116: Breaking down The Kardashians, The Championship Chicago Bulls Team & The Howard Stern Show by Enneagram type

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Welcome to the Becoming Bulletproof podcast. I am your host, Tracy o'. Malley. I'm a mom to millennials, an author, Enneagram expert and multi million dollar entrepreneur, and master performance and business coach. I've gone from rock bottom to building a bulletproof business and life. If you're looking for the unfiltered transparent truth and even an extra kick in the ass, you will discover that here. Each week I'll be bringing you success stories of high level entrepreneurs as we discover how they became bulletproof and created their empire. You'll learn the story behind the glory along with Enneagram inspired truths so you can ignite your own purpose, profits and build your legacy. It's time for you to become bulletproof. Buckle up. Let's go.

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Welcome to the Becoming Bulletproof podcast and today's episode is going to be so good. I have been wanting to do this one for a very long time and I wanted to do my due diligence because.

You know, leadership is something I'm super passionate about. It's where this podcast is going to be going. And using the framework of the Enneagram around my leadership formula. It's one of the most important things that I use in my leadership, whether it's in my home, leading my home, or in my businesses. I've used it working with hundreds of thousands of people. So I know the power of the Enneagram. And today I wanted to break down three popular teams of people, how leadership has worked through them. One is a radio show, one is a sports team, and one are influencers. And these three teams are familiar to pretty much everyone. Unless you live under a rock. This in no way, like, it doesn't matter if you can't stand these people or if you love a different team or if you don't agree with any of their beliefs. I don't even care about any of that. This is just about team dynamics and why they were and have been so successful. The first one I'm going to talk about is the Howard Stern show. And I know there's many of you that are like, oh God, please don't shut off the radio. Don't shut off your podcast right now because this is really, really important. Because the power four in the Stern show, we've got Howard, Robin, Fred and Gary have been around for 35 years together. They've been working together for 35.

The face of radio, they single handedly brought Sirius XM to life. They were the first person, the first popular person and group that came to satellite radio and they put that on the map, which pretty much any car you buy now, that's what you get. It's all I listen to. I don't even listen to regular radio anymore. And whether you hate Howard, love him, whatever. For a team like that to be together for over 30 years and be as successful as they have, there's some leadership dynamics that happen in there. And the Enneagram and how that works. The second thing I'm going to second team I'm going to talk about are the Chicago Bulls Dream Team. You know, the documentary the Last Dance was on in 2020. And you know, I grew up in Chicago. I was in my college years when they went on that run. That was documented in that series. And I mean, everybody knows Michael Jordan, but the other players like Phil Jackson and Scottie Pippen and Dennis Rodman also were a huge part of why that worked. If you watch the documentary, you, you can see why. And I break them down by Enneagram type too and, and maybe some differing opinions on their types. And the last team I'm going to talk about is the Kardashians. And I don't care if you can't stand them. They have had 17.

On TV. They have built multibillion dollar enterprises. Not just one of them, not just them as a unit, but individually as well. And the very different dynamics and how they have taken an opportunity and made it into an empire for sure. I don't care what you think about any of these people. Something worked, right? And I love to. I mean, it's something that I do whenever I'm watching anything, whether it's real tv, politics, reality shows, sitcoms, anything I start going into, I wonder what they are, I wonder what they are. And this is something I really want to bring to your attention is a lot of times we will make the assumption of somebody's type. This is why it's so, so important to be a really good listener and to be a really great question asker when it comes to using the Enneagram and leadership and having an idea of what type you're dealing with. And if you haven't listened to my episode on the stances.

That will help you really narrow things down as far as, okay, this might be where we're at. Again, it is not anybody's job to start typing people and labeling people. It's really, really important. But what I have said before, and I will reiterate again, is when you kind of know you're getting close, you can start talking to people as though they are. And you will know when it lands, and you'll know when it sticks. I was using the Enneagram for four years in my home with my children, which is where I first started integrating it almost a decade ago. And for four years, I was using the Enneagram, and neither one of my children knew that I was speaking to one of them as though they were two and the other as though they were seven. But I knew I was spot on a. Because I know them very, very well. I know what motivates them, and it worked. And it wasn't until they were 18 and 19, I think that I brought it to their attention of, like, hey, did you know this? What I've been kind of. This is how I figured out how to communicate with you better. So I want to say that again. You know, judging people and putting a type label on them based on their behaviors will get you nowhere, because a lot of times the behaviors that we see aren't necessarily the core motive. A lot of times it's a compensatory strategy. It's a way that we have learned how to address things maybe early on in our childhood or when we're under stress. And so it's funny, because when I was kind of going through my assessment of the Stern show, the Bulls team, and the Kardashians.

The reason I picked these three, quite honestly, is I have been listening to the Stern show for over 30 years. I started listening to them, I believe it was in 1990. And so I've listened to their stories over the last 30 years, and I know what motivates them. And it's funny, because when I went online and started Googling, you know, certain people in the Enneagram, I think some of them are right, but I think a lot of times they're wrong, because a lot of the people talking about the Enneagram are just going off the behaviors. But because I've been a student of the Stern Show, I really, really have. Howard is the best interviewer of all time, in my opinion. I think they've got him pegged wrong. And I will explain why. The Bulls team, obviously, growing up in Chicago, I know them, and. And, you know, I've read so much about the Bulls and, you know, living there. I heard the interviews in real time back in the day. And then, obviously, when we watched the Last Dance, we got a real inside look at what motivates each one of them.

And I think there's some inaccuracies in what Google says about some of their types. And obviously, the Kardashians you know, 17 seasons, you really get to the root of what motivates them. And the Kardashians, I think, and I will explain why, because when I was Googling them, there was a lot of opinions on what their types were. But a lot of times they don't take into account of, like, where people go under stress, where people go when they're growing. And I will get into all of that because I think that that really, that's how I help people type get typed properly. I asked lots of questions on what it looks like when they're under stress, what it looks like when they're feeling confident.

What motivates them, what their childhood looked like, where they sought approval from a parent or a teacher or coach. And so there's so many different dynamics in the Enneagram and using it in leadership. But I will explain why these teams work so well. So. So the Howard Stern Show. Love him or hate him, Howard was born in 1954. So that makes him, gosh, he's 67ish. I think his birthday is in January. So I think he will be 67 this year. And on Google he's mistyped, I believe, as either a one or a seven. And if you've listened to Howard, you know, he's very much ocd. He. He talks about it very openly. He can seem all over the place. So that looks very 7ish, which is also something that they have said. And because of his anxiety, people assume that seven may come into play. Some people have said he might be a seven with an eight wing. I don't believe that to be true. I really, really don't. Because as I've listened to Howard for over 30 years, that man is all heart. He's the most sensitive man when he is under stress in the way he deals things. Although, yes, he can be very, very aggressive and em.

Out there.

When he is under stress, he kind of withdraws, which is very much this type that I think he is. He is very, very creative. And if you've listened, you know, he paints. He is into photography. He also has been into chess. He is a partner with his wife for the cat rescue for North Shore Animal League. And so I believe Howard Stern is an enneagram 4, which is the most emotional on the Enneagram. They're also the most intuitive. He is a very emotional man.

When I see.

Him growing, when he has more structure. He's a very structured guy too. Very set in his ways, which is why I believe he is mistyped as a one, but a Four in a growth pattern takes on the healthy one. Howard does do well with structure. He can contain his emotions and be more. More decisive in his moves. But I'm telling you, that man can really just fly off a handle, which is something that a four can do. He has the emotional range. He can go from being angry, which a four under stress takes on the unhealthy two, which looks like an eight. Sometimes they can get very defensive and argumentative and aggressive, which then he feels terrible sometimes. You know, you won't see that a lot, but, you know, if you've read his book, his newest book, what the hell is it called? I can't remember. It's sitting on my coffee table. But some of the things he regrets is when he would go aggressive at somebody. The shame that came with that. Four's underlying emotion is shame. Although a lot of times with Howard, you will see anger or anxiety, I believe underneath all of it is the core thing is shame. And the core motive for a 4 is significance. And let me tell you, that man has been trying to make his mark on the air for decades. And if you know anything about Howard Stern and his history with his parents, you know, he grew up in a rough part of New York, and he was always trying to win his approval of his dad. He couldn't do it. His mom wasn't the most emotionally nurturing. So Howard has a fear of abandonment, which is the. The worry of a four, as well as the core kind of thorn in the four side is envy. It doesn't mean that they're jealous, but they believe that there's something missing in them. And I think that's been part of Howard's strive to make his mark and be his most authentic self. Sometimes a little over the top. But I believe that's why Howard has been so successful. That creativity, that intuitive nature of knowing how to push. Push the envelope a little bit to stand out in the crowd. Now, his sidekick, who he's had from the very beginning, is Robin. Robin Quivers, and I believe she's an 8. People have mistyped her, I think, as a 6 because of the name the loyalist, and she's been by Howard's side. But knowing Robin and her history, like I know all her history as well, she's very much an 8. She grew up very rough. She was abused by her father.

She is definitely somebody who.

Is independent. She's a more assertive type. Even how she approaches everything is very assertive, whether it's her health regimen. Even when she had cancer a couple Years back. She reminds me a lot of myself sometimes, and it's no big deal. People were like, oh, my God. And she just handled it like a champ. Very independent, doesn't really need anyone.

Is a power move maker. She's a protector of Howard, of the show, of herself. And very aggressive sometimes and very opinionated and very domineering, but very decisive, too. She is very quick to make decisions, and she's got Howard's back forever. I think she winks sometimes the nine way, sometimes the seven way. She's able to have a good time and see the bigger picture and be an optimist. An optimist sometimes. Howard, I think, definitely wings three when it comes to work and that competitive nature. He wants to win all the time. All the time. When ratings were a thing back on regular radio, that was a big deal for him. But I also see him winging to the five side, too. When he goes down the rabbit hole of learning something. When he was learning chess, like, he was like, in the black hole of learning about it. Same thing with photography. Whenever he's interested in something, he really researches it, which is that five wing. Now, Fred. Fred is like the guy that most people don't know. He's hard to get to know. He's very introverted, very secretive. His first name, like, it's funny, like Howard has been. I think Fred was actually the first one with Howard before Robin even. And Howard jokes all the time. I've worked alongside him for close to 40 years, and I still don't even know Fred. He's very five. And there's been game shows on the Stern show about, like, beating Fred. Fred knows everything about everything. He's random fact guy. He prefers to be a behind the scenes guy, which is very, very common for fives. They don't want to be the main event a lot of times, they want to be the backup dancer, so to speak. And Fred is the epitome of five. With his knowledge, with.

Brain, with his introverted ways, with his ability to detach emotionally. That is one of the qualities. It's a great quality of the five, especially when you're dealing with somebody like Howard, who is so emotional and somebody like Robin, who is very intense, having that balance, somebody who can detach emotionally where it's a really good strength. Now, detaching emotionally isn't always great for relationships, however, with the dynamics of Howard and Robin and Fred, who are the three that have been there from the beginning, it works very, very well. Now. Gary Baba Booie, Gary Della Bate. I've seen him typed as 3 before, but I don't believe that to be true. I think Gary is the epitome of the loyalist, in my opinion. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty, pretty sure I've been listening to this for a long time. So I think Gary is the loyalist.

You know.

You know, being the. In the role that he is, he has to think 10 steps ahead. He has to have all his ducks lined up, especially dealing with somebody like Howard, because if things don't go Howard's way, he loses it. And so Gary always has to have, like, the itinerary. He's always got to be troubleshooting because if something goes wrong, how is Howard going to react? It is one of Gary's skill sets in arranging all the interviews and how he talks to clients and guests and all of that. The other reason I think Gary is a six is because when he's in a growing pattern, he takes on that healthy nine, which is that peacemaker and the ability to see the bigger picture. And Gary is just so lovable. He takes the jokes that get thrown at him. I also think that's part of his peacemaker and his maturity. When he was younger, when he would get ripped on, he.

Would probably go into more of that unhealthy 3, which is where a 6 goes under stress and that, you know, competitive and trying to prove himself all the time with the blinders on.

When. When I hear about. When I heard about the. There's a videotape that Gary recorded for a girlfriend back 30 years ago, and just. It's so unhealthy 3. It's ridiculous. That narcissistic kind of like, pattern that an unhealthy three can take on. But when. When. When Gary is healthy, which he's in his 50s now, which is unbelievable, I believe he embodies the loyalists. I believe he wings seven big time. He's very, very social. He loves to be social. He is a big picture guy. He's very optimistic. I don't see Gary going much into his five wing, but definitely playing hard in his. His seven for sure. And then that enthusiast role, he's fun, too. Okay, so there's two, like, people that aren't on the show anymore, but I believe they're the same type. Artie Lang and Jackie Martling. Jackie came before Artie, but I believe both of them are enneagram sevens, you know, center of attention.

Want to steal the show. They're very, very different, but very much alike, too. Artie, obviously, if you know, the Stern show has struggled for the last few decades with addiction. Artie avoids pain. A lot of comedians are sevens. A lot of comedians also are fours. But I believe both of them fall into the category of the seven that avoidance of pain don't want to be trapped into a hard situation. Jackie was a little more rigid than Artie, but I believe both of them are enneagram sevens. And I believe that's why the Howard Stern show works so well. Quite honestly. You've got all these different dynamics. You've got Howard in the heart triad, you've got Robin in the body or instinctual triad, and you've got Fred and Gary in the head triad. And I think having, you know, those dynamics have been what makes it work so well. And when you have people together for over 30 years, every single day, I mean, they've spent more hours a day with each other on air than a lot of families do. And they've had their fights along the years. But I believe that's why this. This leadership team works so well. And I know they just signed on for another five years, and, I mean, Howard's going to be 67 this year. It's crazy. All right, now we're moving to the sports team. The Bulls. The Bulls. The dream team. And, you know, I believe they probably would have won seven in a row if Michael didn't retire for that little bit.

But it's. It's interesting, you know, watching the last dance, it brought so many memories back for me. Like I said, I was when they were winning those championships, I was high school, college years, and I worked. My very first job as a bartender was at a sports bar during the playoffs of the first time they won, and then moving to Arizona in the. In 93 when we beat the Suns, it was very, very cool. So, you know, being watching the Bulls from the time Michael came and watching that team get built with Phil Jackson and Scottie Pippen and then, you know, Dennis Rodman, just to name a few. I mean, there's many other players that have come and gone along the way, but these are like the main four, I would say, that really embodied the leadership of that. That Bulls team in the last dance. So, you know, it always starts at the top. I really do. In any leadership, whether it's in your family, in businesses, in teams, in anything, it always starts at the top. And.

With Phil Jackson leading the way with the Bulls, I don't think there was any other coach that could have navigated that team. And if you watched that documentary, you see why. At first, I thought Phil might be an 8 because I see that intensity, I see that decisiveness, but he doesn't have the like, you know, he's there, but it's, it's something different. So I believe that Phil Jackson is a 9. And you've heard me talk about the Enneagram 9, which is the peacemaker before. And when they're super healthy and he is one of the healthiest nines ever, they take on this Yoda, like wisdom. And my personal coach, he is also a nine. And they're very similar in this way where Phil Jackson like, he's there and you, you, he's always navigating the environment and understanding the environment, which is the superpower of the nine, where an eight kind of just bulldozes through. Um, but I think Phil Jackson's wing, he can wing nine or I'm sorry, wing eight from his nine, but he can also wing one. He has a very strong one, wing two. And, and I think the healthier you get, the ability to toggle between your wings and use them effectively, both, sometimes equally, is a benefit of gaining that strength. And Phil Jackson is that Yoda, like he can read a situation in the environment.

And knowing when to, you know, let Dennis go, be Dennis, Dennis Rodman, we'll get into him in a second. Knowing when to say what he has to say to Michael, knowing when to let Michael go for it. That is very nine, very, very much nine. Nines have the ability to see the bigger picture and embody the other 8 enneagram types better than any other type because they're at the top of the Enneagram. The other thing, when a nine is in a growth pattern, which Phil Jackson is all the time, he taps into that healthy three, which is that competitive, achieving, winning, knows what it takes to set a goal and crush it. So that's when nines are healthy. That's why they're so unstoppable, because they have this easygoing nature. They have this like no judgment kind of energy, which is beautiful. They don't necessarily need to be center stage, but when they're growing, that embodying of that three is like why some world class leaders that are nines really can move the needle for things. My personal coach, Phil Jackson. So then we get into Michael Jordan, who I have said is probably the threeest three I've ever seen.

Next to one of the other people I'm going to talk about. But when I was googling online, a lot of people said he's an eight. And no, no, see, an eight believes they're always going to be betrayed. And.

They'Re achieving and domineering ways. I mean they're both assertive types for sure. If you listen to the stance episode, threes and eights are very much assertive threes. A lot of threes are mistyped as eights. I see this a lot, especially the more aggressive threes and the more like go after it kind of threes. But Michael isn't motivated by the fear of being betrayed or violated like an eight is.

That's why I think Robin quivers is an eight, by the way. But Michael Jordan and if you watch the interviews and if you know Michael Jordan, everything about him, he believed early on in his life and he is, he's wired this way. He believes that his worth is in what he does, how he wins, the appearances of what that looks like, the blinders on. Like doesn't care what relationships get severed from his need to win. You saw it. It's when he actually got really emotional and stopped the recording of the episode during the documentary. He is all heart. He is all heart. And when he doesn't win, it crushes him. Like it's not okay. Where an 8 is very like we don't have to win all the time. We really, really don't. But a three does. And that's why I think Michael Jordan is a three. I think he wings probably more too because he does care. He does want to help his teammates be better, which is very to like. I think he can be four in his four wing, but not very much so. Michael Jordan in my opinion is the three is three of all time. So when a three is in growth pattern, they can take on the healthier six. And that troubleshooting. And I think that's what makes him.

His ability to really get in the heads of the other teams and other players.

You know, he can kind of see like if I do this, this can set them off, you know, so it's not just like blinders on and crush goals, but he also has a strategic mind too. When he's healthier and growing and even the coaches he's hired, if you've read the book Relentless by Tim Grover, I believe that helped him really step into that healthy six as well. Being more strategic. Not just, you know, win, win, win. But why like how we can more effectively win instead of just like burning hot all the time, let's be more effective in how we win. So I believe that that. But hiring the right coaches for Michael really helped him embody the six. That being said, I Believe Scottie Pippen is an enneagram 6. Some people think he's more of a 9, but I don't believe so. I believe that Scottie Pippen, and watching the documentary and knowing what I know about Scotty, his need, he is motivated by certainty, not necessarily truth like a nine is, but he needed certainty. And even the way that he negotiated contrary tracks and, you know, would take less than he deserved because he wanted certainty. He wanted to stay in this team. He always wanted to have. Be alongside Michael and be part of that. That team. The three, or, I'm sorry, the six, when they're growing and are healthy, do embody that.

That healthy nine. So I can see why people might think he's a nine. You know, he is that. That kind of silent leader that you don't always see on the front line like a Michael Jordan. But when Scotty's under stress and you saw that when he got pissed off and, you know, was like, zero fucks, and it's like, fine, I'm not gonna. I'm gonna be a little stubborn. I believe that that was a six going into the unhealthy three. And that happens a lot. And this is why, like, the Enneagram is so more complex than just behavior. So you have to take into consideration the core motive of.

You know, A6's stance is more compliant, right? It's more compliant or dutiful. The ones, the Twos and the Sixes, they're. They're more about that where. If Scotty was a nine, I don't see him withdrawing so much as more as, like, following rules and protocol. All right, and that brings us to Dennis Rodman.

One of the forest fours you'll ever see. Clearly the fours seeking their individual self. Like, think about Dennis Rodman and Howard Stern. Very much alike in some ways, but very different. Both very rebellious, Both want to make their mark in the world. If you haven't listened to the interview, Dennis Rodman's been on the Howard Stern show quite a bit. Great interviews, by the way. But Dennis has always kind of had this fear of abandonment, for sure. Felt like something was always missing from him. You see that in his really flamboyant ways. Very, very highly, highly emotional, right? And can be explosive like the unhealthy two, which is where the. The four can go. But this is why I think with the Bulls and Phil Jackson at the helm, Dennis was able to be his very, very best, because a 4 with even very little structure. And what I usually tell Enneagram fours, because they. They Rebel against.

Doing the mundane. They want to be unique and their own person, which I'm totally for. However, a four in a growth pattern takes on the healthy one, which is that improver.

The reformer, the perfectionist. So this is where Phil Jackson is fucking brilliant as a 9. And understanding and seeing this, that letting Dennis be Dennis, which you saw, he did, but giving him a little bit of structure, even if it's one, two or three things, like usually with four, as I say, pick three things to have structure around, and you will embody your authenticity. You will be the very best you are, and you'll get more confident. You won't go to shame as much. And I think this is why Phil Jackson is the only coach that could have led Dennis into his greatness that we all saw as a Chicago Bull, because Phil knew when to let him go and be crazy. And he also knew when to, like, push him into a little bit of structure. Right. He let Dennis go be Dennis, though. And I think that's why we got the best Dennis Rodman we could when he played for the Bulls. All right, third and final team. And this one, this one was a little more challenging. And it is the Kardashian empire. And I'm really just going to focus on the ladies of. Of the team. Kris, Courtney Kim, Khloe, Kylie and ke.

Because they're the ones that really are the face of the last 17 episode or 17 seasons of that. I mean, they think they came on the scene on TV in 2007. So we're like 14 years. I think this is their last year. But at the helm is Kris Frickin Jenner. And my daughter makes fun of me all the time. She calls me Chris all the time. And I see why. Chris, I believe, is an 8. People have said she's a 3, and I can see why. But again, threes and eights can be very mistyped. Does Chris like to win all the time? Yes. Yes, she does. But an 8 can, too. But I think her motive is to protect her family legacy. It isn't necessarily to win everything. I don't believe that Chris, at her core, is rooted in. She has to win everything. But I believe that she is the ultimate protector of her empire, of her family.

People have said she might be a two as well, and this is why. Because an eight in a growth pattern takes on the healthy two. That compassionate, empathetic. I mean, she's very emotional and involved with her family, and that's because I believe Kris Jenner, in a healthy form, takes on the two But I believe that Chris is an eight. I believe that she has a nine wing in kind of like how Phil Jackson does. Can see the bigger picture. Absolutely. I also see Chris step into her seven wing with the fun, the innovative kind of coming up with new ideas. But that 8, that decisive energy, I believe, is why Kris Jenner is an 8. I think that the core motive for her is protection and justice and truth for her family.

The other thing that I see is that intensity a lot of times. But people will probably disagree with me and say she might be a three. But like I said, threes and eights get mistyped a lot. Usually it's the other way around. Usually they're mistyped as an eight, but they're three. But with Chris, I really do believe that the core motive for everything for her is protecting what's theirs and at all costs. Okay, I'm just going in birth order. So we got Courtney, who drives me crazy, quite honestly. She, I think is a one on the enneagram. She's very black and white thinking, very, very rigid, very self absorbed sometimes. And I'll explain why. So a one under stress takes on the unhealthy four. Where you see Courtney be a little extra, where you see her make it all about her, which is an unhealthy four trait. Ones can be very, very critical, but ones are also very critical internally. Like they internalize.

A lot of their own kind of feelings. It's when.

Courtney kind of gets really emotional, but she is always. I call the ones the sheriffs. And if you follow or watched any of the shows over the last, you know, however many years, 15 years it is, and you know, they are the, the sheriffs, the, the integrity police, the high standards.

And they, they, they force all of us to step up our game. And Courtney definitely does that. She's annoying as hell sometimes, but. But they definitely keep the standards high and really are black and white, good or bad, right or wrong. There's no gray area. Now this is where we see Courtney shine because in a growth pattern, the one takes on that healthy seven, that enthusiast. It's where we see Courtney like lighten up a little bit and have some fun and let her hair down and maybe think outside of her pretty rigid box. And I think she wings two mostly as a mom for sure. Her kids are everything to her. I think Courtney is definitely heart a lot of the time in her two wing. I don't see her in her nine wing as much as I do in her two wing. Now Kim Kardashian next To Michael Jordan is the three is three I've ever met. It's why, like, she wins at all costs. It's why she took a scandal and turned it into this empire. It was because of Kim, you know, in a controversial tape that really put them on the map to begin with. She put herself in positions and places. I mean, Paris Hilton was her best friend and she was like, you know, the unknown friend of Paris Hilton. She knows exactly what she needs to be, especially early on. In her early days.

She knew what she needed to be to make waves and win and move the needle forward.

She is the epitome of a three. Now, that being said, I also think she wings two a lot, especially as a mom and in her family. And I think her innovative creative thinking outside the box comes in that four wing of hers. So, you know, especially since that incident in Paris where she was robbed, I saw a big change in in her because a lot of times the threes can have the blinders on and are oblivious to anything around them as long as they're winning. And we saw that in Kim Kardashian a lot. Right. But since that incident, I have seen a shift in her in a growing way. And this is when, you know, I was talking about Michael Jordan hiring that coach. I saw the shift in Kim as well, going into that healthy six, that troubleshooting loyalist, right.

When she went to law school and, you know, realized that she had had blinders on and was oblivious to anything but Kim's little world. I think since then, Kim has really elevated her growth. And I see that healthy six. And in pretty much everything she does today, she doesn't necessarily have to be all about winning all the time. She does win.

And she's very strategic. That's very much going into that healthy six.

I really like Kim today. I like who she's become. I mean, she just turned 41, I think. So we've watched her grow up from a bratty 25 year old to a beautiful.

Smart, savvy businesswoman and pioneer, helping people, you know, that have been wrongly accused of crimes. I mean, I gotta give it to her. I didn't like Kim very much back in the day. I was like, what in the world? But that's also me growing too. I used to judge threes pretty hardcore. But I love who Kim Kardashian is becoming in that healthy six. Now when she isn't doing so well and she's under stress, it's when she isolates, shuts down, lets her health go a little bit, you know, We've seen her fluctuate in that. And that. That is when a three goes under extreme stress, they take on that sloth nature of that unhealthy nine. All right, we get to Chloe. A lot of.

Things online think that Chloe is a nine, the peacemaker. And I can see that. I can see that. But I see her more as that loyalist, kind of like Baba Bowie and Scottie Pippen. Right. Because a lot of sixes can be very aggressive. My best friend who's a six, she is more Chloe. Like, her and Chloe are a lot alike. Very aggressive.

You know, very domineering sometimes. But seriously, Chloe has a need for certainty and a six and a. When they're growing, do they do take on that healthy nine. So I can see where that peacemaker kind of, you know, she's always like the facilitator of, you know, the voice of reason sometimes. And I believe that's when she's in her healthier nine. But when a six is under stress, they can go into that. That three zone where it's a little more narcissistic. But I believe that Chloe definitely is the epitome of a loyalist for sure. And, you know, even in dealing with, you know, divorce and scandal, the way that she has dealt with it.

Is very six. Like, she also is. I mean, she is the loyal glue of the family. Sixes are such strong glue for any kind of organization. I believe everybody needs a healthy six in their life to keep things out of trouble. She thinks. She thinks things through. She likes things a certain way. She loves certainty, loves it. And so that's why I believe that she is a six. I think she wings more seven. That enthusiast, that fun loving. She's hilarious. I believe that's also 7 her wing. I don't see her in her 5 as much unless it's about something in particular, maybe in business, when she's researching her good American brand and. And other things. But. And I do believe she's got some introverted tendencies from time to time that have her leaning into her five wing. All right, Kylie. Kylie, I'm not sure about. She's hard to get to know. She really, really is. So I'm not 100% positive on her. I think she could be a three or a seven. I kind of want to say seven.

Because she is the big idea. I really want to say seven. She doesn't like being trapped in anything. Even watching her as a child.

I believe she's a seven.

You know, that she wins. I mean, she knew exactly what she was going to do. Even as a child, like watching back some of the older episodes.

You could see that that girl was going to make something of herself, but also is willing to pivot and change and be who she is and then kind of go introverted. She doesn't need to be.

On the forefront. In fact, she is quite introverted and private.

So I believe that Kiley might be a seven with a very strong eight wing and also a very strong six wing. For as young as she is, my goodness. But what she is is she's the big idea person and then she delegates. She's a hard worker, she knows what she wants, she changes it up all the time. Right. And it isn't afraid to take on risk. I mean, billionaire at 21 years old. And what I find about sevens that are super successful is they have a strong power team around them with people like they have their. Their power team. And if you think about the rest of the sisters and Chris, she has a power team of people around her that have strengths that she doesn't. And when I think of Kylie, she reminds me of my daughter in a lot of ways. And with Chris being an eight, that's the dynamic of me and my daughter. I see Chris and Kylie's relationship very similar to mine and my daughters.

So that's why I think Kylie is a 7.

Also, when a 7 is in a growth pattern, they do take on that healthy five, that more introverted part that. That container where their creativity and their innovation and their big crazy ideas come to life. And I see Kylie do that a lot, just like my daughter sometimes. And when that 7 is under stress, that's when they go to that unhealthy one where it's like very rigid all of a sudden, maybe a little emotional and self absorbed. So that's why I think Kylie is a seven. And then we have Kendall. Kendall, I think could either be a two or a six.

She's hard to. She's hard to get to know, quite honestly. She's kind of like this behind the scenes. I would probably lean more towards six with her just because she can detach a little bit more emotionally, where two is a little more emotional. Um, but she's a different kind of six. So with the six, like Chloe is a more counterphobic six, which is a more aggressive six, where I think Kendall is a phobic six, which is the more reserved one, they more sit back and observe and kind of feel things out. And I think, you know, Kendall can definitely lean into her seven wing, which is the enthusiast and Kind of have a good time. But I also think Kendall can go more into that five wing, that more reserved part of her. And so that's why I think Kendall Jenner is a six on the Enneagram. And if you think about the Kardashians, like, okay, we've got Chris and Courtney.

In the instinctual triad, you have Kim in the heart triad, and then you have Chloe, Kylie and Kendall in the head triad. And my goodness, you have a well rounded leadership team. And like I said with the Stern show, the Bulls team, the Kardashians, I don't care what you think about any of them. You can't argue that they got it right. They got it right to make success happen. And I believe, as you've, you know, we've been able to watch all three of these teams evolve over the course of decades. And you can see the growth pattern and the. Even the levels of humility that come. All three of them of those teams have faced adversity and challenges over the last few decades, and to see how they've navigated change and culture and all sorts of things. You can't argue that there is something to this leadership formula. And it's why I'm so passionate about the Enneagram and why it's so important to understand who you know you're leading, whether it's in love or business, entrepreneurship or combined. I mean, you think about it, a lot of these are intertwined and you can't compartmentalize integrity. I've said that a lot before too. And when you can bring out the very best in those that you lead and love, I think that's why these three teams have gone the distance and have evolved and pivoted and done exciting things all along the way. And I know that you are listening right now and you're like, oh, my gosh, God, she's right. I know I'm right. This is why I'm so passionate about bringing you more of the Enneagram and not just information, because information doesn't equal transformation. I could give a shit if I gave you information. If it doesn't help you move the needle, what the fuck's the point? And that is why I am so passionate about teaching integration of it, not just individually, but in teams. It's why leadership, the leadership formula is where this podcast is going and bringing the framework of the Enneagram to you so that you can use it. When you have a roadmap and you have a target, you are more likely to hit it and stay on track and so that's what we're going to be doing. And I am working heavily with teams. I am going to be bringing you more things to help your teams. We can do a group dynamic. It's where I really can geek out all day long and do workshops with you and your teams, your organizations, your businesses, your families. I do a lot of work with family units too. And if that is something that you want to hear more of or you want me to come in and help your team do, or if you or a friend has a podcast that you think that I would be a great episode on, just let me know. I think that the more that we can show how the Enneagram is integrated, not just giving you the fluffy information, I think the better off everyone will be. And when we can bring out the best in each other and when people feel seen, heard and understood, that's when the magic happens. And I could, I'm telling you, I watch TV now and movies just to kind of try and figure out their Enneagram type and why it works or why it doesn't work or where shit goes sideways. It's like putting puzzles together every day, which this girl loves. So if that is something you're interested in, reach out to me at my website, traceyomally.com or on Instagram, traceyomalley, or any of the socials like Facebook and LinkedIn and all of it. I'm there. I would love to hear what you thought of this episode. I would absolutely love your take. If you think I'm wrong, I will go toe to toe with you to prove you like why I've come to this and you kind of heard me break down. Why? I think some of the inaccuracies are out there. It's why so many of you are mistyped as well. But I would love to hear what you thought of this episode. And if there's other teams and other like team units that you want me to break down, I might do the Grey's Anatomy cast or like all the characters, the Grey's Anatomy too, because that one's been together for a long, long time too. But let me know. I would love to know what you want to hear more of. But until next time, here's to Becoming Bulletproof.

Thank you for tuning in to the Becoming Bulletproof podcast. If you learned a thing or two from our show today, it would mean a lot to me if you shared it and tagged me so I can hear exactly what landed on your heart. This will help me to bring you even more episodes with the topics and guests you want, please head over to I iTunes and leave an honest and loving five star review. If this made an impact on you, you can find me on Instagram traceyomalley and I have tons of free resources for you@traceeomalley.com as always, if you are wanting to ignite your purpose, profits and build your legacy, it's time to stand on the front line of your life and do the work. Let's become bulletproof. It.