68: Leading, Learning. Laughing, and Loving with the Enneagram Type Five

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Welcome to the Becoming Bulletproof podcast. I am your host, Tracy o'. Malley. I'm a mom to millennials, an author, Enneagram expert and multi million dollar entrepreneur, and master performance and business coach. I've gone from rock bottom to building a bulletproof business and life. If you're looking for the unfiltered, transparent, apparent truth and even an extra kick in the ass, you will discover that here. Each week I'll be bringing you success stories of high level entrepreneurs as we discover how they became bulletproof and created their empire. You'll learn the story behind the glory along with Enneagram inspired truths so you can ignite your own purpose, profits and build your legacy. It's time for you to become bulletproof. Buckle up.

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Hello and welcome to another episode of the Becoming Bulletproof podcast. And we are continuing this series on learning, loving, laughing and leading each Enneagram type. And this week we are talking about type 5 on the Enneagram. The investigator, the knowledgeable observer, the quiet authority. Otherwise known as probably the most introverted type on the entire Enneagram. And I love fives. Fives make me giggle for sure. I love their analytical brains. I love watching them process. They're hilarious. They have a very dry sense of humor and you always, always, always want to have a five in your life. They are like living, walking, talking Google. The five is the first in our series that we're doing that falls into the head triad. So what that means the centers of intelligence. If you've listened or followed the Enneagram for any length of time, you've heard about the triads or the intelligence centers. There's the body, there's the heart, and there's the head. And the five falls into the head triad. So that means that they make most of their decisions, they communicate. Most of it's driven by thoughts, their brains, things like that. And we all use all three. But this type, definitely this is the dominant way that they process, communicate, make decisions, all of it. The type 5 is called the observer or the investigator. And they're motivated by the need to be competent and self centered. So everything that they do kind of runs through that filter. And why they're so introverted. A lot of times they, they only have a specific amount of energy for each day. So because they're such thinkers, they start calculating. They start calculating how much time energy they can put into anything, any person. And so they can serve the their energy, their emotions, their material resources so that they don't ever feel depleted, they don't ever want to be blindsided and be depleted. So that's why they can appear extra cautious. Like I said, as a member of the Head Triad and the head Intelligence center, they aim to manage their underlying fear and anxiety by collecting information. They believe this will actually calm them down, like they're hoarders of information and their own personal energy.

Like I said, they're cerebral and thoughtful. They can retain so much information.

Especially when it's something that they're very interested in. So in the world of entrepreneur land or.

The coaching industry or whatever.

These people are the kings and queens of the niche, right? The riches are in the niches. My friend Tiffany says that all the time. But when they are fixated on a certain topic, they are the end all. Be all expert. Like I said, the walking, talking Google now. If you love a 5, one of the things that you need to understand about them is they really, really like their alone time. And it's not personal, right? One of my really close friends is a 5 and even though I'm an 8.

I'm very similar to that. And there's an 85 connection that I'll get into.

But what I love about Fives also is when you love them, even when they take their time to be by themselves. If you might be a little more clingy or needy, that will make them feel like, oh my God. That might give them a little panic attack because they don't want to be depleted of their energy and capacity to love. Because fives are deeply loyal and committed in relationships. But like I said, it takes them some time to think things through, what they want and how to go about it. But once they make the decision and once they've kind of investigated the situation and where their heart lies in this, they're completely devoted. Once they're in partnership, it takes them a while, but once they've made the the decision and done their due diligence, so to speak, they are all in. If you are in relation with A5, love A5 lead A5 know that they enjoy thoughtful conversation, they do not like small talk at all and they feel connected when they can share ideas with their partner. Fives, like I said, highly value solitude. But quality time with their significant other is just as important for their well being. It's kind of like how they fill up their cup. Even though they're introverted, being around the people that they know they can trust that won't like suck the life out of them. This is really, really important to them. If you love or lead A5 know that the outside world can overwhelm them. And so when they need their space to withdraw and isolate for a while, it's important that the five in your life feels free to take that space when they need it without feeling guilty or being made fun of. Like, sometimes, you know, I'm kind of introverted myself.

Not for the same reasons as a five, but if a five is poked fun at, they don't like that and they'll almost rebel even more in that way.

Like I said, they don't want to feel pressured to show up.

And to be made to feel guilty because they know when they take that time, they're able to show up as their best selves and energize. They appreciate people in their life who draw them out and help them experience the world outside of their heads. And they also feel super connected when they have long conversations with their partner. They don't let many people in. They really, really don't. So when they do, they're super loyal, they protect their energy. So they tend to have a strong sense of personal boundaries. And this goes both ways. This is one of their strengths is they are super respectful for boundaries. So, you know, they, they want it, so they give it freely and they don't intrude, sometimes to a fault. So if you're loving a five, if you have an unhealthier one, these are just some of the unhealthier traits of the five. And if you are a five, I know that you will recognize a lot of this and you've been there. So a five, when they are under stress, they take on the average to unhealthy parts of the seven, which is ironic because the seven, if you know the enneagram at all, is the enthusiast. And they're the most extroverted. The enneagram and still in the head triad, though, the sevens, they don't like to feel pain and hard feelings, so they're kind of the escapist. So when a five is under stress.

When I know I have a five with me or, you know, coaching one or caring about one, when I see them kind of almost look manic like, and I say that very lovingly, I know that they're under stress because that ping pong ball kind of effect that a seven can have, when they're kind of stressing out, the five can take that on. So when you have a five in your life and all of a sudden they're super extroverted and bouncing from thing to thing with love, understand that they are under stress. So when you have an unhealthy 5 retreat into the safety of their own minds, they become withdrawn and isolated. They don't trust anyone else to be capable or competent, so.

They'Ll kind of do everything themselves. When they're very unhealthy, they don't even trust their own thoughts and their own ability to think rational, that they second guess everything. And they can almost feel like to themselves talking to many fives in my life and in my coaching practice that.

When they don't trust themselves, it gets pretty dark for them. When they're unhealthy, they feel they are no longer in control of their own energy reserve, so they become antisocial. Or like I said, they can kind of be bouncing off the walls, but they can become super cynical about the world and relationships.

Even if you try, when they're in a really dark place, if you try to show them genuine care or concern, they might see that as an intrusion. Like you are basically saying that they're incapable. And since that's what drives them, that needing to be competent, this is where it can kind of go pretty sideways. If you love or lead a 5. When fives are doing okay, they are steady and rational. Like I said, they care deeply but are also guarded, especially with anyone outside their partnership or business. I love watching fives in a social setting. It makes me smile because you can tell they're scanning the room. Kind of like who's safe to talk to? Who would I be okay if I got backed into a corner? Talking to.

Fives are comfortable with a partner who is independent and doesn't need them. But sometimes what five needs is somebody who can draw them out of their heads into the reality. Average 5 sometimes expect their partner to understand their silences. And that's why like, if you love a Five, to have deep, meaningful conversations without being overly needy, so to speak.

Because if you understand them and truly understand them and understand that they need their quiet time, they won't feel this pull to show up and maybe be inauthentic.

But when you are loving a 5, sometimes it can be hard to determine if a 5 is angry, anxious, sad, or just simply lost in thought. So that's why communication and deep conversation is really important to a 5. They want to feel understood. We all do. I mean, when we're seen, heard and understood, that's when the magic happens in life. But like I said, they prioritize their independence. So they sometimes do need little bit of help. A sign of intimacy.

Is a 5 asking for help. When a 5 says I need you pay attention. Because it takes a lot for them to say that.

Because usually they will turn to their own research and their own due diligence to find the answer. So when they say they need help, don't take that lightly. Don't minimize it.

Definitely don't criticize them for it. Fives at their best and loving them. This is really, really important because they are a great partner to have. Because healthy fives are wise and knowledgeable, their observation skills are unmatched, and they allow them to be perceptive and very intuitive. So even though they're in the head triad, they have the strong capability to be very intuitive. So they can offer a wise thought or maybe a helpful idea long before anybody else can. And I know that it takes a lot for a five to speak up and give their opinion. Like I said, they can kind of hoard their own information and energy so that they never feel like their reserves are dry. And so when a five speaks up and offers their advice, important and they do know what they're talking about and they'll have a backup. They'll have all the information to back up what they say, too. Healthy fives are open to experiencing a range of connection, and they can balance their need to recharge in solitude with communicating their care for others. When a five is, like, in the sweet spot, they are social, they can be social, and they are not the typical, like, hiding in the corner introvert. When I see A5 engaging in healthy ways socially, it makes my heart so happy because I know the road it took to get there. The trust in themselves to navigate their energy and navigate their resources. It's a big, big deal for a five.

Healthy fives find that the connection they're looking for comes from the romantic relationship, not just their connection with themselves. So when they don't fully rely on themselves for everything, it's really awesome because they realize what a partner can bring to the table and they don't have to, like, keep to themselves all the time. Healthy fives aren't threatened by emotions, and so they're able to live a more fulfilled life with mentally and emotionally close relationships where a five can get into conflict. And if you love a five, lead a five, you are a five. This is important to know so that you can kind of recognize when this is happening and kind of, you know, pivot and get back on the track before you run the. Run the whole thing off the road. Because fives do have a lot to say, believe it or not. Very, very quiet sometimes. But they do have a lot to say, but sometimes they get the reputation of being so quiet, they consider their thoughts and ideas carefully before they share. And if they feel like these will be judged or dismissed, they may not share at all. Like I said, so Fives generally won't say everything they think. But if you know Fives and you know the Enneagram, you know, I can read their minds sometimes, and like I said, I can smile at them and, like, I know what you're thinking right now, it's so funny. They're intentional about what they say, so they may not always be ready to respond to direct questions if they haven't thought through every aspect of a response. And because they want to feel super competent and sure of themselves, a lot of times a 5 may say, I'll get back to you. Or if, like, you're texting them or they might be ghosting you out for a while until they can do their research, right? Because they don't want to come across as not smart, not capable. The other thing when you're dealing with a Five is it's really, really important and helpful.

To not interrupt them when they're talking. Like, let them finish their thought, because, like I said, they are very intentional when they speak. And so if you go and interrupt them, and that's something that I really have to work on because I'm just such an instinctual person and I can kind of, like, know what you're gonna say. And I can have a tendency when I'm on a roll to finish sentences. So when I'm working with Fives or dealing with my five people in my life, really, just listening and letting them finish is really, really important. Fives don't always vocalize their feelings.

So instead, they prefer to separate themselves from their emotional life. They're very compartmentalized because they don't want their thoughts muddled by feelings. They don't want any interference.

They're the best listeners. They really, really are. Unlike the Fours, we're forced to can hold that emotional space, Fives can hold the intellectual space very, very well.

And because they don't always share their own feelings, they sometimes don't express their empathy. Even though they are empathetic beings, we all are. Because they don't always share their own feelings, they can really come across as unempathetic, but they actually. They really, really are. Fives prefer to take space to think before engaging in conflict. So if you're trying to fight with a Five.

They might get quiet or isolate themselves to find the space to think things through and they look for clarity and logic to sort through conflict. Like I said, they want to have all their ducks lined up in a row and have, you know, a full spreadsheet on. You know, it's like a choose your own adventure almost with them. Sometimes they seek a sense of steadiness in their thoughts, but this detachment from emotion can sometimes lead to detachment from reality. And so when I'm working with a 5 or dealing with my fives, I really ask questions that make them feel they don't always love it, right? Because it can be difficult to have healthy conflict because so much of it actually happens on the inside for fives. So because it's such an internal process for them, getting them to speak outwardly about feelings might be challenging. They might, especially if they don't trust you or believe that you're capable, they might just completely ghost you out.

While other types process out loud like me, or actively argue like me, fives often withdraw to a quiet place to think before they reengage and the connection between the five and the eight. So as an eight myself, when I am under stress, I take on the average to unhealthy parts of the five. So I can kind of go into that isolator.

Very skeptical investigator type. And a five, when they're in a growth pattern, take on the healthy traits of the eight. So there's this. There's beautiful understanding between the five and the eight. We get each other even though we're very, very different. We are alike, but we're very different. We understand what that isolation looks like because we can both go to that dark side pretty easy. And.

Why fives kind of look to eights a lot of times and they'll have respect for them is because when a 5 is growing, they can step into that using their voice, speaking out, having a level of intensity. And they can use that intensity without fearing that they're going to deplete themselves. So it's a beautiful thing when fives and eights can find each other and they're more in the healthy range. There is a mutual respect. For sure.

Fives tend to be super considerate, which is one of their strengths as well. So their method of working through conflict feels like the most caring way that they can approach it. Their approach can feel inconsiderate, however.

It can feel inconsiderate if you don't understand it. But when you understand fives and know what they're all about, you realize that they really are a good ally to have in your corner when it comes to intimacy in fives if you love a 5. Fives desire emotional connection. Even though they may not seem that way, they do desire that emotional connection and intimacy, yet they find stimulating conversation, like their foreplay, so to speak, and mental connection for them, like the mind fuck, is definitely a big deal to them. That is sexy to them. Somebody that can hold a deep conversation is really, really important. And when they feel emotionally and mentally connected with their partner, they can find the right headspace to be, you know, physically intimate. But they have a hard time getting out of their heads and into their bodies. So fives can feel like they can't turn off their mind. So mental connection is going to be really, really important if you love a five.

For those of you that are fives, you may tend to isolate yourself when you feel overwhelmed. And I want you to know that I see you.

When you think about.

How much you care about your partner. So if you are five and understand that your quietness that you tend to isolate that your need for space, that your partner is probably not like you. And communicating with them, what that's about is going to be really, really important. Letting them know that you care about them with your words and action. It's going to be important to build connection with your partner by inviting them into something that you can enjoy with them.

I know that that seems kind of, like, scary, and I just heard all the fives out there going, oh, I want my alone time. I don't want to invite anybody into my solitude. I know it sounds scary at first, but it will build a sense of connection that will sustain the relationship, and it will also allow your partner to really understand what makes you tick. And if you are in a relationship with a 5, you know that you're probably familiar with their need to back away. Please don't take it personal. They need time to recharge, to be them that to be their best. But that doesn't mean they don't love you.

I'll say it again and again. Avoid pressuring them because that can cause them to feel overwhelmed, which will perpetuate the issue and they'll retreat even further. So give them space. And if you want to pull them in, invite rather than demand, that is ask permission. Invite them in. Invite them to connect. Most fives have felt like misfits in the world, so it can be validating to feel that you want to hear what they think and feel. Asking their opinion on things and what they think about things is really appealing to them. Ask what they're interested in and learn from their expertise. Even if you're not interested, quite honestly, in the topic. A 5 will feel loved if they feel you're genuinely interested in their thoughts. Now, if you lead a 5.

They are the person that lives in their head. Like I said, they're called the observer or the quiet specialist. They focus on information and data and feel most comfortable when they're engaging with people on an intellectual or mental level. So A5's attention automatically goes to data and facts and how to produce results through collecting and analyzing the best information.

While the five is all about examining human interaction from a safe distance, maintaining boundaries and relating to people through knowledge rather than emotions or actions is what they're all about. Like I said, they're the biggest introverts on the enneagram. So A5. A5's programming says the way to stay safe in the world is to maintain a certain distance from people. So if you're working with A five, you know, this seems like, how do you lead A five? If they want to be by themselves all the time, how do you lead them?

What's going on with a 5 is usually they'll report that early in their life they were either intruded upon or neglected. Maybe their boundaries were not respected by others and so they developed this need to protect their private space. Or maybe they weren't given enough of what they needed and they had to learn to get by on their own with very little resources. And so that's where like this hoarding of energy and information comes.

Sometimes they've had a history of dealing with other people's drama or emotional crap. And so learning to withdraw and finding a sense of safety came by detaching from their own feelings. So they pay attention to their own thought processes and getting that information. So people who lead with a type 5 style automatically attend to their strong needs for time and space that they have room to think.

They're super self sufficient and autonomous. You give them a job and they will say, great, thank you. They'll go off into their own little corner, their office, out in nature, all by themselves. And they will go somewhere where they have no intrusions.

And where they won't be interrupted. They will, they will guard against all of that from the outside. And they're super quick to read the signs of possible disruption. So if they are going off to work on a project, let them be. It isn't personal. They are. They aren't the best to do collaborative work with in a larger group. Like one on one, they can do okay.

They're not group workers, naturally, but you Give them a task and a specific.

Goal and it's very specific topic, they are the expert. So how the five sees the world in like the entrepreneurial world or the business world.

They look at the world in terms of interesting things to think about and get fascinated by. And if we're talking about laughing with the fives, my favorite thing to tease my five friends about or the fives that I coach is if like I can see a light bulb go off in one of our deep conversations, I'll look them straight in the eye because I can see like you can see the wheels turning in a five. It's very cool. And I will even joke with them like don't stay up all night long going into the Google black hole on this topic. And sure shit, when I check in with them the next day, that's exactly what happens.

Because they want to know everything about anything they're interested in. And that's what I love about them. Five leaders tend to look for causes they can support and find real meaning in because like I said, they will know the ins and outs of it and they are able to speak freely and passionately about things that genuinely interest them. So they lead by being the intellectual force behind making an impact related to any effort they believe in. But a lot of times, like I said, they'll be the behind the scenes person giving the information to maybe the three that's out on the front line or the eight that's out on the front line or any of the other types that are like super on the front line. A 5 doesn't necessarily love that spotlight, but they like to be that intellectual force behind the scenes a lot of time. Doesn't mean a 5 can't be on the front line because they can. Because when they're in a growth pattern, they can take on that justice seeking, intense eight, right. The core characteristics of a five leader are the ability to access and assess information very skillfully and with a lot of interest. They're super objective because they can separate emotions from thoughts very easily. They have this ability to be super neutral when evaluating or communicating about a situation. Another one of their strengths is focus on maintaining appropriate boundaries since they have such strong boundaries. They are those that give and respect boundaries. So they're super trustworthy with respect. There's somebody that you can definitely be, they're definitely somebody that you can have as a confidant and know that they're kind of vault like so to speak. They're super intellectual and thoughtful obviously because they, they really jive being on that cognitive or mental level of things. They love gathering information. They're super detached from emotions. So this can be really, really good in leadership because they don't get sucked into drama. And like I said, they can be objective. They're super private and modest. So you don't have to really worry too much about A5's personal life getting in the way of their business.

Most of the time, right? As long as they're in the average to healthy range. So because they're naturally shy and introverted, they tend to be uncomfortable in the spotlight.

And like I said, they like to work from the background.

They have a tendency to compartmentalize, which this is a really good thing when it can, you know, be about business and time management. So whether they are ideas or people, Fives like to keep things in cognitive file folders so they can exercise like a sense of control of what they know and what people know about them.

What fives are really good at is gathering. So if you're leading a five or you have a five on your team, this is really. These are the jobs that they want to do because this is their superpowers and where they will show and where you will absolutely bring out the best in them. And if you're a 5, these are your superpowers. Don't try to go and be like a three. Don't. It will feel like torture for you. And I know in business because the threes are so out there and my God, do they get shit done. I see a lot of fives trying to be like a three, and it's pure torture. So you fives listening or those that lead A5, these are their superpowers. Gathering and evaluating information. Give them that they excel at finding all the lost facts. Like they're the researcher. I want a five in my corner. Cause I hate doing the research. Just bottom line me. That's me, like as an 8, just bottom line me so I can make decisive, quick decisions. Having a five in my corner that I know has been diligent about the research, Fucking brilliant. So if you have a five in your corner, I on your team, this is their sweet spot. They have intellectual understanding and vision because they live in their heads. They have really excellent heads. They are the analysts. They naturally take the emotion out of everything and so they can contemplate things thoughtfully and evenhandedly. They give people the space they need to be themselves so they don't try to mold anybody into being something that they're not. They like having a lot of personal space so they naturally Offer that to others. And they want to not pressure people into being something that they're not. Because that's one of the things that fives really guard themselves from.

Self sufficient, autonomous, independent. You never have to check up on a 5 to see if they're getting crap done. They feel comfortable actually working alone and function independently, probably better than any other enneagram type. And so they don't need a lot of supervision. And unless you're an egomaniac control freak. That's why fives really like me, because I'm not a micromanager. I'm like, sure, do your thing. If you're a micromanager, fives will not like you at all, just FYI. And one of the greatest superpowers of a five is their humility.

They tend to be shy and are usually uncomfortable in the public eye. And so they don't seek that recognition or affirmation or the atta boys or the atta girls from others. They don't need to be the center of attention. And I'm not saying that that's a bad thing, you threes out there. But they're motivated by learning and knowing. And so they do the work for the meaning. When they find meaning in something, that is what they're motivated by. So if you're leading a five, loving a five, the strengths in them to leverage. And for those of you that are fives, this is, you know, this is your superpowers. And really master these. Because when you can master your superpowers, you'll naturally be able to pick up other things. But again, don't try to be something you're not.

Leverage your ability to make and maintain good boundaries.

You could teach this. You could teach this to others. Because we all know there's a lot of people out there in this codependent society and in a what's in it for me? Society that you can become the expert and really modeling what good boundaries look like. Your strengths to leverage also are that intellectual curiosity and enthusiasm for knowledge and ideas. You have that childlike quality. Remember when we were kids and there was no stupid question? I want you to harness that. Like, I love being around fives. They ask really great questions because they. Especially if it's something they're interested in. Like if they don't give a shit, they've checked out. But if it's something they're interested and you see them actively asking questions, pay attention and leverage that because they're on to something. If a 5 starts asking questions, know they're onto something and Something fucking brilliant.

Your objective thinking, you can think outside the box because you do take the emotions out of it. Even though you know people are make decisions based on emotions and feelings, you can have the thought process behind it nailed down. So where somebody like me or somebody in the 2, 3, 4 range of types where we're instinctual and emotional.

The objective thinking of that five can be a strong asset in the process. Behind the emotions, their professionalism and modest. And they're super modest. So because they don't like all the entanglement. I know that's a big funny buzzword right now. They're highly sensitized to behaviors that are of the most professional conduct. So you never have to worry about usually a 5 getting inappropriate or saying shit that's like gonna derail a company, a team, things like that. Because they think so thoroughly. You don't have to worry about PR a lot of the times and being politically correct with the five because they just, they're so thoughtful.

They're the content kings and queens, especially on subjects they know.

I am so blown away. And I admire five so much with their content expertise because they hunger for knowledge and love learning, it often leads them to accumulating large amounts of expertise about specific fields of study. So like five in the entrepreneurial space can really help people with niche training and you know, people's zone of genius. And like I said, I have very close people in my life that are fives and they help me constantly with this. And because I am all over the place sometimes, I am so grateful for the investigator, the observer. Lean into them. If you're a five, you have the opportunity of tapping into the six wing or the four wing. So you can have like that individualist, creative, artistic, musical side. You can also be that troubleshooting person as well. So you have access to both those wings, which is amazing because you get the best of it all. You get the best of it all and you know, having that growth pattern being that 8, that decisive world class leader capabilities. Even if you're a more introverted five, I want you to know that you have the capabilities, the competency, the wherewithal, the energy to really step into your power. You really, really do. You don't have to hoard it all. Lord knows we can't have you hoarding all that beautiful energy and information from the world because we need you. We need you Fives out there. And if you love lead, even giggle with a five, embrace them for their knowledge, their wisdom, their.

Capacity to really bring such value to your life. And if you don't even know what the hell you are, you don't know what your partners are. The people that you lead are. This is what I spend my days doing. I love helping people, individuals, businesses, organizations tap into their genius. Like when I am working with a 5 and actually encourage all of this. It's like you just lit up the Christmas tree. They are so excited because you want to step into what comes beautiful to you, what is natural for you and what you're mainly motivated by. And so if maybe you're unsure about your enneagram type or you think you're onto the type, but it's not landing and you're not integrating it in a way that's making it useful as a beautiful tool. Reach out to me. You can find me on Instagram at traceyomalley. You can go to my website@traceyomalley.com, go to the Work with me section. This is what I do all day long for individuals, families, couples, businesses, organizations. My goal is to have everyone be their very best version of themselves, be on their path that they can lock into their genius, their zone and be part of a very cohesive team, not be anything that they're not and have a hell of a lot of fun and fulfillment doing it. So reach out. If you have a business and you need team development, this is my sweet spot. I love bringing groups of people together and laying out exactly who's in the room and how to make your team, your business, your organization, freaking bulletproof. So reach out. Until next time, here's to be coming Bulletproof.

Thank you for tuning in to the Becoming Bulletproof podcast. If you learned a thing or two from our show today, it would mean a lot to me if you shared it and tagged me so I can hear exactly what landed on your heart. This will help me to bring you even more episodes with the topics and guests you want. Please head over to itunes and leave an honest and loving five star review. If this made an impact on you, you can find me on Instagram @tracyomalley and I have tons of free resources for you@tracyomalley.com as always, if you are wanting to ignite your purpose, profits and build your legacy, it's time to stand on the front line of your life and do the work. Let's become Bulletproof.