Ep 39: Jordan Jonas on Wilderness Adventure & Winning Alone

Welcome to the Rewild Gear Podcast. Modern life, society, and responsibilities have domesticated us, but now it's time to rediscover your adventurous side. Whether that's camping, hiking, hunting, fishing, or just spending time in the great outdoors, this is the podcast for you. Join us as we get back to the wilderness and rewild. Welcome to the Adventure Made Podcast, brought to you by Rewild Gear. I'm your host, Seth Spears, and I'm here today with Jordan Jonas. Jordan is a wilderness living and self-reliance expert and the winner of season 6 of the History Channel's popular survival reality show Alone, which I really enjoyed watching. Jordan grew up in the mountains of Idaho, and as a young adult, he spent a year riding freight trains across the US where he learned to navigate both rural and urban environments. And I'm really excited to hear some stories from that. He spent 10 years in Siberia where he lived with fur trappers and traditional nomadic reindeer herders, which is where he learned the art of primitive survival. And during his time on Alone, he spent 77 days in the Arctic while also successfully hunting a bull moose, a wolverine, dozens of rabbits, squirrels, grouse, and numerous fish that he survived off of. Jordan, welcome to the show.

Welcome. Yeah, I mean, I guess thanks.

So you have a very fascinating bio, and, you know, I first heard of you, um, watching, watching Alone in season 6, and I think that was actually the first season that I watched. And so that was, and you know, I've always been into hunting and the wilderness and survival and that sort of thing. And so that show was kind of right up my alley. And it was really interesting to see the show and how everyone handled the elements, whether that was the conditions or, um, all the different factors. And what I found the most interesting was that so many people that seemed very well prepared for it, it was the lack of interaction with others where they tended to quit. So I, I'd love to hear your take on that and how you handled that.

Yeah, it's super interesting. It's definitely a situation where it requires, you have to have a pretty steady emotional base and you also need the skills. So, what you'll notice probably is usually the people that weren't expecting it to be so hard to be alone, they kind of drop off first. And then, there's Some people who manage that, but then eventually, you know, you're gonna starve. So it really is a combination of like the skills and the circumstances and the mindset. You have to, you know, they have to both be there. And it is, the mindset is super fascinating. It was, you know, even things I learned out there would be like, Well, for one, it was very obvious, and I've talked about this a lot before, but it was very obvious that you don't want a lot of skeletons in your closet.

Yeah.

And I noticed this when I was fur trapping in Russia first, where there I was like 5 weeks alone and I would just start thinking of every conversation I didn't have that I should have and all these little things that you just wouldn't Even if they weren't a big deal, they would just circle around in your head and you don't really have a way of emptying it. So, I think if you had real serious, I don't know, skeletons in your closet and you went on alone, they would just come up and eat at you. And, I think that would cause a lot of mental strife and might be the reason why you wouldn't make it through. So, it's the type of thing where I'd recommend anyone that's going to do something like that to— Get your, you know, get your internal issues in order. Get your, you know, make sure you've talked to all the people you should talk to about, you know, issues and whatnot. And that was very obvious. And of course, the lessons keep going. I was, for me personally, with hindsight, you know, it was so the 77 days I was out there, it really wasn't particularly difficult. Like, I didn't think I was like at the end of my ropes or any— or, you know, I wasn't— I felt like I was just getting started. But—

Wow.

I had a lot of mental anguish just worrying about the future, you know, like, oh man, you know, I'm gonna miss Christmas and then the kids' birthdays, you know, which were way off in the future, or I'm gonna eventually eat through this moose and the fish and everything and And starve and that, you know, and I don't have any more. You're only allowed to get, of course, one moose and one— they say you're not— you're only allowed so much. But, and so then you have all these worries about the future. And honestly, although I can honestly say I enjoyed it most of the time, I had a lot of stresses that if I would have just lived in the present and allowed, you know, do your best and allow it to flow as it does, I could have enjoyed it a lot more, you know?

Yeah, no, that's fascinating that you bring that up because so that's Every, every year I try to have like a word of the year or a focus. And this year, for 2022, it's just to be present.

Oh, there you go. Yeah.

And so that's— I find that really interesting that you said that if you would have focused on just being present and where you are, not thinking about the future so much, then it would have made it easy. Because I've heard it said that the cause of depression is looking at the past and the cause of anxiety is thinking about the future. And so instead of just being fully present where you are and just accepting what is and Really digging.

Yeah, that's that's the thing I that was the lesson that I learned the most out there that I guess I hadn't sunken prior probably you know because in Russia I'd learned about you know cleaning up your mental space and you know had all the skills and stuff necessary but yeah I was just like man I stressed out so much that I did and I didn't even need to you know yeah that's a good yeah a good thing to focus on and of course if you're properly prepared in a way you know you're never going to be perfectly prepared but if If you've got the right foundation for whatever situation you're in, it's just, you know, you just lean into that and don't worry about, you know, what happens, what happens. So, yeah.

Well, it sounds like from your background that you were pretty well prepared going into it. So, I'd love to dig into your origin story there and hear about hopping on the trains and stuff like that.

Yeah. So, I, you know, when I, we grew up on a farm and then Of course, we all got our little— our jobs pretty young. I got a— and my first job was when I was 13, moving irrigation lines for a ranch. And that was, you know, twice a day, 7 days a week, all summer. So pretty. And then after that is then I worked at a little theme park, then I worked at a concrete factory and the salad dressing plant, you know. Anyway, so we're just working along and my brother in that time, He was 5 years older than me and he went out and he went down and hitchhiked down to Reno to visit a friend. But he enjoyed being out in the freedom of traveling, but he really didn't like hitchhiking because you got to rely on other people. And somehow along the way, he ran into some hobos, I guess you'd call them. And they invited him to hop on the train with them or whatever. And so he did. And he ended up loving it and he ended up just Riding freight trains for what would be the next seven or eight years, he pretty much just traveled the whole time. And at one point, you know, he had been doing it for several years and invited me to come along. And I was about eighteen or nineteen, and I was like, "Man, I guess I'm just working. I might as well mix it up." So I agreed and hopped on a train with him. And yeah, we rode across the country and. I spent, you know, better part of a summer just riding trains with him and stuff, and he showed me all the ropes. And then at, you know, kind of at the end of that summer, I decided to head back to Idaho. And so I rode trains back.

Wow.

Uh, by myself, which was my first significant amount of time alone. And so that was interesting. But, uh, yeah, the whole time it's preparation. I feel like Living that lifestyle was my first taste of— well, it's interesting, it's so different. It's way— it's a lot more urban-based than, you know, your wilderness life would be.

Sure.

But, uh, it was the first taste of the vibe you get when you live, say, with the natives in Siberia, or live as people have always lived for all of history, where you wake up and you don't have a schedule. You just have certain needs you need to meet, and all you have to do is think about, how do I meet these needs? And then And then you move on. It's very in the moment, unscheduled, free-flowing. And, I feel like it's sort of what we're all designed to thrive in, but that's one of the things we've lost in modern society is the ability to really tap into that flowing state of being. We do end up very scheduled and very—

Busy.

Routine.

Very much so.

Yeah, yeah. And, like you talked about earlier, we live a lot more in the past than the future than you do when you're in a situation like that. And so, that was my first taste of that type of a lifestyle and I really liked it. And, you have all kinds of— it was just the young guy and had all kinds of just every night you don't know where you're going to sleep and it's an adventure. And, Sometimes you might go to jail or sometimes you might meet some really cool folks. It's just a whole gamut of experiences. Yeah.

I'd love to hear some of the craziest stories that you experienced while being a hobo on trains.

Yeah. I mean, I guess the one that I guess pops in my head was just funny because we were in Chicago and just minding our own business. Checking out the sights, and this a cop car drove up. But he like sped; he was hauling, and he sped past us and slammed on his brakes, like and shoved it into reverse, peels out, and like slams up on the curb in front of us, and like stops in front of us. We're like, "Whoa, dude!" And and he jumps out. He's like, "What the f are you guys doing in my town?" You know, we're like, "Whoa!" He was like super aggro, and he's like, "He's like, Oh, we're gonna see how many drugs you guys got in those packs." And of course, we didn't have any, but we but the guy was just aggro as could be. And wow. He's like, give me your IDs. And so, we gave them to him and he's like, you guys are going to be sorry whoever showed up here, and sits in his car. But then, he gets out and he was like this big ripped dude. You could tell he was just a jerk of a dude. But, he gets out—

Tip on his shoulder.

About ready to do whatever he was going to do to us. And, we were below a skyscraper they were working on and a nail fell from the heavens and knocked his glasses off right at the moment he was stepping up out of his car. Knocked his glasses off, and he was so— he just threw our IDs on the ground. He's like, I'm gonna go ask me a construction worker, and jumped in his car and like sped off. And we're like, whoa, the nail from the heavens! It was amazing. This is a funny little anecdote of a story that happened, but you know, it's stuff, uh, stuff like that happens very often. Very often it's super boring, like you'll be waiting for 8 hours in one spot for a train and nothing's happened, or days sometimes. We had a— at one point we were sitting in some abandoned factory just waiting for a train, and it's been a few days and you get super bored. You can't really leave too far because the train might come, and so you're just sitting there. We found this big old roll of aluminum foil. Oh sweet. So we built these, you know, what you would do over the course of a few days sitting there. We built these huge aluminum foil hats with all this. We looked like a bunch of idiots out there. And then One night we're just sitting there waiting for the train and some minivan pulled up and was waiting for a train that was going too fast. And, uh, and we like out of boredom like walk over there and like start circling her car, which is probably ill-advised. But the poor lady just looked at us like, ah, shoved it in reverse, sped off. Like, oh, who knows? She's probably still telling the story of Oh man. We were just bored. Sorry, ma'am.

So from what I understand, most of the train lines, they don't actually want people just boarding trains and taking them for a ride. So.

Right. Yeah. You know, you want to be low-key about it sometimes. It's really, it's really based on the individuals who cares and who doesn't. I'd say the majority of like Workers and folks don't really care. You could sometimes even ask a worker, where's the train going? And he might tell you. But, but of course you always get the people that do. And so, you know, of course it's for the train. I'm sure it's a liability if people get injured on there and stuff. So they don't want you on there. So yeah, you either have to be stealthy or deal with the consequences of your actions.

Yeah, for sure.

But it is nice. You know, there's something nice about it because you're, uh, it's not like driving. So you're not always on a road having to pay attention and you're not seeing billboards. The trains always follow rivers and stuff. So you're always going through some beautiful areas. Animals aren't so afraid of them. So, you know, you just see a lot and you go through some pretty awesome parts of the country, especially in those western routes and stuff. But—

Was there a A favorite place that you rode through?

No, I just remember, you know, after you— it was the time when I was alone and I had this whole ordeal getting on a train. I finally got on one and I was heading from Minneapolis out west. And, you know, you go through for days of just flat, flat terrain. And, you know, that first time you see those mountains in Montana or whatever, you're just like, oh, you know, because it also meant like, oh, you're almost home. You know, you're getting closer to home. And it's just that feeling that all those people on the wagon trains, I'm sure, got too. There they are. There's something about that, you know, that moment that's pretty neat.

For sure.

But you see a lot of— what's cool is you see a lot of abandoned factory, you know, a lot of cool stuff to explore in that genre.

A lot of history there, I guess. So let's talk a little bit about living in Siberia with reindeer herders and fur trappers. So, and I'm thinking that that experience is what really prepared you as far as having that skill set to go on to Alone.

Yeah, I'd say even mentally and physically, like I, so when we rode trains, we ended up in Virginia and would do temporary work for a guy in order to, you know, earn money to buy our food and stuff. And when I was in Virginia at one point, I had an adopted brother who found his biological family when he was in his 20s. And, it turns out he had a biological brother that was also going to go to Russia and the guy told me about it. And, he said, oh, I'm going to go help this missionary guy build an orphanage over there if you want to come. And, I was like, well, yeah, it sounded like the right thing to do. So, I went over, I got a ticket for a year. Went over there and the guy that we were helping out was super awesome. He's just one of the most well-read, fascinating guys I know. But I also wanted to live with Russians so I could learn the language and figure out the culture better. And sure enough, there was a guy in the neighboring village whose wife had just been admitted into the hospital and he had 2 kids and he had to go to work and he's like, oh, And my buddy called him and he's like, hey, I got this American. Would you want him to live with you? And he was like, oh, that would be amazing. I was just praying about it. He's like, my wife's in the hospital, send him over. And so, he sent me over there and I lived basically with the— bounced between 2 Russian families for the first year I was there. And they had both been in prison together, so they were real close friends. Yeah, both had spent considerable terms in Siberian prisons. Both had found God in prison together. And so, they were all close. And then, there was another buddy they had up in the forest. So, that was just regular village Russian life, which was cutting hay with a scythe and all that kind of old-fashioned stuff, milking the cow every morning. And, I think that was where I felt the most isolated I've felt in life. Which, which alone felt like it wasn't even close. I wasn't even close. Never felt as alone on the—

Really?

Alone. Because just when you're for a year when you don't speak the language and, you know, I would learn, I was learning it the best I could, but maybe it was also a fact I was younger at the time too or something. But for whatever reason, I just would just lay in bed and be like, man, I would not wish this on anybody. This is so, you know, I was so miserable. At times, you know, it was cool and interesting, but the isolation of it was very difficult. And you're always misunderstood because you're, you know, you don't have— you can't figure out humor yet because you don't have the language skills and you screwing up like, and it, you know, and you might be good at what you do in America, but when you go over there, all everything's a little different and this and that. And so you just, you know, it was, it was, I found it to be pretty difficult and And many times on Alone, I thought, no, this isn't— I guess I already learned that lesson, that lesson of isolation. And it was harder in Russia. But anyway, that first year I lived with them and then the guy— they're really good friends. And one of the guys said, hey, I got a buddy up in the north. He's a fur trapper and a native. You should go live with him. And eventually, I made that connection and he invited me to Northern Siberia there where he, yeah, was a fur trapper. So, he invited me out to his lands. He's also a native Evenki guy, which is the reindeer herding tribe. He himself was a trapper. But, if you've ever seen that Happy People documentary, you should. It's on YouTube. It's really good. But, Happy People, it's called. And, there's a 4-part Dubbed over Russian version that's better than the Werner Herzog version because anyway, so look for that four-part series and it's really good, really good show. But I was basically doing that for trapping with this guy and and you know he liked what I did. We became good friends and that was again another experience alone where he says kind of dropped me off at a cabin and five weeks later we were going to meet up at this other cabin and. He kind of showed me the ropes, how to set the traps and what to do, and that was that, you know. And so just providing for myself out there and having all, you know, you have all kinds of again crazy experiences that, but you're just by yourself, which is really interesting. So this also played into Alone too. It's like, man, I had this amazing experience in Siberia where I was, you know, at times I fell through the ice and I was lost at times, and I had all kinds of like just crazy experiences. But you realize. Oh, they're just all in my head, and as soon as this is over, I'm gonna forget about it, and and that's that. You know, and and and which I thought was a big bummer because it was so such a profound experience as you're having it. But on alone, I was on alone later. I noticed a lot of people really didn't like the cameras, but I actually really appreciated the camera because it was like, oh, this is a way to share this experience with people. Whereas when I was in Siberia, I had an amazing experience, but No way to share it. You know, batteries on my camera died the first day. So it was just, I felt that was a great opportunity to share that on Alone that I didn't have in Siberia. That said, after I fur trapped with him and all that, he took me out to his cousins who are all native nomads. So he took me out on the snowmobile.

Mm-hmm.

Basically dropped me off at this teepees and they introduced me and the guys were immediately, you know, because it was from their friend or whatever cousin there that vouched for me and they were like, hey, take this guy, he's awesome and he's the only good American, you know, as if they knew any others.

Yeah.

Then they brought me in like I was one of them and I, you know, The first time I was there, I was only there a few months, but I really liked their way of life. And so, then I went back and would continue to go back for some years.

Yeah.

And, it was— yeah, it's a fact. I actually talked to one of them this morning. They came in from the woods to the village to do something and she sent me a message just how Happy New Year or whatever. So, I still stay in touch with the natives and I do really want to go back over there. Such a fascinating way of life.

Yeah. What's interesting about Siberia, I remember reading an article about a year ago. Um, there was a family that lived really deep in the Siberian wilderness and—

Oh yeah. Yeah. I've heard about them.

Yeah. Like before communism had taken over. And so they were discovered. And so they had no idea anything that was going on just because they had just been living by themselves alone. It was a family.

Yeah. So there's a cool, there's a cool little subculture, I guess you'd call it, over there called the Old Believers, which I guess would be like Amish.

Okay.

There was a schism in the Orthodox Church back in the— maybe it was the 1700s. And a lot of these people went off into the wilderness and basically just forged their own path from then through the Soviet times until now. And like, that lady was particularly isolated, that family. But, there are several of these little Old Believer villages. Then, I went to one of them and it was super fascinating. It's similar to Amish but just a little more hardcore. It was Russian. And, I was like, man, it was really neat. They gave me this big jar of just cow cream that you could stand your fork up in. But, it was in the middle of the summer, we were boating through on the river and we had stopped in. We just had to eat that whole gallon, me and my Avinki friend, that whole gallon of cream. But man, it was so good. I don't know. I'll always remember that from the old believers up there.

Great, Jordan. So how did you go about getting on to the show?

Yeah. So like you said, it's a pretty good show. It was one of the— it was probably the only show I watched really, you know. And so, but my buddy had told me about it. He's like, hey, you should check this show out. And when I watched it, the season 1 had come out and season 2 was airing or something. So, I watched the first 2 seasons and then we were like, shoot, we should sign up for that. And so, my buddy never did, but I actually that evening after I watched the second season, I was like, ah, I sent him in a link to my YouTube videos, which was living with the natives in Siberia. And, she— that pair, they watched them, but then, you know, I guess I was too late for season 3. Season 4 was teams, season 5 was returnees. And so it wasn't until like 3 years or 4 years later that, that they had an opportunity to put me on. And I had completely forgot about the show, you know, about that I had applied. It just wasn't even anything in my head. I was just working away in DC building this driveway. And then, uh, I got a call and they're, hey, this is, you know, casting for Malone. And we Want you to be on season six, and I was just like, what? Whoa! I forgot. Like, I gotta go catch up on the show, and then ah. But yeah, that was a big surprise. But I was like, man, I can't really say no. It was quite an opportunity. Yeah. You know to use, and I of course I didn't know how it was gonna go. You never know how it's gonna go, but great opportunity. So I went ahead and kept the doors kept opening, and I kept going through them until I was. Dropped off, I guess.

So what was the preparation like for that?

Mostly, I was mostly concerned that I am a very thin person with a high metabolism. I was just like, and if you watch all the prior seasons, there's a lot of starving going on, you know, and even the people that won were usually starving. So I was like, man, if it is like that, there's no way I'm gonna win. But I had the like, encouraging knowledge of having lived in a similar environment and, and, you know, not only while fur trapping, living off the land, but also with the natives. So it was like, well, I know you can, I know it's possible. And it was kind of funny because prior to the, the show, I would of course go on Reddit and see what people were saying and stuff. And they would all be like, oh, you know, they do all the math. There's a really big YouTuber guy that You know, wanted to get on the show but never did or something. So then he would always talk about how dumb the show is and just broke it down about how like there's no way to win except by getting fat and starving, you know. And he had all the caloric this and that and I was reading and it's like, hey, you're kind of convincing, but man, I know it's possible. So I like, so I was like, man, I'm just gonna go out there and, you know, I know it. I know my only stress is food. So that's the only thing I have to worry about. I'm not gonna freeze, I'm not gonna be lonely, nothing like that. So all my energy went into getting food and, you know, above everything else, uh, and from the minute I was dropped off, you know. So I, uh, my preparation was trying to put on weight, um, the best I could. And, you know, brushing up on random skills that you wouldn't really that you don't always need except in a situation like alone, you know, like super random skills of—

Give me an example.

Yeah, I was starting to talk and now I can't even think of an example. But, oh well, I did snare a bunch of groundhogs in the backyard there in Virginia, just to try out some different things. But of course, that doesn't take a lot of, you know, I don't know. Yeah. That was one thing I did. But I, uh, what are the skills that I didn't have that I was like, man, I better brush up on that? There definitely are some. And I'm sadly— oh, bow drill, like doing a bow drill fire.

Yeah.

Stuff like that. It's like, oh, it's a good thing to know in case you lose your ferro rod. It was something I hadn't prior learned, but you know.

Yeah. So from what I understand, everyone is given the option of what gear that they want to bring with them. What is it like 5 items, 10 items, something like that?

Yeah, 10 items. Yep.

And so how did you decide which items you wanted to bring with you?

There's probably 5 of the items that are pretty much standard everybody takes, which is like a sleeping bag, some kind of a pot or a pan, some kind of a knife or a Leatherman, you know, all this. There's several that everybody takes. And then everything else that was— everything else was something that could hopefully provide me food. So fishing hooks and a bow and an arrow, which prior to my season, a lot of people didn't take bows and arrows. Yeah. And yeah, of course, fishing hooks. The guy before me won the show without even bringing fishing gear.

Wow.

And paracord so I could make a fishing net and, you know, all kinds of just stuff like that. And usually stuff that would help me to gather food. And, the only exception to that, and it was my only— well, it would be my only future item change potentially would be that I took a saw to save calories. And, I knew better, but up in the north, all the trees are about the size of your arm, so you can chop them down with an axe in 2 swings anyway. So, you don't really need a saw. And, I was hoping it would save calories and it did, but— I probably should have. If I had hindsight, say I was on season 7 and I got to watch season 6, I would've definitely taken the gill net right away and then made a second one rather than making one later on. Yeah. I just didn't, you know, you live and learn. I didn't realize you could catch such huge lake trout right off the shore.

Yep.

Up at that lake. Usually they're kind of a deep water fish, but anyway.

So every, every season of Alone is a little bit different as far as the location where they have it. So I'm curious how, if you were not in such a cold environment, um, something that you were familiar with living in Siberia, how that would've affected the outcome for you.

Well, it depends. I, I mean, I've spent a lot of time in more temperate environments. Like now I live in Montana and, you know, grew up in Idaho. So all those Idaho, those places north, you know, are pretty, there's a pretty good path forward in survival, you know, like, and honestly, the farther south you go, it almost just gets easier. It just depends on, uh, where you are, of course. You know, in the desert there's not as much— there's not many resources, and I wouldn't want to do that, you know. So there's definitely places that would— that are more or less conducive to that type of a show. What's better about the northern regions is that there really is, um— I— what I like about it is it rewards activity in people.

Ah.

So like people that are gonna, if you're gonna be really active and try to hunt and try to trap and try to snare, da da da, it can pay off. There's definitely places they could do the show and they have in the past where there just aren't that many opportunities. So either you've got one chance at one thing or you're better just sitting in your shelter and not wasting calories. And so I like where I was on it because it rewarded activity and like And that's what I needed.

Yeah, that makes sense. So has nature and the outdoors always been important to you, Jordan?

Yeah, definitely. You know, it always has been. My dad wasn't a hunter, so hunting came kind of later in my life after I went to Siberia. And then, you know, you're always hunting out there. And then I came back to the States and, and got into archery a lot more. And so I've provided, you know, ever since all our meat basically. But aside from that, yeah, it's always been a big part and it's only grown over time. The more I've spent time outdoors, the more I realize it's necessary and there's a lot of good that we've missed out on, you know, in the modern world. We've got so much, which is amazing, but living the best time ever. But, We've lost some things along the way that we don't even recognize. So yeah, for trying to tap into that is important. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. That's so, that's one of the reasons why we named our company Rewild Gear is because we want people to get back in the outdoors and rewild themselves and reconnect with nature because we've lost so much of that.

So much. So important. Yeah. And it's even now, right? It's Rewild is a great name because it is a I, uh, it's so necessary for people, especially, you know, I noticed it especially the last couple years where people are so politically fired up. And so there's so many things to be mad at each other about. But if you get in the— if you're out in the woods and you're just living, it's so different. And even, you know, you can be with somebody that's of a total different political persuasion, and then all of a sudden you're just 2 people in the woods.

Mother Nature is the great equalizer.

Yeah, totally. It's really nice. Yeah, I think people need more of it for sure. Yeah, definitely.

She doesn't care what your political views are, how much money you have.

Totally.

All about your skill set.

Yeah, right.

Jordan, so, um, I'm curious how life has changed after being on the show, because, you know, a lot of people, they go on a reality show or get some modicum of fame, um, and what, what's changed for you since then? I know you've started like your survival school.

Yeah, so not a lot has changed. It feels The same except that, uh, I guess the 3 things that have changed are one is it gave us the ability to get some land out here in Montana and move out here. And it, uh, probably the most tangible and my favorite thing that's come of it was being able to do those wilderness courses like Carla came on, your friend.

Yep.

And, um, uh, they've just been so awesome because it's It's way better than doing construction.

Oh yeah.

And I think it's really necessary. It's been really good for people. It's been one of the most rewarding things about doing it is seeing what people say about the courses. And you're just like, man, this is cool. This is really good for people. So, that's motivating to keep it going. And that's been awesome to be able to transition from just renovating houses and stuff to teaching these skills up in the wilderness is amazing and introducing people to just life in the outdoors, people that haven't often put their phone down for a day, you know. And then, uh, third— oh well, yeah, that's about it. And third, I get to have like random fun conversations with people occasionally.

Yeah, cool. Tell me more about the, about the survival school and all the courses that you're putting on.

Yeah, so it's, um, the last couple years I've just been doing them out in the wilderness here. And usually, we do take people in on horseback and do about 6 days up in the wilderness, try to get to some really remote places. I've used it as an opportunity to try to go places that I would want to go, you know, which makes it more exciting for me. And I think that affects everybody else too. And so, I just pick places that I really want to go and invite people to come along with me. And then, I try to tap into what we were talking about earlier where I don't have a super strict schedule. I have a lot of things that I want to teach and cover, but I want people to also feel the freedom of that wilderness life.

Yeah.

Kind of. And so, if we go up there and maybe we're going to do fire building this morning, but all of a sudden, oh, we hear wolves howling over there, maybe we should try to howl the wolves in or, you know, Or maybe we should call those elk in, or, you know, like, so, or maybe they're just a cool mountaintop everybody wants to go try climb to, you know, let's do that. And so we do that. I also, yeah, so I don't know, keep it open, but they're just amazing. I mean, you can't go wrong for a week up in the, some of these beautiful areas, just catching fish and learning all the skills that I think are, you know, one thing that was nice. For me going on the show is that I could tell what was— having lived with the natives, I knew what people practically used, what skills have kind of— the wheat and the chaff have been separated by them. So, what you're going to need and what you don't need. And so, I just try to teach people a basic skill set that can help them. Then, my goal would really be— most people aren't going to find themselves on a loan or something, but— My goal would be able to— that people could then feel confident to do the same thing, like go up in the woods and spend a week with themselves or them and their family or their friends and, yeah, you know, open up that whole aspect of the world for them would be awesome, you know. And sometimes all you need is a, is a, you know, a kick and just a little bit of a knowledge base to be able to do that.

So yeah, for sure. What gear are you sending everyone out with?

Um, pretty basic gear. So we're like, I want people to build their own fishing rods and build their own, you know, kind of tie up their own lures. And so I kind of keep it simple. It's kind of Alone-ish style on the gear, uh, so that, yeah, just keep it so that if you, if you can catch a fish with a little lure you just hammered out of a tin can, then it's only going to be easier in the future if you actually have real stuff. So, you know, it kind of like It's— plus it's more gratifying. It's really fun to make a rod and put it all together and go and catch a fish and fry it up. You know, it's just the whole experience, like, oh man, I can do this without almost anything. You know, it's pretty neat. So I keep it fairly simple. There's certain things I don't make people do, like make your own cordage and stuff, because then that's your whole class would be a week of you making 10 feet of cordage.

Yeah.

Just kidding.

So the food you guys are eating, are you bringing anything in with you?

Yeah, so we bring in food, uh, and then on the last day I just have everybody because I don't want to like hammer the land too hard. So if you bring everybody and they're providing— well, there's 2 reasons. One, if everybody's just trying to survive for a week off of these little mountain lakes and stuff, that's a lot of pressure.

Yeah.

Um, but 2 is like, if you're surviving and you really need to get your own food That's all you do. That's what you need to be doing all the time. And, here, we're trying to learn also. And so, on the days where we're doing a lot of learning, then we have food. And then, we usually go on a little expedition to maybe some other lake at the end. And, that expedition is unfed, provide for yourself off the land with the skills you've learned.

Yeah.

And then, But that's what I've been doing. Actually, this year I got some llamas too. So, I'm going to be able to maybe do some smaller-scale courses, just maybe 5 or 6 folks, take them up with the llama helping pack food and gear and do more of a backpacking style wilderness trips, which could be a lot of fun. And again, open up just a lot of new areas to go and— This and that. So, so that, and I am, uh, you know, thinking about what some winter courses might look like and stuff. So I'm looking to try to do expand more, but, but I have to balance it with, uh, family. So I go, of course, don't want to overdo it. So just trying to find the right balance.

Yeah.

I don't want to be gone the whole summer and then all of hunting season and then, you know, whatever.

Yeah. Now, do you do a lot of hunting as well, Jordan?

Fair amount. Like I said, I've always— not a lot. Like, if you go on, you know, the internet's great because if you do something, you know, there's always people that do it a lot more and a lot better. So there are definitely people that hunt a lot more than I do, but I definitely, you know, try to and usually succeed at feeding the family. You know, I always want to keep a full freezer and keep— that's my main purpose behind hunting other than that I really enjoy it and it's a great experience to be outside. So usually I'll, uh, a little too practical. So once I, I'll fill my freezer and then it's hard for me to buy like out-of-state tags and all that. So I, uh, but I'll go with friends and then help them fill their freezer and stuff. So yeah, I do a lot of hunting, but relatively.

What are you typically hunting?

What's that?

What species are you typically hunting?

Mostly what I've done, because I've been out east for the last 12 years, uh, so it was mostly whitetail, occasionally a bear, and occasionally, uh, you know, stuff like that. But, uh, now I'm really enjoying the elk hunting out west here and been getting some elk and some—

Nice.

That to the mix and stuff like, you know. Oh yeah. So yeah, yeah, yeah. It's more western species. But now I want to try— well, I guess that's a hot topic, but I think predator management's a big part of the whole thing, the North American conservation method. And so, I'd like to— there's really heavy wolf predation. And Carla, who came on our course, could probably speak to that, but there's just not a lot of animals in the wilderness up here because they've kind of all been eaten out. So, I'd like to—

Oh, wow.

Thin the wolf pot. There are tons of wolves, but not so many, like, you know, you'll see a moose and then the next week you'll find the dead moose, you know, stuff like that. It's just like a lot of pressure. So I'd like to maybe get one or two of those just to do my part here a little bit.

I'd love to hear your take just kind of on the whole conservation movement because that means different things to different people.

Yeah. So what I think is awesome about America, having lived in Russia, is that we have an organized conservation strategy and a society that's high enough trust that people aren't just poaching all the time anyway. And so, what that's done is it's allowed— you might live in town and see deer all the time. I guarantee you that never happens in Russia. Everything that comes to town gets shot by someone. So, you get these big dead zones around villages. And, I really like that America's done that differently. I am a little bit wary of the— there's like the mod— the most recent trend of putting like biology to vote, you know, like, I feel like I would really like to know that there's biologists figuring out what the land can sustain of each type of species from grizzlies and wolves on down to, you know, elk and whatever prey species and figuring out what a good balance is and implementing it. When you put it to vote, it just doesn't make sense, you know? Like, you know, it's just like, well, that's a cool animal, of course I want that out there. So I'm not sure.

Yeah.

I'm not sure that's a good trend, but, but only because I was actually— so I think, I think what, what needs to go hand in hand with, with hunting and providing your food and stuff is also some predator, some degree of predator management. Not annihilating them, but just keeping them at You know, numbers that are not causing this big ebb and flow in game populations that—

Sure.

And, you know, anyway, so whatever, something to do with that. But I do appreciate America and the fact that we have a lot of game relatively, you know, probably just— yeah. And that people in general don't shoot everything they see, which is nice. Yeah.

Jordan, what's the biggest life lesson that nature and the outdoors has taught you over the years through all these different experiences?

Well, I mean, I guess priorities. I don't know. Of course, that's a broad question. I would have a long time trying to answer it, but the first thing that popped to mind is really knowing your priorities and knowing that in it all, You know, like when my dad died, I know what he valued at the end of his life. He valued the time he spent with his family. He valued the time, you know, and he regretted the time that he wouldn't have in the future. So, it's like you just, you want to learn those lessons from the people that came before us. And so, yeah, prioritizing my family and loved ones and also— Helping them see what is beautiful about— because we all probably, if you're a parent, people that are parents probably like, man, the world's crazy. What a weird time to parent. Things are changing fast and it's hard to keep up. But, I think having a foundation that can keep the kids, I think having them in nature and experiencing that keeps them grounded and gives them an outlet. And, I think— You know, my faith is valuable to me and just having, yeah, I don't know, all that kind of weave together as my foundation, you know, just knowing where, what your base is that you're working out of is helpful.

That makes sense.

But yeah, 'cause yeah, you can, you have all those experiences. I, you know, I definitely had times in Russia where I'd mess out in Siberia on this reindeer in the middle of nowhere, just this epic experience and you're just like, Huh, that's funny. This is all— this is amazing and this is about as epic as you can get, but I recognize a little bit the vanity of it, you know? Like, I'm gonna forget it and it's just gonna be gone. It's just me out here in the woods. Like, what? Who's gonna— who cares, you know? But so experience wasn't everything. It's all, you know, kind of comes tied back to love and your family and your friends.

Do you feel that having those experiences with others, that magnifies it more?

Yeah. So that's been a neat thing about— so I'm not the type of person that just wants to go in the woods and never see anyone ever again. I like people and I, that was one thing I thought on Alone was like, well, this is fine. I didn't feel too lonely out there, but boy, if I knew I was the last person on earth and that I'd never see anyone again, I probably wouldn't even bother. You know, like it's interesting to like, oh yeah, it's not, Without others, at some point you're not gonna wanna do it. But, uh, uh, so I really value people. I like— and these courses have been great cuz not only do you get to spend time in the wilderness, but you get to be up there with really interesting and great folks. So it's like they're kind of the best of both worlds. But, um, uh, yeah, I, I, I forget what your question was exactly, but I do like people. They're a big part of Life.

Kind of the meaning of it, I think.

Right, exactly. It was very— it was a very clear thought I had when I was on Alone. Again, it was funny because I wasn't particularly lonely. I was just like, well, man, if it was just me left, it's funny because I'm having fun, but you would quickly think, what's the point? You know, like, well, you need people. Yeah. Even if you think you don't.

Yeah, exactly. Jordan, what's a crazy outdoor adventure experience that you've had that you would not want to repeat?

Well, I guess the one that first pops into mind was just when falling through the ice when I was fur trapping in Siberia, because you're alone and you don't— and it was a river that, you know, probably places it was probably frozen 6 feet deep, but I But I wanted to get a bit— I kind of lost my where I was. And so I was gonna go out on the river to get a better view of the contour of the mountains and, and be like, oh yeah, my trap's over there. So I was like stepping back into the river to get a better view and must have been like an upwell underneath the ice, which of course can happen. But sure enough, boom, and I splunged through this. It was just my full leg, you know, like I caught myself, just my leg went in. But It was cold and it was the middle of Siberia and my matches got soaked and I was just like, man, what do I do? Do I— should I go 4 miles back to the cabin I started or go to the next 3 miles up to the next one? And I, you know, you're debating like, uh, and so then I went to the one that was closer and, and, you know, thank God I did because I— by the time I got there, my leg was just dead, you know? And I was like, man, it was— I was miserable, but I— and I'd had a couple experiences like that out there, you know, big learning experiences for me. And, uh, um, yeah, and sometimes I found myself lost and just stuck in the wood. You get— you'd be on these snow skis that keep you on, you know, maybe 3 or 4 foot of that dry powder you get when it's really cold.

Yeah.

It's a really deep snow, but you have these Siberian skis that keeps you on top of them. Well, then I got into some forest fire that the trees were too close together to use the skis. So I had to take them off and trudge through this deep snow. And it's a long story, and I won't bore you with the whole thing, but just super miserable. And I— this was when I was, I was actually wearing this coat, and I had the matches in my pocket up here, which was dumb of me. And snow falls on your shoulder and melts and gets them wet.

Oh no.

Uh, some— I went to like, man, I'm so thirsty, I need to melt some snow. And I went to start a fire and I couldn't. I was like, oh crap, usually a bow drill would come in handy, but I don't know if I would have bothered. But yeah, I was like, okay, I'm gonna go to the river. But then I got to where I could go down to the river, and then it was just a cliff between me and the river for who knows how long in every direction. So I just had to— it was a very— I was— ended up finally making it to the cabin I was trying to get to, you know, in the middle of the night. And I stumbled in, I was exhausted and super, you know, just worn out. And what was funny is it just so happened that that native guy that I was trapping with came in that same night even later than me, and we'd both just been through these miserable experiences. Who knows what had happened? And I like laid down in my bed and he came in. I was like, oh, how was— like, hey, Yura, how was your day? Like, you know, yeah, I hadn't seen him for weeks. All right, sucked. And he went to sleep and I went to sleep and It's like, that's all you— I don't know what happened to him, you know, what horrible experiences he went through that day. But it's just funny, it's all just summed up and, oh, it sucks, go to sleep, wake up the next day and do it again. Yeah, it's kind of funny. But no, that pops into mind.

But Jordan, what outdoor gear do you consider essential that you always take with you for any type of situation that you might find yourself in?

Well, you know, good. But I, now I always have like a Ferro rod with me or something, some kind of fire starting ability, which lighters can be a little unreliable. So something, I'll take that. I like, as far as like spending time in the woods, I think an axe is invaluable. And like a lot of the natives will say, you know, if you can, if you have an axe, you can survive with nothing else, basically, if you know what you're doing. So. So, that's a big essential tool. It's not something you always take in an American context.

Sure.

But, that's an essential tool. And then, little fishing gear. I like to have a few little fishing things just because that's going to be your base if you ever need it. So, a survival kit wouldn't have to be a lot. It wouldn't have to have a lot if I was going to strip it way down. You know, you need to fire, some kind of basic food, some kind of basic cutting, you know, a Leatherman. I always have a Leatherman. There you go. But, and you can do a lot with just those things.

Yeah.

But the right knowledge. But, uh, yeah, so fire starter, Leatherman, and you're set. And probably what I would recommend is hooks, like fishing hooks and some kind of string. Because making that stuff is incredibly impractical.

It's really cold and your fingers are freezing, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Oh man, that's the worst. Like, you all think you can do it, but wait until you actually need to do it. It's a whole different situation, you know? Like, yeah. Yeah.

Jordan, are there any brands that you just love who just do a fantastic job of the quality of their gear?

Brands? That's a good question. I mean, I've I really like the guys at Kefaru that make like hunting packs and teepees. So for one, the owner, and that means a lot, you know, it's been really generous and really nice, a cool dude, you know, Aaron Snyder. And yeah.

Yeah.

But their gear is awesome. So their packs are really well made. I really like them. And the teepee that I got from them is, you know, I take my family up in it and we spend weeks together. It's just like a Great piece of gear. The natives would love one. It'd be fun to take them one someday. But it's so lightweight, quick to set. That's cool. I like so I like Kaffar. I like oh I mean I could rattle off a bunch. But yeah, the the clothing gear is a funny one because it's like but it's kind of your taste too. I mean I wore all that new gear on. On, um, alone, and I think their gear is awesome. I really liked it. I, uh, I think I, I had— I haven't used all the other brands, so it's— I can't really say compare this and that. But, uh, I've heard the guys that run Sitka are real cool guys, and all the gear I've had of Sitka is really good. And same with Kryptek. I've heard they're awesome folks down in Idaho. So, you know, I don't know. Just whatever. I think it's kind of preference. I like, um, Siberian nomadic reindeer fur boots in the cold winters. Those are the ones to get if you can get your hands on them. I like also— so I want to make an axe. I haven't quite made it happen yet, but those Siberian axes they use, like this, they're, they're just better than any axe I can get in the States, which to me is very bizarre because it's such a simple tool. What's different about Well, they have a broad cutting bit. So like, oh, so a lot of those Gransford Brooks and stuff have like really narrow cutting bits, which is kind of annoying. They have a wide eye also, which the Gransford Brooks and stuff don't have. So they're less likely to break. And you can also then put the handle in like a slip-on, kind of like a tomahawk where you slide it through, and which is— I like better than a wedge. And then the Evenki sharpen them from one side so that they kind of have a chisel grind so that working with it, like doing fine work with it, is a lot more effective. All that to say, it's like you can't quite find an axe in the States with those features. And, and so maybe— I've brought some over from Russia, but they're kind of hit or miss on steel quality. So it'd be cool to make Make—

might be an opportunity there.

Forest axe. Oh, for sure. Yeah, totally. Um, so we'll see. It's a bit— we've talked to like producers and using high-grade steel and all that, and it's, uh, definitely a big investment. So it's a little scared of the risk, but it's— the world needs it. And then, uh, yeah, uh, anyway, yeah. Um, Yeah, brands, I guess. Yeah, there's, you know, there's a lot of brands I like, but that won't go too long on that.

Jordan, is there a book or books that have had a big impact on your life?

Yeah, I think the one that impacted me the most just because of when I read it was The Gulag Archipelago. I probably read when I was 20, 21, and it, I read a lot of those kind of heavier books when I was young. They really put a lot of perspective on, on life. You know, you can learn a lot from others' experiences and the wisdom of others. And fortunately, you know, by reading what Solzhenitsyn observed and bore witness to in Russia and stuff, you just think, man, the amount of suffering that the people went through. And, uh, but it puts anything that I could have complained about in my own life in perspective, for one. But, it also shows you the value of like, he talked a lot about happiness not quite being your highest goal. And, I think that was a really important lesson for me as a young— you hear that a lot, just be happy. But, he would have— and then, he would bring forth examples of these people that for the sake of their own life, You know, would trample everybody else down around him. But he's like, but the people that were really lights in those prison camps were like those grandmas who just were like a little candle in that hellish environment. And they died just like everybody else, but they were like, they kept their souls intact. And I was like, oh wow, that's interesting. So like, following, you know, having that slightly higher purpose than just happiness was But also not, and also having perspective on my suffering. Reading a book like that when I was what I was allowed me to kind of do some of the things that I did without leaving when it was miserable.

We'll definitely add that into the show notes.

Yeah.

Do you have a favorite podcast you listen to?

I like Dan Carlin Hardcore History. That's a good one. And then I like What other ones do I look forward to coming out? I've been listening to one called The Fall of Civilizations, which is a well-done podcast. I like history stuff. I listen to a lot of audiobooks and a lot of history and this and that. So those 2 podcasts I recommend.

Great. We'll definitely get those added in the show notes as well. Jordan, what's one piece of advice you'd leave with our audience today?

Yeah, take the time, I guess. Take the— a lot of times what you— what's cool when you go out in the wilderness is you have time to think deeply, which is something we amazingly don't have very often anymore with our phones and distraction all around. So, take the time to think deeply about what matters to you and organize your life around that. You know, and yeah, I think that's important. So, we live at an amazing time right now where you're not going to starve to death. You know, like, if you're trying to keep up with the Joneses, you know, you can keep pretty busy. But, if you figure out what your priorities are, we actually have the potential to align our lives with them.

Yeah.

I'd say take the time to figure out what they are. Don't just keep, you know, trudging along without a thought towards that.

Yeah, no, that's good advice. Thank you. And just to wrap up today, where can people learn about you online?

I'm mostly on Instagram, so that's the best place. It's @hobojordo. But then, well, I also have a website that has jordanjonas.com. Has more information on the courses, which I think somebody can't—a few people cancelled. So they were full, but now there's a few openings. And then I'm gonna be releasing more weeks of you know at some point here in the future. So if you follow Instagram, which goes to Facebook also, but also or go on my website, I have a mailing list there that people can sign up for. So you don't have to be on Instagram because that's. I don't recommend it if you don't have to be. And so, yeah, go on jordanjonas.com and sign up on the email list or go to Instagram.

Super great. Jordan, thanks so much for your time today. I've had a really enjoyable conversation with you.

And yeah, it's fun. I appreciate the invite.

Yeah. And for all of you guys listening out there, until next time, stay wild.

Thanks for listening to the Rewild Gear Podcast. You could check out the show notes for today's episode at rewildgearpodcast.com. If you're ready to spend more time in the wild, our line of high-quality, minimalistic outdoor gear can help you do just that. Check us out at rewildgear.com.