Ep 38: Patrick Schaefer on the Outdoors & Hunting

Welcome to the Rewild Gear Podcast. Modern life, society, and responsibilities have domesticated us, but now it's time to rediscover your adventurous side. Whether that's camping, hiking, hunting, fishing, or just spending time in the great outdoors, this is the podcast for you. Join us as we get back to the wilderness and rewild. Welcome to the Adventure Made Podcast, brought to you by Rewild Gear. I'm your host, Seth Spears, and I'm here today with Patrick Schaefer. Patrick is a husband, stepfather, and a fireman holding the rank of battalion chief, an avid outdoorsman, and a DIY public land hunter who spends regular time in the wilderness of Texas, Colorado, and Alaska. Patrick, welcome to the show. Thank you.

Glad to be here.

Yeah, great. Well, love to kind of get a little bit of background story on you. Who you are, what you do, why the wilderness is so important to you. Let's start from there.

All right. Well, so I kind of grew up, you know, hunting, well, hunting and fishing. The first thing I really kind of got into was fishing. And I mean, like I said, I can still remember catching my first fish where I was at. I don't know the name of it, but I can picture the little worm that I was using. I could see the colors, but I don't remember what they called it back then. And, uh—

How old were you?

Oh, I had to be probably 6 or 7. So, uh, but it's kind of, uh, you know, and I had older brothers and they were real big outdoorsmen and I, my dad hunted, but I never got a chance to hunt with him. I know we went to the deer lease a couple times. Like, I have some vague memories of being in like a deer camp or deer trailer or shack or whatever it was. But, uh, I don't know if I ever actually sat in a deer stand with him or not. If I did, I don't remember that. But—

You were young.

Yeah. So, but I know we had whitetail mounts hanging up in the house and all that stuff. So shoulder mounts. So I know he hunted.

Yeah.

But, uh, So, for me, the outdoors has just been kind of my way to get away, clear my head. You know, I mean, when you're out there fishing, it's kind of— or fishing or hunting and watching the world come alive, you kind of see everything from a different point of view. And, it makes you realize that, you know, everybody has the argument of— or not everybody, but some people have the argument of whether God's real or not or whether we came from this. And, I just look at everything and I'm like, There's no way this just happened. Like, there's just too much the way everything works and how everything operates and functions, and there's no way it just happens without something being part of it. So, but so spending time outdoors has just kind of been my way to clear my head, and then I started seeing pictures of different things, and I wanted to go, you know. go see those things, not just see it in a picture. I wanted to see it myself. And everybody always says, you know, you take a picture or something, you try to show it to somebody like, oh, the pictures don't do it justice. And so it's nice to be there to see those things and go, yeah, you're right, that picture doesn't do this justice. So— I hear that.

That's, that's one of my favorite things hunting is getting out into a stand early in the morning and And just watching nature wake up.

Yeah.

You can just see, you hear the birds start to chirp. Usually you hear the squirrels first. You know, you hear them start to chirp just a little bit. They start scurrying around. You can, you can just tell they all do it about the same time. And it's a cool experience just to really watch the world awaken. And that's something that a lot of people don't get to see. So as hunters, you know, we're privy to something that is It's been happening for time eternal, really. But a lot of people in their everyday life, they don't really get to see that. So it's a cool experience.

Right. Yeah. And that's so, you know, and it was funny because when I was a kid hunting, it was always about shooting something, you know, and that was what was important. It was, oh man, I saw, I shot a deer or I saw a deer. But then as I kind of got older and You know, going through what I went through as growing up, you know, it kind of changed my perspective on everything, and I really started to just appreciate what I was looking at. I mean, there were times that I would go sit in a deer stand and just, you know, watch the deer. And I mean, I could have shot one if I wanted to, but it was just so much fun to just watch them interact and do their thing, and squirrels coming in and then chasing the squirrels off and chasing the birds off that are landing, and just. Just the different things. It's like almost watching a bunch of kids play, you know? And it was just kind of— it was cool to just sit back and watch it sometimes. And I was happy with that. I was okay at that point in time. I was happy getting out of the stand and going back to camp and saying, yeah, you know, I saw 8 deer and I watched this and our— I watched these 2 young bucks start fighting each other. And I'm just seeing all that kind of stuff was just awesome to me. And it became more about nature and not so much about killing or, you know.

Yeah, there's a reason they call it hunting and not shooting, because half the time you're not even gonna see anything, right?

The same thing with fishing. I mean, that's why they call it fishing and not catching. And so both of those I've just learned. And it was funny because I grew up, you know, the first fish I ever caught was a black bass, and then I bass fished for a little while, and then When my stepdad came into the picture, uh, we started saltwater fishing. That's what he did. And then my buddy from high school, he saltwater fishes. And so him and I own a boat together, and that's kind of what I did. And I got away from freshwater fishing, and I went through this stage where it was like, oh, the only real fishing is saltwater fishing, and there's nothing else out there. And so Now I've gotten to the point where I just enjoy fishing.

Yeah.

Like, I don't care. And I like the challenge of, you know, looking for different spots on the lake to try to go see if there's fish there, looking for, you know, uh, and same thing with hunting, like trying to figure out, hey, where are these deer gonna come, or where are these elk coming from, why are they gonna funnel through here? And, uh, you know, going to Alaska and doing all that kind of stuff, it just became more about being in— out being outdoors, being in nature, and just not having to worry about anything else. Nothing else matters, you know. If you, you throw that, you know, you cast out there and you set the hook and the fish gets off, well then you just cast back out there and try again. And the only person to be mad at you is you. And if you don't want to be mad about it, then you don't have to be mad about it. Same thing hunting. If you shoot and miss, well then hey, you know what, there's always next time.

Yeah, exactly. I want to get into some of your, uh, hunting experiences in a minute, but you mentioned something earlier that I want to kind of refer back to. You said what you had been through growing up. I'd love to dig into your origin story there because I know when we've talked offline before just how nature has played into a lot of that and your experience.

Right. So, yeah. So, my dad passed away when I was 8. And so, being a fireman now, as a kid, I didn't really understand what was going on. In my mind, my dad was sick. He was in the hospital. And then he came home, and nothing against— like, they told me, hey, you know, your dad's coming home to get better. I now know that they sent my dad home on hospice, basically. And that was, you know, for lack of a better way to put it, they sent him home to die. I mean, I know it sounds bad, but that's, you know, the truth behind it. But as a kid, I didn't understand that. I knew, hey, you go to the hospital, you see doctors, you get better. That's the only thing I knew. And if we were dealing with that, which I've kind of dealt with that with my wife's grandmother and our 2 kids, and I didn't really tell them, oh, hey, she's about to die. We just kind of tried to, you know, we didn't really talk about it. We just said, hey, she's sick. And, you know, hopefully she's got, you know, she had cancer or whatever. So my dad had cancer, but again, I thought he was gonna get better. Well, he ends up passing away and You know, as the kid, everybody shows up. So my dad's uncles are my dad. They're my uncles, my dad's brothers. All these people are showing up. Well, everybody's trying to keep me occupied because I'm the eight-year-old kid that just lost his dad. So everybody's showing me attention. So for me, it was a huge family reunion. We were going and doing things and hanging out and doing all kinds of stuff. And so you kind of move through that. Well, my mom was a stay-at-home mom, so. Everybody's there for everything, and then everybody— the funeral happens, and then everybody leaves. And so it was me and my mom and my sister. Uh, my brothers were around, and I talked to them, but most of them were in the military, so they were stationed throughout the country, whether it was, you know, DC or North Carolina or wherever they happened to be at the time. And then my one brother lived in Spring, which was where I lived at the time. So I kind of went from an 8-year-old kid to an 18-year-old kid in a matter of a few weeks because my mom was a stay-at-home mom. Well, now she had to go to work, so she started going to work. And, uh, you know, because back then, you know, you could do a one-income household and make it, you know, if things weren't like they were now where it's a lot harder to be a one-income household. But So now she's like, okay, well, I'm going to go to school and I'm going to get a job. And she was always there for us. And I would really, if I could find her bosses that worked for her, because she worked at Kmart part-time and then went to school when she could.

Wow.

And if I could call her bosses and say, hey, y'all are really awesome for not firing my mom for the fact that her son was calling up there every 30 minutes to an hour. If a storm rolled through, I thought I was going to die in a tornado. So I was calling her on the phone and So anyway, so I had to go from like an 8-year-old kid to an 18-year-old kid because my mom was at work. So I had to come home from school. I could go outside and play with my friends. Well, when the streetlights came on, even though there was nobody there to tell me to get inside, I went inside. I had to do my homework. I had to make myself take a shower. I had to, you know, cook my own dinner sometimes. And, you know, my sister was there and we knew all the neighbors and everybody kind of looked out for each other and they were all looking out for me even though I didn't always see them. Mm-hmm. But it was just kind of different. So I grew up at a really young age because that's what I— that's all I knew. And then, you know, my stepdad came in the picture and we went and did a lot of hunting and fishing and I learned a lot. I hunted on a deer lease with like 30 guys and there were a lot of older guys on there and You know, they were kind of like your family, and so they were teaching you different things or whatever. And you know, so as things kind of went on, you know, I started getting older, and I I started volunteering as a fireman when I was seventeen. And originally, I wanted to go in the military and be a pilot. So I started volunteering as a fireman, and I decided that you know, I wasn't going in the military because nobody was going to tell me what time I had to be. at work, what I was going to wear, when I could eat lunch, when I was going to wake up, go to bed, and all that kind of stuff. And which, if anybody knows the fire service, that's kind of how the fire service is to an extent. You got uniforms and, you know, they don't necessarily tell you when you can eat, but, you know, if somebody calls 911 in the middle of lunch, you got to go.

You're going.

And so, they tell you what time you got to be at work, when to wake up, when you can go to bed, stuff like that. So, But it was fun for me, uh, because it was something different. And no matter what you were doing, you could go to— you were helping people. And it was nice to go into a store one day and see a guy that just called 911 3 weeks before, and I loaded him in an ambulance, and now he's walking around the store.

Hmm.

So he made it, and I played a part in him, however minor it may have been or whatever. I played a part in that. Or driving by houses that were still standing or seeing the people getting their house fixed and now they're back living in it because we got there and put the fire out before it burned their whole house down. So it became rewarding and everything was different and it wasn't the same old sitting behind a desk reading the same emails from the same people saying the same stuff. I mean, it was all different. And so my stepdad and I didn't exactly see eye to eye when I got older. And, uh, he's, he's since passed away. And so I'm not gonna go into too much there because I don't want to talk ill of the dead. But, uh, so I moved out. I decided in high school that being a fireman was what I wanted to do. And so, uh, my senior year of high school, I went and got my EMT basic. And then I graduated high school, jumped right into fire school. Took off and, uh, kind of went through all that. And then, uh, you know, I started working and I was, I mean, I pretty much lived at the fire station. I mean, the guys put a mailbox out back and wrote my name on it because I was always there. And, uh, you know, so my stepdad and I kind of have our little falling out and I move out of the house and, you know, and I told my mom, I was like, hey, look, I want you to be happy. If you're happy, awesome. I love you. I'm not mad at you. But I'm out of here. So I moved in for a little bit with a guy that's actually that I still work with named John. So I lived with him, and at some point everything just kind of came crashing down. I don't know what exactly the turning point was for me, but it just things got rough. And I was depressed. I went and saw a counselor and, you know, like I told you before, he tried to tell me I was mad at my dad for dying. And at the time, that's not what I wanted to hear. And I got mad and quit going. And I don't think it was necessarily his— I mean, I think I understand now what he was trying to get at, but it just wasn't sitting right with a 20-year-old or 19. At the time I was 19, a 19-year-old kid.

Little ego there, huh?

Right. Yeah. Like, you're not going to tell me that I'm mad at him because in my mind, I wasn't mad at him. You know, I wasn't upset that he left. Like, I didn't, you know, and anyways, so yeah, you weren't going to tell me that was the case. And so I quit going and, you know, and the thing was when I split from my stepdad, like hunting and fishing is what him and I did together. And now I wasn't doing that anymore.

Ah.

And so, uh, anyways, so I was kind of, like I said, upset, and I kind of went through a state of depression. And I— everybody would tell me to go seek counseling. I had people tell me to go get on medication, and I was just like, no, I'm gonna figure this out. I'm not gonna take a pill. Nothing against people that need medication for any of that. I mean, I know people that do, and it helps them function, but I wasn't gonna do that. Again, a little stubborn 19-year-old. So, I mean, it was tough. And I think, and I was good during the day when I was talking to people. The problem was, was at night when everybody'd go to bed and it was just me and my thoughts and everything just ran through my head and I could never, I couldn't sleep. And then I'd finally fall asleep and I'd be so exhausted that my alarm would go off and I'd never hear it. And then I'd wake up, show up late to work and You know, fortunately for me, I work for a chief who actually cares. It's not about—you're not just a number with him. You really are like family. And he knew the kid that he saw show up at 17 years old wasn't the same 19-year-old he was looking at now, and he knew something was wrong. So he called me in his office, and I thought that I was just going in there to get. Written up and all that, and then you know I was just going to walk out the door. So he sits me down and he's like, "All right, sign this right here," and it was a write-up, and I sign it, and he closes the book and slides it across the desk. He's like, "Okay, I don't care about that anymore. What's going on with you?" And I'm like, "Nothing, I'm good." And he's like, "No, you're not. Something's wrong with you. What is it?" He's like, "You're not. This is not the kid we know. Something's going on. Start talking to me." Well. John was in there with me, or I say, talk to the back. Another guy was in there with me, but John had kind of, I talked to him a little bit and he kind of started picking up on what was going on. And John had mentioned something to the chief. So the chief goes, hey, I know it sucks not having a dad. And, or something along those lines. And I just kind of lost it. And then I just started talking. I just started spilling everything that I was thinking about. And he's actually the one that recommended going to counseling. And so I went to counseling and he decided to work with me. And then, and a couple of the other people that were there too, a guy named Colby, I ended up getting put on a shift with him and him and I had kind of had similar things with losing our fathers at a young age. So we kind of bonded and just had a good time. And, you know, and there were still some speed bumps along the way, but they were willing to, it's like, hey, it's okay. As long as you keep pushing forward, it's okay to have a hiccup every now and then. In my mind, the way I was is as soon as one little thing went wrong, it was the end of the world. It was all done. It was all crashing down. So in my mind, I was climbing that ladder and as soon as one rung broke, I was falling all the way back down to the bottom of the hole. And instead of going, no, hey man, you can just skip that rung and keep climbing up. And so So I kind of started, you know, moving forward from there. And my buddy Craig got out of the Marine Corps and we started fishing together and we decided to buy a boat together. And then I ended up getting on a deer lease in Centerville and I started hunting up in Centerville. My buddy and I bought this boat together and we were fishing down on the coast a lot. And we were also going down there quite a bit before he got out. If he came home on leave, we would go to the coast and go fishing. And so things just kind of started picking up. And I know I told you I was offline, so kind of back up a little bit. What kind of got me out of it was I went to church with John and his wife Holly. And when the preacher preached for that sermon, It was almost like I took everything that was bothering me, wrote it down on a piece of paper, and gave it to him. And in fact, I almost asked John, like, hey man, did you have a conversation with the preacher before I showed up? Like, when there was a lot of people that went to this church, so it was kind of like there's no way they did that just for me. And so it made me realize that, hey, there's a lot more to all this, and There is somebody up there that cares, and being a Christian myself, I you know realized that hey, you know what? He's there, and if you need him, he'll be there to help guide you. He's always there. You just gotta ask him for, and so that kind of really changed everything. It was like a light switch. Like it's I went from being like sad and upset and depressed, and I mean people would call me to go hang out. I'd be like, oh man, I'm working because back then nobody really knew. So I could, I would be sitting at the house doing absolutely nothing, but I'd tell people I was working and it was like a switch. And all of a sudden I was back. I was back to that happy guy. And, you know, things just, I kind of started realizing different things and I started getting back into the outdoors. And, you know, like I said, when something would happen, I would like, I had girlfriends break up with me. I'd load up in a truck, drive to Aransas Pass and spend 3 days down there fishing. And it didn't matter. Like none of that mattered anymore because I was out there fishing. I was having a good time, and I kind of realized that hey, you know, I have the ability. You know, I mean ultimately to me God's in control of your life, but I have some control over what happens. So if I want to be happy, I can go do these things. I work hard. I'm making better money. Things are picking up. Things are moving in the right direction. So if I want to go fishing, go fishing. If I want to go hunting, go hunting. Like I don't need anybody else out there to tell me that I can't do something. Like that's great. He can have whatever opinion he wants to have of me. I have the ability to keep going and and be happy. And so and and that was when everything changed. Like and then I. Said, sitting in the deer stand, I would just sit there and watch the world come alive and be like, man, this is really awesome. And the, you know, the squirrels and the birds. And, uh, I don't know if you've ever hunted around armadillos, but when an armadillo walks through the woods, it sounds like an elephant's coming. So if you're sitting there and you're like, oh man, something big's coming, you're looking around and all of a sudden this little bitty armadillo pops out and you're like, how does something so small make that much noise? But, uh, And so one day I was actually driving back from Aransas Pass, and we had been down there fishing, had a great weekend. And it dawned on me that as much as it sucked that my dad passed away, if my dad hadn't passed away, my whole life as I know it right now would be completely different. And, you know, and I was 22, 23 years old at this point in time, and so I mean, from 8 to 23, let's just say, is how long it took me to finally let go of my dad passing away. And because maybe I'd have never moved to Conroe and then I wouldn't have met my buddy Craig and I wouldn't have known the guy Cody that I wouldn't have met a guy named Jeremy who got me into the fire service, which, so all this stuff happened when I moved to Conroe. And so it was kind of the whole, hey man, everything happens for a reason. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. And I just kind of went on with it and I've kind of tried to always live life that way and, and realize that it's okay to fail. Uh, like I'm going to steal a line from a movie, but you know, it's, you know, to hit the coveted .300 in baseball, you fail 7 out of 10 times.

Yep.

But if you hit a .300, if you had a .300 career batting average, you're probably going to the Hall of Fame as one of the greatest ever. And you failed 7 out of 10 times. And so when I kind of approached everything that way, and it's like, it's okay to fail. It's okay to slip up and make a mistake as long as you try to learn from it and move forward. You know, everybody always makes the joke that, you know, one bad mistake can mess up a whole bunch of attaboys. And I try not to look at it that way. And, you know, even with my kids sometimes, and I have to catch myself because sometimes I want to get mad at them about something and I have to step back and go, hey, They didn't do it on purpose. They made a mistake. So go talk to them about it and let's move on from there. And so we got the boat. My buddy's dad bought land in Colorado and then we just kind of went from there. We've been, I mean, duck hunting, deer hunting, elk hunting. I just went caribou hunting. I hiked 2/3 of the way up to Mount Blanca in Colorado and proposed to my wife.

Wow.

The plan was to go all the way to the top, but we had a bunch of kids with us and everything else, and they couldn't quite make it that far. So finally I was just like, all right, man. And we— it was the whole deal. And I was like, all right, man, uh, just find a place to hide, or let's just find a place to do this and just with a good view and everything else. So we went and found this little area and hid the ring. And, uh, my buddy Craig was part of it and We hid the ring, and of course my wife walks right past the ring. My daughter was supposed to go, hey Mom, what is this? And she didn't. She got her phone out and was trying to film, but it actually ended up working out really good. And so I proposed, and, uh, which is cool because now every time I go hunting in Colorado, I get to— that's to the north of us, so that's kind of one of our landmarks when we're out there hiking around. So I kind of get to see that spot every time we're up there. But My goal is still one day to make it to the top of that thing.

Nice. You know what I'm hearing through all of this? Um, and I think one of the biggest lessons, it sounds like you had some good mentors that really helped you in your time of need.

For sure.

And I think that's something that a lot of people, when they're struggling, they think that they have to do it alone. You know, they have to be the Lone Ranger that tries to pick themselves up by the bootstraps or whatever. And as men, that's something that we I don't know if we're programmed to do that or what, but maybe it's our ego that gets in the way. We're like, we can do it all. But, you know, there's nothing wrong with asking for help. And I think that's a great lesson there as far as if you're struggling, if you need something, ask for help. And, you know, not all the time just like place everything on someone else, but—

Right.

When there's something you need, you're struggling emotionally, mentally, whatever, getting assistance or someone that you can, you can lean on. Just, you know, so we've got each other's backs. So I think that's a great life lesson there.

Oh, for sure. And that's one thing I'll tell people is sometimes you— I had people the whole time. I was just too stubborn to realize, honestly. I mean, there were people there for me and I was just too stubborn to go, hey man, I need help. Same thing, like you said, like I'm going to do all this on my own. But that experience has helped me out because now when I have a guy at work or in life it doesn't have to necessarily be at work, but, and they all of a sudden start faltering, you know, or fading from where they were. It's real easy for everybody to jump to conclusions, be like, oh, well, this guy's lazy. Let's just get rid of him. But, you know, you might be the only thing holding that person together. And that was for me. The only thing holding me together was the fire department. I was doing everything in the world to mess it up.

Hmm.

But, because I didn't care if I ended up living under a bridge or something like that, it really didn't matter to me. I was never like a Told you before, I was never suicidal, but I just I didn't care anymore. And luckily, there was somebody else there that did care and said, "Look, I care. I know you truly care, and I'm fixing to help do whatever I got to do to make you start caring again." Basically, and that's not how he said it. And and to this day, a long time ago, I wrote him a letter telling him thank you. And you know, he was kind of like, "I got your letter. I appreciate it. I don't really know what I did." And it's like. Man, you saved me. And I know you don't think you did, but you did.

I think often it's times where we're just being human and just reaching out, not even thinking anything of it. It's those little things that can make all the difference in the world because you never know how something that you do is going to affect someone's life in a major positive way. And it's just trying to be as cognizant as possible at all times in day-to-day life where you might be tempted just to walk on by a person. Smile at them, say hi. And that might make a world of difference to someone. You just never know.

Oh, for sure. And, you know, and like I say, you know, I let go of my dad passing away. I mean, I still have moments that I miss him. I mean, when I got promoted to lieutenant and, you know, I would have loved to have been able to call him and go, because I mean, I studied for 3 months and read 3 different books and had to test against some other people. And I would have loved to have been able to pick the phone up and go, Dad, guess what? You know, or when I shoot a shot a nice buck, or I shot my first elk. You know, a lot of these things that I've got to do, or hey Dad, man, I proposed to my wife, or hey, I'm gonna propose. You know, and just all those things. And my buddy's dad, you know, he's he stepped up, and he's kind of been there for me through a lot of stuff, and I really appreciate that, and I'll never. I'll never forget it as long as I live. And he's, I mean, he's the closest thing I have to a dad, but there's still times when my buddies are going hunting with their dad and they're going on a trip and it's just them. And I step back or I sit around with my brothers and I listen to them tell stories about our dad. And I'm going, I don't have any of this. Like, I don't know any of that stuff. I never got to experience that. I have some memories of him that were good. I don't have any bad memories of my dad. Uh, but it's a lot of that stuff. And so sometimes, you know, I get with my buddies, like sometimes I'm trying to, I get a little pushy sometimes when it comes to their dad. And I'm like, hey man, I said, no man, we got to go do this. We got to do this. And, and I know it's, and to them sometimes it's like, well man, it's just, I got to do this or I got to do that. And I'm like, I get it, man. But And even my buddy said it to me, like, one day we're gonna wish he was here to do this. We wish he would be here to annoy us, whether it's driving up to Colorado and having to stop at 12 different restrooms or something like that, you know. It's just— and, and so sometimes with— I'm that way with him too, is I'm kind of pushing. I was like, look, man, because there's going to come a day where he's not going to be here and you're going to wish he was.

Yeah.

And you got to take in all those moments that you can, because I know what it's like to not be able to experience any of those moments. So, but, you know, like I said, it kind of made me a stronger person. And, you know, like I said, my buddy's dad's been there for me and he's, you know, I can call him anytime for anything. And, you know, he's treated me like they joke around and call me the adopted son. And that's kind of what they've treated. I mean, they've treated me like their own kid and, you know, it means a lot.

But, and you get to be that father to your own sons that you didn't have.

Exactly. And so, and that's what I, you know, I try to do and I try not to, I try to give them good experiences. And, you know, sometimes, like I said, sometimes I have to catch myself and be like, hey man, you wouldn't have liked that when you were a kid. So, you know, hey, they're not trying to intentionally tear this up. It was an accident. So go talk to him about, hey, it's okay to tell me you broke something. If it was an— I mean, it was an accident. You broke it on accident. So come talk to me and we'll get it fixed. But don't wait for me to walk in the room a few days later and find a broken doorknob and go, what happened here? So just own up to it. You weren't trying to intentionally tear the house up. You just thought what you were doing was okay and it broke the doorknob. So we'll get you a new doorknob and it's no big deal. But like I said, we— I've had a lot of fun. I mean, I've, I've been bonefishing in Hawaii now, uh, with a fly rod, which was a lot of work. I ended up having to use a spinning rod to catch my bonefish because I'd never used a fly rod before. And he's trying to tell you to cast it this direction and cast at 3 o'clock at 30 feet. And I was— And he's like, no, wait, wait, now it's over here at 1 o'clock. And so now I'm throwing at 9 o'clock instead of 1 o'clock. And Finally, I was like, just give me a spinning rod. I can't do fly fishing. So I have done more fly fishing since then up in Colorado and caught some a few fish, and it's been fun. And but you know, like I said, just going out in nature and it's just being out there and just enjoying all of it, everything there is, and it doesn't matter where it's at. And you know, now I see pictures sometimes on my phone, and I'll take a screenshot of it or. Hey, this is such and such national park in Montana, and I'll take a screenshot. And like one day I'm going to go there because I want to see that. And you know, I've tried to just do better about everything. I you know, when I was a kid, we would take our Coke cans and toss them in the woods. And when you were out there fishing, you'd break them up and drop them in the water because hey, barnacles are going to grow on it, and fish are going to live inside the can. And And so now I, I look back on all that and I was like, why are we throwing all this stuff in the ocean and, or in any lakes, bodies of water out in the woods or whatever? And it's just kind of, people don't care. And I get onto my own kids now. My kid will be walking, he'll drop a wrapper on the ground. Like, hey, pick that up. We don't, you know.

What brought about that transformation for you going from just not caring or just littering or throwing something in the water to realizing What we're actually doing as far as pollution and everything else?

Well, what really started for me was we started, we used to go, or we go to the Frio River every year. We haven't in the last couple years, but, uh, and you'd be on this remote piece of the river and there's nothing around. There's no houses, no nothing. And right in the middle of the river is a beer can. And then a little bit, there's a plastic bottle and then there's another Coke can. And I kind of, you know, we'd always stop and pick them up and then You know, we'd get up here and up in Colorado and you'd go out in the middle of the, what you think is a remote area and there's trash. And it's like, uh, like why, why is there trash out here? Like why are people dumping their junk out here? And, you know, I kind of just started thinking about, well, what if everybody kept doing this? I mean, I'm finding trash way out here in the middle of nowhere. Eventually, people are going to keep on doing it. And then what happens? You know, we're going to have so much trash everywhere and all this stuff that's supposed to be, you know, this natural land has been destroyed by humans. And I'm not, you know, I'm not trying to say everybody needs to drive electric cars and, you know, all this crazy stuff. But I feel like there are things that we should do to take care of the environment better. And a lot of things, like, I know, I can't think of, but the deepest spot in the ocean that they found, I can't remember the name of it, but they found a piece of plastic down in the bottom of that. Like, the deepest spot in the ocean has already been polluted, that we know of anyways, has already been polluted by man. And so now when I'm out, no matter what I'm doing, I always try to pick trash up. Like, I even bought a little Trash bag deal to carry with me when I go hunting. So when I'm out walking around, I can pick it up. Like we were up in Alaska when our caribou hunt, we found gloves laying out in the middle and we picked them up. And you know, it's some of it like when it ices over, they get into big track vehicles and they just go driving across the tundra to different towns or whatever the case may be. So it might have fallen off of one, but still you're in the middle of. an area that nobody goes to and there's a glove laying on the ground and it's like, so I just, I got more into leaving it how it's supposed to be in this natural state of mind. Like we can go there and visit and see the things that we can see, but we can also leave it. And if possible, try to leave it better than I found it.

For sure. Yeah, for sure. Patrick, how do you balance family, work, and spending time Hunting and fishing? Oh, well, it can be tough.

Uh, I work a lot, but I— so I try to plan things out and, you know, try to make time for everything and make time for the kids and the wife. And fortunately, my wife enjoys hunting and fishing. My son, uh, really enjoys fishing, and my daughter used to, but now she's getting older, so fishing's not quite as cool as it used to be. But she does enjoy, you know, going to Colorado and hiking and stuff like that. She's not— she doesn't really like hunting. So I just had to try to make time. And I've had to tell myself that, you know, it's not always about chasing the almighty dollar. Sometimes you got to set stuff aside for yourself and for your family to go spend time with them and Try to plan things. You know, hey, let's go fishing or let's go hiking or let or whatever we want to go do. And so it's been a tough balance, especially before I was married and had kids. It was just me. So I just go, go, go, go, go. Cool. I'm gonna take off these two weeks and take off. And so now, you know, I kind of have to luckily, like I said, my wife enjoys all those things. So it makes it easier because I can say, hey, we're gonna go duck hunting. She's like, okay. And then we can load up and go duck hunting together. Or nice. Hey, let's go fishing. And they Let's get— they get in the boat and they want to go fishing. So, and like I said, they enjoyed the hiking and all that kind of stuff. And it's been a lot of fun. We've had a lot of fun for sure.

Is there anything specifically that you're doing to encourage your kids to enjoy the outdoors, or has that just come natural to them?

It's just come natural. Like for me, like I look at a lot of these things that I never did as a kid. And again, nothing against my parents. It's just not what we did. So, you know, like going to, I mean, I never saw the mountains of Colorado till I was 22 years old. So, I mean, other than driving to Georgia, which those mountains are all covered in trees.

Little different.

But yeah. So what I've tried to do is all the things that I thought were, that I've seen as an adult that I think are cool. I try to get them out to see it now so that they go see all these things and they, and they enjoy it. And so luckily for me, it's kind of come natural for them to enjoy those kind of things. Like, uh, Jake, my son, he kind of liked fishing, but he was also one that he would go fish and then bring his iPad and he'd want to play on his iPad and he'd fish for a little bit. So for him, we actually went fishing when the fish were spawning, so you could see them on the beds. And so I was kind of helping him flip, and he would flip it and drag the worm through the bed, and then you could watch the fish eat it and you set the hook. Well, once that happened, he was hooked.

Yeah.

So for that part, he was just like, oh man, this is awesome, I love it. And so now he wants to go fishing all the time. And, uh, we've gone a couple other times and he's caught some really— some good fish, and he's had fun. And so now he's He loves fishing almost as much as I do. But, but a lot of it, you know, my wife was also really into that stuff too. So the kids have always kind of grown up in that environment. So, and I don't force them. I mean, like my, my daughter doesn't like, she eats meat, but she doesn't want to be the one to kill the meat.

Sure.

So, which is fine. And I've told her that and I was like, hey, if you ever change your mind, you know what to do. You just come let me know and we'll go do whatever you want to do. And if you don't ever want to hunt a day in your life, you don't have to. But I'm still gonna hunt as long as you understand that. But, uh, so, but she enjoys, you know, she, like I said, she likes to eat meat and all that. She just doesn't want to shoot it. So I can handle that.

Totally. Yeah. Patrick, what's the biggest life lesson that nature and the outdoors have taught you over the years?

Oh man. Well, I mean, really just that, uh, You know, kind of like I was going back to earlier was, you know, it's okay to, it's okay to fail. Like it's okay to mess up. You know, it's okay to lose a fish. It's okay to miss. I mean, obviously you don't want to wound, but you know, it's okay to miss and all right. Hey, you know what? I'll try better next time. Like, hey, I don't know what happened. Well, I was, I was nervous and so I was shaking too much or whatever. Hey, I just, I didn't feel comfortable and. Uh, you know, you just, you learn from it. And that's kind of the same way in life is, you know, I got out, you know, the first time I bow hunted, the first deer I went to shoot, I shot right over the top of it. And I was like, how did that happen? Like, how do I miss? How do I— I was aimed. And so—

Buck fever.

Right. Well, and I really, I don't even think I was nervous. And so, because I, as I got older, one thing I always tried to do was not focus on the size. Like, I just kind of Like in Texas, we have a 13-inch or better rule. So the antlers have to have a 13-inch spread or better. And so what you look at is, are the antlers outside the ears when the ears are in the alert position? So what I try to do is I would, I'd have the deer come out, I'd grunt at it or whatever to get it to turn its head and look at me. I'd be like, yep, that's a shooter. And I would shoot. Like I tried not to think about how big it was or anything like that so that I would never get buck fever. And I would say 75% of the time that's worked. There's been a few times where I'm like, oh my gosh. And so, uh, like I had one, one time I'd actually already shot my deer for the season and I was just kind of hunting and sitting there looking for hogs or whatever. And I had this buck walk out that was so big that I started shaking with buck fever. And I was like, I can't even shoot this thing and I'm still shaking. And it was a nice deer. And but, you know, I just kind of had to watch it walk around and go off in the distance. But, but yeah, so that was kind of the biggest, I'd say the biggest lesson is, you know, it's okay to make a mistake and learn from them and move on because nothing happened. It's just you. And it's all, it's all how hard you are on yourself. And, you know, with all that kind of stuff, for the most part, 5, 10 years from now, nobody, I mean, obviously, if you made a big enough mistake, they might remember, but The little stuff that everybody has, the little you know pitfalls and trips and everything else that you have in life, you know they don't. If you don't beat yourself up over it, at the end of the day it's not going to matter. Like I don't remember. I mean, unless I sit down and talk about it when I was going through all the crap that I was going through, I don't even really remember all the mistakes I made back then because I've moved on from it. So it's kind of the same thing like with fishing. Like hey, I don't remember every fish I've ever lost. Now you might remember the big one, or you might remember the really big buck that you shot. Shot at and missed, but how many other misses have you had that you forgot about? Or, you know, you sit down and tell your buddies, oh man, I missed a big buck this morning. Well, 10 years from now, your buddies are probably going to forget about that. They're just going to remember all the nice ones you've killed since then or all the other stuff that's happening. So, uh, and that's like I said, so that's kind of what just realizing that you can get out there, you can get away from everything, all the stresses and everything still operates like normal. I mean, you get away from the COVID and all the politics and everything else and all the other crap going on, and you just go out into the wild and watch everything come to life, and everything works a certain way. And, you know, the sun comes and helps this grow, and this happens and that happens, and, you know.

Yeah, Patrick, so you've been hunting out in Colorado and Alaska a bit. Uh, tell me a little bit, uh, about those experiences and how you would differentiate them. Um, what's the main differences that you've experience in those 2 different states and vastly different environments?

Yeah. So, so the difference is they are both tough because, you know, obviously Colorado, you get up into the elevation and, you know, you start trying to walk around it. You take off running 100 yards at 12,000 feet. You don't, you run out of breath pretty quick, but, you know, you have a lot of sage bushes where we're at and then there's rocks and you're You're up and down mountains and through little canyons and everything else. And so, you know, you, you spot some elk off in the distance and then you're trying to figure out how you're gonna get over there to 'em. And, you know, in, in our spot where we've been hunting, there's a lot of other people hunting. So sometimes our elk gets spooked by other people. And so that's been kind of a learning process too. And, but you still, you know, like I said, you have the cold, you have the elevation, uh, you know, but where we're at, we have a camp set up and we have heaters and showers and bathrooms and we cook food. We sit around, we run generators, we watch football and all kinds of other stuff. Well, Alaska. So in Alaska, you don't have the elevation, but you have the tundra. And for people that don't know what the tundra is, like, it's like walking on a sponge. And every time you step, the water seeps through. So everything's wet all the time. And then you have these little round, like half basketballs that are called tussocks and they're everywhere. So the problem is if you walk in the valley, there's no tussocks, but it's full of water and there's standing water just everywhere. And sometimes it's knee deep, sometimes it's thigh deep. So then you think, oh, well, I'll walk up on this ridge. Well, then you get up to the ridge and there's all the tussocks. And so you can't— and it's not like there's one here and then there's another one 5 feet. I mean, they're almost touching.

Pick your poison.

Right. And there's just little gaps that are sometimes barely wide enough for your foot. So you're trying to, you know, walk through there and walk through all this stuff. And, you know, where we were at, we were Like our camp was 25 miles south of the Arctic Ocean. And so we were, I mean, at the very north end of Alaska. They flew us in there on an airplane and they drop you off. You have your tent, your sleeping bag, gun, your gear. And they say, all right, we'll see you in 8 days.

And this was a DIY hunt or you had a guide?

No, this was DIY. So the only thing you have is it's an air taxi basically. And they fly you out, drop you off on a lake, unload your gear. Now you are in contact with them, so they kind of talk to each other and communicate with each other, or all the different hunters that are out there, and they kind of see where the caribou are moving. So because obviously the more people that shoot caribou, the more people that want to use them and all that, but they're not guiding. And actually, in and I don't know if there's any other states this way, but Alaska this way, the day you fly in. You're not allowed to hunt. Yeah, I've always—

tell me about that rule. I've always heard that, and that's so weird to me.

I don't— I didn't ever actually ask why, but in my mind, the only thing that makes sense is what they don't want. Because there's so many little lakes, you could just fly around in a plane, find a herd of caribou, set down on a lake, jump out, go shoot them, and then leave. And they could just be doing like day hunts like that if they really wanted to. So I think what they try to do is give it a little bit more of a fair chase. Like, they're going to drop you off, but you can't technically hunt until— like, we landed at— I don't know if it's like 12 hours or 24 hours or how— it can't be 24 because I think we got out to the field at probably 1 o'clock in the afternoon and they told us we could start hunting at 3 o'clock in the morning.

Whoa. Okay.

So it may have been like a 12-hour— maybe we landed at 3 o'clock in the afternoon and it was just a 12-hour deal. But which is fine because the first day you get out there, you're setting up camp. You're, you know, we had to go down and get water. We set up pretty close to a river, so we went down to the river and we used, uh, like the Katadyn water filters and filtered our water. And, uh, you know, we kind of scouted. We saw some caribou. And so with caribou, the other difference is male and female caribou both have antlers. Ah. So when you're hunting, and we're only allowed to shoot the bull caribou. So, uh, like with an elk, obviously elk and whitetail mule deer, the males have the antlers, uh, the females don't. So when you get out there and you're looking and you're like, oh man, look at that one, and you're like, uh, okay, no, that's a cow. And then sometimes they're 3 miles away, and so you're going, well, that one looks bigger than these other 2, that one's got to be a bull. So every— we pack our stuff and we hike through the tundra and it takes an hour to go a mile because of the stuff you're trying to walk through and then you're trying to walk fast. And so, you know, and I'm exaggerating a little bit, it probably doesn't quite take an hour, but it takes a little bit longer. And then coming back is even worse because you're wore out and you got all the way down there just to figure out that all 3 of the animals you were looking at are all cows. And so You're like, oh, I gotta walk all the way back through that. And so, uh, which is funny because caribou are kind of dumb. And like we would, they would lay down. And so we'd start hiking up there or crawling up there to them. And then they would spot us. So they stand up and then we're looking at them. We're like, okay, they're all cows. None of them, you know, we're probably 80 yards from them at this point. Like, all right, they're all cows. So then we stand up and they start kind of walking towards us. Well, then I kind of wave my arms and then turn around and run off. And so then we start hiking back to where our other buddy was at. And I hear a noise and I turn around and they're following behind us like dogs. And I'm going, y'all really are dumb. And so I don't know why, but they, they're, they say they're a really curious animal. And so they really are. And they just come running back towards you and you're looking at them and then you wave your arm again and then they take off running. But, and then same thing, you'd walk a little bit further and here they'd come again. And it's just funny how, uh, how they act. But so we hunted for several days. I mean, it rained, it's daylight the whole time. So there's another, like I said, difference between, which is weird because for me, when it starts getting dark is when I kind of start winding down. So if we're in the middle of doing stuff, it starts getting dark. Okay, it's getting late. Well, there's, there's no darkness. So it—

Oh yeah.

1 o'clock in the morning, it looks like 1 o'clock in the afternoon almost. And so, um, there's a couple times where it's like, I wonder what time it is. Oh wow. Hey guys, it's 11:30 at night. So I guess I'm not gonna eat dinner now. I'm just gonna go to bed. But it was so— you go through and you're— it snowed, it rained. We, it was daylight, but it was always cloudy. We hardly ever saw the sun. We had sun for a couple of days and we set everything out and let it dry. Uh, and so we ended up getting moved because they, this air taxi service offers you one free move. So we kind of talked to them through the Garmin inReach and we'd text them and say, hey, you know, we're still alive. We would text them every day. And then, so we sent them a message that, hey man, we're not seeing anything. Like, all right, cool. We're going to move y'all to a new spot. We've had a bunch of hunters around that area. And you're spread out like 10 miles apart at the least, sometimes more than that. They're like, hey, we had some other hunters in the area. They've seen a bunch of caribou. We're going to move you. And the problem when we were up there was there's a lot of like mosquitoes are terrible, which is hard to believe in the tundra that it gets that cold that they would be that bad. But so normally when it's warmer, the The caribou walk at like 10 miles an hour constantly, or 8 miles an hour or something like that. They're just constantly moving. And I'm probably a little off on that number, but they're constantly on the move. And I think what it is is from the bugs, because they stand still, the bugs attack them. So they just try to keep moving and they graze as they move. Well, because it was so cold, we never saw any of the bugs.

Hmm.

And so we would see the caribou like 2 miles from camp. at 8 o'clock at night, and when we'd wake up at 6 o'clock the next morning, they'd be at camp. So they just weren't moving very fast at all. And so we got moved, we're sitting there setting camp up, and I looked towards the end of the lake, and the lake was kind of down in a bowl, and on the top of this ridge, this big, uh, caribou standing up on the ridge with 2 cows.

Hmm.

And I was like, and I mean, it was like, I just needed the ray of light behind it and the music playing in the background as he was standing up there. I mean, that's what it felt like. And I'm looking at this thing and I was like, oh wow. And then everybody else turns around and sees it. Well, I kind of run up on the ridge and he turns and starts walking away from us. We have a storm rolling in. Technically we've been moved so we can't hunt anyways. We still need to set up camp because it's about to start raining. So I'm like, all right, well, they're not moving very far. We figured that out. So I'll just go hunt for them tomorrow. Well, that morning I get up and at this point in time, I don't, I don't like being cold at all. Like I'm a tropical people. That's what I tell everybody. And so I suck it up because there's a lot of hunting that I like to do that has to get done when it's really cold.

And the best hunting is in the cold, in my opinion.

Yeah, I agree. I agree 100%. So I was like, All right, I gotta suck it up, deal with it. And, uh, but so that morning I get up and I'm like, I'm tired of this. Everything's wet. I'm wet. I'm cold. I'm tired. I can't even put my shoes on. I can't put my feet down because my feet are gonna get wet. I'm tired of this. And my buddy's like, are you going hunting? I'm like, I don't know. I'm tired of this crap. I'm over it. And, uh, he's like, well, if you don't get up and go shoot that caribou, I'm fixing to. So you got about 5 minutes to get out of that tent or I'm going after him. So that's all I needed to hear. So I got up and got dressed real quick. And, uh, in the hunt, everything was weight-based, and we were, we were new to a lot of this. And so obviously we'd have done things different, but right, like, this guy had the rangefinder, this guy had the knife set, and originally we were always going to be together. When we get up to the ridge, I'm gonna go split off and go after my caribou, and He they spot two other caribou the opposite direction, so we end up splitting up. So I start walking towards the direction I think my caribou is, and probably two miles from camp was a another river, and I thought maybe he's down in that river somewhere. And well, little did I know that he was actually on the other end of the lake from us at camp, and at the lake I guess drinking water or eating or whatever he was doing. So I get kind of towards the end of the lake and he walks out and I was like, oh wow. So I dropped down and I'm looking at him and I was like, oh man, that's him. And so I, uh, I was trying to figure out what I was going to do because he's too far away for me to take a shot. I've got to try to get closer. So I kind of looked at him through my binoculars and I figured out what it looked like when he was looking at me and what it looked like when he was turned away. And so I just, just started crawling. And then when I would see that it's like white patch pop up, I would stop. I'd let him do his thing. He turned back away and I'd start crawling again. I kept going. And then once I got close enough, I ended up dropping my backpack. Well, of course everything's wet. So now my hands are wet, my knees are wet. Uh, and I'm just crawling through. And then finally at some points I was like army crawling on my stomach through the, you know, tundra. And so now I'm completely soaked. I have rain gear, but of course it's in my pack and I didn't have time to put any of that on because I wasn't expecting to see this caribou when I saw him. And so I crawl up there and I finally get in position and I'm looking at him. I'm like, okay, I don't have a rangefinder. I'm terrible at measuring distance. So I'm like, ah, 300 yards. That's what I'm gonna go with. So I started to rush the shot and I talked to myself like, hey, look, he has no idea you're here. He's just kind of doing this because he originally had walked up and then he turned and started walking back down towards the lake. And I was like, all right, he has no idea you're here. Just take your time. Just relax, calm down from— because I just crawled through the tundra. And so my heart's racing from everything. And, uh, So I get up there and I'm watching him. Well, then he turns and starts walking. I'm like, okay, I've got to take a shot now because if he gets back out of this little canyon the lake's in, I have no way to move. I'm stuck. I can't move because he'll see me and I'm just gonna have to sit here until he goes wherever. And so I'm like, all right, 300 yards. So I take a shot. He doesn't flinch, doesn't move, nothing. And I'm like, hmm, well, there's no way I shot over him, so I'm gonna go ahead and say I shot under him. So I raise it up a little bit more and I shoot again, and then he turns and he's kind of limping. And then I'm like, okay, cool. And then he falls over. I'm like, awesome. And then I was like, all right, he's down. Well, then he stands up again.

Oh.

I was like, oh crap. So I shoot him again and he drops. I was like, awesome. And so now I stand up and I just— and it was funny because probably about 3 weeks before I went on that hunt, I was watching a show on the Outdoor Channel and I can't remember the name of the show, but the dude shot a deer and he started crying. And me being me, I kind of made fun of him a little bit. I was like, ah, what are you crying for, man? It's just a deer. But he was crying out of his emotion, and it's so well. I shoot this caribou, and I break down. Like I gave, I gave my buddies, even though they weren't there because they were two miles away from me, I gave them a hell of a speech on, on you know what happened. I was like, man, thank you guys for being there, for putting up with me being grumpy and hating being cold and all this stuff, man. I owe you guys for this. I mean, that's what I told him. I sent him a message on my inreach, said, "Y'all can't hear it right now, but I'm giving you one heck of a speech. I love you guys." And but it was, and so finally, and I felt bad, you know, afterwards I felt bad for making fun of that guy for crying because it just all came together. It was just emotional with all the hard, all the work that went into it, the crawling, the biggest, big, huge caribou that I just saw. And I got it, you know, and it was kind of one of those for me. And there was a little bit more to it. Like for me, I'm usually never that guy. Like I'm never the guy that gets the bad Caribou or the best elk or the best. You know, I shoot stuff that makes me happy, but I was I'm usually never that guy. It's always somebody else, and I don't mean that to sound that in a bad way. But this time it was me. Like I got the the one that everybody's gonna you know nice. And so, and just like I said, that and all the hard work and everything that went into it, you know, it was finally it all came together, and I just I was like. I told them, guys, I'm over here crying, but it was awesome. So then started the whole process of having to get it back to camp.

Oh yeah.

And, uh, like I said, I'm a mile away and there's tundra. And so I decided to walk along the edge of the lake because that was better than walking through the tundra, which is still knee-deep water. But because it's, like I said, it's the ground is frozen solid underneath. So there's nowhere for the water to drain. So it's like just sitting in the sink. with us and it's like walking on a sponge. And so, oh, it's, but it was, oh, it was worth it. I mean, it was an experience that I'll never forget. I mean, heck, I actually, on our trip up there, we jumped in the Arctic Ocean and that was the coldest thing I ever felt in my life. But like, it took my breath away, but just those experiences and being out there and, you know, Alaska opened up a whole new world for us too, because now we realize we can make it. I mean, we survived. on freeze-dried food and our own, you know, getting our own water and, and all this stuff that you hear these guys talk about. We did it, we survived, and, uh, we learned a lot from it. But now it's kind of like, well, hey man, we can go pack up into the mountains, remote area of Colorado, and go elk hunting, or we can go here and go hunting, and we can make it. We're good.

Yeah, no, that's a great story, Patrick. Is there any gear that you didn't have on that hunt that you wish you would have? Uh, yeah, well, uh, other than your rain gear that you weren't wearing at the time.

Yeah, I wasn't wearing— well, a rangefinder would have been nice. Uh, a knife, because like I told you off air, I had to, uh, start trying to clean this deer. My, my dad had a buck or a hunting knife, uh, that I got obviously when he passed away, and I've cleaned every animal that I've ever shot, even when it's dull and I forget to sharpen it, which has happened. Uh, not very often because I'm usually pretty good about getting them sharp before I hunt, but every once in a while, like, I've cleaned other people's deer and I just forget to sharpen it. But I'll even go to mine, even if I just saw it a little piece real quick. I've always— it's touched every animal I've ever killed. So I had that knife, and then I had a Ka-Bar because, like I told you, the Ka-Bar was a knife I bought because it's good for anything. And I've heard my Marine buddies tell stories about their Ka-Bar, and I was like, you know what, Everybody needs a good Ka-Bar. So, but I wish I'd had a good knife, which actually I'm fixing to order one of y'all's knives because Adam let me carry his around for a week and it was pretty awesome. And so I'm— so I do want to order one of those knives. I had a spoon kit, which I actually ordered y'all's now because mine was okay, but I liked the metal. Uh, so other than that, I wish I'd have had some camp shoes, maybe like some, uh, low-profile waterproof type shoes. Uh, like Hook and Grundens and a few of those other guys make the boat shoes that people wear, and they're like a rubber, rubber boot basically. But that would have been nice for walking around camp. Uh, a tarp. that you could have sat on. Uh, we had chairs, but the tundra, the chairs would just stick through the dirt. So you'd be sitting there and all of a sudden the back of it would start falling. You just fall backwards and you have to get up and try to reposition it. So little things like that just to make— yeah, because when you're out there dealing with that in the tundra and there's— it's just different experience. A little home, homey type things.

Yeah. What gear do you always take with you on any of these adventures or backcountry hunts?

I usually always have, I mean, beside the obvious guns and stuff like that, but I always have a— try to have a knife. And again, I know it sounds like I'm saying that when Alaska, we didn't— I had knives. The problem was, is the knife kits were with my 2 buddies that were the opposite direction because again, everything was weight-based. And so, You know, you were only allowed so much weight. And after you do it, you stop and realize, well, I could have put knives on my belt loop or on my belt.

Yeah.

And it would have counted towards my weight and I would have been okay. Because like I put my binoculars and all this other stuff on, but at the time before you go, you don't think about any of that stuff. So, you know, but as far as hunting, I think you need a good pair of binoculars, a good knife. A rangefinder unless you're just really good at telling distance, which I'm not. So, uh, because afterwards my buddies got up there and we kind of looked at everything like, yeah man, that was probably about a 450-yard shot you took. Yeah. I was like, oh, okay, well I said 300, so slightly off.

Yeah, just a little bit. Yeah, gotcha. Patrick, are there any brands of gear that you just love, you think just do a phenomenal job of quality?

So I use a lot of, uh, Kuyu gear. and First Light are the 2 that I've really used, especially in Colorado because it was— or not Colorado, but Alaska. It was lightweight. And when everything's weight and it was, or, you know, based on weight, you're trying to get as light as possible. So when you look at something and this is 7 point or this is 5.2 pounds and this is 4.8 pounds and you think, oh, it's just 0.4. Well, that 0.4 adds up. So I mean, and we were weighing everything. So, uh, so Kuyu made some really good gear and it's expensive, but, uh, and so First Light Gear can be kind of expensive too, but being out there and wearing it and putting it through the test that we put it through, because I mean, like I said, it rained, it snowed, uh, I mean, it was in the 20s, 30s, 40s. Uh, it didn't really get too windy. But, uh, I've wore some of my Kuiu stuff in Colorado when it was windy and it did pretty good. So, I mean, I know it sounds crazy and everybody, you know, I, I used to go buy cheap stuff from Academy or wherever and go hunting with it and, and all that stuff. But once you get to start doing those kind of hunts where there's no— it's like Colorado, I can get soaking wet, drive back to camp, go get in the camper, turn the heater on, put my shorts, my flip-flops on. And I'm okay. But up there, there is none of that. And, you know, and actually you had him on your podcast, which was Christian. You know, he gave me some tips too on staying warm. If you get cold, like boil some water, dump it in a water bottle and stick it in your sleeping bag or stick it underneath your arm or whatever you need to do. And it's little stuff like that that I'd have never thought about. I probably would've sat there freezing to death drinking a bottle of water. So, but yeah, so Kuyu has made some really good gear, you know, and so far I haven't, like I said, and not just saying this because I'm on your podcast, but y'all's gear seems to be pretty good from what I've, I mean, I haven't really got to use it yet a whole lot. I mean, I messed with the knife a little bit and then I messed with my, the fork and spoon that I got and I'm with you. That's, and that's what I think y'all talked about in one of them where you said the spork, which is not good for anything. No. And that's one of the tools I was in Alaska and I was like, I hate, I want to fork, but I don't want like to carry a whole bunch of stuff around. And that's great because it's all together and you can just flip it around and—

And it's lightweight.

Yeah, it's lightweight. And then you can flip it around and, you know, you can have the fork or you can have the spoon. It's just, and then it folds down together. It's awesome. And it's got a can opener or bottle opener or whatever you want to call it.

Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Patrick, is there a book or books that have had a huge impact on your life?

Not really. I don't, I'm trying to get into reading. I usually do good and I can read, like, I'll read like half the book and then I stop and then I wait so long that I forgot what I read. So then I start back over and it's just a, it's a never-ending process of like reading half the book. But, you know, I, I try to, I actually got a book from Jocko called Extreme Ownership. Mm-hmm. And, uh, it's a kind of a leadership book that now that everything that I had going on is, is done, like, as I was, had a promotional deal going on to get promoted and to battalion chief and all that kind of stuff. So I kind of stopped everything else and was just kind of focusing on that. And then I've had some other training classes going on that I've been focused on. So, uh, but just some books kind of like that about you know, ownership and being a good leader and learning different things. And, and, and from people that, uh, because I've heard Jocko give some clips and stuff out of his book and, you know, just different things about, uh, you know, he was a Navy SEAL for— I don't know if anybody doesn't know who Jocko is, but he was a Navy SEAL. And Jocko Willink, you know, seems— yeah, seems like a pretty tough, hard dude that I wouldn't want to cross. I mean, I'd like to shake his hand, but I wouldn't want to make him mad. And in your mind, you think, oh man, I bet you he gets up there and he's like, hey, let's get out there and get to work. But that's one thing he talks about is not yelling at people. And he's like, when have you ever had a boss come in there and yell and scream at you? And then you went, man, that was awesome. I'm so glad he came in here and said that. I love that guy. That's great. And I was like, man, that's a good point. I mean, when you start, because I'm that way, when you start yelling at me in anger, I pretty much quit listening to you. Shut down. Yeah. And so it was kind of, so I've read some books that have kind of been pretty cool, and, you know, like The Lone Survivor, and listening to some of the stuff that Marcus Luttrell went through just in boot camp. And, you know, like, they would fix their room up, and then some of the instructors would climb up the windows on the outside and break into their room and destroy their whole room, and then call for a room check and then punish them because their room was destroyed, even though their room wasn't. And it's like Just, you hear that stuff, you're like, man, how do you, how do you deal with that? Like, I'd have been mad. I'd be like, you know what, y'all can have this crap.

Yeah, yeah. Patrick, do you listen to podcasts at all?

I do. Uh, I, I listened to— I just kind of started listening to some of Joe Rogan's stuff. Uh, I listened to the Meat Eater podcast. Uh, there's another one, uh, called Angler's Happy Hour, some bass fishermen and I started listening to y'all's podcast because y'all kind of started out— my buddies and I have talked about starting one, kind of what y'all did, just sitting around talking about your hunt and how it was going and who everybody was. And, yeah, you know, it was really cool. And, I learned where y'all came up with the name for Rewild and all that kind of stuff. And so, I actually listened to— I enjoy podcasts now. And, it's funny because I used to listen to music all the time because I actually play the guitar and Stuff like that. But it was— now I just listen to podcasts all the time because it's just fun to listen. Totally. Yeah, listening to y'all's stuff was a lot of fun. So thanks, Patrick.

What's one piece of advice you'd give to our audience?

Uh, well, I mean, just get outdoors, get out in nature, see everything that's going on. I mean, you know, it's so easy nowadays with everything at your fingertips, social media, and everything's pulling you in all these directions, and to be angry and mad and upset about this and You know, I got to the point now I don't watch any news. And if something crazy is going on, somebody would tell me about it. It's kind of where I'm at with it. And if I want to do more research, then I will. Because you watch this news story and, you know, this side's mad at this side's mad at this side and blaming this side for that and this side for that. And one minute they were saying this is bad and the next minute it's good. And, you know, I realized that none of that really changed the way I lived my life.

Yeah.

Like if, and not to get into politics, but if Joe Biden gets up there tomorrow and says something that I don't like and I walk around for the next 4 days mad about it, I'm still gonna go hunting in 2 weeks or whatever. I mean, so if I just don't listen to any of that, I'll walk around a lot happier. And you know, if, if it gets too crazy, I'm just gonna go move into the mountains somewhere and hide out and I can make it. And so, And that was the thing too, like when COVID hit and everything was— everybody was out of everything, like toilet paper, which we've all made all the jokes about toilet paper, and it still to this day makes no sense to me why we were out of toilet paper. But it was hard to find meat, it was hard to find all this stuff. And me and my buddies were like, hey man, we got elk meat, we're good. Or— and now we know we got caribou, and, uh, you know, we know how to go fishing and we know how to do all this stuff, so quit My biggest thing to people is quit relying on everybody else to do everything for you. Learn how to do it on your own, because if it ever— if something ever crazy happens, and let's just say you actually have to go out into the national forest to try to hunt for your own food, because that's the only way you're going to feed your family. Because to me, as a man, that is our job, is to provide for our family. So, and not saying women can't, by no means. Any women get mad at me. But, uh, but yeah, you know, so women can hunt and all that kind of stuff, but just get out and experience nature. I mean, if you don't want to go hunting, that's fine, but go backpacking out in the woods and go hike some trails. Go see the mountains. Go to Colorado. Go to Wyoming. I mean, all these places, there's so many beautiful places in the United States to go see in Texas and Florida. I mean, uh, you know, Colorado, New Mexico. There's all this stuff to go see and go do and get out there and go do it and just go. See the world instead of living trapped in this little bubble of chaos.

Yeah, totally. Self-sufficiency. That's what it comes down to, I think.

Yeah, for sure. And yeah, so yeah, that's my, that's what I try to do. Just get out there and see the world.

Great. Patrick, thanks so much for coming on the show today. Really appreciate it. If people want to follow you on social media or anywhere else, where can they do that?

So on Instagram, it's @ThePatrickSchaefer. And then I do have a Facebook, which is Patrick Shaffer. I don't really get on Facebook that much. I try to stick with more Instagram.

Sure.

I see a lot of less political and all that other— there's a lot more that shows up on Facebook than it does for me on Instagram. And so, so I try to stay on Instagram and I, that's usually where I post stuff. Like if I go hunting or on trips or whatever, that's usually where I'm posting stories and pictures and So, you know, and another thing, one more thing too, to add to what I'd give to people is try to leave everything better than you found it. Uh, I mean, that's one thing I kind of joke around with my wife is if we ever win the lottery, that's kind of what my plan is, is I'm going to start a company where I can afford to go buy a bunch of aluminum boats where we just drive around to some of these lakes and just pick trash up. And, uh, you know, cause I go out on Lake Conroe sometimes and I just see all this trash built up against the rocks and bulkhead and stuff. And I mean, me and my son jump out all the time and start collecting trash and I just throw it in the boat and I try to pick up a little bit every day. But, uh, anyway, so that's just one of my big things too, is just try to leave it better than you found it. I mean, it's not that hard to, you know, reach down and pick up a piece of paper.

Yep.

Or a piece of trash. If you don't, if you're, a germaphobe, which not judging if you are, my wife's one, bring you a pair of gloves, reach down there, pick it up. They make tongs now. You can go to like 4ocean, is a company that does ocean cleanup and they sell a whole kit. It's got little tongs that look like you'd flip a steak with and you can pick the trash up and drop it in your bag. And so—

Great advice. Super. Patrick, thanks so much for your time today. Really appreciate it. And, for the rest of you out there, until next time. Stay wild.

Thanks for listening to the Rewild Gear Podcast. You could check out the show notes for today's episode at rewildgearpodcast.com. If you're ready to spend more time in the wild, our line of high-quality minimalistic outdoor gear can help you do just that. Check us out at rewildgear.com.