EP183: Live Enneagram Typing Session—From Chaos to Clarity with Des Dickerson

Welcome to the Leadership Formula podcast, where you will learn the secret sauce behind achieving massive success. I'm your host, Tracy o', Malley, multimillion dollar entrepreneur, your Enneagram expert, master performance coach, and mom to millennials. Do you want deep, meaningful relationships to wake up every day with purpose and make money doing something you love? Well, you've landed in the right place. Every week, I will teach you how to get exactly what you want in life by strengthening your emotional intelligence. Using a combination of the Enneagram framework, live life coaching sessions, and real talk from yours truly, it's time to transform yourself into the ultimate leader of your life. Let's do this thing.

All right, you guys, it's time for a live Enneagram typing session. You guys know that this is the most important part of the whole Enneagram process. If you want to drink the Kool Aid, that is the Enneagram, or you want to use this, which is why I am so passionate about it. As the same single greatest personal development growth tool of all time, it really, really is next to my divine faith. Right next to that is the Enneagram and the power and beauty in it. And today, I am going to bring you one of my dear friends, Des Dickerson. We are in a mastermind together. And she's very quiet, typically, like, she's kind of a natural observer, which usually that makes me nervous, because that's what I am, too. I'm a little bit more loud than I used to be with it, but I sense, like, usually the quiet ones are usually the most underestimated and underrated, and usually there's some pain attached to that. Like, we've learned to observe as a way to either protect ourselves for or to have clarity on what's going down. And I could just feel her beautiful soul. And ironically, as God always does, he brought me next to her on a bus ride. I don't even know where we were going, but it was a glorious bus ride. And we were. Deep down, I don't even know where we were. Where were we? Do you even know?

I feel like we're so in the middle of nowhere, in the middle of the desert, somewhere in Arizona.

Seriously. And, oh, it was after that day of, like, repelling mountains, I think.

Yes. I think it was on our way or on the way back or something along those lines.

It was dark, so it was on the way back. And we just got in this beautiful, soulful conversation. And she's quite a bit younger than me. I could be her mama. And I just felt this pull to just guide her through some of her own stuff. It's not that I have the answers for any of you, but really helping you get to your soul and sometimes, like, that is the power of the Enneagram. It's really the roadmap back to our soul's calling. And unfortunately, so many times we're put into environments or situations or families or school systems or you name it, that kind of chip away at the expression, the natural, authentic expression of our soul. And I could feel that with this beautiful, beautiful friend I'm about to introduce you to. Des, why did you want to do this?

It's so crazy, because I have heard so many things about Enneagram. Enneagram. Enneagram. And I've always felt like it's super woo, and I'm not a very woo person. A little bit. I would say on a scale of one to ten, I'm like a three of a woo.

And everybody this past few weeks, especially at our mastermind we just got back about two weeks ago, was like, I'm Enneagram this, and my wing is this, and da, da, da. I'm like, okay, I'm clearly missing out on my Enneagram, and it does seem to relate, you know, very directly to my personal life and my profession. So I'm like, I need to reach out to Tracy and ask her, like, hey, what is my Enneagram, and how is it relating to my personal life, my professional life?

Right. And what I like to say, like, you know, I'm almost 50. You're what, 27?

29. 29.

All right. Yeah. So I could be your mama. Understanding that, yes, we can be complex, especially women. We can compartmentalize so many different areas of our life to a fault. We can show up this way here, this way there, this way here. So sometimes we wake up. I was 28 when I woke up, and I'm like, who the hell am I? I don't even freaking know.

Yeah.

And what I love about this tool is knowing that there is a core motive to everything I do and a core fear behind why I'm so protective of myself. And, yes, I can say, oh, but here it's this. And here it's this. Like, if we do the six degrees of separation on my core fear, it's always the freaking same thing every single time. And the motive is always the same and really understanding that. And then it feels like we only have to wear one hat, but how we wear it can be different. And I love baseball hats. And sometimes I like flipping that sucker Backwards and it's game on. And sometimes I like wearing it cute like Sporty Spice. And sometimes I get a little rogue and wear it to, you know. And that's kind of what I want for, for you is to say, like, you're DEZ and you're DEZ only. But how you express DEZ and authentically express her can change depending on where you're at. But it doesn't change who you are at the core. And when we have that freedom to be exactly who we were designed to be, shit gets a lot easier. And we don't blow up our life as much and we stay out of situations that may not be for us. Right. Whether it be personally or professionally. And I think we're going to dive into a little bit of both today with you.

Love it.

Because you are in a little pivot in both ways. Like, that was the thing, I think on that bus you had just pivoted hardcore. Like 48 hours before. Yeah. Relationship.

Yeah. 48 hours before being on that bus ride, I had just speed moved out of my ex boyfriend's house because I found out he was cheating on me. And I was like, oh, my gosh, I'm on this trip. I'm literally an emotional wreck. And here I am just sitting here, just kind of going through the motions. But honestly, now that it's. I'm like eight months out from that time, like, I feel the best that I've ever felt. And I'm in like such a transformational transitional period, year of my life. And that was like a huge trigger to it.

When is your birthday?

May 3rd.

Oh, so you're a Taurus on top of it. So you're stubborn. I love you, Taurus. You stubborn Tauruses will stay in things until like, yes, until like the last minute. I swear to God.

Yes, until something forces me out. Which is what I've been realizing is until something forces me out, like, literally, I feel like it's God. I'm very Christian. And until God's like, you cannot be in this situation any longer and I will do whatever it takes to get you out, I will stay in that situation.

Yeah, you have pivoted relationally and professionally. And what comes up in that for you? So one of the first questions I usually ask people, because being typed properly, if you're going to use the enneagram, is key because this is a roadmap, it's framework. And if you have the wrong information, it's freaking pointless. And you know all those online assessments, every single one, I don't care if it's paid or not, ends up 65 to 70% of the time, they're inaccurate.

Wow.

And so, like, having somebody that can guide you through curious questioning and finding out, you know, your core of everything and your instincts. Because a lot of, you know, artificial intelligence is amazing, but it isn't bulletproof. And, you know, for something as powerful as this tool, having the right information is key. So good news for you. Well, you got me on speed dial, which is great. And you'll have the right information. So on your exploration of your soul's forever, framework in your soul's calling and God's design for you all along. You know, my favorite scripture is in Psalms, it's the steps of a good man or woman are ordered by the Lord. They're already done. He's already got a plan for you. And then we kind of just like, take the reins and go rogue a little bit on God's plan. And so really with the enneagram kind of leading you back to that beautiful child of God you were always designed to be freely right before life kind of kicks us in the teeth. And that's why I think this is so beautiful and especially for you right now, I love it. So the first question I always ask people when I join them live on a typing session or on a bus or wherever we're at is, what do you believe isn't working as well as you would like it to in your life, professionally and personally? Because they are intertwined, believe it or not.

Ooh, that's a good question. I found that professionally and personally, the same thing is my life is very chaotic. And when my life is chaotic, I cannot operate. And it took me again this year to realize that, you know, I'm operating in all this chaos. And it's like working, working for, like, a few weeks or a few months, and then all of a sudden things will just blow up. And it's because my life is messy. Like, it's chaotic. It's not organized. And I really fight organization. I fight systems and processes in my work life. I fight systems and processes and consistency in my personal life. That's the biggest thing that I haven't found is working isn't working. And also just generally and broadly, like, I was just really not happy, not happy. Like, having trouble finding happiness in my personal life and having trouble finding happiness in my professional life.

Why do you think you. I mean, you do have a part in it, like, the chaos in your life. Although circumstances sometimes are inevitable, it always takes two, whether it's a circumstance or the driver behind it. Right, Right. Why do you think that you have felt so comfortable in chaos even though you don't like it and it's disruptive to your life today? Clearly it's something that you are familiar with.

Yeah, that's a good question. My mom asked me this a few weeks ago. I don't know, like, I just feel like I've always been to the peak point of operational at chaos, right. Like I can do like a 70% job, which is not. I don't like being a 70% person, but I can do a 70% job operating in chaos. And so I think I've always been able to be average in chaos until like I blow up. Right. So maybe, maybe that's it. It's a space of, of comfort to a certain point. But my life has always been chaotic. Like every job that I've had but even pre entrepreneurship is chaotic. My high school experience was very, I went to private high school and like very college prep and a lot of work, have heavy workload pretty much my whole life of what felt like chaos to me. A lot of work, you know, operating with a lot of tasks and things like that. So yeah, that's the only thing I can really relate my, like how I operate in chaos.

So let's talk about like early on in your life. You know, I get asked a lot about the Enneagram. Is it like, does it change? Is it because of how we grew up? And I've carried two babies in my belly and I definitely know we're all born with a temperament and disposition in nature. And my kids now in their 20s today are very much like how they were in utero and based on their Enneagram types. So I believe it's, you know, nature, nurture and kind of learned childhood coping mechanisms. So that being said, what was it like in your home growing up? How was that? Chaotic?

Yeah. The crazy part is, is that I don't remember extreme amount of chaos in my home. My parents are divorced when I was 2, but they have a great relationship. They're great co parenters. I never saw them fight. Maybe I'd seen them fight two times in my whole life. They're great friends, great co parenting. I think I mentioned that. And it was me and my mom and I was with my dad every other weekend. So me and my mom, you know, she did a lot. I saw her working and then taking care of me as what really was like a single mom. So maybe that was a little bit of chaos there. A Lot of rushing to get from place to place and her trying to figure out how to do the best she could as a single mom. And then when I was with my dad, I mean, I was with him for a few days out of the month, I guess four days every other weekend out of the month. And, you know, we would. He would take me running around doing errands and things like that. But otherwise, like, not too chaotic, but potentially like the back and forth between them.

Maybe that could tell me about your mom, because she sounds a lot like me. Where, you know, I've been a single mom for 14 years as well. And I'm gathering from what I remember from our conversation as well, mom is a rock, right. And she's very strong and independent. Right.

My mom is a rock. Very strong and independent. But also, I guess talking through this coming up, she's chaotic too. Like, she's not organized. She's waits. I love her with my dear soul, but waits until the last minute to do things just how I grew up. I'm a product probably of my environment in that space. But, you know, she. She in some ways probably thrives in chaos too.

And even if she is like. And I love that. Your parents did great co parenting. Thank God. Yes, thank God for that. I think, you know, we need more of that. So bravo to your parents for that. I didn't always do such a great job at that. However, I will say that even, like, being a single parent is chaotic. It is. And then we bring our own crap to the table and it can kind of stir the pot. And, you know, even though I was like, super strong, my kids can feel my energy. The never lied. So even though your mom was, you know, freaking superhero, she was. The energy doesn't lie. And when you're wired like you who needs some certainty in her life, like the needing order needing, you know, even though you resist it, it's the very thing that you need.

Yeah.

Like, that kind of creates this more need for like, that. And also I can. I can see a little rebellion in you. Even though you're like a good person and you're not like, rebellious, like, this girl is like. I mean, I'll go off the freaking rails when I'm rebellious and blow some shit up. The way that you are rebellious is creating that chaos in your life almost to prove that, like, I can handle it.

Yeah.

Is that a pattern for you for sure?

Oh, my gosh. It's 100% a pattern. And I think it's such a pattern that I don't Even realize that I'm creating the chaos anymore. Right. So it's such a pattern in my life. You hit that on the team.

So. Something I notice about people like you. And I did this too for different reasons though. Like I sometimes would blow up my life because at least then I didn't get blindsided by it and I was in control of it. And I notice I've got people in my life just like you, that sometimes the chaos, it's a controlled chaos, but it's at least you know what's going on. But it's also a way that other people maybe can't help you, but you won't be hurt or blindsided by them. Is that a pattern for you?

100%.

Yeah.

I want to observe, which is why when you, when you say, like, I'm such an observant person, like I want to control every single part of my environment, Like I want to control who I'm letting into my life, my circle, my anything. And I do that by being very quiet, observing and trying to control my environment the best that I can.

And almost having this front, like, I can't touch this. I'm not afraid. But inside you're really worrying and freaking the hell out.

Yeah.

Yeah, I can see that with you for sure. How would you describe your anger?

I am not a blow up and get really mad type of angry person. I'm very quiet. Well, you'll know that I'm mad at you. It'll be very clear that I'm mad at you. But I don't scream, I don't yell, I'm quiet. I need to process and then I need to talk about things in order to solve problems.

Yep. Which, you know, for somebody who is more of an observer, when you talk, it's important. It is important. And I'm sure there have been people in your life that when you need to say all the things or ask all the things, you might have heard things. And I would have been an asshole to you. At some point in my life because I'm a bottom line me kind of girl for my own reasons, which is inconsiderate and not very compassionate sometimes. And because I do have people in my life like you, they have to talk it all out and I automatically go into strategy and I either want to fix it or like, don't worry about it because if something bad happens, I've got it and that's where I can do my flex and my ego takes over. And that isn't like this even energy exchange. So it's Going to be really important for you moving forward in relationships, romantic or friendship wise and in business, you know, because you will need a lot of questions answered and you may not ask them up front. I want you to get in the habit of asking them up front because it can help you eliminate some of this chaos for yourself. And also prefacing it by saying, listen, I'm going to be 100% on board, but before I am, I've got some important questions that may seem silly to you, but for me to buy in and with all certainty in my body, like, just hear me out. I'm not asking you to solve it all, but like, I gotta process this out.

Okay?

It's gonna be really, really important because in the past, like people like you can trigger me in the past. My best friend is a lot like you and she has to ask all the questions. And for an eight like me, all of a sudden that feels really vulnerable and like you're invading my personal space or even worse. You don't think I got shit handled?

That's so me. Everyone's always asking me like, why do you ask so many questions? I'm just, that's just my personality. I went to school to be a reporter. Like, I just need to know everything, I want to know everything in order to, I don't know, like, I guess I'm nosy, but on top of that I'm like, I need to know for protection too.

Yeah, yeah. I think that is your natural wiring for sure. And I think the environment you grew up in, which was beautiful, but also, you know, having single parents, like you don't know from day to day, kind of like, whose day is it? What, what's going on? Not that that's bad because you had an ideal kind of co parenting situation, but when that energy is like. And mom's like doing all the things like that creates an uncertainty and anxiety inside, like, what's going to happen? What's going to happen? I have a son that kind of needs to know all the things too, for different reasons. But it's really important that you use your words, especially for people like me, that in the past would not have been so considerate, compassionate or understanding of all your questioning because it isn't about me, why you're asking all the questions. It's so we actually can be better teammates and partners, whether it's in life or in business and, and know that that's always going to happen. So use your words and let people know that it's not personal why I'm Asking so many questions. I trust you and your judgment and all this, but this is for me, so I can be all freaking in on this.

I love that.

Okay, when you're at your best, what are you feeling?

I feel stress free. I feel like I can just operate. I'm a creative, so I, I need to be able to have room to be creative and have space to be creative. So that means like eliminating stress of times. Like when I'm like eating right, I feel best. When I'm working out, I feel best. I feel like those are like normal things that people probably feel best in those space. When I'm. When I'm organized, when my office is clean, my room is clean, you know, my house is clean, I have the space to, you know, be the best version of myself.

When you're struggling and you're on the struggle bus and you're white knuckling it, what kind of things are showing up in your life? Do you get into the hyperactive, like, ocd, like I gotta divide and conquer and crush all the goals kind of thing?

No. When I'm stressed, I can't operate. Like, I dig my head into the sand. When I'm stressed, it's like I have so many things on my to do list, but I don't even know where to start because I'm so stressed out. So I'm not. I get stress and executor, like, that's why I need to. That's why I come to you to really understand my enneagram. Because I was having, honestly, part of my unraveling of this year and this transformation that I'm having is like, I realized I am not. I haven't been a great executor in a few years. And a lot of it I think is because of like the stress, the chaos. Because when I do get stress and I do get chaos, I'm like, oh, I don't want to deal with it.

Yeah. And the enneagram and like, and when I explained to you your enneagram type, because in each enneagram type there are these things called subtypes, right? And that's our instinctual response to life. And this can. This is probably next to trauma, the number one reason why most people are mistyped. And within each of those subtypes is one that doesn't look typical to the others. Right? And you fall into that category. It's called the counter type. It's one that doesn't fit the stereotypes or the memes or the typical things. Because with you, you don't present like this type typically. And I think this chaos that you create in your life is a. Is a way to, like, prove to yourself, like, I'm not afraid. I'm not afraid.

But.

But really, it's like, oh, shit, what's happening right now?

Yeah.

And then it's like this paralyzation. If you were to leave the world tomorrow and I was sitting around, to the people that know you and love you most, what would you hope they learned from you?

Oh, that's a good question. Wow. I would hope that they learned to just be a kind person and to always give back.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, my love you, I believe, are what is called the skeptic loyalist, which is a six on the Enneagram.

Wow. Okay.

Yes. And my best friend is also a six. Okay. She was mistyped as an eight. But you. Have you taken the test before or the assessments before?

So I've taken it before, and I don't. I. I want to say that it came back as a three. And this is why I felt so disconnected from it, because I was like, this doesn't feel like me. So I don't believe in the Enneagram. Right.

So I'll explain why that shows up and why this happens a lot, because the three is connected to the six, but not in the way that you may know. And that's why, you know, I've done hundreds of these and seen the assessments and kind of see the patterns to all of this. And usually what shows up in all the other online tests is usually our stress number or a wing or a coping mechanism. It's not naturally our true type of. Right. And so that's why doing something like this is really, really powerful. So in the subtypes, there's self preservation, there's one on one, and then there's social. And basically, when something happens in your life, one of three things typically happen. Either we're like, oh, my gosh, what's what's going to happen to me? Or, oh, my gosh, what's going to happen to my people, my close people, the people I love and, you know, my inner circle, or, oh, my gosh, what's going to happen to everybody? Right. And we usually toggle between two. One usually is dominant, and one kind of tends to be a blinder spot. Right. The goal is, as we grow, to be able to flow through the three. Now, I do for sure, but one is definitely, like, the social one is definitely my blind spot. It's my least kind of powerful. And same with you. You're Not.

Yeah.

You're not going to be like carrying picket signs and doing all that. And not that that's bad. Like a lot of people go into the social subtype to kind of calm their own crazy that's going on.

Yeah.

Right. Like, I totally get why people would be more drawn to that. You and I are more the one on one.

Yeah.

I think in certain areas of your life, you definitely go into self preservation for sure. Same here. When it comes to money and business, I'm definitely more self preservation and need that kind of security and certainty and safety. But when it comes to every other area of my life, like you, I am this. My circle.

Yeah. That's totally me.

This counter type as a 6 like it, it doesn't typically look like the others, where the others can almost look like nervous nellies.

Yeah.

And. And almost hyperactive in their questions. You're very strategic and methodical in the way that you ask questions and you ask them in a way that. That doesn't really let people know you're actually afraid.

Yeah. And that's so good.

That's the difference between this version of the six. And this will also make sense why, like, you can look very three, like, but you're not motivated. Not even a little bit like a three.

Yeah.

And your former business partner is a typical very three. Yeah, very three. But the. The one on one six tends to be bold, assertive, and even intimidating. And even though you're not naturally verbally intimidating, typically your energy is.

Yeah.

It is.

And. And that's a protective mechanism. It's also to prove how, like, you're not afraid of anything. Right. And a lot of times this type can mistype as an 8. You don't have 8 energy, but sometimes people can be very aggressive in proving they're not afraid. Your energy, although you don't verbalize it, your energy is very strong. You know, you're in the room.

Yeah.

Which Eights kind of get that as well.

So this six, this one on one six believes that the best defense is a good offense and reacting against the typical six fears by running towards fear or danger. It's why you create the chaos that you do. Because a lot of sixes don't want the chaos. So they're almost like control freaks about everything else where you're almost the opposite. Right. So like you run towards the chaos and that head on approach can appear rebellious. And sometimes you can be a little daredevil with that stuff. And even when you stay in crappy relationships.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Girlfriend, I feel you When I look back, Jesus, like, hello.

Like, why? Why did I do that?

Because your need to feel strength makes it difficult to connect to your doubts or feelings of vulnerability.

That's why.

And that is why this 6 is a little bit different. So the 6's core motive is a need for certainty, and that is your natural wiring. And then, you know, hearing how you grew up in the environment that it was like, needing to know all the things so you don't get blindsided by something will always be at the root of your line of questioning. So letting people know, letting them into your heart and saying, listen, like, this is kind of scary for me, which might be hard for you to say because you're more rebellious, but the more you can articulate this with a small few that you trust will go a long way, it's. I could feel that in you. It's like, certainty in your life. And, you know, your core motive will always be about, like, safety, having a game plan, your master troubleshooters. It's also why you're addicted to chaos, to prove you can troubleshoot your way out of anything.

Yeah.

And you are very strategic, and you are very creative, even if it's not, like, creative in the obvious sense, which you are. Sixes are the most creative strategically as well.

That's interesting.

You are. You're very, like. You have, like, plan A, B, C, D, E, F, and G lined up in case you get sidewalked, which is why I love you in my life, because you keep my butt out of a lot of trouble.

But what if this doesn't work? Okay, well, then what if that doesn't work? Then we're gonna go down the whole list of, like, what a B and CD happens.

Yeah. So a six, like, your. Your bumper sticker should say, like, but what if that happens? But what if this happens? But what if this happens? Because I'm just so instinctual. Like, I'll go in hot and not worry about the consequence. And for Sixes, like, in the past, I would have been such a terrible, terrible friend and made you feel very unsafe and uncertain and would feel very disrespected by me. And so understanding the beauty and to have the loyalist, like, you guys are the most loyal. Once you have vetted somebody and you trust that your safety is okay with somebody like me. Like, I take that responsibility very, very seriously, and I can't just always go in hot without explaining some things first. And that doesn't mean that you don't think I have it handled, but because I care about you, so that's why it's really important for you to be able to articulate why you're asking so many questions so people can show you who they are.

Yeah.

Because if you use your words and you tell them why you're asking so many questions and they disregard it, then it might be time to make some discerning moves there. Okay, good. So the beauty of the six is you have access to two wings and a lot of people. These are the unsung hero of the Enneagram. So as the A6, you know, your troubleshooting, strategic ways are your superpowers. It absolutely is. Now you can get caught up in the monotony of the wh Ifs that it paralyzes you and keeps you stuck.

Right.

Like you said, putting your head in the sand. You're so paralyzed by all the wh ifs that, like, you can't even make sense of any of it. And that is not very productive or efficient.

Right.

And it can be very frustrating for those that are like, like, the three business partner you have. She was probably like, let's freaking go.

That's so true. There's so many times where she, I cannot make a decision. Like, I. I'm. I'm that horrible at, like, making a final decision until it feels right for me. And she'd, like, have to give me deadlines of, like, okay, you need to make a decision by this time, on this day and have this decision, because I will keep. I will have that doubt in my mind.

Yeah. And. And you will. And that's where, like, sometimes your sixth tool isn't the right tool for the job. It'll always be what you're motivated by. You will always, always. Your core fear will always be that you're going to be blindsided by a what if.

Yeah.

But obviously that's not always the most effective, efficient. And it's robbing you of what you desire in your life, which is connection and abundance of love and money and service and all the things. And so the wings, I like to say, are like the tools in your tool belt. It's kind of like when you have a main character in the movie. Like, the main character gets a lot of the shout outs. Right.

But.

But my favorites are always the supporting actors in the movies. Whenever I'm watching the Oscars, I care more about the supporting actors than the main actors because they are what make the superhero main character shine. Same thing with the Enneagram. Like, your Sixness wears the cape. Right. Like, that's the superhero. But you can't be the superhero without the help of your supporting cast, which are your two wings.

I love that.

And some people use one wing heavier than the other. Some people don't even access the other. Some people don't use any. And the goal is for full growth and for full utilization of your framework and to be the most well rounded person and to be able to effectively communicate all these things and execute all the things. Like, you need the help of your supporting cast. And so being able to know when to use which tool will be really important. So as a six, your wing accessibility come in the form of the five, which is the investigator.

Okay.

And the seven, which is the innovative enthusiast. Right. Both are in the head triad. The 5, 6 and 7 are all operated in the brain space. So you don't lack in the brain space, but you also feel lots of things too. But the five in you. So when. Okay, so let's put a scenario. The six is going, but what if this, but what if this, but what if this, but what if this, like, enough already. And shame won't solve the problem which I'm sure you've gone to. Right. Or. Or somebody shames you into making a decision you're not happy about and then you have resentment and you explode later, Right?

Yes.

You just like shut down one of the two. So what I usually tell the six is like, okay, let's lean to the five first. Let's get the evidence. Because the investigator, they're not emotional, they're not really afraid necessarily of the same things that the six is afraid of. But the five wants to always have certainty that they are equipped and capable with the right information and resources. And so when the 6 is kind of losing their mind, you can go, okay, five supporting role here. What are. What are the facts? What are the facts? What is the truth? What are the bullet points that I need to know for me to make a decision moving forward instead of getting wrapped up in the tornado brain that I've got going on? Five, here's the facts. And the five is not. They're the most introverted and they have the ability more than any other type to detach emotionally. That can be their superpower and also their downfall. But I mean, I can see where you've used that in a not healthy way before.

Yeah, I mean, because we can build.

A case against anything.

I literally lack the ability. And it's so crazy because I've been reading a lot and researching a lot about how to detach my emotions from decisions that I make. Like, it's. It's the books I read.

It's your five wing.

Like, I cannot for the life of me, I'm having conversations with my dad and he's just like, you have to learn how to separate, like, decision making from being emotional about things. And it's hard for me.

There's two powerful, beautiful tools and framework that are connected to your framework that I'm going to help you to like. This is where I need to go. So the five wing is bullet points, like, straight shooting, detached, emotionally.

Facts.

They're facts. And we want to use that in a healthy way. Not to build a case of why we're not going to do something. Because five is connected to me in another way. So I get it. I know the five very, very well. Okay, so once the six is checked in with the five and the fives are here, the facts. The fives aren't always the best executors, though. And neither is the six. Because you're both kind of like, fives want to conserve their energy and resources and it's too much peopling. The six is like, yeah, but sure, we checked on this. The other side of you is the seven, which is the innovator, the visionary, the enthusiast, and they execute and they are fearless. And so once you've kind of like checked in with the five, like, what do we need to know? Great, we know these things. Then we go to the seven. Okay, how do we make this happen? And with the seven, there's no stupid idea.

I love that.

The seven definitely invented the pool noodle for sure. Who else would come up with that? Right?

I love that.

And so the seven can actually. The seven is a more assertive type and they don't always think about consequences. Not saying you're ever going to be motivated like a seven, but. But because you are always concerned about consequences, you've already run it through the gamut. You've already checked in with the straight shoot in five. So by the time you're checking in with the seven, they're like, where's the party? Let's do this. Are we gonna do this or not? And you've already run it through the course where if you needed to execute, there's your seven. Now here's the other part. We have a growth number, and for the six, your growth number is the nine, which is what I originally thought you might have been.

Okay.

Just in the time I've gotten to know you. It is definitely. It was in the top of your scores for sure. On the assessment you're not motivated necessarily like a 9. But you can embody the 9. And the good news is, is when you use this beautiful nine effectively and. And because you're a woman of faith, this will make you very happy. I believe Jesus was a nine on the Enneagram.

Oh, I love it.

Yeah. So the nine sits at the top of the Enneagram and has the ability to see the bigger picture. The nine adaptive peacemaker. And there's a difference between keeping the peace and making peace. And if you know Jesus, right, like he was a straight shooting, like, tell it like it is kind of person. But it always came from a place of love and without judgment and acceptance of other people. He cared deeply but would not be afraid to challenge directly. And the beautiful part about this is that that is your growth number now left to your own six ways, you will never see the bigger picture and kind of surrender that left to your own ways. And so this is how also the 5 and 7 can really help push you into that growth number. Saying like, okay, how can I communicate this in a way that is inclusive of everyone? Non judgmental, easygoing. Right, Easygoing. And you don't necessarily go hand in hand, typically. Right. And having the five and seven say, okay, six, like, we're going to look at the bigger picture here. I know it's kind of scary, but we got this. We're here to support you. And that will allow you to kind of embody, like, what's in it for the collective, as well as honoring my own need for certainty here.

Love it.

And what's true now, where the three comes in for you is when you are pushed to the brink and all of a sudden, like, the chaos isn't working anymore. A3 is your unhealthy number where you go. It also probably explains a lot of the dynamic between you and your friend and business partner. Right. And why sometimes she would trigger you.

Right.

And also why sometimes you would frustrate her. Because, sure, you're her growth number, her. And it's not easy for her to go to where you go. And it's very easy for you to go into her. And so without understanding that, it can create a lot of like, like power struggles, butting heads. And so you can kind of mimic that. Even though you can go shutting down, also you can go into like, I just got to do it. I just got to do it. I just got to do it. I just got to do it. And almost like shutting down emotionally, all of it. And so being very mindful. When you see the patterns of an unhealthy three. And an unhealthy three can kind of go to the dark side too. And even though they won't let the world see it, it's happening. You've probably seen it being so close with a three, they will save face at all costs. But usually those that are intimate with them in living situations or in business or in romance can really see that side. And. And it's not a fun place to be, for sure. But it's also how you. How I've learned to have compassion for the three. I used to judge them so harshly. I seriously, I was such a jerk to the threes, too. Like, I was like, oh, you need the rah rah. And like, all the attention because you're weak. Like, that's how I used to be with things. But knowing, like, how tortured they are and you have taken on that torture when you haven't used your voice and you haven't asked for what you needed and maybe trying to do it all on your own and not asking for the help or at least like the space for you to ask all your questions, because that's a form of asking for help. Like, not really asking for help, but how you get help is by having your questions answered. And that's going to be really, really important for you.

Yeah. Wow. This, like, this feels so on point for me that so much is making sense now. I'm like, I'm ready to deep dive more into it.

Oh, my goodness. My love Sixes, you gu are the best collaborators in the world. A, because you're very creative strategically and mostly because you want to make sure that everybody is carrying their weight and doing what they're supposed to do so that you don't get blindsided. That's why my very first collaboration only happened this year and it was with my best friend who's a six. And that even. That was really hard for me, even knowing how strategic and bulletproof you guys really are. Like, I listen to y'. All. The good news about a 68 partnership is that, like, I will hear you out. I will absolutely answer your questions and we're going to take freaking action no matter how scared you are. And. And know that if you get blindsided, I got you.

Yeah, that's perfect.

And I think, like, we. We even kind of have that dynamic. Like, you know, that if something bad happens or, you know, even a confrontation happens or you're side whacked by something, you can always call me.

And a, I feel. And I feel like I. I picked up on that, like, instantly. Upon meeting you, like, that is just your nature, your soul. And I know that I can come to you and be like, hey, like, this happened. Like, I need you, you know?

Yeah. That's where I flex for sure. I love it in a health, in a healthy way. Now, before, I used to, like, get off on that. It's like my crack pipe. Like, you want me to be strong? Okay, here, I got it. Yeah. And it was very, you know, self absorbed and self serving. But today it's like I can see she is the most intimate person in my life. Quite honestly, she sees all parts of me. And I know how important it is for you, and I also know how important it is for you to move forward in that too. And gentleness and compassion and kindness. And so how that comes into your life other than for me, is to really find your few key people. And because you are a loyalist and you will get better about asking questions, especially with partnerships in your life, you'll be able to let them see the part of you that's afraid, feel like they're going to dismiss it. And that'll be really, really important for you to eliminate some of this chaos so that you can move forward in this amazing new venture. You're coming with. You know, she was in a business partnership, and it's. It was amazing and it ran its course. And, you know, sometimes when things come to an end, whether it's that relationship that, you know, you and I had the conversation about our business partnership that, you know, not only was a business, it was a friendship, you know, that was intertwined in that. It's hard to see, especially for a six when you're in the middle of uncertainty, how this is going to be a beautiful freaking thing.

Oh, my gosh. That's been the story of my life for the past. I don't know how many. How many months. And now I feel like, okay, I can, like kind of see, so that'll be a key.

So when my friend is kind of in the spiral and she doesn't want to hear Ms. Positivity pants over here and like, oh, my God, it's going to be beautiful on the other side of this, she's basically like, f you. This sucks. And I get it, I get it. But I want you to remember this moment. And I tell her, I'm like, where have you found evidence that on the other side of it, it was glorious and beautiful and exactly what needed to happen. She's like, every freaking time. So shut up. All right, Right. So I want you to remember when Uncertainty comes up and you start to feel like that anxiousness or nervousness or you're emotionally wrapped up in the web of that. Those two moments, two huge moments in this last year, really, on six, eight months out of it, you can see the beauty in it because you're starting something that is very near and dear to your heart. So tell people what you're doing. You went from this creative agency. Yeah. To a product.

Literally the craziest thing. So, yeah, I went from creative agency. I owned the agency and also work in the PR space in that agency. So I had all things public relations partnerships, all those really fun things. And as the agency has come to a close, I have decided to launch a feminine care product. I would have never in a million years imagine that I would be actually doing this. I've grown up having chronic UTIs my almost my whole life. And over the course of my 20s, I've been able to. To naturally kind of cure them. And I have found this huge gap, huge market in the feminine care space for clean products. And so I will be launching a feminine care line which never would have come out of, but it totally is a six thing.

Like, how can we strategically have something that prevents and keeps us healthy? And your wings, my sister, like, you're 7 Wing. Like, this is your innovator. Like, anything's possible. Like, no stupid idea. Like, your seven wing really came into place here. You might have even checked in with your seven first. And the six is like, oh, my God.

That'S amazing. And there's nobody better than a six to come up with a product line that, you know, fits a need that crosses all the T's and dots, all the I's. That is something that's really important in, you know, feminine health specifically. I love that for you.

Thank you.

How excited are you to have this information?

Oh, my gosh. I honestly feel like a weight lifted off of my shoulders right now. And I've been doing so much self work. And still through the self work, I think a lot of times we do the self work, but there's still things that don't make sense. And so I'm in that phase. I'm like, I'm doing the self work. I'm doing, you know, the therapy and the journaling and, you know, taking care of my body and my spirit and my soul and all these different things, but I'm like, it's still not making sense. So I feel like today is another. Another step towards things making sense. And I cannot thank you enough because this year has Just been so transformational for me and I'm trying to figure out so many different things, so seriously.

And I get that. Like, I mean, I've been through about nine therapists in my life, and I understood it all. Yeah, it wasn't connecting. And honestly, swear to the heavens and gods above, it all didn't click until I brought the framework of the Enneagram into it. I felt so seen, heard, and understood, which was refreshing and also very scary. It's also very vulnerable. But, like, that's where we're able to take all the information, integrate it, so we can actually have the transformation we're desiring in our life.

Oh, I love that.

I'm so proud of you. I'm so proud of you. Thank you for trusting me with this publicly here for the world to hear you. And I am confident that. That this information will help you unlock and make sense of a lot of the stuff that maybe hasn't before. And girlfriend, you know where to find me. You got me in speed dials.

I appreciate you so much and thank you so much for walking through this with me. Because honestly, if I would have continued to do this just virtually through a form, I would have been like, ah, that's not me. And this doesn't make sense. And I still have this sense about the Enneagram, but now I don't feel like it's. Woo. I feel like, oh, this, this actually sounds like me. And I can. I can get with it.

Well. And the good thing for a six who needs to have, like, even though you resist systems and stuff, this is a framework and a system that actually will allow you to have less chaos and more certainty in your life. That's what I liked about it too. Yeah. I was like, okay, all right, I can see this. Like, this makes a lot of sense. Instead of just like, I'm gonna manifest shit. Like, although that's great and everything. Like, but how.

Yes.

I don't see there.

Yeah, Ugly. Oh, I love it.

So where can people find you if they want to follow your journey and see what's up and follow.

I haven't released the name of my Feminine Caroline product yet, but it's very soon coming and. But in the meantime, you can follow me on my personal Instagram and it's at itsyourdestiny. Its U R Destiny D E S T I N E I am so.

Excited for what God has in stored for you and where that divine plan is going to take you. And I'm always here for you, little lady.

Thank you. I appreciate you so much and I love you dearly.

If you are a six out there and this resonated with you or you love Earlita 6 and all of a sudden you realize like maybe you were more like Tracy and not so compassionate about all their questioning. I hope that this really opened your eyes and and you have learned how to be more of a leader in your life with those you lead and love. And when people feel seen, heard and understood, that's when the real magic happens in connection and relationships and business. And the Enneagram can absolutely help you there. Tag us. Share this. Let us know you loved it. Des I love you so much hon.

Love you too.

I'm so happy you enjoyed the Leadership Formula podcast. Please help us spread the word about this show by sharing it with a friend and leaving a written Apple podcast review. If you have any follow up questions to this episode, you can DM me directly on Instagram at traceyomalley. You can also find additional resources on my website@traceeomalley.com I'm excited to lead you into the next level of your life.