Ep 3: Product Updates & Late Season Archery Hunting

Welcome to the Rewild Gear Podcast. Modern life, society, and responsibilities have domesticated us, but now it's time to rediscover your adventurous side. Whether that's camping, hiking, hunting, fishing, or just spending time in the great outdoors, this is the podcast for you. Join us as we get back to the wilderness and rewild. All right, we're, we're back at the Rewild Gear Podcast. What number is this? Is this 3, 4, 5?

4?

I don't know, something like that. I'm not sure, considering, considering we are— we're here and we're, we're ready to rock and roll. All right, Dave, so, uh, welcome back.

It's good to be back, man.

Hey, we're, we're back at the Rewild Cabin.

Ah, it's always good to be here. Always.

We got a little snow this morning too.

We did, we did, man. And I've never I've never actually been here when it snowed. It's gorgeous.

Yeah, it's, it's fantastic.

I mean, it looks like something out of a winter wonderland.

Josh and I have been here, uh, when there's been quite a bit of snow, um, probably 4 or 6 inches or something like that, and did a big hike around. It was fantastic. Yeah, nothing like hiking around.

Oh my God, I know, I know. It's good, uh, good blood trails too that way.

Yeah, exactly.

Hopefully.

So, so we're up here to do a little bit of hunting, like the Very, very late season hunt. This is the last weekend for bow season, um, and so far we haven't seen anything yet.

No, it's been quiet.

I mean, I've never actually hunted this late in the year.

I haven't either. I haven't either. And I mean, we kind of put this together last minute really, but, um, yeah, I don't think either one of us really knew what to expect. I mean, it just— it's so— the woods are just so different this time of year.

Yeah, I mean, we're way past the rut. Yeah, deer, they're just, you know, they're bedding down a lot more and just— yeah, so sticking to your food. They're not running around like they are during, during early season.

It's just such a different— it's just such a different time. And I mean, I don't think really either of us had much expectation of what to see. Just always good to get out.

Well, my expectation this morning is to drink a lot of coffee.

Which we are currently doing and enjoying thoroughly.

Yes, after some phenomenal eggs and sausage for breakfast.

Oh my gosh.

So good.

That sausage.

So that sausage was, uh, left over from, uh, A hunt that I did in Texas, uh, just over a year ago. And that was—

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

That was an axis deer, which in my opinion is the best venison.

It was so good.

So good.

I mean, even the way they seasoned it, it was delicious.

A little spicy.

Make some more.

Yeah, for sure.

Where in Texas?

Uh, what was the name of that? It was this little, little town. Actually, it wasn't even a town, it was a ranch. It was about an hour outside of Austin.

Oh cool, okay.

Yeah, because I flew into Austin for it. It was a lot of fun.

A ton of places out there.

Yeah, Texas Hill Country, a lot, a lot of great hunting out there. It was like 2,000 acres we were on.

That's awesome.

Yeah, so it was, it was nice. I got a sika and an axis, and they both are delicious.

How, uh, how far out did you take those?

Like, your shot distance-wise? Yeah, um, the axis was about 105 yards. The sika was 75. Or so.

Just such an interesting terrain out there. It's just so different from like hunting this area.

Yeah, back east is definitely—

Yeah, it just, it's so different.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. All right, well, we're not here to talk about hunting today. Ah, I mean, too easy.

It's too easy too, man.

We could for sure, but, uh, you know, I think we want to talk a little bit about, a little bit about Rewild and where we're going and, yeah, you know, launching A direct-to-consumer, uh, outdoor—

It's getting exciting, man.

Yeah, you know, we're moving along. The primary— the first product, you know, and the one I think we're all most excited about is the knife, the, uh, the Gasper 4.

The Gasper 4, as we're calling it.

It's official. Let's talk— let's talk a little bit about kind of the, the knife creation process and how we've iterated on that.

And, uh, yeah, the fun and obsessing project it's been.

Well, because The knife creation, that's something— that's kind of how this whole project got started because we were sitting around a campfire multiple times comparing knives and what we liked and didn't like about them.

Yeah, I mean, we've done that for forever, you know, for years.

Like, I'm trying to think when we first kind of talked about this.

I, I don't know, it's been a long time.

I specifically remember, I think it was up at Red River Gorge, me and Adam. Okay, I don't even think you were there.

I don't— probably not.

This would have been somewhere around 2008, 2009.

Wow, I would have been a senior or just finishing. Yeah. Yes, in high school. Yeah, a long time ago.

Maybe you were there, I don't know. This, uh, yeah, but sitting around a campfire and just talking about knives, like, huh, I like this knife, I would do this differently, right? Right. Um, and then I remember like Josh and I sit on vacation one time, we were in Florida, we were talking about diving knives.

Oh yeah.

And how we would create our Create our own.

Yeah, what you'd use, the kind of steel you'd use.

Yeah, exactly. And then every time we're at deer camp, we're always sitting around the fire drinking Jäger and drinking and comparing knives and basically in our, in our own, in our heads creating our own knife. Yeah, so that's kind of where the concept came from, like, hey, what if we, what if we did, what if we made our own? And you know, it's kind of evolved from there into a much bigger project, a much bigger— but the knife is still kind of like the signature flagship.

Yeah, the flag—

the flagship for ReWild product that we're the most excited about and, uh, that we plan to launch with.

So yeah, it's been cool. I mean, just the whole process of, of taking this idea, um, and slowly seeing it like come to life. Yeah, I mean, it's been super cool just, you know, making these tweaks here and there and doing the 3D prints.

And, you know, I think all of us coming into this kind of had an idea about like a knife that we wanted to start from, kind of that was our signature knife or the one that we carried the most or really liked. What would you say was the place where you were coming from?

Yeah, that's a good question. When I, when I think about a knife, it's something that I want to be able to use and enjoy using. Um, so whether you want to say it's user-friendly, you know, um, that means different things to different people. Yeah, exactly, exactly. So Um, kind of my approach with it was, you know, I had kind of these dimensions in my head of, you know, how the length of the blade, the length of the handle, um, and, and really just honing in on that. Um, and, and here's the thing too that's been interesting is something that I thought I would like.

Yeah.

Once we actually put it on paper or, you know, started designing it, it's like, oh, actually I don't think I like it.

Give me an example of that.

Um, let me think, what's a good example? So initially I thought I would like the handle a little bit different.

Ah, okay.

Yeah, yeah.

As far as the shape or the contours or what?

Both.

Both.

I, I thought I would like it a little more rounded than I actually do. Um, and even just the contour, I thought I would like it less contoured.

Um, so we've got some of our 3D Yeah, printout models here that we can look at. So give me an example of what you're talking about.

So for instance, how this is pretty contoured to your hand, it's got, you know, a really nice grip. Um, and it has a little bit of roundedness to it, but not a ton. So it's preventing hot spots.

Yeah.

Um, I, I really thought just from other knives that I've used and own, and, um, I thought I would like a much rounder handle. Um, but once I actually put my hand on this and we've kind of tweaked it and honed it in. Yeah, it's, it's really nice. I mean, it feels really good. Um, so I would say that's one. Um, the blade profile has— I mean, I, I love it. Yeah, I think it looks awesome. Um, you know, even just the, the width of it, it's got enough belly, so it's, you know, so it's gonna be a slicer as well. Yeah, exactly. Or if you want to— yeah, I mean, it's, it's fantastic.

Um, yeah, because we, because we should say that like this is a general all-around camping knife that's good for so many different things. Yeah, it's just basically we're trying to create a knife that is like a cross trainer. Yeah, yeah, if you will, or something that can serve double duty for a lot of different things. I mean, it's not specifically a hunting or a skinning knife. It's not specifically like a bushcraft or— right, uh, or like a survival knife. It's a general all-around—

All tactical knife.

Yeah, it's not— I mean, it's just a, you know, drop point blade. Um, pretty much a flat grind, somewhat of a contoured handle. Um, yeah, so it's—

I, I think what's been cool too is, um, everyone's perspective on it and just like shooting it back and forth of like, what if we did this? You know, what about, what about that? Just because I think each of us has a little bit different approach.

Yeah, for sure.

Different perspectives.

Adam likes them a little more outlandish. Might not be the most usable at times, but That boy loves his knives. Josh gets super nerdy about the steel.

Yeah, yeah.

He finds these obscure ones and like, what do you think about— what was that new one that he mentioned? Oh my gosh, dude, I'd never even heard of this one.

Heard of it? I'm like, dude, I don't even know where it was out of.

I'm like, this is gonna cost like $100 just for like—

yeah, for like half the blade.

I don't, I don't think we can use that one, dude.

Yeah, no, yeah, no.

But I think from the beginning we were all pretty much set on S35VN because it is a super steel and it, it really marries all the different components as far as corrosion resistance, the hardness, um, you know, the toughness of the steel and everything, and ease of sharpenability and how long it'll stay sharp and all of that. Um, yeah, so from the beginning, that's the—

That was— I feel like that was a pretty easy—

I mean, we went back and forth on some other ones. Like, I started looking at a little— what is it? Uh, LCN.

Oh yeah, yeah.

No, actually, I have a Spyderco with this. Um, LC200N, which is very corrosion resistant, but it's a lot harder to sharpen. Yeah.

Yeah.

Because I've got— I have a Spyderco Salt 5 that I love as far as just a folder carry knife.

And that's like fantastic since, I mean, you live close to water. Yeah.

Since I'm near the water and stuff.

It's—

yeah, it's great for that. Right. I don't love the yellow handle necessarily. I'd prefer a more neutral color because it kind of stands out too much. But yeah, yeah. But as far as like the steel, I like it. But for this, for, for a fixed blade, general outdoor Camping, backpacking, hunting knife. Yeah, using the S35VN. Yeah, it made the most sense. You know, it's going to be more expensive. That's okay, because we're all about quality.

Yeah, exactly.

Quality over quantity. I mean, you'd rather have a knife that's going to last a lot longer and not just be a throwaway. For sure. You know, when, when we look at the different knives that— like my original question, as far as what knife was kind of the inspiration, like I've always been a big fan of like the ESEE 3 and 4.

Yes.

Yeah.

Well, I love, love that knife. And it's a great all-around do-all camping survival outdoor knife can be used for so many different things. I've never liked the steel, you know, 1095. Yeah, you can sharpen it easily, but it doesn't retain its edges long. It's really hard. You can beat it to hell and back.

I mean, ESEE puts a great coating on it.

They do. But I hate the coating because you can't strike a fire, right? A ferro rod with it. And so that's, you know, kind of a pain. Also, like their handles, you know, they're just— I mean, Micarta is fine. I like that. Or I don't dislike it, I should say. But as far as like the shape of the handle, like the lack of contour on the Those. It's just kind of flat and—

yeah.

And I feel like the blade is a little too tall. So I would say I kind of started from looking at that and how would I improve it?

Yeah.

And then from there, and as I started like researching other knives that I liked even more and finding like the Benchmade Saddle Mountain Skinner, which I really like. So then we kind of tweaked and added some elements that as far as some of the elements of it.

Yeah.

Yeah. So we've kind of pick, pick and chosen different elements from a ton of different knives that we liked and got rid of the aspects that we didn't, um, just to make our own, you know, something that works for us.

I mean, this is a big scratch our own itch.

Very much so.

I mean, just from the design standpoint, but then, I mean, it's been a great excuse to buy a bunch of new knives and try them out.

So tax write-off for R&D.

It's been, it's been a win-win all around.

Now obviously Adam and Josh aren't here Uh, with us, but what knife do you think that kind of was their perspective on starting from?

That is a hard, uh, prediction.

Yeah.

Um, I don't know. I mean, Adam has so many knives and they're all very different. They're all very different.

Like, mine are all kind of follow the same style. It's really clean aesthetic, drop point blade, usually like a flat grind. Yeah, maybe a convex grind. Um, I, you know, I just like them clean and nice and easy to use. And like, I used to like serrations, but I've gotten away from that.

I know, I haven't.

It's good for some use cases, but—

Yeah, I have a few knives, but over the years I've— I'm similar. I've kind of drifted away from it.

It's just harder to sharpen them.

Yes. Yeah, yeah. Uh, Josh, hmm, uh, something technical with the steel, I would say.

As long as it's an expensive steel, he likes it.

Yeah. I, I don't know. That's a, that's a hard— yeah, that's a hard go on that one.

Yeah, I know Adam's always been a fan of like your more outlandish knives. A lot of like the ones—

He likes some of the tactical stuff.

Yeah, some like, uh, the TOPS knives or Battle Horse knives, some of those. Yeah, like some of those that are a little bit more like tactical survival-esque, I guess.

Yeah, I think it's a safe assumption.

Yeah, Josh is kind of all over the place with his, I think.

Yeah, I mean, and I think that's what's been fun though, is just taking everybody's input on it. I mean, because I I, I really like traditional knives. Like, I like the old school.

You've always been big into the more of the bushcraft.

Yes, yes. Um, you know, like the Kephart design. I mean, I've always been a fan of that. Um, you know, and even the, um, ah, forget his name, the other, uh, the other blade profile I like a lot. Um, George Washington Sears. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nesmuk.

Yep, yep. So I've always liked kind of the older style. Um, So it's just been cool getting to kind of marry the new with the old with this. And, um, yeah, just getting, getting everyone's input on it.

It's been fun. Yeah, the interesting thing is the sizing of it. So trying to find the correct one, because, you know, you think more like a survival or— right, um, bushcraft knife. A lot of times those are a much larger knife, but that's not very good, especially if someone wants to everyday carry it, or if you're doing fine work, especially like if you're using it as a for hunting or like a skinning knife, um, that doesn't work so well. And so, but then also if you want it to be really good for that, you need a much smaller one. And so then that's not as good for some of the other—

It's a fine balance.

Yeah. And I think we've done a pretty good job of that. Uh, like the—

I'm excited to use it.

Just over the 4-inch blade. And yeah, I mean, the total length is under 9 inches for every, um, from, from the top to the bottom of the knife. Yeah.

I, I think one of the hard things about it has been like the elusive idea of the perfect knife, and we've kind of like highlighted that. Yes, because it doesn't exist.

There is no such thing.

And I think just recognizing too, like, you know, some people are gonna love this knife, and some people, maybe they have humongous hands that need like a 6-inch handle, or, you know what I mean?

So it's just, it's been If you need something that big, then it's not going to be very good for— right, right, those smaller tasks. That was the thing.

So I think just kind of recognizing, like, you know, keeping the elusive idea in mind yet not, uh, not dying to that. Um, but I mean, which is— which has been, you know, cool with the process of it. Um, yeah, it's been— it's been a lot of fun.

Gotcha. What's your current favorite knife right now outside of our own?

Current Outside? I— oh man, it's on the spot. It's on the spot. Um, so okay, I'll, I'll put it this way. I would say the knife I use the most currently is— I really like my SEPR4.

Okay.

Patrick Rollins, I thought, did a nice, nice take of, um, Kephart's design.

Yeah. Um, do you like the handle on that?

So that, that's been That's been a, uh, a point that a lot of people do not like with it.

I feel like I get hot spots.

Yeah, so it's— there are some improvements to it that I would do. It's— I would make it just a smidge thicker.

Okay.

Um, and they did a handle thicker, or the blade? The, the handle. Yes, yes, just so you have a little bit more. Um, I think, I think it reduced hot spots a little bit. Yeah, so they did that handle style Um, they have another knife, it's the JG5, which is more like a Nesmuk style knife, and they have a similar handle. Um, I don't have that one, but I've heard that the handle is a little bit thicker, okay, and so it has reduced hot spots.

Got it.

Um, so, so yeah, I mean, like, like we've been talking about, there are some things that I would improve, you know, personal preference, but I would say that's probably the one I use currently.

Got it.

Okay, how about you?

Yeah, that's a good question. I've gone back and forth so much. Like, I've always loved the ESEE 3 and the ESEE 4. I feel like they're just—

they're—

yeah, they're great. They're easy. I mean, they're fantastic knives, but I don't love the steel, although they're coming out with the S35VN models now, which I actually got.

They've been doing cool stuff with that.

I bought my oldest son one for Christmas and then proceeded to slice the hell out of myself with it when he jerked it out of my hand accidentally.

Skinned any squirrels with it yet?

Not yet. But yeah, but I mean, but it's nice, but I don't like the G10 handles and the way it's contoured. So I mean, there's There's definitely big improvements I think that could be made there. You know, I really— I love the Benchmade Saddle Mountain Skinner. The grind on it, I don't like. I don't love. I prefer more of just a standard flat grind, or possibly even a convex, but just personal preference. Right. But it feels great. I don't— I don't like the Richlite handle on it.

It's pretty smooth.

Yeah, it's a little too smooth. Yeah. As far as like a hunting knife, I'm a Big fan of the Argali Serac, which is just a fan—

Dude, that thing's sick.

The White River Hunter is great too.

It's got a good feel to it.

Yeah, it's nice and contoured.

Yeah.

But it's flared a little bit too much, I think. And I feel like the handle is a little bit big for me.

Like the swell of the handle?

Yeah, swell of the— yeah, near the pommel.

Yeah, it's a—

I feel like it's a little bit too big. I just picked up the Benchmade. What is that, the High Country? I think that is their new hunting knife. And it's okay. I like the— I like the jimping and everything. It's a good-sized blade. I'm not sure what I think about the handle so far. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I've been influenced by a lot of different knives, but they're all kind of that same general drop point profile, right? Flat grind and just a comfortable, easy handle. So yeah, they're, they're all good pros and cons.

And this is a perfect example of a great reason to buy a bunch of different knives. Yeah. So you can see what you Like, for sure, for sure.

Because I mean, we've gone back and forth. So I mean, obviously we had a good idea of what we wanted. Then Jason, our designer, who's kind of helping us get the profile and everything into CAD so we can go to production with it. But we've gone back and forth as far as—

Explain what CAD is for—

Computer-aided design. Yeah, basically it's the software program that you take from something on paper.

I didn't know what CAD was until we started.

Yeah, yeah. So And it basically is how you get it onto a digital format so that you can either laser cut it or, you know, however, however that's being made. So it's just an easier process so you can make sure that it's the same knife every time, you know. So when you go to production, you're not handmaking every single thing because we're not trying to be a, like, a custom hand knife. I mean, because the thing is, those are great. Nothing wrong with that. But it's really expensive, very time consuming, and you're going to have little deviations and changes and it's not going to be the same knife.

It's— that's a cool— that's a cool thing. It's just—

It's somebody wants to collect a style. Yeah, exactly. You know, not what we're going for. You know, we're also not trying to mass produce something in China either. We're not going that route. We, you know, we're making in the US and everything. That's obviously a priority here. Yeah, for sure. The best quality that we can get.

Yeah, definitely. Yeah.

So I think as far as like the iterations of the knife going back and forth, so even like little things like the jimping, like how high should it be?

Yeah, exactly.

Like right now we're like an inch from the edge of where the blade starts to right before the ferro rod notch that we've added. So somebody can use a ferro rod to to light fire.

Yep. And even, even just like, I mean, adjusting the choil so it's not so deep, you know, just like the little stuff like that. Yeah.

Because like originally, you know, when we had talked about having like a ricasso finger notch.

Yes. Yeah.

So we could choke up on it a little bit more and, you know, then we got rid of that. And yeah, there's just been so many iterations on this to get it where we are now. And we're— we've 3D printed them and we like it. Now we're going to have the prototype made before we go to full production.

Yeah, man.

Yeah, so we're getting close, getting really close with it.

Yeah, it's cool, it's cool. It, um, yeah, it's, it's neat seeing it all just like come together.

Yeah.

Because I mean, you know, when we started talking about it, it's like, okay, so we're actually gonna do this? Yeah, I mean, like, I think we had a text thread going, we're like, all right, let's do it.

So here we go.

Yeah, um, yeah, just like, I mean, even just seeing the, the 3D model, you know, um Yeah, which is really cool. Getting, getting the prototype ready here. Yeah, it's been, it's been awesome.

Well, let's talk a little bit about the brand creation process. And as far as building that out and positioning ourselves and, you know, what our values are and things like that, and maybe like some of the other companies that we've looked at for inspiration or that we admire and because they're doing a really good job of all that. What If there is a company or companies that you think have done a good job either positioning themselves or branding, or give me an example of some of those that you like.

Yeah, a few, few come, come to mind. Um, so as far as, um, ones that I think are, are maybe up and coming— not even up and coming, but I think that are doing a great job— um, I mean, we talked a little bit about Argali. Um, they're just doing some really cool stuff.

Yeah, they got some great knives in there. Yeah, meat bags are fantastic.

Yeah, yeah. And even like their media stuff, I mean, they're Their videos, short films that they're doing, and their conservation. Yeah, exactly. Um, yeah, so I've been kind of watching them for a couple years, um, and it's just— it's been really cool to see what they're doing.

Yeah.

Um, so I, I would say, I mean, I have a lot of respect for kind of the way they're approaching it, and they're just doing some, some innovative stuff.

Yeah.

And I mean, even like we said, the, the Sirak there, like, I mean, because we, we skinned a few deers over deer camp with that thing Yeah, and I think too we used it and it was great.

Oh, fantastic.

Yeah, yeah. Um, good job, Brad.

Great, great use of steel.

No kidding, no kidding. Um, you know, a company that I think has done a really good job at branding and marketing is Black Rifle Coffee. Yeah, I mean, you like— I think they're around like 6 years old maybe. Okay, somewhere around there. They might be a little—

they are killing it. Um, and I'm not really a fan of their coffee either, you know.

I think they're doing some good stuff. It's not my favorite coffee.

That's a perfect example of a company that's got the marketing right, but the product maybe not so much.

Right, right, right. Um, yeah, I mean, the crazy thing is, I mean, you have some huge names that are, are touting, and you know what the behind-the-scenes stuff is for that, I don't know, obviously. But, um, I think they've positioned themselves very well. Um, I mean, they've grown a lot. I think they've got like 200 employees now.

Wow.

You know, um, and I mean, I feel like they've done a lot in a short amount of time. Yeah. Um, and it's cool. I mean, they've got the whole veteran thing. So I mean, they employ a ton of veterans, they give back a ton to veterans. So I mean, I think they've really done a good job at kind of doing a niche, you know, for, for what they stand for and who their, you know, target audience is.

Yeah. Well, that, and that's the thing as far as like finding your niche, who your audience is, and creating content and building a brand. Directed to them. Um, yeah, that, that's definitely the most important thing. And there's a lot of companies that create amazing products, but they've just done a terrible job of marketing them, so they're not as well known.

Yeah, yeah. And I think that's— I think it's an interesting thing. You'll find like this amazing little company that has like this terrible website, and you're like, this is the best product I've ever used.

There's a few like that.

Nobody knows about them.

Give me an example of one.

Um, Uh, the Purcell French grill.

Yeah, I mean, it's a fantastic grill, but their website is terrible.

And, and more power to them if that is what they want to do. Like, I respect the hell out of that. Like, this is what you want to do, you do this a little bit. But it's just like, man, like, you know how many people could be using this grill?

Yeah, I think they're hand-making them though.

So, I mean, which is a whole nother— yeah, that's a whole nother, another thing. Um, but yeah, I mean, that, that's, I would say, one that comes to mind. It's just, you've got this great product, but like, not many people know about it.

Yeah. Well, that's the thing in creating a company that is built to scale.

Yeah.

So that you've got the product quality right. You've got the marketing right. You're positioning yourself and, you know, you're not just like this little obscure thing that no one knows about, but you also don't want just to build it so big so that you're just trying to like lose— you lose your soul, you know, you lose who you are and your product quality. You're trying to scale so much and so quickly. Uh, so that the, uh, the quality goes out the window.

Yeah.

And because you're just trying to hit mass market as much as possible, we never want to be that.

Right. I think, I mean, to touch on that, we even talked a little bit about that last night. Um, one of our buddies was in, we're just talking about real wild and gear and, you know, what we normally do. Yeah. Um, and just talking about like, you know, why, why are we doing this? Why do we want to do it? You know? Yeah. Um, and, and really just trying to I, I think just be transparent with it.

Sure.

You know, and keeping true to why we're doing it, um, which I think typically pretty comes naturally to, to us, um, you know, of, of keeping your head on with it and, you know, moving forward.

Quality over quantity.

Yeah, exactly. Yep. Yeah, yeah.

Like, like we were having that conversation last night with Mark, the Dirty Pirate Hooker.

The infamous name.

Uh, yeah, I mean, he, he's Very different than us as far as the types of products that he's interested in, or he he wants it cheap.

I think he's got to shout out each podcast.

Yeah, for some reason because yeah, because he looks at it different, which is good.

I mean, it's good feedback for sure.

Just because we kind of can all get our head in the same place as far as we have to build the best quality thing possible, and no matter the cost. Granted, we also got to realize that there are certain economic limitations there, and that no one if we build it. like the perfect best material, everything, then, you know, nobody may buy it because it's going to cost $5,000, right? Knife or whatever. So that's obviously not going to happen. But yeah, having that happy medium there or that balance of both quality and price and so that it meets the needs of, of the consumer we're going after.

Yeah.

Or creating products for, I should say.

For sure.

For sure.

What about you? What, what are some companies you're, you're digging and Um, liking what they're doing.

And, you know, I've always liked what Patagonia's done. I mean, I, I— there's a lot of things about the company that I don't like as much. Um, they're, they're not big into hunting, which obviously, you know, we're not a hunting brand, but we're obviously big hunters ourselves. Um, and we're creating products for people no matter what they want to do in the great outdoors. Um, so, but I— as far as how they position themselves and how they've grown, which is great, I think they've They may have gotten too big and have spread themselves too thin at times. Another company that I love who really positioned themselves as far as their niche and just create amazing quality products is Hilleberg tents. Oh yeah, fantastic. Yeah, we're talking about them last night. Yeah, for like, what, 40 years or something? And just some of the best tents on the market. Yeah, whether it's for camping, for hunting, for just general outdoors. But I mean, they're bombproof. I mean, they've used them to summit Everest.

Yeah, exactly.

Just amazing, amazing quality tents. So just sticking to that type of quality, that's Uh, that's a really admirable quality, um, to me.

Yeah, and I think that's super cool. Like, just, I, I think it's a different mentality when you say you're building a brand, because I think the way we're approaching Rewild, Rewild Gear, is like we're building something that we want to be around.

Yeah.

You know, it's not just like, let's do this for a little bit, you know, let's, you know, you know, just kind of Go with it and see where it goes. But like, no, we actually want to build a fantastic brand.

That's the big difference. So having coming from a marketing background and seeing the two sides of, of this equation, you have those who are just brand builders. They want to just build a brand or have— it's all about the name or the logo or whatever.

Right.

And then you have the other side who are the direct response guys who just want to create the sales letter, just make all the sales.

Yes.

The thing is, it's not either or.

You need both. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, you— because Those companies that stick around the longest are the ones that build a brand that people know becomes a household name. Think Coca-Cola, right?

Right, right.

I mean, Coke has become synonymous for soda. Just, just the name. It's Kleenex as far as tissues, you know, Band-Aid, right? There's different brands that have become so synonymous with the product that they make that you don't— you think of them as one and the same. And I'm not saying that we're ever going to be able to do that because we are more niche-oriented.

Sure, sure.

But at the same time, it's like the mindset within the approach. And then but also having good copy as far as it's compelling.

Yes.

That puts your message out there as far as what we're doing, why we're doing it, that resonates with the audience, but not just selling something on fear or scarcity-based tactics, which I mean, those can be helpful at times. Yeah, but that's not how you build long-term loyalty.

No.

And a good customer base where people, it resonates with them and they want to stick with you forever. They're just buying it because they're scared of missing out or fear of what's the future or things like that. And so we don't— we want to be more aspirational and not just fear-based, which I think a lot of like the kind of survival preparation, yeah, um, prepper community, they get into a lot of that fear-based and scarcity-based. Not that there's anything wrong with that and that's what they want to do, but are those brands going to be around long-term?

It's hard to say.

I think probably not.

I mean, I think we make a prediction, but, um, yeah, I just don't think that is I, I think it's safe to say that is not the model for sure we plan on or want to follow. Um, you know, I think when, when I read great copy, like, I shouldn't feel freaked out, like, oh gosh, you know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Um, I, I think it should be more inspiring rather than, um, I don't know, the opposite.

Right, exactly. Yeah.

And I, I mean, I think to your point, I think, I think it's it's a both, you know. It's not just focusing on one aspect of it, of, of push, push, push all this product, you know what I mean. Um, it's just, it's cool to see some of these big brands and companies and, and how long they've been around and how they've done it and, um, just their approach to, you know, filling a need.

Yeah, well, and there's also a different ethos when a company hits a certain size, when they just have to keep expanding. I mean, what we call line extension, where they're expanding their product offering so much just to try to maximize their Revenue. But it's— and then they lose a little bit of who they are as far as what their goal and their mission is and the types of products that they're creating.

Yeah.

And I think that's an easy trap to fall into once you hit a certain size. Like, let's take Snow Peak, for example. They've been around for a long time. They make great cookware. We've liked their cookware. You know, we're hopefully coming out with the cookware line as well that can be— it can definitely is going to improve upon Like what they have, but they have so many different products and so many different things. It's like including clothing and—

Oh, they do.

Yeah, they've got stoves and all kinds of different stuff. I mean, it's just so diverse that it's like, okay, who are they? What do they actually do? You know, it's easy to, to lose track of who you are as you grow and expand. And so just trying to be mindful and to stick with, with our principles and be very specific with who we are and who our customers are.

We were talking a little bit about that last night too. Um, we were talking about Eddie Bauer and how I was saying I was talking to this, um, this mountaineer and he's summited Everest like numerous times.

Oh wow.

And, um, so basically Eddie Bauer used to be like a big brand name, like quality name brand back in the day. Um, but then they just— I, I think they just tried to expand and they got into like Sears and all these big box stores. And then so when you said the name Eddie Bauer, I was like, what? Okay.

Yeah.

But now, now they're trying to like make a big push of like get back quality, kind of rebrand themselves.

So when I, when I think Eddie Bauer, I just thought he was a designer and is licensing out his name for gear and stuff like that.

I actually didn't know that. Yeah, he was an actual guide and, um, like big outdoors dude.

Yeah, I didn't know that. I mean, I think the first time I ever heard about Eddie Bauer was the Eddie Bauer Edition Ford Explorer. Like, because that's the car that I wanted when I was, when I was 16. I wanted that, the forest green one with like the beige undertones. Yeah, the Eddie Bauer edition. It was like the upgrade. It looked nicer and everything. Um, that was like the car that I wanted when I turned 16. Yeah, I didn't get it, but you know, I should go back and buy one now. The old school one, if I could find one with low enough miles.

That's a great idea. Yeah, that's a great idea. Oh man, what else we got?

Um, well, let's, uh, you know, this— we're in 2021 now, and so You know, it's— the world is still a little weird.

It is a little weird. Um, so it's always good to be, be prepared for no matter what. Yeah, what comes.

And just trying to get in nature as much to avoid all the craziness out there. Um, but yeah, let's talk about trips like we want to do this year as far as getting into nature and doing different things. Yeah, so I know I've got some that I, that I want to do.

Go fire away.

Um, I, I really want to do a fly fishing trip this summer, you know, out west. Um, a little backpacking, fly fishing, you know, camping, and just catching all of our food and stuff like that. Yep, that's a big one. Um, uh, definitely an elk hunting trip out west.

Nice.

Um, I think those are kind of the 2 big ones that I'm thinking right now. How about you?

Cool. Um, I, I don't have anything real big on the— in the books yet, um, or on the schedule I should say. Probably do some camping trips with the kids, get them out a little bit. Um, maybe going to Colorado this summer possibly, so hopefully do some hiking out there.

Nice.

Um, Fly fishing would be fun. Yeah, it'd be a lot of fun.

Yeah, I just got a new fly rod last summer.

Did you?

Nice. A little bit. When Adam and I— oh yeah, and Mark were— we were out in near, um, we flew into Jackson Hole, so we were kind of all around like the general Yellowstone, Bridger-Teton area. And so we were camping and fishing and it was just so much fun. Um, yeah, so we did a little fly fishing there. I got a new fly rod while I was out there. Nice, nice.

I've never been fly fishing.

No, it's, it's the best.

Yeah, I've That's what I'm kind of afraid of. It's gonna— I mean, because I— so when I was looking into getting, um, a bow and like, you know, reading a ton, devouring information like I do when I'm interested in something, and it was like, oh, once you, once you start, you're gonna be hooked. Yep. So obviously I'm hooked with bow, but that's what I'm afraid of with fly fishing. I'm afraid I'm gonna like it too much and then it's just gonna be another, another one of those things like, oh.

Yeah, exactly.

But, but it'd be fun either way. Either way.

Good.

Yeah, those would be sweet trips though. That'd be a lot of fun.

Well, I think we've, uh, we've been, we've been going here for almost 40 minutes.

Yeah.

So we should probably wrap this one up. Any, any final thoughts as far as like gear products, things like that?

Oh man, I'm just excited to launch. Yeah, I'm just excited to launch. Um, yeah, just, it, it's Just cool to get out here. And, um, I mean, I think any chance we have these weekends and— yeah, I may get to do the podcast in person so much better, obviously.

Yeah, for sure.

Um, yeah, we have to get Josh and I out here soon.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. For sure. Oh, what other thing? So we got our logo finalized.

Oh yeah, yeah, that big one.

Yeah, that was, uh, that was tedious going back and forth on that so much. I mean, basically I had one created and then when I started imprinting that on different materials to see how it would look, realized, uh, this isn't gonna work that well, so we need to tweak it. So trying to keep the—

thank you, John.

Yeah. Trying to keep the wolf, the wolf concept.

Yeah.

As far as like rewilding goes. And so I think I've done a really good job with it. And so it should work pretty well on multiple different mediums and materials and things like that.

So that was a big one to—

yeah. So we just finalized that one a week or so ago. Oh yeah.

2 weeks ago maybe.

Yeah. So that's, so that's coming along.

Um, should start seeing it here soon.

Yep. And so we still got lots of work to do here before launch and, you know, we're gonna keep producing podcasts and some other content and stuff like that.

Slicking away.

Yep.

Sounds good. All right, man, until next time.

Peace.

Thanks for listening to the Rewild Gear Podcast. You can check out the show notes for today's episode at rewildgearpodcast.com. If you're ready to spend more time in the wild, our line of high-quality minimalistic outdoor gear can help you do just that. Check us out at MissouriWildGear.com.