38: How using the Enneagram transformed my family and parenting. (An Enneagram 8,7, and 2 all under one roof)

Foreign.

Welcome to the Becoming Bulletproof podcast. I am your host, Tracy o'. Malley. I'm a mom to millennials, an author, Enneagram expert and multi million dollar entrepreneur, and master performance and business coach. I've gone from rock bottom to building a bulletproof business and life. If you're looking for the unfiltered transparent truth and ethos an extra kick in the ass, you will discover that here. Each week I'll be bringing you success stories of high level entrepreneurs as we discover how they became bulletproof and created their empire. You'll learn the story behind the glory along with Enneagram inspired truths so you can ignite your own purpose, profits and build your legacy. It's time for you to become bulletproof. Buckle up. Let's go.

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Becoming Bulletproof podcast. And this episode is one of the most requested that I get all the time. And one of the most popular things I'm asked about all the time are my kids and the relationship that I have with them. And if you've followed me along for any length of time, you realize that short eight years ago, our life was very, very different. And they are the reason why I made a lot of the changes that I did in my life. I was recognizing the fact that they were repeating some of my patterns and not so healthy things. And you've heard me say it, if you don't repair it, you repeat it. And I wanted something better for them. And so eight years ago, close to it now, is when I really got my shit together and decided I needed to show them a different way. Because our kids, they'll do what we, not what we say to do. And even though I was saying one thing, I really wasn't doing what I wanted for them. And so when I kind of wiped my hard drive clean, I came home from rehab and I could tell that they weren't sure what they were going to get. I had a lot of empty promises in the past and I'm sure that they were kind of waiting for the other shoe to drop. And when I came home, it wasn't just like sunshine and rainbows and things like that. It was a hard time in our life. I was unemployed, I'd walked away from my career. I was in a shitty relationship that wasn't going anywhere except into the shitter. And I had a 14 and 15 year old at the time. And if you are a parent and especially one of teenagers, that many changes at one time, especially in their lives as teenagers, was not an easy task. And then here comes mom with a whole new toolbox that she's going to operate with. And I. I've told you the story about where I learned about the Enneagram. And it was from my therapist in rehab. On day two, she told me she wanted me to take the test. And I was like, yeah, no. And she goes, yeah, you're gonna. And this will help you get out of the box that you've put you in, that you've put yourself in and the world's put you in. And it was interesting as I looked at my type and was reading about my type and the not so healthy parts, like, you know, the aggressive, domineering, bully like qualities of my type, it became very apparent as I was reading that and even the healthy traits of the eight. The challenger that neither one of my children was an eight. And so I was faced with this dilemma. Like, I know how to speak to eights all day long, but that's not what's living in my house. And these are the people that mean the world to me. They mean everything to me. And so as I was working on myself and really understanding my own self awareness, I was also investigating the other eight types to try and figure out ballpark what my children were so I could speak a language that they could receive. You know, it's one of those things that I was raised in an environment where it was like, do as I say, not as I do. It was like my way or the highway. And so I kind of had to conform to that. And I didn't want that for my kids. I saw they both had very special, unique gifts that were very different from me. And even though I only knew one way to communicate, I didn't want to, you know, shove them in a box. But if I can't communicate with them, are they going to receive the love that's in my heart? And it was clear by the way things were going, they weren't receiving the message of love. And looking back, like, no kidding, I wasn't speaking their language. And so the Enneagram really helped me understand how to best and most effectively speak a language where they could receive every beautiful thing that was on my heart for them and also empower them to step into their gifts. Not Mama T's, but Casey and Joe, Joey's. And Casey, she is the main reason that I started learning the Enneagram. She is an enneagram 7. And Joey is a little bit more like me. We have something in common with our types. He's a two, the helper on the Enneagram, but she's the enthusiast, and I knew the second she was born that we were very, very, very different. Like, could not be more different. We have a lot of similar things, but as far as personality wise, we're very different. And, you know, I never wanted to squash this free sp that I gave birth to, But I had no idea even how she was functioning, quite honestly. And I know that the way that I communicated with her a lot of the times felt like judgment on her, and that was not at all in my heart. But I needed to figure out how to speak to her where she could feel that and know that I was like, hey, baby girl, you're a butterfly. Go fly, fly, fly. And be this crazy free spirit that I don't even understand. But damn, I love you just the same, and I will do my very best to pour love and greatness into you. And so she was the main reason that I knew I needed to get a handle on communication. And so Casey, my enneagram7, and Joey, my helper, welcome to the show. You got to lean in. You got to lean into the microphone. You know, we're learning here. Hello. So when I came home from rehab, obviously, life was pretty rocky, right? And when you got home from it. Yeah, when I came home from rehab and you knew that, you know, I've said I was going to do things different before and didn't always follow through. What was the first thing that you recognized when I came home, as far as communication wise goes with you, Case?

Well, I just opened or open. I just noticed that we had a lot more open communication in a sense of, like, I understand your thought process throughout whatever you were doing throughout the day. Instead of feeling kind of like an egg Shelly walking on eggshells, never know what you're gonna get kind of personality. It was more like the communication was open to all kind of get on the same page and talk about our feelings and express ourselves and not really feel afraid to express ourselves. You know what I mean?

So you were 15 at the time, which.

I was 16 when you got out of rehab, right?

No, you were 16.

I was about to be 16.

Yeah. So, like, that's a crazy time in your life anyway. And, you know, as a divorced single mom and a lot of stress. Did you feel the shift pretty quickly?

Of what?

As the way that I would talk to you?

I'm not sure if I felt the shift pretty quickly. Honestly, when I think back to it, it's hard for me to remember a cut and clear moment because I Was also so young in a sense of. I was pretty self absorbed and pretty wrapped up in myself at that age that it was like I was more like just like observing what was going on and praying for the best, hoping for the best. Didn't know what I would get on the other side of it. And then I was really pleasantly surprised.

Hallelujah. Yeah. An enneagram. 8 and 7 were communicating effectively as a teenager and a single mom. It was pretty amazing. And you know, I get what you're saying about being self absorbed. And I mean, shit, I, you know, I have addict, addictive tendencies. So I'm pretty self absorbed too at times. So it was, it was cool to watch you and Joey. What did you first notice, like, when I came home? Because you were 14 and before I went to rehab, you and I had been brawling pretty hard.

Yeah. It's funny because when you were giving a little intro, you mentioned how like.

You felt like maybe we didn't feel loved by you before you learned about all this stuff.

It's funny because I just, I don't think that's entirely true. Like, I always knew for sure that you loved Casey and I more than anything. I mean, Casey and I were having a conversation like a few days ago about how we always were, like, provided for. Like, we always had a place to live, we had braces, even though like, financially we weren't in the best spot.

We always had food, like we were never in need, which says a lot. And I knew you loved us because of that. I know it sounds weird and it's tough to like.

Well, no, it's actually not because that's how I was shown love as a child.

And it makes sense because your, your dad was the same way to where you always had what you needed. But there was definitely that emotional disconnect that it's like, okay, I know you love me more than anything, but I don't feel that ever. You know what I mean?

Well, and as a two and a helper, you know, that is like, you're the biggest empath.

Exactly.

So if you're not feeling that beautiful energy, even though you logically understand, yes, I'm cared for, loved, provided for, there was that disconnected.

And I think that was where like, the inner turmoil came for me is to where, like, I was grateful for all of these.

Like, needs that I was had that were being met for sure by you. But I was like, upset and angry that.

I didn't feel anything from that. And when you were speaking, I was thinking about like, all the People in my life growing up that I really cling to, like the coaches, the teachers, the parents were always the ones that were really, like, gentle with me. Like all of the teachers growing up, it was more like the. It was the sweet, nurturing woman. I was always like their favorite student because they were my favorite person or with the coaches. I usually didn't respond well to getting yelled at. I mean, I was okay with it and I could look past it, but it was hard for me. It was really hard for me. And then I would have coaches that would kind of put their arm around me and I would play better and, like, give my all for that coach. And I think that's where the disconnect was for me and, you know, was that you were more of the coach that was demanding. Not saying you were yelling at me all the time or anything, but there was. There was always an intensity level. And I can snap back, but again, in unhealth, I go to an eight.

Exactly.

So when I'm an eight and you're an eight, it's.

It's like an unhealthy eight.

It's like poison.

Yeah. And it was. I mean, we joke about it now, but right before, like, I went to rehab, you were, like, crying for help in your behaviors, which, you know, you were that perfect kid that was everybody's favorite student, every coach's dream, never did anything wrong. And right before rehab, it was like my eye opening moment when.

You did something that was, like, totally out of character and it was like you were running from our life, like, very metaphorically and what was going on. And it was a big wake up call for me. And as an 8, you know, I've said this before on the show that eights carry an energy and intensity level that's about 100 times more than we even realize. And when you have an empath in the house that is so sensitive and strong and has healthy boundaries today, it's beautiful.

Looking back, like, no wonder he had so much anxiety and stress because he wasn't feeling that nurturing part of me. And, you know, you've said to me, like, you always felt seen, right? Like, you felt like I always saw you, but maybe I didn't hear the cry of your heart, so to speak. So when I got home, obviously we had to do some repairing. When did you start to notice that, like, that nurturing part of me? Because, you know, you and I have talked at length over the last eight years about what was missing for you from me as a child, and it was always that Nurturing piece. When did you notice that come into play?

I mean, there's not like one specific moment that comes to mind. I just remember you coming home from rehab.

And your ex leaving and we were kind of in shambles.

I just remember you like giving me the freedom to.

Just be who I am. And at the time it was. I was playing baseball and I was, I mean, working extremely hard because I knew that if I wanted to go to college and like, baseball was kind of that avenue that I think that would have been in.

And I don't know, I just remember you giving me like the freedom to enjoy it. I know that sounds weird, but that was like a big shift for me because I like pressure instead of, instead of a pressure to do something, it was like, just go. Just go do it because you enjoy it.

Again. That was like a year down the line.

But.

I don't know, it just stands out to me to where it was like.

And that felt nurturing.

It did. It was just you were seeing me and I didn't have to do something because, you know, it was just a freedom being seen by somebody. So I think that was like the major shift.

Probably the greatest compliment you've ever given me was when we had that hard conversation. And I just want to acknowledge how brave it is for your child to say I love you. And I always felt seen by you, but I was missing that nurturing aspect. And as a mom, I'm not saying that was easy to hear. I knew it. I knew the truth. And when you said to me, but you've certainly made up for it tenfold, that is a testament to really speaking your language. And Casey, like yours, you know, you as an enthusiast, you know, you kind of, when you're not in health, you know, you can kind of become this escapist and oh, 100%. And so when you're dealing with a mom who's one, she's not healthy, super rigid, intense, judgy, all the things.

Yeah.

When did you notice for you that you didn't feel the need to escape home so much?

Oh, that was way after rehab in my. For me at least.

So while before you went to rehab, that was definitely my go to thing was escapism. Is that what we're calling it?

And even during, while you were in rehab, like I definitely was the last one to even feel like I was stopped pushing back, you know what I'm saying? And actually give in and give it a shot and be open minded to hearing everyone out. Hearing you out. So I feel like it Took me a little bit longer than Joey to really, like, put my walls down again and like, have some trust back. But.

I noticed that, like, I just stopped kind of trying to escape home when our communication got better and when it was not that house that we lived up. When we moved to Tempe, we moved to a big, pretty house in Tempe. And I could just tell, like, it was you kind of wanting to escape more than me. And that's why we moved out of Gilbert for a little bit, you know what I mean? And so it kind of like put me into like a perspective of on this is her doing that right now so I could actually empathize with how you were feeling. Because I do that all the time. You know what I mean? I literally, not that I run away from my problems, but like, if I'm over the top, stressed out, like, I go to a happy social distraction or like doing absolutely anything else just to keep my brain occupied, honestly. So when I noticed that you were kind of doing that with our home and like wanting that big of a fresh start, like, I knew it was that big of a deal to you and how important sobriety was to you and picking up the pieces that are everywhere at the moment. So I think that was probably my first moment of like, grace and empathy to the whole situation.

So obviously I didn't talk about the Enneagram until probably like three or four years ago. So, you know, I'd been kind of integrating it and using the tool of the Enneagram without you guys even knowing it. It's like you didn't even know there was a 2 and a 7 enthusiast and a helper. But I was using the tool. And you know, I want to put a disclaimer out there because there's a lot of different schools of thought about, you know, typing children or anybody like under 18. And I just want to say I was guessing like, as their own self discovery process has developed, we've really honed in on what that looks like. But when I was.

Assessing what I was what was in front of me and because I know them like in their hearts probably better than anybody except themselves, I was pretty spot on accurate. And so just knowing. And here's the other thing. If I was wrong, I would pivot a little bit and like, oh, maybe that's not it. Right? You know, it's always a trial and error, but really wanting to do that. And you know, I get questions a lot of the time from parents want me to come in and do workshop style with their Families. And I love doing that, by the way, because I think it's super helpful when, you know, the collective home can kind of really understand each other. So it was about three or four years ago, after you moved back from California, that you came and moved back. You know, you spent, what was it, six or seven months out in Los Angeles by yourself as that beautiful free spirit. And then you came back and we had moved back to Gilbert into the house that we're in today. And I think you having your time on your own and me and Joey having that time to really work on our stuff and in this energy, energetic space of this house, like, it was. It was truly like home. And, you know, after you being on your own for so long by yourself in a big city, to come into our home with, like, rules and a mom, but we never really missed a beat.

Yeah, honestly, I think I was having a harder time adjusting to just, like, post Los Angeles depression. Like, I wish I was still there kind of thing. But honestly, what I actually noticed coming back, and I only lived with you for, like, a few short months before I moved out again. But I noticed in those few short months, like, I was actually at a very low place for myself. And the fact that the household was so balanced, even though there was obviously structures and, like, I didn't have, like, a free for all like I did in California or whatever, like, obviously I'm living with my parents, so there's going to be rules. But it was way different. Like, I felt like, okay, I can give and take. I don't have to feel so afraid to do what I want to do. I can ask you permission and you're probably going to say yes because we have this level of trust now and all this. So honestly, even though I was at a very low point in my life at that moment, mentally, the fact that the house was so, like, in check and everyone was pretty much moving at the same pace and had a really good understanding of each other, it actually made it a lot easier on me. I didn't think moving back after all that was too crazy.

Yeah, it was a beautiful time. And a balance. I love that word, balance. And Joey, like, when we moved into this house, which was now four and a half years ago, which is crazy, and you were finishing out your senior year, and it was just you and I for a little while, you know, you and Casey are only 14 months apart. And for. I know. And for your, like, Irish twin to be gone, like, you'd never been separated your whole life, and then you're Left with me. Did you ever have a moment that you were afraid that you and I might kill each other or really not.

Do so well like, without me in the house?

Yeah. I mean, you're a beautiful, healthy balance for us. Because Joey and I can get a little intense, you know, emotionally. Mine's, you know, angry, and his is feels and all that. And you just bring this light. Like, having a seven in the house, especially a healthy seven, is the greatest gift of all time. Like, seriously, you are. Like, we'll both agree. Joey and I, like, we say it all the time when you're not here. Like, thank God for you, because it's the truth. Because you bring just, like, this lightness to everything and fun. And, you know, for a girl like me that grew up in a home where fun was not okay or safe, like, of course God gave me you to show me what that looks like. And you've been modeling that for me since the day you came into the world. But for those months that Joey and I were without you, which was really sad for us. I know I was upset about it. I know we were, like, mourning over here, like, every day. I think we said, God, I miss Casey. But it really helped. Joey and I kind of work through our stuff.

To answer your question, I don't think I had that fear.

Just because, again, we were a few years down the line post rehab and sobriety.

I feel like we were hitting our, like, a.

Like the sweet spot.

Yeah, we were, like, in a groove, in a healthy pattern. New chapter, new chapter. We had obviously been through so much together.

So it wasn't really a fear of mine that we would butt heads. I was actually pretty excited about it.

Yeah, it was great. And I knew that, like.

Not having the pressure of having to play baseball and just playing it because you loved it. I know. For myself. You know, I knew from the day I was carrying you how sensitive you were. Like, I could feel that carrying you. How sweet and empathetic and sensitive you were. And of course, like, giving birth to a boy with feelings, like, I mean, you're the opposite of my father. Like, the absolute opposite of my father. So, like, emotionally, oh, my gosh, you're like his clone in other ways, which is. I wish you could see that. But emotionally, you could not be more different than my father. And I know that I needed that sensitive kind of man energy in my life. Oh, I'm getting choked up just thinking about it. Like, that heart space and where, like, you don't ever judge me, even when I was an asshole. A lot of times you might have been mad at me, but you always, like, loved me and was cheering me on and that, like, I know I was given you to really tap into that compassion that has always come so hard for me because I've been angry most of my life.

It's a vulnerable place, too. It is.

And to be single now, 14 years.

For a young man to hold that kind of space without even knowing it for his mom.

Like, what a gift you have been for me, to teach me empathy and compassion. And because an 8 when they're healthy leans into the healthy side of the two. I think that's when you and I really started to groove. And when I understood that a two under stress goes into the unhealthy eight, like, there was this understanding of each other, like, when we spot it, we got it kind of thing.

Yeah.

Like, oh, you're the same person.

We are the same person. It's like the ying and yang, you know, like. And so we complement each other when we're in health. And I think for the last, gosh, four or five years, there has not been many moments where you and I go head to head on anything.

Yeah. We definitely articulate it really well. Can I say something?

Yeah.

This is, like, where I think the Enneagram plays into this. And my biggest fear and hesitation with the Enneagram is that it's gonna become the main thing for people.

Right.

And it's. It's just not. It's a tool at all. It's a tool, and, like, learning about it and knowing the Enneagram has been awesome for me in the sense that knowing that has helped me understand my mom and my sister more. It's not like knowing the Enneagram and one through nine and all the things in it is gonna change my life. What's gonna change my life is using that knowledge to understand the people I love more. And I think that's, like, super important. It actually is. One of my biggest fears with the whole Enneagram thing is that it's gonna become the main thing. It just can't be.

And I love that you said that because, you know, people do get a little obsessed with it, and obviously, I am pretty obsessed with it as a tool. It's just a part of the puzzle. And it's not the end all, be all. And there's. It's not black or white. You know, there's a lot of variances. And, I mean, I know you and I have even talked about. You don't think you're too Sometimes. And, like, no, you are.

We go head to head with it sometimes. Because there's so many moments where I feel like I'm 51% A2 and 49% A1. Yeah, well, I just don't know. But at the same time, exploring those things, I'm learning more about myself. So what can go wrong?

I think what you said is so powerful about using it as a tool. Like, you care about Casey and I so much. Obviously, like, you've been the man of the house since you were 10 years old. Like, you have. And because you're so compassionate and empathetic, the willingness to, especially for an 8, I know how hard that can be for you because I am so intense. And anger is something that you're not comfortable with, even your own. The willingness to understand that these are the things that show up when mom is under stress and it's not personal. And I can have a voice in that. And I can redirect communication in a certain tone where she'll stop dead in her tracks instead of going way off the edge. And same thing with Casey. I know. Because you're so different than us. Like, we can recognize when you start to get frantic in that, like, rigid energy, that perfectionist. Like, if it doesn't go this way.

Like, like, stressed out.

Yeah. Like, where you and I brawl, this is where you and I get into trouble.

Yeah. When you were saying, like, you and Joey had had too many head to head brawls, like, I was like, oh, must be nice. Like, rude. No, it's just because honestly, we're the polar opposites and you guys are so clones of each other. So sometimes. Actually I noticed that living in the household with you two, like how you were saying, like, you guys feel like that about me, whatever. About me being your polar opposite and bringing a balance. Like growing up and before I really got confident and like, who I am, like, I always hated that about myself. Like, I was always like, yeah, not like in like a shameful I hate myself way, but like, more like, so different.

Ugh.

I'm just so different. Like, why am I not naturally getting this stuff? They understand. Why do I not act the same way? You know what I mean? Like, good and just feeling like you're like a tornado and like, the house. And so like, now that we've all, like, grown and matured and we have, like this understanding of each other and I've actually felt like my differentness is appreciated more than not. You know what I mean? It's been really.

Cool to me, but it's funny when we have our head to head arguments because, like, when I get into, like that moment of panic and stress, like, I definitely noticed that's my seven. Like, going to what, what's it called? A one. Yeah. So sorry, I'm not good at that.

Dissecting.

That's fine.

Yeah, I definitely get, like, so super, like. Yeah, like, more just like stuck in, like a brain thought that, like, needs to go that way or else I'm gonna have a panic attack. And like, I definitely noticed that you. When I get into panic mode, it triggers you for some, like, in some way that makes you want to react very, like, abrupt and aggressive. And since I'm not Joey, like, I'm not the two, you and I have an understanding that like. Like an unspoken understanding. I guess I should say that. Okay, well, she's not the two. So we can go head to head and it's gonna be okay sometimes. You know what I mean? And so then we'll kind of get lost in it because we both are down to like, do. To hash it out, you know what I mean? But then, like, it. Then I sit back and I'm. And I am sensitive and you are sensitive and we both have feelings and we both hurt each other's feelings. And then it's like, oh, no. You know what I mean? Like, that's the worst.

Well, and even though you're a seven and we are polar opposites, emotionally, you do have that eight wing.

Yeah, 100%. Oh, yeah, I was gonna say that too.

And I have a seven wing, so like, we do have that.

And of course it comes out in those kind of moments, right? More than not, but.

And we're two females living under the same roof.

Yeah. And I share your makeup in your bathroom.

Take it.

Thanks, Mom.

Exactly. You know what? I really noticed that I saw, heard, understood you. And really, I mean, I've always been your biggest advocate when people would call you a drama queen. When you were little and you were in theater and you weren't like. Like you weren't into sports. I mean, you tried.

I was into sports, but you know what I mean? But I wasn't Joey, right? Yeah, No, I wasn't going to college for it. That is.

That's true. And when you got into theater and dance and, you know, I was never into that, but I remember just like, I want to embrace this because that's who she is. And. And then I remember like this so clearly. At that time, I got a note from one of your teachers basically ragging on you and Basically calling you in high school. Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Don't say her name.

Dang it.

I almost said you already tweeted her.

Shout her out. No, it's okay.

But, you know, and I've never been that parent that's, like, not my kid or anything like that. Like, no. Like, I'm not that person.

But I'm definitely not that person.

No. But I knew that this teacher was so full of shit, and I, like, came in hot on her and, like, put her in her place.

Yeah.

And she never messed with you again. But I think that you seeing that.

I believed you, it felt so awesome. Oh, yeah. That's 100% the truth. Because I just feel like growing up, and especially if we're gonna go because of the Enneagram, like, growing up as a 7 kid.

I was so misunderstood. And, like, I definitely felt like I was never taken seriously ever. So it was definitely fear of mine growing up when it came to, like, high school, of, like, you know, picking a career path, picking college and everything like that. Because, like, I was always afraid that if I picked something too serious for me, like, I'm never going to be successful because no one's going to understand me and whatnot. And so I think that's why I go into stress and I get very panic mode. It's usually the moments I realize or recognize that I'm not being heard or understood in that moment, and I lose it. And it does. It definitely sets me off. It's something even. Oh, my family members would tell you that, like, not just you guys.

Yeah, it's because you don't feel like.

Yeah, it's because, like, I'm saying something and it's not coming out the way I want, and it's, like, being interpreted or like, it's like, okay, you're dramatic. And it's like, I'm not trying to be dramatic. Like, you know what I'm saying?

But.

When you actually started understanding, like, oh, like. And you started showing me, like, you. You are super smart. You know that, right? And I'm like, whoa. I am like, that's cool. Never been told that in my life. You know what I mean? Even though I always knew it, it's just like, whoa. Like, my mom's actually. She's taking me seriously. And then you're like, oh, you want to go pursue this career of yours that is totally out of most people's, like, wants. Like, I didn't want to go to college necessarily. I wanted to go into the trades of the beauty industry and everything that I feel like you would have never thought like you would ever want to do in your life, you know what I mean? So it was like, cool to see you supporting a dream of mine that maybe was complete opposite of your personality. And like, maybe what, like, the normal route to take is. And so like, all those things of me being understood, like, oh, yeah, Casey does want to go to do something like this. Or Casey is saying something and she's actually very intelligent. All her ideas are super smart. It's like, oh, hell yeah, my mom's getting it. Mom's getting me and actually pushed me to be more successful because if I didn't have the support, I would have just given up right away because I've just always felt like that, you know what I mean? Like, what's the point of trying if no one's gonna take it seriously? And so having you kind of support me in that sense has always helped me.

Well, I remember the time that you came home and told me, like the counselor at school, like the career counselor or something, basically wrote you off and said, you know what, we're not even gonna bother with this conversation because the chances of you being successful are like nothing. And I remember when you came home and told me that, I was like, you gotta be like that. First of all, eightness is coming out right now. Because it's like, first of all, that is my child. And I know, like, she is gifted in ways that I don't understand all of the time, but it's still a gift. And grab your freaking popcorn. Cause wait till you see what this girl is gonna do with her life. Yeah, he.

The counselor and the city and the teacher was the same year. They both actually. The counselor was looking at my grades and like looking at college and stuff like that and more was like, yeah, you're not making it doing that, so figure it out. And I was like, okay. Rude. And my teacher, I told her what I wanted to do, which was go to makeup school and like, become a makeup artist and then see where that takes me in the beauty world, which obviously way where it is now. But she basically laughed at my face and was like, okay, Casey, I worry about you. And I'm just like, why do you work? Like, why? You know what I mean? And so doing all that, it was just like the best because I had your support. I knew that you believed in me, which made me believe in me. And it was like, haha. And went back to school and like showed the teacher my makeup license. I was like, remember when you said, like, I Wouldn't do it rude.

Well, and I think that, like, obviously me knowing the Enneagram and the career choices that you wanted, like, that could not be better for you. Like, that is like, your zone of, like, creativity and changing all the time. And, like, that's like, expression. Yeah, all the things. Like, of course I was gonna support that. Like, that is exactly what you should be doing. You know, as long as you love it. And I'm sure it'll pivot into other things we've talked about. But I think you having that kind of support also was receptive to the more business mind of mine that I brought to the table for you. You know, you were more receptive to my education and wisdom because you were being seen, heard, and understood.

Oh, 1,000%. Like, whenever, before we've found our communication skills together. Like, before we really found our way of speaking to each other. If you would ever try to give me, like, any sort of advice, even just on anything, like, it's just like, I don't want to take it because I'm such a. I want to come up with it myself kind of person. Like, I want the idea to be mine. And if it's not, it doesn't sound the greatest to me, especially coming out of, like, my mom's mouth. No offense, because she's my mom. I love you to death, but. And so now when, like, I feel like, okay, it's like a give and take, like, we're actually having a conversation. And it's not like mom telling little kid what to do. It's more like a cohesive.

Like, have you thought about.

Yeah, like, ooh, let's, like, brainstorm together. And, like, let's think of fun, like, smart ideas together. And then you educating me on, like, business, finances, how to live alone, car problems, like, literally every saving money, even, like, just the little things like taxes. I took, I took everything more in and I was actually able to learn more. And now I actually feel way more educated on half the things I wouldn't have if I didn't have good communication with you. You know what I mean? Because I was actually able to comprehend everything you would teach me.

Well, and I always knew, like, even though your grades sucked all the time, like, it was not your thing.

Disclaimer. We are like C plus B average. Okay, moving on.

Not B. C is a stretch. And you know what? I've never been one to put a big emphasis on grades. I'm like, put a good effort in and we're good. But I will tell you this, and I've said this on stages in front of thousands of people before. You are the most socially skilled communicator with any human being that I've ever met. Like, you can talk to anybody and they feel immediately seen, heard, understood, not judged. So I learned, like, you have a gift of communicating naturally.

I really take pride in communicating.

You're good at it.

Thank you.

You're welcome. And C minus is even a stretch, by the way. A plus communicator. There you go. And you know what? And I honestly, I recognize how important that is over everything. Like if you can talk to people and communicate, anything's possible. And I did believe that. That's why I never was like, well, whatever. Still were pain in the ass. But JoJo.

Yes.

So.

You coming into your own as a two, you know, one of the unhealthier traits as a two is being an over giver. And you can kind of slip into codependency if you're not careful. And I remember as you were making the decisions as a senior in high school not to continue on to play baseball, like you wanted to leave the game loving it and that's what you did. And I totally admired that decision. And everybody I remember was saying, what? How can you let him not continue? He's so talented. I'm like, you know what, I want him to be happy with his choices and things like that. And you also made some decisions about relationships that you were in for a long period of time. And I know when you hit that age in your life, you were on a three year self discovery process. What made you really like make those decisions? And you know, the baseball, the relationship, your choice in maybe education.

That's a good question.

I mean around my senior year, which is when we moved into this house is like four and a half years ago now. We were just on a self discovery, all three of us, a self discovery journey. Like we were going there, you know, Casey was stepping into her own, going to LA to pursue her dreams. My mom was clearly stepping into her own. I mean, building a crazy successful business and committed to sobriety. And I was graduating high school, so I was still.

I was still figuring it out. I mean, I'm 18 years old at this time.

But I'm super thankful for that because my eyes were beginning to shift towards all of this. I've always been pretty self aware.

Yeah.

But I didn't know what was healthy and unhealthy until around my senior year. And I started to look at my life and recognize.

Like the areas in which I Was kind of living in an unhealthy pattern.

And I think I was so excited to give up baseball.

Which is crazy to even. Yeah. Which is crazy because, I mean, growing up, I would draw a D backs a on every single homework assignment. Growing up, like, baseball was everything from.

The time you were like two or three.

Literally. I mean, Ms. Fiero, she'll still say, like, I'll never forget your d backs days on every single paper in kindergarten. Like, baseball was everything.

And around that time, I mean, I started to really dive into my faith. And that became the most important thing in my life by far and away. And I knew the next year it was either like, you're gonna go play baseball, or I wanted to lead young life, which is a youth ministry. And I mean, you can be faithful anywhere. But I felt like young life was calling me way more than baseball, and I was really excited to give that up. So that was my reasoning there and then the relationships. Was dating this girl for like four years. Loved her, but I was definitely. I was unhealthy and I was codependent. And there were just so many aspects in myself that I.

I don't know. It was clearly unhealthy.

Well, I think you recognize that you would not be able to grow as long as you were in that relationship.

And I knew it was time to move on from that relationship because of that.

So also, as a two and somebody who doesn't like to let people down, like, that's why a lot of twos traditionally are givers, you know, that so much of their identity is receiving love based on what they do for others. And I know when you made the decision to let go of baseball, dealing with disappointing people, I mean, coaches and family members, like, people were really like, what? And for you to honor that boundary and self honor your decision, how hard was that for you?

Oh, man, so hard. I mean, it still is something I'm sorting through daily, to be honest. Obviously, I'm growing into it, but at the time, it was extremely hard because I care so much about what people think about me.

Right.

And to take steps completely opposite of what people would expect or even desire for me was scary.

Very scary. And it still is. Because honestly, I have no idea what I want to do with my life. I don't know what career direction I want to take.

And that freaks me out a lot. It's probably my biggest point of stress is that is not knowing what to do next.

I remember when we had that conversation in my bathroom, I'll never forget was maybe a Year after high school, around that time. And you were battling with this because there were all these expectations of what Joey will do because you've always done what people expected of you.

Yeah.

Like, I mean, you lived by that code for most of your life. And I'll never forget, like, you were in a little bit of turmoil. You're like, I don't. Like, what should I be doing? I don't know what I want to do. And I remember.

Not giving you permission, but, like, seeing you and saying, listen, like, nobody has to figure this out today. Quite honestly, the only person this affects is me because you live in my house. The only person that really cares about the calling on your heart is God and me.

So it's okay.

And I remember this overwhelming sigh of relief come over you. Like, okay, the pressure. And I know you still battle it because now you're, like, 22, and, like. And you know what? You still don't have to have it figured out.

Yeah. And it's something that, like, I have to remind myself of every day, is that. I mean, it's tempting because I know.

Like, I could go back to school and I can get straight A's.

Totally.

And I can go work, like, in a corporate job, and I can be really successful.

Yeah.

Like, I'm confident in those things. But I just, like, that's not. That's not it for me.

It isn't it.

You know, And I have to continually remind myself that, like, it's. It's okay to figure it out. And while I'm figuring it out, it's like, I'm. I've learned so much about myself. Like, I'm. By far and away. I feel very mature for being 22.

I've been working in the same job for almost four years now and have been really successful in it and have saved a ton of money. And.

I'm like. I feel like my life is. Is leading people.

Like, there's nothing I'm ashamed of. And that doesn't. Like, that has nothing to do with school or my career path. It's, like, who I am and what I'm becoming, I'm really happy about. And I know that's gonna be, like, crucial when I really figure out what I want to do.

I'm glad that you're taking the time to really explore. And I told you that, like, take this time to learn who you are and what makes you tick. And as a two, like, the twos out there, when they're in a healthy pattern, they take on that healthy four, which is the Individualist, the romantic, the creative, the artist. And Joey plays music and sings. Like nobody in high school would have ever guessed that. And to see you step into that creative energy with that heart of service that you have. You're right. Like, you're doing just fine.

Yeah.

And it's going to be beautiful. Whatever.

But at the same time, like, having that freedom that. Are you giving me permission to just explore me has, like, been the biggest gift. Because in that I've been able to dive into things I never thought I would in my life. Like music, he said, like, I get to do that and be excited about it. And honestly, if I would have just gone status quo, I don't know if I would have ever discovered these things by myself.

Well, you may have discovered it like I did in your 40s and, you know, leaving some wreckage behind and, you know, because I wasn't given that kind of permission or direction or anything.

I definitely wanted a different path for both of you guys. So we're living in the Corona land right now and, you know, the life of quarantine, and for a lot of people out there, it has been really stressful living, you know, whether it's in marriages or relationships or parenting and things like that. And that first week, Casey and I, it was a little. I mean, we've got an extrovert in the house and you put an extrovert in quarantine.

It's not looking pretty.

It wasn't. And I will say that you pulled your shit together pretty quickly after week one. And watching you. So did you. Thank you. Yeah, I wasn't exactly in my best health.

We just weren't the best at the.

First week, but yeah, because the 8 does not like to be controlled or be vulnerable. And that felt very like, are you kidding me? Putting me on lockdown. I like to isolate on my terms. Thank you. And Casey likes to be this free.

Speaker and it's like, what you're telling me I can't leave at any second I want. Like, I felt so trapped instantly.

Like we both did, but for different reasons.

Yeah. Like, I was like, oh, hell no, this is not happening. And I was under stress. And boom, there we go. Literally the second seven is under stress. It's like the world is ending, you know what I mean? It's like just so destructive sometimes. Like, just like in my personality. Not like physically, but like just like freaking out. And with you I feel like that's just like pushing, poking the bear, you know what I mean? Like, you really want to go here? You really want to get me always ready to fight. Yeah. So the first week I actually was super nervous about the whole quarantine because I was like, okay, we're all gonna kill each other. At least I'm going to kill someone. They're probably gonna become best friends and I'm gonna just like, cry, be like out by the pool tanning every day. That's just what it's gonna be. But now actually I feel like it's. It's actually gotten me, in my opinion, like, a lot closer with you two. It feels really good to like, be like on a household understanding and system, like, where it's like, okay, we're all going through shittiness right now. No one wants to be in the situation we're in. We're grateful for what we have and grateful for each other. So it's. So it's made the perspective just a lot different. And it's been a lot easier to actually coexist as a household because I feel like we all have a very good.

We all have big hearts and so we all have a lot of empathy for what's actually going on in the world right now. And like, I don't think any of us are very, like, consumed in like, oh, it sucks that I can't leave our beautiful house. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I'm very grateful. And so I think once that first week of panic and stress just kind of like settled and went away and we realized like, okay, this is real. We all need to figure it out, like, how to deal with each other and how to live with each other. It's been perfect. It's been great.

I will say that quarantine has revealed gifts about each of you and myself that without this, I don't know if it would have been possible so without you, I mean, not that you're an escapist so much anymore, but you're always going and doing something.

Yeah.

Very rarely are you just like sitting around chit chatting.

Yeah. No.

And the gift of this quarantine, I. You and I, and you've been watching me navigate some really hard things for me. And the fact that you are so ridiculously present and here and that like you're one of the first go to's that I actually want to talk to about stuff.

Like the other night when I texted you and like you were top three of people I wanted to talk to.

About it, it made my heart so happy.

And even though, like you weren't in the house at that time because you've been so ridiculously present. Through this, you felt safe for me to be vulnerable. And so as an eight, the things I've been revealed about myself because it is so quiet is I can distract myself with really good, busy work that I can justify as, like, productive. Productive and getting shit done. And, you know, the things that I do. And it's Joey's laughing over here because I do. I can go into, like, get handle it mode. And this has really forced me to feel all of my feelings, which as an eight, we don't love that.

But having the safety of both of you and your health has really allowed me to do it. I still don't like it feeling all the things.

But the gift of the the quiet and the world coming to a halt is making me address things, especially in this season of my life that I'm moving into. That's really scary for me. It's making me not rush that process. So, Joey, like, you in quarantine, like, what is this for you? Like, what are you learning about? What's the gift in this for you?

I feel like it kind of fits my personality really well. I was kind of excited about it, to be honest. Not excited. Obviously, it's terrible with time happening in the world, but, like, I can be. I can be alone. And honestly, it felt like a big weight lifted off my shoulders as far as, like, taking the pressure off of myself and just allowing myself to, like, sit.

So I've like, totally dove into that.

I mean, bought like, this walking golf cart so I can stay active. Stay active and just walking like seven miles a day or done way too many puzzles and started doing Legos. I've binge watched a bunch of TV shows and I've been able to wake up and read and journal, like, a bunch of these things I've been doing that I've enjoyed.

So honestly, quarantine's been good for me, but it's also revealed.

Like, how important community is.

And it's made me realize how much I just miss my friends.

Which is cool because I haven't felt like I missed my friends in a while.

But at the same time, like, I'm excited to go back and be like, okay, I don't have to live with the pressure that I put on myself and I can still. Like.

Does that make sense?

Yeah. And I think the thing as a two for you, because the twos naturally can read people's needs. And that's why you are so good in ministry and leadership and all the things. And for you to have nothing to worry about but your Own needs is actually a gift for you because in the past, you might have felt guilty for that.

Yeah.

Right. So I think that that's been a beautiful thing as well. And yeah, the Legos, the story about the Legos and me, it's. It's hilarious. So I buy this 4,000 piece Lego set for myself. 5,000 piece Lego set. His one wing is coming out.

Got you. Yeah. And you know, I. Oh, and it's Wrigley Fields. So I'm like, jacked. I bought this for myself for my birthday. I was really excited to do it. And Joey wasn't home when I opened it. Casey's here. And I'm looking at this and I'm mad.

Like, total enneagrams in the household on one story.

Yeah. This whole LEGO fiasco will reveal the enneagram characteristics all wrapped up in one. I open this thing and I'm something that I was so excited about. I immediately am angry. And Joey's not a homie. I'm like dropping F bombs. And Casey's like, it's gonna be okay.

It was a hostile environment.

I'm like, what's going on?

And you're like, it was my birthday.

These instructions are just trash. Do they really not give you any words?

And you can't like, oh, I was so pissed off. I'm like, you know what? Fuck it. I am just gonna build whatever. I'm gonna go rogue. And she goes, I'm just gonna get creative.

I'm just gonna build what I want. And I was like, okay, mom, you do that. I'm down.

Let's make creative Legos. Enter Joey. You cannot do that.

I was just like, this is like.

You know, it's true, it is, but there's a lot of things where I'm like, I can totally release control of that. Like, it doesn't have to be perfect, but with legos, it does.

It does.

There's no way around it. You have to follow the instructions to a T or else the entire thing will be lopsided. You can't just get creative with 5,000 pieces of Legos.

And it's true. And so all of a sudden, it turned into a business transaction for me. Like, all of a sudden I'm like, all right, I'm going into management mode. I'm like, how can we most effectively handle this where he can do the rule following and I can do the controlling and delegating? And we figured it out, and within that Kid put a 5,000 piece Lego set together and we're all happy.

Yeah. It was great.

We were all happy and Casey was cheering us both on and now I have another addiction and now he has another addiction.

So.

Thank you. So, last thing I want to talk about is there are people that come to me all the time and they see our relationship and they know it's not bullshit. Like you see us out and like what I put on social media is exactly who we are, the good, the bad, the ugly. And there's not very much ugly with us anymore because we want to be compassionate and loving towards each other all the time. So what would you say to the parents out there that are struggling with their kids? Casey, you first.

How would you recommend not a parent?

So it's harder for me.

What advice would you give to a parent though if they don't feel that connection with their kid? Not necessarily a 7, but what would be one thing that they could do today to maybe bridge that gap from the disconnect?

I just feel like actually genuinely hearing them and actually wanting to know about their life and what they're doing. Because like, honestly, especially with like teenagers, like 11 to like 16 years old, like preteen to teenage, it's like the worst years. And like, personally I felt really misunderstood just in general. So I think maybe just taking the time and really getting down with your kids and getting on their level, even like tapping into your old 16 year old self brain while you're having this conversation, just making them feel like you're equal and not like dominant for a little bit, it will really probably ease the tension and actually open up a pretty line of communication because I know that's what I needed.

Do you think a lot of parents parent in a way because they're worried about how you show up in the world is a reflection on them? I know. I, like before I got healthy I was worried about what you were doing and how that would reflect on me.

Like what I was doing in what way.

What would people think about me as a parent if you weren't who I thought you should be?

Got it right. What about it?

So do you think there are parents out there that maybe like to really check themselves on that? Like I had to.

I think there's a lot of parents who are more wrapped up in the image of it all than the actual personality and like relationship you have with your kid? Like I, I see a lot of, even on social media it can feel very forced and very like, oh, I can tell that that kid is actually this personality type. But like the mom's making that child seem like completely Different. And it's like, dude, just love your kid for who they are. Like, stop trying to control it, because at the end of the day, they're just gonna resent you if that happens, and they won't. They'll turn out completely opposite of what you want. If you try to just parent by fear of judgment, you know what I mean? You're just gonna get an extra, extra resistant child.

Those are some straight facts right there. Yeah. Yeah. Joey, what advice would you give?

Advice I would give to a parent.

Yeah. And I know you deal with a lot of parents.

Yeah.

I think it's kind of similar to Casey, to where. I mean, as a parent, you are in. You are in charge of your kid, for sure. Like, they're under your house, under your roof. Like, there are rules and there are some things that you shouldn't budge on, which I agree with. But I also think it's important to know that, like, there are other ways of doing things.

That are more effective.

That are more effective. And I think as a parent, at least when I'm a parent, one day, I hope that I'm not so stuck in my ways that I'm completely unwilling to change something just because it's what I'm used to or what I think is right.

Yeah. So I would say.

Looking at your kid and being willing to see their side, even if it's something you don't agree on, just being willing to see that is really important.

And as we were doing this whole podcast, we kept saying how, like, I don't deal with anger very well, which is true. Like, when someone is harsh with me, I usually don't react too well. But that doesn't mean I don't think conflict is really important.

I think conflict is essential to having a relationship. Like, my mom and I, we have a bunch of conflict, but that doesn't mean we're angry with each other in the midst of it. And I think that's important.

We express it in a healthy way.

Yeah. And I think that's important that, like.

Yeah. And you have to know your kids to know how to deal with conflict with them. Because human to human relationships, you're gonna have conflict, and you have to know how to deal with it.

And for me, anger is just not that way. Sometimes it comes out, which it needs to come out for sure. I'm not saying don't be angry with me. Like, if you're angry, let me hear it. I know. But, yeah, those would be my two things. Is that, like, seeing your kid and, like, don't mold so much that you just refuse to ruffle feathers. You know what I mean? But also see them, it's just this like fine line and it's finding the gray area in between of like not being so stuck in your ways and not being completely lenient and just right in the middle is kind of where you're supposed to live.

Well, and I will say this as a parent and my advice to you as a parent or somebody that loves kids, or as an aunt or an uncle or just human, human and human relationship, I will say this, that I know had I tried to conform both these kids into what I knew, what I was taught wouldn't have ended well. And I would have missed the greatest blessing of all. You know, these two incredible kids are so unique and compassionate and loving and great people in the world, but they also are my greatest teachers and they both bring something to the table that I completely didn't have. I didn't have empathy and compassion at all. And of course I get a male, empathetic, compassionate kid. I had no free spirit in me. I was afraid to have fun because that was bad. That's what I was taught. And of course I get this free spirited, happy little hippie as a daughter. And had I tried to just communicate the way that I knew, I would have missed that miracle in the lessons for me and the world wouldn't get the blessings that they are in their true form today. And they're both doing great things in the world. And I know parenting is hard. It's hard as hell. And especially when you're under stress, financial stress, emotional stress, divorce, relationships, all the things and self discovery in your 40s, let me tell you, like when you wake up in your 40s and you're like, fuck, I don't know what I'm doing yet I'm responsible. For a 14 and 15 year old, that is a very humbling bring it to your knees moment. But I'm so grateful for my willingness to completely always be willing to look at myself. Even today, even tomorrow, and until our time on earth is done, just, just be willing to explore that for yourself so you can really be that for your kids. You know, you can't give compassion and love if you aren't giving it to yourself first. You can fake it. I was, I was, I mean, I was doing the best I could with what I had, but I really didn't lean into that for my kids until I was giving it to myself. So if you're a parent out there, you explore your self mastery and Your self awareness. I would love to help you with that. Obviously you can go to my website, traceyomalley.com, you can hit me up in the DMs on Instagram. And if you loved this episode, I know like the kids took time out of their day. They didn't even hesitate when I said, hey, do you guys want to record? They're like, absolutely. And when I said, is anything off the table? They're like, no, we're good. We're good, mom. So I know that they would love to hear what you have heard from this episode that landed on your heart and how you're going to use their story to move forward as well. You can tag us on Instagram, you can tag me and I'll make sure that they see it. And you can go to traceyamalley.com for more information on how I can maybe even come into your home or do workshop style with your family or even just start with you first. So I know that this the enneagram, the reason I got into it was these two amazing kids. And I am so grateful for the tool that it is that has allowed me to step out of my intensity and angry ateness and really see here and understand the two most important people in my life. And I know that that's what you want to. So be willing to take yourself on the journey. And until then, here's to Becoming Bulletproof. You guys want to say goodbye?

Bye.

Goodbye.

Bye guys. Thank you for tuning in to the Becoming Bulletproof podcast. If you learned a thing or two from our show today, it would mean a lot to me if you shared it and tagged me so I can hear exactly what landed on your heart. This will help me to bring you even more episodes with the topics and guests you want. Please head over to itunes and leave an honest and loving five star review. If this made an impact on you, you can find me on Instagram. Tracyomalley and I have tons of free resources for you at Tracy o'. Malley. As always, if you are wanting to ignite your purpose, profits and build your legacy, it's time to stand on the front line of your life and do the work. Let's become Bulletproof.