49: What small businesses should be doing to protect their content with LegalPreneur Andrea Sager

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Welcome to the Becoming Bulletproof podcast. I am your host, Tracy o'. Malley. I'm a mom to millennials, an author, Enneagram expert and multi million dollar entrepreneur, and master performance and business coach. I've gone from rock bottom to building a bulletproof business and life. If you're looking for the unfiltered transparent truth and ethos, an extra kick in the ass, you will discover that here. Each week I'll be bringing you success stories of high level entrepreneurs as we discover how they became bulletproof and created their empire. You'll learn the story behind the glory along with Enneagram inspired truths so you can ignite your own purpose, profits and build your legacy. It's time for you to become bulletproof. Buckle up. Let's go.

Hello and welcome to another episode of Becoming Bulletproof. This chat is going to be fun. And this little lady I'm about to introduce you to, she's little in stature, but powerful and massive in her wisdom, in her knowledge, in her personality. She I can't even believe she's like less than 30. She's 28 years old, y'.

All.

And when you hear the frickin gold she drops on all of us that if you are an entrepreneur, a solopreneur, want to be in business, anything, get your pad of paper out, take notes, or you know, put this on replay over and over and over again, you're going to want to know this woman. She is freaking magnetic. When I met her, we met her through a mutual friend. We're both in a mastermind together. And I was like, who is this little firecracker sitting next to me? Like, I knew she was a mom, but then she opened up her mouth and I was like, oh, this is who she is. Okay, I'm liking this. And you know when we talk about the law and legal stuff, and especially so many of us fall into entrepreneurship by accident, we kind of like go rogue with it. And sometimes that's really, really good because if we overthink it, you know, nothing gets done. However, there is this other side of business that you really need to have your ducks in a row. Especially if you know that you are doing what you are called to do. You have so much intellectual property, you have life experience, you have your process, your methods, your stories that honestly, in the age that we live in today, we see it happen all the time. Copy and paste, copy and paste, copy and paste. And somebody else will slap their frickin name on it. And if they know the right people, you know what they can Take it and run with it. And especially if you haven't, you know, done your due diligence in protecting all the things that are who you are and what you stand for. And so this is what this dynamo does. Andrea Sager is a small business attorney. And wait till you hear this. She was, like, less than a year into working at a big law firm when she's like, you know what? This shit isn't working. Right? Like, and she's only 28, too. So on top of it, she goes through law school, she gets hired. You know, she's doing things. She's like, yeah, no, this is not. This is not what will help people. And, you know, lawyers and car dealers. Because I used to be in the car industry, lawyers and car people get the worst bad rap. Like, people run from us, right? And because we're like, can't believe a freaking word they say. But you know what? This woman is full of integrity. She started studying the law because she actually wanted to help people. And when she was in a position less than a year in and realized that what she was doing wasn't going to help at the level of which she desired, she said, screw it. I'm going to do this a different way. And that is how I ended up meeting her. Oh, I got goosebumps just saying that. Because how bold is that to come from a place of love and service, but take her wisdom and really protect, you know, some of the things that we're doing today that really can make an impact on people's lives and transform people. And so with that, I want you guys to welcome Ms. Andrea Sager with Andrea Sager Law and.

Hi.

Hi.

Thank you so much for that introduction. You're over here giving me goosebumps, making me feel all giddy inside. Oh, my gosh, I'm happy to be here today.

Well, and she's a baseball fan, you know, for the wrong team. But, you know, there's. I can't say that this year her team went to the World Series. And so she went to. And, you know, mine went three years ago. But whatever. Baseball fans are baseball fans, and we love the game and how it treats us all the time, but. Hi. So I'm excited to have you here. So growing up as Andrea, did you grow up in Texas as well?

Yes, born and raised in Pasadena, Texas.

All right, so what was it like to be little Andrea?

I was very busy, always doing something with softball, soccer, basketball. You name it, I played it. Every single weekend was dedicated to some sport. And then when I got to High school, I actually got very burnt out. And when I say every weekend growing up, I mean every freaking weekend at the softball field, at the soccer field, doing this, doing that, with every sport. And then when I got to high school, I kind of got like an introduction to boys and like actually having a boyfriend. And I was like, oh, so I can just like not play sports all weekend. I can just like hang out with my boyfriend. Like, oh, I want to do this. So I kind of, at the time, you view it as throwing away your future for. Especially for sports. Because everybody that knew me knew I was going to softball on a scholarship. For softball, I was going to college on a softball scholarship. And then all of a sudden I was just like, you know what? I'm done. And it broke my parents heart. I'll never forget that. I just, My heart wasn't in it anymore. And I just quit out of nowhere. But luckily, although I quit softball, I started bowling. And my.

I love this fun fact about you. This is. I want to go bowling with you. Like, this is such a great fun fact. Yeah.

So I. I started bowling in high school. And.

I remember something just hit me. I was like, oh, shit, like, how am I gonna get to college? Like, what am I supposed to do in college? Like, I quit softball. Like, what do I do now? So I remember I was like, okay, well, I'm kind of good at bowling. Like, I can go. Maybe I can find a school for bowling. Because I knew, like, bowling wasn't a huge thing in college. So I knew there were scholarships. Most people don't even know that you can get a scholarship for bowling to begin with. So I remember going to collegebowling.com didn't know anything about college teams. Didn't know anything. And I go down the list and I just start emailing coaches and I get like, I start getting these offers, blah, blah. And then I get this offer from this school.

Called Pikeville College at the time, which is a tiny, tiny, tiny town in eastern Kentucky. And something in me was just like, yeah, this is it. Like, this is the place to go. I didn't have a full ride and it was a private college, so it was expensive as hell. So, but, but something in me was just like, this is where I'm meant to be. So I went and I. And I got a rude awakening because even though I was decent, like, I wasn't great by any means. Like. And these girls had been bowling their entire life because they're all from up north where the only thing you can do year round is an indoor sport. Mm. And I got a rude awakening. But they were the best team in the country, So I was bowling for the best team in the country and only bowling for, like, a few years. Long story short, I showed up to Pikeville, Kentucky, and I was like, holy shit. Like, I just went from Houston, one of the biggest cities in the country, to Pikeville, Kentucky, one of the smallest towns in the country. So I was very bored. Almost moved back home a million times. But something in me, you know, you just stay, stick it out. And I ended up joining the Army National Guard when I was there. And that kept me very busy on top of bowling. And I was honestly, I was back to the whole weekend thing. So every weekend I was either drilling with the army or I was at a bowling tournament. So it kept me busy and I enjoyed what I did. And then I met my husband, and he was from Kentucky. My little hillbilly. I love it. He's my hillbilly. And we ended up getting married, and we stayed in Kentucky for me to go to law school. And the plan was for me to be active duty. Actually, I was supposed to be active duty. And then my third year of law school, we got pregnant. And.

Before that, I actually ended up getting the job that I wanted, the big firm job. And I was like, okay, well, this is great. Like, I'm set for life. I, you know, I have the job, so let me go ahead and have a kid. Because I told my husband, I was like, I'm not having a kid within my first, you know, five years of practicing law. So I had. I had one in my last year of school. Perfect timing. It was great start my job. And I'm just like, what the hell did I just get myself into? I remember sitting there the first week, not even joking. I'm sitting there the first week at my desk, I'm just watching these old white males walk by in their three piece suits, and something in my head clicks. Mm. And it's like they have been in this office every single day for the past 40 years of their life.

And I just remember thinking like, that is not what I wanted to be doing for the next 40 years of my life. So almost immediately, I was like, oh, man, how do I get out of this? But at the same time, my husband was active duty while I was in law school, and the plan was he quit his job. He quit. He left active duty when I started working. That way he could stay home with our son and he could kind of transition to his second career. Well, that happened and then all of a sudden I'm like, I don't like what I'm doing. So at first my husband was not happy about that, but I.

Wanted to quit. He's like, just stick it out for a couple years. And I was like, there's no way I can stick it out for a couple of years. And I actually had one moment where I was trying to bring on a client who. And I'm a first year associate bringing on a client. I'm like, oh, I'm a rock star. Like, this is great. They're going to love me. And it was small business client. It was a women's clothing boutique owner. She wasn't a million dollar business, but she was multi six figures. Didn't have a problem paying the fees. She just needed a trademark. And so I thought I was a rock star. And the firm was just like, no, we don't want them as a client. I was like, oh, okay, so you know, what do I do? Because I'd already told this person, like, yeah, absolutely, like, we can get this done for you. And so the firm had told me, you know what, we'll bring her on for this one time. But we don't, like, small businesses are not ideal clients for us. They're not quality clients. And in my head I'm just like, it didn't click for me because I was just like, they're multi six figure business, they're paying the fees. What's the issue? So that moment was just kind of like that defining moment for me where I was just like, this is not the place for me because I love small businesses. I owned a women's clothing business boutique at the time, and that's who I wanted to help. That's who I wanted to serve. So I went back to the client and I said, look.

Don'T sign with this firm. I'm gonna be leaving in a month or two and I'll let you know when I'm on my own. And she's like, okay, that's fine. So. And at the time we wanted to move back to Houston. We had two weeks before I actually started at the firm. We had a miscarriage and it was just kind of like everything had just kind of like gone downhill after the miscarriage. And we just knew like, okay, it's time to get out of here. We were in Cincinnati at the time and we wanted to get back home to Texas with close to my family. So between the time of having that conversation with the firm of small businesses not being quality clients, we decided we were going to move back to Texas. Well, I didn't know exactly what I was going to do. I was trying to find a job here at a big firm, and then was also trying to decide, okay, well, I think, you know, I can make it work if I have my own firm. You know, I have this. This whole network of business owners. So I think that it will work, but you never know for sure. And it was a Wednesday. I remember this. It was a Wednesday, and our house was on the market because we were selling, getting ready to move to Texas. And.

I texted my husband, who was at the. At home at the time, and I said, look, I'm ready to quit. We have enough money to wait back in Texas or to move, you know, to train, Wait until our house is sold and move. He's like, just wait till we have a contract on the house. Because I think it had been on the market for, like, a week. And I was like, okay, I'll just wait. I'll wait. That was a Wednesday. On Friday, my boss comes into my office and fires me. And not do they just fire me. They let me go with a severance package.

Stop it. So what was the reasoning for firing you?

It was not working out. Like, I wasn't happy. They weren't happy. Like, it was.

You're already bucking their system, and they could feel that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're a feisty little one.

And I just remember they were in my office talking to me, and it took everything in me to not show how excited I was. Right. And I remember they wanted to, like, pay me out over time. And I was like, no, I will. Like, you can take me off your books. Because usually with law firms, we'll keep you on the books, give you time to find a new job, keep your insurance. I didn't use their insurance. I didn't need any of that. I was like, listen, take me off the books, pay me everything up front, and we're done. Okay.

Two days after, you were ready to walk in and say, I'm done. And you would have gotten none of that.

Yes.

Holy crap. That's amazing.

Yeah.

So.

And it literally all just happened, like. And that's when we knew, like, okay, this is what we're meant to be doing, because I got fired, got the severance package, our house sold with a cash offer, and we were living in Texas less than a month later.

That is incredible. And, you know, you've said a bunch of stuff here that I think is so, so important. First of all, like, I'm pretty Decisive. And I'm not quite sure I've met somebody as decisive as myself until you seriously, like, knowing, like, when you're playing softball. I also played college softball and walked away from a scholarship as well. Because it's like, you know, and knowing that, okay, but then realizing I have to be resourceful. It's one thing to be decisive and then dealing with the crap that falls out after, but to back up your decisiveness, you have a resourcefulness that most people don't have. Like, okay, let's. Let's look at bowling. And just the fact that you went emailing every coach that you could find is just incredible. To make it happen. And sitting in that law firm within that first week, I've had many jobs where I was really excited for. I thought, this is it. And the same thing happened a week, and I'm like, what the hell did I just do? But knowing that honoring that gut call for you is something that's so powerful, and I'm glad that your husband had you put on the brakes for at least a week or so until the household, which isn't unreasonable. Like, like, he. He's obviously along for the ride with you and your. He must be like, he must love the. That excitement that you bring to the table because there's something so beautiful about somebody that is passionate about where they want to go and. And their mark they want to make on this world. So, you know, I think it's so symbolic that that client that you brought in, that was a small business owner that, like, you knew, like, because you were a small business owner, right? You had done that, so you kind of knew what that took. And, you know, the grit and the resourcefulness and the decisiveness that you have to. Have to be able to make it right.

Absolutely.

And for a firm to say, you know what? They're not a big enough fish for us. It's like a big fu. Is like, are you kidding me? Like, we're all human. We all shit. We all put our pants on the same way. Like, who are you to say in your fancy ass suit that they're not an ideal client? Well, you know what? They're my ideal client. And that's where the wheel started turning in your head, okay, I know I can help them, but how do I make this the business? Right? So you move to Houston, you pack up your son at the time, and you're pregnant. You were pregnant at this point or did you have.

No. Well, we were pregnant. We didn't know yet. So it was like, once we got Back to. Yeah. A couple weeks later, we found out we were pregnant.

Oh, how exciting. So you're back in Houston. Home. You're back home feeling good, surrounded by family, which I know is everything to you. You're Hispanic, and that whole culture that you guys bring. I can only imagine the shit your parents were thinking when you walked away from a scholarship. Like, mija, what are you doing exactly?

100%, I bet.

I bet. So you're back home, you find out you're pregnant. You're starting a new business that you hope works. Your husband's like, babe, I love you. I got your back. Let's do this. And you're like, okay, so what do I do? And I know that your zone of genius is helping the small business owner, the entrepreneur, with certain things that most of us don't even think about when we start our entrepreneurial journey. So how do you start navigating how you can best serve them at a cost that, you know, starting a business is hard, but that you can deliver the value and it doesn't. You don't have to pay these. You don't have to pay for those fancy suits that all those guys are wearing. You can be in your Astros hoodie and helping people.

Exactly. And that's pretty much how I marketed myself to people. I literally told them, like, look, I'm working at home in my pajamas with my dog. You're not paying for a fancy office. You are just paying me to get the job done for you. And that's what I did. I got the job done, and people loved it. And I grew. I actually grew really quickly. Luckily, I had that whole network of clothing boutique owners. And.

Thankfully, because of that whole community, I was able to essentially make a living until we really got our act together in Houston. And I remember. I remember whenever we got back to Houston and I started making money, and I was like, wow, this is. This is amazing. Like, I'm actually paying the bills through my business. Like, through my business, getting this done without having to rely on an employer. So I remember those first months. It was just. It felt so amazing not to have to rely on an employer. And my husband, at the time, he had always wanted to teach, so that's what he did. He started teaching here, and that's what he's still doing. He loves it.

So we were finally both doing what we wanted to do, and it was a struggle actually getting back.

Getting our stuff back together after the miscarriage, because that really hurt.

Did you have guilt feelings that you were working so hard and driving Yourself, maybe into the ground. Did you have, like, guilt feelings or something?

Yeah, I mean, it was all the feelings, like. And, you know, like, I don't know if you ever had a miscarriage or not, but when it happens, you're just like, nothing anybody tells you will make you feel better. Nothing. Like, the doctor says it's not your fault. Like, yeah, you can say whatever you want, but still, like, you're still wondering, what did I do? Did I jump out of bed too fast in the morning? Did I slip in the shower? Did I. Like, what did I do? Did I eat the wrong thing?

A million things are going through your brain trying to figure it all out, to pinpoint what happened. And quite frankly, honestly, it just is something that happens. And I don't think we honestly.

Felt better until we were pregnant again.

And then. Sorry, I'm going off about family stuff now.

No, it's important.

I actually studied for the Texas Bar, and I took the Texas Bar when we moved back, and that's when we found out we were pregnant the second time. And when I was taking the Texas Bar on the third day, I started bleeding, and we thought we had another miscarriage, but we think it. The doctor says it was probably twins, and we lost the second one. So I actually, like, all that was going on with the Texas Bar, so I forgot to submit my application or my essays for the Texas Bar, so that never got graded, so that was just kind of like a waste. But. And then we spent a whole month thinking that we miscarried again. And I was like, this is it. Like, we're just gonna have one child. Like, I'm not going through this emotionally again. And then we found out that we were still pregnant. And I remember the first doctor's appointment. The doctor was like, look, you know, if you want, you have to. Because I had to have another C section. She's like, we can tie your tubes. And I was like, yep, sign me up, because I am done. Like, emotionally. I just. I can't do it anymore. So luckily, we still had Allie, who we ended up having, and now I am just grinding along with my two kids, my husband, and my business.

I remember when I met you. Like, I think your daughter was just a couple months old.

She's what?

Only she's only nine months old now. So I think she was, like, three months old when I met you, which is when you were really starting to amp up this legal preneur, like, membership in a way that you could really help those of us that kind of come in hot and have no idea what the hell we're doing. And you admire so much of the work that we do that you want us to be protected. And that is what I love about you, is, like, you see what we're doing, and you're like, what you have is a gift, and somebody can just come by and take your gift and really do some. Some stuff with it. So how did you decide that that was the route you were going to take versus having your own kind of, like, law firm where you bring in associates and things like that? Why did you think that that was the best way to serve the small business owner solopreneur entrepreneur?

So, quite frankly, a lot of it has to do with me being lazy and not not wanting to keep track of my time. Like, I don't want to think about, okay, how long is this taking me to respond to this person's email? And when I first started my firm, I was pretty much just doing trademark applications. But with that, the business owners that I was working with wanted to use me as their general counsel. They were asking me business questions, other legal questions, and I didn't want to nickel and dime for a question here and there. But at the same time, those questions add up. So ultimately, the membership came about because of the experience that I was going through with clients. Like, I don't want to charge them hourly for these questions, and so how can I kind of meet in the middle? And there was the membership. So with the membership, it's unlimited emails. So I don't. It doesn't matter how many emails you send me. I will answer all of them within 24 hours. And then you get 60 minutes of phone calls every month. You get 30 pages of document review every month, where we review any contracts, any. Anything that you want reviewed, we review that. And then we also now have just added the contract vault, which is about right Now. It's about 30 contract templates that you can just download and use as you wish. A lot of people are selling individual contract templates, and I'm just like, listen, we're throwing it all into one vault. It's all included. And then after all of that, you still get 15% off of any other services that you may need.

Okay, so let's just make a mental note. Everybody that's listening right now, I want you to start following her on Instagram. She lays down some gold, first and foremost. But there's something to be said about breaking the traditional mold of what we have known as a lawyer, a legal counsel.

The fact that she's sitting around in her PJs and an Astros hoodie that she doesn't want to nickel and dime us for every phone call or email. I've had lawyers before and like, you have to think very thoroughly, like, is it worth picking up the phone right now? Because this is going to cost me about 400 fucking dollars and I don't want spend that. And so then we end up unprotected. Like, I just want to applaud you for breaking the mold and doing it in a way that, you know, showing up as you are and for the right reasons. And even if it is partially your own laziness of keeping track of time, you also know that people, like, that's a sore spot for many of us that have had to deal with lawyers or the legal system before. And I want you to know just from me, and I'm sure you've heard this before, that builds so much credibility and trust in the fact that you're doing it a different way that actually serves the greatest good. So I just want to give you mad props for that. So you guys need to be following her first and foremost because, I mean, she gives a lot of shit for free, even on the Instagram, as a lawyer, it's crazy. Like, I love it. So in that vault, you said there's 30 templates?

Yeah, there's about 30 templates right now. And we add, add new ones all the time.

So what are some examples? Like a non disclosure, I'm sure is in there. What else is in there?

Yeah, non disclosure. There's an employee agreement template, independent contractor and model release, wholesale agreement, podcast, guest consent, you name it, it's probably in there.

Wow. And so let's say you have, let's say some online business coach who's like, yeah, I don't have any of that shit. And I know I'm kind of playing Russian roulette and hoping I don't, you know.

Yeah, yeah, we have.

So having sex without a condom, right?

Yeah. I've worked with so many online business coaches, just people in the online business space that's honestly like where the templates come from is what they need. So we definitely have service agreements, privacy policy, terms and conditions, all the things a court, a course agreement, if you have an online course, a membership agreement, all that stuff is in there. Because it.

It'S one thing to, you know, like, yeah, I can draw up this contract for you for, you know, $600, but at the end of the day, I'm working from a template anyway, and it's gonna Take me or somebody on my team 20 minutes.

To fix it up. And don't get me wrong, like, there's certainly situations where we really need to dig down deeper. Most of the time, people just need a template and we know what needs to be in there in order for our client to be protected. So that's why we have the templates and they've been very, very beneficial for clients.

So one of the things I love that you say the most and you know this is easier said than done. So for those of you like, yeah, whatever, Trace, like, just please, if you listen to nothing else, we say, listen to this right now. Like, one of the things that Andrea says is like, the best time to begin working with an attorney is before you've even launched your business. And I know many of listening have already done that. So we're already kind of like, myself included sometimes, like, okay, now we need to go and do this. And I know that we always, I don't have the money for it. You're gonna need the money. If you don't have yourself and your stuff protected, you're gonna end up working at Starbucks if you're not careful, right? Because somebody could come in and take your whole business from you. So what is like, I agree with you. Like, you hire the people that you need before you're actually where you think you've arrived, right? Whether it's an employee, some. Some legal advice, things like that. What are some of the things that are your zone of genius for the entrepreneur?

So definitely trademarks. That is my number one. That is my signature. But honestly, just guiding businesses.

What is the difference between a trademark and a copyright? Because I know that we see the little C with the circle, like, what does that mean?

Yeah, yeah. So trademarks, trademarks are your branding. So anything that identifies your brand, the big three are your business name, your logo, and your slogan. Other things are your podcast name, if you have a course name, if you have a blog that has a different name.

A product line, a certain service. So within my business, my business is Andrea Sager Law, and I have the legal Preneur membership. The legalpreneur is protected. So essentially, anything that identifies your business and then with copyrights, that's all of your content. So I tell people, typically, the content that you're consistently producing, that's protected with the copyright. So your photos, videos, this podcast content here, the blog posts, even the long form captions on Instagram. So if you post a photo on Instagram and it's like, you know, happy day, like that's not protected with the copyright. But if you're right, you know, you're thoughtfully writing something that is protected with the copyright. And a lot of people will just copy and paste captions and they don't understand that is copyright infringement.

Now if, if you don't have your copyright set up, somebody can just come in, copy and paste. So there's really no like anything you can do about it.

So no, there actually there is something you can do about it. With copyrights you are protected the moment the work is created. So the moment you take that photo, it's protected by a copyright. The moment you create that video, it's protected by copyright. But you cannot sue someone unless you have a copyright registration. And if you're thinking, oh, but I don't ever want to sue anybody, I just, you know, we're all community over competition. Trust me, if you're saying that you have never been ripped off before, because every time I hear that the moment somebody's been ripped off, like, oh my gosh, sue them for a million dollars, I'm like, okay, chill out for a sec. But even if you don't have the registration, you can submit what's called a DMCA takedown. And that's the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. This is available for all online platforms and it's a very cost effective way for policing your copyrights on the Internet. And we actually have a whole team, it's kind of like an unknown membership that I also have, but it's a monthly, monthly fee that we charge to basically monitor and take down unauthorized uses of our clients copyrights. And this is, we use this a lot for photographers, fashion designers, people are very consistently producing copyrights like food bloggers, fashion bloggers, like. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. So we are constantly scouring the Internet and instead of, you know, sending cease and desist letter here and there, we just remove it from the Internet. Because quite frankly, yeah, you can send a cease and desist letter, spend a few hundred dollars, but most of the time when somebody's copying your work, it's just Susie Homemaker who started her business yesterday. So she doesn't know and she doesn't have anything to pay as it is. So when we're doing this monitoring for our clients, we keep track of everything. And when we see a repeat infringement, that's when we send the actual cease and desist because that's when it's actually worth it to let them know, look, we're serious here. We, we will sue you if you do not stop ripping off our client. Or if it's somebody such as Amazon or Walmart, that's when it's worth it to send a cease and assist letter right away. So, like, I had. We had a bigger wholesaler within the boutique industry who ripped off my client a couple of months ago, sent them a cease and desist letter, and we got a decent settlement payment from them because we knew they have money and we knew they were making money. They weren't just Susie Homemaker who probably wasn't actually making money.

Mm. So question, like, there are many people that are listening that, like I said, accidentally fell into a business, became something. I am one of those people that had no idea this is what I would be doing. And like, the thing of thing about copyright and all that, like, never even was on our radar, but now they're listening to you right now and they're like, okay, it's time to put on the big girl panties and big boy panties. And I need to make sure that this is something that is protected. So let's say they start the copyright registration. Does that protect them from everything they've done up until this point or from here, moving forward?

So it will protect.

One thing if it has not been published. So if you're a photographer and you shoot, you know, a wedding, you probably have a thousand photos from that wedding. Well, as long as they're not published yet, you can file all of those photos in one application. And if you have a blog, blog posts are one of those that people think they're downloadable, but they're really not. So you can also publish all of those in one application. So for a lot of, like, for my bloggers, we will file their copyright every six to 12 months. So up and every six months, whatever they have, whatever they have published, that's what we will file.

Something you have to continuously do, correct?

Yes. And if it's, you know, if you have an online course. So for online courses, we typically file three applications there because we file one for any text, one for any videos, and one for any photos.

Hmm.

So there's a lot, usually a lot more copyright applications, but it's a pretty simple process. It's not very in depth and it's not. It doesn't cost very much money. Trademarks, on the other hand, are in depth and costs a bit more money.

See, and this is why what you are doing is so important. Because to you, that doesn't sound like a big deal to me. My heart is racing. I'm like, oh, shit, I need to get some ducks lined up. And I Know, I'm not the only one, y'. All. I'm hearing your breathing pick up out there. Like, you're like, oh, shit. Oh, shit, I need her. And that's why what you're doing is so important. Because for you to say it's not that big a deal, and it's in a package that is cost effective for the entrepreneur, a lot more of the gifts that you all have can be. With a big, deep breath, you can put them out into the world. So you said something about Instagram. How do you copyright Instagram and the things we put on social media?

Yeah, so your photos. So there is a fine line there. So whenever you have your photos on Instagram, if somebody uses the Regram app or they add it to Stories, it's not copyright infringement because it's within the Instagram terms of use.

And you're still getting kind of credit for it, sorta.

Well, credit doesn't matter in the world of copyrights. With Instagram, you agree to their terms of service. So other people can add it to Stories, they can reshare it by the Graham app. But if your photo is not originally on Instagram and somebody posted on Instagram, that is copyright infringement. It doesn't matter. If somebody gives you credit, they can give you all the credit in the world, but it's still copyright infringement. And that's where. That's what a lot of people don't know is credit doesn't matter. It's all copyright infringement.

So how do you protect, like, the pictures is one thing. How do you protect the copy that you write? And, like, there could be six degrees of separation, like, I'm the one who gets it copyrighted, but maybe I took a line from, you know, Susie on Instagram and then a line from, you know, this person and this person, but made it my own and packaged it differently. How do you, like, backtrack that?

So we, for the stuff that we monitor for clients, we run it through our monitoring service, and that's how we find infringers.

Most of the time we know how to search for things, but we still run it through Internet service and it finds most of the work for us. And if it's something that it's like, okay, well, there's a little bit taken from here, there's a little bit taken from over here. Then that's where we kind of have to look at, okay, is this really copyright infringement? Sometimes, even though you can tell, like, listen, this person just ripped me off, and they're like, they got that from me. Sometimes it's still not copyright infringement.

Right?

So I have a lot of T shirt designers and that happens all the time. They're like, this person ripped off my idea. I'm like, look, yeah, you can tell they stole that from you. They got that idea from you. But it's probably not copyright infringement. And those are the tough conversations that clients want to bitch at me for. And they're like, what am I paying you for? And I'm like, listen, I don't make up the law, I just enforce it.

What is the biggest mistake that you see newer entrepreneurs, solopreneurs, or even seasoned entrepreneurs making?

Yeah, two things. Number one, photos. Do not use a photo from Pinterest or Google. That is copyright infringement. Like I said, doesn't matter if you give credit. And number two, not doing your research when choosing your business name. Anything that can be trademarked. Because even, and even if you search Google, you search social media, whatever, and you're like, yeah, nobody has that same exact name. Well, that doesn't matter because trademark infringement can occur when it's just a similar name. If it's a similar name and it's similar goods and services and it's likely to cause confusion with your consumers, that's trademark infringement. So if. So my brand name is Andrea Sager Law. If there's an Andrea Sager legal, that's infringement. If there's an Andrea Sager and they're offering legal services, even if it's a different spelling, that is trademark infringement. Any kind of variation there, it's infringement.

What about like podcasts or course names.

Yes. So podcasts names have to be. They have to be different. They have to be. And not even just different. They can't cause. They can't be likely to cause confusion with consumers. That's always a big one. I'm actually speaking, I spoke at Podcast Movement last year and I'm saying speaking at their upcoming conference in February, because people, podcasters just don't know. Like, yeah, even if it's just a hobby for you, it doesn't matter whether it's a hobby or you are making money. If it's likely to cause confusion with another podcast, it's infringement.

How can it, like, how can you say it's going to cause confusion if they're in the same, like, genre as far as the services they provide or. Or is just the name alone going to cause confusion?

Typical lawyer answer. It depends.

I know, I love it.

I knew that was coming up. I hate, I hate giving that answer. But with podcasts.

You know, even Two years ago you could have said, oh, I have this podcast and it's my name, so nobody else can have this podcast name. Well, podcasting obviously is on the rise and there's millions of podcasters out there and eventually names are going to run out. So the trademark office is actually picking up on the fact that you have to specify what your podcast is for. So you can't just say, oh, I'm becoming bulletproof for all podcasts.

And this is how we're actually avoiding a lot of refusals for our clients for podcasting and other things. Because it used to be you could be very general with your description for your trademark, but now you're people have to get specific because there are so many, there's so many more businesses. So that means there's so many more trademarks out there. So you have to be specific and you have to identify. Okay, yeah, this is a podcast for self help, or this is a podcast for brain development, or this is a podcast for eating healthy or business development. So you have to dig deeper and specify exactly what your podcast is for.

Damn, girl, you're good at what you do. I love this. You are dropping so much value on everybody listening right now. And I know there's many of you that are squirming in your seats and I'm just going to tell you right now, you got to connect with her. So that being said, they're going to because they need to. We all need to you in our life. Somebody that we can trust, that we know is like feisty as all. I mean, you heard how feisty and resourceful this girl is. I mean, she turned into like a pro bowler after, you know, flinging around an 11 inch softball for four years. Like this girl made it happen. So having her on your team is something you're definitely going to want. So that being said, how do they find you? What is the process and what can they expect when they join the LegalPreneur membership?

Yeah, so definitely reach out on Instagram. Ndreasager law. You can also send me an email andreasager.com and email is honestly the best way. But if you can't remember my email, just find me on Instagram and we can connect there. So. And I don't only work with clients through the membership because some people are just like, listen, I don't even, I cringe at the thought of memberships. Like, look, no big deal, I totally get it. So we can also just do a trip, trademark or copyright application, whatever you need. We can also just do that so it's not just the membership, but if you sign up for the membership, you do get discount on other services. And then we also have.

More discounts and free offerings the longer you're a member. So after you've been a member for three months, you get a free IP audit. And that's where we actually go into your business, your social media, and we dissect everything that you're doing and we tell you exactly what can be protected. Because for most people, you don't even know what can be protected. Yeah, you have no idea. So we take the guessing game out of it for you. And then after six months, you get a free trademark search. And that's required for any trademark application that we're filing because I'm not going to waste your money. And we help many people rebrand because they don't know that they've been in business for a year and the whole time they've been infringing on someone else. So we do a search, it uncovers a ton of information. And I tell people, look, if you're not ready to file, that's completely fine, but we still need to do the search. Especially if you're a new business, you need to make sure that you're not starting off on the wrong foot. So the search will let you know, yes, you are good to go, you don't need to worry about infringement. Or it's like, listen, we got to talk about a new name here because the name you're using is going to use be a red flag from day one. And then after 12 months, you actually get three trademark applications half off. So instead of that 15% discount, you get a 50% discount. And then if you pay in full for the year, so it's 199amonth. And then if you pay in full for the year, you get one month free and then three, those, all those three, six and 12 month benefits. You get those up front. You don't have to wait.

Did you all just hear that? $199 a month, like that is a 10 minute phone call, maybe with a lawyer. And you just heard all the things that you get for that cost. And you know, many of you say you're a business owner and I'm an entrepreneur. It's time that you start acting like it. And this is part of the process. This is a non negotiable that you have to have in your business. This is way more important than your lattes and your trips to Bali. Let me tell you because, and I know those are Fun and amazing. And, like, that's fun money to spend on. This is not. Lawyers are not fun money to spend money on. I get that, and I'm with you, and I understand that. But when you have somebody like Andrea in your life that you know has your back and is trusting and that you can trust, and if you want to stay an entrepreneur, you must have this in place. And for that cost, you're crazy. And I'm going to call you almost stupid if you don't do it. So there you go.

I appreciate that. No, but see, seriously, like, and that's why I created the membership, because I know, quite frankly, small business owners need more help than anybody when it comes to the legal side of their business. But I also know how expensive it can be. And I've done the whole big firm thing where my, you know, the attorneys over me are like, make sure you take your time on this and make sure you track all your time. It's like, listen, dude, if it takes me 10 minutes to do it, like, I don't want to spend any more time to get it done. So I'm very efficient with my firm because I know exactly what small business owners need. I've been there. I mean, I'm still in your shoes as a small business owner, and I know how much of a headache it can be working with an attorney. So we try to make it as pleasant as possible.

Well, I gotta say, this is the most pleasant conversation I've ever had with a lawyer. So there's that. And I've had to speak with many of them. I don't love that. But you, my friend, are doing such great things in the world. The entrepreneurial space needed somebody like you that is gritty, that is just authentic, full of integrity, and a spitfire, resourceful son of a gun. And I am just so grateful that I can call you friend that you're in my life. And for those of you listening, just go follow her now. Just seriously, this is going to be the most important and best money you ever spend is connecting with her. Trust me, I only bring you people that I have vetted myself that I believe in, that I trust. And she is at the top of that list. So, girlfriend, thank you so much for being here. I learned so much in the last 45 minutes. Thank you. I'm so proud of you first and foremost, and just respect the hell out of you. So thanks for being here.

Thank you so much. I love you.

Thank you for tuning in to the Becoming Bulletproof podcast. If you learned a thing or two, from our show today. It would mean a lot to me if you shared it and tag me so I can hear exactly what landed on your heart. This will help me to bring you even more episodes with the topics and guests you want. Please head over to itunes and leave an honest Update a loving 5 star review. If this made an impact on you, you can find me on Instagram tracyomalley and I have tons of free resources for you@traceeomalley.com as always, if you are wanting to ignite your purpose, profits and build your legacy, it's time to stand on the front line of your life and do the work. Let's become bulletproof.

Sam.