the victim, but, you know, I just think it has to do with our childhoods too. And, you know, there's certainly psychology that's way above my head, but I don't know, man. I think that it's easy. It's easy to be the victim. It's easy to say something happened to me rather than be like, oh, that happened for me. Cool, what's next?

It's a great reframe.

It's just easy. It's easy to say something happened to me.

Yeah.

And it's hard to choose, hey, this happened for me. And it's like, you know, who knows? Like, I was just in Chicago stranded at the airport with my kids. We were trying to fly from Montana to Michigan for a family reunion and a memorial service. And, you know, the flying right now is just insane.

Yeah.

We had our flights changed 4 times. We finally made it to Chicago O'Hare at like 7:00 PM and we had a 9:00 PM flight to Michigan. Then that got canceled. And they were like, hey, it was a Wednesday. And they said, we can't get you to Michigan until Friday. I'm like, I'm trying to make it to Memorial tomorrow. And they're like, you know, sorry. And, you know, I certainly could have been a victim and thrown a tantrum.

Mm-hmm.

But who knows? Maybe that happened for me. Maybe the flight that got canceled was gonna crash and we're all gonna die in some fiery story. You know, who knows?

Yeah.

But, you know, I could see this moment in my kids where they were looking at me like, should we be upset? Should we be anxious? Like, what should we be doing right now? And I could see that they were kind of looking to me to try to figure out what was appropriate to respond to this clerk at the customer service thing. And I was like, okay, cool. Well, here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna have a great car adventure. I need you to find our bags, and if you can find our bags, I'm gonna go find a car. And, and I kind of made it fun with the kids, and we picked out a car that we thought would be fun, and we rented a car from Chicago. We ended up driving like 6 hours to Michigan and got there like 3 in the morning. But, you know, I think that they'll look back at that as a moment of fun adventure.

Sure.

When it could have been like, oh, the airlines canceled my flight, and now we're stranded in Chicago, we're gonna miss some more And, you know, it could have been an experience where I taught them to be the victim, right? And I saw that moment, and certainly I wanted to be a victim. I wanted to be like, hey, screw you guys, I hate you, give me a refund, you know?

Yeah.

Airlines suck. But I could just see them looking at me, and I was like, okay, you got to do the right thing here and take full responsibility for the fact that, you know, you could have flown here 2 days early.

Yeah.

You could have flown here yesterday. You could have driven here. You could— I mean, there's a lot of things I could have done to not put myself in a scenario where I had to be there the night before and wasn't.

Yep.

So I rented a car and we made it work and it was fun. And we, we got there and we made it to the memorial. And it was kind of a fun story that maybe when they're older they'll remember. But again, it's like, who knows if that happened for me? Maybe it happened for me because it was a teaching point for my kids that I'll always remember.

Yeah.

Or maybe it happened for me because the fuselage was gonna blow up. Who knows, you know? But there's a— it's just a lot easier to live life when you say this is happening for me, because the other way around kind of sucks.

Yeah, that's a great reframe. Jocko Willink has the book Extreme Ownership, and it's— this philosophy sounds very similar to that as far as just taking full ownership no matter what happens and just Being the man and, uh, you know, not backing down, um, and not trying to play the blame game or the victim card or what have you. So I like that a lot, especially in relation to kids, because how we show up for them— because they, they mimic everything that they see us do. That's something that I have to look at myself entirely, um, just how I show up and the example that I'm setting for them. Um, and that's hard, you know, in the day-to-day life when we're getting run down with work or family or Whatever the case may be, or just stressed out and just trying to set that example all the time, which can definitely be a challenge.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah. Jordan, one of the things that you and Jake talked about on the trip was the mind and how our brain— how it was designed to be a sponge and soak up lots of information. But because we are so inundated in our day-to-day life with electronics and a plethora of information, the 24-hour news cycle, how it's more like a filter. And how when you come off the mountain because you have been deprived— well, maybe I shouldn't say deprived. Um, when you're not around all of those external stimuli all the time that are vying for your attention that you have to filter through, that it's like information overload and it's complete overwhelm. I definitely experienced that where, you know, I was tired for one, but it was more than that. We got back to the car, it was just like, uh, people, Electronics, things, what's going on, not what to do. Um, you want to talk about that a little bit?

Yeah, it's something that I, I didn't experience until I started to do like, um, 5+ day hunts, but really like the 7-day hunts. And I found that I had an experience and I didn't understand, uh, necessarily what to name it or call it, but then later got to understand more of the science behind it. But basically, you know, over time when you're in the mountains, you know, I think a lot of our systems in our brain and things in our body return to what they were meant to be, you know, the ancient status.

Yeah.

And our brains, you know, pre-civilization, our brains were wired to be a sponge and to absorb information and to make sense of that information as data inputs. And so, for example, if we're hunting and, you know, we're moving through the wilderness, we're absorbing information. We're smelling the animal. Maybe we smell where some elk moved through. We might hear a stick break. We're feeling the tickle of the wind on the back of our neck, so we know that the wind's moving in a new direction now. Um, you know, so we're, we're in a heightened state of information.

Yeah.

But it's less information, but it's more critical information. It's the information that would have saved our lives or helped us get food or whatever. And it usually happens for me by day 3 or day 4 in the mountains. And they say that, you know, 3 days into the mountains, your circadian rhythm fully resets.

Mm-hmm.

But for me, my brain downregulates into that old sponge mode where I'm taking in a lot of information. I'm seeing the weather. I'm noticing the clouds as they change. I'm feeling the wind pick up. I'm kind of feeling some charge in the air if the pressure drops, um, which are all things that are going to keep me safe, make my hunts more successful.

Yeah.

But it takes me a good 3 days to downregulate from the world of like television and our cell phones and constant information happening at all the time. And, and so what I did is I kind of sat you guys down on the way out and I was kind of giving you a warning, like when you leave a 5 or a 7-day period in the wilderness and you go back into the real world, it's incredibly intense. It's jarring, abrasive, because you go from, for lack of a better word, you go from like 10 inputs, 10 sensory inputs at a time to like 1,000 sensory inputs at a time.

That's a lot.

And your brain is, evolved to the modern-day society where instead of it being a sponge and absorbing everything, it's a filter. It has to look at all the information and filter out what's important and let the rest just kind of zing by. And, uh, for me, when I do these hunts, it feels really good to downregulate and get into that sponge space.

Yeah.

But then the first thing that's difficult for me is when I get back to the trailhead and I got to get my truck and drive, and I'm driving back home, it's, it's It's so much information, like the other cars whizzing by and the terrain whizzing by, that for me it's, it's, it's pretty scary. The first time it happened, I had to pull back over and just kind of like breathe for a minute because going over 30 miles an hour was frightening. It was giving me anxiety attacks.

Wow.

And I couldn't understand what was going on, but the truth is that I've just dropped back into sponge mode And I'm trying to absorb all the information of everything whizzing by at 30 miles an hour. And for us, you know, we all got back in the truck and we went— all we could talk about is like, oh, we want to get a juicy burger, you know?

Yeah.

And so we stopped at this town called Red Lodge and went to this really good burger joint, and they had all these big-screen TVs on. I just remember like everybody looking at the screen. It's just so much information.

What is going on?

And you almost kind of numb out and and seem like a zombie, like, duh. But I had to warn you guys, turning your phones back on and all of a sudden, it's like, zzz, zzz, zzz, zzz, zzz, and all those text messages that are flying in and your work email's like, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. And there's just a lot of information that comes flooding back in and you're in sponge mode, so it's very overwhelming and kind of frightening. And it only lasts for me like maybe 6 hours. I get a little fatigued and tired. Sometimes I get a headache.

Yeah.

By the next morning, I'm fine. And it's only just to speak about it so that you can realize like how insane our modern society is. For me, whatever, it lasts 6 hours. It's barely noticeable unless you're really tuned into it. Or if I would have told you about it, you may not even notice it unless I have kind of put it in your head before we left.

Yeah.

But I wanted to put it in your head before we left because When you do notice it, you realize how crazy our modern-day society is.

Yeah.

And how much inputs affect us.

Mm-hmm.

And it's that contrast of being in wilderness and then coming out that really slaps you in the face to make you realize what we're kind of living in on a day-to-day basis.

Yeah. No, I think that's a great explanation. Um, and you know, that's one of our goals with Rewild Gear is to help people to get into nature and the outdoors so they can shut off. Shut off those, uh, those constant pings that are vying for their attention. You know, when we got back to the truck and, uh, well, you know, it was hours until we actually had cell phone reception or whatever. And I finally turned my phone on. Um, I had like 500 emails, like 200 text messages. And I like, I'm like, I'm not even looking at 'em. I, I, I just can't right now. I'm just like, I'm phone down here. I'm just trying to just reconnect where I am and just, you know, absorb this amazing experience that we just had with.

Yeah.

With the wilderness, with Mother Nature. And part of that, I'm curious if you have any thoughts here in relation to your system downregulating, when that happens in relation to how much of a stressor you're putting on your body or as far as how strenuous the hike is or the hunt or how far you're pushing yourself. Because it seemed like for me, because I felt like I was really pushing myself to the extreme as far as just physical exertion and just mentally pushing through it that I didn't feel that downregulation until probably day 4 when it started to happen. Um, yeah, maybe the end of day 3, early day 4, and then we had that really long hike, so it felt like it was back up there again. So I'm curious as far as your thoughts on that and how that plays into it, if it does.

Yeah, my understanding of science is that stress is stress, so the body will interpret stress All the same, whether that's stressful time at work, you're having a hard time at work and you're having financial stress and you're doing CrossFit workouts and you're maybe having some conflict with your partner, those are all similarly interpreted as stressors and they're cumulative. And the way I was taught in the alternative health space is just that it's the bathtub theory. So you can look at it like a bathtub that has 5 faucets all turned on that are pouring water into the bathtub and it overflows. And so, you know, turn off one stressor, like stop doing CrossFit workouts, it's not enough to turn off the water flow and get the bathtub to stop the overflow. And so when you talk about a backcountry trip like this, It's a lot of stress on your body to hike with a pack on. And so you turned off a lot of stressors from life, but you still had a stressor that was pretty intense from hiking.

Yeah.

With a pack on. And so it can take 3, 4 days for the bathtub to stop overflowing because you still have a stressor. And there are some people who these types of hunts or these types of backpack trips are not right for them. You know, they need to go lay on a beach in Hawaii for 7 days, or they need to go you know, rent a cabin in the wilderness where they can drive up to it and park and just go sit on a cabin porch for a week. But for us, I think as we've gotten more and more used to these trips, it's, it's less of a stressor for us to hike 30 miles.

Sure.

Than it used to be. And so for me, and Jake can speak for himself, but I think for Jake and I, you know, we drop into these hunts, it's like 2, 2 days really. for us to drop into that state of being in, uh, a situation where the bathtub is actually draining, you know, not overflowing.

Yeah.

But I can understand why it would have taken you like 4 days, because you still had an incredible stressor.

Yeah.

Of just not being acclimated to that elevation, not being acclimated to that many miles, um, where it's hard to breathe. And so, yeah, stress is stress and it's cumulative and I love the bathtub analogy, and like, it's gonna make sense to me that it's gonna take you longer, and it did to me too when I first started doing this, because we weren't laying on a beach in Hawaii. We're still working hard.

Yes. Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. Um, so one thing that, that comes to mind here is just everyday life. There's a lot of stressors, and one of my motivations with starting Rewild Gear is to help Men specifically, but people in general, to get back into nature, into the wilderness, and disconnect from those everyday stressors of life so that we could reconnect with family and friends. And when we get back to the real world, it could be argued that it's not, it's a microcosm of what it should be, that we can be better husbands and fathers and businessmen and employees and just better all-around humans. And I think that looks different for different people as far as what they need, how they can disconnect. And some people, maybe they can't. I have friends who the idea of going in the woods for longer than about an hour sounds terrible to them, which I don't get at all. To me, I want to be out there a long time. But then when I'm there, it's like, okay, this is actually really hard. And I miss my organic mattress and my hot running water and my non-freeze-dried meals. But I appreciate those things so much more from having put myself through that experience, through living as our ancestors used to do, you know, living off the land or in the wilderness and pushing through adversity. So that when I do come back, it's like I don't take it for granted as much anymore because it's so easy. Hedonic adaptation really is a thing where we just—

Mm-hmm.

We grow to those things around us as conveniences and we expect that to always be there and to get better and better. And so you got to one-up each thing. What would you have to say to someone who doesn't spend any time in nature or in the wilderness but knows that they probably should, but maybe they lack some of that internal motivation to do so?

Oh, that's a great question. I just think modern society today is structured in such a way that We are so far removed from the ancient DNA, the ancient part of us that craves and desires wilderness and nature. Um, we get stuck in a cubicle or some kind of a job that we're not really stoked about. We feel trapped in our job because of bills we have to pay, mortgages we have to pay, car loans. Credit card bills, and, uh, all of that contributes to us being in nature less and less.

Mm-hmm.

And us reconnecting to that deep ancient part of us less and less. And to me, that equals a really unfulfilled life. And if you don't have a life where you have the freedom to go do these things and tap into that part of yourself, it's not much of a life to live.

Yeah.

And I would recommend that people who are listening to this do anything they can to create the freedom in their lives, whether it be one weekend a year or one weekend a month, whatever you can do to get back into nature, even if that's just camping by your car. Because there's something deep inside of all of us that when we do those things we feel more like ourselves. And when we don't, we feel less like ourselves, and we feel like there is a part of us that's not being met. And it just feels gross, and it feels sticky, and it feels uncomfortable. And it, it builds and it builds and builds and manifests into midlife crisis. You know, it manifests in poor decisions.

Yeah.

It manifests in and blowing up your entire life when all you really needed to do was go get outside for a little bit.

Yeah.

And I think if, if we could all do that, and that's what I love about ReWild, is if you can get people to just get back in car— we call it car camping, but you know, you could drive out and throw a tent up somewhere.

Sure.

Just look at the Milky Way.

Yeah.

You know, after dark, watch the sunrise, jump in a lake that's cold. You know, these are the types of things that— call me crazy, but it's wired in our DNA. And when we're not doing it, we don't feel like ourselves. We don't feel like a complete human.

Yeah.

And then when we go do them, we go, ah, it's like a refreshing drink on a hot day. Um, and that is the medicine that I think that a lot of our society is missing right now. And it just breaks my heart because it's so accessible.

Totally agree. I would not call you crazy in that respect at all. I'd call you totally sane there. One thing though is it's getting harder and harder to see the Milky Way, to see the stars, just because of that urban sprawl and just because of light pollution and everything else where we're losing a lot of those wild spaces and places where we can be our most free and just downregulate. And that is something that I noticed just being in nature. And because we were above the tree line for a lot of the trip, or the first part of the trip, and it was like, okay, this is cool and everything. But it was like when we got back below tree line, I was like, oh, it was like this deep relaxation. The smell of the conifers, um, just the alpine— there's some— and the running water and the, the, uh, the, um, the lakes were beautiful, you know, above the tree line, everything. Don't get me wrong, they were great, and the cold plunges and all this stuff. But there's something about the running water and the smell of the trees that it's just like Oh, this is where I should be. Not up there, but right here. Um, that's probably different for different people as far as what resonates the most with them. But for me, there was just something that just felt more at home, if you will, which is really interesting to notice.

Yeah, I think it's, uh, yeah, different strokes, different folks. I mean, for some people that's the ocean and, you know, hearing the waves lapping and feeling the current and, you know, those types of things. And I lived in Hawaii and I got a little bit of that. But yeah, I mean, I feel like whatever it is for you, go do it.

Yeah.

And I feel like we all have a calling that we can feel. And if you, you tap into the impulse and you really tune into it, you can understand it. And for some people, that's like sitting in a tree stand on a crisp November morning in my, you know, in Michigan, like when I was growing up. And for some people, that's the call out west and You know, maybe it's, you know, instead of taking your kids to Disney World next year, take them to Yellowstone.

Yeah.

And, you know, the nice thing about me living here in Bozeman is I've got to see, like, during COVID one of the nice things that for some reason just makes me feel at peace in some way is just that the, the numbers of people coming to Yellowstone are— they're setting records for, yeah, the amount of families that are coming out and going to Yellowstone National Park and Glacier National Park.

Such a treasure.

rather than going to Disney World because they couldn't. And something about that just makes me feel better. Like, okay, a lot more families came and saw—

Yeah.

This beautiful space and got in nature instead of going to Disney World. And something about that just feels good. And I just really believe that if more people got into nature and reset their circadian rhythms and, and, and also went through that process of dropping in and becoming more sensitized, yeah, I just feel like the world would be a better place and And that's why I think ReWild is important that you guys are doing this work because if we can get more people to go out into nature, I think we can solve a lot more problems in the world.

Sure. Yeah, because it's all about just rewilding ourselves and getting acclimated to those different environments. One of the things that has been accused of me over the years is that I can be too extreme at times and it's all or nothing and always in nature, always in the wild or always at the beach or always in snow or the heat or whatever. And at times, yeah, I could be like that. But the one thing that really struck with me this trip and that I had just this immense clarity on was that I don't need just the one thing. I like the balance. I like the seasons. I love the mountains, but I also really love the beach and I want to spend time at both. I like to travel. I like being in the snow and in the heat and all these different aspects and not any one thing at all times. But just having a nice balance of it because then you can appreciate the other. It's that yin and that yang. And because when you have the one, the grass is often greener on the other side. It's when you're hot, you appreciate the cold. When you're cold, you appreciate the hot. When spring is happening, then you really look forward to fall and vice versa. And so it's finding that balance that makes us just appreciate life so much more. And when we only have one of those things, if it's just cold all the time, it's like— You know, you're not really living. Just like if it's just hot all the time, you know, you're missing out on this other— this other part, this masculine, this feminine, this yin and this yang, this balance of seasonality, just life in general.

Yeah. That's very wise.

Yeah. It was just this deep realization that I had on the trip.

Yeah.

Jordan, this has been a lot of fun. We've had a great conversation today and we've gone pretty deep and we're deep into the tequila. Yeah.

Half bottle of tequila. Yeah.

Maybe a little deeper into it. We'll see. Yeah. Um, yeah, so I, you know, I'm— we'll be talking again soon and probably more trips in the future. Um, maybe some shed hunting.

Yeah, that sounds fun.

Yeah, collecting antlers is always a good time.

Yeah.

Um, yeah, so thanks everyone for listening, and if you want to learn more about Jordan and what he's up to, wildernessevent.com. And any, any other shoutouts you want to leave?

Yeah, just, uh, you can follow me on Instagram, just @jordanriesner. Send me a DM if you, you know, just have an interest in wanting to learn more about just getting more into nature. And I'm happy to answer questions people have about just, uh, just getting more into this, uh, this thing we call nature. And Rewild, uh, does a great job of that too. So I was grateful to be here and have a good time.

Yeah, thanks, man. And for anyone that is looking to spend more time in the great outdoors, rewildgear.com has all of the essentials that you need to get outside and spend more time and enjoying God's wonderful creation. So till next time, stay wild.

Thanks for listening to the Rewild Gear Podcast. You could check out the show notes for today's episode at rewildgearpodcast.com. If you're ready to spend more time in the wild, our line of high-quality minimalistic outdoor gear can help you do just that. Check us out at rewildgear.com.