Ep 41: Reuben Bolieu on Travel, Blades, & Minimalistic Gear

Welcome to the Rewild Gear Podcast. Modern life, society, and responsibilities have domesticated us, but now it's time to rediscover your adventurous side. Whether that's camping, hiking, hunting, fishing, or just spending time in the great outdoors, this is the podcast for you. Join us as we get back to the wilderness and rewild.

Welcome to the Adventure Made podcast.

I'm your host, Seth Spears, and I'm here today with Ruben Beaulieu. Ruben is an adventurer, an adventurer, a writer, a photographer, a musician, a world traveler, and a survival instructor for Randall's Adventure and Training, who are also the makers of ESEE knives. Ruben has spent most of his life hiking and backpacking through the wilderness of the world. He has traveled abroad in extreme environments from the cold climates of Alaska to the desert heat of Egypt and Jordan and the humid conditions of Southeast Asia and South Africa. He continues studying survival techniques, construction, and the uses of knives and edge tools from places such as South America, Malaysia, the Philippines, Thailand, New Zealand, and numerous countries in the South Pacific and Scandinavia. Reuben is a part-time knife designer and created the TOPS Knives Cub and the ESEE Knives RB3. He has published many articles on survival, knife and tool use, woodcraft, shelters, and remains a lifetime survival student. Reuben and I also had the chance to connect at SHOT Show earlier this year, and we had a great time just conversing about outdoor travel experiences, knives, and everything wilderness-related. Reuben, welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me, Seth. Good to be here.

Super. Yeah, so we had a lot of fun just chatting, me, you, and my brother David, at SHOT Show.

Sure did.

Talked a whole lot about, about knives and the outdoor industry and some of your crazy travel experiences. So just to Just to dig in, how did you get into kind of the outdoor industry? Because it's pretty diverse as far as being an outdoor survival expert and knife designer, outdoor writer, adventurer, all of these different things.

I agree. There's so many different places where somebody could fit in or many different things somebody could do. Like anybody else, I think it always starts when you're young and just growing up in Southern California. We have a lot of big mountains, beautiful mountains there. And hiking with my grandfather and my brother, my cousins, we did a lot of camping, a lot of camping where you could just drive down mountain roads until you couldn't drive anymore and you get out and carry what you can and set up camp. It was a good time to be in the forest then. And I really enjoyed being at the high altitude. And for me, that meant a lot because I went on to doing a lot of different high-altitude type of hikes. And I still to this day enjoy high elevation, long backpacking trips. But it definitely all stemmed from the old camping days with heavy cast iron and just ungodly heavy ice chests. And, uh, because it was, it was just there for fun, you know, we were doing it for fun. It wasn't like—

Sure.

Doing any expedition, although it seems like that when you're a kid. Uh, that really just kind of led to me wanting to go my own way with my gear choice and trip choices. And, uh, I started just doing a lot more, I would say, long distance, like around high school times, started doing long Longer, uh, treks, not just car camping. I really don't have a place at car camp these days. I lose my mind with the people, the noise, and, you know, it doesn't matter.

Oh yeah.

It doesn't matter how, how you do your best to keep it clean, you know, for, you know, keeping critters away and animals. There's always going to be the person next to you or across from you that just leaves everything out and defeats the purpose. And I don't care for the crowds, uh, The noise. And, I think I just enjoy the outdoors in a different way. That being said, I seem to fall in a lot better with the backpacking community where you don't have to be in one designated square place. Sometimes you have to when you're doing big climbs, there's a base camp and that's understood. But, it just really got me doing a lot of hiking trips, backpacking trips that were Meant to be quick, fast peak bagging, as they call them, just to get up and see the view of a high peak. And, in Southern California, we have several peaks that are above 10,000 feet that are amazing to see, to camp on, to camp in. It was probably the most important time for me to get into outdoors. skills-related things. Because when you're just backpacking, you have a great understanding of gear that you carry. And when separated from that comfort zone, that pack, it's, it's a different thing. It's a different thing. And having things on you that you could signal, make fire, do basic— Survival tasks on you, with you, is rare for most backpackers and hikers.

Yeah.

I mean, I think you can relate to that. Some people might just be going out for a quick day hike and just because of that, or if it's a close car camping trip, you get complacent and you don't really, you don't really think you can get turned around and not be seen for days or hours or a week or Worse. That just led to practicing skills and trying to get better base of skills out of whatever I had and still trying to keep very lightweight. All that backpacking and those types of trips just got me doing a lot of things in my area in Southern California that I was pretty happy with physically because it was— there were challenging times. Eventually, I believe it was my cousin who asked me, what are you going to do next? You just did Mount Whitney up and down. You did Grand Canyon up and down and Gorgonio and San Jacinto that are all about 12,000 feet peaks, I think. Yeah, about that. And, it was just kind of running out of cool big things to do about 2006, 2007. And, I always wanted to go on this jungle survival trip I used to see a little ad in a magazine for.

Ah.

Rando Adventure and Training where they take a group of people. It just looks like pure punishment for 14 to 16 days, long treks and things like that. But, I think for most adventurers, most people who like this kind of community, I don't just mean backpacking and hiking, I mean people who really like the outdoors, the adventure part of it, maybe the romance of it, Somewhere in their head is the jungle. And to many people, that is like the ultimate pinnacle of some type of outdoors adventure, a great trip. And for me, it definitely was. I thought about it for almost 10 years when I finally called the number on the ad. I believe it was Tactical Knives magazine. I talked to the co-owner, Mike Perrin. Within 10 minutes, he didn't need— you don't call that number and need someone to convince you. You already have your mind made up. And it didn't take much before Seth signed me up. And lucky for me, there was a class going about 3 weeks from that point. It was— I remember it was November 2007. And I was very excited to go. On that trip was other co-founder and owner Jeff Randall. Now at the time, he had been a magazine writer, photographer. I'd probably been reading his work for about 10 years and watching his— looking at his reviews and then trip reports. And he was great. He had created this, this, this place where he could do these trips, take people out, educate them, give them a trip, take gear. and use in that environment, write articles about it. So that's really what got me interested in the trip in the first place. And on those trips, you can spend, and this is no exaggeration, 8, 9, or 10 hours on a small boat.

Wow.

Just going down the tributaries, down the Amazon first and then the tributaries finding a place. This is with 3 or 4 breakdowns and a hammer and a screwdriver and a machete, kind of doing the Fonzie from Happy Days approach, banging on it to get it to work. Before you get to your, your camp spot or where we're going to start holding the classes, you get time to know each other and talk. And it was Jeff Randall who encouraged me to Maybe get with some of these magazines also and do what he was doing. And at the time, I didn't know anything about a camera or writing. But I was writing a lot on forums, over these outdoors forums that a lot of us were on, a lot of writers, designers, people that have kind of come up over the years doing the same sort of thing. We would post on forums our weekend hikes, our backpacking trips, gear that we liked, gear that we recommended, gear we hated. And we were doing reviews reviews in our own way, as if they were kind of like magazine reviews, just because we had learned from that and doing them on a different scale, lots of photos. And, and so he had seen some of the stuff I did for various forums and thought that that type of reviewing would be good for the magazines. And that is how he— well, that's how he roped me into the outdoors. industry. From that point on, I was writing for magazines and, and doing photos for them. He got me a photo gig with SWAT Magazine at the time. Another writer named Jerry Van Cook was doing an article on, uh, then RAT 4. And, um, I did some field photos for them and got my first, I guess, uh, photo magazine credit. And SWAT Magazine. All I had was a point-and-shoot camera. But I learned early on from, from him that if you have good lighting, that's pretty much all you need. And it really just comes down to lighting. And yeah.

Yeah, that's really cool. So one of the things you mentioned as far as getting started with backpacking and high elevations and how you really resonate kind of with that backpacking community, which I found really interesting because as a knife designer yourself and a gear junkie, most in the backpacking community, kind of like the REI crowd, they're not really into knives. So I find that interesting. And I'd like to hear your take on kind of that overlap there.

Yeah, you're super right. Good point. I would say the REI crowd, backpacking crowd, you— I ended up with many different camps, many different groups of people over the years, group meetups, just people you're sharing base camp next to. Just to make the summit the next day. And people love gear. They love to talk gear.

Oh yeah.

They love to carry gear. And something like a knife is often— it's looked upon as, what do you need that for? Or what are you going to do with that? So I did. I remember my first real long backpacking. It seemed long. It's not long now, but at the time it did. I was doing many local hikes in the mountains there with friends. And one really long trip that stands out to me was a trip up to the highest point in LA, was Mount Wilson. And that was about, I'm going to say about, oh wow, maybe a little bit more than 15 miles for that one day, just up and down, and a little over 8,000 feet.

Wow.

And it was not as high as many hikes, not as long, but something about the terrain and the, just the trail, it seemed longer than it was. And that was one of the first times I realized I didn't need the fixed blade that I had. I don't know what it was. But you think about everything you, you didn't need that you have with you when you do trips like that. And I remember having a Victorinox little Classic.

Oh, yeah.

It just had a— it's a great knife. It really is. And main blade, scissors, tweezers, toothpick, and I think a nail file. I've never felt my nails need to be filed well for a trip. But it served other purposes. And I remember using that for many trips. I used it up until it got taken away at an airport after it was okay to have those again. But—

Common story.

But when I moved up to like a little bit larger of a Swiss Army knife and then would have that around camp, it was kind of like, look at the knife guy, easy Rambo. So the backpacker community is— it's a different community. I, I miss those types of trips. And at the same time, I wouldn't like to go back to as ill-prepared as I was, or the group that I was with. Wouldn't like to go back to that time. So yeah, having a real fixed blade with you, or something larger, is just— it doesn't really happen with that crowd. They're, they're They're not very tool savvy. Well, they have a lot of gear.

That's so odd to me because the knife was like the first tool and it's essential for everything. I mean, like, sure, let's say you break a strap on your backpack, you're gonna— you have cordage or something, you're gonna have to cut it and, you know, fix something there. Or like a shoestring or a boot string or whatever. It's just so essential. I mean, I don't know that I've ever been on a camping trip starting at like age 7 where I did not have a knife with me. So it's just preposterous not to have one.

I agree. I do agree. And one more thing about the same backpacking community is that I feel, I feel that a lot of them do have some kind of emergency kit, let's say, whether it be store-bought, something maybe they put together themselves that is very small that they have on them that may have some very important essential things. And they keep it in their backpack. And to me, something that small and that important should not be kept in your backpack. Yeah, we get separated from our pack a lot during, during trips. It's something that should be on you. And especially a whistle. I've seen so many, so many programs, I think we all have, of Casual backpackers, hikers that just get a little separated from their gear, or they have their gear with them, but they just do not have a way to call out for help that goes beyond the realm of their vocal cords. You can only yell and scream so long, so loud compared to a whistle.

Yeah.

Where it's, it's a bit of an unnatural sound if you're doing it in groups of 3 and you're able to get people's attention. That is so overlooked. I think in classes and schools, in writings, in stories, the ability to signal for help is, to me, it's like at the bottom of the list. And I, I don't think it should be.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And, you know, we're seeing a lot of the new backpacks where the chest strap that comes across will have a whistle built in, which I think is pretty cool.

I've seen that. I do too. You're right. Um, company I do a lot of work with because I like their products and I've just been using their stuff for a while is the SOL company, Survive Outdoors Longer, and Adventure Medical Kits. Now they are under the same umbrella, Adventure Ready Brands. Just recently in the past year, from what I've noticed, tarps and space blankets that they would sell The little cord lock barrel lock is a whistle. Oh, so that is just like an extra, extra thing. But you're right. I have seen a lot of companies with, with the whistle built in. I don't use those types of backpacks, but that doesn't mean I'm going to be without a whistle.

Yeah. Reuben, you had mentioned earlier about really enjoying the higher altitude trips and excursions. So tell me a little bit about that and how you, when going to those higher altitudes, I'm guessing that's above 10,000 feet, what you do as far as to prepare, whether that's for altitude sickness or just getting acclimated to the thinner air and things like that.

Right. That is, that's a good question. And it's a little hard to explain how to get ready for high altitude. From what I understand on all accounts, there's very little you can do to help, to help that. If you have altitude sickness, I have a friend, good friend, we've done so much backpacking together, and he would get altitude sickness at about 5,000 feet. And we get up to 7,000 or 8,000 feet, he's already in headache mode, a little grumpy, very grumpy, and just starting to feel nauseous. And to me, if I'm sick in any way, It's so much harder to enjoy your trip outdoors. And I've heard people with little tricks and gimmicks for high altitude. It is one of those things that you can't really, you can't really improve. I know you can make it worse with caffeine and alcohol that will dehydrate you. Dehydration is going to give you a headache and it's going to make everything bad from that point. I have never heard of or come up with, seen anybody use anything store-bought, any old remedy that helps you with high altitude. I believe you have it or you don't. And, I have a friend, my first trip to Mount Whitney, which is a little under 15,000 feet, it's considered the highest hiking trail in the US. People will argue, no, it's Denali. Denali is not a hiking trail. It's mountaineering, ropes, ladders, all kinds of bad endings to movies. That's not hiking. No, you're not hiking anymore. So, that being said, it has about a 30% success rate. It did in 2007 and '08 when I was doing it.

Wow.

And, to be on a mountain like that with Hundreds and hundreds of hikers. I'm not going to say thousands because they limit the amount that goes into that area a day. And to see all different styles of gear, of pack carry, I'll say that. And really physically, you do what you can. You do the miles you can. You do as much altitude as you can. It's important to train for high-altitude hikes with high-altitude hikes as close as you can get. You don't always have that luxury because Lone Pine in Southern California, which is kind of like the— I'm not going to say it's the base camp, but it is like the small desert city at the bottom of Mount Whitney, is at about 5,000 feet, maybe a little bit lower. And, you have a lot of people coming over from Japan and Europe to hike the highest mountain in the US. They don't have that elevation there. They just don't most places. So, they are already at a disadvantage when they arrive and acclimating in Lone Pine at 5,000 feet, that might be the highest they've ever been.

Wow.

So, staying there for a couple of days, I'm a huge fan of acclimating. That being said, I have never had any effects of high altitude Whether it be Mount Whitney or Cusco, Peru, which is a very, very high altitude. I feel at my best at that altitude and I can't explain it.

That's incredible.

Growing up, growing up in high altitude in Big Bear and just making that like our, our main camping outdoors place, Big Bear, California, and Green Valley, which is just a little bit lower in elevation. I feel that has done something for me as far as expanding your lungs to really open them up and give you that capacity. And, it's not something you can really duplicate. So, my first time up on Mount Whitney was with a friend of mine and we had done all the practice hikes together, all the high-altitude hikes in the area we could together, and Grand Canyon up and down just to get ready for Mount Whitney. And, another friend of ours did none of that and he had no effects to the altitude. He didn't do a lot of training to get himself, kind of a natural athlete, but he was practically skipping and laughing up there and so was I. And, here's our other friend who had done all the same hikes and training. It was about 8 months of just good hiking and training. before doing the Grand Canyon and about a full year of it altogether before doing Whitney. And, he was feeling the effects very early. So, there's so little you can really do.

Interesting.

It's one of those things. And, last time I was at a really high elevation, I believe it was 2017 when I was in Cusco, Peru before doing Machu Picchu. And, I didn't feel anything. We did a lot of walking and hiking up to the The city is beautiful and it's kind of like there's these surrounding mountains even higher than the city. It's— I believe it's somewhere around 16,000. Don't quote me on that. I get things confused sometimes. But the hotels, like in a lot of hotels you check in, there was that bottle of water that you can have complimentary or not. Yeah. In Cusco, the hotels have this air canister with a little mask so you can—

Oh, for oxygen.

Use that. Yeah, for oxygen. Right. And, it's interesting to see that, but altitude is no joke. I have seen people with edema on the trail. And, at 15—

Oh, wow.

A little under 15,000 feet, you don't really get the kind of pulmonary edema and cerebral edema like you would in the Himalayas and higher.

Sure.

But, you do get the start of it. And, when I say the start of it, I think you may have seen clips of people's eyes kind of bulging out from the—

Pressure.

The edema in the head, right? Cerebral edema. And the start of that is a very bad headache, pressure building up. So you see a lot of that in Mount Whitney and even places lower than that. It starts off with a headache. You're irritated. You irritate people around you. You get a stomachache. Everything seems to be hitting them at one time. And they become kind of a liability to be on the trail. And, it has nothing to do with their legs, their physical fitness. This is something extra that you can't really plan for. And, when you think you've done all you can, you get surprised because around 13,000 feet, people— there's actually a stop and a sign that says 13,000 feet, but it seems like something magical happens between 13,000 feet and 14,500 where you either take it serious. Turn, not in a good way.

Yeah.

Or you keep muscling on and it's just, it's something I recommend any serious climber to do is try some high altitude backpacking and that will make you, help you, force you to fine-tune your gear needs and you'll think of everything you didn't need. At 13,000 feet, I saw this girl who was probably about maybe not even 5 feet. And she had a pack on her at 13,000 feet that was about 40 pounds. Now, it's customary to leave your gear at the 12,000-foot camp and take what you need for the summit and come back down to the camp. It's not a dangerous thing to do because there are hundreds of people on the trail. You would, you would never really have a chance to delay their hurt for more than 5 minutes. There's just so many people on the trail willing to help. So, you take what you need, the essentials, and you go to the peak and you come back down to your camp. She, like many people, packed her fears and you get a backpack and people fill it with things that they're afraid of. They will have everything that they're afraid of with them for even a short distance. And that kind of hiking is dangerous because, well, you're expecting someone else to have to carry you and your gear weight if you have a bad episode or you fall down or you hurt yourself. So putting that on somebody is not a good idea.

Gotcha. That's a good overview about it. Personally, you know, I've— the highest altitude I think I've been is usually when skiing. So, and that's usually 13,000 feet, maybe 13,500 is probably the highest.

That's pretty high.

Yeah. I mean, it's up there. And so I typically notice like the first day, like usually getting in to, to the slopes or whatever in the evening and, you know, getting acclimated to the condo wherever we're staying. And I'll just start to get a headache and kind of that pressure. You just feel a little off. And one of the things that I found that really helps is usually taking a Motrin, like a couple Motrins that first day, and then just drinking a lot of water, just a shit ton of water. And that has helped.

Right.

And then usually like some supplements. And are you familiar with the company Wilderness Athlete?

I am not.

So they, they make supplements specifically. I think they were designed for hunters and getting them acclimated for high backcountry hunts. So they have a supplement specifically for altitude to get you acclimated. You're supposed to start taking it like a few weeks before, or maybe it's a week before you're going to be at that altitude. And so I did that over the summer when we went on a backpacking trip in Montana. We were about 10,500 feet, and I think that definitely helped. Definitely seemed like it. The other thing that I've noticed that seems to help is like taking a lot of electrolytes, drinking a lot of water. And so I'm a big fan of LMNT. It's like salt and electrolytes and magnesium. That seems to help.

Yeah, hydration is always going to be pinnacle in any kind of adventure trip. Definitely.

Yeah, for sure. Ruben, so doing all of these outdoor adventures and traveling so much, nature and the outdoors and the wilderness is really important to you. Did that come from a very early age, or is that something that has kind of grown and evolved over the years?

Early age, definitely. My first memories are camping with the family, my grandfather, mainly at 4 years old. My first memory is like when the lights first went on and you started rolling tape, as far as I can remember. People are wondering what tape is. But anyway, Was in a snowy campground in the desert with frozen tomatoes on the table and lots of snow. And just the idea of camping and saying it around the house as a kid was like, yes, yay, cool. I had this wooden thing that was knife-shaped. It was the oddest like wooden paddle. But to me, that was like my knife that I would tuck into the belt because I was like 4 or 5 and 6. I think by the time I was 7, I finally had like a decent— pocket knife. I think it was a Remington brand pocket knife that I remember saying USA on it, and it was carbon steel blade. Oh, cool. I could be making that up. But I remember that up until several years ago, that was kind of rare to see that. Yeah, don't see many carbon steel pocket knives these days.

Yeah, exactly. Interesting. Now, you mentioned getting really involved with some of the different outdoor forums. Are you still involved with any of those? And, you know, what are, what are some of your favorites?

Well, I have not been on a forum for a very long time, but from about 2001 to about, I'm gonna say, 2018, I was on them like religiously. And I would do lots of trips and I would post a lot of photos and write out a lot of different things. And it was well received. For a long time. And some forums would, would, would kind of, uh, just talk to you on the side and ask if you could do a trip report every, every week on, on—

Mm-hmm.

And at the time, I was doing so many practice training hikes for San Jacinto and Mount Gorgonio and Bertha Peak in Big Bear and Mammoth Lakes, Grand Canyon, and, um, well, Mount Whitney, which we did 2 years in a row. But all the practice hikes to me were always harder, actually, than the actual big climb itself.

Interesting.

Yeah, yeah. Hard, hard to explain, but they were. So I had a chance to post a lot of backpacking trips and not a whole lot of survival stuff, believe it or not, or knife stuff, because I was, I was not such a big part of that community until about Gonna say more 2002, 2003. Was always a bit of a knife collector, knife guy, but they weren't always the kind that you would take on a trip like I was doing. So being on those forums was great because it was one of the only ways to get information at the time. YouTube, I don't even think was around at that time, and it wasn't in— wasn't in my Arsenal at the time. Yeah. So we just had forums, what other people were posting. And it was a time for people to kind of get together, ask each other questions about places, trailheads, trail conditions, rules, gear. What did you take for that? How much does that weigh? Things like this. They were backpacking forums and outdoor adventure forums. Blade Forums was one of them. And they have They always had like an adventure travel subforum, which I spent a lot of time on for trips. And Randall's Adventure and Training had the jungle training forum, which they also had an area on backpacking and trips like that. So I always was— well, I seem to frequent those more than others. It was a good chance to learn about gear and to get ridiculed for doing it wrong from somebody who's been on there longer than you and knows better.

Of course.

It's part of it. And I really, I learned a lot from, I honestly can take everything back to professionally, those forms really ultimately gave me a platform to practice the layouts for magazines when I didn't even know I was doing them. You know, my friend Jeff Randall, he was able to see that I was doing kind of the things that he and a lot of other writers were doing, only I was doing it on a smaller scale on a forum. And I remember him being one of the first people to tell me, I hope I don't offend anybody with this, but a lot of the writers for the magazines that are out there or that he was around are just kind of phoning it in from the couch and from the backyard and not really doing any trips or adventure. And that's what would make My, uh, my, I guess, contributions a little more unique is that I'm actively doing things. And, um, that's something I've, to this day, I think has helped me get on to other, other things. But again, the forums give you a chance to, to write, to practice, uh, to see what your photos look like on a something larger than your, your camera. And, and, uh, it was Good place to get information. I did just several hundreds, hundreds, maybe thousands of posts over the years. And people would come up to me at shows when I first started going to them and introduce themselves by like their screen name. And, you know, I'm Turtleneck557. Like, who? I'm Reuben. Nice to meet you. What's your real name? So that was kind of interesting for people to just know my forum posts and pictures and things like that. I got to the point, Seth, where the amount of work I felt I was really putting into forum posts, trip reports, and trip reviews was exceeding what the, I would say, takeaway was from it. And that was 1 to 20 people posting back cool pics.

Nice job.

Not a lot of feedback. So I thought, Well, it just seemed to taper off after a while. And, and, uh, yeah, I was just kind of— it was expected, like, oh, there's a trip guide with all these stuff. I just kind of stopped. I stopped. And, uh, I was already writing for magazines at the time, and I'd rather put the time and energy into something that's going to, I guess, just be on a different scale. And, uh, once I got on Instagram, thanks to Shane Adams, he had pushed me for probably a good 2 years before I got on, to get on, that it would, it would be better suited for somebody like myself. Um, I finally did, and, and it is, it has been. I don't feel I have to post 10 to 30 pictures per post. I can, you know, you can do whatever you want.

Sure.

Post just a couple and, and, uh, the ones that really matter instead of just 10 photos. Uh, something about photography that That I like about Instagram is it makes you fine-tune what you, what you're going to choose. Yeah.

Got to be more specific.

Yeah, right. I got a good photo tip years ago about travel photography and photography in general. What the difference between an amateur and a professional. Amateur will show you 60 photos, maybe even 20 photos of a thing, a place. situation, and a professional will show you maybe 2 or 3 that'll just blow you away. So something to be said about showing your best work.

Oh yeah, I like that. Yeah. So a couple things there. I actually have another question about the altitude. And so you mentioned from an early age hitting that altitude, and I, I'm very curious If starting from such an early age and doing that, if that helped you acclimate and to build up your lung capacity and everything else, as opposed to someone who starts much later, they would not have that, like, like myself.

Sure.

And if that's the case, then that's a great excuse to get your kids out at a very early age camping and hiking.

True. And, and if not even camping and hiking to start with, snow sledding, A lot of people from Southern California will go up into higher elevation when it snows so they can take their kids sledding. They can't help but notice there's a difference in the amount of air up there.

Yeah.

Picnics. There are a lot of day things you can do around Big Bear Lake and Green Valley Lake, Arrow Bear. These are all places in Southern California where there is just so much to do in the wilderness to get kids started and to get families kind of away, although I don't think you can ever really get away and disconnect so much these days. I do believe, Seth, that that has helped me tremendously because I have never had altitude issues, sickness. And, there's a reason why certain times of the year you will find a lot of professional fighters out there doing road work.

Oh yeah.

Because they go up there to train for that altitude. So, when they go to Nevada to fight or any other place, most likely they won't be that high unless you're in Colorado. You won't be that high. So, that really does something for you.

They're not sucking wind like their opponents.

Right. And, as kids, we were just actively hiking and running. And, that has to do— I do believe that has something to do with your lung capacity over the years. And, Consistently going there has something to do with that. And, I do believe that it is something that has helped and still does help, but I have not been in that type of high altitude for a very long time. So, anytime I'm any place that looks like there's a little bit of an incline, a hill, I just gun it a little more, a little harder because I miss it.

Yeah.

And, I do feel the feeling people get from bungee jumping and skydiving is the feeling I get when I'm very high on a mountain and I'm going fast and I tell people I'm going to be rude, I'm going to go ahead. I just like to take it a lot harder. And it really, you do that, it just really expands everything and your heart.

You're hitting a flow state, I think.

Sorry?

You're probably hitting a flow state.

Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah. And I'd like, I'd rather do that on my own certain parts, certain sections. Like, this is where I leave you. I'll see you on the other stretch on the downhill. And then the downhill, I'm dragging. I'm the last guy in the back like Mopey. I'm always the last guy in the back. I just am downhill. I hate it. It bothers me. It's terrible on your knees. Yeah.

Oh, so bad.

I used to use trekking poles and I thought, I like them for crossing creeks for safety reasons. You kind of feel like a spider with less legs, but more to grab onto, more to grip onto. But, I'm a camera guy, so it was a hassle always messing with the camera. And, I thought I'm going to do myself a lot better if I can just strengthen my legs more. And, I always had relatively strong legs. Rarely ever get sore or blisters. Blisters are something I have not had in several, several years. I just don't get them. My feet are very coarse.

Yeah.

Kind of hard, but I prefer it that way. In the Southwest, I often would hike in deerskin moccasins, not with a little shoe bottom, but just flat deerskin. And, that's kind of a weird place to do it, but you can get away with it because it's dry.

Yeah.

It's dry, but there are a lot of rocks and things, and you kind of get used to that.

Sure.

You kind of get used to it. I like it. It, it, um, in one of, one of the books I really enjoy, Horace Kephart's book, he talks about moccasins being the only kind of footwear you can dump your canoe and, um, still be able to swim as if you're barefoot. You can walk on logs like you're a cat. Your feet definitely kind of, uh, and I would Just did a lot, a lot of log crossings and things like that. So I really enjoyed them. I even went to Alaska and did some pretty, I would say, cool hikes and climbs with them while everybody else thought I was a nut for having just deerskin moccasins because the amount of snow and the amount of slush and the amount of mud, at some point it was like, you know, being on a slip and slide. But, that's how I preferred to travel a lot. And, about altitude, here's something really interesting that I don't think many people— I've never heard, read, or I've never had a discussion with anybody in the backpacking community. And, it was, again, Jeff Randle who brought this to my attention. And, I think this is something that should be published or written because it is a fact. The rainforest like the— like in Peru, we're basically on the equator. We're not far, not too far south from the equator. You are at sea level in such a humid environment. The point he made, which was a good one, was that the way it feels walking around in that jungle environment— Rainforest. I have to correct myself and say rainforest. It is a true rainforest. It is about the same feeling as you would get at 5,000-foot elevation. And that is true. I recognized that right away. We're walking around, it was 2007 or 2008, one of the first 2 times I was down there. And that was very obvious. I felt this doesn't feel like sea level. It's a little harder to breathe. You can definitely feel the moisture. It felt like, it felt like I was at 8,000 or maybe even higher than that. I don't really feel altitude in that way. I never have. It's just, it's, it's just one of those things. Yeah, it is strange, but that's something I can identify with. Walking around at that humidity in the rainforest feels like you are at elevation.

Wow. So outside of the, the moccasins, what, what are your normal boots or shoes that you typically wear for most of your excursions?

That's— yeah, good question. I, I'm not a boot guy. I've had to wear boots, Panama sole type boots, Altimas, for South America. They are designed to keep your feet dry because every step you take, you're squishing water out and they do a good job. Besides that, I've had one pair of A-Solo boots. Oh, great.

I still have a pair of those that I've had for 20 years. I haven't resoled them. 3 times.

Did you? I should have done that. I had to— I got mine in 2001 in Mammoth Lakes, California. And that was actually the first pair of boots I took to the Amazon jungle when they said not to take Gore-Tex. So I, being from a, being from a place called Show Me, Prove It to Me, I took, I took them. And I think up until recently, my foot was on the website for This is what it looks like when, you know, you take the wrong footwear. And it was immersion foot, trench foot. You've heard about it. And it's one of those things that creeps up on you. Having Gore-Tex, they do a great job of keeping water out and keeping water in at the same time.

Yeah.

So I don't do— I'm a trail runner guy. The more mesh and the less material, the better. Because ultimately, when your feet do get wet, easily through something like that. They all— they actually dry faster too.

They do.

And they're lighter. And a couple of really inspirational books for me was Ultralight Backpacking. I think that was the name of it. Another one was Beyond Backpacking— Beyond Lightweight Backpacking with Ray Jardine. Or is that the guy from the Beach Boys?

Same name.

And he went into He went into footwear and how— I forget what it is mathematically, but something about taking a certain amount of pounds off your feet takes that many pounds off your back and your shoulders and your body throughout this amount of time. Those were thru-hikers that wrote these books. So, when I started using just very, very low Adidas, I started with Reebok and then New Balance. Didn't like the way they wore. I would go through 2 pairs of running shoes a year. That's a lot of hiking. Yeah, I was doing a lot of hiking. But I finally settled on Adidas type of trail runners that I really enjoy. And they're very light. I try to replace them with the same model, if not something similar. When, when other people around me are wearing full-on boots, or even boots up to their knees in snake country and things like that, which I always found I found ridiculous because snake is a smarter animal than people give them credit for. They have a high boot, they're just going to strike a little bit higher.

Yeah.

To where the heat is, but that's okay. I've always been big on hiking. So, if you give yourself a pair of moccasins or trail runners and you go on the trail for X amount of years, your ankles, your feet will figure out what their job is. They will conform to it. And they do. I've had several rolls situations where the person behind me just went, oh man, I just saw your ankle, your foot, the way it rolled. Wow, that looked like painful. Yeah, like I definitely felt it give or something on the rock. But I have strong ankles and it's not from carrying a lot of weight. It's just from miles.

Yeah.

And doing it. And the more you put yourself in an uneven terrain type of situation, the more flex, the more your ankles, your feet, and your legs are all going to figure out what their job is. If you were to look at the many people that have a broken ankle or leg, have serious falls, get taken out of a canyon by helicopter or whatever their mishap is hiking, almost all of them have Big old heavy boots. You can't correct your step so quickly. When you have a moccasin or a trail runner, a bad step, you can feel it. You can feel it. You can feel the ground moving, the rock moving. You can feel the displacement of weight and you have a better chance to correct it than a clunky heavy boot. You're almost like you have to go with it. Like, you know, your reaction time is slower. It gets caught in things more. I'm not doing anything for people who like boots right now, but believe me, it's a fact. I've hiked with several people over the years that have had types of injuries that I don't think they would have had if they had just prepared themselves by letting their feet naturally develop. And so, I'm a lightweight footwear guy. However, now I'm in the Northeast and— There's snow. There's snow right now. It's snowing right now outside. There's snowing and there's going to be snow this weekend. And, when I got here, one of the first things I got was a good case of frostbite.

Well, there's that.

Wearing trail runners like I was just advocating for. And, the deal with that is I was still living in California from California and Patrick and I— Patrick is a lead instructor for the Randles Adventure and Training School. And, we were flown to Louisiana to do a class for an elite group of people in our country. And, we were in Louisiana, it was December. Remember this, coldest it gets is about 50, maybe a little bit of frost. So, I took my moccasins and my trail runners. Part of that trip was after we were done with our training, I was getting flown to visit my brother in New Jersey, New York area where I am now. And I don't take a lot of shoes. I don't know how many pairs of shoes you travel with, but I just had 2. And when I actually got to New York, they had a considerable amount of snow falling down. And I was going to be totally fine with that if it wasn't for my good friend Jay. And I had known him on the forums for years and he loves He loves snow, cold, rain. He doesn't like people, bugs, or snakes. Winter camping is perfect for him. And, I've been in snow several times in trail runners and moccasins. It never bothered me. It wasn't snow quite like this or for that long. So, when he said, hey, I'm going to come by and get you at 7:00 in the morning. We're going to be out in the snow. I just, okay.

Okay.

I have 2 choices here. I'll go with this. And, it was something like Over 36 hours of just being in snow on really, really— and it was probably 20 or a little bit below 20. And, that trip alone wasn't terrible. I remember the feet were cold, putting my feet near the fire and just kind of rubbing them with your hand. That's very important to use your hands because you can feel more than numb feet. One of the most dangerous things you can do is try to rewarm your limbs, your fingers, your your legs, your feet around fire unless you have some other indicator of what the true temperature is. And, if everything is cold, you're kind of screwed.

Yeah.

I was just massaging my feet a lot trying to get circulation going and getting them by the fire. I had some kind of woolish socks which I never wear, but I did for this trip. I only wear very thin polyester dress socks. Oh. That is something that is the best tip I ever got from the backpacking community is the thicker your socks are, that's not going to give you as much insulation and comfort. Leave that up to your shoe and your pad, your cushion in there. However, the thicker your sock, it's going to absorb more moisture. It's that moisture that's going to give you the blister. Having a very thin sock liner or dress sock Dries out so fast it can't give you the blister that you would normally get.

Never thought about that.

Um, that's been something I've had with me since 2005. And this is the funniest thing, but I just hand washed a pair of dress socks I started using in 2007. It was the George brand from Walmart dress sock. Whoa. Polyester. There is not one hole. Or anything wrong with that. I had 2 pair.

Oh my gosh.

Still going strong. And they have kind of a greenish-blackish stain in certain areas because I broke in my jungle boots with those. And the way they said to break them in was to get them completely immersed in a creek or a bucket and walk them dry. When you walk them dry, then they're conformed. And that, that peeling, that color transfer is on those socks. So they always look kind of dirty and grungy even though they're not. And, to me, I attribute that as one of the reasons I don't get blisters from hiking like people would. I can not hike for— I've never gone a month without hiking, but I can not hike for 2 or 3 months and not get a blister because I'm not using cotton and I'm not using thick socks.

Got it.

And, my feet sweat a lot. So, having thin socks, super important. Now, combine that with the Well, your, you know, your, your breathability of a mesh trail runner, now that's kind of further the drying, you know, it's furthering it. So it, for me, I'm in a good place with that combo despite what people want to wear, whatever works for them or makes them feel comfortable. I'm okay with, I don't fear bad steps on the trail. It could happen, but I don't think that is going to take my ankle out. Maybe in my old age it will, you know.

But it's so interesting to hear all the different opinions when it comes to the gear such as this, whether that's socks or boots.

I break all the rules. I'm like the anti-gear person, uh, and people who hike with me have been around me in a camp, they, they're just— the jokes and the comments never stop because I literally have a very small backpack that is Bright blue and looks like a little, like a shopping bag. I think we're getting ready for the SHOT Show, getting ready for the SHOT Show. And Patrick messaged me something like, do you have your grocery bag full of all the, you know, all the gear you're going to need ready and packed for the, for the week? Something like that.

Reuben, so out of all these adventures and experiences, what's the biggest life lesson that you've learned from nature and the outdoors and just spending so much time in the wilderness? And the jungles?

Well, wow, life lessons. Wow. Who says I learned anything?

I would hope there's a couple of lessons tucked away in there someplace.

I think there is just a handful, a handful of things can get you by and get you through. And combining or comparing overseas trips to Southeast Asia and South America and the Middle East, Combining that with local trips in the States backpacking, they really are two different types of trips. But that being said, a couple things that stand out are your social skills being your strongest, your most important survival skill, no matter where you are in so many ways. And I did a podcast with Shane and Patrick at SHOT Show, and that's one of the things that we went into after we had graduated the jungle school with Randall's Adventure. in training was, remember Jeff and Mike stressing the point that you have a handful of skills now that are good for this type of thing, but your social skills are going to be more important throughout life. And that really hit home, which works on the trail, works off the trail. When you meet somebody, you meet locals that maybe you shouldn't be there, they're not expecting to see you. It works in airports where there is a language barrier. It works when you accidentally stumble into somebody's property.

Oh yeah.

environment and you don't know how to properly explain yourself, wave, smile, things like that go a long way. That was, that was a huge lesson because it could be applied to making the wrong turn and ended up in the wrong part of town and having to just not be a threat and just trying to talk your way out of it. Yeah, verbal judo, right?

Yeah, exactly.

Things like that. You know, when traveling, I've gone to several places where kidnapping Americans and Canadians and Europeans is a big thing. It is a known thing. It is even a way of life for them.

Yeah.

To go that far several times and been— there's been a lot of, a lot of close calls and social skills will help you out in that way more than any pocketful of tools or bag full of tools. So that's one. I guess, you know, Helen, I don't know if that is— I don't know if it answers your question, but that is one.

Yeah.

One thing that has been— you can apply it to other things. Skills, as far as wilderness skills and outdoor skills, you'll find there's a handful that will translate over to all different, you know, places, types of terrain. But social skills, Across the board, being able to communicate with people, work with their customs, things like that. Yeah.

Yeah, that makes sense. That reminds me of when I traveled to Europe in college. I studied for a semester in Europe. And one of the things going into that experience, just some of the pre-semester training was don't be the ugly American, you know, when you're traveling, don't just expect everyone to speak English and to know our customs and things like that, but try to learn a little bit about the culture and customs that each country has and learn a few basic phrases just so you can get around. And just not expect everyone to cater to us. And so I've taken that whenever I travel and try to understand that and just to fit in and not stand out.

And you really, you really nailed it on a lot of different points there. There's nothing worse than saying, but I'm American. And the one thing I see a lot in Mexico, I guess because Mexico and the US are, we're so close. We're so close. In every way. A lot of Americans vacation there, maybe have family there. A lot of Mexicans live or have family in the US. And there's— it's almost like there is no— we're really just kind of living together, especially if you're anywhere in the Southwest.

Sure.

So this is why I think people use this phrase. I've seen it a lot in Mexico. Do you take US dollars? And the answer is often yes, they do. But there are some places where they don't, they don't want to, they like to use their currency. They actually like US dollars because they could tell you a higher price or something.

Yeah.

But just that statement alone flags you, lets everybody around them and yourself know. And I'm far from a paranoid traveler, but I spent a lot of time in parts of Mexico that are not touristy in 2009 when American journalists were turning up with their heads and hands cut off.

Yeah.

Because they thought they were spies and cartel was really a big thing then. And, a phrase like that could have gotten me in a lot of trouble. So, something like that may seem harmless and okay in a touristy area until you get back in your taxi shuttle and go a little further down the road and then somebody pulls it over like, hey, give us the Americans. So, so something like you said about blending in and not flagging yourself.

Yeah.

That is, that is, uh, super important. I've written several articles on safety travel and, um, dangers of travel, and I really like and hate writing those at the same time. My point is not to make people paranoid of travel, but aware of the little things, the little things that could really be good or bad for you. And yes, like you said, just attempting to, to learn a few phrases that shows respect. Yeah, shows respect. And even if they're gonna laugh at you and just start speaking to you in English, which always seems to happen, and like, oh, all that studying the phrases for nothing. It disarms them, first of all. Yes. And you're not a threat. You're not just trying to only speak English and expect that. I've had people in Thailand laugh at me and not, well, not really laugh at me, but just kind of laugh and then apologize for not, for their English being so bad. I'm like, I'm in Thailand. This is your country. This is your language. I'm the one who should be apologizing. But like you said, the ugly American, well, that is on so many levels because there is this feeling like because you have the passport, because you're from here, things don't apply to you. Things, no, that is, You really need to shed that thinking. People do. I've had several situations floating in my head from interrogations in Singapore and, oh, wow, being stuck in other countries where that wouldn't help me one bit. If anything, it might get you an extra lash or something like that. So, play ball. You're in somebody else's, you know, country. You are at the mercy of their law and their ways. And there are a lot of ways to offend people that you don't mean to offend. And that could be something as simple and casual as eating food in certain countries, the way you put your chopsticks down or the way you put them in the food. That could be very, very offensive to people around you. If you're in Japan, you don't put chopsticks straight down in the food sticking out in between bites. You don't stick them in. There's a certain way to do things to just not turn heads. And blending in is good because, oh, for so many reasons, first of all. But sometimes you can't. Sometimes you don't always just by your face, what you're wearing or something.

Yeah.

I've spent a lot of time in Italy, Greece, and some in Egypt where Those three places I can generally pass, and I don't get looked at so much like maybe somebody next to me who's maybe taller and lighter skin or darker skin or just wearing you know something that is overly touristy. So that is good. Also, I've been in parts of the Philippines where kidnapping was a regular thing by a certain group, and I was visiting the area with another. Another writer, photographer, outdoorsman. We were both instructing classes for Ramos Adventure and training in Southern California. And we did a trip to the Philippines. He met me there to a place that was very, very dangerous for everyone, Filipinos or anybody who was a tourist in the area. But for some reason, they, with Americans and, you know, Being the state that it's in, they try not to negotiate with the government because they won't pay generally. So they try to get your phone and go through a list and call your family and your friends up. And I've had to tell like people in the past that if you do get a call and they're saying I'm kidnapped or whatever, don't, you know, just don't do anything. Leave me there. My choice. Stuff like that. Don't give them anything. But Different type of, different type of travel, definitely, than backpacking trip. He was my friend, Reza is his name, Pakistani and Mexican. And so we were both there and we're working on our cover, growing the beard out, hats, glasses. And we get there, my contact, my friend there just says, hey, you guys want to take a walk around? The barrio. You see the neighborhood? Yeah. Gets his gun out, puts in the back. We start walking out and we tell them, okay, we went over this, but just so you know, we're traveling Egyptian tourists. That's it. Nothing else. Okay. Okay. We'll stick to that story. We, we walk maybe half a block and he's yelling at his friends, hey, come see my friends, my American friends from California. Come see my— he's bringing the whole neighborhood out.

Oh geez.

And that's the kind of place that is. A very similar place where the Abu Sayyaf would would come in, you know, with fifty sixty guys and take you on a boat, and you'd be there for anywhere from a year for year from a year well on. There are people, there are programs about it. There are three episodes of Locked Up Abroad or I Shouldn't Be Alive based on that part of wow the country where there they had several. Americans, Australians, South Africans, Europeans in general, um, kidnapped. They're hostages and, uh, waiting. And, um, it's, it's tricky because the way their, their government and their police handle situations like that is— and this is how they do it— we think they're over there someplace. They get close enough and just light up the whole area and hope, you know, only the good guys get get hurt. So you can flag yourself in a very bad way by being over-American in some parts of the world. Blending in is good. That situation and that trip with people in that area was one of the best situations that I ever encountered because it was not anything like What I thought could happen or the worst-case scenario. They were some of the nicest, warmest people with some of the best food. I was in an area that was just really kind of local and everybody was, was just really aware of people's guests and not trying to be informants and make some money on the side and say there are Americans over here. So it was a great trip. It turned out really, really well. It was a good trip. We didn't get kidnapped.

Yeah, for sure. So speaking of trips and experiences, Ruben, I'd love to hear what adventurous experience would you never want to repeat and why, and/or is your absolute favorite trip that you've been on. So maybe it could be one of the same. Who knows?

You're right. I was, I was thinking that might be the same trip. And I'm going back again, I'd have to say that would be Mount Whitney. In California. And, it was— I did it 2 years in a row exactly to the date just about. And, the second time I did that, I was fresh back from the jungle. So, I had spent all this time at sea level and I didn't know what that was going to— to me, that was going to be a real test to go from sea level to now I'm going straight to— it was like getting picked up from the airport, go switch out packs. Mind you, I'm still very full of bites and stings and things like that. It's just a natural thing if you spend a lot of time outdoors, it's going to happen.

Yeah.

So that with, I need to change out gear. And that very night, we headed straight to Lone Pine when I got back from the jungle. So some people like a few days in between or something. And time was not A luxury because when you enter the lottery for Mount Whitney, you only have a few days to play with. And that was arranged before the South American trip and just tried to make it work. So going, you know, off of— getting off a plane after being at sea level in the jungle, going to camp at 8,889 feet as your portal camp.

Wow.

Before making the summit the next day or going to the 12,000-foot camp the next day. That was the plan. That's, that's what was happening. And it, it was okay. The next day, my buddy decided, hey, this is our second time doing it. Let's not stop at the 12,000-foot camp and acclimate and then the next day make the summit. Let's make the summit today.

Oh.

The first full day we woke up there and then come down to our camp and then the next day just break camp and go down to To Lone Pine. So, we did that and it was challenging. And, I remember being finished with it and we're in the hotel in Lone Pine, we're about to go eat and we took our shower. You get this feeling of this great accomplishment, like you did something great when you do a climb like that. And, you have. It is not for everyone.

Yeah.

And, I remember my friend saying, Aren't you so happy? Like, aren't you glad we did that? Like, in one day we just did the summit and then came back down. And my answer was, no, I wasn't. I feel like we saw some of the scenery that I really liked, really remembered, like we passed it in the dark. A lot more terrible things could have happened in the dark. We were the only fools making the summit at night. We didn't get to the top till about 10:30.

Oh, wow.

We didn't get back down to the 12,000-foot camp till Wow. So there goes pictures for that trip of the summit. But, but we still— well, more coming back from the summit. And it was really taxing on him. And he didn't enjoy himself and was more of a prick than usual. If he's listening to this, he knows who he is. And if he doesn't, I'll let him know. That was you. There's only 2 of us up there. So I remember not enjoying it that much the second time. second time and wishing that— not wishing I hadn't done it, but just not wanting to do it again. Because it's almost like if you've ever gone to a place so amazing that you really enjoy and the thought sits with you and you may never go back there again. To me, that is like it is a shelved amazing experience. And the other side of that is having a place like that that you enjoyed That you felt was amazing scenically, for your friendship there on the trail, off the trail, and a goal, something that you, that you were able to do. And then now you go back a second time. Well, it's like part 2 of a great movie. It's almost never as good, and you're trying to recapture that. So I wouldn't want that experience to diminish anymore. Sometimes I get into my head like, maybe I'll do it when I'm this age. Maybe I'll do it just to prove I still got it. But I don't feel I have to. And I don't— I just like that memory the way it was. I want to remember it the way it was. And there were good points to doing it faster the second time, but it was both an amazing, great experience and something I just wouldn't want to repeat just for that. I wouldn't want to diminish it and be like, oh, the third time was even worse.

Yeah.

Hey, maybe next year the 4th time will be even worse. Maybe we'll— somebody will fall. I don't know. So I'd like to just keep that how I remember it in my head more so than trying to recapture it.

Yeah, safer. No, that's great. Now, Ruben, I know you're something of a minimalist, so I'd— that being said, I'd love to hear, uh, what gear you consider essential on every trip that you go on.

Um, Pants. There you go. Shoes. Well, okay. So, my regular gear loadout is below 4 pounds. I'm somewhere between 3.5 pounds to 3 pounds and 15 ounces.

That's so little.

It is, but I'm always comfortable, warm, dry, and hydrated. Everything besides that is extra. And especially if I'm just doing it one night, I mean, I don't think like, oh well, if it's only one night, I can suffer for one night. I don't suffer. I, I not on backpacking trips when I get to take gear. I'm, I'm usually the most organized because I have the least amount. Here's a funny story. Last week or week and a half ago before the SHOT Show happened, 2022 SHOT Show, I was camping with my friend and he. He's a guy who likes to take 80 pounds on a sled. And, and I had just a small backpack. And I was really bummed that I, in my rearranging of packs, transferring stuff, left one Ziploc bag out that had a flashlight that I use as my only main light headlamp.

Hmm.

And a little LifeStraw to just drink out of whatever and not have to worry about it. And I think like a little packet of tissue. I have like one Ziploc bag with like those 3 things. Somehow it ended up not going on the trip. And he kept making a joke about, you need to make it, you need to start making a gear checklist for all your 4 things that you take. Because, you know, when I forget one thing, it's like, it's—

Yeah.

That's a big part of the gear, the kit setup. My kit is super simple. My loadout is almost the same every time. It has been. I don't own— people often ask me what kind of sleeping bag and what kind of tent do you use? Well, that's an easy answer. I don't own a sleeping bag or a tent. I haven't in several years.

Wow.

I've obviously been a tarp camper for a long time. Or if I'm in a place where I just know the weather well, I don't even bother setting up a tarp if I know it's just not going to. But that doesn't mean I don't have a tarp I can reach down and grab and throw over me like a blanket. So that being said, very simple. I use a Platypus 2-liter container without the hydration straw and all that because that just gets frozen and useless in the winter.

Yeah.

It's another thing to carry. And although I like the straw and the, you know, the idea that you can just sip from it, I don't like the fact that you can't just like take a big drink and gulp from it. I like that. You know, sometimes that's necessary. So my hydration, my water carry is just that Platypus 2-liter. And then I have another one that is cut in half. That is just my scooping bowl too. Sometimes our water sources, you know, will be like this deep and, you know, 2, 3 inches. There's good clean water or water you can disinfect, but—

Filter it out.

It's hard to scoop. How do you gonna scoop it when you need flow and gravity and certain angle? So having that second platypus cut in half gives me a bowl. It gives me a bowl to eat out of if I wanted to. It gives me a way to scoop up water. So that's my hydration. I only use torso pads underneath me for insulation. That's a Gosmer Gear. Gosmer Gear is a big, big company that I deal with. I've been a trail ambassador with them for. Several years. And I use one of their packs that I've modified to be even lighter. So there's pack, hydration, my torso pad is just a, I want to say it's about 4 ounces. It's a NiteLite, they call it NiteLite, like an egg crate, folds up. I've had that in all, all conditions. I use it all the time because I'm usually smart enough to get some Some kind of debris and put it under my legs, boughs from a downed tree, big panels of birch bark. There's a lot of things you can put under you that are going to be, you know, big on your insulation values as opposed to carrying a full-length sleeping bag. I don't have one. I— people in the backpacking community are familiar with quilts. They call them backpackers' quilts. It's basically like if you had a sleeping bag, for people that don't know, let's say you only zipped it up to your calf and now you turned it sideways. So it's like a triangle. And there's no zipper. So it's open on the bottom. It's not mummy. It just goes up to my neck. I started making those for thru-hikers and for myself in 2006. Sold some, kept 2. It weighs 10 ounces for a 40-degree rating.

Wow.

So I have a snap in the back, a little front like a shock cord on a little barrel lock. to adjust it, but I almost never use that. It has to be 20 degrees for me to use that to really cinch it up. So that is used with either a Mountain Laurel bivy, which is about 7 or 8 ounces, and recently I'm using the SOL Escape bivy, the Pro, which is about 6.5 ounces. It's a little smaller and conforming, but that's good for trapping body heat. Mm-hmm. So that quilt that I make with that bivy on a NiteLite torso pad and a small 5 by 7 or 5 by 8 Integral Design tarp is what I've been using until the past year. I started using the T60, which is a Coal Cracker Bushcraft product. It's about the same size, only it's xenon. material. Not— is not, um, what is the, uh, still nylon, so it doesn't stretch as much. It has 2 tie-outs. I have it in a really bright orange. They have a lot of other colors, but I look at a shelter as something that could actively be signaling.

Sure.

At the same time for you if you need it to be. So, um, that is— that for the last year has been my go-to tarp. I use it. I've used it several times. Has 2 tie-outs already there. So, all you're doing is tying a shoelace around 2 trees and staking down the 2 ends. So, that is my shelter, backpack, water right there. What do I boil in? I'm old-school backpacker, Foster's beer can with a top. The top is removed with the safety can opener. Oh my gosh. The safety can opener removes the top of the— I call it the pot, kettle, and it There's no sharp edges, and you just bend that little finger tab up. So now you have a little handle that, that is a little more stout than your average soda can, beer can.

Sure.

It's wider, it's shorter, and it holds a lot of volume. I want to say 750 ml, maybe more. And I just put a little wire hanger bail on that. That weighs about I'm gonna say a quarter of an ounce. Okay, so, and I've had the same one for 6 years, all through Alaska, all through Norway, through the jungle. And I have kept that with me for, for so many years. It looks brown and black and gold, all kinds of, all kinds of stains on it. It's got just soot on it, a little doo-doo on there. It's just got a little bit of everything. It's just—

Wow.

So, and I use that. I've used the same one for several years. It wasn't until just last camp trip, I went to dry it near the fire and we had been burning oak for about 7 hours and I just didn't watch it enough and it was empty. So, it just kind of burned a hole in it. So now, I'm on the second one, which is the second one I've used in 6 years. So, that is my— and I usually only boil water in there. Boil water in there, or we'll make spruce tea, hemlock tea, pine tea.

Yeah.

And, um, and what do I— so that's my boiling apparatus. That's my metal container. What do I, what do I drink out of? It's a, it's, it's a Vandecamp. I feel like they were some little, uh, sausages at one time. It's very short. It's probably about 3 inches high, nice and round. And I just, I cord wrapped it with jute twine, like, you know, like whipping, like you would apply whipping to the end of a rope or a sheath or something like that. And that allows me to hold it when it's hot. So that takes care of just about all of that right there. I always have a fleece with me in the pack, which is usually, if it's not Mountain Hardwear, it's a certain type of REI Fleece that is 7 ounces. It's a 7-ounce fleece for like a large size or a medium size. And I've had that with me for several years. So that takes care of that. I used to carry an extra pair of socks. I don't now. I always have one pair of leather gloves because I think leather gloves in many situations can take the place of a saw or an axe when it comes to Procuring wood and processing. If you can grab it and get it between 2 trees and break it, you're ahead of the game. It protects your hands. You can pick up hot things. You can drag a lot of wood, break it apart very quickly with leather gloves. Once your hands or your feet go wrong in the outdoors, your trip has changed drastically.

Yeah.

Leather gloves, they're heavier than other types of gloves. That's something I won't change out. That I know what works for me. So, there's that. Water filtration, I don't filter water, I just take iodine.

Oh, wow.

The small ones. And, I've had water from a creek, very small creek in Peru where there is, I'm going to say, sloth and snake guts from lunch and dinner. In the same water, but iodine works. It works. And, in the Philippines, Reza and I would— our water source was this little— it was a large creek kind of a river and you couldn't get the water buffalo out of the source.

Oh, my God.

So, you get your water anyway and iodine and boiling or usually I'll do one or the other. I don't ever do both.

Really?

But yeah, I've never been sick on any Overseas trip, any backpacking trip, any trip abroad, period, to date. And I do several of them.

Yeah.

So iodine, it works. You can get some nasty water locally. You don't have to go that far from it. So iodine, I use that. I have a bandana. I always have orange or blue cotton, colorful, loud bandana. It serves many purposes. So you're filtering out the big If I have to, if I have to, yes. There was one trip we did in New York where there was a seasonal pond. And from far away, we can see it. It was amazing. It was great. And it was like, super nice looking from a distance. But when you actually get there, you have to go through about 50 meters of the nastiest, darkest, blackest water. Mm-hmm. They all were hiking with three liters. That's like nine pounds of water. Yeah, I'm not gonna hike with nine pounds of water. I'm not. If I'm in the desert, yes. I was not in the desert. So, so to drink water, I had to break the surface and walk into this nasty bit. And the two guys with me, they could. They can definitely. Well, they can attest that when that surface of the water broke, the smell was of rotten— oh, it was— I don't know how graphic I can get. As graphic as you want. It smelled like pure feces. And, I could see these very prehistoric-looking water bug roaches in there climbing around and it was nasty awful. So I filled up that platypus with as much of that water as I could get. I have photos of it. I'm going to post them now. I think you're going to make me post them. And it was about the nastiest looking water I have come across. I've come across a lot of nasty water and it was just in New York. So I said, this is going to be my drinking water for the day. And all I did was put a bandana down and put it through the bandana. You wouldn't believe how clear it was on the other side. And I would have to People don't think they have to do this, but you have to change that bandana up and rub it against a rock or a tree to get as much of the junk off of it.

Yeah.

Or use another section of it and keep filling it up. Once it was in the can, it was pretty clear. There were no particles and I boiled it. Once it got to a rolling boil, I just let it go for a minute. That was it.

Yeah.

Fine. There was nothing wrong with that at all. And to me, that was not like a big deal. But if I would have put a filter in that water, it probably would have clogged up in no time at all. And this has happened to us several times.

Sure.

In parts of the world where you have swamp water as your main source, and it's pretty useless. It could be the most useless piece of gear if it freezes or clogs or breaks. You're still carrying it with you. So I don't have a water filter.

Yeah.

I don't think that's all as far as gear. I have a small AAA Streamlight that I made my own little elastic bandana to clip it to for a light source. I keep a very small little thing of tissue with me. I don't have a lot of things as far as first aid. First aid, okay, I have duct tape. Like a Neosporin. And if I can't stop it with duct tape, then it's beyond the realm of what you can really carry. That's, that's, people think a Band-Aid or several Band-Aids are going to do anything for you in the outdoors, but it doesn't take much sweat, moisture, humidity to make a Band-Aid just fall right off. So to me, that is a useless item beyond useless.

Yeah.

I could see it being used if you put it on initially and then a piece of duct tape over it.

Sure.

So, duct tape is not on your wounded part, your injured area. But, besides that, there is not a Band-Aid I've ever come across that will stay on for more than a day in the outdoors. So, that is ridiculous to me. There are several things that just don't belong in a survival kit or that give you false sense of security. And I think first aid stuff is definitely— I'm just not a big believer of it. If you have a really bad cut or snakebite, there's nothing in your pack. You need primary care. You don't need to, you know, ruffle through your gear. So, and there's something about cuts in the outdoors. And that is a big thing. I've been cut worse than anything in Australia. Fort Douglas up north, just trying to get a really good photo of a crab, losing my balance, catching myself, and this rock slit me so bad in the wrist.

Oh, wow.

It was literally squirting out. And so, one thing to be said about certain types of bleeding is that 10 minutes of really direct hard pressure, I mean, 10 minutes not looking to see is it still bleeding? No, 10 minutes of just Uninterrupted hard pressure will stop most, most injuries except for an arterial bleed. That's a whole different thing. A little different. So, right. So there you go. Bandana, duct tape, some kind of Neosporin, which may or may not work right away. That's it for first aid. That's, that right there is probably about 3.5 pounds. I don't know if I'm forgetting something. In the winter, I do carry a thicker pair of socks to sleep with at night. to change out. I always have a 1-ounce beanie that I carry with me. It's a 1-ounce fleece beanie, covers my ears. So that's part of the gear setup. That's it. I don't carry a lot of stuff.

That's a very minimalistic setup, but—

It's worked for me. I've never been in a situation where I've needed anything more than that.

Yeah, no, it's great.

But I do carry a possibles pouch just to throw in there, a possibles kit, possibles pouch that has a ferro rod and my Swiss Army knife. And that's not part of my backpacking kit because it's got no business detached from me. It should always be on me with a whistle. And that's it, really very simple stuff.

Reuben, so I know you've done some knife designing, both for TOPS and for ESEE. So I'd love to hear about that process and how you came up with the designs and, you know, the structure of it, the materials and all of that.

Right. That first knife that I did design for, I would say, a big company Besides custom makers, I've had custom makers make some of my designs before. But the first thing that I guess I put my name on was with TOPS Knives. And I definitely wanted carbon steel, 1095 steel. I've always been a huge fan of Tramontina machetes and Mora knives. And they're very simple 1095, although it's supposed to be some type of mystery in the industry. It's 1095 steel, we're not fooling anybody. And just it being a good hardworking steel, I know I wanted that or O1 steel. You won't get production companies using O1 steel too often. I do believe Spyderco does on certain models. But so 1095 for me was, was, was going to be it. And I wanted something that would keep it under 4 inches because that gets me by in a lot of countries where you're getting 4 inches, you're getting 6 inches. Now it looks like a dagger. Now it's a weapon. So something small and manageable was in my head. And this goes for both knife designs. But If we start with just the TOPS Cub, I had done several trips to Scandinavia. Kind of broad to say Scandinavia. So I'll say Finland, Sweden, Norway. And they use knives more than I believe North Americans do on a daily basis for their way of life. And they favor a large bevel knife, large beveled knife, which is known as a Scandi. Chisel or double chisel, whatever Scandinavian grind has very— it's a very large bevel, one part sharpened on each side. There's, there's no guesswork in the angle or whatever, you can feel it and see when it's hitting the stone or the leather if you want to strop it. So that was big to me because at the time that was one of the only knives I could really sharpen with success were Mora knives of Sweden. And so I wanted a Scandi type of grind. I say type of grind because at the time TOPS was not doing zero-degree Scandi grinds. They were doing like a Scandi Vex. And I liked it all the same because I like convex edges too. And when you get it down enough and you sharpen it enough, it will just be a true zero-degree Scandi grind. So for me, I knew I wanted 1095. I knew I wanted it to be about 3¾ of an inch long in the blade. I wanted it no thicker than ⅛ of an inch. I would prefer 3/32, but no production company at the time was doing 3/32 in anything for obvious reasons. So I went with ⅛ of an inch thick, and uncoated 1095 was important. I did not want a coating on it. And when Mike Fuller, then the founder and president of TOPS Knives, approached me about it— this was after several years of me writing about TOPS Knives in several publications and using them over years— he said, well, he wanted to have a phone conversation, and that's usually when it was something important. And he wanted me to come up with the design. And at that time, A lot of writers in the industry had their own design first in with TOPS. And so it just seemed like it was my turn next or something. And I told them, I don't see anything wrong with the knives that are out today for me to come up with my own. Like, why? What's— this is great. This has been going for a long time. What am I going to add? That's— there's nothing new under the sun, as they say.

Yeah.

So I didn't, I didn't really want that. He talked me into it. He was very persuasive in that way. And it was, it was, it was strange. But for some reason, I agreed on under one condition, that they don't print my name on the actual knife. And he was willing to say okay to that. And at the time, there were several guys in the industry that do a lot of the same things that had their name on it. And I just, I didn't want my name on it. So they accommodated that and got the prototype and it was pretty good. I remember sitting down with Leo, who is now the president of TOPS Knives, you know, the main guy, El Jefe. And I just remember like a sketch artist describing it to him and him just writing it out. Like, that's it. Wow, that's amazing. It's like he got in my head and just, and I liked it right away. It was compact. It's a compact utility blade, just like the acronym CUB, not combat utility blade, like some people like to joke around and say it is. So that was my first experience with the big company. And, you know, getting a royalty off of it, putting my name on something. Well, it was in the— it was in the literature, the description, not so much on the blade.

Yeah.

Not too long after that. ESEE knives, there was talk about doing a series that kind of took a bit of a turn from the regular lineup of the ESEE 3, ESEE 4, ESEE 5, ESEE 6, Izula, which all have somewhat of maybe law enforcement, tactical, military, also outdoors kind of look. This line of knives was going to be geared towards the backpackers, the woodcrafters, the bushcrafters. guys that don't need the black coating, that want a 90-degree spine as another tool. And the Camplore Edition was, was born from that, from ESEE Knives. You might be familiar with them. There's— they basically are—

Yeah.

Are using instructors and people in the know. At one time, Dave Canterbury had a design in it. It never really went all the way to production. But people in the industry that have done something in the industry, teaching, just been contributing to the outdoors industry and been using ESEE knives were, were used at like to design, like James Gibson, Patrick Rollins, and Cody Rowan, Ashley Emerson, myself. So that was going to be a different, a different face of ESEE knives. And It was something very different for the company to come out with uncoated 1095, leather sheaths, a 90-degree angle, and on my model to have a Scandinavian grind was— these were all new things for them. And they, they did it quite well. I'm happy I still use today. Well, yesterday, I still use my original one. It's not really the prototype. It's the first production. And the first prototype I actually gave away at a blade show. Drawing. Yeah, I'm not really attached to gear and equipment and things like that. So for me to give it away, it was like, you sure you want to do that? Yeah, I can get another one.

Nice.

And that was interesting because I— you naturally take what you did last and you try to improve on it or change it up a little bit. And I really was proud of the handle for the ESEE RB3 knife. Just because it was, it was like 2 knives in my head, the most comfortable knives I've ever used. One is a Mora Model Number 1 Classic. And another one was ML's version of a Kephart knife, which was very contoured, rounded. Nothing said you have to put your finger here. It was like a blank canvas.

Sure.

And it was comfortable in that way. And And I think we ended up with a broomstick style handle that is universal with the RB3 and the way, you know, the Romans were able to do the handle where it was rounded. And at that point, every knife that they had done had flats, flat sections of the scale. So it was, it was quite a big step for everybody involved with the company. And it was interesting, cool to be part of that process.

Yeah, no, that's great. Reuben, we're coming up on time here. But just a couple other quick questions. What outdoor brands do you see are doing just a great job of product quality these days?

Well, I would have to say one of them that I, I don't know if it would interest so much of the survival industry people as much as the backpackers and travelers is Gosmer Gear. They have been a brand I've been using for a very long time for backpacking, for traveling, for hiking. Very good quality overall products. I use them. I still use them in the backgrounds of photos for magazines and good, reliable, lightweight stuff. Uberleben is a company that is not exactly new anymore. They've been around a few years, but they just consistently put out durable, good gear. They're very robust. I've had several pieces of their gear that I hiked them out to the forest one time and they never made it back. They, they just— they're cached out there in my semi-permanent camp, and I got them hidden or up in a tree and someplace where I'd use them. And, um, I do a lot of gear testing, as you know, so one of the best types of gear testing is neglect and seeing how it's going to react outdoors over a certain period of time.

Sure.

I've had amazing results with them in every way. And I found a lot of their gear to be multifunctional, not just one-dimensional, like, like one of their pots. They have a pot that's metal, all metal. I have one with paracord handle, but it has a wooden, has a wooden lid lifter, I guess.

Yeah.

And what people don't realize is it makes an excellent impromptu cutting board. And when you cut, now you're just looking for a surface that is not going to damage your knife blade. So when you cut food on it, the way the, the rim of the lid is, is it kind of keeps food on. So if you're cutting, let's say, vegetables or pieces of sausage, it is not going to roll past that point. So it kind of keeps it together. That is something I don't think they did that well on purpose. It just looked cool and it was a safe way to lift your lid. But it is another thing you can do. And And another way you can just make some quick cuts.

Cool.

So that was multifunctional. That top of that lid, it unscrews, leaving just a little bit, you know, sticking out of the thread of the screw. Now you have an all-metal piece that is like a Dutch oven. Now you can bake in it, put coals on top. So something like that, I look at it and think that it could do a whole lot more than just be a pot or a kettle. So I think they do a really good job Tough Possum gear. They do a lot of really interesting pieces of gear with a great backstory. I do consider Jay Berry one of the good guys in the industry and, and just, just a good guy. Great history with his, how he got started making gear and starting with machines from his grandmother and his father and just great story. And he puts out a lot of multifunctional pieces of gear like a sit pad, which is great for fanning the flames. It's good for hiding tinder in. It's good for putting something that you want to stay flat. You can store it inside there. It's good for sitting on. I use backpacks that don't have a frame. They're frameless. So putting that in the back gives me a little bit of a frame. And yeah, and it's not— what if I have a little skillet or something that I'm taking or like a a knife handle. It's not jabbing me, and it just does a lot for you. You could put that under your feet in super cold weather as you're sleeping at night, and it's enough to keep you insulated. Because it opens at the top, you could stuff more, more things in there if you wanted to. So it's just full of great uses. That's only one piece of gear they have. I've had the luxury of using several pieces of their gear, and it's just top-notch. So that's Tough Possum gear. A lot of good companies out there. So many, I could just think of a wazoo. Survival Gear making a big splash. Good stuff, things you can wear, useful, and just, just great products, great overall marketing, everything. Another company I'd look out for them, Rewild. Yeah, I'd look out for those guys. They got a few tricks up their sleeve. I like them.

Got some cool things coming up.

You guys do. You guys do. I almost want to put you on the spot and ask you about the Gasper 3. I don't know where it was. I was reading or listening to maybe your podcast I was listening to. Is that where you mentioned that?

Yeah. So that's something we're talking about. It's, it's just kind of in the design phase. We're trying to figure that out. So the Gasper, what we're tentatively calling the Gasper 3, would be a shortened version of the current Gasper 4 with a different steel, probably either LC200N, or we're looking at the What is it, the new CroMag as well, some of those, and would be more like a river runner slash dive knife. So it's going to be more water oriented. So like if you're a rafting guide or canoeing, kayaking, or just even diving, something that's a little bit smaller but still kind of a similar blade profile. So we are currently, you know, playing around with that, but nothing definitive yet.

Cool. So we'll stay tuned.

Yeah, exactly.

I'll be sure to look out for it. Who knows? I may end up putting it on the COVID of a magazine one day. There you go.

Yeah, because the Gasper Four is going to be oh, it's a couple magazines here pretty soon.

It's going to be into it. It is already submitted for American Frontiersman magazine.

Super.

I I got the chance to do a whole a whole just an overview on on your company, your brothers and. And there's a lot of great things on your website, great wording to kind of grab and piece, throw in. And, and so that's going to be all the gear you have. And Knives Illustrated is going to run Gasper 4 and the grill. It's going to be geared toward camp cooking. So those two— Yeah, well, together. I was doing some more. I checked on it yesterday. As I told you, it's been buried in the snow. And In the sheath and then outside of the sheath. And it's looking good. I'll have visual aids I'll share with you. Great. And I will do some more with it this week because that is going to be in— my deadline is March for that.

Yeah.

And then I think EDC Magazine, I'm going to be able to put the, the, well, your bellows, your firelight, your ferro rod, And the Pyro Balls. Yeah, all in one. It's just gonna be an EDC.

Cool.

Fire in the pocket, pocket pants, hot pants. I'm working on it. I'm working with it.

Got it.

So, so that'll be, that'll be at least 3 articles on the— Yeah, we're excited.

Me too.

Me too. It's good gear. Thanks for that. Pleasantly surprised with it.

Yeah. Reuben, is there a book or books that you've read over the years that have just really impacted your life?

That's implying I can read. Yes, I'm gonna throw it out there and it's probably one you've heard from people, you know, like me. I would say one of the first books that really got me going is the John Lofty Wiseman SAS Survival book. It's a standard. I had the very small pocket version. Years later, my brother had the larger version and it has more. photos and just a little more content in there. That was, that was a good book to have right off the bat where you have, you have sections you can look up just camp craft, you can look up shelters. And I've always geared toward tool use and shelter type of stuff. So I'd say John Lofty Wiseman. Favorite, probably long resonating book is going to be DC Beard. His, his Shacks and Shanties is great, and it's published sometime in the early 1900s. But by far the 2 that come to mind, Camp Lore and Woodcraft. And then there's Camping and Woodcraft. There's all different versions of that between Horace Kephart And George Sears Nesmuk.

Yep.

George Sears Washington Nesmuk. Super, super huge. I can recite passages from them to fit most occasions. I often do and quote them in magazines. I think the things they were saying back then still holds water today. And yeah, Horace Kephart, his book has just become The encyclopedia, the go-to.

Yeah, the classic.

Oh, it is. It is. I have one from 1912. I also have another version from 1917 or 1918. I know my friend Patrick has probably all different versions of it. But his design of knife, the fact that he really fancied, so he says, an 8-ounce headed tomahawk. I have so many tomahawks. The lightest one I have is 10 ounces, so I don't know. But I guess—

Interesting.

Yeah. And he used to call it his little trick, his little camp trick. And—

Maybe a product opportunity for you there.

Well, it's, it's, it's definitely been done. There is some kind of literature on the Cole Cluster, Cole Cluster Brothers, these brothers coming out with gear, you know. Yeah. So yeah, those books, I would definitely— and I have to say, Bushcraft from Morris Kohanski, the late great. That was a 1986 publication. But I think that has the— that is the best book that describes saw, axe, hatchet, and knife use. It is, he says, the most amount of information in such a small passage. That is hard to do. And I really like it.

Yeah.

As far as knife use and how to, That is the book. If somebody said, what's the best knife use book, that is it. And I like how he stresses just how most people gravitate toward it. I'm a fan of what works. I'm not a fan of this technique, but most people gravitate toward using their thumb on the spine to do a lot of things. And I, I don't think I, I have in probably 12 years. And It's just the way he describes it and why. And I really think that impacts the way people make their feather sticks, fuzz sticks, whatever you want to call them. Thumb on the spine is usually the one reason why they don't stay on the stick. And I like just his thoughts about the knife blade, thinness, the handle, and the diagrams in the book. Well, on to saw. use. His explanation of it is great. It's safe. And he goes on to saying that it is one of the only safe ways you can use a tool in the dark if you had to, and probably the only safe cutting tool a blind person could use.

Wow.

Or somebody who has had eye damage in the outdoors. So that's, that's a very good point. Saw. That being said, I've been cut worse and more often by a saw than any knife or edgy tool ever. And, if you've ever been cut by a saw, it doesn't leave an easy-to-fix cut. You can't just sew it up. It's quite jacked like a jack-o'-lantern took a bite out of you. But yeah, definitely Bushcraft, Morris Kohanski. That is a huge book for me.

Well, we'll get all those added to the show notes. Ruben, this has been so much fun. What is one piece of advice you'd like to leave with our audience?

Well, I would say when it comes to outdoor skills, whether it be travel, recreational hiking, camping, do it, do it more, do it often. The more you do it, the more you'll like it, you'll enjoy it. I'm going to quote something off your website. You mentioned, you guys mentioned that you believe the more people spend time outdoors, the better people they are. Something to that effect. I probably butchered it. And that rings true. I'm glad that I saw that on your website because it's— I might even use that in a class or something.

Yeah.

That is good advice. You see studies of that, you see stories of that too. It is probably like laughter. The next best free medication for anything is to be outside, to be outdoors. Something about it, it just, it sets you back in a way where you could just kind of be in that moment of something as simple as the sound of the creek or the odd sound ice makes when it's kind of settling and thawing out. These things you don't see every day or hear every day.

Yeah.

And so, there are so many great things and benefits that the outdoors has to offer. And, I don't just mean the mountains, the woods, I'm talking I'm talking the desert. I'm talking just the rainforest, everything. There's, there's so much out there. And, and, uh, take it to the next step and see how many mushrooms you can spot. Just remember, every mushroom is edible once, at least once. It's a great—

Some are more fun than others.

Right. That's what they say. It's a great opportunity if you are interested in any type of photography, You can do that. You don't need a camera for that. Phones these days, get out in the woods. There's so many natural and unnatural art shapes, weird occurrences in nature that you can't even duplicate, you know, if you, if you tried. So just yesterday, I was taking a lot of photos of weird ice on, on this creek.

Oh, cool.

Like, looks like, like, like somebody was painting. My advice to people who want to get into the outdoors is just to keep doing it. Do it with a friend. Do it in any way you possibly can. If it's skills you want to do, take the time to improve on it. Do it slowly. Don't try to jump in. Let YouTube be your friend, guide. Let books confirm it and other people.

Try it.

See what works. Most importantly, make all the mistakes you can in a controlled environment, whether it be your backyard or a car camp or something, because those mistakes are gonna lead to all the successes, whether it be gear or skills related.

Yeah, I agree with all that. It's fantastic advice. Reuben, just to close up here, where can people learn more about you online if they want to follow you and catch up?

Really, I'm just on Instagram right now. I don't have a website. I don't really sell anything, just a bunch of BS. So yeah, Instagram, just my name, R-E-U-B-E-N B-O-L-I-E-U. And I have Adventure Food Guy, which is just the culinary side of my endeavors. Sure. I just post travels, videos of food and pictures of food abroad, and just a lot of things I make on a regular basis and make in the outdoors. That's one of my favorite parts about being in the outdoors is cooking.

It tastes better over an open flame.

Sure does. Yeah, indeed.

Wonderful, Reuben. Thanks so much for being on the show today. Really appreciate your time, and for listening, stay wild.

Thanks for listening to the Rewild Gear Podcast. You could check out the show notes for today's episode at RewildGearPodcast.com. If you're ready to spend more time in the wild, our line of high. Our high-quality, minimalistic outdoor gear can help you do just that. Check us out at rewildgear.com.