EP 370: The Enneagram Hotline - Stepping out of fear and going from worrier to warrior with SP Enneagram 6 Brandi Gilstrap

I am so excited for this episode. It is one of the Enneagram Hotline episodes where you get your questions answered about the Enneagram and specifically around your type or the types of people that you love and lead. And today I bring on my dear girl Brandi, who is a self preservation enneagram 6. She participated in a retreat I did a few months back and she came with some amazing questions. When it comes to entrepreneurship and relationships that I know each and every one of you will find so much value in Whether you're an Enneagram 6 or not, I guarantee you love or lead one. And the Enneagram 6 was one of the ones that I probably misunderstood more than anyone until I really dove in to my work and integration of the Enneagram. I know that you will absolutely find so much value in this, so jump on in and take a listen.

Okay, I know you may have heard about the Enneagram or someone told you you need to know all about it. So here you are. But what the hell do you do with it? Great news. You are in the right place. Lead with the Enneagram is the show where you will actually learn how to use this incredible growth tool and apply it in all areas of your life, personally and professional, professionally. Hi, I'm Tracy and to be honest with you, I was a skeptic of the Enneagram before I started to actually integrate it into my life. In fact, in true enneagram 8 style, I told my therapist to F off when she wanted me to dive into it well over a decade ago. Now that I have more than a decade of experience using the Enneagram and working on myself in my family with those closest to me, building my own bulletproof leadership sales teams with one on one clients, couples, leading workshops for top Fortune 100 executives, and speaking to large audiences all across the globe about this powerful tool. I've got the proof and deep understanding of how to help you implement this into your life instead of it just being some fun thing you heard about. The Enneagram can be a complex model, but with me as your guide, I will show you how to first lead yourself in a powerful, effective and compassionate way and then help you lead others that way in your life as well. This podcast will have powerful conversations with guests, live typing sessions, and as well as solo episodes of breaking down dynamics of the Enneagram and how they impact your life, career and relationships. So now let's dive in.

Hey Brandy, I'm excited to have you on because it was, gosh, maybe a few months ago that we spent time together as part of a retreat. You did an in person retreat with me. And I remember. I think you were the. Were you the only six, or was there. Yeah, you're the only six, of course. And I remember when I first met you, I could tell because I had a list of everyone. And, you know, I knew everybody's Enneagram type the minute you walked in. I knew you were the Six. I just felt it. I felt it. And, you know, one of the cool things about the Enneagram is, like, once we have this information, there's unlimited possibilities on how to integrate this. But it's just like anything, you know, information doesn't equal transformation. And for a lot of people on the Enneagram journey, they have this aha moment. Like, oh, my gosh, I feel so seen and understood. And then there's the holy shit, what do I do now? Moment, which is why I love doing these hotline episodes, because it's where you get your real life integration questions answered. So, Brandy, what was your first experience in that understanding that you're an enneagram6 and what that meant for you?

So I think I found out I was an enneagram6 a couple years ago before your retreat, and I felt like, very seen so working in corporate and then helping my brother run his business. He always used to say to me, like, he's an 8 on the enneagram, and he's like a big dreamer. He'd always say, like, you're just such a. Like, you're so negative. Like, I don't understand. And he was almost, like, overly positive. And we were both really unhealed when we were working together in business. But I remember really being triggered by that and being like, well, I'm in personal development, and I'm trying to be a better person, but, like, I'm not meaning to be negative. And when I took the sick. The test and found out I was a six, I was like, okay, I just see things as they are, and sometimes people see things better than they are. And I can use that to my advantage by saying, hey, like, this is just how my brain works. It wants to solve problems. And I'm not trying to, like, on your parade, but I'm just trying to tell you how it is. And my husband's a 7, so it helped me work really well with him as well, because.

Right.

So he's like my brother. Even though my brother's an 8, husband's a 7, they're very much up in the air sometimes. And I'M just so practical and logical. It took me from almost shaming myself of, like, the kind of person I am to use using that as, like, a tool. Like, this is really freaking great that this is the kind of person I am for my family, because if not, we would all be running around like chickens with our head cut off. So it was a blessing. But then when it comes into entrepreneurship and having my own business, sometimes I do think it's a curse too. And it can be really triggering to be like, why do I have to always see things as they are? Like, because sometimes you have to see things better than they are for a while. So it's been an interesting dance to use it and to figure out how to best grow with it.

I got to say, the Enneagram, when I was really understanding it, I think the Six was the one I misunderstood the most as far as.

And.

And I'm an eight as well. So, like, your brother and I've been in relation with Sixes and like, God, you are so negative. And I get that. But once I understood what the motive was behind that, that you need certainty that you have to understand the worst case scenario so that you can be bought into whatever, whether it's, you know, you know, a relationship, a business, practicality, anything like that. Once I understood it wasn't personal and you weren't trying to control me with your incessant questioning, that's when I was like, wow, these people are magical.

Yeah.

So you have a few questions that you wanted answered in the last few months that you've really spent time with this information. Like you said, you've known you're an enneagram6, but, like, you know, being immersed in it for a few days was like, oh, my gosh. Yes. And I love that you said that. Like, for each Enneagram type, your superpowers are your superpowers. And those very things can be the kryptonite in your life if you don't know how to leverage them or compassionately see them.

Yes, 100%.

So what is your first question that you have for us here on the hotline?

Okay, well, before I say that, I want to say also finding out the Triad.

Is that what it was called, the Tri type? Yes.

So that was a game changer because I didn't know that before. Before the retreat. So we'll have to talk about that too. But yeah.

So for those of you listening for. For reference, she is a self preservation enneagram6 with the 6 to 8 tri type, which ironically, even though she's a 6 and I'm an 8. We have the same tri type.

So. Yes. Yeah, that's the whole thing. Okay, so my first one was, what is the biggest challenge you see when entrepreneurs are Enneagram Sixes? And what's the upsides of that? And how can I leverage that to kind of value certainty less and enjoy the journey more when it comes to doing something that literally is the opposite of safety and security and certainty?

Well, like the thing is, is your, your gift of safety, security, troubleshooting, thinking of worst case scenario. I say this all the time. Everyone needs an Enneagram 6 on their team.

Everyone.

Because like me and your brother, we will go run into a burning building and not even think twice about it. In entrepreneurship, in relationship, literally a burning building and not even think twice about it. And the six, like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Have you thought about this? Have you thought about this? Have you thought about this? Have you thought about this? Now where. Where that is really good is when you can preface so what I've taught Enneagram Sixes before, you kind of go into the what about this? What about this? What about this? Because if you get somebody like me or your brother, we're going to think like, you don't think we have this handled. And then, and then we'll almost like rebel against you and make you feel more unsafe, more unseen. So what I usually tell an enneagram 6 is before you fire hose us with the incess questioning, which is your gift, because there are many things I don't think of. And thank God for Enneagram Sixes to bring a lot of. To my attention. But knowing your need for certainty and knowing maybe the person in front of you, especially the two men in your life, you know, your, your brother and your husband, before you kind of come at at them with the question, say, listen, I'm all in here with you. I believe in you. I trust you got this, and I have a different perspective that will keep us all in a line, safe, legally. Okay. You know all the things. So I just have a few questions and as long as you answer them, like, let's freaking go.

So make them feel like we're on the same team.

Yeah. And that you're questioning isn't because you don't trust them or believe that they have it, especially with an 8, because the 8 loves to be strong and powerful and they don't want to be seen as weak. And sometimes when the questioning comes, it can make us feel like that, even though that's not at all your intention, and that's the Eighth's own to deal with. But how you can help prevent that is by prefacing it. Like, I got questions. I got lots of questions. And as long as you answer them like, we're going to move forward now, on the flip side of that, you actually have to move forward.

Right.

And sometimes you're not going to have your questions completely answered. There might be half answers. And this is the constant journey for an enneagram6, is to move forward, have as much information as humanly possible, and you can hold both at the same time. Be okay with a little fear that moving forward into the fog a little bit, knowing that you're prepared enough, that even if something blindsides you that you didn't see coming, that you have enough troubleshooting and you're resourceful enough, and you have so many tactical plans in your head that you'll be able to pull one out of your ass and make it be okay.

Yes, that's accurate. Yes. So when you say that, like, you're so right. Like on a team, a freaking crush. Right. Like, I really do, because I have. And so something that my brother said, which he's probably listening this episode because I'll share it with him, so sorry if it triggers them. But like something that he always used to say is, like, sometimes you're supposed to be a yin and a yang. Like, there's a Tony Robbins and a Dean Grazioc sometimes, like, maybe you're not supposed to be this, like, entrepreneur. Like, that's me to carry it. And like, because you do so much better, like, with the planning and the strategy and not the. And it. And it kind of hurts because I'm like, there's some truth to that because it is a lot easier for me to plug into someone's business. But then I'm like, that's not the life that I want to create. That's not what I desire. That's not the vision. Like, I'm coaching people and it's real, but it's not at the level I want it to be yet. And so it feel like a lot of. Like this. Oh, yeah.

I love that you brought this up. Because yes, Sixes are great support, like COO kind of people.

That's what he's right.

They are. There's no doubt about it. And you absolutely can be a CEO.

Yes.

However. However, there's a catch. Just like with everything, you know, I am a visionary CEO and I can play well with others. It's not necessarily my strength. Right. So I have to grow into that. That requires vulnerability on my part, which doesn't come naturally to me. Right. I can do it, but it takes a lot of mental gymnastics and building this emotional muscle. Same thing for a six in being the CEO. Yes, you're. You're born to be COO material. Like, nobody better, honestly, nobody better than a six to handle that. And yes, you can be a CEO, but you will have mental gymnastics your whole life about it. And that's okay, literally, because that's where you grow. Because if you remember when we chatted about like you being an enneagram 6, like, we're more than just our type, right? We have our growth number and our stress number. And if you remember, your growth number is the enneagram9, which is like the Yoda of the Enneagram. And the nine has the ability to see the perspective of all of us and trust. That's where faith lives. So even though you can go there, you don't live there necessarily like a 9 does in that, like, it's all going to be okay. It's all going to be okay. It's going to work out for our greatest good. Like a nine typically can. You can go there, but you won't live there. So you'll have to use your wings a lot because left to your own six ways, you will err on the side of operations. Operations, operations rather than the big vision. And so your wing support and your growth number. Support. So as a six, you remember you have the five and the seven as your wings. And the five is the gatherer of information and intel, which you don't have a problem with doing that usually self preservation six have a lot of information, but that seven wing. And thankfully you're in a relationship with one that I know is a pretty healthy seven that you have a physical version of what that might look like. But your six by default will want to go into safety, security, comfort. I need more information. I need more information. Which CEOs sometimes have to blindly make decisions and be okay with mistakes. Sixes don't love it.

Can you.

Can you do it? Hell yes. Hell yes. But you're going to have to really rely and go into that nine zone in order to. For you to operate like a CEO, though, just like for me to do what I need to do best, I have to go to my growth number two, which it's not comfortable there, but I have to.

Yeah, that's so good. Because just the fact that you're talking about the trust and the faith and like Leaning more into my seven is when I actually feel best in my CEO role. But when I lean in my five, I just want to, like, go get a job.

I'm like, yeah, because that, that, that good thing about five is you get the facts. The bad thing about the five is, like, you. You're overwhelmed with information and then you feel more paralyzed because there's all these different options which confuse you even more, which makes you have self doubt even more. And so you got to go to that 7 zone, which is like, fudge it, let's go. And we'll figure out and. And one of my good friends who's a five said this two weeks ago when I was with her. You can either make it a crisis or make it an adventure, and the choice is yours. Oh. And so for an enneagram 6, like, you could live in the chaos and the crisis of your squirrel brain, or you can say, well, what's the best that could happen if I move forward? And my love, you've had enough experience in this lifetime. And you're a mom as well, which is like the, the ultimate plot twist. And like, there's no certainty there. Right. And, you know, going through like, well, you have enough experience in your life to show that even on the other side of, I don't know what the hell's going to happen, but I'm going to move forward anyway. You've seen how it works out pretty damn well for you. Yeah, every time. So when you're in that fear remembering that, and I have to remember that too, with vulnerability. Right. When I want to just, like, go into my cave and like, never see another human being again, it's like, well, where's my evidence that when I have stepped into that, that's worked out okay?

Yeah.

So the good thing is being a six, you have a big bank of memories and troubleshooting kind of things. And even when you got blindsided or even when something went away that you didn't expect, how did it work out for you?

I always figured it out because that's the one thing I'm pretty certain about is like, I'm always going to figure it out. So I should spend more time in, like, figuring it out and then less time. And like, what if it doesn't work out? Because if it doesn't, I'm freaking. Like, that's the ones. I'm like, I'm expert. Like, I'm gonna figure this out no matter what.

And the thing is, is for you and a lot of Sixes, you guys really beat yourself up. Once the anxiety and fear spiral come, then the shame hits come. It's like, God, who, who the hell am I to do this? Maybe I should get a job. Who's gonna listen to me? I don't even have my together. How am I going to lead these people? Like when the shame spiral comes, like this is a pause time because shame will keep you stuck in that cycle even more. And this is where compassion, Compassion and not judgment. Yeah, not judgment. And that's a muscle you have to build, right? Because we, we pull out that shame stick like it's nothing else. But I know if you, you've got what like a 15, 16 month old child.

She's 20 months now.

Oh my God. So it's been four months since we've seen each other that I know you would never look in her face and shame the out of her truth. And so before you pull that stick out on yourself, I really want you to look into like the eyes of a child and say because that's, that's who's running your show is your inner child anyway. And so when I want to kind of annihilate myself, I kind of try to remember who's running my show here. And it's a beautiful four year old little girl who's just scared of being hurt or for your, your case, making a mistake and having the worst happen. And that's when you kind of like, okay honey, I know you come by this innocently and I know like your fears, I'm not minimizing any of them. But you know what, we're going to go forward. I've got your back and we're going to do this. Whatever comes, we'll make an adventure out of it rather than the crisis.

I love that I'm writing that down. Adventure out of it. I love, I love. Because that's like my husband, that's the seven. Like every time I think of like what could happen, he's like, but we could do this and this could be great. And so I think that's so good. And the compassion piece, that's definitely I know be working on for.

We all know it's most, it's most everyone's life work is finding compassion. We, we can freely give it to others, but we have a hard time giving it to ourself. But if we remember that there's, you know, a foreign under child that's running our show, it's a lot easier to not beat ourselves up.

Yeah, I love the inner child's work done a lot. But it's like, yeah, I think that's another. Okay, I got another good question for you.

Okay, great.

So I'm not. I'm only 29, which I feel like is old because I'm about to be 30 and.

Shut up.

31St. I can't believe it, but I have to. That's the compassion piece. I'm like, oh, I should be far along, but actually, I'm really young and I'm experiencing new seasons, obviously. Bringing a child in life, growing a business, my husband switching careers over the last four months, there's a lot of new things happening for Sixes. It's like, oh, I'm hosting, hosting my first retreat back from having a baby and going to be four days away from her in January. All kinds of things are happening. I'm hosting an event the first time back since Cameron in person on Friday. So I'm pushing myself out of this comfort zone, I guess. But my question is, it's like, I'm always pushing just far enough. I know this. So this is like a growth thing. But, like, it's almost like I have to pre. Pre manifest my success and make sure that all the things will work out before I put myself out there. So it's like, I do just enough. Does this make sense? Like, instead of playing really big, I'll be like, okay, I'll host this mastermind after I speak to a couple people and, like, get in the DMs and see what I have signed up instead of just, like, following what it is that I want to follow. Like, logistically, like, if I was in your business, it would be so easy. Okay, Tracy, we need to do this, this, this. But when it comes to my business, it's like, okay, but we need to make sure that, like, we won't fail first. It's like a subconscious thing I'm doing, and I know I'm doing it. It's like keeping myself just safe enough and not really, like, playing full out. So how do I manage that and accept. I guess this is the seasons part. How do I accept that with all these new seasons happening? Like, this is just like the work's never done. I think this is the first time in my life, like, the last two years of, like, I did all this work the last five years. Like, I feel like I like this checkbox. And I'm realizing because I'm young, but I'm realizing, like, this is just the beginning. But I. But with everything else I've been through, like, I know, you know, about, like, my parents, but I feel Like, I've been through all these seasons. Like, shouldn't it be done yet? Shouldn't I already be over this yet? Shouldn't I be able to play bigger now? But it's always, like, just. It's a shame. I think there's some shame in that of, like, you should know better kind of thing.

Well, again, the shame will keep you stuck. And my love, like, year 29. And I get. Because when I was 29, I was like, oh, my God, my life is almost over. And I've had two or three different careers since then. You know, I've been divorced since then. You know, all these things. And I'm not minimizing how real it feels. The other thing is, like, I was about your age when I started this journey, this 27, 28, 29 range. Something happens with your planets as well. There's like a Saturn thing or a return of some sort. All my astrologer friends, if I'm misspeaking, let me know. But I know there's some kind of return that happens in this age range and then another one when you're 47 to, like, 52 kind of range. So I always find men and women in this age range, like, you're at this fork in the road, and you're far enough from, like, college age where it's cute and fun, but you're also, like, going down this road of, like, real adulting shit. Right. And you know it. You. You want to think, like, oh, my gosh, I should be further. I should be further. And you're exactly where you need to be. You really, really are. And you've done a lot. And, you know, we do like to check boxes, don't we? We like to, like, say, great, done with that. Especially when you've experienced as much trauma as you and I have. And we have, like, raise our hand and said, we're willing to dive into this. And we're. And we. We do this negotiation with the divine God, whatever you believe in, and we're like, I'm gonna go here. And I expect this to be resolved in about three months, because I got to do.

Yep.

And that's not kind of how this works. We can. We can do what we're capable of and what our conscious mind will allow us to dive into at any given time based on the tools that we have to deal with it. When I think about when I was your age and what I dove into, like, looking back, it was pretty surface level, but at the time, it felt so deep. And it doesn't Mean, I didn't work hard enough to go deeper. I mean, we have these things in our nervous system and in our body and in our intuitive kind of places to protect us because we can only handle so much, no matter how powerful and strong you are all my enneagram mates. And you can't troubleshoot enough to think you can check this box and be done with it. This work is a constant excavating process, and until we're done on earth, it will continue. And as long as you know that it gets like, we can be like, okay, well, this is. This is where I've gotten to a healing place today. And know that every time you raise your hand or every child you have or every milestone you hit in any part of your life, whether it's professional or personal, new levels will bring up new devils to dance with.

Yeah. And. And dancing with the devil is part of our growth process. It doesn't mean that it's here to take us out. It can but fall in love with the dancing with the devil that comes up as we kind of explore new levels. And it doesn't mean you. You sucked. It doesn't mean you didn't check a box well enough. It doesn't mean that you didn't do the work. But there's a ne. Another level. It's kind of like playing Mario Brothers on the thing. Like, you go through the little tube, and it's like, yay, I got to that level. And then, sure enough, there's a whole nother world that you have to enter and conquer. It's true. Our inner work is no different than that.

Yeah. So that's good. And personally, I'm so comfortable with that. Like, if you were like, okay, plug me out into the. I was thinking this other day, I was like, me and person moved to island with our daughter. Like, I would do the work forever, but when it's part of, like, what you do for a living.

Oh, I know.

It's a whole nother like, it is. It sometimes makes me want to just, like, forget this. This is the hardest shit in the world. So why am I doing this?

Well, it is. And you can do something else, like, and I'm in the same boat, sister. It's real different when you're the brand, when it's your intellectual property, when it's your life experience that you're saying, hey, trust me, for me to guide you. I get that. It is a whole different ball game than standing behind somebody else's brand that you believe in, even and promoting and strategizing and all the things.

Right.

I get it. Because I'm. I'm. I'm like you with this. We're the same tri type. So the way that I process through my brain is very six. Like, the way that I operate in the world is eight, obviously. And I feel like a two, just like you do. Like, that's your tri type. We have the 6 to 8 tri type, which means, like, obviously you are motivated and fear like a six. You operate in the world and do like an eight, and then you feel like a two.

So you don't want to make a mistake that puts you in a vulnerable situation. And so that 6, 8 combo is fierce and bulletproof in a lot of ways because nobody can get one by on us. But we can also become our own bottleneck and the. The own. We're. We're the tourniquet in the flow. So I have. I mean, I'm very much in my six brain right now too. And not the healthy part of my six brain.

Yeah.

Because I'm like, well, what about this? But what about this? But what about this? And I have to use my wings, too, to say, okay, I've troubleshot enough. I have more than enough information. I have enough evidence in my life that people have paid me a lot of money over the last 12, 13 years where I am the personal brand and I am the. The guide.

Yes.

And, like, isn't that enough evidence? And. And if I was talking to you as my client, I'd be like, yes, it is. Let's go. Right.

This is. This will be my constant work too. I'm not saying it's easy, but just like building any muscle consistent and an unconditional commitment that every day you're going to add. How do we build muscles by adding resistance? How do we add resistance by doing things that are uncomfortable, whether it's in the gym or in entrepreneurship. Truth. And if you want to continue to build the muscle, which is the only way really to handle. Yeah, it really is. And this is how we build it strong so that when the unthinkable, like Covid happens, like, thank God. Like, thank God I had built that muscle. So when that happened, I was like, okay, plot twist. Here we go. Literally right now, back in 2008, when the first recession happened that I was part of, I didn't have that muscle strong, and my whole world blew up because I didn't know how to emotionally deal with it. Yep. Right. So we want to build this muscle strong, but it takes a consistent effort every day by adding resistance to it and an unconditional additional commitment that even when it's so hard and you feel like your. Your legs are going to buckle out from underneath you, that you, you show up in the arena anyway.

I'm like gonna need to listen to this like 18 times again. Because that, it's the truth. It's like the only solution, the only way out is in. But like with extra resistance on there too. Right?

I need, I needed this conversation too, my love. It's. Yeah.

And that's why I love this work is like, we get to do it for people and do it for ourselves. And I want to say, like, if anybody listening hasn't had the tri type and hasn't had the test done by you, because knowing I was a six was a very surface level awareness. But when you told me the tri type, there's always been something like in any career I've been in any. When I ran my brother's business, all these different things. People say, you're so assertive, you're so intense. I don't think anybody outwardly would see the six in me. And so they think I'm this eight, this person that can handle and this person that doesn't have like, doesn't get her feelings hurt. No need to check on her because she's got this and she's the one that can help everybody. But it's so good to see, like, okay, but maybe that's what you see. But I always make sure to tell you guys, like, I'm a six at my core and I want you guys to like, support me too. I deserve the same things that I give you and my family in my life. And I've had to cut off a lot of relationships that don't think it needs to be a win win. Right. Because I've been used. This is like my new growth journey is like cutting all these things off that aren't win wins and being like, I deserve. Yeah, no, I can handle. I don't need to handle all the time.

And the other thing about you and I both is when we process feelings, we process them like twos because of the tri type that you and I have. And twos have a hard time asking for what they need. Not that we're motivated like twos, because we're not. But when we go into our feelings, you know, that 6, 8 combo is very assertive and protective and kind of intense. Sometimes a lot of self preservation sixes are mistyped as eights.

On other assessments. But that two part of both you and I We do want to be supported. We do want to feel loved and appreciated. And we struggle to ask for what we need. And we have to. We have to. And we have to do it before we're popping off. Because a lot of times by the time you and I ask for what we need, we're in that resentment, that aggression, and then we. We are not heard. It will require you and me to get real vulnerable with a very small few and say, this is what I need from you. And I'm afraid to ask because of all the reasons why we're afraid to ask, but it is required. To whom much is given, much is required. And with great response, with great reward comes a great responsibility. And I'm not saying this is easy, because it's not. It's. It'll be probably my biggest challenge my whole life. And I've been doing it more this last year than I have in my previous 50 years. And every time I do it, my muscles get a little bit stronger and stronger and stronger. So I'll say the same to you. That's good. I did.

This just happened last Thursday. I sat with my husband because you said, you wait until. Like, I'm like, I'll handle it. I'll handle. I'll just figure in my head. I'm figuring it out, and all these dots are connecting. And I sat down with him, and I was like, listen, I need help. And he was like. He started crying. He was like, no. That you were struggling with this so much. And I'm like, since becoming a mom, I'm struggling with my ambition and being a mom because my six. My sixth self wants to give both of them 100 all the time. And that's just not realistic. Like, it's not. And. And he was just like, I didn't realize. Like, I know you say things that I pop off, like, must be nice to work for the day, but, like, that's what I meant. Right?

Yeah.

And he's like, I didn't realize that you needed more time to work and that you needed more care and like, let's hire out and let's do this. And it was really good to feel like, wow, like, I am seen and I'm deserving of.

Yes.

The support. And I don't have to figure it all out by myself, which has been what I've been trying to life same.

And. And the. The real thing here is recognizing it before you're popping off. Right. Like. And I had an incident last week as well that I. I can feel it bubbling up and Instead of going over the deep end and the resentment, I went inward and say, what do I really need here? And I wanted love and support. And it was vulnerable because we can be disappointed because we're human beings and other people are human beings. But I will say that getting vulnerable, especially with somebody that you know you can trust and has your best interest at heart, even if they don't always get it right, is worth it every freaking time. So I'm proud of you for doing that.

It is. It's worth it. But it's scary. And then another thing happened. Another personal thing happened. I'm just sharing because this could help somebody, but I sent someone in my family who's been struggling for a long time an email because I knew they wouldn't receive my six energy good via voice. And it was really triggering to my family member. And I felt immediately I went into, like, a vulnerability, hangover. Why did I do that? Like, I started crying until my husband. Like, that wasn't my business. I started just freaking out for speaking my truth to help a family member. And then it came out on the other side, like, he came to me, was like. Like, that has changed my life. And I'm going to take these steps now because you told me things I didn't want to hear. And wow, why I feel like sharing that is because this is going to be something that, like, changes their life for the rest of their life. And, like, if I would have just been like, you know what? I just will handle this. I'll keep this to myself. I'll just keep trying to help them. But instead, I, like, shared my truth, which is so hard, you know, as the other part.

The other part of what you did really beautifully there is taking responsibility. How this is a big thing about enneagram work too, is understanding, like, how others might receive you. And like you said, like, understanding that the person on the receiving end, sometimes that frantic 6 energy, even if you're stone cold on the exterior, the energy doesn't lie. And obviously having a vulnerable, hard conversation with somebody that you know you're about to deliver a message that they may not love, discerning that it's still a conversation that needs to happen, it still could create conflict. And I know the chances of them best receiving my intention, my heart, the love that I'm delivering this message in will be executed best this way. And it'll give them some time to kind of process it before having to respond or react or they may not at all. And that is a huge thing where you had a High involvement to the process, but a low attachment to how it might be received. And you were very smart in how you delivered it. It isn't always what we say. It's the messaging and the execution of it and knowing who's in front of you. This is why, like, I love doing groups. Yeah, like, beautiful.

Because that would have never got across if I would have come to them and been like, hey, this is what I think. Like, I love. Like, the message was super. Like, it was like, I'll wash your feet. I'll do whatever I need to do to, like, be like with you during this. Hard. If I would have said that in person, it would have been like, oh, you're better than me, or you're pretending to be. You know, you got it all figured out, which I don't. I'm not claiming to. So it was a beautiful. It was triggering for me because I was like, oh, my gosh, like, what if they think I, like, they. They don't believe anything that's in this letter. And it's me projecting so that 6 doubt in me was like, don't do it. And then I, like, stepped into my 8 energy. I'm like, no. Like, I'm gonna challenge this because I know this person is more capable and I love them. So it was good. Like, my. Me using my tri type.

All.

All this happened in four months. So it's. It's working.

Yeah, I love it. Okay, what other question do you have?

Okay, let me see.

I think you had at least one more.

Okay. Well, it's kind of along with everything we say, but I attract a lot more Sixes that are clients.

I don't mean to. I think it's because I talk about the belief work a lot because it's what I've had to use to have the life that I have is I wouldn't be where I am without the mindset work because of so much mindset drama. But I tracked a lot of sixes and I see a lot more in them actually, of, like, self doubt. Like, for example, I have a client who's a very, very fit woman who wants to have a personal training coaching business. But, like, literally every single day, it's like, I just need to go get a job. Every single day. It's like just complete self doubt. So for sixes, what's something that they can anchor into when it comes to the enneagram? Because I know for me as a tri type, so maybe that's the answer, but what's something that they can anchor into to come out of that, like, safety and security and actually being able to follow their dreams. Because it's like following your dreams is not the safety is not the security is not. So it's like, is it, is it, is it better personally for some people to just go back and get a job and to work a corporate career as a six? And is it like, how, how would someone determine that? Because sometimes I look at my clients and they hire me to help them. And I think to myself, like, if you're not willing to go there, maybe it is best to get a job. Or how, how would you coach somebody through that?

Well, we have to be careful because that will. If we say something like, well, maybe you're not willing, it can create shame and we don't want to do that. So, like giving them like the option, like, you know, at any moment you can change your mind. You can change your mind. This may not be for you. And that doesn't make you a failure. Like, the risk might be too much for you to be able to go in. And there's nothing wrong with that. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Same thing for like, somebody like me. Like, I wanted to be in a relationship, but the risk of vulnerability was too high for too long, and I wasn't going to do it. It for seven years I didn't do it and it didn't make me unlovable. It didn't make me.

Meant to be alone, and I just wasn't there yet. And so one of the things that for a six, like, especially if you see the, the wheel and it's constant, first of all, you can't take it like, you suck as their guide.

That can be personal too.

Yes, I know. Because it can feel so personal that, like, it's your job to convince them and give them every strategy. Every strategy. And, and you can't. All the strategy in the world, all my sixes, doesn't mean if you can't access your soul and your spirit and this is where the wings will come into play, right? That, that seven, nine part. Also, the other thing about understanding sixes is that your stressor number is the three, right? And so a lot of times it's like they sixes will go into do more, do more, do more, do more, do more, do more. And that actually creates a bigger chaos and doubt, right? And sometimes slowing down and not doing, which is very hard for a six, is what's required. Now if you're. You're guiding a client that won't slow down. There's going to be very little because they don't want to sit in the discomfort of there's something to actually do.

There's something that they're bypassing, right?

Yes. Yes, they're bypassing. And they may not like to hear that. They may not believe it. They may think you're projecting. And what I will say is this, like, I know that I am a beautiful, well intended, integrity filled guide. I know that I am. And not everybody is ready for it.

Yes.

And a lot of times I will become the villain in the story. And that's okay. I get it. But I have and it does. It still hurts because I know that's not my intent and I know that like I am doing this from all the most integrity filled places. Whether it's personal or professional, you know, you have to ask yourself are. Is your intention nothing but pure and like, especially for you, you have to like check yourself. Am I doing this because I don't want this to be a reflection of me?

Yeah.

And I'm trying to force them into something they're not ready for because of how this might make me look. Right. Like same thing with me, like with. Am I trying to force this because I want them to know how strong I am. Right. Like hello, that's a big like, oh, there it is again.

That's ego.

Yeah, ego. And, and again, meeting it with compassion. It's like, of course I did. Of course I did. But you know, we can course correct it if is your intent nothing but for the greatest good for them. If that's a yes. If are you doing this out of integrity checking your own ego and motives and if that's a hell yes, I know, then you know again, high involvement to the process of low attachment to how and if they are ready to receive it and some people just aren't ready and that's okay. And you can let them know it's okay. Like I've had to have that conversation. Like, listen, this is hard. Living into a calling or our desires. Nobody said it was easy.

We'd all do it if so.

And all the strategy in the world, if you can't access your own soul here at the deepest level, all the strategy isn't going to mean literally and where the real work for you, you can say this to your client, is is slowing down and getting to know who you are. The awareness, the acknowledgment, the act compassionate action, which is the really what integration is.

But as far as you attracting a lot of sixes, I will say this. You know we want to be able to work with a diverse kind of group of personalities. Right. And back in my day like I attracted type A intense individuals. Like that's what I worked with all the time in my previous career and then especially when I first started kind of doing this because that intensity, it's like a magnet, right. To more intensity. But I realized that I was missing the boat if I couldn't help the empath, the highly sensitive, the enneagram twos of the world, the fours. And so I needed to really use the framework of my enneagram type with my wings, my growth, my number, my tri type in order to speak to the diverse group. Because not only.

Do you not want to leave a lot of money on the table business wise with you know, that, you know, but on a spiritual and soul level, we're meant to work collectively together. And when I work with diverse personalities like you, there's no way 15 years ago you would have ever been felt safe with me. Right. But today, and, and what's beautiful about that for me as the guide is I learn more and more about myself through the diversity of people I get to work with. I love that. So like it's a win win for everyone. But it requires you to go into the other framework of your personality and go back into your intuition and nervous system where the other framework can help push you there. So if you are attracting a lot of sixes, I'm. Then you do need to branch into the framework of your enneagram a little bit so that you can get the empath and, and the, the maybe more intense, aggressive person.

I'm like, I want to, I want to coach the intense person, but all these people with all self doubt are like coming to me and I'm like, listen, I'm really freaking good at helping you with that, but I really like.

Helping you because you have, you have your own self doubt radiating.

Yes.

And so people recognize that as home. Like she gets me and part of you is frustrated. But those people that are in your vortex right now are here to show you because like you said, you're looking at them and their business and their life and you can strategize them all day long.

And they're mirroring what you are capable of doing for yourself as well. And sometimes we keep getting the same lesson beat into us until we see it for ourselves. So that also might be why.

Yes, I'm pretty self aware, I would say. That's pretty, that's pretty accurate. That's really good. Gosh, I'm like, there's so many good little nuggets in here. I'm like, I'm gonna have to listen to this over and over because there's something you said really quick. I'm trying to remember because my brain was like, oh, that was it.

Something about. Dang, I can't even remember what it was.

Just attracting the right people based off of what I'm radiating. That was just like, Well, I think.

I think that nobody stumbles into our journey by accident or at the wrong time. I had a client that, of course, she's an eight. Like, I attract a lot of eights, too, but.

I don't only attract eights. But she had signed up to do private VIP coaching and paid in full, you know, maybe four or five months ago and didn't book an appointment with me. And I knew this was, you know, and. And the way that I operate my business is very different than most because of the work I do. And she showed up last week after four or five months. I mean, paid in full, like, And I knew she was coming. And then, because I knew how she was wired, I knew this why. I knew why. And ironically, we had our first conversation in depth last week, and the timing for her was beautiful and equally so it was for me. You know, she. She is a mirror of who I am in some ways. And the things that she is getting hung up on are very similar to the same things I'm hung up on in this part of my excavating process. And even though I'm a little bit ahead of her, I'm not completely through that part of my growth. And I'm you. And I was very transparent with her. I'm like, I love that you waited this long because the timing of this is divine. Better. But I easily could have gone into, oh, I'm not capable and prepared to handle this, because I haven't figured it all out yet. And in fact, these people come to us in our journey to help grow us too. And the more transparent, like, she didn't like, because I said that to her, like, oh, gosh, I'm working through this too. It didn't all of a sudden set off her alarm bells, like, oh, my God, I have the wrong coach. If she can't take me through this, then, oh, my God. And in fact, it made her. It not only connected us more, but it gave me even more credibility.

Yeah.

And she had more trust in me because it's like, I'm figuring this out alongside of you, and I'm vulnerably walking this walk, I'm a few steps ahead of you, but I've got you and I've got me, and she's going to help keep me accountable in it. So before you judge yourself that you're not equipped and capable, all these sixes are coming to you to show you that you're more than equipped to blindly walk this journey to keep going. Yeah.

Yeah. Yes. That's so good. There's something about when I listen to the. The reason I went to the retreat, I don't know if I told you this, I listened to an episode of you and Keisha on the podcast, and I was in, like, a really, like, dark night of the soul season of my life. Like, my baby was a few months old, and I'm like, oh, what do I want to do with my life? And it was the most transparent conversation that I've heard, especially in this industry, in this personal development world. It can be all this. It can be all this strategy, do this, try this, and it's all this strategy. And, like, I always come back to, like, this self awareness, doing the personal work, doing it. But even then, I will shame myself for not being the coach that's like, look at this. Make this money, do that. And I'm like, no, work on the things that you need to work out. So you're a mirror for me. Beautiful mirror of, like, when even at the retreat, the way that you delivered and the way that you carried yourself, I'm like, I can be myself. I can be human. I don't have to take my humanness out in order to do this work that I want to do. And so I want to tell you that, because.

Thank you.

It's just true.

Yeah, yeah. Being human, there's a lot of risk there, right? Like in the personal development, manipulative vortex. That is absolutely true. For.

Yes, yes.

There's a lot of that. And, like, I'm all for anything that brings awareness and all I have. I am not against any modality, but not at the cost of a bypass or the unhuman parts of us, the human part of us can't be recreated by AI. I'm sorry. I love AI. I'm obsessed with it. And, like, the more human we are, we are the ones that will blaze trails and help blaze trails for other people. And it is very risky because we can be rejected, we can be ridiculed, we can be judged, we can be misunderstood. And I wouldn't trade it for anything. And it's.

It.

It comes with, you know, my own grief and your own grief because it hurts. It hurts being human. It can be hurtful sometimes. But you know what? It's where all the juicy parts of life are too. So. I'm proud of you, girl. I'm really, really proud of you. It's so good to see you and. And watch you thrive and grow and also, like, be vulnerable and transparent enough to say, I don't have it all figured out. And. And, you know, here's the spoiler alert. You guys, like, none of us. We will never have it all figured it out. Figured out.

Damn it. Damn it. Trust me, I know I can figure this out. I can put together a formula.

You can have it figured out more than anybody. And there will be unknowns and variables that you will never see coming that will give you so much more joy in the journey if you surrender to it.

Go on the adventure instead of the chaos. Yeah.

Yes. You can either make it a crisis or an adventure. You choose, babe. Yeah, that's all right, girl. You guys, if you want to be part of the Enneagram hotline, please go to my website, Tracy O' Malley.com. you can apply there. If you've done the Enneagram blueprint with me already, you automatically get moved to a front end of the list for consideration of it where you can get all your Enneagram questions answered. Brandy, I love you. Where can people find you if they want to follow along on your journey? Because I know there's a lot of Sixes and people that love and lead Sixes that need to know more about the Six brain and. And what?

Do no more Sixes. No, I'm just kidding. So have a podcast. I love helping Sixes. I have a podcast. It's becoming wildly well with Brandy Lee on Apple, Spotify, all the things. So I have bi weekly episodes there. They can also follow me at Brandy Gilstrap on Instagram and the same with Facebook.

I love it, you guys. If you love this episode, share it with somebody. Share it on socials. Tag me. If you have questions you can always slide into my DMS and we can chat. Or if you want to be on the hotline, go apply now. And until next time, we'll see you soon.

I'm so happy you enjoyed the Leadership Formula podcast. Please help us spread the word about this show by sharing it with a friend and leaving a written Apple podcast review. If you have any follow up questions to this episode, you can DM me directly on Instagram at traceyomalley. You can also find additional resources is on my website@tracyomalley.com I'm excited to lead you into the next level.