Ep 4: Interview with Rewild Gear Partner & Brother Josh Spears

Welcome to the Rewild Gear Podcast. Modern life, society, and responsibilities have domesticated us, but now it's time to rediscover your adventurous side. Whether that's camping, hiking, hunting, fishing, or just spending time in the great outdoors, this is the podcast for you. Join us as we get back to the wilderness and rewild.

Welcome back to the Rewild Gear Podcast.

Welcome to the Rewild Gear Podcast. I'm your host, Seth Spears, founder of Rewild Gear, and I am here today with my brother, Josh Spears, one of the 4 brothers involved with our fun project, and he's the only one who has not been on the show yet. So really happy to have him on today to talk about all things Rewild, nature, outdoors, and his involvement and his love of the outdoors. Josh, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much. Excited to get this rolling and Have a little fun, see where this goes.

Yeah, for sure. So, um, you were not at deer camp, um, this past, uh, fall, and myself, Adam, and David were, and we had a rip-roaring good time. Many jokes were made at your expense. Um, there was a few deers that were, um, that were harvested, including the, uh, family and property record by Adam, a huge 10-pointer. And also, um, my oldest son Tony got his first deer as well. So it was a great all-around time. But we did record 2 initial episodes, um, uh, 2 of the first podcast episodes, uh, there while at deer camp. And so you weren't there for that. And then also, um, this is episode 4, and episode 3 was with David and myself, uh, as well at the cabin talking, talking about how things are progressing. So want to get you on here and, uh, you know, talk a little bit about the company and the gear and all kinds of stuff like that. Cool.

So sounds great.

So first of all, why don't you introduce yourself, who you are, your background, what you do, all that stuff?

Yeah. So my name is Josh Spears, one of the 4 brothers involved in this project. And my background, you know, grew up in the hills of Kentucky, green grass.

You call it hills?

I call it hills. And From Kentucky, we, at a young age, I think we all developed a deep love for the outdoors. We had this property of about 7 acres, I think it was. And some of my best memories were going over there and just running amok.

Including the time you tried to blind me with a paintball.

Yeah, definitely including that time. That might've been the highlight.

That was one of the worst times that I ever had over there.

We can come back to that.

Or not.

Or not. But so I've always loved the outdoors, loved movement just in general. Spent a lot of time working in the fitness space and tying my love for just movement outdoors with fitness, which is a lot of fun. And now got kids and working to instill that same love for the outdoors in them, which so far I think it's, it's worked pretty well. We tend to spend quite a few nights every year out under the stars, which is always fun, various locations. And, you know, just trying to enjoy this thing we call life.

So. So we're all trying to, yes.

Right, right. So yeah, currently I love outdoors, movement, and wine. And so it's a—

What is your current favorite wine right now?

I don't know that I have a current favorite at the moment. I'm actually drinking a rosé from Uh, well, here you go. I'll just show you. Um, got a little load of wine.

Fantastic.

So, but, um, yeah, so I don't have a favorite wine at the moment. Um, I'm in Arizona, so we've got, you know, quite a bit of heat out here. So it's definitely rosé season.

Gotcha. Rosé all day.

So yeah, yeah. So.

Super great. So you've been in the wine business for a little bit as well. Um, So I don't know if you want to get into too much of that, that, you know, there's something within nature and within agriculture in general. And as part of the company, one of the things we're focusing on is having a conservation ethic and trying to help regenerate regenerative agriculture and improve our soils. And obviously, you know, wine can be a crop that is sprayed quite a bit. So I know you've seen a little bit of that.

Yeah.

And have tried to focus on a little bit the more natural ways to do that.

Yeah.

What other, what other things are you seeing Just in your world as far as, um, kind of that, that movement and health side and, uh, kind of like that conservation side?

Sure, sure. Yeah, no, that's a great question. And I, you know, I think over the last probably 5 years or so, there's been a bigger push for more understanding of where your, your food, drink, what have you is coming from, right? And With that being said, not only having an understanding but also an appreciation for the extra work that goes into making things in a more natural, wholesome way. Now, that being said, there when I was in Lodi and they were doing a lot of great stuff out there in the wine industry, focus focusing on. More of that holistic approach, if you will, to growing grapes and making wine, you know, less chemicals. And one of the programs they had out there, Low Dive Rules, where basically a sustainability program for the wine industry out there, the grape-growing region. And You know, so putting owl boxes out there and just trying to let nature work within nature to keep pests away from the vineyards. Um, and, you know, taking some of those approaches, um, to try to work with nature. And I think that's been really cool to see also just from a, um, conservation standpoint. realizing that when nature is working in harmony, it's a beautiful thing. You know, we've gotten so far away from that as a society that I think it's really important and needed to see some of that coming back, focusing on the land that we're farming today. But you also wanna farm hundreds and, you know, countless years into the future.

Yeah.

By making sure that you're not destroying, you know, the land we're living on.

That's a great point. When it comes to the wine industry in general, a few years ago I went to Italy and we did a whole tour of all of these dry-farmed wines where they're not watering them and, you know, they're not spraying pesticides and all of that. And one of the things that I noticed is in like, say, Napa Valley and Lodi, the whole wine region in the US, you know, they're very nicely manicured and beautiful and picturesque. But a lot of these places in Italy that we went to, these vineyards, They didn't look like that. They were much more natural, if you will. So they weren't spraying Roundup or anything else underneath vines. Um, there were bugs, you know, around and there was grass and some like clover and herbs and, you know, what some people would call weeds surrounding it. But, um, the way they explained it was it all works in harmony with nature, with the terroir. Uh, and so it was just really interesting to see all of that. Yeah. The biodiversity there too.

Right. No, for sure. And, you know, there's some people have a slightly different approach on that. Some are focused a lot on aesthetics. So there's part of, you know, keeping it clean and everything like that. Right. No, absolutely. And we, we tend to take a slightly different approach just with our winemaking in general out here and growing.

Yeah.

Now, I will say that there's, again, more of a push for a more of a— and I say this in quotation marks— but natural wine in the sense of, you know, native fermentation. Um, if they do water, it's limited.

Yeah.

Um, you know, so it kind of gearing more towards that. Um, and there's— we're also seeing that there's a lot more people that are kind of drawn to that, more of the kind of boutique Smaller styles of wine that you can tell that there's been there's a story behind it. Yeah, from the farmers to the winemakers and everything. And again, I think that's a really cool thing to see more people being drawn to that type of program.

Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. What one of my favorite wine companies or importers is Dry Farm Wines, and so they only work. with, with those winemakers who are dry farming their wines and making sure that they're not spraying with any pesticides or, you know, Roundup or anything like that. And so they're super high quality and then lower alcohol wines too. So those are always pretty good. That's kind of an aside, but yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

So let's, let's talk a little bit about Rewild Gear. Yeah. Are you most excited about?

So there's quite a bit. I think any time you get a chance to work on a project and spend time in the outdoors while taking ideas and putting those into an actual tangible product, I think that's really exciting. And again, you know, we've spent countless hours just talking about the ideal fill in the blank, whether it be a knife, a pot, a—

Ad nauseam.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fork, spoon, stove, etc., right? And I'm really excited. And part of this is just because I love knives in general, but I'm super excited about the knife. And we all know that the countless, you know, moments spent not just in the field practicing with or utilizing different tools and different knives, but also just in refining the design that we have here. And I'm super excited about that. Really, really pleased with how that's—

I'd like to dig into the knife a little bit more because I think it was you and myself that originally started talking about creating the quote unquote perfect knife. I probably, while sitting around the campfire, I think camping 10 years ago or something. Yeah, maybe longer. Yeah. If memory serves me, and correct me on this, I think we were probably like up at Red River Gorge or something.

I think you're right. Yeah. Yeah.

Do you remember that story?

Or more details? Yeah, vaguely. We were talking about kind of the go-to knife, right? Like what if you're just grabbing your gear and going, what are you taking with you? And, you know, we've all got a decent collection of knives for various reasons. Some more than others. Right, right. Trying to find that perfect one. And we started throwing out ideas like, okay, I really like this one, but I dislike this. And we all kind of had similar ideas, but then everybody had kind of their own unique, well, I really like this, or I really don't, right? And so in the process of figuring out what this would look like, you know, we've continued over the last 10 years or whatever it's been now. Buying knives, using them a lot, and saying, okay, this one worked really well in this situation. This one did not. And it's funny because even on our calls as we're designing the knives, sometimes we'll go off on a tangent that's completely unrelated to anything that we're supposed to be focusing on. And then, you know, usually a story comes up also. Like, I remember when We were— I was probably 10, and, um, Adam had this pocket knife that he, um, I think he had recently got it, and he was cutting, uh, it was an ink cartridge from like a copier fax machine.

Uh, I don't like where this is going.

No, no, no. Well, I was the guy holding the Cartridge.

Oh, of course.

I still have a scar to show the battle wounds. You can see that right on the thumb. Um, definitely should have had stitches for that, but didn't. Took forever to heal. Um, and, uh, anyway, so from, from, you know, moments like that to present day designing the— what we refer to as the ultimate utilitarian knife, the kind of your go-to. Yeah, whether you're skinning large game, small game, whether you're doing camp chores, even in the kitchen, like it works great. So love the materials we're using and the feel is fantastic. So really excited about it.

Of the 4 of us brothers involved in this project, you're probably the most knowledgeable about the different types of steel. I know you've kind of gone down a lot of rabbit holes and just imbibed yourself in YouTube reviews and tutorials and just really digging deep into the steel.

Yeah.

Do you want to talk a little bit about that, about what you love about the S35VN that we're using and why we decided to use that?

Yeah, so we went, we went back and forth on a few different steels. And, you know, in a perfect world, you would have one that has a perfect balance, right, of corrosion resistance, edge retention, toughness. Right. So you'd have a—

Ease of sharpenability.

Ease of sharpening. Yeah, exactly. So you'd have a perfect blend of this. Unfortunately, there's a compromise. So if it's super tough, probably not going to be as easy to sharpen. If it's, you know, if it's like a carbon steel, it's going to rust if it gets wet. So there's some of those things that trying to find a balance and S35VN seemed to have the closest balance between all those.

Yeah.

And it, you know, it holds an edge well, easy enough to sharpen, good corrosion resistance, and enough toughness. That made sense, right? And, and then a lot of that comes down to the heat treat, which you know, we're excited about how that's been heat treated and all that because they do a great job.

Yeah.

And so, you know, trying to find that balance, S35VN was the one that seemed to have the most— it seemed to make the most sense and be as close to fit into that perfect universe as possible for a blade steel. So we're super excited about that because You know, when you're out in the field, you don't necessarily want to be thinking, okay, do I have to oil my knife all the time? Is it gonna rust? Is it gonna— you know, because we've used— I have used 1095 forever. And well, I mean, it's great.

We're all pretty big fans of ESEE knives.

And yeah, exactly.

Yep, they rust.

Yeah, the downside is they rust. And, you know, my experience has been they rust pretty easily.

And especially when you're taking— using it as a dive knife.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Um, but, um, but that's the thing, because you— we wanted something that would be— you can use around water. Um, again, we're not saying go take it diving, but you can use it around water. Um, you can, you know, beat it enough, you can do anything that you would need to do with the Knife is a tool and it'll survive, keep going and last forever.

That's the plan anyway.

Yeah. Yeah.

So, you know, when we were really starting to dig into the steels, I looked at Blade HQ. They have a diagram, like a review of all the different primary knife steels that are in use. Yeah. Tool steels, knife steels, the different primary ones. And so I went through that pretty meticulously and looking at that balance that you were talking about because it's like a— it's like a graph, you know, like an x-axis. And kind of balanced, like how well is the edge retention, its corrosion resistance, it's how sturdy it is, like all of those different factors. And so, and for me being a very visual person, that made a lot of sense just seeing that because it seemed to be the most rounded and balanced of all of those.

Yeah.

And I found that—

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And they've got some great information on there just diving into the steels a little deeper. And we could talk knife steels all day, but a lot of people would get really bored by that.

Yeah. Just one other question about, about the knife steel though. What was your second favorite? Like if you were going to choose one other steel other than S35VN?

Yeah, the— right. No, that's a good question. The other one that I really like is CPM-3V.

And That—

so the— it has some corrosion resistance, but it's not a stainless steel. Um, and super high, um, toughness. So you can beat it, you can do a lot to it, and it'll just keep going. Um, and that, that was a decent, um, ease of sharpening also, especially for the toughness that it has. And that was my second favorite steel, if not S35VN.

Yeah.

Yeah. So CPM-3V.

Gotcha. Yeah, both great steels. And, you know, we went back and forth a lot on it. And I started really looking into a lot of the more corrosion-resistant ones like the LC200N and some of those.

Yeah.

Which— yeah, but then those are a lot harder to sharpen and a little bit softer and things like that. So Right. Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

So, Josh, one of the things that you're really big into is the water. Um, and actually all of us are, but you probably more specifically having taught swimming lessons for a long time.

Yeah.

How does— how has that affected, you know, your love of nature and the outdoors and like some of the activities that you like to do and, and all that?

Yeah. So when, when I tell people that I live in the desert, um, a lot of times they laugh. They're like, you realize that the desert is the opposite of water. Like, yeah, that's actually a good point. So that being said, any time I'm going outside hiking, adventuring, planning, whatever, I'm making sure that there is going to be a body of water that I end up near. So when I was in California, that was basically what all my trips revolved around, making sure that there's a body of water.

Mm-hmm.

You know, whether it be camping somewhere, hiking, just as long as I'm ending up in water, I'm happy. And so it's, it's been a lot of fun because, you know, I mentioned this in the beginning, trying to instill that love of, of the wilderness and nature into my kids. And, um, even if we're at random places and there's like a lake or something, The kids want to go swimming, which is great, but at the same time, it's not always great to swim in a random waterfall in the middle of the city.

Oh yeah.

The downside of that. But, you know, so we love the water. I think that there's something just nourishing to the soul and I think it just helps to bring balance when you're out in nature around water, from the sound of a waterfall to just watching the breeze move over the water, you know, skim the surface. I think it's very, very calming, but it's also really easy to get very present when you're, when you're experiencing that.

Um, almost meditative.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Um, yeah, I mean, one of, one of my favorite things, um, just out in nature, like just being present, seeing the water. Um, and then I always take a, um, like a leather, another thing that I think all of us brothers love is leather. So I have like a leather journal. Um, take it when I'm out in nature and just write.

Hmm.

Whatever comes, usually nonsense, but whatever it's, you know, but it's interesting. Sometimes I'll get ideas, sometimes I will get clarity on things. Sometimes it's just like random scribbles, doodles, what have you. And I think it's also a really good way to put things in perspective. Like, if you're sitting on a beach and you're looking out at the vast ocean, wow, right? Like, a moment in time is all we have on this earth. That ocean has existed since the beginning of time. How many people have been in my same boat, sitting on that beach, staring out, and just mesmerized by the power of that water?

Yeah.

And, yeah, I think it also helps you to ask bigger questions as well.

That's a good point.

Yeah.

Talk to me a little bit about swimming lessons. I know that's something you've been pretty passionate about over the years and have done, given a lot of lessons and taught a lot of kids how to swim, including your own, and help with mine as well.

Yeah.

And how do you see that as part of your mission as far as getting people in the outdoors and into nature and Tell me a little bit more about that.

Yeah, yeah, sure. Um, yeah, where to start? So, you know, I think I started teaching, I guess I was in high school still, and, um, ended up getting certified through the American Red Cross. Loved it, you know, around the water. And, um, I found out that I was actually really good at teaching. And it was one of those things that Um, I realized, yeah, kind of my claim was I can teach anyone to swim in 5 steps. Give me 14 days. Anyone. I challenge somebody to present someone that—

That's pretty damn good.

Yeah. Yeah. Um, now does that mean they'll, they'll be an Olympic swimmer? No. But will they be able to learn, you know, the basic steps?

Yeah.

Um, And so, so I loved it. It was fun. It was super fun just to see the excitement. And water is, again, just such a— I have so many positive memories around water, and I wanted to share that with other people. Plus, I think everyone should know how to swim. Like, you never know what life's going to throw at you. Everybody should know how to swim. And So one summer I was in the pool and I was working with, um, I think a small group, and I just kind of stopped. I was like, man, I do the same thing regardless of whether I'm teaching adult or child. It's the same 5 steps over and over again. Now, change my approach a little bit, tone of voice, the games we're playing, right? Like whatever that might be, but It's always the same thing. And I started looking around also. I was like, you know what's not out there? A program that teaches parents how to teach your kids how to swim. We teach our kids how to ride a bike, how to brush your teeth, basic things, right? Why not teach them how to swim?

Kind of a life skill.

Exactly. A basic life skill.

Yeah.

And so I came up with the idea of an online swim course that teaches parents how to teach your kids how to swim in 5 steps. And so that's been a lot of fun. We've gotten really good feedback. And, you know, we have it in a PDF as well as videos. And, you know, with the strange space the world's in right now with things shut down, closed down, and, you know, limited resources and some of that stuff. It's a huge— fills a huge need that's out there right now.

Yeah. The—

I don't remember the numbers off the top of my head, but last summer, the drownings in Arizona skyrocketed, and people were saying because lack of swim lessons and all that stuff. Um, which is really sad.

As an add-on to that, over the past 2 weeks— so I'm in Florida, and so pretty close to the beach, and so there's just been a ton of spring breakers and people down here. And I think there has been about 8 deaths just over the past couple weeks. Um, just drownings. Um, yeah, there's been some storms and the rip currents have been really strong. Sure. Going out there and just not understanding the power of the water. And even if you're a strong swimmer, It's a little different if you're in a pool, if, as opposed to a big—

Yeah, exactly.

Or in a river in a current.

Right, right. Well, and, and no, that's a really good point because I know that I've been out, um, in water where, you know, I like to think I'm at least a decent swimmer, right? And I've been in water, I'm like, okay, this is like, if, if, if you didn't know What to do? Good luck.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? And there's a part of that where, was it the smartest decision to go in that water beforehand? Probably not. But afterwards, you kind of think, yeah, you know, maybe I should. But, you know, live through it and tell another story. But the, but again, like, that's a good point is a lot of times you don't know. What's underneath, right? As far as the rip current, the undertow, some of those things that exist. Um, yeah, so that's really sad, the— yeah, deaths and stuff going on.

Yeah, I mean, water is incredibly powerful. I mean, it's one of the most powerful natural elements there is, and so it can go from very calm to very, uh, not calm, very—

yeah.

Um, so, uh, be Because of that, you just gotta really respect it. There was, you know, the story about the time that Adam and I almost died on the Gasper River trying to rescue, uh, yeah, David and, uh, Joe's canoe.

I still can't believe you guys lost my canoe. I loved that thing.

Blame Joe. Yeah, yeah, definitely Joe's fault for sure. But we'll, we'll get into that story some other time. Not today.

Yeah.

Josh, what's, um, what's your favorite outdoor adventure story? something that you've been involved in or like your experience somewhere in nature or something that you've done. Give us a story.

Yeah, man, favorite. That's a tough one. Probably, I mean, the one that stands out the most. So this was 2009. So end of summer and so it was like, yeah, late August, I guess. And we went to Yosemite, which is just a beautiful place. If anybody hasn't been, highly recommend you go. And we got to hike Half Dome. So this was the last year that you could just hike without having to get a permit and all that stuff.

Oh, you can't do that anymore?

No.

Really?

You, it's, I think they have like a draw. Yeah, it's kind of hard to get permits now. So I've talked to quite a few people that have tried to go and they haven't had success yet. So, but yeah, and so that was the last year and awesome hike at the top. There's these cables that you use to get to the top and the view's just absolutely spectacular and it's a pretty long hike. Um, and so this was with, um, myself and my wife and then, uh, 2 of the brothers and, uh, one of them being Joe. Uh, his nickname after this trip was GPS. So we, we, so we made it there a really good time. And, you know, we, we planned it out so we'd have enough water, get to the top. And then once you get back down, there's, um, There are a few places where you can refill, right? And so got to the top. We hung out there for a while taking pictures, just relaxing, enjoying the, you know, beauty of Half Dome. And, um, so we started coming down and Joe's like, hey, let's, uh, let's go this way. It's a shortcut. Like, okay. And so you have to understand this about Joe. Like when he's on, And he's usually really good with direction, but, but when he's off, he's off. And this case, he was really off. So we started going down, and, you know, they always tell you, don't, you know, don't go off the trails in, in the park and everything, this, that, whatever.

Of course.

So, um, we went off and I'm like, Joe, you sure this is— sure this is a shortcut? And he's like, yeah, yeah, just down a little ways and then it's going to loop around and get right back on the trail and we'll have saved tons of time. Cool. All right. And so probably at least an hour, like, Joe, I don't know if this is working out. And, but, you know, we're having fun. It's like, whatever, you know, not even thinking too much about it. Then probably like an Maybe an hour and a half or so into it, Joe's like, whoa. Joe, you okay? He's like, I don't know. I'm not feeling so good. Joe, are you sure it's not because you took us the wrong way? And he's like, no, man. Like, I don't know what's going on. I gotta sit down.

Um, oh boy.

I guess he was having, he was having some altitude sickness.

Oh, and what was the elevation?

Oh gosh, I can't remember. Um, I'm gonna have to look that up actually, because I, I don't remember off the top of my head now.

Yeah, no biggie.

Um, yeah, anyway, and, um, and so he just like sat down, and at this point, like, our water supply is getting really, really low. And again, because we had planned this out, so enough to get there on the trail, a couple miles in, and, and back to the next Refill. So at this point, we probably, we probably went about 2 miles or so in the wrong direction.

Mm-hmm.

And we're almost outta water and Joe's having altitude sickness. And so we kind of stop, regroup, and, you know, we're kind of debating, hey, do we go around here? Do we go back up? Long story short, we end up deciding, okay, we're gonna have to go right back up where we were.

Oh man.

And again, this is an extra 2 miles, almost out of water. So we start going and we have to go a lot slower because Joe's like not doing well. And so we finish up the rest of our water. We're like, wow, this is horrible. This is so miserable because sun's beating down. We're exhausted at this point and we've still got another mile or so just to get back to the trail. And then we've got another couple miles to get to the next water.

And what time of day of this?

It's probably around like 4 at this point.

Okay.

So it's, it's like starting to get dark.

Getting late afternoon.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Later afternoon, 4 or 5. And so, so we start hiking back up, we stop and then we're like, okay, so Uh, Joe and, um, Bridget stayed in this spot. We're like, hey, Dave and I are gonna go up there. We've gotta get some water. Like, you know, Joe's not doing well and my mouth is absolutely parched. Like, I can't even talk.

Like sandpaper.

Yeah. Yeah. And so we get up there and at this point there's not that many people on the trail because this late not many people are You know, still trying to summit. And so there's a guy with these 2 kids, like teenagers, and I go to ask them for some water. Literally nothing came out of my mouth. It was so dry. And so Dave was able to manage like, you guys got any water? And so they had 2 like 16-ounce bottles of water. They gave one to each of us. So Dave and I pounded one, brought the other one back to, um, Joe and Bridget. Finally they had enough energy, so kept going. Finally made it back to the trail. At this point, it's almost dark. Like it's a lot later and now no one's really on the trail. Um, and so we're walking, we find this spot where there's some water. Now, you know, it's later in the summer. So, um, a lot of the water will dry up, especially if they haven't had a ton of snow and all that stuff. And so, um, so this water was like filthy. I mean, leaves, uh, I mean, like, not the leaves are that bad, but there was just like still water, right? Like nothing that you'd really want to drink.

Hello, Giardia.

Yeah, exactly. Luckily, Dave had his Katadyn pocket filter, and so kind of spread the leaves away and whatever the scum was on top, stuck it in there, started pumping. I don't think I have ever been so grateful for water. Finally, Joe felt better. Like, he— we just started pouting water, all of us. We sat there forever. By the time we got back, it was almost midnight, and we, we had left that morning at like sunrise.

Whoa.

Um, so I think we ended up doing— so after we figured the loops and whatever else we did, um, I think we ended up doing like 20, maybe 20-something miles.

Oh my goodness.

That trip. It's not supposed to be that long.

That's a long hike.

Yeah, and on limited water. So, so, um, yeah.

How did Joe's directions get so far off?

Honestly, none of us really know what happened. None of us really know what happened. Um, and like, looking back, I can kind of see because it looked like If you went down and then it looked like it was going to loop around. But the problem was the trail would have looped up a lot higher and then kept going that way. Does that make sense?

Yeah.

So by the time we had hiked down that far, we would have had to hike another 8 miles maybe to get— I don't know, 8 miles, but 5 miles or so to get back on the trail. So Wow. Um, either way, fun times. So now I, I have this thing with making sure I always have water and then extra water. Yeah.

2 is one and one is none, right?

That's right.

When it comes to water, even more so.

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

So that, that's a fantastic story and a perfect segue into this question. And I, and And you've already answered a little bit, but what essential gear do you always take with you no matter what when you're spending time in nature or the outdoors?

Yeah, obviously water.

We know David has a water filter. Have you made some too?

Yeah, I, I actually keep a Sawyer, one of the minis in my pack.

Oh yeah.

So I like it because it's small enough that you can, you know, throw it in there. It doesn't really add much weight and it's got the pouches. Which are handy, you know what I mean? So I keep that. Water bottle, of course. A knife, usually multiple knives, but at least one. Flashlight. And then, I mean, I'm just gonna keep it simple. And then some type of like first aid kit, but with that is usually some duct tape and some type of paracord or something along those lines. So it was like the most basic. Obviously there's typically more stuff, but even, even just on like shorter hikes, I'll at least have that stuff with me.

Josh, what outdoor brands do you just love right now? What, what companies, brands, gear that you think are just doing a great job in terms of quality or their branding, their messaging, things they're doing when it comes to conservation? Any of those criteria? Who do you just love?

Yeah, really good question. Um, you know, when I think of outdoor gear, um, I think of some of the brands that I first initially kind of fell in love with. One of them was Mountain Hardwear. Um, oh yeah, I've, I've been a big Mountain Hardwear for years now. I have a jacket, um, that I've had since I don't know, 2009 probably.

Okay.

Um, 2009, 2008, something like that. Or yeah, and, um, still in great shape, you know, and, and I love it. Um, so I'm a big fan of Mountain Hardwear.

Uh, you know, they got bought by Columbia a few years ago, right?

Yeah, yeah, I, I remember hearing that. Um, and I had talked to a couple people about You know, quality—is that shifting? Is it changing? And let's see this guy. I think he works for. Well, I'm drawing a blank now on the outdoor company he was with. But but he was saying that you know at that level most of them are pretty pretty comparable. You know as far as quality and this that he said that Columbia at the time was doing some had some cool technology that they were using with their. jackets with some of the reflective, um, uh, like thermal reflective materials and stuff they were using.

Yeah.

Um, but, uh, yeah, I mean, as far as quality, I don't know that I've noticed or seen anything different since, you know, them getting bought out however many years ago that was now. Um, but, uh, yeah, I'm, I'm a big fan of Mountain Hardwear. Um, you know, if, if you're You know, we've talked knives a lot, you know, going that route. There's, you know, ESEE that again, we've all, you know, big, big fans of. Another cool company is Bradford Knives. They've got some cool stuff. And they use CPM-3V, the steel we were talking about earlier.

Mm-hmm.

So those are a couple that I think do a really good job. And even just Even just the way they connect and reach out, you know, the owners and everything, they do a good job at some of that, which I think says a lot about the company. So those are a couple that really stand out.

Anyone else?

Let's see. I mean, I know we've all been really big into MeatEater and, you know, some of the stuff they do just They're a fun brand, right? Like they've got a lot of cool things.

And they really care.

Right, right. They really—

At least it seems that way.

Yeah. Great educational stuff out there. Entertaining. I find relatable information. And I think it's cool when you find a company that kind of has that whole thing. packaged together like they do. So it's— and conservation-wise, they're doing some great stuff. So I'd say those.

Yeah, it's interesting how many smaller brands that they're actually buying right now.

You know what, I've read a little bit on that. It sounds like they're really just growing in general, but also being really strategic about kind of their next steps in their Their ventures.

Yep. Yeah, exactly. What, what can we all do to help improve the outdoor experience? What advice would you give for people listening?

Yeah.

What would your recommendation be there?

First and foremost, just get outside. And it can be something as simple as Going to a park and walking, right? Because I know that there's some people that spend so much time inside that literally just going to a park is a big step for them, and that's fine, right? Like baby steps wherever you are.

If you live in New York City, go to Central Park. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

However you can. Yep, yep. Exactly, exactly. But even, you know, taking it another step forward, I'd say take a weekend and get a tent, grab, you know, some basic gear and just get outside. Just get outside, go camping, find a spot close by if you don't want to make the trek and just get outside. And then on top of that, I would say start making a list of places you want to go. And explore and go do it. Like, yeah, because there's so much. I think— I feel like so many times people get caught up in, oh, I want to go to this country, I want to go here and do that. And that's great, but like, we've got some incredible stuff in our backyards.

Yeah.

And I can't tell you how many times I talked to people, um, that have never explored some of the beauty that is 30 minutes away, an hour away, right? And, you know, these same people are talking about, you know, these overseas adventures and all that, which is fine, don't get me wrong. There's a lot of fun stuff to do overseas. But I would say just get outside and take advantage of what's around you.

Yeah, great advice. What is your personal favorite outdoor activity?

That is really, really hard to answer. So I love hiking, getting outside, but I love camping and I love water. So if I can hike really long, preferably a really strenuous hike that ends with a campsite, so camping somewhere next to water where you can swim and do whatever else. And then if it's in a place where you can, you know, live off the land, icing on the cake. Meaning hunting, catching your own food, that type of thing. Yeah.

So your love for water, I'm actually really surprised that you're not more into fishing.

You know what's funny? I Uh, I'm, I'm laughing because I was telling somebody this story the other day. Um, I think I was like 11, maybe 12, and I don't remember who all was there. Some of the brothers, and we may have had a couple friends anyway, and we were, we were going fishing.

Oh, that's cool.

So we sat there, you know, we're fishing away. Um, I got so bored. We had a, we had a BB gun. I said, I handed the pole to somebody, I went over, grabbed the BB gun, and I would look around for anything moving in the water and just start firing. Um, I'm not a good fisherman for whatever reason. I like Yeah, I'm just not good at it. Um, and maybe that means I need to spend more time practicing the art of fishing. Maybe it means I need to, um, uh, be okay with a little bit more of doing nothing. I don't know. But I was thinking of that the other day and I was like, I really haven't gotten into fishing too much after that.

Gotcha. You haven't really tried fly fishing, have you?

I have not. No, that's true. I've not tried fly fishing. Yeah.

I definitely like that more than just traditional rod and reel.

Yeah. Yeah. I'll have to give that a shot.

Yeah. Josh, what book or books have had the biggest impact on your life?

You know, it's— that's such a hard question. There's probably 2 that come to mind. The first one, Power to the People by Pavel Tsatsouline. He's the guy that brought kettlebells over to the US. I think it was in '99, early 2000s. I think it was '99. And his methodology and simplicity, I fell in love with. And you know the premise of it in a nutshell is you don't need a lot of flashy equipment, fancy exercises to be strong and healthy. His focus was more on just strength. Doesn't really matter size; just focus on strength. And so that was the book that really kind of shifted my focus on fitness and and some of those things. And then. Stumbled across kettlebells, you know, in 2005, I think. 2006, something like that. And so yeah, I would say that one, definitely. Another one that stands out is Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl.

Great book.

Really good book. Auschwitz survivor and just his ability to make sense of the chaos and the horrors that he had to endure and experience. Yeah, those 2 books, I'd say.

Regarding Pavel's book, so one thing you haven't talked about is your background in fitness and being a personal trainer and kettlebell certified and all that. So you want to talk about that just a little bit?

Sure. So I got— I started working in fitness in 2002. I wasn't certified at the time, just helping friends or what have you. Um, the, the beauty about fitness is as long as you know a little bit more than the next guy that you're helping, they think you're an expert.

It's kind of like hunting.

Yeah, it doesn't mean anything. You just know a little bit more than the next guy. So I got certified in 2004 through ACE, American Council on Exercise, and then I loved it. So I trained while I was in college from some of the athletes to the professors, everything kind of across the board. And then, yeah, worked with kettlebells, got to train with some of the just incredible trainers that were really a part of that movement in, you know, mid-2000s to 2010, '12, something like that. Anyway, and really loved that. And fitness is great, but there's so much noise. There's so much noise. And, you know, with social media, it again, taking— as long as you know a little bit more than the next guy, you're an expert. And it got to the point where I would even have clients say, hey, I saw this and this. What do you think? Remember how last week you were complaining about, you know, something was hurting and you weren't sure why? It's because you did what that expert was telling you to do. Like, oh yeah, and I remember. Yeah. Listen, dumbass. Exactly. So it's, it's, you know, it got to a point where it was just, um, there was just so much noise in that space. Um, Now, old habits die hard, right? 5 AM up and still doing my workouts. So, you know, that being said, got to a point where I wanted to just shift gears a little bit. And I found some of my writings from college talking about wine. And my first time wine tasting was in 2006 over in a little town called Cortona in Italy.

Hmm.

And definitely left an impression. And so moved to the next best thing in my book at the time. I wasn't quite going to pick up and go to Italy, but went to Lodi, which ironically enough, there is a Lodi, Italy, so kind of close. And got involved in wine out there. But the whole fitness passion is still there, and I still work with a couple people. Um, but for the most part, just— it, it should be something you do, not— yeah, I'd take it even a step further, it should be who you are. You move every day. Eat real food, drink clean water, move your body. Good things tend to happen.

That's a good point. Yeah. Have you looked into any of the, um, outdoor fitness activities like Train to Hunt and some of the GORUCK type events and things like that?

A little bit. A little bit. And the stuff I've looked at is really intriguing actually. And I think that where the world's at, that there's just going to continue to be more demand for that type of thing. People want to get outside and feel alive again. And a lot of times people don't know what direction to go. How do I get there? And so they're looking for a guide. They need somebody to take them and say, hey, here we go. They're not going to do it for you, but they're going to help guide you. And, um, say that again.

Everyone needs a coach.

Yeah, exactly. Absolutely. And so I think some of those programs are really cool, how they're filling that space. And it also looks like it's not— again, I haven't looked at it super extensively, but the bit that I have, it looks like they're legit and not just a bunch of fluff. Yeah. Like so many other programs out there.

Cool. Yeah. Josh, what's, what's your favorite podcast right now?

You know, I was, I was talking to somebody about that the other day. I— so I'm really funny with podcasts. Like, I'll go really intense into one and then just stop it. And like, I may not listen to it again for a really long time. No real reason behind it. I've just noticed this pattern.

You just get bored with it. Kind of being with the host or like the type of material they're covering.

Yeah, yeah, like, okay. Or, or I may even think, okay, this has been fun, now let's see what else we can learn, you know what I mean? So yeah, just kind of a different approach. Um, there's, um, so I'll listen to, um, from, you know, wine podcasts, um, to fitness To outdoor stuff, to political stuff just for entertainment purposes, to everything in between. So I can't say that I have a favorite podcast. Like, I'm trying to think of the last one I listened to.

What are you going to listen to tomorrow? Which one?

Actually, I will be cycling back to Paul Chek tomorrow. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

So kind of the fitness, ancestral health, that sort of thing.

Yeah. Just because it's been a while since I've been there and yeah. So I'll cycle back to that and that'll probably last for, you know, a few weeks, maybe, maybe a month. We'll see. And then go to the next thing.

Super. Josh, this has been fun. Yeah. Had a good time. Absolutely. Where can people find you online? Other than rewildgear.com.

Right, right. So aside from Rewild, um, so for the Kids Love to Swim, the, the swim program, you can find us kidslovetoswim.com. Um, we are also on Instagram, Kids Love to Swim. Um, my personal Instagram account is, uh, exists but not active. Um, I do have a Facebook account, but I signed up with Facebook when it was real, meaning for college students, the way it should have stayed.

I agree with that.

Um, and, um, so I used my, um, college email address for that, which I no longer have.

Ah.

And I went to log in, uh, And I don't know what my password is, so I don't know if I'll ever be able to log back in to Facebook.

You may just have to start over and create a new account.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, but yeah, the kids love to swim is probably the best bet. And then obviously Josh at Rewild Gear for emails or anything like that.

Sounds good. Thanks, Josh.

Thanks for listening to the Rewild Gear Podcast. You can check out the show notes for today's episode at rewildgearpodcast.com. If you're ready to spend more time in the wild, our line of high-quality, minimalistic outdoor gear can help you do just that. Check us out at rewildgear.com.