Ep 33: Jason Holliday on Midwest vs. West Coast Hunting

Welcome to the Rewild Gear Podcast. Modern life, society, and responsibilities have domesticated us, but now it's time to rediscover your adventurous side. Whether that's camping, hiking, hunting, fishing, or just spending time in the great outdoors, this is the podcast for you. Join us as we get back to the wilderness and rewild. Welcome to the Adventure Made Welcome to the podcast. I'm your host, Seth Spears, and I'm here today with Jason Holliday. Jason is the host of the Harvest Holliday Podcast. He's an amateur ATV racer competing in 2-hour cross-country endurance races at both the local and national level. He's also a lifelong bow hunter for over 30 years, and he's a newbie western archery elk hunter for the past couple of years. He's hunted elk for the past 3 years in a row, and I'm really excited to get into some stories there. Outside of his outdoor exploits, he is a financial representative dedicated to helping others put a written financial plan together so that they can their long-term goals for retirement. I almost said requirement. Jason, welcome to the show.

Oh man, thanks for the intro. I really appreciate being here.

Yeah. So excited to kind of dig into you, dig in with you as far as, you know, your outdoor adventures and hunting and all that and your own podcast. So why don't you kind of tell us a little bit about yourself, your background story, who you are, what you do, how you got to where you are today?

Oh, wow. How much time do we have? No.

Yeah.

So as far as my hunting background goes, you know, I'm from Northwest Ohio, born and raised. And my mom and dad bought a small chunk of farmland in 1978 and was very fortunate to, you know, kind of be able to— I always tell the story of, you know, I hopped off the school bus as a kid in my school clothes, ran through the front door in my school clothes and out the back door in my hunting clothes. And, you know, I'm 45 years old. So, My hunting career started in like '87 or '88. I mean, I'm sure I was following my dad and brother in the woods long before that. The woods was my babysitter growing up. And we only owned about 18 acres or 21 acres actually total, but there was other landowners around. So we owned a 20-acre piece of a 100-acre pie, if you will. And as a kid, You know, especially a young kid in the mid to late '80s when, you know, modern-day bow hunting and, you know, all of these things were really kind of getting going and getting really popular. That place was, you know, a very big, big wild ground for me, if you will. And, you know, like I said, I learned a lot of lessons out there as a kid. And, you know, nobody had to take me hunting. I always wanted to go. It was always encouraged, obviously, but no one had to push that hard. I was You know, I was that weird kid that woke up on a Saturday morning at, you know, 12 years old that didn't have to set an alarm clock. You know, I would just go out into the woods and sit and, you know, follow tracks and trails. And that's where I spent all my time. And it was one of my passions and it still is here, you know, over 30 years later. Obviously you mentioned my other hobby and pastime, which is racing four-wheelers. That career got started as a As a 30-year-old, I just kind of took the leap and said, you know, I'm gonna check this off my bucket list and turned into a very expensive hobby and a very, but a very fulfilling career all at the same time. But I'm very glad I did it, you know, for again, the same experiences. So, so yeah, so I'm still, I'm still in Ohio and chasing the dream. Obviously I'm a whitetail, a whitetail guy at heart. But in around 2016, My, my now wife, who was my girlfriend at the time, took me to, um, took me out west for the very first time in my life. Um, we went to Rocky Mountain National Park, got to see the Rocky Mountains for the first time. Uh, went to Yellowstone. Uh, my birthday's in October, so we went in October and, uh, yeah, absolutely. And it was one of those days where we, we actually had like the entire park to ourselves. Um, and I saw a bull elk for the very first time. It was feeding alongside the road.

Wow.

I'll tell this story really quick because this is kind of how it started. I, you know, always kind of wanted to go out west, but it never, like, you know, the spark never turned into anything more than just a spark, I guess. And we saw this big bull elk and it was feeding alongside the road. We were out in the Lamar Valley, which is the northeastern portion of the park there at Yellowstone. And there was no other cars, there was no other people, and this big rutted-out bull, you know, mid-October, he's walking alongside the road and feeding. And I, you know, pulled over and we, we kept our distance from him. We didn't want to, you know, disrupt him or anything. So I quietly took a couple pictures and, you know, the, the, the window was open. So the bull's scent kind of blew in and, you know, my, my, my wife is like, roll the window up. He stinks. I'm like, no, this is awesome. You know? And from that day on, I wanted to be a, you know, really like I set the goal to become a Western big game hunter. And I just knew it wasn't, I didn't want to talk about doing it anymore. I just, I just wanted to, to do it, you know, and I had no idea where to start. I didn't know anything about elk hunting. I didn't know as far as like social media, I wasn't following anyone at the time that, that I could, you know, learn from. Um, I just knew that it's like, I have to do this. And, um, you know, here we are almost 5 years, 5 years later, and I'm like super deep into it, man. Super deep.

Yeah.

But I, I don't regret any of it. Um, I'm, I'm I'm just hopelessly addicted to the mountains. In fact, if anything, I'm, I'm kind of questioning why I, I, I didn't go out there sooner. So yeah, it's the only regret is that I didn't, I didn't make it out there sooner, but we're, we're definitely making up for lost time.

That seems like a recurring story that I hear a lot with people that especially growing up on the East Coast or the Midwest where you grow up hunting whitetail and squirrels and turkey and things like that. And it's like you go out west for the first time and it's like, whoa, this is a different animal entirely. And The landscape is just so much bigger and the terrain and it just— but the difference is it's like it just calls to people. What do you think it is about that that it has such a, such an appeal?

Oh man, I, you know, I think about that. Um, in fact, I try to explain it to people myself. Like, you ever see that movie Jeremiah Johnson? I mean, I think, I think we've all seen the movie. There's a couple times in that movie Where now I can't remember the character's name, but it's the one that Jeremiah meets in the beginning, the, the old trapper or whatever.

Yes.

And there's a couple points in that movie where that dude says, well, the mountains, they just have a way. And then like Jeremiah, you know, Johnson kind of says, huh, what? And then it like cuts off and he kind of, he kind of looks at him kind of funny, like he, he was gonna say something, like something really important in a different time in the movie. He, you know, Says something along the line— I'm paraphrasing a little bit— he says something along the lines of, you know, the mountains just, you know, they have a way. And I'm like, son of a bitch, what does he mean? You know? And, uh, when you go out there, you get it. It's hard to put into words because, you know, especially from a Midwesterner, you know, um, that just sees it in a magazine. You see, you know, that, you know, the pictures that of course don't do it justice. You know, we always, we always say that, but it truly doesn't. Um, you know, and, and when I, when I saw the Rockies for the first time, just as a tourist, I just, I just knew it's like, this is going to be an annual thing of some kind.

Yeah.

And then when you take that next step and you go from hiking the same trails that all the tourists can to actually stepping off the trail and going into remote, rugged places and, and feeling, you know, the feeling of, of, uh, feeling very small, you know, in a very, in a very large wilderness and being in a real wilderness. Um, and, and exposing yourself to, to new challenges, both physically and mentally and emotionally. Um, it, it does something to you. And, um, like I said, it, it's, you know, yeah, the mountains have a way of like calling you back. You know, I, I think it was, uh, it was, uh, Muir, John, John Muir. Yeah.

Yeah.

That said, uh, you know, he wrote many, many books on, you know, the wilderness and his time out there. And one of my favorites is, uh, you know, The Mountains Are Calling. And I must go. And darn if it isn't the, the truest thing. Like, I just stare to the west sometimes because I just know, you know, and I sound silly and I, I may be, you know, kind of, uh, overdramatizing it a little bit, but not really. Um, anybody that's really been out there and, and let the mountains kind of work their magic, if they're, if they're listening right now, they're, they're, they're nodding their head and they're going, yep, I know.

Oh yeah, we're on the same page there. When I first went to Yellowstone, um, this would have been 2017, um, you know, I'd been to Colorado, I'd been to Utah, and I'd seen these different mountain ranges, and they were beautiful, and they just really spoke to me. But something about driving along the Snake River before you're getting into Jackson and just seeing the mountains and the hills, and you get there, it literally brought me to tears because it was just so beautiful. And I'd never seen anything like that before. It's like, kind of like the movie A River Runs Through It.

Yeah.

Where it's fly fishing, and you know, you got the mountains on the side and the streams, and it's just just the intrinsic beauty of nature. There's something that just feeds the soul, and I don't even know how to put it into words or describe it just because it's just something you feel, at least for me anyway. And it sounds like for you and, you know, a lot of people that we associate with.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. In fact, as you were saying that, bringing you to tears, the first time we went to Yellowstone— or I'm sorry, to Rocky Mountain National Park— was actually in May of, of, uh, '15, or yeah, 15. And, um, and it was, it was one of those weird times of the year where I couldn't even see the mountains. They actually— my first trip to the Rocky Mountains, the weather was— the clouds were so low that I actually physically could not see the mountains that I was in. But we went up to this spot called Bear Lake, and we hiked up to this lake, and it was still frozen over. There's still snow on everything. And I had never heard such deafening silence, if that makes any sense, you know.

Wow.

And it was just an incredible thing. And it's like something I kind of seek out even Even this, this last trip, um, when I was out in Colorado elk hunting, you know, one of the things that I kind of like look forward to is like that sound of, of silence, you know, when I'm hunting solo or whatever. And, uh, yeah, that's, that's like one of the biggest takeaways is like true, true silence out there and peace. And, you know, yeah, yeah, that, that first time out there, it was an emotional, you know, I'm not gonna lie, I probably got a little emotional.

Yeah.

Excuse me. The first time, because it's kind of an overwhelming experience. And I, and I just think us as hunters, you know, yeah, I think that's that other element that the, the mountains kind of call to us in that way.

Yeah, for sure. There, there is just something so beautiful and different, especially growing up on the East Coast or the Midwest, for whatever reason. Yeah. Well, Jason, I'd like to get into a little bit more about some of your hunting experiences and, you know, how you see the differences between hunting whitetail or mule deer versus elk or moose or anything that, and obviously The terrain is very different and, and how you hunt them is different, but I'd love for you to just kind of talk about that a little bit.

Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, it's apples to oranges really. Um, when it comes to like hunting whitetails here at home, you know, we hunt outta tree stands. Mm-hmm. 99% of the time. Um, you know, like I said, growing up as a kid, I, I hunted mom and dad's property almost exclusively. Uh, I really just got into hunting public lands in the last handful of years. My, my dad passed away in '18. And, uh, mom sold the property, uh, in, in mid, mid-19. And so, you know, I, I was forced to kind of seek out some public land and, um, you know, which is cool, uh, because I, it's forced me to kind of like hone some skills, you know, as opposed to like, you know, having a handful of tree stands on the, the home property that you just knew. Now I have to learn terrain. I have to learn topography.

Yeah.

And, and I have to learn this, the same animal in a different location along with hunting pressure, which is challenging, but it's, it's a good kind of challenging. It's a good kind of rewarding. But as far as the differences between, you know, western big game and, and, you know, hunting here in Ohio, um, a lot of times, you know, you're only half a mile from the truck or a quarter mile from the truck or your home or your—

Yeah.

You know, grandpa's farm. You know, you're walking across the bean field and you're, you're sitting in your stand and you know, you're, you know, you're gonna hop in the truck and head for home or you're gonna head back to the house or even the cabin and, you know, you're, you're, you're gonna be there, uh, with with western hunting, it's, you know, you're— if you're lucky, you're going to make it back to the, the tent, which is, you know, 3 miles from the truck, you know. And, and, you know, you're, you're 1,500 miles from home and you're by yourself. And, um, you know, that's a, that's a different dynamic. And that's something that I really wasn't prepared for, or at least I wasn't as prepared as I thought, um, that first couple of trips out there, out, out west.

When you say prepared, are you talking about physically just as far as doing your conditioning and training beforehand? No.

I mean, I, I still, I still had a lot of room to improve physically, but I was, you know, focusing a lot on, on my physical training. I, I always have been, even, you know, when I raced four-wheelers a lot, a lot more than I do now. I always had some kind of training regimen. But, you know, like they say, you can't prepare enough. You know, when you're coming from, I think I live at like 700 feet elevation going out to, 10, 11,000 feet elevation. It's a huge, it's a huge, huge difference. And, you know, the first time I went out was a scouting trip and it just hit me like a ton of bricks, you know, the elevation and, and things like that and caused a little bit of anxiety and stuff like that too. And, you know, but mentally, I think more than anything, I actually, you know, I've read into it since then, but I've I think I'm one of the lucky few that can actually adapt to high elevation rather quickly, which is nice. But, you know, the mental aspect is something I'm still working through, the mental and emotional aspect of being out there, being solo, being away from home. I've come to find that I think a lot of social media, you know, we use that term romanticizes a lot on my podcast. You know, I think—

Everything's glamorized.

Yeah, it gets really glamorized. You see the guy, you know, he's already at the peak and he's like, oh, we're here. Or he gets the bull down and it's like, whew, that was a tough hunt. And it's like, you don't really realize how many layers of, you know, are, are that go into a hunt like that, especially for someone that's new, you know, from the West going out there that hasn't really done it before. And you've never been away from your kids or your wife or, or home. And it's, and it's, it's something that doesn't get talked about. And so that's something I'm, I'm actually trying to talk about a little bit more.

Yeah.

To just kind of try to, you know, add that extra, extra layer there for people to learn that wanna come out and do it too.

Yeah. So when you are going out there, are, are you going solo or are you going with a buddy or a group or a guide?

Yeah. So I went out the first year with a friend of mine and he ended up getting really sick and ended up turning into a solo hunt. So my first elk hunt, wow, was inadvertently a solo hunt and I ended up calling in a bull. On my first, my first hunt ever, I, I found this meadow and hiked a few miles down to get it. And lo and behold, there was a bull with some cows down there and we had a really cool exchange back and forth. And, you know, I ended up calling him right to me. He only, he got up above me on the, on the edge of the mountain a little bit and he ended up smelling me and, and taking off. And I was left standing there shaking and drooling and crying or whatever, you know, and freaking—

Buck fever.

Yeah. I, yeah, it's like buck fever on a level. I remember like laying my bow down and like, I gotta, I gotta lay down, you know. And I've had buck fever. I've shot a couple of really nice bucks in my life, but I've never felt an adrenaline dump that was this intense where it's like, I think I might puke. I, you know.

Yeah.

And, uh, but yeah, it's, it's been solo. The, the 2020 was a solo trip. Um, you know, it was, it was actually supposed to be a buddy hunt, uh, but the gentleman, um, unfortunately had to bail on me. He had, he had work obligations. So that turned into another solo hunt that didn't go so great. And then this, this past year I hunted with my nephew who's a Colorado resident and it was his first, his, his first time hunting. So we got to hunt together this year, but I also did, I did a few days solo while I was waiting for him to, to get outta work too.

Now, are, are you getting drawn or are those over-the-counter tags you're getting?

The first 2 years were over-the-counter. This year was a draw tag. So I did a draw tag and we, we got in on that.

Yeah, cool. That's great. So you said something interesting as far as going solo and how the mental aspect of that. I'm curious about that, because that's something that I've experienced. And just me personally, over the years, I've been one of those people where I like to be surrounded by others. And just, you know, have friends and family. And it's like, it's more enjoyable. But over the past year, I've been doing a lot of just internal work and soul-searching and focusing on, you know, being comfortable in the silence and being alone. And what that's like. And so I'm curious as far as your experience there, and has that been similar for you? Because that's a, you know, that's a big hunt, and you're going out there, you know, 5, 7 days, whatever the case may be, just by yourself with nothing but your thoughts. And maybe your phone works, maybe it doesn't, depending on where you are, and just focusing on nature and the animals and all of that. So I'd love to hear more about your experience there and what that was like just from your own mental standpoint.

Yeah. I kind of lost you there for a second. It kind of glitched out on us, but I think I got the gist of the question. Yeah, it sounds like you kind of had the same or deal with the same, you know, stressors, if you want to call them that.

Yeah.

So yeah, like I said before, we get really ramped up. You see a lot of guys that are, you know, I'm going on my first elk hunt ever this year. I'm coming from Ohio and, you know, gonna go 10 days over-the-counter tag, DIY, solo, You know, because we see these guys doing it that, you know, that have been doing it all their lives. And now it's this, this is the coolest thing to do. And they get out there and they just get thrashed in 2 or 3 days and they go home and it's like, well, you know, you know, it's just this, you know, the mountain or whatever. And they don't want to admit that it's like, I got out there and cried the first night in my tent because I've never actually been alone alone. Like we see that show Alone and you see these dudes bail on like day 1 and you're like, that guy sucks. How did he bail on day 1?

Yeah.

Like, I get it because I've driven out there, you know. I drove out— my 2020 hunt really sucked because I, when I left the home, I wasn't in a good headspace. Um, I was a wreck when I left. I just, I hadn't seen the area. I hadn't done any preseason scouting. The year before I did, I took us, you know, some time and did a scouting trip. So I went out to this place totally blind. So I was very nervous, you know.

Yeah.

And then when I found a spot to camp, I'm like, okay, I'm here. And, and due to lack of planning, I was just kinda like, everything was so big. You know, the mountains are so big and it's like, I don't know where to go. I don't know. This isn't how it looks on Instagram. You know? And, and so I get out there and of course, I, I start to miss my wife. I get a little, like, homesick feeling.

Yeah.

And I think some of that gets brought on by, you know, I guess maybe we'll call it the fear of the unknown.

Mhmm.

You know, I don't, you know, I don't go out there thinking I'm gonna die, but there's definitely, like, stepping off the trail into actual wilderness. And, you know, it's like you worry about bears or whatever, which I'm not really worried about bears, but it's, it's a little bit deeper than that.

And, uh, yeah, probably not in Colorado as much as like, say, Montana or somewhere. But yeah.

Yeah, I mean, there's black bears and mountain lions out there too, but the chances of really running into one, you know, it's— I think it's a little blown out of proportion. But I think a lot of it is, is the— like you said, I'm a people person as well. I'm surrounded. We're all surrounded by people all the time. And if we're not, we've got a means to connect with social media, text messaging, you know, so there's always that. And then when you get out into one of these areas, you don't even have a way of communicating unless you have like a communication device, like a Garmin inReach, for example, which I did not have on my first hunt. I bought all this other gear like a dummy.

Oh boy.

And I thought I was gonna be hunting with a buddy, so I didn't need like a communication device. Well, He ended up, you know, getting sick and leaving. And there I was, you know, without anyone to talk to or even really tell my wife, like, I'm gonna be here. I actually came off the mountain on that first trip for a couple of days and got a hotel. And like, you know, I ended up telling her like, hey, this is a, this is the location I'm going. If you don't hear from me in like 4 days, send in the cavalry.

Yeah. Yeah.

That's, that was a real jerk move, you know, for me to do that. So I bought a, I bought one the very next year. But yeah, it's definitely, you're not, you're not alone in it, man. I, I get people messaging me too. I had a guy message me this year while I was out there, total stranger, listens to the podcast. And he was like, dude, I didn't realize how like alone or how much I like the feeling of missing home. And like, you know, like, because when it gets dark out there, it gets freaking dark.

Yeah.

You know, and if you're not used to, and this goes back to the whitetail thing, like we're used to like, I'll hike in the dark all night long to get to my tree stand or whatever.

Sure.

But we know we're coming out. We know we're sitting for 3 or 4 hours. We know the truck is a quarter mile away. We know the house or our buddies at deer camp are, you know, just a short walk away. And in the mountains, there is no short walk away.

Yeah.

You know, I've got some of my, some of my, you know, closest friends that do this a lot more than I do. You know, they're not getting back to the tent until 10 o'clock at night. Sometimes they're leaving early in the morning and they're not getting— you know, they're hiking the mountain in the dark and they're not on a trail, you know, and it's spooky and it's, it's very spooky and You know, it definitely plays mental tricks on you. And yeah, I'm definitely, yeah, in the same boat as you. I'm learning, I'm learning some things about myself. And yeah, I've come off the mountain early. It's, it's caused me to come off the mountain early and come home and then go, how, why did I do that? Why did I get, you know, in this kind of mental headspace and why did I quit early? Because I—

It's so easy to do.

Yeah. You get frustrated. It's easy to get frustrated when you're not seeing animals and you just feel like you're hiking around with a bow on your back and Yeah, it's, it's, it's not everything that, that social media, you know, cracks it up to be.

Oh, totally. How did, how did you handle navigating without, say, a Garmin inReach or one of the GPS systems if you were out there by yourself? Like going from like your base camp to where you're scouting to hunting and hiking, you know, miles at a time often.

Yeah. So I, I did have onX Maps, so I knew where I was going.

Okay.

Um, nobody else knew where I was going. I had no way of actually communicating, so I could see like, you know, okay, I'm gonna take this trail. I downloaded maps. For offline use, which is great. You know, OnX has that tool where as long as you download it beforehand, you can, and you have your, you know, your GPS locator on, you know, you can, you know, use the map that way, just like a regular GPS, which is cool. So I always knew where I was going. I could see terrain features and things like that. But in the back of my mind, I'm like, something happens, you know, no one's gonna know. And, and I, that, that caused me to come off the mountain early that first year. And that was probably a good call. I, Yeah. I was climbing and doing some sketchy stuff, and I'm like, man, if I fell right now, you know, it could be bad. Yeah, it could be bad. So common sense is, yeah, spend money on a good communication device before you go buying a bunch of expensive gear.

Yeah, for sure. So you were talking earlier about the differences between East Coast and Midwest hunting versus West Coast and, like, how it's a much shorter walk typically to a tree stand. So it's gonna be interesting this year for me. So me and my brothers, we always hunt back in Kentucky where I've got property. So I just recently bought some additional acreage that attaches to the property that, that I already own. And it's very long and thin, and it's like a mile walk from one end to the other. And so we've never hunted this, but we've seen lots of sign of big deer. And so it's going to be a really interesting experience. So if we go to the very end and are harvesting one, it's basically going to be like hunting out west where we're going to have to harvest it, you know, prep it and everything and put it in meat bags and hike it back because it's a really long walk. And I, I haven't heard of anyone actually talking about doing that on the East Coast at all. So have you had any experience with, uh, more like a West Coast style hunting but on the East Coast?

Yeah, it's, it's kind of funny you mentioned that because, you know, I, I really think that is a West Coast thing that's starting to gain some traction, um, out, out east here because a lot of guys are really getting into that western hunting. They're seeing guys, you know, if you kill a bull, you're quartering it out, you're putting it in game bags, you're throwing it on your pack. Um, and, and a lot of us East Coast guys, you know, especially hunting the public land, there's, there seems to be a popularity in the, you know, the run-and-gun style of whitetail hunting where you, you've got your stand on your back and maybe you're moving around these larger expanses of public land. I know Jake Bush is a really good friend of mine and an incredible whitetail hunter. He covers a lot of ground on public land. In fact, he shot a really Huge buck on public land in Ohio this year on his first sit. And it was— I think he had to go about 2.5 or 3 miles from where he parked just to get to his stand.

Whoa.

Um, and then just to beeline back after he killed the buck, I think was still a couple miles just beelining straight back to the truck. And they quartered that buck out.

Yeah.

Um, and I've even talked to people too, like, well, you know, if you kill a buck back there— because I hunt by myself a lot on public— and it's like, well, you're gonna have a hell of a time dragging them. I'm like, No, I won't. I'll quarter him out. Yeah. I'll quarter him out, throw him on, on, you know, I, I bring my, I have a Kofaru Striker XL pack. Yeah.

Those are great.

It's like I can throw that deer and it's like, well, can you do that? And I'm like, well, yeah, you can do that. But it's funny people say that because they don't think about, they think, well, you gotta drag it just like grandpa did. No, you don't. Work smarter, not harder. So, so yeah, I actually, it's funny cuz I killed a, I killed my first public land buck. Um, just a couple weeks ago and, uh, it died within 100 yards of the road. You know what I mean? So I'm like, man, and I drug it to the truck. Uh, and I remember thinking, if this thing was 110 yards, if it was 10 yards farther, I was going to quarter this thing out and carry it back to the— I'm not— it's like, I'm never dragging a deer ever again. Like 50 yards is my limit now. It's like, this is stupid. I'll just break out a knife and get my pack bloody before I—

Yeah.

Go, you know, giving myself a hernia. Exactly. So yeah, it is definitely a thing that I think more hunters are, are, because they're seeing guys quartering out big game out west. And, uh, you know, I think they're, they're seeing the benefits of that because I think a lot of guys are starting to go just for the simple fact they're going deeper now, you know, in, in the whitetail woods, which is cool.

Yeah, makes sense. Places that aren't typically hunted as, as frequently.

Yeah.

As those that are a little bit closer. Now, Jason, are you primarily or, or only a bow hunter or do you rifle hunt as well?

Yeah, primarily I'm a bow hunter, but, you know, I enjoy getting out a couple times a year with a shotgun for waterfowl. I like to get out and do some predator hunting when I can. It's been a couple years since I've really gotten back into that. But, you know, back in the day as a kid, I did a lot of, you know, coyote calling and stuff like that.

Yeah.

And we'd hunt with shotguns sometimes depending on the area and sometimes rifles too. But yeah, for the most part, it's just bow hunting. I can't imagine Going out west, you know, with a rifle. I just— the challenge of bow hunting, um, it's like I said, even when I was a kid, I did not partake in the, the Ohio— the gun season in Ohio. That's my week to sleep in.

Interesting.

Yeah, I just don't do it. I just— I'm not a big fan of it. I mean, great for those that— who, who love that, but, uh, yeah, it's not for me.

Yeah, interesting. Yeah, so, um, we primarily do more rifle hunting than bow hunting, although we're getting into the bow side more because we always do like our annual deer camp, like, in That starts from when we're recording this weekend, actually. So we're going to be driving up to Kentucky and, you know, myself and my brothers and my father and our sons. And it's like, it's like this tradition that we've been doing for years where we get together and we eat really good and drink really good and hang out and then hunt and, you know, tell stories. And so it's just like this really bonding experience. And it's always because that's right around when the rut is.

Yeah.

So the opening of rifle season. So, and, you know, we'll bow hunt a little bit as well, but primarily, you know, we're We're there for a short period of time, so we're trying to get meat and so try to be as, as advantageous as we can with how we procure it. So, so it's, it's fun.

Yeah, we just did this. In fact, my, my friends and I, this was our 4th year, I think, doing our little deer camp. It's a little 3-man deer camp.

Yeah.

And, and so, yeah, I totally get like the, the camaraderie thing, you know, because I hadn't ever done anything like that up until just a couple of years ago. They invited me along and it's, it's really the thing I look forward to more than, than even my elk hunting. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I, I joke that like the opening of deer season for me or for, for rifle season and deer camp, it's like Christmas because there's, you're just giddy with anticipation of like the next morning, like opening morning. It's like, are we gonna see anything? Are we gonna call in a big one? Um, you know, maybe it's just a doe, whatever. And, you know, sometimes we see tons, sometimes we see nothing, sometimes we take one, sometimes we don't. So, but it's just that anticipation of, uh, what may be.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. So it's, it's a lot of fun. Now I've heard stories about people doing an elk camp as well, which I don't have any experience with that personally, but I guess that's kind of an up-and-coming thing too. Have you done anything like that?

No, no. In fact, like I said, this year was the first year I hunted with a partner, my nephew that lives out west. He and I hunted together. And honestly, I've got a couple other really close friends that actually elk hunt more, more than I do. They've been doing it for several years. And we've talked about doing maybe a, a 4-man group. They actually have like a canvas wall tent. And my one, my one friend Todd, his, his son is, you know, he's about 15 or 16 now. So he's been wanting to get him out. In fact, I think he took him out last year for like third season rifle out in Colorado for the first time. And we've been actually talking about, you know, like the 5 of us have to get together at some point and, and do like a group camp. So I'm sure at some point in time, we'll, there will be like an actual, you know, elk camp. So looking forward to that for sure. There you go.

Yeah, that'll be a lot of fun. Jason, so you would consider yourself an outdoorsman, I guess, right?

Oh yeah.

Yeah. So what, what is it about nature and the wilderness that really speaks to you? Why is that so important and such a part of your life?

Oh man, you know, like I said, I was just born into it. And I know people personally who are, you know, dads primarily, you know, getting their sons into hunting, not to be stereotypical of women or anything, but, you know, the vast majority is men, you know, getting their sons in. And I know dads whose sons want nothing to do with hunting and they've taken them everywhere and they've tried to introduce them and some boys just, they don't want to hunt. You know, they don't wanna do what dad does or whatever. And, and that's fine. Yeah. They do their own thing. But for me it was like a no-brainer. Like I told you earlier, nobody drug me out into the woods and said, come on, son, it's time to go duck hunting. It's like, you know, they're like, stay home. You know, I'm going hunting without you. You know, kind of a thing. You know, not, I mean, jokingly, but, you know, I just, I had a, a love for, like I said, that little piece of property. You know, I had tons of friends as a kid, but like, I just, I wanted to be in the woods. There's just something about it. Like, You know, it was my safe place. Uh, it was, you know, even a very small woods in Northwest Ohio for a 12-year-old boy is full of adventure. You know, in fact, I, I remember one time I, I had, uh, I was packing a, a backpack for like a, an all-day hunt, if you will. And I'm like 12 years old at the time, right? So I had like hot chocolate and a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. And, you know, my dad's like, where are you? What are you doing? You going deer hunting or you going camping? I'm like, I don't know. I just felt like Being out, and it was like wintertime. So I hunted till like 8:30, and then I just like walked to the woods, and I found— I just wanted to go somewhere and eat a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and get a fire going. And that's what I did. I found this one cool spot, and I, I got a fire going by myself, and I was sitting there drinking. And I'm like 12 years old, right? And I'm like doing it.

Yeah.

But I'm sitting there drinking a hot cup of, you know, hot chocolate and eating my peanut butter jelly sandwich at 12 years old. And, and I just like, this was it, you know? Like, I just knew that this is what, you know, and like I said, here I am 45 years old and Nothing changes. Like, I look out the window and, you know, it's like I can't even look out the window this time of year because I just want to be there. You know, like I said, the mountains— and the mountains make it worse. My wife will tell you that. It's like, like, I feel a sense of almost like mourning. Like, like there's a friend out there, someone I love very, very much, and I can't see them until like next September.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? It almost kind of hurts inside. And I'm not even making that up. Like, there's a There's an actual pain of like, I miss something, I miss someone, you know, that's the feelings that the mountains make it so much worse. Like, you know, probably because I'm here in Northwest Ohio and I can go to a swamp or a cornfield or whatever, but like the mountains escalate that feeling of, of wanting to belong. And, um, yeah, really, I just feel like that's where I belong.

Yeah.

You know, it's just a natural, call it primal or whatever, not to be silly, but yeah, it's just like when you know you belong, like you're, when you're in that zone, Um, yeah, you just know it's just natural.

Oh, I feel that for sure. And it's been challenging for me over the past few years because I currently live in Florida, in North Florida, and it's just not the same. The lack of seasons and the leaves changing colors and the weather getting cool and you can feel that like crisp breeze in the air, like, oh, this is great. So not having that has definitely been a challenge. Um, but there is definitely something that calls me anyway to, uh, to being out in nature this time of year during the fall. So it's, yeah, it's hard to pinpoint. All the stuff we're talking about, being in nature and hunting in the wilderness, there are a lot of threats to those things today when it comes to the conservation side, or we're losing some of those species, or just the primitive habitats and all of that. What do you see as the biggest threat to, to the wilderness, to the woods, to those natural habitats and conservation today?

I think the biggest thing is, is hunters not getting on the same team. Honestly, I think there's a lot of inter-industry bickering and fighting and things like that. And I think ultimately we're going to be our own demise, you know, if we don't kind of get all on the same page and rally together to join some conservation efforts. I think Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation is a great, you know, conservation effort for the West. And I know there's some others. That are really good conservation clubs. Ducks Unlimited has been around forever and just getting a membership is a good start, but getting active, even myself, I need to challenge myself to be a little bit more active, especially if I care about public lands out west, even though I'm a non-resident, I'm still a quote unquote public landowner. And I feel like going the next step beyond just buying a duck stamp. Or, you know, I know some of that money goes towards, towards, you know, public lands and things like that, but I think we can always do— ask ourselves what else we could do, whether it be volunteer work or, or whatever, you know. So definitely stepping up a little bit.

It seems like that there is a difference between— educationally— between West Coast hunting and Midwest or East Coast hunting as far as conservation goes and protecting the public lands and those wild spaces. I'm curious why you think that is, or, and maybe this is just my own perception, um, but just seeing that discrepancy.

Yeah, I, I think I've heard this before too, and it is kind of interesting because out here in the East Coast we don't talk about public lands, probably because public lands are quite a bit smaller. Um, you got a lot of farms where, you know, in this area, a lot, at least back in the day, you know, grandpa owned a farm and you hunted that farm and you didn't really travel to a lot of public lands. You know, even here in Ohio, we, we have I'm not even going to try to make up the number, but I did look at it once and there's like units in Colorado, single actual small game management public land units in Colorado that still have like triple the amount of public land that the entire state of Ohio has. You know what I mean? So there's just not as much public land, I think, out on this side of the Mississippi. And, you know, I think maybe people just don't give it a lot of thought because maybe there's— they're hunting more private opportunities or they're leasing ground. I know a lot of, um, you know, farms that used to just give permission, now they give permission if you give them a, you know, a paycheck basically. So it's definitely changing a lot.

And very unfortunate. The other thing that I've noticed is even hunting on public land, often hunters will not take care of it as much as those hunting on public land out west. And I'm not sure why that is. I mean, But I've seen that even on my own property, the people that owned it previously, or maybe generations before that, where they'll just litter cans and bottles and paper and plastic. And so anytime I'm out there, we're always just cleaning up and old fences and things like that just to improve the land itself and take care of it. And I'm not sure why there's a different mentality there, but it's, it's kind of frustrating. Yeah. Yeah.

It definitely is. And, and like I said, you know, hunters get labeled, you know, a lot of different labels, I think, by the anti-hunting community. And like, this goes back to what I said earlier, people just need to police themselves. We need to police each other, especially when it comes to, you know, leaving a— and I've done the same, I've picked up Mountain Dew bottles, you know, on public land and, you know, candy bar wrappers and things like that. And it's like, God, carry it. If you're gonna carry it in, just carry it out. It's, it's pretty simple. It's not, it's not hard to do because like I said, these things aren't guaranteed. You know, these Lands can get taken away, um, if we're not, you know, and it's just a, it's just a respect thing at the, at the end of the day, you know. But again, you know, people, um, you know, I could, I could probably go down a huge rabbit hole, but yeah, people just need to police themselves, uh, and we need to, you know, just kind of maybe, you know, get a little bit more active again and, and, uh, maybe spend some time off season. You know, I do a lot of scouting now, a lot more than I used to on, on public land and Part of that scouting trip is if there's like a, you know, those balloons that are like, happy birthday, Amy, you know, that just float around and land in the woods. I, I've picked up, you know how many I've picked up last year? You know what I mean? Like I need to start selling like used balloons or something, you know, but I, but all jokes aside, I've picked up that stuff and brought it home. Old, you know, Gatorade bottles and things like that. So if you got an extra pocket, just throw some trash in it and take it home with you.

Yeah, exactly. I think it comes down to personal responsibility. Yeah.

Yeah.

Jason, what is the biggest life lesson that nature and the outdoors has taught you over the years?

Oh man, there's so many. Um, boy, that, that's a good one. I, I've got this saying too, like, you know, it, it doesn't matter, like, because we get so wrapped up, and I say we, I say, you know, I, I include myself in this as well. Um, people that, you know, look at buying gear because gear is cool, you know, whether it be the the top-level clothing company or backpack company. And we go out there and just get absolutely humbled by the mountains. The mountains don't care if you're wearing $2,000 of the best— name your favorite hunting camo company clothing. It doesn't matter what boots you have or whatever. The mountains will thrash you and humble you regardless of what you're wearing out there. And, you know, that in itself is a huge lesson. And you are not as tough as you think you are. But it will also show you You know, the wilderness and the mountains, um, and just even hunting, you know, in your favorite tree stand at Grandpa's, you know, will definitely kind of— being out there will kind of show you who you really are, what you're really made of, whether it's just, you know, climbing a mountain or maybe you're doing an all-day sit, you know, in a stand in November in your favorite swamp stand, you know, and even just committing to sitting there all day and like nature challenges you, you know, in those ways because usually there's some kind of lesson, there's some kind of reward. Even if it's not a, a notched tag, you know, when you spend a few days out in the wilderness, you know, coming back out, you're not the same person. I, I tell my wife every time, I'm not the same person that left, you know, for Ohio. I'm a different person when I come back because I've, I've, you know, I've climbed the, the ladder one or two more, more rungs.

Yeah, that makes sense. Mother Nature will always win no matter what we try to do.

Yeah, always. Yep. Yeah, she will.

Jason, is there an adventurous experience that you've had that you would never want to repeat? And why?

I was thinking about that the other day. I, I really, you know, I've never been in any kind of like, you know, bear almost got me kind of experience, you know. So there's never been any, any life or death. There's been a couple of, you know, close calls with, with tree stands and things like that growing up. Fortunately, there was no injuries. Um, but there's definitely been a couple of like, you know, oh, I've gotta, you know, make sure my, my safety is always on point, you know, as far as like harnesses and things like that. And every now and again, there's always like a little slip or a trip or something like that that gets me back into the, you know, the safety-conscious aspects of hunting. But, you know, there's nothing I don't ever want to not repeat because it just, like I said, it makes me a better person even in my failures. And I've been really open about the first couple of years getting dejected and leaving hunts early and coming home And then feeling, you know, feeling kind of dejected about it. And then just, you know, kind of wanting to go back and just like redemption. You know, each year I learned something about myself that I— because it forces you into a place that you just don't— because we're so comfortable here.

We're so—

I'm sitting on the couch right now. I'm at home.

Yes.

You know, and we're so comfortable with our lives and we think the wilderness is going to be this awesome Donnie Vincent movie. And then we get out there and we're just like, This sucks, you know, but there, there is a lesson, there's a reward there, and you just, you know, you have to. And I'm telling myself the same thing, like, you can't quit, you know, you have to. If you've got a week, you're out there for a week, you know. And that's something I'm working through, just like a lot of guys that I'm starting to talk to now are as well.

Yeah, and just pushing yourself.

Yeah, absolutely. Like I said, so there's no bad lessons as long as there's no broken bones or anything like that. So there's nothing I wouldn't want to go through again because it It just shapes you.

Yeah, totally get that. So when you're hunting in Ohio or somewhere in the Midwest, um, are you using a climber stand, a tree stand? Have you gotten into saddle hunting? Love to hear more about that.

I've done it all. Yeah, I started out with ladder stands. I built, uh, you know, the old, uh, the, the TV antennas that used to go up alongside the house. Yeah, our old neighbor used to— aluminum. Yeah, yep, yep. They're kind of like a triangle shape and just— yeah, so my, our old neighbor Had a bunch of those. So we actually built those when I was a kid. So they were at mom and dad's property for a long time. They used climber stands back in the '80s and early '90s and then just went to straight, you know, hang-on permanent stands. And then when I went to start hunting public land, I got into the saddle thing. I just, I saw the allure to it and it just made total sense to have that flexibility to bounce around. Um, because, you know, anyone that's hunted public, you could have like this permanent stand out there or whatever, your ladder stand, and then like, you know, sun comes up and you see a dude, you know, 50 yards away and you're like, ah, I gotta get more mobile. So I did try the, uh, the saddle hunting thing last year. Took me the whole season to kind of get used to it. Um, and I switched, I switched to a, uh, more of a platform style this year. Kind of went back to my roots. I'm, I just, I like to sit down in a seat.

Yeah.

I like to have my knees bent at a 90-degree angle and stand up appropriately. So I found a lightweight system that works for me, but I actually still use, um, the saddle harness portion of that to hang my sticks and stuff like that. So I've got a really cool combo, uh, going right there, and it's, yeah, super effective.

Who makes the stand that you're using now?

It's a Lone Wolf Custom Gear. It's their 1.0 stand, and I'm using their climbing sticks as well. I use 2 of their, uh, long sticks with aiders and On any given day with 2 sticks, I can get about 11 or 12 feet. In fact, I killed, I killed my buck last week. I think I was only 11 feet off the ground. He was at like 10 yards. And so, yeah, I just, I got into a tree that was a, just an oak tree with 3 small trunks about 10 or 12 inches in diameter. So I had some great background cover, break up my outline and yeah, he, he never saw me.

Wonderful.

Yeah.

I, so I just recently purchased, well, I guess it was the end of last year, beginning this year, one of the tethered stands. So I'm very curious to try that out this year. So that's going to be fun.

Yeah, yeah, that's what I had too. And like I said, at first it's very different. Um, if you got a chance to practice with it in the backyard or somewhere, definitely practice with it, practice in it. Um, like I said, it— that I still have it, uh, and I know there's an application for it at some point in time. Um, so I didn't get rid of it. But like I said, I, I've got this lightweight hang-on from Lone Wolf that just— it's, yeah, it's really killer setup and it just works best for me.

Cool. That's great. Jason, what outdoor gear equipment do you consider essential no matter where you're going, whether that's East Coast, West Coast, um, any, any outdoor experience?

Man, I, I, the, the Western thing, like I never had a rangefinder until I went out west. So I bought a cheap one. It's, I don't even remember what it's called. It was, I spent like $100 on it laying around here somewhere. But, um, yeah, just an inexpensive rangefinder. You can go to the moon with prices on really top quality. So Buy the best you can afford, honestly. But if you're gonna go out west or even, like I said, hunting public land and you're bouncing around, like, you know, at Grandpa's farm, you know, it's 27 yards to that little maple over there. You know, public land, you might have to move to a new stand and you wanna get up and just bam, bam, bam, get a couple ranges. So that's— that in itself has actually been one of the surprise, surprise things. It's like, I can't live without this thing anymore. Like, I'll, I'll forget my release before I forget my damn rangefinder.

Yeah.

Uh, so that's definitely been one of the surprise, uh, pieces of gear that, like, western hunting, East Coast hunting, like a, a rangefinder of some sort for sure.

Okay, what kind of bow are you using these days?

So I'm using a— it's a Hoyt, uh, Pro Defiant, which is kind of funny because before that I was, I was shooting the same bow for like 21 years. It was a Martin, uh, you'll love this, it was a Ted Nugent Signature Series Martin.

Whoa.

Um, that I got back in like 1996 or 1997. And then, um, I've been talking about getting a new bow and it was, it was literally like the day after my dad died. I, I went to a bow shop. I'm like, I'm getting a new bow. I don't know why. I just, I was like, I just, time for a change or whatever. So I finally, and plus I was like saving up for like this Western big game hunting. I'm like, I don't want to go out with a 20-year-old bow. I wasn't even shooting sights at the time. In 2018, I was still shooting a compound bow with With, uh, like instinctive.

Oh my gosh.

So yeah, I switched to a new bow. I started shooting with sights, um, started— I switched from a trigger release to a thumb release. So like, I learned archery.

Wow.

Yeah, all over again. Yeah, I started, and it's been a cool process. That's a whole, uh, podcast on its own probably, but it's been a really cool process because I just like— I— the passion I have for just archery in itself is just something that, like I said, As a kid, I just could never put the bow down. So yeah, yeah, that's my, that's my rig for right now is that bow. And, um, just shooting a real inexpensive— it's an Easton Aftermath 400-grain arrow. They're really inexpensive, but I beat the hell out of them and they're really durable.

Yeah.

Um, I don't, I don't mess with any kind of FOC or collars or anything like that. I just screw in a 125-grain, um, Iron Will, uh, S125 broadhead and then just shoot a, a 4-fletch AEE, um, 3-inch, uh, vane, and then that's pretty much it. Yeah.

And you said you like the thumb release better than the trigger release these days?

Yeah, yeah, because I was going through some pretty decent target panic with the trigger and, um, seen a— again, I've seen a lot of Western guys, you know, those freaking Western guys, uh, they were shooting the thumb release. Seeing a lot of guys shooting thumb releases and I'm like, it just intrigued me, you know, guys like John Dudley, and it's like Man, I, you know, and they talked about how it cures target panic or whatever, which I still actually got some target panic from the thumb. I just needed to learn how to use it properly. And I think I may actually switch over to a back tension this winter after the season's over to kind of like train with that. But I love the thumb. I finally— it's taken me about a year and a half, but I finally— I think I got the thumb pretty much dialed in right now. So I'm really, really happy with it.

Nice. What outdoor brands or companies do you just love? You think you're doing just an amazing job on product quality and/or their conservation efforts?

There's really just a few that come to the top of my head. And again, when I started researching Western hunting, you know, I had a lot of hunting clothes that were hand-me-down stuff and stuff I just acquired over the years. Always bought a few sizes too big so I could layer and layer underneath them. for Ohio hunting and some of the stuff I literally had for like 20 years.

Okay.

And so when I went out west, I, I started researching Sitka gear and really started researching the science behind like moving, you know, moisture management and proper layering system. 'Cause it's a different type of hunting. It's a, it's a physical activity. You're dumping tons of sweat and you're, you know, it's very athletic and very aerobic and, you know, so, and I just thought that was cool. You know, I just thought learning that That part of that kind of hunting was, was cool, and it still is cool. Um, and once I got the product, you know, once I, I spent some money— invested, I should say, I didn't spend, I invested the money in some good gear— and just fell in love with the product and actually transitioned some of those pieces into my whitetail hunting setup. And now I'm— I have a full setup for whitetail hunting through Sitka of their gear and, and for western big game because it's like it just became an addiction because I, I enjoy my time out there.

Yeah.

You know, my wife hates it when the boxes show up, but, you know, I, I expect You know, I expect my time, you know, when I have my time out there to, to be absolute quality, you know what I mean? So I demand quality gear.

Yeah.

I know some, some folks, they only get a few days to hunt a year and that's fine. You know, I'm fortunate enough to be able to hunt quite a bit more than that. So when I'm out there, I wanna be able to stay out there and I, and I wanna have gear that can keep me warm, dry, cuz I'm not afraid to be out there in the cold. You know, my best whitetail bucks all came from single digit temperatures. And, you know, so I demand gear that's, that's going to keep me, um, you know, dry. And that, like I said, I really just kind of believe in the Sitka system. Not sponsored by anybody, um, but I have met some good people over there and become friends with a couple of the folks that work there and developed a good relationship with them. Um, uh, Kofaru International is another incredible, incredible company, you know, 100% all-American made, um, In America, All American Components. Incredible company. Aaron Snyder has been— he's been on my podcast a few times. Talked to him offline several times. Yeah, he's great. Not too many companies, CEOs or presidents or whatever, can you reach on the phone or have them call you back and have a great conversation. So that— and that means a lot to me, you know, to be able to have a company that you can interact with. They care about your experience. Their customer service is top-notch. And They build just a great product, especially as a guy coming from out east that didn't know anything about packs either. Um, they really helped me out, and, and that meant the world to me. So, you know, again, I, I endorse these companies for free. You know, no one pays me to, to say buy a Kofaru pack. You know, um, I just, I just do because I believe in the company, and, you know, they're, they're like a big, uh, big crazy family over there.

Yeah.

So yeah, those are, those are at least 2 of the The main— and I run Crispi boots. Again, not sponsored. I picked up a pair of their Colorados, ironically enough, for hunting Colorado and took a chance on them. And they've been a great boot. They fit my feet great. They broke in fast. I really— they, they've done really well. I know everyone's feet are different.

Yeah.

So, you know, don't take my word for it. You know, you might have to try something else. But for me, those, those have been a good boot. And yeah, that's, that's pretty much my kit. Not a whole lot else do I run. And like I said, I don't really endorse anything or talk about anything that I don't actually believe in.

Sure.

So like I said, no one's paying me to, you know, talk about it on the show or anything like that. So if I'm talking about it, it's something that, you know, I think it's a product that, you know, I believe in and is worth checking out.

What's your go-to knife?

Oh man, dude, I've got a, I've got a, it's laying around here somewhere. I've got a Leatherman. It's a, it's a Leatherman Wave.

Okay.

And I've had it, I've literally had it for 20 years. In fact, I was just, I gutted my deer the other day with it. And it's like, I got this little saw blade, you know, you fold it out and it's got the regular knife and then the saw blade. And I, it's like, how many branches have I sawed with it? It's got like a little curve in it, you know, it's a little bit bent. And I'm like, how many branches? Because I have cut down some stuff. I've cut down some like 4 and 5 inch branches because that's all I've had, you know, saplings to get out of my way to clear a shooting lane. And I've put my whole body in it just to try to get the tree to break or whatever. So that thing has always been in my pack, and it's always, it's always, always there. But I've got an Outdoor Edge right now, replaceable blade, and it's a great knife, but it's heavy. And I am trying to minimize weight for hunting out west.

Yeah.

I'm not a, I'm not a lightweight psycho, you know, but I am learning like I write down every year, like, what didn't make it out of my pack. Yeah, you know, what didn't I use? And for 3 years in a row, the Leatherman has never made it out of the pack. So my Leatherman is actually not going to go on the trip next year. And this, this knife might not either, because it's like feeling it in my hand. It's like, there's some other lightweight knives that I'm actually looking at right now, like Havalon, Taito knives, something a little bit lightweight for that type of hunting out there. Like I said, I'm not a you know, super ultralight crazy guy, but it's like, if I could save a pound, I'm gonna do it. Yeah. So yeah, for sure.

It makes sense. Ounces count.

Yeah.

Jason, what book or books have had the biggest impact on your life?

Oh man, we can go all the way back to childhood with that. Where the Red Fern Grows was— that was probably one of the first books. That was the first, like, book that got me hooked into reading books. Um, I'm actually kind of a bookworm. I actually Even as a kid, I did enjoy reading. Same. Magazine articles, you know, Bowhunter Magazine and all the older hunting books. You know, I, I can— I have an imagination, so stories and, and things like that have always been— Fred Bear's Field Notes.

Okay. Yeah.

Man, that would— that's an incredible— that is, and it's actually on audio now. You can find it in on like podcast form. Really, really well done there. But yeah, that was a book I read a lot as a kid and just like him talking about bears and how very articulate he was about, you know, telling you about every little intricate detail of, of, you know, British Columbia or Alaska or whatever. So like, yeah, those are one of the things, you know, growing up. But as most recently, the 2 books that have had probably the biggest impact are The Comfort Crisis by Michael Easter, which I highly, highly, highly recommend anybody that's thinking about going out west. And if you haven't been out there, get it on audio if you, if you consume books that way. Definitely check it out. Incredible, incredible book on mental toughness and emotional toughness. He just did a really great job on kind of exploring the psyche of us as hunters. He actually went on a, like, a 30-day caribou hunt with Donnie Vincent. Oh, and, and he was just a journalist. I can't remember what the magazine was, but he wasn't a hunter, uh, when he accompanied Donnie on this hunt. So he was very new and went on his first hunt. I'm not going to spoil a lot of the details, but he talks about the hunt for a little bit, and then he goes into some, you know, some subtopics, and he kind of comes back around to the hunt. And it's just, it's just really well done.

Yeah.

Um, and I, I learned a lot from that one. Um, and there's another book out called, uh, and I know I'm gonna forget the author's name, uh, it's called Tough. Um, You know, darn it. I'm, I'm not gonna come up with the, the author's name right off, but the, the book is just called Tough. Um, and I think the, the gentleman that wrote it is a, he's an Olympic, um, I think a women's Olympic, uh, weightlifting coach, may, maybe former, but I, yeah, be darned if I can't think of his name right now. Sorry.

I will look it up and add him to the show notes. This is great. Thank you.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah. Jason, other than your own, do you have a favorite podcast you listen to?

Oh, there's a lot of good ones out there, man. I, I love Kofarocast. Um, like I said, Aaron Snyder and the guys out there, uh, do a great job in Entertaining, but they've always got a lot of good information out there. I just like their style. I know they swear a lot on the show, but it feels like I'm listening.

Doesn't bother me.

Yeah, it doesn't doesn't bother me either. But I've learned a lot from those guys, and through them, I've actually a friend of mine, Luke Cadeo, started Gladiators Unleashed, or yeah, I think it's the Gladiators Unleashed podcast. I'm probably saying it wrong, but yeah, he. He's got a really good pod, really fun podcast for dudes just being, being dudes. Um, yeah. And then, uh, Backcountry Rookies, uh, gotta give a shout out to, to Chad. Chad actually helped me get my start with my podcast.

Oh, cool.

So yeah, Chad over at Backcountry Rookies, uh, great show, especially for, you know, those of you that are new to Western big game hunting. I'm— that's, that's in my opinion, even as I have— I love my own show to death, but, you know, Chad's really, you know, for the last few years had it going on. So I, I highly highly recommend after you listen to mine, go over, check out Chad's show.

Yeah, super. Jason, what's one piece of advice you would give to our audience?

Oh man, I give you some— a lot of advice, but if it pertains to western big game hunting, if that's what you're— yeah, yeah, I would say—

Or just something in general, either one.

Man, there's so many, so many pieces of advice I could give. You know, for me personally, I think I think if you want something bad enough, you'll find a way to get it. You're going to work for it though. You know, you're going to fail. You're going to struggle for it. It may take you years to get there. You know, my Western big game hunt didn't happen overnight. I started planning in 2016 and it was 2019 before I actually made it out, made the trip out. And I find a way every year to get out there.

Nice.

You know, I'm not, you know, super wealthy or anything like that, but I put priorities. You know, I could have a brand new truck right now. My truck is older and it's paid off. That's what affords me this hunt, you know, to go out there this year, and it affords me the gear. So you find a way. My advice is, if you want to go, um, western big game hunting, don't get sucked up into buying all the gear. Buy, buy a cheap tent, spray it with Camp Dry.

Hmm.

Buy You know, a good pair of boots because you're gonna wear boots every single day. So buy a good quality pair of boots. Um, buy a good pack. Uh, buy a good pack and get it properly fitted because you're gonna wear a pack every day. But as far as clothing and the layering systems, and you know, I, I endorse Sitka all the time. You don't have to buy all their stuff.

Sure.

You can go to Walmart right now and buy a $20 pair of those Wrangler adventure pants or whatever they call them, and then maybe a base layer, and then a used puffy coat over at TJ Maxx for like $40. It's black or whatever. Like, a lot of guys wear solids anyhow. Just get there. Seriously, just make the trip out west. You know, I've talked to a couple guys that like, man, I'm still trying to build my system. I'm like, you've got enough. In fact, you probably got more than enough. Don't miss a September because you don't think you have all the gear and all the clothing that your favorite influencer has that probably gets it all for free anyhow or gets paid to wear it or whatever. Just freaking get there. Like, I can't stress how awesome the mountains are enough to where you don't want to miss another September because, well, I don't have such and such shelter or whatever. You need very little. Like I said earlier, the mountains will beat you up whether you're, you're, you're rocking the best gear in the world or you're just going out there and, you know, flannel and some, some, some cheap green pants or whatever for the weekend. So it's just about getting out there. So yeah, don't Don't miss a September. Make, just make it happen. Get a plan, get, get a financial plan together. Write down how much it's going to cost and start putting the pennies aside every time you want to, you know, buy something or go out on an extra night and buy the pizza or whatever. That's part of your elk tag. You know, that $25 at the bar tonight, that could be going towards gas money for next year's hunt.

Yeah. Yeah.

If you want it bad enough, you, you got to find a way to make it happen.

That's solid advice. Thank you. Jason, this has been so much fun. Really enjoyed our chat today. Where can people learn more about you online?

Yeah. So if they, if they wanna check out the podcast, it's, it's called the Harvest Holliday Podcast. And Holliday, that's my last name, so it's spelled with 2 L's. Um, H-O-L-L-I-D-A-Y. So it's Harvest Holliday Podcast on IG. Um, I'm pretty much on every platform, Spotify, um, you know, iTunes and stuff like that. And like I said, I, I post a lot there. My, my personal page is Jason Holliday 545, again with 2 L's, uh, on IG. I tend to do a little bit more of my, like, hunting stories or, or that kind of content over there. So I'm gonna try to transition a little bit more of that over to the podcast pages as time goes on. So all the hunting content and that kind of stuff can be there. Like, my, my personal life can be a little bit more on my—

Sure.

My, my personal page. But yeah, that's where people can find me if they wanna connect. They're more than welcome to, you know, slide into the DMs, you know, ask a question or, or make a comment. You know, I, I really appreciate that a lot because I've, I've actually been getting some of that feedback here in the last year. And it's, you know, starting the podcast, I had no idea that it would affect people in a positive way. You know, I have made some incredible friends.

Amazing.

Over the last few years. So yeah, really grateful for that. And that's where, yeah, you guys check it out.

Yeah, totally. That's fantastic. Yeah, podcasting, it's such a fun medium because it's like, and just listening, because you get, you feel like you get to know someone really well by hearing their voice and listening to their stories, very different than if you're just reading their words or, or, or even watching a video for some reason.

Yeah. Yeah. That's probably what hooked me into it because after a while you just kind of look forward to like some people just, you know, I try to drop my shows every Tuesday and it's like, oh, it's Tuesday. I'm going to listen to my favorite show. And it's like, yeah, you get that, you get that connection. And it's just, yeah, it's just something cool about consuming the podcast. I had no idea that I would be doing what I'm doing, but it's like, hey, I think I might like that. And, you know, Here we are.

There you go. Super. Jason, thanks so much for your time today. Really appreciate this. It's been a fun conversation, and I think our audience is really going to enjoy it as well as they can learn about the differences between hunting on the Midwest or the East Coast versus out, out west and how they can kind of get into that. So thank you so much.

The pleasure is all mine. Thanks again for having me.

And thank you everyone for listening. And until next time, stay wild.

Thanks for listening to the Rewild Gear Podcast. You can check out the show notes for today's episode at rewildgearpodcast.com. If you're ready to spend more time in the wild, our line of high-quality, minimalistic outdoor gear can help you do just that. Check us out at rewildgear.com.