Ep 29: Joel Runyon on Pushing Yourself to do the Impossible

Welcome to the Rewild Gear Podcast. Modern life, society, and responsibilities have domesticated us, but now it's time to rediscover your adventurous side. Whether that's camping, hiking, hunting, fishing, or just spending time in the great outdoors, this is the podcast for you. Join us as we get back to the wilderness and rewild. Welcome to the Adventurous The Nature Made Podcast presented by Rewild Gear. I'm your host, Seth Spears, and today I am here with my good friend, Joel Runyon. He is an endurance athlete and entrepreneur and the founder of Impossible, a performance lifestyle brand dedicated to helping people push the limits and do something impossible. In 2017, Joel became the youngest person to run an ultramarathon on every continent while raising over $200,000 for education nonprofit initiatives around the world. Joel, welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me, dude. Excited to be here.

Yeah, good times. Joel, why don't we just get started by just kind of telling your background story and how you got into endurance athletics and ultramarathons and all that stuff and to where you are today in business and entrepreneurship and all the fun things that you're doing?

Yeah. So, got started, let's see, this is a long time ago now. So, it's like basically graduated I graduated college and I kind of had lived up to that point, kind of lived my life like you're supposed to get good grades. I was doing multiple sports, got a great GPA, learned another language. It was just kind of following the script life laid out for me. And then, the next thing was graduate and get a job. And, I feel like since I was a kid, everybody always knew what they wanted to be and I never really had something like that. I had my own little lawn mowing business at one point because I was like, I'm not working at McDonald's. I'll just make a bunch of money on the weekends and I can do it really quickly. And so, when it came time to graduate and go to school, it was also in like— or get a job after school, it was 2009. It was right in the middle of the recession. And so, it was a terrible time to graduate and I had done all the things you were supposed to do and then kind of got spat out in life. And then, was just kind of floating for a minute. And it was a little bit depressing. I was like back at home in my parents' basement.

Yeah.

And it was also just like, I'd done all these things that you're supposed to do and life isn't turning out like it's supposed to. And so, I was kind of thrown into entrepreneurship. You know, there's a long story like of, you know, me applying to Target and Starbucks, and I couldn't even get jobs at those places at this point because the economy was so bad. Uh, yeah, I did like a short stint at UPS, and I was just like sitting at home in my parents' basement after getting laid off after like a seasonal Christmas push. And—

Oh yeah.

Um, just being like, is this really everything that it's cracked up to be? And so I started getting into websites, started playing around with websites on my own, learning stuff about that. Ended up poking around. I was like, I don't know anything about internet marketing, but I like the internet. I'm spending all my time on it and I like marketing, so maybe I'll put them together. And ended up taking like this super entry-level position at a marketing firm for like a little bit and then basically used that and started a blog at the same time and used that to like find some traction in the world.

Okay.

And the short version of that is I worked my way up from like entry-level sales guy to like marketing director at that firm. Got recruited to another firm, did that for a little bit. And then after like a couple years of just doing agency work, I realized like I could be doing this for myself. So, uh, kind of had a bunch of projects, Impossible and a few other nutrition health-related things I was spinning up at the same time. And it's just like, I'm just gonna go all in on, on that. So that's a— it's, it's a little bit more complicated than that, but that's kind of the short version of it. Sure.

Gotcha. So, let's dig into Impossible a little bit, where that concept came from. And, I know that's tied into some of the endurance racing that you've done. So, let's hear a little bit of that story.

Yeah. So, I mean, it kind of runs in tandem with all this stuff. So, I had graduated, I got this UPS thing for the seasonal work and got laid off and I just sitting around my house, I'm like, I did all this work and this is what I have to show for it. I did all the things I was supposed to do, And, this is what I'm watching Netflix in my parents' basement and that's it. And, Starbucks won't call me back. So, it wasn't a good place mentally. I was pretty bummed out and I had things I wanted to do. I wanted to travel the world. I wanted to start a business. I want to do all these things but I didn't have any money. I didn't really have the confidence to start a business. And, I couldn't even get a job at Starbucks. So, everything really felt impossible to me at the time.

Mm-hmm.

But I sat down and I started writing out things I wanted to do. And even if they seemed crazy, I just wrote 'em down. And I would come back to this list and just feel bad about myself on a regular basis. Like, oh, you can't do that. So can't do that. Can't do that. But then there was one thing on the list that I could do or that I came to and I didn't have a reason why I couldn't do it. And that was run a triathlon. And I'm like, you got the time. You Got the equipment. You could run around your parents' house on your shoes and you can get your middle school bike and bust that out and ride around the block. You could train for this if you want to. But, I'd never done any distance stuff. I was an athlete but I'd never done any— I've never run more than a 5K.

Yeah.

And so, the idea of doing that was crazy to me. And so, I eventually just bit the bullet, signed up for a race, and I trained for 6 weeks and I went ahead and did it.

Wow.

Um, it was an indoor triathlon at Lifetime Fitness, which is like the easiest level of triathlon you could ever, you know, possibly do. But like when I finished that race, I had this moment where I was thinking to myself, uh, it was, you know, you spent so much time telling yourself that this was impossible and you just did it. If, if that's true, what other things out there that you think are impossible could you do if you just went out? And trained for it. And so, that led me down this endurance path of training for one race and training for multiple races, training for longer races. I'd mentioned I never ran more than a 5K, but through these triathlons, I basically tricked myself into running half marathons. And then, I was like, oh, I guess I'm a runner now. And then, I got into half marathons, marathons, then started getting into the ultramarathon space. And so, So, that's kind of how it's built up and it's— they're really interesting races specifically are really well designed to every time you push yourself to the edge of what you think you can do, there's always another distance. So, there's another type of race or there's, you know, it can be farther, it can be more challenging terrain-wise. There's a bunch of different ways you can go about it, but it's always interesting. You get down— Done with one race and you're like, I'm never going to do that again. And then once the pain wears off, you're like, maybe, maybe.

Got it. Now, pushing yourself like that, I'm guessing you went from the list that you had made of all the things you wanted to do and like, you can't do this, I can't do that, to the triathlon that like, oh, I can do that. And you did it and you push yourself. Tell me about the mindset shift that happened there.

Yeah, so it's actually really interesting because there's a quote that goes like, how you do anything is how you do everything.

And yes, I love that quote.

And I was like stuck in my parents' basement feeling bad about myself from work, but it was also just like bleeding over in my life. I was just sitting on the couch every day, like not doing anything. Mm-hmm. Um, and so once I found some way to get some real world, real world traction on like doing something with my body in the physical world, I started to realize that like, okay, the, the narrative I've got in my head of like, you can't do this triathlon is actually not true. It's literally not true cuz you just did it. And so, there's something off about what the story of what you're telling yourself is versus what reality is actually like. So then, it kind of becomes a challenge or an adventure of finding out what reality is actually like. And, if you're going to push yourself, how far you can start pushing yourself. And so, what really unlocked it for me was I call them reference points in races. There's a lot of— for the first race I ever did, it was at the finish line. I finished it and I was like, oh, I still don't think about myself as a triathlete at that point, as a runner or whatever, but I just did a triathlon. So, I guess I am a triathlete. That's like—

You did it.

Yeah, it's factually true. So, even if my brain wants to think that I'm not, It is. So, you kind of update your operating system there and then you say, okay, given this new operating system, where do I go from here? And so, one of the things that I love about physical challenges and adventures is that it gives you unfalsifiable proof. If you just do mental challenges or internet stuff, sometimes it's easy to trick yourself into still living in your head. But, when you have to get out of your head and into your body, you start realizing of what are real-world accomplishments that can't be denied that are like, you know, if you write them down, you make them part of your list and you write them up, you talk about them, uh, you can always point back to another situation and you're like, if you're in the middle of a place right now where you're like, I don't know if I can keep going, I don't know if I can keep pushing, I can look back and be like, well, you know, I thought that like mile 40 of, uh, the race in Antarctica and I somehow finished that thing. So it's like. Just because, uh, you know, your head is telling you one story doesn't mean it's actually true. And it's really good to continually remind yourself that like you can do way more than you think you can. So yeah, um, I don't know if that answered the question, but that's kind of like how physical challenges in general, um, they just continually update like, you know, your worldview and like where you're at and what you're capable of.

Sure.

Because most people don't actually physically push themselves out to the point where you have to do that manual override and just keep going.

So, I'm really interested in this, the mind-body connection and which tends to drive which. And so, I just got back from Montana doing a week-long backpacking trip, 10,500-foot elevation, over 55 pounds on my back for 5 days hiking 35 miles over the course of a week. And, that's very physically exhausting. It's probably one of the most physically, mentally, and emotionally exhausting things that I've ever done. And during part of that, the hike, when we're hiking 5 miles up really steep terrain and then down steep terrain, and I'm physically exhausted, but also mentally as well. And I kept going back and forth in my own head, which is leading which? Is my brain leading my body or is my body leading my brain? And at times it felt like it was one, then it was the other. So it was like my head was telling my body, push through, you can do it. You're strong, you can do it. And then, it was like sometimes my body had to tell my brain, get out of your own head and just go and quit thinking about it and just act. So, I'm curious as far as your experience, is it mind over matter? Is it matter over mind? Which is it?

Yeah. So, I find there's a default, there's always a background voice of like, hey, you should quit, you should give up, whatever. So, that's kind of the default And, I usually call it doing a manual override. So, you get into the— you're up in the mountains and you get super tired and your brain starts hurting and there's these ruts that it's easy for your mind or your thoughts to get into. And then, they kind of play on each other like you said. It's like, oh, I'm hurting, so now I'm tired.

Yeah.

You know, my legs hurt, so maybe I should slow down. And then, like, you know, it's easy to let yourself kind of spiral downwards like that. Um, what I always find is just like there's a piece, uh, at the beginning of the races that nobody ever talks about. And I always— people always want to know, like, how do you keep going when it goes hard? And, um, usually the answer that I give people is like, it's not an option, uh, to quit. Like, quitting isn't an option. Um, when I have done all of my races, uh, it's usually like, uh, if I show up to the starting line, I'm finishing it. It's like, I— unless I break a leg or like I'm like actually really hurt, like, I'm not giving myself the chance to back out. And I think a lot of people don't do that. And so when they find themselves in the middle of a hard situation, they're looking for the exit points and they've, in their mind, they've set They've like preset, like, if it gets too tough, then like maybe I'll leave, or maybe like they haven't actually committed to the end goal. And so when they're, you know, they're— those ruts start coming, they're like, oh, I am tired, I am worn out, I am exhausted. They start like looking for the exit ramps. And so what I find is like that those are going to happen either way. Like, you're going to be looking, uh, for those exit ramps at some point if you're doing anything sufficiently hard. The 2 things that I do to combat that is one, commitment upfront to be like, it's not an option. And when that comes up, you're gonna expect that. But then when it does, you do a manual override. It just doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. And there's ways people do that. A lot of times I just grumble and I mutter to myself. Some people have specific affirmations or— cadences that they go through. One thing that I started doing for some workouts was it was just being overly positive to the point where it's like you're like, I'm lying to myself, but in the process of lying to myself, I'm actually making myself in a better mood.

Yeah.

Or, I'm like, oh, this is super easy, or, this feels great, or, great day, great day to be out here. I'm lying to myself, but I'm basically faking myself into like, yeah, okay, it is Yeah, doing the reverse of instead of being like, oh, this is so hard, this is so hard.

Yeah.

And then your body starts to feel it more. You do the reverse, you're like, oh, this is easy. And you're like, is it?

Maybe.

Maybe it is. You start feeling better. So, so I find, I find there's always like these background processes and then it's just up to you to, to mentally override those because they're going to pop up no matter who you are because it's not fun to be uncomfortable. Like if it was, you know, like It wouldn't be called uncomfortable. Sure.

Yeah. And I think what you're talking about as well, as far as being that dedicated and not giving yourself an out and just saying, I'm doing this, I'm completing it, you know, that's great advice no matter what, whether that's a sport, whether that's a relationship, whether that's a business, in so many areas of life where you're just saying, I'm doing it, that's it, period. And just being dedicated and following it through to the end. And I think as a society, we've gotten really soft and we don't look at it that way anymore. It's like, I'm going to dabble in this, or I'm going to stick my toes in and see how it goes. But there's not really any dedication or pushing through, because it's only when you push through those things that are super hard that you find out what you're made of, what you're worth, and that you can do a lot more than you thought you could.

There's the real aspect of a lot of people try to couch things, and we like to do spectrums these days. That's really popular. And a lot of it's like, it's people are trying to soften failure, right? Like they're basically, they're worried they're gonna fail. And so they don't want to have the failure. So they're gonna be like, okay, there's a wide range of successful outcomes here. And maybe that's true. You know, like you could win a race or you could finish a race. It depends on what your goal is.

Mm-hmm.

But like whatever the goal is, like stick to the goal. And if you fail, sometimes the best things you can do are failing because you had a specific goal and you didn't get to it. And now you have to self-reflect on like what you need to do better next time. Um, but when people pull that, you know, it's, it's under the guise of like, uh, being more helpful to everybody and like you don't want anybody to feel bad. But like, to me, these aren't like other people making me feel bad. This is like a commitment I made to myself. And so one of the things that I find is really underrated is making promises to yourself and then keeping them. And then—

Oh yeah.

Building trust with yourself. On a regular basis. Because if you go out and you do one thing hard, this is like knowing where your limits are and what's reasonable to push. But like, if you go out and you know you're gonna do something hard, but you like trust yourself to get through it, even if you're not quite sure how, and you figure it out and you get through it, even though it was really freaking hard, the next time you have something very difficult to go do, And you're still not sure you can do it, you're like, hey, I don't know how I'm gonna get this done, but I have trust in myself to navigate difficult situations and I'm gonna be able to push through anyways. And so it's that, you know, a lot of people get worried about what other people are gonna think, all this other stuff. And to me, it's much more about like, can you trust yourself to come through for yourself when you're gonna take on something that's like—

Yeah.

there's a delta between what you've done before and where you're going.

Yes.

And do you trust yourself to get yourself through that gap? And most people break promises to themselves all the time and then they try to do bigger things than they're capable of and then they fail and then they lose a lot more trust going forward and then they kind of get stuck in this rut. And I think this idea of incrementally challenging yourself so you're not just pushing yourself but you're building that layer of trust with yourself. Is hugely underrated and really necessary if you're going to be doing stuff that's like continually outside, you know, you know what you've done in the past.

Yeah, that's a great point. And I know in my own life, you know, I will honor a commitment that I made to someone else 100%. However, a commitment that I make to myself, that's a hell of a lot easier to break for whatever reason. And, you know, and that's something that's a self-realization that I've had over the past several months and something that I'm really working on. Because if you can't honor your commitments to yourself, you can't trust yourself, then How can anyone else trust you?

Yeah. And it's like, if you can't make the— yeah, if you can't make the commitments to yourself, like, your commitments to other people actually matter? Like, maybe they do, maybe they do. But, um, maybe you're just doing that because you don't want to let them down, not because you're actually committed to, you know, doing the thing for them. So, uh, yeah, I think, I think always coming back to yourself and be like, listen, this is something I'm coming through for me. And like, if you miss the mark, then you need to reevaluate on it. But Yeah, I know a lot of people that are people pleasers and they want to do everything for everybody else and then it comes to themselves and they never come through for themselves. And then they have like, like a crippling aspect on their self-esteem or what they think they can do because they always let themselves down, but they never let anyone else down. And it just kind of ruins what they're able to do, you know, in their own life.

Yeah. Yeah, totally. Mentally, have you always had this kind of outlook on it or is this something that you've learned as you've done some of the endurance racing and just pushed yourself and built up as part of your own brand?

Yeah. I mean, well, at first it was literally like, I mean, I was kind of the opposite. I did an indoor triathlon. It's not like, I mean, I swam in a pool because I was scared to drown. I was like, if I'm in open water, I don't know, trust myself. So, I'm just going to do laps in a pool. And, it was like you're on a stationary bike at a treadmill. So, it's like I pretty much started at the opposite of whatever, like the smallest starting point for you. I guess I could have done a walkathon or something like that, but pretty close to the start of where you could start with races. And, for me, it was just a natural growth. And, I think I've always been a little bit hardheaded and just like, if I'm going to do something, I'm going to do it, get out of my way. But, It was something where I didn't try to run an ultramarathon after never running before. I wasn't wild about it. I did an indoor triathlon, then I did a sprint, then I did an Olympic, then I did a couple others, then I did a half Ironman, and then I got into half marathons, marathons, and this other stuff. But it was a progression. And, What I think sometimes people do, they get excited and their excitement leads them to do these big leaps, and sometimes they're not ready for those leaps. And so they try to take one, and like I said, they, they haven't figured out how to trust themselves on what they're going to do. So they'll try something really big, fail, and then they end up like worse than when they started. And so what I did, it was kind of like a natural progression. Like I said, I think I've always been a little bit hardheaded. I had an entrepreneurial streak from when I was a kid. But from the mental fortitude standpoint, I think endurance sports and physical, actual physical— there's a lot of talk about inner work and all this other stuff, but I find hard physical challenges transform your mind and your body better than anything else because you can't deny If you've been hiking for 3 days and every piece of you is on fire and you want to— you're, you're over it and you could just sit down and sit in the mountains and lay down and die if you want to. Like, you can, like, you know, you're out in the elements because you're 20 miles in and there's nobody that's gonna like pull you out. So this is why— I mean, this is why I love like trail races is like you end up like that. You're doing like a 50-mile race and you're 20 miles in on the top of a mountain and you're done and you're tired and you're like, what am I doing? How am I going to get home? And you can just sit down and die if you want to. Like, that's an option. Or you could like, listen, it's gonna be just as bad going back as it is going forward. So like, let's, you know, stop feeling bad for yourself, get it all together and keep going. And when you have to do that, that changes your perspective when you come back to like, oh, I'm having a business problem. And you're like, that's You know, it's serious, like you care about your business, but like it doesn't hurt physically in the same way that like, you know, every single muscle is on fire or like, you know, in the middle of a race. I know I have like, like my back, like, you know, will like fall apart, but it's, it's a different perspective. And then you're able to take that same mentality and apply it in, you know, a business is still as challenging, but it's just more mentally taxing. And when you're able to take these challenges outside of your head and experience them through your body, it's so much better in my opinion. And, it gives you real-life reference points to kind of work off going forward.

Yeah. No, that's a great point. Joel, I want to talk about goals and goal setting. There's different philosophies when it comes to goal setting. Some people say that you should set them as high as possible. So, it's like the old saying, if you aim for the stars, even if you fail, you hit the moon. the moon. So it's, you know, you've gotten further than you would have. And then others say, you know, set small but attainable goals because that's building up that self-confidence within you so that you can eventually hit bigger and bigger ones. I'm curious to get your take on that and how you see goal setting there.

Yeah. So, so I basically work off my like impossible list framework, which is, it's a lot of people compare it to a bucket list, but like, it's, in my opinion, it's very different. A lot of people put on a bucket list, they just write a bunch of things they want to do, which is cool. And like, it's kind of like that. Aim for the stars type mentality where you're like, I'm going to try to just do a whole bunch of things. The problem with that is like most people don't end up doing much on it at all because there's not something super actionable. It's like, okay, what are we going to do? Get to the stars. Like, how?

What are the steps?

Yeah. Like, where do you go? And so a lot of people get excited. They make a bucket list one time, never do anything on it. And it's like super exciting, but it just never happens. And so the way I talk about the impossible list is like, what feels impossible right now? Like, you should be pushing yourself right now. But maybe that's not, you know, maybe it doesn't feel like a small step. Like when I did a triathlon, I didn't think it was like a small step. I thought it was like, I might do this. But like I said, it was an indoor triathlon. I purposely did it because I was like scared of open water swim and drowning and all this stuff. So I was like, it seemed like a lot to me at the time. And so like looking back now, it looks like a small step, but it was, you know, I was in such a bad spot that it was like, it was the edge of what I was comfortable with. And so, yeah, uh, I, I like to challenge people, like, what's the, what's the most difficult thing, uh, that you could do, like, relatively soon? Um, because it's not easy. Like, it's not necessarily going to be easy for someone, um, because that's not challenging or that's not actually interesting. But you also don't want to be so difficult that, like, there's 17 steps and, you know, you have to learn a new language to figure it out. It just gets way too big. And so, I didn't have ideas. I didn't even know what an ultramarathon was until I ran my first marathon.

Wow.

I wasn't thinking that far ahead. It was something that you kind of push the edges of your limits and then they expand, then you kind of find a little bit more of what's out there. It's like old video games where it's like the like you start off on a map and everything is blacked out and you don't know what else is on the map until like you send a guy out and then he kind of, you know, he finds a little bit more space around it. And so you don't always really know what you're capable of until you, you know, send a couple little guys out, you do a couple of events. And some stuff it's like, you know, maybe you do it one time, you're like, I hated that, there was nothing fun about it, I don't, I don't want to do it anymore. And it's like, okay, like Don't bother with that. Like, you don't have to keep doing stuff that sucks just because you think it's gonna make you better. Like, you should find a mix of things that are, um, worth doing even though they're hard, um, and that you get something out of even though they're difficult. Because, uh, it's not always the— it's not always the things that people just really, really want to do. Like, it's not always like, you know, like, ice cream's great, but like, you're just gonna eat ice cream all the time. Like, your life's not really gonna get— Maybe it would, maybe it'd be really great, but I don't think it would necessarily make your life better. It's the things that are difficult but still rewarding. Those are the things that are, in my opinion, like worth doing and are meaningful.

Yeah, for sure. Why do you think as a society and for men especially, you know, we've gotten so soft? We're just all about the comfort and the convenience of modern life. And so many people are just not willing to push themselves and get out of their comfort zone and really see Well, I don't think people have to anymore, right?

It's not a daily requirement of life. It's not like you have to get up every day and be like, am I going to eat today? Am I going to have some warring tribe come in and try to kill me and all my family?

Sure.

We don't have to deal with that. And so, it's like anything, if you practice it a bunch, You get better at it. And I don't necessarily think it's a good thing. I think a lot of people, we have arguably the best time in history to be alive. You go back 100 years and the richest person in the world didn't have AC. So you're like, okay, even if you're doing really bad, you got stuff that other people never had.

Yeah.

Huge numbers of like, you know, from obesity, from like over— like just overall health issues, like mental illness, like all these things that are popping up that says like, okay, we have a lot of conveniences, but maybe like— I find I do really well when I have something to struggle against. Like having some sort of ongoing challenge not only literally makes you stronger, But like feels good. Effort feels good. And so when you don't have anything worthwhile that you're going after, you don't have anything meaningful that you're struggling for, um, like you just start looking like it kind of becomes like a pit of despair and you're like, what, what am I even doing out here? Yeah. Um, one of, one of the things that, uh, was really impactful for me was a book called, uh, A Million Miles in a Thousand Years by Donald Miller. And basically, he had a memoir and he was in the process of turning his memoir into a— this bestselling book into a movie. And in it, he basically had to go through and edit the book to make it more of a movie so it could be a better story and a narrative story.

Sure.

And in the process, he basically talks about He started to realize that all the things that make a good story are also the things that make a good life. And the point of writing a good story, like a story is a character who wants something and is willing to overcome an obstacle for it.

So following the hero's journey arc.

Yeah. And for me, when I was sitting in my parents' basement, I didn't really have anything I wanted. And if I did, I wasn't really willing to Overcome anything for it. I was just like, I just want it. But when I started looking at my life like a story and be like, is this an interesting story? Would you want to be a part of this? I was just kind of like, no, I wouldn't. And so then I started picking out things that would be— maybe they're kind of like starting points for what would make my life a good story. And, that's kind of how I kicked things off. And then, I kind of started just picking out races and different challenges that I wanted to do, but it all came back to, are you living a good story? Is there anything about this that if somebody was watching your story, your life story, would they walk out in the middle of the movie? And, for me, that's kind of where I was. Yeah.

That's a great analogy. I love the quote from Aristotle, man is a goal-seeking animal. His life only has meaning when he is pursuing a worthy or worthwhile goal or objective. And, I think that really speaks to what you're talking about here.

Yeah. I mean, I find if I'm bored, it's usually my fault. It's usually like I don't have anything specific that I'm building towards or I'm going after. And, Having those things is what— it's not the only thing, but I think my life is better when I'm pushing forward and I'm making sacrifices for things that are, at least I think, are going to be worthwhile. Sure.

Joel, what's the biggest life lesson that you've learned over the years by really pushing yourself to these limits or beyond the limits really?

Yeah. I don't think most people know what they're physically capable of. I mean, you could take that to life, but I think starting with physicality is huge because, again, if you can overcome something like physical discomfort, it's a lot easier. You're basically practicing to do all the Getting through mental discomfort, like all the things that like plague like modern society on a regular basis. Like, I think that one of the reasons people run into so many issues, because we're on our computer, we're on our headphones, and we're just like locked in and we're trying to maintain it all.

Yeah.

Right here in our head. And when you can experience that in your body, it makes like everything easier. And so for me, it's just like I never even thought I grew up playing sports, but I wasn't the craziest athlete or anything like that. I did track and field in college and I threw javelin because I didn't want to run. I was like, I don't want to run at all.

The irony here is amazing.

Yeah. And so, the idea of if you would've told me, oh, you should run ultramarathons, I probably would've actively not done it just to prove you wrong.

Yeah.

Um, and so the idea of like just continually pushing at the edges of whatever you're capable of right now, like you can end up in places where you're like, I, I had no clue, absolutely no clue that I would have been capable of doing that. But I just started on like the thing that is most immediate and is pressing and like is also difficult. Uh, and you can really surprise yourself on, you know, what you end up being capable of.

Yeah. I'd love to dig into some of the stories that you have of either your ultramarathon events, running a marathon on every continent. That's an incredible feat, just an amazing accomplishment. So I'm guessing it all just wasn't wine and roses and you've got some pretty incredible stories surrounding some of those. So let's hear one or two of your most memorable ones.

Well, it took me way longer than I thought it would. It's funny, you think about like, okay, I'm gonna run an ultramarathon on each continent. It's probably going to be hard to— the running is the hardest part, right? And, for me, it was kind of laughable because I did this announcement, I went out and did my first race, and I got hurt basically the first marathon in. After 26 miles, I rolled my ankle pretty severely.

Oh.

And then, it had 14 miles left. And so, I was like, I'm not, not, you know, I'm down in Patagonia, Chile. I'm not going home without doing this race. And so, I hobbled my way to the finish line. It was ugly and not really great, but I finished. And, I thought I was like, I'm going to ice my leg and I'll be fine. Spoiler alert, was not fine. Had to do 6 months of rehab to fix my leg.

Oh.

Right after that, I had a lawsuit with my business. And so, that delayed everything even further. And so then, um, yeah, so like a, you know, a year and a half after I'd finished, you know, race number 1, I'm like, I'm gonna do 7 ultras on 7 continents. I'd done like 1 race on 1 continent, hadn't run in a long time, and like, you know, raised like $20,000. But like, we're trying to raise like $200,000. I'm like, you're not even close. And so that was one of those ones where I was like, I, I came to myself like, like, you, you said you're gonna do this, you haven't done it. You can either finish this and do the thing you said you're gonna do, you can give up and you can like own up to it, um, or like, but you're not just gonna like continue like coasting and pretend like this didn't happen. Like, this needs a resolution.

Yeah.

So, um, I ended up doing a race in Chicago, uh, like a 50K just on my own without announcing it or anything, just because I was like, I need to prove to myself that Again, I need to build that trust up. I need to prove to myself that I can do this. And if I can't do it, then I'm just like, I'll probably give up and I'll just be like, I'm sorry guys, I can't do it. I'm just a terrible runner. But I did it. And then I was like, okay, I built up that level of trust. What are the races coming up? I had to pick a whole new set of races that I was gonna do, but what are the races coming up where I could knock this out? And then basically did the last 5 races in like 3 and a half months or 4 months.

Wow.

And so, that was the first thing. It was like I thought the running was going to be the hard part, but it was logistics. It was like, oh, I'm going to do this impossible challenge. And, it's like, okay, well, you're going to have an injury, you're going to have money issues, you're going to have business stuff, all this other stuff that came up that you have no idea about just thrown in your face.

Yeah.

So, that was one. The, you know, there's like different ones. Antarctica was this epic, you know, 100K ultramarathon that, uh, you know, like 40, like I said, 40 miles in at my like, uh, it was like the 3rd race in like 4 weeks or something like that that I was doing. And like, oh my gosh, my back was hurting and I was just like, I'm ready for it. But I'm also like 40 miles in, I'm like, I'm not, I don't get a second chance to come down here and do this. Like, I'm not going home. Like, Yeah. I'm gonna— I could pout, I can do whatever, but like, you're finishing the race. Like, it doesn't— you know, like, you talk to yourself, you could, you could whine, you could be a brat, you could do whatever you want, but like, it's not going to change the, the situation. You're finishing the race, so you might as well like get a better attitude out here. Um, uh, what else did I do? Uh, I did a, I did a Uh, an overnight race in Narrabeen, Australia. It was like the last— it was, it was New Year's Eve to New Year's Day. So it was like the last, um, like the last race of the new year and the first race of our last race of the old year and the first race of the new year.

Got it.

Um, so ran through the night, drank champagne at midnight and kept going. Um, that was fun. I had a race in Finland where I ran out of water.

Oh.

It was in the Arctic Circle. I was unsupported. I ran out of water. At one point, I got to a campfire and they had a cast iron pan. So, I filled it up with snow from the surrounding area and melted it down and then poured it in my water bottle. But, it was so cold outside that Uh, like a mile and a half later, it was all frozen again in my water bottle.

Oh my gosh.

And it was just like, I got lost twice. Like, I finished the race and my foot was swollen. Like, it was a whole bunch of stuff that went wrong. But like, the last mile on in, uh, you're coming down this like frozen river and there's a whole bunch of stuff going on. You're like, is that the city lights? What's going on? And it's like, I've been out there for like 12 hours or something stupid. Everything's gone wrong, but I'm just like gonna you know, I'm trying to finish the race. I'm just like, I'm just gonna be hap— like, just gonna do it. And like the last mile and a half or a couple miles, uh, like the Northern Lights just pop up and it's like the show. So it's like, it's one of those ones where you're like, I'm suffering this whole time. Like, it's just like, it's almost a comedy of errors of like how many things went wrong. But like, you push through, you push through, you push through, and then you get to the end and it's like, okay, like, definitely story-worthy.

Nice.

Like, there's definitely something About that. So, you know, there's, there's always, you know, stories. And I love, I think the thing that's intriguing about ultramarathons for me is it's not just about racing. It's, you know, there's a lot of like marathons you can run around a city and, you know, a bunch of crowds. With ultras, especially like trail and adventure ones, you're kind of out there on your own.

Mm-hmm.

So, Nobody really cares if you, you know, if you quit, that's cool. Like, you and the race director know, but nobody else really cares. Uh, but I love the, the adventures, the stories, and like just being out in nature and like seeing parts of the world that like you won't— like you might see on a 5-day hike, but like unless you're running it or you're, you know, spending a week out there, you're not gonna like accidentally get to some of these spots.

Like Sure.

You have to try to get to them. And that's what I love is like you end up seeing these things that your own 2 feet took you to and you got there and there's no faking it. There's no, like, you just, you get to have those memories and you kind of get to explore the world in a pretty cool way that most people don't get to.

Yeah, totally. Tell me about that love of nature. What instilled that and where did that come from?

That's a good question. I grew up outside Chicago, so like my grandma had a farm and we'd go out to there. We'd go up to the, uh, Upper Peninsula of Michigan every once in a while and you'd see like a million stars.

Oh yeah.

Uh, and I was like, these are cool. Um, but I don't know, man, like it's— there's something, there's something grounding about getting out there. It's also like you feel small and like in a good way where, uh, nothing— it seems like, like you're kind of insignificant, but also like, if you're insignificant, why not just do cool stuff? Because why not? You know, if nothing matters, nothing— like, go for it. Um, and then, yeah, I just love— I don't know, like, we— you talked about being— the world being soft and like Okay, yeah, in my air-conditioned apartment, things seem really nice, but it's something different when you— climbing a mountain is so strange. You're just like, hey, there's that tall thing. I'm going to go up to the top and then I'm coming back down. But when you get up there and you realize you did that and you can kind of see what you accomplished, there's something just like— I think it's just intrinsic about that that is really, really satisfying. Some of these races, you go up and there's one race in Switzerland and you climb up these 2 massive mountains. They measure in kilometers, so I don't even know how high I am. All I know is that there's like a 1,000-foot drop-off on either side and all these different things. And, I'm in the middle of a race and you get up to these top peaks and your hands are frozen, you can't really feel. It gets raining. It was a whole bunch of bad stuff happening.

Wow.

But you just get to the top and you're like, okay, I know I'm in the race, but I'm just gonna take a minute and just like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna enjoy the view because—

Yeah.

It was a lot of work to get up here. So I think it's, you know, I think it's just a combination of just, uh, that primal instinct of like, this feels good, this feels natural, this feels like uncomfortable but in a good way. Um, and then also just like The self-sufficiency that like once you get out there, nobody's coming for you. Like get yourself home. Like I guess they had helicopters at the Switzerland one that like they'd come pick you up, but like—

Just in case.

Yeah. But like, I'm not, you know, like I guess I'm prideful enough. I'm just like, I'm gonna get myself home. So I just love that. I love putting that onus on you and then like, you know, showing up for yourself and being able to do that.

Yeah, no, I definitely agree. For sure. There's a lot of people that don't see it that way though. So many people who they see, they have this us versus nature mentality, like nature, we have to conquer it and tame it and make it less wild, if you will. And then others like myself, and I think like you as well, that the thing we love about nature and the wilderness is that wild because we can rediscover kind of who we are, our more primitive and base nature, and we can push ourselves. Why do you think that some people, they kind of have that different viewpoint on it?

I think this binary thing of like, again, the interesting thing about like, you know, if you're doing this 5-day hike, like there's no like spectrum. Like I guess you could have like a really good time out there, you could have a really bad time, but like also if you like do a bunch of things wrong, you're dead.

Yes.

And so like, again, this is like couching goals, right? Like, people want to like couch goals and they're like, oh, well, you know, I would go to nature, but like only if I'm glamping or, you know, something like that. And it's like, cool, glamping's fun. Like, that's great. But like, you're still, you're still couching like what it means to like be out there and like survive. And so, uh, I think there's something really interesting about just like being in the elements and like, like it's— there's a lot of binary outcomes. Like, it's not like, you know, like— You either get, you know, like in the animal world or whatever, like animals either get eaten or they don't get eaten, you know, like, or they escape and they keep going. And there's not like a lot of this like, hey, you know, you know, that animal got eaten, but you know, it tried really hard to get away. Like, we're gonna give it points. Like, it doesn't— like, like if you tried really hard, it's a participation trophy. Yeah, there's, there's none of that. And so what, what's nice about that, like what's, what's bad about it is that like It's it's an ideal, and you get judged off of it, right? Like it's like hey, you know if you do that and you survive, like and you're like oh I didn't finish the hike or I didn't finish the race, and it's like okay well that's like a DNF. But what's good about that is that like it actually helps calibrate you to do better things. And so I'm I'm a person I really like feedback even if it's critical. Like I will I will ask people for like very like you're not gonna hurt my feelings. Be super critical. Let me know what to fix and I'll fix it. I think when people are not as— like, if people take that more personally than they do— when people take it more personally, that makes things harder for them because then they're like, that's reflective on me as a person. And for me, it's much more like, no, I shouldn't have done that. I shouldn't have done that. Let me fix this. It's like a way I behave, not who I am.

Yeah.

And so, I think with, maybe this is getting too philosophical, but when it comes to nature, people don't like the idea of having this binary outcome because it seems super harsh or it seems super maybe offensive to their person. And, it's really just like, well, maybe you just need to learn some survival skills. Maybe you need to learn what to do out there next time. Maybe you'll learn to bring more water. Um, and instead of using it as a learning opportunity, they feel judged a lot. So, yeah, uh, I think maybe that's it. But, you know, I think also, like, people just don't know sometimes. Sometimes they need introductory baby experiences that seem really challenging for them, um, to find out, and they find out that's something they really like.

Sure.

So, uh, I, you know, there's just not a lot of exposure, uh, especially if you're from, like, someplace like the Midwest. You just grew up in the suburbs and around buildings all the time. Like, you don't get a chance to see, you know, what's out there.

Yeah, that's a great point. And we've all got to start somewhere because everybody— everyone is starting in a different place based on how they were raised or where they grew up from. One of the things that, that you touched on there as far as feedback and how people react to that, there's a book called Mindset, and it's about the difference between a fixed versus a growth mindset. Really good book. And there's so many people, and I've been going through this myself, as far as just being stuck in this fixed mindset of this is how everything is, it's black and white, and I can't change or take feedback because if I'm getting feedback on something and it's critical or negative, then that's a reflection of me, as opposed to, like you were mentioning, using that as constructive criticism to learn and grow and improve. And that's not who I am, it's just an element of something that I'm doing or whatever, and trying to take that and improving on it, which would be a more growth mindset that can help for lifelong growth and improvement.

Yeah, I think phrasing it like that, it's not anything about who you are, it's just like you did one thing and maybe that's not the correct thing. So, if you're out in the wilderness and you drank from the wrong water source, you're going to get sick and you're going to learn not to do that again, boil your water. Sometimes there's correct things to do and there's incorrect things to do. So, um, I find that's, that's super helpful, just removing the things that you did from like your identity. It's like a separate issue. And when you could do that, you can actually take lessons and learn them versus like, oh my gosh, is the attack on who I am and everything that I've, you know, I stand for as a, you know, a human being on this earth, you know, like. That's that. I think I would have a hard time if I thought criticism meant that too. So, um, sure.

I think that may be harder for us as men as well at times, just because we get so tied up into our accomplishments and things that we do, and it kind of defines us to an extent, or we let it define us.

Yeah, I mean, it can. Um, it depends on what the goal is. Like, it's like, do you want to look really good, or do you want to, you know, like, if, if we're caught up in like you know, making sure that we look in a certain way or versus like acting the best way possible or like be the most helpful or, you know, whatever the goal is. Like if you define the goal as like looking really cool, like, and you do something that makes you look stupid, yeah, like then it is gonna like, you know, affect your, you know, your outlook. But if you're like, hey, this is—

Yep.

You know, I do, I do this with lifting a lot of times. Like, you know, I'm an athlete, I've worked out a bunch, but like when it comes like Olympic lifts, like I'm not the best Olympic lifter at all. And so, I'll always have coaches come around and they'll tweak me or tell me what to do. And, I'm like, listen, I have some internet fitness businesses and I do all this other stuff. I should know these things, but it's just like, you can't be good at everything. You can't be the best guy at all the things.

Sure.

So, when it comes down to that stuff, I'm just like, you know what? I'm okay not being the greatest Olympic lifter in the world. When I do it, I'm doing it more for form and function, but I'm probably going to look dumb and I'm I'm okay looking dumb because I'm going to get less dumb and I'm going to get stronger over it. And, that's the preferred outcome. I'd rather get stronger than look cool all the time.

Yeah. That definitely takes a little bit of letting go of the ego, but I think that's really the only time we learn is when we do, which kind of sucks at times.

It's been fun because, I mean, another example. So, I learned maybe a little less extreme. I learned to wake surf this summer.

Yeah.

Never done any board sports or water sports. And so I'm just getting like, you know, I'm just wake surfing and wakeboarding. And so I just like was biting it over and over and over this summer. And I'm like 30, I'm like my 30s. And so I'm like, okay, I'm supposed to know these things, or I'm supposed to— like, I think of myself as an athlete and I'm supposed to have these things figured out. And I'm just behind the boat just crashing over and over and over again. But I'm like, you sit down and if I get super defensive and I'm like, no, I got this, like it doesn't help me get any better. But they would come back and they'd be like, well, it looks like you're too far forward on the board. That's why you flipped over. Or like, you know, you're, you're, you're not balancing the correct way. And I was like, oh, okay. And it's like, it's so much more helpful just to like, instead of fighting it, to just like, okay, receive the feedback. Nobody's, you know, if there were jerks, I'd probably not be, you know, a big fan of it. But like, they're all trying to help me get better. So yeah, you know, I think understanding the intent of the criticism as well. Is really, really helpful.

Yeah, that's a great point. Jewel, what's an adventurous experience that you never want to repeat?

Like outdoors, or can it be anything?

Yeah, either one. Just one that you've gone through, and maybe that was one of your impossible challenges, or you know, one of the ultra marathons, or anything there.

I got I got stuck in Doha, Qatar, for. 48 hours without a passport.

Oh.

And, yeah, yeah.

Let's hear this story.

Would not recommend. No, it's just I was in the middle of the races and I was flying from Hong Kong to South Africa and it was a layover in Doha. And, I got on my flight to go to South Africa. I'd been there before. And, one of South Africa's rules, you have to have 2 back-to-back pages on your passport so they could do like big visas. If you're from like, you know, if you've traveled internationally, sometimes visa will take up an entire page of your passport. And so they say just to be safe, like you should have 2 back to back. Um, I've been to South Africa. They've got these little stamps and they don't need 2 full pages. And in the past they've never done that. Um, but the airline is responsible for taking you back to like your host country if you get kicked out of the original country. And so The airline was like, you don't have 2 pages back to back. I'm like, I've got more than— I've got a bunch of empty pages. I just don't have anything back to back. And they're like, no, no. And so they basically, you know, if you know anything about Doha, they— all their flights go out between like 10 PM and like 6 AM, like all the connecting things. And so my flight was like at 1 AM in the morning. They wouldn't let me on. They made me wait in the airport until 8 AM until I could call like the US consulate and be like, or the embassy and say like, hey, can I come in and get my passport? And it just ended up being this like sleepless, like 48-hour thing of me running around Doha getting, getting a new temporary, like it looks like a fake passport. Oh my God. It's like 3 pages long. But, I had to find a printer, get new photos taken, all this different stuff. And, you're just like, I never want to come back here again. I'm good, I'm good, I'm good. So, I mean, I never want to do that again. I did an ultramarathon in Thailand 2 weeks after I did this Antarctica race and it was half the distance. And so in my mind, I'm like, I'm gonna kill this thing. I, I just did 100K. This is a 50K. This is easy. It's gonna be one of the shorter races. And it was just— it was not. Uh, it was like jungle, so it was just hot and like humid and sweating, and it was all up-downs and out-and-backs. And so—

Oh wow.

It was just like the most demoralizing course because you're not really going anywhere. You're just like You're you're it's like a pedal shape, so you're like going out and back and then out and back, and you're just like seeing the same people over and over. You're going up and down. You're not like making progress through anything, and I was just like that. It was not the farthest race, but I've never wanted to quit anything more than I wanted to quit that race. Uh uh, and again, it was just like you're in Thailand. You're not going home until you. Finish this thing. So, deal with it.

At least there was some good food afterwards, I'm sure.

Yeah, it was good.

There's that. Nice. Joel, so we're really big on conservation and improving our environment and soil and water and all of that stuff as I know you are as well. Where do you see the biggest need is today when it comes to those things?

On conservation?

Yeah, conservation and just all-around natural health when it comes to our natural environment.

Yeah, so I don't know if I'm the best person about this. Like, I'm not super involved in conservation other than like I love like national parks and spending time out in nature. But I think the biggest thing is just like getting people exposure, like the, you know, finding small or big ways to like introduce them into nature and figuring out like what's out there. I remember the first time I did a road trip out west and getting to drive through like Yellowstone and Glacier National and like all this other stuff. Like once you see that stuff, you're like, oh yeah, it's not just like, oh, we're taking down rainforest, you know, like stuff like that. It's, it's, it's much more visceral. You're like, oh my God, like don't mess with Glacier. It's amazing. Like it's, it's awesome.

Yeah.

And so I think exposure to this stuff is just super important. Then also doing it in ways that people have good experiences, you know, talked about this with the limits of creating challenging experiences for people that are memorable. You don't want them to be super easy, but also safe for them. So, they're not backcountry hiking the first time after never being in it.

Sure.

So, I find in some ways trail races are really good. A lot of times they're crude. You get to see you know, different parts of, you know, a forest or, you know, some sort of, uh, nature feature that you've never been to, uh, but there's people around, there's like bailout points if things get too tough, uh, but you get to experience that on a regular basis. Um, I think those are really useful. And then there's also, you know, with trail racing, um, you know, cleanup and like preservation of trails is a big thing. And so I think anytime someone has a chance to go do something in nature and share about it, I think it's huge. I think getting people out into nature is massive. And just like, it feels good to be surrounded by trees or to be at the top of a mountain lake or something like that. You're like, I get to do this? This is free? Like, just out here waiting for us? That's cool.

Yeah.

The best marketing is a good product and I think nature is a pretty good product. So, just get more people's eyes on it.

That's a great point. Well, and that leads me into my next question as far as marketing and products. What gear or products or equipment do you take with you when you are doing an adventure race or any of these other excursions that you have been a part of?

Yeah. So, a lot of it's climate-dependent on where I'm at. So, what I wore in Antarctica is very different than what I wore in Thailand. Um, but it was funny because I had— for Antarctica, I just went to like a gear shop. I was like, listen, I'm going to Antarctica, don't want to die. And we just did like this whole thing where they're like bringing a bunch of stuff out. So, um, you know, I have like actual kits, uh, for cold weather racing. Um, the, the one thing that really screwed me up, I had a, uh, at a CamelBak. So 2 other things, uh, so there's 2 types of races usually. There's a, there's a loop race and there's end-to-end. So end-to-end, you're carrying everything with you just like you had done a hike. Um, loop races, you can do stash bags or, you know, you can do other things. And so, um, for Antarctica, the nice part was it was like a 10K loop 10 times. So—

Oh, okay.

I could bring stuff, but I didn't have to carry so much gear with me. Um, with some of the other end-to-end races, the Finland one, for example, I had a backpack. I had a mini— it wasn't a rucksack, but it was a slimmed-down kind of little rucksack that I was actually running with with a bladder in it. But, the bladder exploded because of the temperature 5 minutes before race time. So, I ended up having to grab some water bottles and that's why I ran out of water and all this other stuff. And so, I would say it's pretty climate dependent on what I end up bringing, but usually I've got a CamelBak and I try to keep relatively lightweight.

Sure.

And then, kind of the go-tos are the Shot Blocks, like the gummies. that I keep with me on a regular basis instead of goos or anything like that. And then, typically, as much water as I can carry that's reasonable and then electrolytes and a few other things.

Got it, yeah. What brands do you just love that you feel like just are doing an amazing job with the equipment and clothing and gear and whether that's supplements or any of that?

Yeah. So, I have a lot of Patagonia. And, I have a lot of especially my cold weather gears, a lot of Patagonia. I have running shoes typically On Clouds if you're familiar with them.

Not familiar with those.

Running Swiss company. They're starting to get pretty big. I bumped into them the first time I did a race in Switzerland actually and then I was like, okay, Switzerland company doing footwear. But now they're like, they're becoming very popular. What I do a lot of merino wool like base layer stuff, especially in cold weather scenarios. Anything else? I use Goruck bags quite a bit. If you're familiar with Goruck, sometimes it's a little heavy duty for like races, but like the Finland race I did was a slimmed down Goruck bag that ended up working really well and it was a little bit more for a cold weather race. It was much more substantial and useful for me than other ones.

Probably had a little more insulation to keep stuff warm and protected a little more.

Yeah. And just more space in general. Typically, if I was running, a couple weeks later I was running the Thailand race and you just don't, you're going to feel you're sweating through more. You're going to feel the weight more in warmer climates like that versus cold weather. So, sure. Yeah, I think, you know, I could— I need to lay out my— I'm like looking over there like I can, you know, maybe go check out my gear list. But it really depends on where I'm at and what I'm doing specifically. But usually, like, I think Patagonia is the broad majority of like my mid layers. And then I've got like a shell from Arc'teryx and— something else. So, um, got it. Yeah, a few different things.

Yeah, cool. Joel, is there a book or books that have had a big impact on your life over the years?

Uh, A Million Miles in a Thousand Years is a really good read. Um, just really good way to kind of examine your life and story and like helps you make decisions. Like if you're a character, if you're an author writing your life story, like what, and you're stuck on it, uh, like what should you do next? Like what would be the good thing that an author would write in that scenario? What would you want the character to do? And that's a really good decision heuristic. Cool. That's probably my go-to book recommendation. There's a book— what is it?

Is it over here?

It's Kiss or Kiss or Kill by Mark Twight. Mark Twight is like this climber. He's a— if you're ever in Salt Lake, you should chase him down and like try to do a podcast with him. He's an awesome guy. He started a gym called Gym Jones and basically like world-renowned climber, but then, you know, started a gym and the idea was kind of like exposing mentality through physical fitness. And he's just got a bunch of essays on like physicality that like, if you wanna read 'em, you get pumped up and you're like, all right, now I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go fight a bear or something like that. They're real fun.

Cool. Is there a podcast that you listen to regularly?

I try to pick out like ones that like, I like, you know, like not everybody's already listening to or paying attention to.

Sure.

Honestly, a lot of the podcasts that I listen to are kind of like background entertainment. So I have like a couple NBA podcasts that will be on. Um, I really like, uh, Lex Fridman lately and, uh, Michael Malice, if you're familiar with those guys.

I'm not.

Um, Lex is on Joe Rogan's quite a bit. He's, uh, he's pretty solid. And Michael is just an entertaining He's got a lot of different interesting viewpoints.

Cool. We'll check him out. Joel, what is one closing piece of advice you would leave for our audience?

If you haven't done something super challenging this year physically, line something up on your schedule by the end of the year. Just put something on the calendar, go do it. It doesn't have to be crazy. When the pandemic when the pandemic was happening, you know, like last year in the middle of it, um, I wasn't able to do races or anything, but I just got a couple friends and we did this all-night race, uh, called the Longest Night on the Longest Day of the Year. We just ran around a track as many times as we could. And, you know, it's not in nature, it's not really that exciting, you're not really going anywhere, but you're just like, okay, I'm gonna test myself and like—

Something to do.

Yeah, see, see what you're made of again. Um, and I think that's super useful, especially if you're talking about like rewilding people and like getting back out in nature, like getting back in touch with physicality, getting back in touch with pushing yourself and getting uncomfortable. Sign up for something that's gonna make you uncomfortable by the end of the year. There's like 3 and a half months left or whatever. And that's not a lot of time. And yep, you know, sign up, go do it. And you might surprise yourself.

Solid advice. Joel, thanks so much for being here today. Really enjoyed our conversation. Where can our audience learn more about you online?

Yeah, the easiest spot is impossiblehq.com. That's kind of like the hub for everything. We have a bunch of sites off of that. We have a fitness site at Impossible Fitness and we have a bunch of performance gear and supplements that are at impossible.co. But, if you go to impossiblehq.com, you're going to find everything else. So, That's probably the easiest place to get started with us.

Sounds good. I'll link all of those in the show notes at rewildgear.com/podcast. So, Jule, thanks so much for your time today. Really appreciate it. And we will talk to you soon. And for everyone else out there, stay wild.

Thanks for listening to the Rewild Gear Podcast. You can check out the show notes for today's episode at rewildgearpodcast.com. If you're ready to spend more time in the wild, our line of high-quality minimalistic outdoor gear can help you do just that. Check us out at rewildgear.com.