39: Building a brand that is authentically you with Matt Gottesman

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Welcome to the Becoming Bulletproof podcast. I am your host, Tracy o'. Malley. I'm a mom to Millennials, an author, Enneagram expert and multi million dollar entrepreneur, and master performance and business coach. I've gone from rock bottom to building a bulletproof business and life. If you're looking for the unfiltered transparent truth and ethos an extra kick in the ass, you will discover that here. Each week I'll be bringing you success stories of high level entrepreneurs as we discover how they became bulletproof and created their empire. You'll learn the story behind the glory along with Enneagram inspired truths so you can ignite your own purpose, profits and build your legacy. It's time for you to become bulletproof. Buckle up. Let's go.

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Becoming Bulletproof podcast. And I am so geeking out over this conversation that's about to happen. For those of you that know me, know I can't stand tech because I suck at it and it frustrates me and I have been known to throw many a Mac across the room for sure. And let me tell you about this man I'm about to introduce you to. You know, he's. You guys know that I am all about energy and I can read energy long before it even enters a room. I know when I'm around beautiful energy and equally know when I'm around energy that's not for me. And I will never forget the time that I met this man. We were introduced by a mutual friend and it was May of 2018 and all of a sudden he turned around. I was like, oh, this person is such a genuine good human being. Little did I know he was also brilliant in lots of areas that I'm not. But at a soul level, you know, I can tell when people have done the work and by the work and air quotes. You know, the hard stuff. The hard stuff where we have to come face to face with things that used to serve us but no longer do. And those are some of the hardest things to overcome. But as I got to know this person, not only did I fall in love with his beautiful heart and soul, but his wisdom is unmatched. He is a brand master and he can see the bigger picture for businesses, for people, for their brands. He's got an extensive list of accolades in that space, but it was about four years ago, I think he experienced a lot of loss personally and professionally. And he's a third generation entrepreneur. And the thing that spoke to my soul when I read this and his soul. Like his dad, who just recently passed away this last year, he said to him, you come from an entrepreneurial family, and for those of you listening, I want you to listen really loud and clear to this. You come from an entrepreneurial family. We all do our own thing. We are very independent. And I'm not going to tell you what to do, but if you were ever really going to run your race and do things your way, now would be the time to do so, you know, and this past weekend, we lost a legend in this world, not just on a basketball court, but for somebody that kind of ran his own lane, for sure. And if anything, you know, when we lose people. I know Matt and I both have lost our fathers, and, you know, with. With life the way it is, we're not guaranteed tomorrow. And having Matt in my life, he reminds me of that all the time because his soul is so beautiful and pure. He has a podcast which I've been on, and it's probably the interview I've done that most people really reach out and talk to me about. It was just so raw and pure. His podcast is called the Hustle Sold separately, which is ironic because, you know, when you hear the word hustle, you think one thing, but his meaning of hustle is something very, very different than what maybe you imagine. And that's what I love about him. He's all about flow, actually. And Hustle and FL wouldn't necessarily probably put together because Hustle seems like you're having to force things, but that's not at all what this means. He also has a business, also Systems Over Hustle. He's the master at scaling businesses. And I know many of you listening right now, you're like, yeah, I'm good at this. I'm good at this. But you're also burning the hell out of yourself. And you haven't figured out quite how to scale things yet, myself included. And so having a friend like this is worth more than anything I can even imagine just to listen to him. And he opens my mind up to things maybe I hadn't thought of. And Systems Over Hustle is helping you scale the very thing that you are in your zone of genius for. And if you haven't listened to his podcast, you must. The Hustle sold separately. It is hands down one of my favorites that I listen to. And he always has people on that maybe you haven't heard of, you know, in this influencer, you know, circuit that we see all the time, he always has somebody interesting. And that's what I love. About it. I love learning about new people. But in order to do all of the things that he does today, he really had to dig deep inside. And that's something that most entrepreneurs that are as successful as he is don't talk about very much. And he's one of those that will wear his heart on his sleeve all the time. He will cry with you openly, he will laugh with you openly. But going deep inside, you know the man he knew he'd become and the man that stood in the middle of that gap has like really evolved. Especially even in the last two years I've known him, I've seen an evolution process. And I cannot wait for this conversation. I cannot wait for you to experience this legend. And wise, wise young man, Matt Gottesman. I am so happy you're here.

That was an incredible intro. My God.

Right? It's just the truth. My goodness, like, you are a spectacular fucking human being. You really, really are.

Thank you. I will receive that wholeheartedly. Thank you. It means a lot. And yeah, you actually, you have seen me go through an evolutionary process the last couple years. Some of the, the areas where you, you know, pushing the hardest than I had had in previous years, you know, so. Thank you.

You're welcome. So you're third generation entrepreneur.

Yeah.

What was the kind of entrepreneur life you were exposed to?

You know, I, I had seen it all. I was actually just having this conversation with my mother about her and my father's relationship growing up and how much they worked as a team.

My father just. Everything about him is outside of the box thinking. I mean, he even came from the generation where he was in the military as part of a way to pay for his education to become a lawyer. But he still served. And even in the army he would get into trouble because he didn't think like a fall in line person. He always saw angles and he always saw like. That makes no sense. Why would you think that way? You know.

So, so my, so my father was just very. He'd either be building his law practice or he had also a construction company because he figured that out. He was really into like building and stuff like that. And sure enough, you know, he had a very supportive partner that was like in my mother that was like, all right.

How can I help? So she. And I grew up automatically thinking that partnership and trusting in a leader to get things done.

Is natural.

I later on had to learn about leadership in my own way and the different layers and responsibilities that come in with that as well as also that trust is earned as is respect. And, you know, it's also not always easy for other people to just, you know, trust. Trust in somebody that they're better leading them. That that's also another individual level too, not just the person leading. Right. So I was very fortunate to be around that. But I saw my father make lots of money, you know, be a self made person, lose lots of money. And I saw him when he lost, he still did the right thing. And the losses weren't on him. The losses were not on. Now he took accountability because he was a partner with other people, but he did the right thing. It was other people who didn't. So I saw him take high roads when you were talking about a shit ton of money.

Mm.

To be able to do that. I mean, I can only imagine how he had to battle his own ego to step aside and make very, very tough calls to do the right thing. Even though he wasn't the person, quote, unquote, at fault for the most part, I mean, where it's very evidenced, but he still took the high road and it cost him a lot of money. So I also saw him start from scratch again.

So when you see him experience the great loss, like, yes, you can recognize that he did the right thing. Was there any kind of emotional turmoil that you witnessed by him? Because, you know, watching him do that, one of two things can happen. You're like, yeah, I'm not gonna do it that way because I don't want to see. Like, I don't want to feel what he's feeling by doing the right thing. Or did he handle it with such class? And he always knew that something good would come out of even the shit show that's happening right now.

He. He handled it with class at least because some things weren't public behind the scenes. My mom and him would work. Like, she would later go on to tell me, like, yeah, you know, there were moments where he was, you know, he was. He was upset, he was depressed. It's. It's hard. Like, you get, you know, you can get knocked down. And so she would get his mind back in the game, like, hey, let's go out to a movie. Let's go out. You know, we'll make it work. Let's go, let's go for a drive. Let's go do something to get out of your head. That's where, like your teammate. Right. I look at everything now as playing a game seven, which I know we've talked about before, and I can go on hair on that. So. But emotionally, what I. Because I would eventually go on to have some very similar lessons as he did. You know, it's like, it's interesting what we absorb and we don't even realize it. Luckily, I did it 20 years earlier than him. So my first understanding of business partners and what works and what doesn't work started in my early 20s, whereas he was experiencing a lot of that, like, 40 plus. So I was very fortunate that any mistakes that he made that I made happened very early on. And you don't sometimes realize that you're repeating certain things, even though.

You watch them handle things from. For the most part, with care. And yeah, of course I thought, like, oh, I would, you know, I. I wouldn't want to deal with that with a partner and I would want to deal with this. I wouldn't want to deal with that. What do I go do in my early 20s? I end up with a business partner and things didn't work out, you know, and it went through every emotion you could possibly imagine, you know?

Yeah, it's, you know, I say all the time, if you don't repair it, you repeat it. And we do what we're taught, told and modeled. And there is. I love that you just said that because, you know, of course, you know, I've got kids that are in their 20s now and watch, as a parent, you never want your kids to have to learn from your same mistakes through their own experience. However, the accelerated process, like 20 years earlier, watching my kids experience things in their early 20s, like, thank God they don't have to do this in their 40s like I did. Right? And. And there is something to be said by this generational lessons. You know, we talk about generational patterns a lot and like, that bad part, but there's some beautiful generational lessons that you've gotten along the way in this outside of the box thinking, I swear to God, there is nobody that thinks more outside the box in my life than you. And I'm obsessed with it. Like, I am one of those, Like, I was always the person that was, like, raising my hand and saying, but why, but why are we doing it this way? Like, if you want me to buy in, I can buy in, but I need to fucking understand why we're doing it this way. Not to be an asshole, but because, like, if I'm going to feel this to its fullest, I need to understand it. And I love, like that. I think that's where you and I geek out so much. It's like, we can talk all day about crazy shit, but what was Your first entrepreneur experience on your own.

I go, I go as far back as six and seven years old.

I love it.

And it's a funny story.

I laugh because, like, what I did, like, it was just. Just goes to show you how much you don't know, obviously, but like.

I was so I was about 6, 7 years old. I was in, you know, kindergarten, whatever. It was first grade. And I was wearing the friendship bracelets that my sister made, but at a time where they were becoming very popular. So naturally when people ask me at school, oh, hey, do you sell those? Like, do you make them? Do you sell those? I was like, yes. Like, my first, My first. All I knew was yes. I don't even know what I was thinking. I wasn't. And then I went home and I said to my sister, I'm like, could you make more? Like in bulk? You know, like, can you just make more? Yeah, I could actually. Got a few lessons coming up in this. So I went back to school and I said, well, how much? And I was like, oh, like, you know, dollar apiece or 50 cents apiece or whatever it was. It was like the materials weren't really anything anyway. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't think about materials. I just said, yeah, like a dollar a piece. And so one girl, she goes, oh, I'll take 20. And then other people wanted more. And obviously, like, you don't think about.

You just take orders and you take money, you know, I'm like, this is how a six year old is thinking. I go home, I told my sister, I said, I need like 30 of them. And. And she's like, what? You know, and then my mom starts helping and they're both like, you know, making these friendship bracelets, whatever with the yarn and everything. And, you know, I'm busy. Production is good. Not smell like I'm paying them. I'm six, I don't know any of this stuff. And then my teacher at school starts seeing everybody wearing them. She's like, oh, did you get permission from the principal? I was like, yeah. I mean, I didn't, you know. Yeah. So like, you know, and I was never raised a liar. So it was just so, you know, because I was embarrassed. Like, if I, if I had to assess it, I was embarrassed. I didn't know what to say. I didn't know that, you know, you've got to speak your truth always, you know, And I, by the way, and I did get caught. And so that's what I learned very early on about being honest. And so I.

The teacher. One day, I even sold to the teacher. So she was wearing the bracelet, and she was in the principal's office. And the principal goes, oh, that's a nice bracelet. Like, where'd you get it? She goes, one of my students. Like, didn't he talk to you about selling them? And the next minute, I'm in the office, and they're, like, sitting me down, and they're like, you said you got permission when you clearly didn't. And then they called my mom, and, you know, and so business was shut down. But I learned.

Yeah, I learned a very valuable lesson very early on at 6. Like, you always be honest. Like, you've got to be honest about exactly where you're at. You know, you can't be embarrassed. You know, so thank God I. You know, that's at 6. And then from there, it was like, oh, I would employ, like, family members to sell, like, the candy bar. I mean, I don't know what it was. I can't even tell you why I did that. And I don't talk about this much with many people, but that's how early this stuff started. Why? I have absolutely no idea. I just know that there's so many people in my family that, like, think outside the box and created their own businesses. Maybe that's it, you know? So that's how we're gonna go.

Were you a college guy at all?

So I went to college. I believe I might be the last of that generation because I'm 40, and I don't necessarily recommend college. I went to college, and I eventually went to go do my MBA in my early 30s. I can't say I recommend it unless you're trying to become a doctor or a lawyer or an engineer, where there's very specific skilled training that comes from a university level.

I, you know, I liked college, and I liked the programs that I did. But I did realize that there was a mismatch between what I was learning in the real world and learning in a university, especially when I got my mba, and especially since my whole background is in digital and Internet and marketing and in a digital world. And I'm like, I was an anomaly in my MBA school. I was literally the only kid, you know, my MBA when I was, like, 32, whatever, 33. But, yeah, it was lonely because, you know, you bring up Facebook, and I remember one professor like, oh, it's just a small bit of the marketing. And I'm like. I was like, egypt's government was just overthrown by Facebook. I don't know what you're talking about, you know, and so I realized that marketing, the way it was taught, and branding and some other things in school. So I was finding its day. It was having its end. It's at the end of its run. And I'm like, oh, you know, I just paid for a very expensive mba.

So isn't that fascinating? Like, you know, because I have kids in their 20s, and my daughter didn't go the traditional college route. She's like, I want the college experience. I'm like, you can go hang out on Mill Avenue in Arizona and get your college experience. You don't need to pay 30 grand for it. And, you know, sending her to, you know, her skill set, which is like, makeup and beauty and, like, best decision ever. So at 23, she's got her own business and she's crushing it. But my son is more like, you know, he's. He's. He reminds me a lot of you. It's probably another thing. He's just such a good human and always wants to do the right thing. And, you know, not in my home necessarily, was it, go to college, get good grades. Like, I was like, be a good human. Know how to serve people at the highest level. Make a difference in anybody's day that you can. Like, that was the things. And always, you know, give it your best effort, like, whatever you choose to do yet, you know, he was a 4.0 student, you know, for sport athlete, and, you know, he's facing this decision, like, what do I want to do? And I remember telling him, and I know you'll appreciate this advice because we didn't grow up with this kind of advice. I said, listen, the only person it affects besides God is me. And I want you to try as many things as you humanly can in your early 20s. You know, educate yourself. If you want to learn about creative writing, take creative writing. If you want to learn about the Bible some more, take a theology class, whatever it is. Just keep learning and trying new things, and eventually you'll land on, ah, this is what it all was for. And that was really hard for somebody like him who's a good boy who follows rules and does the right thing always, because we've been taught the right thing is, you know, you finish high school, go to college, and I'm like, I don't give a shit. I don't care. Like, you keep learning. And there's. There's a bigger education out in the world than there is in a classroom sometimes. Now, I'm not knocking education, but I Believe, like you, it takes on all different kinds of forms, and anything they teach is in a curriculum anymore, unless it's, like, something for medicine, law, like you said, engineering. It's outdated anyway. It's outdated. So.

I love that you shared that.

Being taught, quote, unquote, the right thing and the actual right thing are a very widening gap.

Okay, everybody, just pause right now. Hit rewind. Say that again, because that was so damn good.

Being right, being taught, quote, unquote, the right thing. And the actual right thing, in my opinion, has become a widening gap.

Holy shit. I got goosebumps. That was good.

Well, you know, and.

Part of that is for my upbringing, you know, because besides a business father, I had a very spiritual mother. But both of them were very much in alignment about, you know, my father always telling me, like, I can't come up with the answers for you. You're gonna have to figure them out on your own. And you don't want me to come up with the answers for you. You're gonna have to go into a period of discovery, which that's all of life. And I stress to a lot of people that who am I or anybody else to tell you what is right and what is wrong? I can't. I don't know your soul's path. I don't know what's right for you. I don't know what you feel internally, that no matter what I say to you will never have that same effect as you coming to that conclusion internally. And the only way we can come from that conclusion internally is to move, is to try things. Sometimes we by accident overstep our intuition and think that something very fun and meaningful to us couldn't possibly be a job because of what's quote unquote taught to us. That we ignore the very thing that feels the most special to us. So movement and discovery can also lead us back to that a lot of times. So we kind of have to toss the handbook out the window. You know, the quote, the mythical blueprint. And, like, what you told your son, just try different things, go into discover mode. What you'll actually find is that these little things start popping up that also remind you of things that really feel good. That those are signals that there's something going on there. And that, yeah, you know, nowadays the time we live in is beautiful. Like, literally, you can make a fucking YouTube channel on, like, fixing motorcycles. Congratulations. You, like, now become a YouTuber with 100,000 followers making. With that alone, just the ads, probably like six figures, you know, I mean, it's And I'm not suggesting that for everybody. I'm just saying.

We live in a time where is finally being rewarded and differentiation is, like, celebrated even more so than just in business as, like, from a product or service now. It's like, oh, wow. In fact, if you're not expressing yourself uniquely and really tapping into your core, you're really missing out because of this abundance that we live in now. Right?

So, that being said, I know that you have worked with some of, like, these prestigious brands, like Louis Vuitton, y'. All. Like, and that's just one of many. And, like, helping people brand themselves where they can, like, authentically spread a message and be this more than just like, a shoe or a purse or, like, how did you end up in that space before you completely went off on your own? And you're like, yeah, I'm the brand now.

Yeah. Wow. Okay, I'm gonna see if I can summarize this a little bit. Well, so after the startup. Well, during the startup in my 20s, I was just learning a lot about digital and tech and all that stuff that just led to other opportunities for people to consult with them. So I've always been a consultant. And then when I was getting my. My mba, I met a gal who worked for Tiffany's corporate. She's like, nobody. This is back around 2011, so it's still, like, you know, weird digital, right? Digital and marketing and social and Facebook. And she referred me to a girl at Belvedere Vodka in, you know, under Moet Hennessy, which is Louis Vuitton, Mowatt Hennessy lvmh. And I went out there and I was talking to the evp and he's like, I love everything you're saying. It's sexy. I have no clue what you're saying.

And just a really smart dude. And he was like, hey, can you come help us? But I'll put you on the champagne brands. I'll introduce you to them, and.

They'Ll pay you your consultancy and whatnot, and then you can help multiple people out here. And I was like, that'd be great. So I'm now working brand side, not agency side, from a perspective of how this whole digital world works. But while I was there, I never really thought about branding until I was around Olivier Krug, who is the great, great, great, great, great grandson of Joseph Krug, who created Krug Champagne. And for everybody listening, Krug Champagne is the equivalent of me saying Dom Perignon. Like, it's that level that cost. One of the last true luxury houses it's very expensive, but they're also very humble people. I actually learned, ironically, that a lot of the.

Maisons or the owners and the houses, the luxury houses, their people actually very humble. The clientele and the customers may be eccentric, but they've been around craftsmanship for 2, 300 years. So I learned from Olivier Krug. He taught me. He said, this is a very valuable lesson for anybody listening. It definitely struck a chord with me. And he said, don't be careful not to pay attention to competition or your industry. Competition, like, your customer will always have choices, and your competition is your competition. Customers always have choices. Your industry will talk a lot, and that's okay to know what's going on, but you have to stay in your lane and really work hard for the people that you are building for the customer. The person you are doing this for, love on them. Very hard. Like, show them your work. Show them their. And this isn't, you know, the person really wasn't doing social media. It was just kind of a mantra of, like, show your work. Document it. Show them the craftsmanship, everything that goes into it. Love on them. Get data, get feedback. Do so right by them that they will be loyal to you. No matter how many times they choose another product or service, they'll still be loyal to you. They'll still come back because they know they're having an experience with you. And that really changed my whole thinking of, like, oh, wow. Brands and branding isn't about, you know, this whole, you know, the way it looks. It's having a soul and creating a legacy. It's a company that a great, great, great, great grandson is managing because the legacy is still there. It's a 250-year-old brand, right? So it got me thinking differently. And that's where what happened is I was merging digital and the concepts of how does the tech make your business thrive in a global world online while keeping your messaging and who you are intact? The challenge there with luxury brands is they're not gonna water down the way a lot of other brands will. They have to preserve the very message and the backbone of what, like, built their house. So, like, it's. It's a. It's a. You know, that was always a concern with a lot of luxury brands was how do. How do we make sure that we don't dilute who we are in a digital world, but enhance it? And I love that challenge because I was like, huh? Like, this is where exceptional copywriting and really knowing who you are. This is where the spiritual, like, why do you guys do this? And you hear them talk so deeply in their conviction. And I was like, that. That has to be relayed through all of your digital. Through all of your social. So suddenly I'm pulling these things together of like, huh, it's interesting. It's not really so much about, you know, marketing language. Like, as you know, I did a podcast with a gal that I met there who was on my podcast last week. I met her at Krug. She's the chief branding officer of Audemars Piguet, like, one of the most expensive watch companies in the world. She said last week. She's like, marketing tends to have a, you know, a fakeness to it, but branding doesn't. And because branding is where, like, your soul is. And when you marry that into your marketing, I think, you know, she said, like, you become unstoppable. Right?

Okay, you guys, this is where we're gonna geek out, because what you. What he just said right now, you know, I see so many of us, we're our own personal brand, and we get all.

Up in our heads because, like, oh, is our marketing right? Is our marketing right? It's like, fuck the marketing part. Let's get the branding right first. Let's know. Let's speak from our soul. Let's not water down our. Our gifts. Let's not just because, you know, Susie on Instagram is doing it too. Fuck that. Like, you don't water down who you are. And I needed to hear that right now. Like, that was, like, a divine appointment. Thank you, Matt, for that. And I know that so many of you listening right now, you know, there's a coach on every corner, like you just said, you know, there's a guy in his garage making YouTube videos, making six figures, and, you know, we're getting spun out in our head. Do not water down the gifts that you've been given and the experiences you've had that helped create those gifts. Thank you, thank you, thank you. So when you are marrying that brand, like, soul that is. And this speaks volumes, not only did you get this from your dad and watching him never water down who he was ever, like, it's fucking beautiful to have that kind of example in your home. And then you're in the business and entrepreneurial world, and you're. You're hearing from these people that are saying the same thing to you. It's no wonder, like, when I met you, like, you ooze soul. And now, like, you guys, if you need help with any digital marketing or anything, this. And I don't trust easily. And in the digital marketing space and when we are talking like funnels and Facebook ads and how to get that soul message out to the right people, this is your man. And you're going to hear why, like in a second. Because he's bringing the soul of who you are to this so you don't have to water it down. So it's like you are the person they think about. So as 2011, 12, we're also coming out of a recession and this digital space is like exploding like every, like nobody even. I mean, we don't use yellow pages at all anymore. Everything that we do by experience, we usually ask somebody if they've had it or experienced it. And where do we take that? To social media. Media. Right. And so you're coming out of working with these very high level luxury brands and now today you're helping people. Like not huge brands like that anymore, but like people like me, people like the listeners right now. And really bringing that same soul to the digital space. Yeah. And you can like Matt, let me tell you, you talk this stuff with him and he will geek out for days and days and days. And that's why I love it. He's making me fall in love and he's also making it not scary for me and you guys. Like, I know a lot of you have paid big money to people that fucked you over when it comes to marketing and digital space, and I've been a victim to that too. And I own the fact that I didn't do enough research.

Matt has this way of explaining it to you. So, you know, not only does he do it like he can do it for you and has his team doing it for you, but what I love about him is he's a constant educator, a constant teacher. Anything he puts out in the world is valuable because he's not just saying, let me do it, I'm the fucking guru. Like, even though he is, he'll never say that, but he's more, he's more excited about teaching it to you. So how did that happen? Like your gift of teaching something that is scary to a lot of people, you make it, you make me feel like I can do it tomorrow, which is unheard of when it comes to me in tech.

I, you know, some of it, some of it goes back to the startup days, then the Louis Vuitton days and I can brief it where. So first in the tech, the tech startup days, investors with money or people.

Who.

People with money. Engineers and say we want a website. And engineers say, what do you want it to do? And business people say, we want a website. And then engineers would say, what do you want it to do? And they'd go back and forth because it's two different languages. So suddenly I found myself in the middle. Oh, I need to interpret. They would like their website and their goals to do this, this, this and this. They go, oh, I understand. Would you also like this? Like, let me ask them. And so I was going back and forth. Then during the Louis Vuitton days, my director that I reported to, Carl Holeen, a gifted, gifted business person and just human being in general was like, matt, I love your stuff that, you know, with this tech and the social media and everything, but you're going to be speaking to a room where they don't necessarily understand those things. Help them understand why the investments are so important from a business perspective in their language. And it was one of the greatest lessons. So, like, I would go in and say, okay, you guys are probably, you know, seeing in your budgets, let's spend money on a website. They go, yeah. I go, okay. I guess we're assuming, what's the return? So I started using their language and I realized, wow, like, when we communicate to people in a manner that takes into consideration who they are, where they're coming from, their perspective, all of these things, right? Just like we would learn in interpersonal skills and.

You know, spirituality, other things, right? When we take the other person into consideration, we can then communicate in a way that makes it safe for the conversation that they don't feel judged or dumb for not knowing something and then finding an easier way to help them embrace the inevitable. Because with digital and funnels and sales and automation and chatbots and this whole world that we're moving into and Facebook ads, it's scary for a lot of people, but it's inevitable. That's where we're at. You're gonna, you know, organic. I'm organic. I love my organic reach. But I still need to do certain things with systems and processes and funnels and automation, things like that. I couldn't avoid it.

So how important is that? Like, how important is that? Because I know, like, we've heard. I've heard people, I bet it all organic. It didn't. One bait, like, I get that and that's great. And let's just be real, that didn't happen overnight. That took 10 years, right? For a lot of them. And so moving forward, you know, if we don't figure this out pretty quickly, by the time we have it figured out, Something new will be in front of us, right?

It already is. Yeah.

Bingo. So teaching it. And I love what you said about teaching it in a way that, you know, because I'm all. I'm the queen of communication and speaking. What's in it for them. And in a language people understand. Because you earn credibility and trust, and that is something that you bring to the table in this space that is hard to find.

Right.

So how do you end up, next thing you know, doing all this digital work with people and geeking out on it?

Yeah, well, partially by accident and partially well. So as I, you know, like you said mentioned, I went through a little bit of a transformation about five, six years ago. I went through a transformation myself. I started building things online because, look, at the end of the day, people want to. The people you're gonna trust have done it for themselves.

Mm.

They either have the money in the bank and you trust them as, like, you know, from a financial standpoint, they have. They have experience because they've done it for themselves. So you go, oh, I can physically see what you have done for yourself. Can you help me too? You know, in health and your business, all these different things. That's why you go to trusted people. So I was building all my stuff for me. I started putting me first, you know, five, six years ago and built all this stuff. And that's when people started reaching out, like, oh, hey, you know.

Can you help? And what happened was, so. Because a lot of people, you know, start podcasts. I'm glad you're doing a podcast. So you're perfect for a podcast. Some people feel the pressure to do a podcast because it's like, oh, like, I need another digital channel. It's like, whoa, no, no, no, no. Not necessarily. Like, I didn't do it for that reason. But the podcast, I got a lot of really great relationships. And believe me, in those relationships, you're talking about people like, everyone from major, major companies on down, like, hey, I didn't know you knew all this other stuff. Let's have a conversation. So I think there's a putting yourself out there through organic that helped get there. But then, yeah, people started reaching out. I initially, the way I first approached it, because I had such a branding background and digital, and as you know, this, I thought, okay, I want to help a lot of entrepreneurs with the positioning of their brands online, etc. And I realized that wasn't also niche enough because everybody wants to build a brand online. Like, so I was like, ooh, so you learn by doing that's why I tell people all the time. And I ended up doing, as, you know, a course that, like, I helped 35 different brands out. But I noticed that probably a little bit more than half were in a different state than the other group. The other group were kind of still exploring, you know, how do I create a brand? I was like, oh, like, I can give you all the tools in the world, but that's different than the ones who are like, I have a very specific business, but I don't think I'm running it like, it just quite yet. And I want to understand the branding, but at the same time.

I see people online, and that's the conversation that starts all the time that are doing this, this, and this. I'm like, yeah, one, most people online may not be what it really is. And the ones that are really crushing it, they're doing it because they dove into the details of their business and really try to understand how to have processes and systems and automation. And when you deal with a customer, what's your first interaction? How do you welcome into your world? How do you continue to have them in your world, ones that are ready for you? How do you vet them so they're the most immediate people that you can help? What's the system to do? So once you're helping them, how are you being most efficient, both with your time and theirs? All of those things. Which, by the way, was my own evolution, too, right? So the moment I started doing more of that, I noticed that the number one of the. Actually, maybe the number one thing that most entrepreneurs deal with, right. Is overwhelm. There's just too much now and more than ever before. So the spiritual side of me was like, okay.

What does it take mentally, emotionally, spiritually to, like, dive into the details of, like, what am I really doing and why?

And then from a business and a discipline standpoint, how do we make that easier? And how do we understand all the things that we need and yet still feel like I can understand and work with it, but I don't have to necessarily manage it. But at least I'm more involved in the thing that I'm creating so I can better understand it. You know what I mean? Because you see all these programs online, you see these mastermind. You see all these different things, and it's great. But at the end of the day, like, you still have to be the guy or the gal that, like, knows and understands your Ferrari engine, right? So, yeah, people started reaching out, and I was just very fortunate that I realized parts of the solution. And then I was able to, as I was talking to you before we got on the podcast, as I absorbed a.

Team that is just phenomenal at taking your brain and saying, what's your vision? What's your world look like? And I was like, yes, that. So, you know, so my operation specialist, she can say, what's your world look like? Okay, and then go, now, here's how all the components work together to make your world. Oh, and by the way, at each new layer, a customer is going to understand you or begin to understand who you are and what you can do for them. I. E. Like a value ladder or something like that. Right. So it's like, oh, hi, Tracy. It's nice to meet you. Like, thank you for offering me this potential, you know, solution to my problem. It's good to get to know you. And now you're in their world, or they're in your world, and then what happens after that? How do they know what other things you can do for them? But you have to have a nice little system in place to do all that, or you will become overwhelmed. And that's, I think, why most entrepreneurs struggle, is because all those components working together, it is a nightmare. It is until all of a sudden, you know them all and you go, wait a minute. This is very liberating. But that gap in between of not knowing what to implement to make your dream more. Less overwhelming and more structured.

That time, that implementation, once that's in place. And that's why you see the ones that make it, they preach it all the time. They're like, you just gotta dive into the details first. But where do you go?

I love that. For those of you listening, you can just pause it right now, rewind about four or five minutes, because that was gold. You have to know how to run your Ferrari. You have to.

So I know this last year you lost probably the greatest mentor of your life. And I know because I've had that happen this last year as well. Aside from losing my dad, my other most influential person in my life, I lost probably around the same time as you lost your dad. And I know what that can do.

How. And you and I have had some really great conversations about how our relationship changes and actually grows with them on the other side. Right. How has that. Because I know there's a lot of people that when life happens, they ghost out their business. They. They shut down. And I understand that. I have so much compassion. But you and I both took things up a notch. And not to avoid our pain, we Both had to grieve and heal. However, when you lose some of the most important people in your life, hey, you realize how short life can be, right? That we only get one of them. How did you navigate moving forward in. In an even more up level way? Because you have, like, there's a posture about you that's even greater than the one I met two years ago. And I know a lot of it had to do with this experience of losing your dad.

Yeah, I will. I'll pose this question to your entire audience.

If you were to lose a truly beautiful person in your life.

How would they want you showing up after they're gone? Like, how would. Even if they were still here, how would they want you showing up? They were probably a person that believed in you. They were probably a person that taught you or supported you in any magnitude. That support and love and faith in you doesn't end because their physical form is gone. And I think that while it's a devastating blow you feel, at least for me, I felt my father's energy more than anything. You know, like, I have his desktop computer, his Mac here on my desk. And I went in and found all these files he saved. Articles where I was featured in Forbes Inc. Entrepreneur, different blog posts that I like. He had a file on me and I was just like. And I get chills when I think about it because I'm like this man, like, believe so proud. And he didn't have to. He didn't tell me he had a file on me ever. I mean, I knew he supported, you know, whatever decision I made, but so for me, it's almost like if I fall down and die after he passes or I give up, I can't take forward all the work that we collectively had done up until that point. And like, I. So for me, the perspective was I have to keep going. He would be disappointed if I didn't. Like, then what was it all for? Why? Like, so I supported you, I loved you, I believe in you. I'm gone and now you give up. Like, that's not how this thing works. And so that hit me very hard. So I was able to bounce back, you know, and I was so besides some of this stuff, I'm also. I don't know if I told you, I'm also president of an entertainment company in la.

And that's shocking.

I was speaking with the CEO. Yeah, they put the parties around the world a year. I was speaking with the CEO the other day and he was like, I still can't get over because that's when our relationship began, like, how quickly you were to work while, you know, when your father passed. And I said, well, you know, it wasn't easy, of course, like, I love my father and, like, you know, and I grieved and I cried and, you know, but I know my father and, like, I love my life. I'm not. I don't work where, you know, I work a job where I'm not inspired. So for me, you know, for me, my work is inspiring and it's all part of my life. And for me to retreat from life isn't going to serve what he believed in for me. And in fact, I owe him even more now to succeed because of what he believed in. And then the level up was.

Time is definitely not infinite. We already know that. But until it really strikes as hard. And then what we're doing with our time and what we're allowing the conversations, we're allowing the way we're being treated, the way everything, everything, whatever wasn't already resolved in me internally got resolved very quickly right then and there.

Because, for sure.

Because, like, I don't want to hear it. I don't want to hear your victimhood. I don't want to hear your. And believe me, I'm a compassionate empath. I don't really. I don't want to hear your excuses. I don't. I have seen and done it all, and I have been through all of it. And I went through three deaths last year. Most of them don't even know that it was three deaths that I was grieving. And my father just happened to be the coup de grace, if you will. Right. So.

It shifted my perspective of if I can get through things and constantly take on that accountability of, you know, then that also. That's where the shift happened for me. So even when I talk to people, it's like, listen, I want for you, but you're gonna have to do the work. And that's me carrying my father's legacy of, like, you know, gotta do the work. I can't tell you. I can't. You're gonna have to just go do it. There isn't an easy blueprint. There just isn't. So you better.

I love that you said that because, like, I experienced, like, 2019 kicked the shit out of me, too.

Yeah.

And I still showed up every day. And, you know, for those of you listening right now, there is no measuring stick for, like, pain and how long you stay in it. That doesn't equal how much you love the person. Because, like, Matt Just said, I know for a fact my uncle would have kicked my ass from here to Sunday if I would have just wallowed in that. And not like, of course, feel all the feelings, which is hard. Right. It's way easier to just, like, put the head down and go for it in workaholism, but to feel the feels and show up better, stronger and more of service and love and compassion like you do. It takes a very special person that does the work to be able to do that and to take it next level. And what I have seen since then with you is this even next level of service to really like to help people get their gifts out to the world. And so if people want to learn more from you, which, if you listen to me, I fully, fully vetted this human being.

I trust him with my life. You guys, if you need to learn about scaling and branding and all of that thing, all of the things around that, not only is he going to be speaking here in Phoenix with me in a few weeks, which is a couple. Yeah, like a couple weeks. Right. But he has a full service platform that he can help you with. How can people find you and really do this? Right? Because, you know, if we've got a gift, there's nothing more frustrating, myself included, than having this gift and being weighed down by the shit that can trip us up like tech and marketing and how to really get that out to the world. So how can people work with you, come to find you, listen to the podcast, you'll fall in love with them for sure. But other than that, how can they do that?

Yeah, you know, now, you know, you brought. You asked me earlier too, and it was funny because, you know, I preach moving and even if we're not ready, always with all the components, but I'll give everybody the best way. So there's mattgodesman.com which is M A T T G-O-T T E S M A N dot com. But that's only kind of the world of me. If anybody wants to email me. Mattattgodesman.com Systems are the thing that is getting really tripped up on, like the tech and, you know, how do I create these really well defined, you know, funnels and actually weave it all together and reduce the overwhelm and all that stuff, you can either email me at that email or. And I haven't branded it yet, even though I do own systems over hustle.com and it's being, you know, the site is there, you can just email me@systemsoverhustlemail.com until I do the whole info at.

Oh, you'll have it. You'll have it done in like, 10 minutes.

Systemsoverhustlemail.com if that's for that specific thing, which, you know, I'm sure we know quite a few people in that area, that arena. And then on Instagram, you know, attgodisman or dfhdfmagazine, you know, join in the conversation. I'm always accessible there or in the dm. You know, people ask me questions all the time, and I'm pretty responsive there.

So.

I want to finish with this, because what is the biggest mistake you see entrepreneurs in the digital space making, and what's one thing they can do today to make a big change? Like something small that will make a big change?

Yeah. Can I give a couple things?

Of course. Please do.

So for everybody. That's. I get it. You want to grow Instagram, TikTok, all that stuff. Stop watching everybody else online.

It's gonna throw your game off. I guarantee it's gonna throw your game off. And what you're watching 99% of the time isn't even real. I, by the way, I can guarantee it's not real only because I actually know behind the curtain of a lot of the people everybody's admiring. So we'll just leave that at that. But so create from a place of serve, meaning, like, just show the enjoyment of you having a good time doing what you're doing for this specific and intended.

About. And they just show up. It's an energy, you know, because they are looking for that content and it does get shared. So try not to really watch what everybody else is doing or to try to validate yourself or to try to prove you're worthy of. Enough of the selfies. Some selfies are good, some are good. Like if you're reflecting and you're shining and all this stuff, I take a.

Good selfie, Matt, come on. You do.

You do. And I have a few on mine. I have a few on mine. But then show as a personal brand, show a few more action shots. Maybe, like doing stuff or interacting with people or doing the podcast, whatever it might be, just to welcome into the world more of like, oh, wow, like, it's cool to see her or him talk to that person or work on their podcast or like they're sewing with their fashion line, you know, whatever it might be. Right. And they're getting the materials together. So I think that that's helpful for your content. And then entrepreneurs making. Listen, there's a lot of Resources online, I think there's some really good ones and then there's a lot of not so good ones. You have to really vet the resources as an entrepreneur to get help and don't automatically equate price points as to good quality or service. You really want to see a track record. Also, don't be, you know, there's some. I've seen some really good services online where they were very aggressive and it was not my vibe.

And while I liked some of what they were capable of, the aggressiveness didn't make me feel comfortable. So I'm not going to be talked into something that doesn't feel good. Now. Pushing your boundaries and paying, investing in something is still very important. You have to push your boundaries. You have to invest in your growth like it's money, money in, money out. Right? But, but just know and feel comfortable with whatever service you're using and make sure that they're just very, they're very engaging with you, they're very educating to you and they show you their, their own processing systems and they can, you know, also.

Inspire you to be able to manage it and run it and all these different things because it's just, there's so much information online. There's so quick rich courses and things like that. And you know, you just got to kind of weave through. You got to figure out which ones are good and not so good and just, you know, references always help.

So Matt is obviously the process scalability and systems guy, no question. But he's also a very spiritual man. So all that good value advice you just gave, it's priceless. And on a spiritual side. Somebody wants to build whatever it is that they want to build. What advice from a spiritual sense would you give them?

Oh.

Go easy on yourself, number one. It's gonna take a little bit of time.

Don't guilt yourself for not having all the answers right now. I'm giving you the prologue, I guess. Don't guilt your not having all the answers right now. You couldn't possibly have all the answers. Don't worry about imposter syndrome. You're connected to the thing already that you feel closest to.

Master that craft, really master it from a very internal place because it's going to help you shine externally to the rest of the world. And you know, I think it's important to do to understand your health, to understand your mental wellness. I think it's important to. I don't care if it's meditating for two minutes, show up for two minutes, just do a two minute Meditation and then be done with it that anybody can do two minutes. Because these little things will help you go inside. All your answers are inside. They just are. And it's so cliche. And it drove me crazy to hear that for so long until I'm like, all right, let's go exploring inside. And I think that if we can. If anybody listening can take the time to just slow down, you will speed everything else up. When you slow down, you become present. You can make decisions much faster. You can see the bigger picture much easier. You can spend your time on the things that actually matter or the people that matter. Everything changes for your life when you actually slow down, because internally, you can feel things you hadn't felt before and a better understanding. So when it comes to your business, you'll be able to actually, you know what? These things make sense. All these others don't. I'm doing too much or I hadn't even thought that. This is where I seem to have the most impact with people. And it's fun for me, and I've done it for myself. Wow, I can help in that magnitude. It starts pulling away the resistance that you have, you know, or that you've created from trying to figure everything out by going inside, you realize, like, oh, wow, like, here's how I stay in my lane, or the lane. I create, the lane that I'm driving. Because it becomes very clear as to where you have the most impact and where you can drive the most results and where you can. And you feel good about it and you have experience with it firsthand yourself.

So does that make sense that, my friend, was so beautiful, and I think that was a beautiful way to bring the whole thing together. Because it's one thing to know the process systems, that stuff, but if there's no heart behind it, like, what's the point? And I appreciate you so much. All of his information is in this show notes, you guys. And you know where to find me, and I will make sure you know where to find Matt. He is just a remarkable human being, and you all need to know him. And if you loved this episode, it would mean a lot to both of us to let us know what landed on your heart so we can definitely, both of us, bring more of that to your world. Matt, I love you so much. Thank you for being of service and always giving so freely of your heart and your wisdom.

Thank you. I will end with just one thing. I was told the other day I had a reading done. I was told the other day.

Before you do anything, before you say anything in business or in life. Run your heart through Running through your heart first. Take a step back. Run it through your heart first. It will help you remove judgment. Doesn't matter how anybody else behaves to you.

You will show up as your best self always and you won't be affected by anything anybody says to you when you run it through your heart first. And it definitely helps your business because it's, you know, you're thinking about how what you're doing affects the other side. Your marketing has done it for that as well. So I liked it both personally, spiritually and professionally. But thank you for having me on your show. I'm honored, you know, and I know you're serious about vetting, so.

I totally get it. So I'm grateful. Thank you.

I'm grateful for you. Love you.

Love you too. Thank you.

Thank you for tuning in to the Becoming Bulletproof podcast. If you learned a thing or two from our show today, it would mean a lot to me if you shared it. And tag me so I can hear exactly what landed on your heart. This will help me to bring you even more episodes with the topics and guests you want. Please head over to itunes and leave an honest and loving five star review. If this made an impact on you, you can see find me on Instagram traceyomalley and I have tons of free resources for you@traceeomalley.com as always, if you are wanting to ignite your purpose, profits and build your legacy, it's time to stand on the front line of your life and do the work. Let's become Bulletproof.

Sa.