135: Client Spotlight: Jill, the straight-shooting, telling it like it is Enneagram 1

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Welcome to the Becoming Bulletproof podcast. I am your host, Tracy o'. Malley. I'm a mom to millennials, an author, Enneagram expert and multi million dollar entrepreneur, and master performance and business coach. I've gone from rock bottom to building a bulletproof business and life. If you're looking for the unfiltered transparent truth and even an extra kick in the ass, you will discover that here. Each week, I'll be bringing you success stories of high level entrepreneurs as we discover how they became bulletproof and created their empire. You'll learn the story behind the glory along with Enneagram inspired truths so you can ignite your own purpose profits and build your legacy. It's time for you to become bulletproof. Buckle up, let's go.

All right, you guys, this is going to be a great conversation. I just know it now because when I met this beautiful woman a little over a year ago, I was drawn to her immediately. I don't know why. At the time, I didn't know why. And in the past, I probably wouldn't have liked her very much. Quite honestly, when I wasn't my healthy self, I probably would have been very triggered by her because she is a straight shoot, no bullshit. Tells it like it is very polarizing.

And the old me would have felt intimidated by that. But the growth in me, I actually respect the shit out of people that operate like that. And it's not coming in from a place to just argue. She's got like backup plans and, you know, backups to backups of everything she says. She, you know, she only speaks what she knows, but she speaks it loud and proud. And it is so refreshing when we meet people like this because in the world of these influencers and Polly and, and Bali and butterflies and all the fluffy bullshit, and even with all the reels that are so funny, like you wonder, is anybody fucking real anymore?

Let me tell you, my guest today, Jill, is one of the most real people I've ever met. And I'm grateful that she came into my life. I met her because I was doing typing sessions and typing interviews with an entire mastermind. And she was part of that mastermind. And some of the women that were in that mastermind kind of knew about the Enneagram. Some didn't. And of course, Jill being Jill is like, I know I'm an eight. People have told me I'm an eight. I must be an eight. I'm like, all right, well, we'll see. And so we go through the deal and she ain't an Eight. She's not an eight. Because if she was an eight, I probably wouldn't have been drawn to her, quite honestly, as much as I am. Because, you know, the reason I'm drawn to her is because she has something I don't. And it's beautiful. And we, we were able to get her typed properly and we discovered she actually is a type 1 on the Enneagram, which is called the Reformer. I call them, I call them also the warden and the sheriff because they keep shit in line for sure. They're the integrity police. They are the straight shooting, no bullshit, black and white thinking for the most part, when they're not at their very, very best. But they have an opinions and they're not afraid to share it. And they have an opinion how to improve everything. And that's especially when they're in a good state, which we'll get into when.

Why?

They make the world better. They make all of us better. My son has a very, very, very strong one wing, so I'm very familiar with that energy and I also know the dark side of it as well. But when I met her.

I don't know what it was. I mean, she's got a strong history in network marketing, which she has since left, which is a great story as well. Since I've known her, she started a podcast, which was never on her radar to begin with. And it is expl.

She has probably one of the strongest converting audiences I've ever come across. And I've been on some millions of downloads, kind of podcasts that didn't convert even remotely like hers does. And it's less than a year old. When Jill speaks, people listen. And because of her integrity, people trust what she says.

So my dear friend Jill has been on a kind of hiatus from social media for a little bit. And you said you're going to take six months. Is that what you're doing?

Yeah, six full months.

And for somebody that has very strong opinions and has a very strong voice, I can imagine at first it felt very uncomfortable, but we've just been sitting shooting the shit here for about 45 minutes and it's been beautiful to watch her just, even the last hour or so, just embrace whatever divine appointments are coming her way. And there's been a lot since she took that hiatus. Her podcast is going strong. If you don't listen to it, it's called Be you go find it on itunes. You will not be sorry. I don't pump a lot of people's shit, but Jill, I will pump all day long. That speaks to her integrity, her heart, and her willingness to just grow. And I know that I can be very difficult sometimes to work with because I do challenge people, and I do call a spade a spade, and I do see right through a lot of stuff. And what I loved most about her is she was like, bring it. I'm ready. I know that I've met you for a reason and more than just doing some work together, we will be friends for life. I do feel that. And I don't. I'm an eight. I don't say that lightly. But I do feel that, Jill, you will be a friend for life. So welcome to the show. I'm so glad you're here.

Oh, gosh. I think they heard me giggling a little bit through that. Thank you so much. Hello to everybody and Tracy. Oh, gosh. I mean, I could talk for an hour about what I love about you, but I just want to say, you know, your line, if you spot it, you got it right? So I'll say that to you. Um, but I. You know, I'm so grateful that I came across you. It. I don't believe that anything happens by coincidence. And I always follow my heart. And I actually was triggered by you.

Right.

In a form of intimidation. I felt intimidated by you. I didn't feel like I was, you know, at your level. And, you know, the business you built in, network marketing and your success online. I was excited that when you said on Facebook several months ago, I have to have you on the podcast. And it was. It was like, oprah call. I was like, oh, my God. Tracy o' Neill just said I could be on her podcast. And the good. The great thing is that I know you're not surprised that today, though, I get it. And I see why you asked me, and I can receive that and say thank you for that. So I am just thrilled to be here. Excited, A little nervous, to tell you the truth, but in a good way.

You know what's funny about that, you guys, is we had scheduled to do this months ago, and for whatever reason, it fell through the cracks. Some shit didn't land on our calendars, which is not like either one of us. And I know why. Because we were meant to talk today about whatever we're going to talk about today.

Well, let me just interject. Tracy is being very gracious. Shit didn't land on our calendars, you guys. I stood her up three times in a row. I mean, I've never been. I was so humiliated by my own actions and so embarrassed. She had to Talk me off the ledge. She's like, jill, you're still a good person. It's okay. I didn't know how it even happened. And I agree with you, it wasn't meant to be, because I am not the same person today as I was then. And although I'm excited and a little nervous to be on this amazing podcast, I do, as I said, feel confident now in being here. And before, I think I would have just been a message.

Oh, my gosh. Like, the minute I met you, I knew I wanted to interview you. And that just goes to show you what a one can do with their own thoughts, because they are motivated by the need to be good and right. And for a one to miss something in their calendar is so out of character. But it was the divine gods working for sure. And it's a true testament to my growth, too, because in the past, like, five years ago, be like, well, fuck you, then. You don't think I'm important enough?

No kidding.

Like, I would have been so in my ego and. And I trust the divine timing for pretty much everything. And. And like I said, I knew you're going to be my friend anyway for life. So, like, let's let the gods do what the gods do with this and bring it. Bring it to a head when it's supposed to. And so it was easy to be gracious because, A, shit happens, and B, I knew the timing wasn't supposed to happen then, so. So when I met you and we were doing the typing and the mastermind, and I said, I don't think you're an 8, I believe you're a 1, what was your first thought about that? Because people do fight me on their type.

Well, the interesting thing is I was the only one in the mastermind who didn't know anything about the Enneagram. I had heard the word, I knew there was buzz around it, and everyone told me I was an 8, but I really didn't know what it meant. I didn't know anything about the Enneagram. So when I read the description of the eight, I actually thought to myself, that is me. But it's not. I actually thought I was. If there were a thing, I thought I was 50% to 50% 8, because I can be very codependent. Love, serving, helping. I want to rescue the world. So that's what I thought I was. And so when I told you, you know, it's interesting that you're saying I'm a one, because everybody tells me I'm an eight, and I really Trusted you as the expert. I mean, you were so confident, and you said. And you could share with your audience. You said there were a few things that I had to ask you to clarify, and then it was obvious that you weren't.

Mm. And, you know, I think, well, eights are the most mistyped, quite honestly, because of that intensity. Like, just because you're intense doesn't make you an eight, Right? And you did have that. My God. And we. We're going to talk about the masculine energy versus the feminine energy. And when women specifically are in that masculine energy, quite honestly, a lot of times they'll type as a 1, 3, 8, or 6 a lot of the time. Sometimes even sevens, you know, just because the more aggressive types. But at the. That was just a wall for this vulnerability of not being good enough or not feeling like she fit in. I mean, just the fact that she had thrown me up on a pedestal that she didn't think she could touch early on speaks volumes of that. Eights don't put fucking anybody on a pedestal. Nobody. And, you know, things like that. But because of. Not just that, protecting your goodness, your rightness, your righteousness, but also with some of the history you have in your life, it makes perfect sense why that masculine, strong, intense, protective energy comes out to play. So when you were learning about the One, what were the things you loved hearing about the One? And what were the things that maybe you didn't love so much about the One?

Well, okay, so when I read the. I would call it the profile, okay, for the One, it was exciting to me, and I recommended anyone do this because, as I've told Tracy and I've told my friends, I had taken multiple personality tests, and the enneagram is very different. And I felt like for the first time, I understood myself truly. Like I, you know, as a one. Those of you out there who may not know this, Tracy's the expert, so she can explain why. But we will look at, you know, even the profile and find the mistakes first. Like, I knew I was a fuck up. Look at me, right? That's the first thing I did is I went to the negative, right, the negative. And they're not even negative, but I. So I didn't like the. Oh, gosh, I can't remember. I think the controlling piece, I didn't like. The whole, you know, like the warden, I didn't like. But the truth is, I knew it was true, because I'm called that. And I know that's how I show up in my own family. I know that's how I show up. Always. I'm the one making sure the rules are followed, et cetera. But yet it's funny because I have this very rebellious, fluid part of me, too. But that, as you said, that wasn't showing up in my life at all. The parts of the profile that I liked. Oh, gosh. See, look, it's hard for me to even tell you. It's hard for me to tell you.

Typical one. That is a typical one.

And I'm not kidding. I'm sitting here thinking, I don't know, what is it about me that I like that is typical of a one? I don't know. Give me a few of the traits.

The integrity in which you operate.

Yes.

The conviction you have when you believe in something or people or places or things. The ability to make people better because of the standards in which you operate. You make people level up.

Yes. When I read that. Thank you. So when I read that, it did make me understand why I feel very called to help the world, like make things better, you know, and even as a child, I felt that way. Some of it an unhealthy rescue. Right. And some of it isn't right. But, yeah. That I am proud of that. And I did. I do remember reading that and thinking, okay, she really sees me. Like, this is really who I am. And when I saw the pieces that I wasn't so excited about, you know, my first question is, okay, so how do I do less of that? Like, I don't want anyone to know that I'm a control freak. I don't want anyone to know that I want everything to be perfect. And then I want everybody to behave and I want everything a certain way. I don't like that about me. And I'm afraid to say it out loud because it doesn't sound good, but the truth is, that is me. The part that surprised me, I was telling you that I'm not the person who, like, maps out my day, like, this hour I do this, this hour I do that. And I know those people. I say they're type A. And I've always said I'm not type A. But the truth is, and I know you helped me realize this, I. That in my head, I do it. So I may not have, like, the Excel spreadsheet, I may say I'm allergic to that, and I'm just more fly by the seat of my pants. But the truth is, in my head, I'm beating myself up for being that way and for not having it spelled out right.

And I'm the same way, like you will not put me in a morning routine. I will not be contained. But there are things that you know for sure. I do have like this kind of checklist. So I've said this before that you know, every type has a superpower and yours is the high standard, the high integrity in which you operate. Like thankfully, you guys really do make us improve and level up and you do always have eyes that see how we can improve things. Right? And that same superpower can also be a wrecking ball, right? For an 8, that intensity is my superpower because people feel safe, protected, seen. Like if shit goes sideways, Omali's got it, like that's a superpower. But when I'm coming from a not so healthy place or I'm in the dark side, that intensity is like a wrecking ball and will bulldoze anything. So for a one, you know that high standard, high integrity, like you said, when you're, when the come from is coming from fear, anxiety, worry, ego, shame or guilt that can mimic major controlling, right? When it's coming from empathy, compassion, love, certainty, the divine, then that same high standard, high integrity is a superpower world changing move. And so that's the beauty in this is when we recognize when we're going to the dark side of it a little bit. And I think I've said this to you, but if I haven't, I really want you to hear this, especially today is it doesn't mean we don't like that part of us. It just means we're really under stress. There's something that is triggering that little part of you that feels like she doesn't have control or she's got to protect at all costs or, or she might be found out that maybe she's got a flaw. Right. And so we can use this as a compass instead of a whipping stick. So have you noticed that shift happening for you in understanding this part about you?

Yes, yes, I've noticed it in two major areas. So the first is with my parenting. My kids are 22 down to 16. Three I gave birth to and two, I was gifted in a marriage. So we have 22, 21, 19, 18 and 16 and a one year old baby in the house. And I didn't realize this when I was raising my kids. It wasn't until looking back, but even just a couple of years ago. Traci, I have a theory and I can't prove that it's true, but I believe that we raise a team in any kind of business the way we raise Our kids, we mentor them the way we do. Right. I made a connection a couple years ago that when I improved my, my, the way I showed up as a parent, which was less of the whipping stick right. On them. Right. Which is really a reflection of my own, on myself. Right. I also noticed I was showing up better with my team back when I was in business. And I didn't know that people saw me that way because I was so, so, so committed to making things better. And I knew it came from what I thought was a good place. That doesn't mean it came from a healthy place, but I thought it came from a good place, so I justified it.

So.

So the way I've seen a difference is with my kids and in my former business, I've been out, as you know, since July, but even a few months before that I noticed a difference that when I would look at a person or an. Or a situation, I wouldn't first see the negative when before. I not only would just first see the quote unquote negative, but I thought that was the right thing to do because I'm like, well, of course, you know, you're loved. Of course, you know you're great. Let's just like not even wasting time talking about that. Let me talk to you about what we can fix. And I would do that with women in my organization and in my business. You know, I would go straight to what we're going to fix. And it made everyone feel wrong all the time and it made them feel like they were never doing enough. What they didn't know is that inside I thought they were amazing and I loved them. And I. But I wasn't saying that. I wasn't expressing that. And I noticed a big shift. My kids have noticed a shift in me. And before we started recording, I told you, I said, I need to be transparent. I really haven't done the work, really to integrate this enneagram stuff. And you said, well, you have to have integrated it somehow because it's showing up like I am different. You know, the fact that this, this year, coming into this new year of 2021, you know, no one has to. But I do like to pick a word for the year. I don't do New Year's resolutions. But the words that came to me were joy and fun. And I'm allergic to joy and fun.

Yeah, they're like, that's like kryptonite. They're like, no, thank you.

Who has time for that shit? Like, I'm sorry, you know, like, I'm really Funny. And my whole life, like, I actually used to do impersonations of family members for entertainment, you know, And I've done that many times with friends, like around bonfires or whatever. I can imitate people almost to the T. Right. However. Right. I'm funny. But the truth is, I, until literally 2021, deciding I was going to never had fun. Now it's not like I can't have fun. Like, if we're all out and it happens, it happens. But I am always thinking. I don't know if anyone else can relate to this, but I am always thinking about what I need to be doing, improving, or worrying about. Like, there's always a heaviness. There's always something in the back of my mind that will keep me from truly letting go and having fun. So that's a big way. I've noticed it just in life in general. And when I message you and said, I'm seeking joy and fun, you're like, thank God. You know, but if you had told me that I wasn't that way, I wouldn't have believed you. Because, you know, the uptight, boring people that, you know, I don't have a schedule. I'm like, that's not me. But what it is is. It's this internal war in my head. Like, this internal. Just like, not enough. Not doing enough, should be doing more, you know? And it's. It's very difficult to explain because it's not conscious and it's not something I can really put in words to, but it's this overwhelming feeling of. I. You know, I read a book. One of my favorite books is Glennon Doyle's book Untamed. And I don't know if it was that book or one of her previous books. I've read all of them. But when her. Her partner Abby was laying on the couc, and she was like, there she is again, relaxing at me. Yes. I swear on my life, she did not invent that sentence because I said the same thing I literally said to my husband. No, no, no. In my head at my husband. Just look at him laying there as if there's nothing to do. Kicking up his feet, closing his eyes to rest his eyes. He's not resting his eyes. First of all, let's freaking be honest. You're taking a nap. Just own it and be straight that you're taking. Don't tell me you're resting your eyes. Tell me you're taking a nap. Own it. Right? Nothing wrong with taking a nap. But there is to a one.

Yeah. Because you could be improving shit. Yes.

And here's a guy that's so successful and just so much even around our house, we live out in the countries on the tractor. The dude should be able to take a five hour nap if he wants to. But, oh, here's me shuffling things around, you know. Oh, did you fall asleep?

You know what's funny about that is, you know, I had, you know, and why I love the Enneagram and it serves as a roadmap is because although that's really hard for A one to loosen up, have some joy, have some fun, because in your mind, if you're doing that, how can you possibly be improving shit if you're in joy and fun and relaxed, right? And for the same thing for me as an eight, if I am having fun or free, I could be violated or betrayed. And so, you know, certain types, when I see them lean into that, like myself, like you, like, that's how we grow. And for A one, I focus not necessarily on our basic type, but our growth number as a leader in my home, in business, as a coach, I focus more on the growth number because it's the bigger stretch. It's the, the thing we resist the most. It's the thing that makes us so fucking uncomfortable. But it's the thing that will have us step into the calling that's on our life. And for you, my love, it is that not just joy and fun of the enthusiast, but the visionary, the innovator, the nothing is off the table thinking like you don't have to have the whole thing figured out and you don't even care that people may not like you, like you stepping into that, which I've seen you do over and over this year. Like I am over here just going, yeah, there she goes, there she goes. And I love seeing that in one because quite honestly, I'm going to be really transparent ones I have the hardest time with typically, because you are so rigid and when you're not in the best spot. And it's really hard for me to control people in the past when they were so rigid. Right. And I've got a family member of mine that's one that is the unhealthiest one I've ever met. So I get that. Okay, so you said parenting, it's really made a big impact. What's the other area that it's made a huge impact other than your former team?

Oh, yeah. So it's interesting. So if I didn't even plan to talk about this, but I do think me leaving that Business would be a great conversation because I learned in that process the healthy and unhealthy way to be the reformer, to be the woman who's going to lead the charge. Because I've never been afraid of that. Right. But I never was willing to look at, or I didn't even know to look at the collateral damage of that. If you're not doing it from a healthy place. Right. I thought it was from a noble place. So that has to be healthy. And I don't think that's true. Right. You can be coming from a very noble place and it's still not healthy. It's not necessarily healthy. So every job I had, I was a registered nurse for years and a couple of different jobs I had. There were things that were going on in the hospital that just weren't okay. I'll just say they weren't okay. Every nurse complained about it, but no one was doing anything. And at my very first job as a nurse, by the way, I went to nursing school when my first child was three months old. And I. So I was a brand new nurse and pregnant with my second and had an almost three year old. And I went to, of course, the hardest department you could go to, which is the neonatal intensive care. I'm like, I think I'll just start there. So I started working there and there were things going on that none of the nurses were happy about. They were just wrong because, you know, I see everything is right or wrong. And I was looking around and I'm like, how long have you been here? 24 years, 14 years, 17 years. I'm like, wait, how long has this been happening?

24 years. I'm like, f this.

And so I'm like, okay, we're going to strike. They're like, we're going to what? I'm like, we are striking. And so I'm like organizing a strike. I didn't even know.

How to strike, didn't even know what that meant. But I was like, this is bullshit. They're making us stay an extra eight hours. An extra eight hours with no time and a half. And you don't get a choice. If you don't do it, you get fired. How is that okay? It's totally unsafe. We're taking care of babies, etc. So everybody agreed with me. But when it came time and the pressure from the big wigs at the hospital came, I'm the only one standing, right? Everybody collapsed and caved and they did pressure us.

Then the second job that I had as a nurse is Actually, way better. But they were having us take on nursing students on a very busy cardiac floor. And so I won't give you too many details because of time, but this is important. So they were having us as a nurse. I have three or four patients to take care of. That's already too much and a lot. But then I have nursing student Sally, who isn't even within eye shot or earshot of me, and she has four patients, which I'm responsible for. Completely unsafe. Just because the hospital wanted to save money. That was wrong, right? Because I see everything is running. I'm like, everybody agreed with me. I went around. I'm like, who thinks this is safe? Nobody does. Why are we doing nothing about it? So I was totally the norm array. If you're too young to know who that is, I'm Joan Mark. I'm the one that's like, we are fighting against this. They need us. The hospital can't work without us. Are you kidding me? But nobody saw that. It was interesting because I was like, you do understand that even though the doctors are quote, unquote, in charge and the hospital is run by administrators, they can't operate this. This machine without us. We are the heartbeat We. And I'm like, I'm not getting them amped up. They're like, yeah, yeah. What do you think happened? Absolutely nothing happened. Because when push came to shove, they were not willing to. So I was always finding different jobs that I could do, which allowed myself to have the autonomy I needed without having that big, heavy doom and gloom as I saw it, cloud of the forces that be that are in charge. Right? So I did a lot of cool things. And that's when I got into network marketing. This is a long way of saying to you, this is beautiful. That the way I fought for change was aggressive, which can't. It doesn't. That doesn't mean it's bad. But it was abrasive, and it was coming from right. I still was a wounded little girl who didn't think I was good enough. So I had this powerful force that God's given me that a lot of women do tell me they admire. But it came with, like, nails, like, I'm spitting nails when I don't even know I am. And I truly didn't know I was Tracy. I didn't know. That's why maybe some of the people weren't willing to stand behind me. It wasn't just their own fear, which a lot of them, it was. But some of them, they were probably like, okay, this is A little too much. Like, do you really need to take everybody down? So I didn't learn the lesson, and I went off and did other things. I built a successful network marketing business over the course of 13 years. Okay, so just in the past two years, so this isn't too long ago, what do you think happened again?

Right.

We know the same lesson keeps coming back. I started seeing things. The company was purchased by an equity group, and everything started changing. The heartbeat that we were so proud of was becoming so faint, I could not feel the pulse.

Right.

And some people say everybody agrees with me because they want to be heard. Truly, everybody.

This is such a pivotal conversation we had, I think.

Yeah. Oh, I remember where I was standing when we had the conversation. And so the all, I was in the top, whatever, 1/2% of the company, and all of my colleagues in that position were seeing the same things. And as we were talking about it, I was leading the charge. But this time it was healthier. Even though I hadn't met Traci yet and I had not, I had done enough personal development, I had grown up. Right. So it's interesting. It's like before, it was like, each time it got better. With this time, I was much better than I had been in the past. And it was really, let's create change. I don't want to create a problem. Let's go with to the people in charge and say, how can we work together, not screw you, we're picketing, but like, how can we make it better?

Right?

And so a lot of people were listening and agreeing. The problem is it didn't land well with the company. And, you know, they didn't like that. A lot of people listened to me. They didn't like that. A lot of people trusted, truly trusted me because in that community, it's hard for me to take compliments. But the more I work on myself, the easier it is. And you know that's true. The more confident you become and who you truly are, you're able to receive compliments. And when you said to me that people listen to me because the integrity of my voice. That is true. And I will receive that because I've heard that from hundreds of people in that network marketing company saying, the reason we are following you is because you were the one who stood up on the stage and didn't try to act fancy. You're the one who stood up on the stage and said, I'm a hot mess. I literally just ironed my dress two minutes ago, and I don't even know What I'm going to say, they loved that about me, so they knew I would always keep it real. I may not be the best of the best, but I would always be straight with them. So how did I see this transform, as you asked? Well, when I was having these conversations about change, I am very proud of the way I did it. It was much better. Yet today, this second, I would have done it even better. Like, even different. I know that's very one of me. I would have done it better, but I would have done it a little different because I still learned another lesson. And here's what I learned. Everything I said was correct, everything I said was true. Everything I said truly came from a noble place of wanting to help and not like in the past. It came from a healthier place, right? Yet the thing that I did that was my downfall is I spoke for all of these women who were not willing to speak for themselves because I was rescuing them. And they'd say, you do it, Jill. You do it, Jill. Picture someone just pushing someone in the front of the line, and I'm like, sure, sure. And then I literally got hanged. I mean, they fired me. I had one of the most successful businesses in the company. I was a, quote, darling of the company.

And they canned me. And as I look back, I realized, Tracy, that today I would have said, hey, Judy, stick up for yourself. Like, you need to put your boat girl panties on. And you complain. Because we all see the problems, and clearly they're not going to change. I'm not going to be your voice. And so this is where you can coach me. Because I don't know what that was showing up, but something.

After, maybe it was the crash of being fired. The ego burn of that. It was so painful, you know, that. I mean, it just. Also, the way they did it was just heartless. It was heartless, but the way they did it and the ego, not bruised, but, like, it was like, killed my ego.

That's when I looked back and I thought to myself, how could I have done this differently? How could I have maybe done this in a way that didn't cause me so much pain? How did I cause this? Because I was so ready to blame them for everything. And I, as I said, I caused it by being the voice for everybody and not letting other women decide whether or not they were willing to speak. And, of course, I got fired.

Right? You know, I see this a lot of times, not just through ones, but in general. Like, we, like, like you said, it was coming from the right, good, noble place. And it was also coming from a broken little girl, part of you that wants to rescue and. And help people. And what I. And I used to be. I mean, I've been known as the rock my whole life. Like, you're the warden, I'm the fucking rock. Like, I wore that like a badge of honor. Like, you want me to go in fighting, I'm your girl. Like, give me the gloves because it. I'll go barehanded. I'll just do it. And that comes from a place of ego or fear.

And, you know, the. The thing that you leaned into a little bit too. And this is a beautiful gift as a one like, you have no problem leaning into that too. Compassionate, empathetic, almost codependent spot. Like, I think that's an easier move for you. But what I've seen you do over the last year specifically.

Is tap into this instinct of the nine, which is your other wing, the Yoda. Like, this is where the discernment of, okay, what's the bigger picture here? Because you're right, wrong. Your one tools. You could do those in your sleep. Like, you know what's right and wrong. You know how, like, you'll be convicted in something and you'll go for it. But the beautiful gift of having a nine wing is the discernment factor is like, is this really mine to fight?

Yeah.

What is the bigger picture of this? And I've seen you really use that Yoda, and so have I, and not the codependent way. Because you know, that peacemaker can be very unhealthy as well. Right? We just take one for the team. Take one for the team. Because you kind of did that a little bit too. I did as a child in my home growing up. I was in the unhealthy nine in my house a lot, being the peacemaker. But the. My secret sauce, like that intensity is always going to be there as an eight. You know, the going in hot will always be there as an 8. You're right and wrong. The warden, the improver will always be there. But where you and I really shine is when we lean into that nine.

Yes. That makes so much sense. And while I was making the observations of what was not in integrity with the culture and the company and what I was observing.

It'S interesting because it was what was bothering me the most, Tracy, wasn't that it was happening. It's that no one was willing to fucking say it.

Right?

I'm just like, just say it. Can you just tell us we're not crazy? And I Know, some of that, too, is my childhood stuff, like, can we just talk about what's happening instead of pretending everything's fine? I'm pretty sure I saw plates flying across my kitchen last night. My dad's nose is bleeding. I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure, you know? And so when you said, take one for the team, it's interesting because I sound so feisty. People are probably like, take one for the team. I'll tell you.

Right.

I wanted to leave two years earlier. I know I couldn't get myself to do it. And I even talked to you about wanting to leave, and I had valid reasons.

Mm. Well, the other beautiful part, the other beautiful part about when we really lean into that nine is we realize that's where the nine steps in from you being an enabler. And, you know, it's hard as a parent leading in your home. It's hard as a leader of thousands and thousands of people to see the bigger picture, see the mistake that's about to happen for somebody and let them make it, because that's the only way they learn. As a mom, as a coach, as a leader, as a partner, it's not our job to play God. And you and I both know when we connect the dots and look back, we've both got close to 50 years under our belt here. You and I both have the proof that when we look back and connect the dots, some of our biggest mistakes, including the one that maybe you would have handled differently, it turned into the greatest gift that you got canned 100%. But we can look back and see some of our maybe not so great decisions or the way that we made them, or the timing of them, or even the awful, heinous things that have happened to us in our homes, in our life, that those very things have made us the amazing women we are today. And so if we start that enabling, we're robbing people of their own process. And that nine wing that I use and you use today, as a mom, as a leader, as a wife, as a partner, as a friend.

We can guide them without enabling. And that's where you are today. You really, really are.

And to be transparent, because, you know, I always will. I am there today in every area except my parenting. I'm almost there. Like, I just yesterday, truly. It's funny how there are no coincidences. Just yesterday, I was like, I'm proud of myself because I observed something with one of my children, and I'm like, I'm not saying anything. Not my circus. Now that's I'm telling you, I would get in that hole and roll around in that mud. And I mean, it was my obligation and my duty. And I remember, I can't tell you when it was, but my third child, again, I have five, but three I gave birth to. So my third birth child, George, who is only 16 and is going through a lot of really difficult stuff right now, as you know. And he said to me, mom.

When are you going to realize that when you pull back.

It goes back to zero? Anyway.

I just could cry thinking about that because I'm trying to keep him out of the pits of depression and I am trying so hard. And he was saying to me, which I think was God saying to me, let go. You can't change this for me. Be here for me and stand by me, but you can't. And I know to anyone listening, they're like, okay, that's so obvious. Like, how did you not get that?

It's really easy to say when you're not in it.

Yeah, it was so integrated into my DNA that I don't know how to not enable and rescue. So the nine that you're talking about had shown up in a lot of areas, but I wouldn't freaking let it go. When it came to my kids, I'm like, nope, I will keep rescuing. And just recently I realized, truly, I'm realizing as I'm speaking, I had a friend, I call her Yoda, who says, I don't know what I think till I hear myself speak. Love that. So as I'm speaking right now, live, I am actually making a connection. So thank you for that. I'm realizing that it was me getting to the point of exhaustion emotionally and physically. I mean, I've had six months of hell, as you know. I mean, if I, if I listed to all the listeners right now, what's happened in six months, you'd be like, you've got to be kidding me. But, but it was me becoming so physically, emotionally, every way exhausted to finally. It's like I'm trying so hard. I finally just let go and said, I realize now that I never had control anyway. And again, it's such a basic principle that is on every bumper sticker and every T shirt. But I had to feel it and live through the last six months and get this exhausted to finally say, even the baby's not my responsibility. My little one year old grandchild. I can't keep holding everybody up. I can't.

You know, it's, it's interesting because, you know, especially for a one A lot of time. And I see this a lot, a lot of times in the parenting. The reason why it's even harder to let go, the controlling, the enabling, especially with the background you have, it makes a lot of sense. And there's another component as a one is you want your kids to be a certain way because it's a reflection on you as a mom. And if they're a shit show, then what does that make you?

Yes. Yes.

And you come by it so innocently. It's such a subconscious thing. But when you wreck and same here, I mean, I was a do as I say, not as I do parent. Right. Because that's what I grew up with. So of course I'm going to repeat that. And the minute, like I can see the car crash, so to speak, about to happen, you know, I turned my shit around. One of my kids were about 14, thank God, because that's such a pivotal moment. So, like, it's. It's great that you are who you are right now for George at 16, like, like, it's not an accident that this is all happening right now with you the way you are right now. It's perfect that the credibility and trust that I trust them. I've. You've raised your kids right. I've raised my kids right. Even when I was a shit show.

That they knew I had the wisdom. And in, in the past I would enable, intervene, control, do whatever, get angry, blow shit up. But they knew that I trusted them, that even if they made a mistake, they would learn from it. And that I was here. And what that did with me, like loosening the reins, not like it being a free for all. Yeah, no, I mean, we have discipline, we have work ethic, we have rules. We have consideration of the team here. But I do trust that every choice you make has a consequence good and not so good. And if you make them and it's not so good, like, there will be accountability. But I'm not gonna like bring you through, rake you through the coals for it. And we're gonna have a learning lesson. And what that did was open up the communication completely. Yeah. Not only that, when I let my kids see, and this is really important for you too, and I know you've done this and this for any parent out there, mom or dad, that we think we're protecting our kids, when they see this strong, stoic parent or the I got this parent or nothing rattles me parent, or.

That you and I both know, like you said, we grew up in households where nobody was Talking about the shit show that was happening. Right. And what that does when we put on this front, even for our kids, that nothing's wrong. Like we're fighting behind the doors, but we think we don't know, or we're carrying an energy where we're just roommates or financially there's a crisis, but nobody's talking about it. Like, the energy never lies. And when I started inviting my kids into my own emotional process, it doesn't mean burdening them with it, but like, hey, my heart's hurting right now. And when the first time they really saw me cry, it was the game changer. Yeah. It's like, this is hurting my heart. We're going to be okay. I don't know how, but I know why. Because what happens is, especially when we grow up with stuff and nobody's talking about it, we don't judge that. We judge ourselves. Like, there must be something wrong with me that I'm feeling all this and nobody's talking about it, so it must be something I shouldn't be feeling for sure.

And I don't know if any of the moms listening can relate to this, but when you talked about, you know, what the kids do or don't do reflects on us, I would tell you if I was, but I'm actually not the mom. I don't worried about what people think. But I will tell you this. I worry what I think of myself. So my ex is an addict and I didn't see the damage it caused my children. Of course, let me be clear, didn't never went into recovery. We never chose recovery. And it's, it's, it's, it. As you know better than anybody, I don't judge him for that. However, it caused just so much damage to my children's hearts, the abandonment, etc. But that damage didn't show up until this past year. Believe it or not, I didn't see it. It was there, but I didn't see it. And so my feeling is, oh my God, I have to fix this. Because if I don't fix this, what does that say about me as a mother that I allowed this to happen all these years and didn't even know it? Now I've done enough work, right, to know that I did do a great job and I did the best I could, etc. But I know there are moms that can relate to that. I know there are. Where I just, I think that I can't send them off into the world like this because that means I didn't do a good job, and I have to try to clean up the mess that he created with them. And you get to the point where you realize it's impossible and it's exhausting. And if you don't work on this, what will happen is, you know, they say leaky energy. People have leaky energy. What I found myself doing just a week or two ago, I'm being very raw and real on this podcast. I don't know any of you listening, but I'm telling you that. I'm telling you things that my friends don't even know. That just last week, you know, my youngest is truly struggling with depression. They're calling it grief depression. His dad abandoned them about a year ago, and he's had a lot of struggles. And.

I yelled at him. And I don't mean do your homework. I'm talking. You yell and you scare the shit out of them. Yell. Ok, this is the stuff I used to do when they were little. And then I stopped doing it for years because I became healthier, I thought, but if you don't really fix it, it'll come out. And what happened was I yelled to him and I said, I cannot take this anymore. I can't take this anymore. But I'm screaming. And I didn't know until the next day that what my Hunt son heard was, well, if I would commit suicide, it would be better because I'm a burden to everybody, right? And what I was saying is, I can't. I didn't know it. I know now. I was saying I can't keep rescuing. I can't keep trying to fix because it's impossible. And the truth is, it is impossible, right? I need to stand there as a strong, healthy parent and not as I'm going to, you know, save you from every pain, because it's impossible.

God, I could cry, thinking back 10 years ago, like that kind of stuff, like, we don't realize.

The ears that are listening and how they interpret what we say. And I just applaud you as a mom, as a wife, as a leader, as my friend.

To just own all of this. And George will be more than okay with you leading the way. I have no doubt about it. It's not easy being a parent is so hard because we have to watch them struggle. There's no way. And honestly, you and I, my biggest struggle as a child is what makes me who I am. That's why I am the person I am today, leading the way that I lead. And if somebody had kind of came in and made that easier. What we're seeing out of me today doesn't happen. And what we see out of you doesn't happen. And this is when the divine trust in something bigger than ourselves is protecting our kids. But they do have free will, and, you know, what they choose to do with whatever thing comes their way is the hardest part about parenting, you know? Yeah. So what would you say, other than what you did about working with me? Why do you think the person listening right now should either, at the very least, get typed properly and understand themselves so they can integrate this into their life? What would you say is the number one reason why somebody should do it?

Oh, gosh, let me just say this. I'm going to take it, and I'm going to want it. I'm not going to. I'm not going to get. I'm not going to answer it the way you asked me. All right, answer that. Tracy knows that I have excitedly and enthusiastically recommended her to so many people. She doesn't need the business. She doesn't need the clients. I've done it because I. So at first, it was just a gut thing. Honestly, I just felt safe with you. I knew you were the real deal. I knew you knew what you were doing, and I thought it would be a good idea. The truth is, then one of my referrals came back to me and said, this is changing my life. It's fundamentally changing me. And I just had dinner the other night with my friend Amy. Highly successful architect, not a lot of female architects, commercial architect, amazing relationship with their spouse, amazing relationship with their children. Physically fit, healthy, happy, like she's got it all right. And she's one of those people who doesn't quote, unquote, need to get her enneagram type done properly and doesn't quote, unquote, need to work with Tracy o'. Malley. And she's doing it and spending the time and the money to do it because she's seeing that it's unlocking parts of her that she didn't even know existed. And it's unlocking parts of her that are showing up in her business that she didn't even know existed. And now, as you know, clearly, she has her business partner on board. And so what I would say to everyone listening is the only thing that stops people from making a commitment like this are the two reasons they probably should do it. Time and money. I don't have time to talk to Tracy. I just want to listen to her podcast. I don't have time to go into myself and all that And I also either don't have the money or I don't want to spend the money. Well, those are the two reasons I believe. They're not the big gifts that are going to come out of it, but they're the two reasons you should do it. Because if you feel that you can't take the time to invest in yourself and take a good look at yourself, that is a problem. This is the me, the one judging you. I'm judging you right now. I'm judging the shit out of you. If you can't take the time, you can go to Starbucks, you can go do all these other things. And you can't take the time, but you can watch housewives to seriously take a good look in yourself. One, there's a problem, but I'm going to tell you why I think it is. I think it's because you're afraid of what you're going to find. I don't think it's because you don't have time. I don't think it's that you don't. Blah, blah, blah. I think you are afraid of what she might reveal to you. And I am telling you that she is going to reveal things to you that might be hard to see. But you can't see all the gifts and the magic and the beautiful parts that you're going to celebrate if you don't look at all of it. And that's the biggest reason, which I guess I did answer the question. That's the biggest reason to do it, because you will see things that you can't see and that even other people see, but they can't get you to see or they don't see. But then you're going to see, like, these gifts about yourself that make you so much more confident, like, wow. So the thing that annoys the crap out of people is actually also a gift. I should be proud of that. I didn't realize that. Or if I make these tweaks, I could change it from unhealthy to super powerful. So for me, just the conversations I've had with Tracy about how I am and how I show up. So I left that business and then decided to do a podcast when I didn't even know what podcasts were, other than, like two or three I had listened to a couple times. And.

While I'm sort of like launching that, it's only four months old, right? It's the most important time you should be on social media. You should be hustling. You should get out there. And I'm Good at that. I mean, you give me a job, and I will work you to death. I will outwork anybody, right? So I'm on my story, and I'm doing this and doing that, and it's working, right?

It's more than working. Let's just call it what it is.

This whisper was telling me to get off of social media. This is still an answer to that question. The reason you should work with Tracy is because you will be able to then listen to that whisper. Because the whisper that no one understood, including me, and everybody said was stupid, dumb, crazy, reckless. Jill, you're launching a podcast, and it is starting to go like you're in the top 5%. You are like, I know you don't think you know what you're doing, but somehow people are listening. 35 countries, it's going. And I said, I don't care. I am going to do the opposite of what a one would do.

Yoda's in the house, baby. Yoda's in the house.

That's right, baby. And I'm going to get off of social media for six months, months, having no idea what that means. I'm just going to listen to that inner wisdom, and I'm just going to chill. And if it's meant to be, it will happen. If it's not meant to be, then it won't. And it's interesting because it's been the best decision I ever made, and I made that decision from that place. The same woman who said, January 1, 2021, I'm seeking joy and fun. That's the woman who was able to say, I don't care if you understand it, I am actually walking away. And I don't care if people forget about me. I mean, think about that, Traci. To not care if people forget about me is not the me you met. And I wasn't saying it to sound good. I truly thought to myself, if people forget who I am for six months or longer, or they never listen to the podcast, or I fall off the face of the earth, it's okay, because I'm not meant to be there. And it. It feels so good, I'll kind of sneak back on sometimes. And I scroll and I do two swipes, and I'm like, I'm back. I'm done. And I realize I'm not that it's bad. It's a wonderful world. I'm right now not meant to be there. And when you do this work, you will be able to tune into that voice. And that's the only Voice that fucking matters. That's the only voice that matters. Tracy's voice doesn't even matter anymore. I love her and respect her and I want her coaching, but she will tell me that, too. At the end of the day, my inner voice, which I personally believe is God, is the only voice that matters. And if that voice tells me to sell everything and move to Africa, that's what I'm doing. Which, by the way, I'm not doing that right. So, yeah, that's why people should do it.

I love it. You've gone from Judge Jill to Chill Jill. I love it. Oh, my God.

I love it.

I love it. Oh, my gosh, you guys. Judge Jill to Chill Jill. That's, like, the goal of everyone. And you, my love, have achieved it and will continue to refine what that process looks like for you. Like, you are, and you're 100% right. Like, when you can hear the whispers of God or the divine or whatever you call it.

That'S where all this magic can happen. And I do highly recommend her podcast, one of the very few that I actually listen to. She tells it like it is. She's got so much wisdom. You guys go follow her. Where can they find. I know you're not on social media right now, but they're going to want to follow you because you're going to show up eventually one day. Possibly they can go look and read some of her old content. That's amazing. They can find the podcast stuff. Where can they find all things Jill while she's on a hiatus?

Thank you. Yes, I am on a hiatus, but there are two ways. One, my website is just Jill Herman dot com. Okay? So there you could. I've got a little ebook there that people are liking, but you can also see what's going on there to obviously the podcast be you, but. But the other way is I did just start a text community and I was, like, allergic to that before. I'm like, I'm not doing that. People are really liking it. I only send one or two texts a week max, and I'm getting really great feedback from the women. And so it's 260-217-4675. But if you want to just tune into the podcast, you know, I wouldn't have said this months ago, but I can confidently say it is really good. It really is. It's the real deal. And I don't try to impress anybody. And I'm not cookie cutter. It's not perfect, but we talk about some real stuff and people are really enjoying it. So I'd love to have you check that out.

Oh, it's so good. Give them the text number one more time because I am on that text list and I love getting those texts and they are fantastic.

Thank you.

Give him the number one more time.

260-217-4675 My friend, you are amazing.

I love you and I'm so grateful that you came into my life and you have made a huge impact on me too. Just so you know. And I know I've told you that before, but I really want you to receive it all fully today. You guys, she is the real deal and we need more of these voices in your head. Not all the fluffy airy fairy stuff, which it has its time and place. But if you're not feeling the needle move and you need some straight shoot and tell it like it is, with love and wisdom and the Yoda in us, then go follow her. Go listen to her podcast right now and share it and let her know how much you receive what she says. Not that she's ruled by that, but she deserves to know how much of an impact she's making when she doesn't even know it. So my friend, I love you so much. Thanks for being on.

Love you too. Thank you so much Tracy. And thanks to everyone who listened.

Thank you for tuning in to the Becoming Bulletproof podcast. If you learned a thing or two from our show today, it would mean a lot to me if you shared it and tagged me so I can hear exactly what landed on your heart. This will help me to bring you even more episodes with the topics and guests you want. Please head over to itunes and leave an honest and loving five star review. If this made an impact on you, you can find me on Instagram tracyomalley and I have tons of free resources for you@traceyomalley.com as always, if you are wanting to ignite your purpose, profits and build your legacy, it's time to stand on the front line of your life and do the work. Let's become Bulletproof.