EP186: Enneagram Couple Spotlight: Kacia (7) & Seena (3) Intentionally Growing TOGETHER Every Step of the Way

Welcome to the Leadership Formula podcast, where you will learn the secret sauce behind achieving massive success. I'm your host, Tracy o', Malley, multimillion dollar entrepreneur, your Enneagram expert, master performance coach, and mom to millennials. Do you want deep, meaningful relationships to wake up every day with purpose and make money doing something you love? Well, you've landed in the right place. Every week, I will teach you how to get exactly what you want in life by strengthening your emotional intelligence. Using a combination of the Enneagram framework, live life coaching sessions, and real talk from yours truly, it's time to transform yourself into the ultimate leader of your life. Let's do this thing.

All right, y'. All, You've been asking for this and we are bringing it to you. And I don't know if I could have picked a better couple to bring to you guys to explain the Enneagram and what that looks like in relationships. They're five months away from getting married, so. But they've been together 13 years, right? Is that how long you guys been together? And so really watching the elegance and beauty that you know, not just knowing your partner's Enneagram type, but full integration of it in a beautiful partnership. They also are both entrepreneurs and that kind of dynamic. So they work together, they love each other, they live together, they have sexy time together. And so knowing the motive of each of their core, at their core, and also their biggest fear can be something that is very powerful in creating a more intimate, connected relationship dynamic. That being said, you guys, you know, I know a lot of you listening so badly want your partner, your spouse, the people that you care about in your life to be on board with this Enneagram thing. And we were just kind of talking before I hit record about what that can look like. And the best way to really have others really be curious about what the Enneagram can do in their life is to embody it. And honestly, this couple embodies the beauty of the Enneagram and how to really integrate it in all aspects of her life and his life as well. He was educated to be a dentist. She's this free spirited, kind of serial entrepreneur who just like goes for it all the time in true enneagram 7 fashion. Sina is an enneagram 3, and we're going to dive into all the components of what that looks like. And even if you're not a seven or a three, this will prove to be very valuable because you'll see where typically they might be triggered by each other. Instead of using that to Go to war and pull out the boxing gloves and whatever else they may do within a relationship, they use it as an opportunity to grow together as a couple. You guys, Keisha and Sina, welcome to the show.

Tracy, so happy to be here.

To be here. Thanks for having us.

Oh, my gosh. Okay, so for those of you listening, Keisha has a podcast. It's only like three years old, right?

Yeah.

Like, over 3 million downloads already. Is that what we're at?

We're almost to four. We're like a week away from four.

Fucking insane. Like, so you can see the power of when a seven says, let's fucking go and let's try all the things. And the thing is, is in those three years, I am sure the dynamics of the podcast and what we talk about on any given day has changed. And for a lot of people that don't understand a seven.

Yeah.

And me raising one. You and I have talked at length about this. Like, I don't even understand that sometimes. And I know that being married to a three, that can be very triggering. To a three, it's like, pick something and crush it. And you've just chosen to pick whatever feels good in today and crush it. So. So what is. What is it like being a 7? They're both in their early 30s, just for reference, you guys, but they've been together since, you know, early 20s. What does that look like for you as a seven, first and foremost, and that ability to just say, gimme all the options, and I'm going for it.

Yeah. As a seven, it feels like I have a lot of tabs open in my brain or like squirrels dancing around often, and I have to figure out, like, what's the best thing right now that actually feels in alignment and actually get myself to focus in on one thing. The biggest challenge is, is I am a ninja at starting things. I'm an idea machine. I change my mind all the time, and I have to honor, like, what actually is the next best thing to do and doing life with the three who's very achievement focused of, like, Keisha, what's the goal? And I'm like, well, the goal is going to change tomorrow. Right? It's like figuring out how to really ask myself, like, what's going to be fulfilling, where I get to be a fully expressed version of myself and cause I can stay consistent with things that feel in alignment. So it's been really like, being a seven means trying things out and saying, nope, that's not for me. And almost like detaching from the outcome Because I'm so obsessed with the process of it and making sure that I'm like in this joy flow state that it's like I have to be willing to try something out and then move it to the side if it doesn't work and try something out again. Until I find something, then I can really be consistent. But it's. I have to find the right thing. Podcasting has been the right thing, but there's been a lot of evolutions in my career in business that been the wrong thing.

So one of, one of the struggles of 47 is this discernment, right. As far as, is this in alignment or am I fucking bored? Right. And, and really because the biggest fear of the seven is being in, you know, stuck in something or without options or in pain or they need the excitement. So how as a seven, Because I mean, we can justify any of our own bullshit.

Yep.

Any enneagram type can justify why they do what they do. So how, what is your process as a seven to go into? To discern whether I'm bored and this isn't doing it for me or this is not it.

Yeah. So part of it. So I make a lot of decisions very viscerally like I can feel it intuitively in my body, but what works really well for my brain is if I can play it out and see that it's opening up doors for a future version of me that's going to give me more options. Right. So if I feel like it's very, very narrow, then I get stuck in the idea of like, I'm going to have to do it this way for forever. But it's reminding myself that I can evolve. But things like, for example, in the entrepreneurial space, it's like building up a community around a podcast, for example. I can in my head think, okay, do this now. It's giving you options and all these different branches that can stem off from it. So normally the things that I stay consistent with and decide to keep going with is when I can convince myself that there's options later. And if I stay after it versus if I pick something that feels too linear or like suffocating of like, well, this is the way that you're going to have to do it for forever. Then I can get really anxious and really overwhelmed and I just want to just say screw it and just get away from all of it and just drop it and leave it. And that happens if I, if I don't play it out for myself of how it can create options. If I feel trapped, I'M screwed because then I start to panic and then I start to get really anxious or. Or then I go into this, like, you know, this one state of being, like, very neurotic and very out of character, where I notice it now. And like, I mean, you. You can pick up on it too. For when I'm like, why am I being so, like, neurotic about something that's not my personality? It's because I'm so stressed that I feel like I'm suffocated by not having options later. So the coping mechanism is really just to, like, play it out and think of, like, let me come up with five different ways that I could get out of this later or that I could give myself more options. And if I can figure out that connection, then I can stay after it.

So I get that professionally and something that came up with me, and I was thinking this before, but you just kind of, like, teed it up for me here.

Yeah.

So this, like, playing things out and having options, I get that career wise. And you've surrounded yourself and you've built that muscle to know, like, that's discernment. It's not avoidance. But when it comes to being in a relationship. Yeah. I, you know, as having a seven daughter and knowing that, like, not having options yet you're getting married. Like, I know that she, like, he is not caging this beautiful spirit that you have. But Cena, I want to ask you, knowing that she's got this insatiable need for options all the time. Yeah. Does that ever concern you? That, like, wow, like, either I kind of have to walk on eggshells and not speak my mind because if I remotely try to cage her, she's out. Or how do you navigate her need for options all the time, but in a committed relationship, like, you know, unless, I mean, I don't know, maybe you guys have an open relationship. I don't know. I thought so, but I was, like, not going to assume. But yeah. Like, how do you navigate that for her without caging her and with, you know, honoring who you are too.

Yeah.

And being in a relationship with her like that, as far as, like, our relationship, she's never wanted more options with other people, but, like, she wants options of, like, a family life in the future, of, like, creating the strong family ties together, something that we neither of us had in our families. So navigating that is, is how can we together, create those options as a family together in the future, but professionally and like, you know, in a relationship with her, with her business and everything. It's early on was hard for me to understand the options thing of no, I want to do this now, now this, now this, now this. And being at a three achiever focus coming from very linear path. Like you mentioned, I was trained as a dentist where it's very clear what you have to do. And it's a 10 year process from start to finish and there's just steps that you do. It's not really a lot of looking around and figuring out what you want to do. You have it all laid out in front of you. So when early on, in case she's career in corporate world, when she was no, I'm going to quit this job. No, not for me. I'm like, they just gave you a promotion. If you stay on this track for the next 10 years, then we're going to have like this cool life. You're have this title, you're going to be president of this division. And then it was. You went to a different job and then you stay there and then the same thing happened and then you would leave and go to. You always have pivoted finding yourself in different jobs, but you were in the wrong industry. You're an entrepreneur at heart. And I know your drive to have options is to just. You want to be in alignment and you've worked so hard at pivoting that.

But her question of how do you navigate that then?

Because you're not driven, you're not driven.

The same way as me. So how. I mean, I know how you do it, but like to explain to anyone that's doing life with a seven or that has a friend that's a seven, like we're confusing. Like how do you.

Very confusing.

Yeah. How do you, how do you manage that?

At first I was hard to manage, but I just let you play it out and I let you go down the path and support you in ways of like not trying to make you feel trapped in anything.

Were you afraid that like you were with somebody ever that was like, like all over the place and could never be focused and never like that. Because I know as a three like you guys are so like see the goal, hit the goal, crush the goal, blinders on, nothing else matters. And you know the seven is the epitome of like the squirrel, like shiny object. Were you, were you concerned, like building a life early on? Like, yeah, you guys are great. But early on where you're like, what? Who am I building a life with right here? She's gonna rock the boat a little too much for my Liking.

I was never, like, worried too much in that. I kind of liked it because it was, like, more exciting. Yeah, it always kept me on my toes and my linear path is just very straightforward. So it was always nice to have a little bit of excitement in there. But I learned to kind of navigate how to approach her and how to support her best when she is kind of squirreling well, you actually like that.

The thing that's worked really well for us too is, like, because I can stay focused and I am still very driven towards things and I'm picking the right things. I can get on board with the goal aspect, so then we can vibe on that and then you can get on board with this, like, creative lifestyle of options. So it's almost like we can lean a little bit into both of those strengths where I'm like, oh, I need a goal. Because I've decided in my head when I have a goal, I'm not going to be as anxious, so I can be focused a little bit more. And then it just take out a couple of options for a second so I can focus. And Tina helps, like, in a way of, like, it's going to be fun for you to have this structure so you can have more freedom. Right. And I'm like, ooh, yeah, that vibes.

And kind of like playing it out. Right. Like, no case if you do this, you actually have more options in the future and kind of showing her the path. Because I'm so forward thinking, you know, I'm always trying to. And that's too much. You know what I mean? I'm on the other end of the spectrum where I try to play it out every little step along the way. Now. I'm definitely working a lot on that right now and kind of just trusting my gut and going with it. Yeah. And Keisha, we're kind of like meeting in. In the middle. Almost like, Casey was beautiful. One side where, you know, you're like, I want options, options, options, you know, and always jump in. And I was on the other side. I was like, do one thing for 20 years, then we'll have options. Oh, there's a way we can meet in the middle, where you keep me flexible and kind of fluid, but I would keep you on a path, too. And together we're creating this path that's in the middle.

That's what it is, really. It feels like it's in the middle right where it feels like it's. It works really well.

I think raising a seven because I'm more wired. Like, even though I'M an eight. I'm wired more like, like, tactical and, like, crush the goals and do the things. And raising a seven, I was like, oh, my gosh. But she keeps me innovative and visionary. Like, and I can help kind of say, okay, but this is like, you want freedom and options. Just like, let's get into your container for a short time, not forever, not even for like three months. Let's just stay here and. But they also. The gift of having a seven in your life is just like, anything's possible.

She showed me that with my rigid, like, I can stay on something, but she showed me how to be, like, more free and combining that together, that how far I can actually go as a human and like, live up to my full potential.

So, yeah, for sure.

Like, if you just stay on this just a little bit more, it's. It's not trapping you just like, come on, let's focus on this. But you get to be free within these boundaries. Right? Like, you're gonna go. Like, it's gonna explode.

Well, and I think that's really important to say too, is how we reframe it. Because, like, I always, when I'm dealing with a three, like, listen, I'm gonna slow you down, but only to speed you up towards the goal. Like, I have to speak in that language. And same thing with the seven. Like, hey, listen, let's have some focus right here, but for a very short amount of time so you can have all the options later. Yeah. Like how you frame that and the energy in which you approach it, it's like that has all the validity in the world when it comes to using this beautiful tool in your life. So a lot of times I'll have people that want their partner to take the Enneagram test or the assessment, and you and I both know, like, those are wrong a lot of the time.

What would you say to a husband or a wife or a partner or somebody that really wants to know what my partner is? What are some do's and don't with introducing the Enneagram within a relationship or partnership that you guys can recommend? Because as equally as powerful and beautiful and elegant as this tool is, when used with the wrong come from, it can be a weapon or. Or manipulation too.

Yeah, yeah, I think, you know, we get that question. A lot of, you know, how did. How did Sina get on board with this and other businesses too, that Keisha's done? And a lot of it is Keisha just. She showed me what's possible and why she's doing something you know, whether it's a business or the Enneagram, she kind of showed why she likes it, talk to me about it, but never forced it upon me to get on board not to do this or take this. And then as you were showing me, it kind of evolved where I got curious, you know, whether it was your first business or your. The Enneagram or anything else.

Yeah.

You know, you've always just shown the way. And as I get curious, you welcome me in, but you don't like, smother me right away. You're like, let me kind of work at my own pace. And that's been the most helpful thing is not forcing, letting, letting me just kind of grow into it. And as I, I kind of go off the deep end when I get into something, I'm like, all in. So that it doesn't take very long for me to be super committed. That's just my personality. But I think that's one of the biggest things that's helped.

And for me, I just think I get really excited about things. And I could explain to him like, how it was changing how I felt like, oh, you know, like I get that anxious feeling sometimes, like when I get overwhelmed, like, is making me understand myself. Oh my gosh, I'm so excited about it. So it's like, of course I know instantly, like, I want you to take this. But I also know him, right? So I'm like, if I come at him this way, like, he's not going to be excited about it. Let me just tell him how this is totally changing my life and how I'm so feeling so much more, like, excited. And I'm feeling like I understand myself better and I know him and he's an achiever, which means he wants to understand himself better so he can achieve more. So I'll just say this is fun and fulfilling, but this is also helping me stay focused. And then all of a sudden it's like, oh, you're focus.

Yeah, I'll disclaimer though, but for someone that's like achiever focused at first, it's hard to buy in until you see it play out in real life. So when I saw like, either whether it's like doing personal development and then I use like a tool and then I'm like, oh, wait, this works. Or I learn about the three, I'm like, oh, wait, that's me. You know, until I saw it play out, I, I. That book got me more like bought in.

Yeah, Yeah, I feel the same way. And I think like, I've told people, like, it's really like, once you kind of drink the Enneagram Kool Aid and you kind of feel. Even the first time I do a typing session with somebody and they. They're like, oh, my gosh, I feel so seen, heard, and understood for the first time in my life. And I understand that that can be exciting. And what I usually will tell people is, like, your first thing is to know the way for yourself, know the way you got to know not just the way and how you operate, but how others might receive you. Then you have to actually go the way and live it before you can start really showing the way and inviting other people into the process. And you guys really show what that looks like so beautifully because, yeah, you knew if you said, this is fun and fulfilling. He's like, yeah, bottom line, me, how. How is this gonna help me crush goals? Right? Yeah.

How do I get there faster?

Well, because I knew, but because I didn't tell him what I thought he was. But I. I just. I was like, I think this is what he is. Like, there's. There's no way he's not this. I'm, like, looking at the fears and I'm like, this is Dina. But I'm not going to tell him because I want to make sure that he gets to figure it out. And so I could just play into it, right?

You read yours, and I'm like, wait, that's literally you. What do you mean? That's a number. That's like. That's you to a T. Something like, I wonder what I am, you know, and then it just kind of goes there, and then you get to like each other in memes, and then it's like, great. It's the best.

Yeah. When you start speaking in memes and TikTok videos based on, it's just so great. So, Sina. I can only imagine that, you know, your whole life, not only are you wired this way to be, like, driven and achiever, like, and then, you know, the culture in which you grew up in and the household you grew up in, like, reinforce that, Right? And so then you're on this path to become a dentist. Did you always want to become a dentist or was that just kind of like, this is the goal. We just put the blinders on and go for it. And at what point did you get into it and you're like, oh, shit, this is not what I want to be doing. I mean, for an achiever to pivot at 32, 33 years old as an achiever is like, oh my gosh, a come to Jesus moment here. So when did you start recognizing. Oh, I maybe pick this because it's just what we do or talk to. Because there's a lot of people that are wired like this and then they're in it, but they're like, I can't risk not being great at something. And oh my gosh, I'm going to be a husband and my family, what are they going to think? How do you navigate all those moving parts?

Oh, man, this is fresh, Tracy. This is like.

I know it is, honey.

This is a fresh wound. Let's go.

I'm here for it and I'm here for you. So let's have at it.

So I'm Persian, so my culture, it is looked at like lawyer doctor, engineers, just highly sought out after and being like a first generation. And I was like the achiever of my family too, out of my cousins and everything. And being an only child.

You the golden boy, right? Like the golden boy.

My parents had good intentions. You know, they want, they want a safe, secure life for me. And that's what they knew at their time of what to do is, you know, lawyer doctors is very highly sought out after and they want you to be. They want their kids to have a good life. And that was the traditional way. So it wasn't that they forced me, but it was kind of felt that way. So.

Well, and what's a good life is interpretation, right?

Exactly.

That's what, that's the key difference. So, you know, when I was in college, I was like, very narrow minded. And even my options, I didn't even look at anything else. I was like, which one of these areas am I going to go into? And at the time it sounded great. And what I knew about the field and shadowing and learning more about it. I was like, yeah, I could do this. I'm like, and I'm going to be a bajillionaire when I'm done. Because, like, that's just what you do, right? News flash, you're not. Student loans are very expensive. That's a different story. So going through it, I liked it because I like learning. You know, I like, I liked school. So, like, that was my jam. I like learning, I like growing.

Because he's good at it.

He's good at it. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I can take tests all day. It doesn't even, it's not even hard for me. You know, I can do the studying and so I graduate dental school and I'm feeling good I'm like, okay, now I can go like, be a dentist, make a ton of money, and it's going to be super easy and I'm going to be set right. I did all the hard part. And like, that hit me in the face real quick. First job out, I'm like, oh, whoa. I'm working in this high volume clinic. I'm like, hours are crazy. I'm seeing a ton of patients and the money is like. It's actually not even that it was okay, but I was like, oh, wow, the money doesn't like fulfill me. And I'm like, the job isn't fulfilling. Cause I was like, I thought I was going to be just working with patients and just kind of joking around and everything's like super easy, but it's actually more stressful than I thought. I don't feel like I'm crushing it, but I'm like, okay, maybe I'm fresh out of school. Maybe I just need a couple years. I'll catch my flow and then it'll be good. And then we moved to Austin. I get a new job, and by all standards, it's everything I wanted to. Good hours, good pay, no weekends, no nights, good assistance, good patients, only seeing like, like half the amount I was seeing at the other clinic. So I'm like, oh, this is what I wanted. Here we go. Like, this is, this is it. This is going to be it. You know, from an external validation point, the title didn't fulfill me. I'm like, I don't, like I'm a doctor, but like, it didn't fulfill me. I was making good money at this new clinic, but that didn't really fulfill me. And I was sitting there and I'm like, oh man. Like, I don't feel like I'm growing. I don't feel like I'm learning. I don't want to own a clinic. I know what this is going to be like for the next 30 years. And I'm like, did I just make like the biggest mistake ever? Right? Like, I just spent 10 years, wow, becoming a dentist, hoping that subconsciously that the external validation and money and stuff was going to fulfill me, you know? And it didn't. And I'm like, oh boy, we got a problem. And I had to really ask myself, am I going to stay in this because I worked so hard to get here and just sacrifice for the next 30 years, or am I going to just take what I've learned and chalk it up as a lesson and really start tapping into who do I want to be as a person. What do I want my career to look like, what I want it to feel like, More importantly, because it didn't feel good. It wasn't one single thing. I got to the end of the day and I'm like, man, this isn't it. Like, your gut was just. It was just telling me. And I made the call. I was. Acacia came home from it. She was on a business trip. And I was like, keisha, I think I want to leave dentistry. Like, I'm in the best possible scenario, and I still don't like it. I come home emotionally exhausted. It's not for me, not fulfilling. And I was like, I think I need to take a break and figure out. Because I was blinders on for 10 years.

Yeah.

I didn't even have a chance to look on the outside to see what else might be a better fit for where I want to go, like, in the future. Right. Like, I was 25 when I started dental school. Like, I changed. You changed so much in those years.

Totally.

And I felt like I was trapped in this box that I couldn't go where I wanted. Yeah.

Well, and this is the beauty of being with an enneagram 7, too, because I'm sure she was like, no problem. Let's. Let's figure it out. And I literally was like, quit tomorrow.

Call him right now. It's like midnight. Just call him.

And although, like, thank God for that, I do believe, like, you know, we're put with the right partners at the right time for the right reasons. That being said, you still come from a Persian background with a family that may not get that.

Oh, yeah.

They probably think you've lost your ever love and fucking mind.

Yeah.

And how are you navigating that? Because the achiever in you really so much of your validation and worth comes even the healthiest of threes. It stings every damn time. Like there's judgment or like, I'm not the best at something, or the golden boy has fallen from his throne now. Like, how do you navigate that? Because that's real life shit. Yeah, that's real life shit.

Yeah. I mean, you're totally being a guy.

And being a guy on top of it.

Totally. Yeah. And I just really had to be honest with myself that I'm not driven by external validation.

Thank God.

And it doesn't feel good like I thought it would. And it's. I can lie to myself if I want, but that's not going to get me the marriage that I want, the family life I want. Like, I'm doing a disservice to Keisha. I'm doing a disservice to our future kids. I'm doing a disservice to myself. Like, I want to. I care more about what I feel than what it looks like from the outside, what they think it should feel like. Because everyone's like, what do you mean? Like, you work so hard to get there. What are you doing? You make a ton of money, this and that. It's like, that doesn't matter.

Yeah. That's what feeds an unhealthy 3. And they do wake up one day feeling, what is all of this for? I keep moving the finish line, and it's never satisfying. And so, so proud of you for that. And I know, like, you. You've recently lost your father, too, which. That. That was a catalyst. Change for me, too, is like, wait a second. Who am I really doing all of this for? Why am I like. And, you know, all of our parents. I'm a parent. We do the best we can. Very rarely, unless we're crazy, do we ever intend to, you know, hold our children back or hurt them. But I know in losing a parent, it really shifts perspective about what's really, really important. And your dad left this earth with a lot of achieving, but I'm sure if your dad were sitting here in on this conversation, you would have traded it all for time. And you're kind of rewriting and breaking that pattern within your family and for your family. So, like, how do you. Because although we get that, we can feel that, we can get that, but it's still ingrained into you. But who am I without what I do? And so to decide to hang up your dentistry cap, and I know you're planning to use those skills in a beautiful, nonprofit way, which I freaking love that. But when you come home and you're like, yep, I just quit. Although that was probably exciting in the moment. Like, when does the shame hit come for you? That's very real.

Totally. Yeah. And, I mean, there's a lot of guilt, first off, to even come to that decision, because I know there's a lot of people, lawyers, accountants, you know, these people that go to ex. Like psychologists, go to more schooling. There's this guilt that naturally comes with, well, I went to school for it, so I have to do it for the rest of my life. And fundamentally, as humans, like, that doesn't even make sense. Like, you can't you change so much? And.

And I'm on version 6.0 at this point. 50. Like, seriously, like, I've got six different.

Lives, but, I mean, there are people that are. You can meet them. And you're like, you should be doing exactly that. I have a lot of friends in dentistry. I'm like that. You are crushing it. You are meant to do that. That is your thing. And thank God we have those people out there and in their respective field. But for me, it was just reframing what achieving is. Right? Like, it's more like full circle than just what my job is and the label I put on myself. And obviously, you know, with Keisha, she helps a lot with that. You know, we. We have a lot of development around that, but it's really knowing I'm more than just my title, which, as a three, is hard to. Because it's easy to just, like, flex the title and feel good about it, right? And I think that happens a lot. We use our title in society as a buffer or a band aid to how we're really feeling. But seeing how much Keisha loves her job, she loves what she does every day, and I'm seeing that every day, and I'm almost. I'm just envious of that. I'm like, I'm never going to get to a point with dentistry that I love it that much. I love parts of it, for sure. But, like, I was a passionate, like Keisha was about her job, and I'm like, wow. I think everyone can get to that point, but I'm trapped in this. That's not going to get. That's. I know I don't want this. So staying in it longer is not going to fix the issue. So that's why pulling the cord so early on, you know, three years out of school, people are like, whoa, like, you just got out. Like, I'm like, But I already know that's not it. You know, it's not serving me.

So many people are telling him that, too, because we're talking about it like. Or like, I'm a dentist, too, or I went to school with, like, people that went to school.

I got messages from old classmates, like, man, I was feeling this, too. I didn't know how to, like, word it. I just feel guilty for even thinking this because I spent all this money and time, and they're like, how'd you do it? I'm like, I. I just did it. I mean, I just left. I mean, fortunately, like, we're in a situation. We can do that with the business and everything, and it's evolving exactly how we want it. I'm finding a passion for something else now. And because I opened up that space because if I didn't leave, there's no way I was going to have that space for me to evolve and find that out.

It's funny too, because in our day to day life, because I know he's a three, I don't celebrate him for the things that he does.

Bingo.

Right? I celebrate, oh my gosh, I'm so proud of you for going to that. Because now he's interested in real estate investment. I'm like, I'm so proud of you for stepping outside your comfort zone and going to a real estate meetup where you had to meet up with strangers that you didn't know. Like, who are your friends? Like, who'd you meet? And it's like, I'm not clapping for you from what you did. Like, oh, great, you're. Yes. You're halfway done with your real estate license now and you found this new thing that you're excited about. Great. But I'm like, I'm proud of you for like talking to your therapist about this. Like, that's amazing. Like, that you're opening up about this. And so I know not to celebrate the winds of the accomplishments because society's already doing that to all of us as humans, whether you're a three or not.

Correct.

Like, we don't need any more of that. I'm like, I'm going to talk about who you are.

You know, I think that is so, so important because I mean, me and threes, like, they get so mad at me because I won't give them the atta boys and atta girls for what they do achieve or how they appear, but I will. And they're like, yeah, but didn't I do a good job? I'm like, your heart's so damn beautiful. And they're like, give me the crack. Right?

But I love that you won't feed the unhealthy part of him. And he also earlier when he was talking about you kind of, you know, riffing about all the different ide, like, great, like, let's pick three and focus on it. Like, and let's kind of streamlight like, you won't feed her insatiable need for all the things at all the times. And like, that's the beauty and responsibility in using this. That being said too, like, each side has like not the healthiest part of them and you know, the darker side. Right. And that's usually where trouble happens in a relationship. So four or seven, when you feel, you know, suffocated, trapped Caged when they feel like they're not measuring up. Like, that can be very triggering for each other. How do you guys navigate when one or both of you are in a not so pretty place? And knowing how you would handle it is different than how this person would handle it? And how do you kind of move through that?

Yeah, I mean, for me, if I feel stuck or trapped, I just want to escape it, because I can't. I just, like, I can't handle the negative emotion, but I can't sit. I don't enjoy sitting in negative emotions at 17. Witty. But what really helps me that he does is like, hey, I don't. I don't like you because you're high vibe energy, doing great all the time. Like, I'm down for this version too. Like, let's explore what's coming out. Let's go for a walk. Let's verbally process this. Like, just get all the shit out. Like, let's just talk about all the shit, and let's just dig through it. So, like, he creates. He helps me create the space to have all of the negative emotions and then encourages the negative emotions, which is something that I naturally want to avoid. We're seeing as, like, I don't think you're so great just because you're. Because people like you, that you're optimistic and you're high vibe energy. Like, I want the full spectrum. So, like, let's talk about the shit. And when he creates that space, it makes me feel so comforted to be in that where, like, you don't just like me because of what a lot of other people see Sevens as. Like, oh, you're fun and, like, you're this energy spark and all this stuff, but you like the fact that, like, I'm scattered and I feel overwhelmed, and now I'm doubting myself because I feel trapped. I want to just run away. But you're like, no, no, no, you're not running away because, like, hey, I'm here with you when it's crappy, too. Let's sit with all of that. And that is the number one best possible thing. And I noticed that, like, you know, because my mom is a seven, and she, to me, will call me out if I'm not in a high vibe mode. And that really doesn't work well for me. I get very frustrated by it. Like, are you okay? You're not excited about right now? I'm like, mom, I'm literally just focused, right? And seems like Tina will always be like, hey, you're focused, right? Now, like, you get in the zone. You don't need to tell me what's going on. You're good.

Well, and I think him doing that too, because I do that with my daughter too. And she's complained before. Like, everybody expects me to be like that. And she's like, you allow me to be me. And what that does when you have a seven, and he's doing this so beautifully, is it actually gives you the confidence that you can actually handle the harder things, the overwhelm, a little bit better. It builds your confidence to know that you don't have to escape it all the time. Now, on the flip side, you guys are in the heat of this because he has walked away. He is learning something new. And although it's exciting at times, I'm sure Sina, there's moments where you're like, I'm just. I'm terrible. Like, who the hell am I? And how do you guys really stay positive on that? Because it's not always like, yay, I'm learning new things, and, yay, I'm in my. I'm out of my comfort zone. He's like, that's fucking great, but I feel like a loser right now.

Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, it's nice. You announce, I'm leaving. I'm gonna go follow my passion. And everyone says that, but, like, the reality is day to day is hard. There's a lot of ups, and there's still a lot of downs. Like, even when I this first happened, I had a hard time just, like, putting it into words, like, of what I'm doing, like, coming up with the lingo around it and how I'm explaining this and sorting out my thoughts. And early on, Keisha was like, you did a really good job, like, explaining that to that person. You're doing. You're getting more comfortable, like, in your. In your zone, and you're noticing things. Like, you're recognizing me for doing things I wouldn't, quote, unquote, normally do. So, for example, I went to a real estate meetup in Austin the other week. I didn't know anyone. I just saw that it's not online. This was happening, and I was like, keshe, I think I need to go to this.

That's awesome.

I'm a beginner. I don't have any properties. I think everyone. I walk into this place, everyone is a mogul of real estate.

Of course.

Loser. That, like, doesn't even, like, own a place, Right? So all these thoughts are going through my head as I go, and that's the uncomfortable feeling of being new again. But you did a really good job of just, like, praising that. Of, like, embracing the new, embracing the, like, being a rookie again. And as a three. That sucks.

It does.

You know what I mean? It's. Oh, man. But I know I'm gonna get there one day.

No doubt about it.

Keep that in my mind. I'm not in, like. Like I mentioned Acacia, like, I feel like I got dropped in an ocean and I can swim really well, but I don't know where to go. I don't know which way to go. I was just on this linear path for so long that said swim this way, but I went to an island that didn't even. I didn't want to go to.

I'm getting so emotional just listening to you two. Because this is so beautiful and important. When we are in relationship, you know, especially the most intimate parts of us, with whatever romantic partner we pick, like, really wanting the best of and for the person that we're with, even. And especially if it doesn't. If it's not wired the same way as ourselves. And that's so beautiful that you both do that so wonderfully for each other. And I'm watching both my kids that are in their 20s in relationships that are pretty serious do the same thing. I'm like, oh, hallelujah. If I had had this information 28 years ago when I was getting married, my God, this would have looked very, very different. I probably would have picked somebody else, too. But that's another story. So that being said, also, like, you guys have been together for a long time. You're building beautiful lives that are independent and together and so care deeply about each other and transitioning into what a family will look like for you. And the chances are, you guys, I'm just going to tell you right now, you're going to get the children or child or whatever you guys end up with that are here to teach you something most about yourself. And most likely, it won't be sevens and threes that you guys. Yeah, Offspring. Have you guys talked about what that looks like? I mean, Sina, especially you, because, you know, there was so much influence on. This is what we do when we're Persian, and this is what we do in this, like, family. And Keisha, you're experiencing, like, hey, you kind of got this, like, why aren't you this high vibing, kind of like anything goes person with your family. Have you guys talked about what this looks like as parents in the future?

Yeah, I mean, I think that we've we. I mean, obviously we don't know what our kids will be like, but I think what we've realized is we both double down on our strengths really well, where we're like, we together are so excited to co. To like parent a human because it's like, ooh, this is going to be what you're going to bring to the table. This is what I'm going to bring to the table. And then we're going to have to learn all this other stuff of how we do this together. But like, I mean, we're excited about the idea. Like, it's cool to think about. Like, and also I'm just excited because I know how helpful it's been for me to have seen it, understand me on such a deep level that I know that we're going to have the same intentionality because we both come from divorced families. We've both had people in our families that are, have had addiction issues and things like that, where we're like, okay, what we're doing now and like, how we're setting this framework is like we're doing some lineage changing shit. Which means we want to know ourselves so well, know how to support ourselves and put our marriage first first and then pour into developing these, these little humans that we want to create. And like, it makes me excited to think about the constant evolution that we'll get to have together too. You know, which is like, fun.

Yeah. I think that like we've. We were talking about what the Enneagram is and you know, you're born, you, your type is with you your whole life. It doesn't change. And then we're dropped into these families, environments, school systems, situations that can alter how that gets experience expressed. And I think that if all three of us kind of look back at when we were like four or five years old, we started to kind of start to acknowledge and realize that, ah, oh, this is how I get significance. Oh, this is how I have certainty. Oh, this is what I get rewarded for. And who we're wired to be all of a sudden starts to express differently to get those needs met. Right. I think as like the greatest gift my, you know, and I didn't know this information until my kids were in their early teens. And so you can kind of do the math. There was some years there that I didn't understand how to bring out the best in them because I didn't understand myself a lot of the time. And I gotta say, like, as a parent today with kids in their 20s, that the number one thing that they both say to me without fail, is like, I never felt like I had to be anything but who I am, and that you could support and empower that version of whoever I am. And that, like I said, they're not an eight, they're two and a seven. Totally different, you know, centers of intelligence, even. And I think it's going to be a beautiful gift that you guys. I think whether you love the Enneagram or not out there, you guys like knowing that your child is probably going to be wired in a very different way than you in a way that you may lack, and it may be why it's so triggering. Yeah, parenting is no joke, that's for sure.

We're going to be like, auntie Tracy's coming over to help us.

I got you. I got you. So you guys are, you know, you're getting married, you're living in Austin now. What do you guys see the next five or so years looking like? Because, you know, I. I mentioned you guys, I'm at version 6.0. You guys are probably 2 or 3.0 at this point. Like, what do you guys see happening into the future? And I mean, you've. You've both experienced a lot of hard things, even in recent. Recent years. And, like, what do you see moving forward and how you're going to navigate that?

Yeah, we're moving to Denver after we get married, which we're very excited about. I envision us being a ski family with matching outfits and having. And I want to build my company. And I'm really. Actually, it's interesting because, like, and for anyone that's not on board with Enneagram, it's like, you got to just get on board. Because I know now when I go into a growth state, the things that I can tap into. So sevens going to fives, right, where, like, I can get focused. And I can start to ask myself, like, what are the stories that I told myself about what I'm capable of? What are the stories that aren't serving me and how can I kind of tap into that? And I want to build. I want to build up my company and really step into this CEO role and kind of drop some of these stories that are like, I'm. I'm too scattered to do that. I'm all over the place. I'm. It's like, no, like, my shit's together. When I'm focused, I can tap into that eight way. I'm like, go back stopping me, right? So I think I see, like, a lot of just evolution of Us individually, and obviously you can answer this too, but like, of us individually growing things that we're really passionate about while simultaneously, like, just growing in our relationship and having a lot of experiences. I mean, we definitely want to have kids. Like, we'd like to have two kids, if that's possible. And just a lot of evolution and giving back to people and just like, being an example of people that change their mind and constantly evolve. I want to put their marriage first. Like, that's very important to me because I didn't see examples of that. And I think that was one of the biggest intentional decisions. And why I don't feel stuck in my relationship is I'm like, I'm picking the right person. And if it takes a long time for me to be on board with getting married, like, okay, fine, I'm on board now. Thirteen years in, like, let's go. So I see a lot of just evolution.

Yeah.

Yeah. I think we've had this relationship for 13 years and we've done really well together. This is the first time I feel like we're both finding our flow at the same time, which we've never experienced before. It's always been either one or the other. And me now realizing, like, I haven't even, like, stepped into. Like, I haven't dropped the baggage that I needed to drop and understand.

I have goosebumps all over you guys. I'm so excited.

Like, even these past few weeks, we've just been like, this feels different. We're really focusing on what is our life going to feel like and not what it looks like. We're asking ourselves really tough questions of what. Like, we're dropping things that aren't serving us. Whether it's business relationships, friend. Like, we're just only surrounding ourselves with high quality people. Like, we're making really intentional decisions about who we're surrounding ourselves with, what we're surrounding, like, our environment with, and really stepping into what we want it to feel like. So these next five years, I'm super excited because we've never had this flow state.

It's so amazing.

I'm excited to see it's going to be an explosion. Like, I have no doubt.

Like, no doubt.

I mean, we're building a rocket ship and we're going to cyberspace. We're just going out.

I have no doubt. Like, one of the things that I've talked about and you've kind of touched on it, especially Acacia, a lot, you know, I talk about having the right tool for the job makes things a heck of a Lot easier. And our core type is the tool we know inside and out. It's kind of like we all know how to use a screwdriver, but sometimes we need a chainsaw, and sometimes we need a drill. But if we don't know how to use them, we're just going to pick up the damn screwdriver, right? And our wings are the unsung heroes of all of this. And the wings are the only thing that allow us to move into growth. So you, as a seven, have an eight and a six wing. And you, Sena, as a three, have a two and a four wing. I want you to explain how you guys both use your wings in order to step into this flow version that you're both in right now. Because I know I have threes and sevens listening, and they're like, that does not sound like me at all. And how you've really been able to step into who you guys are today is honestly, whether you know it or not, has everything to do with your wings. So I'm curious for the. The people that are listening to hear the power of the wings in your life and how it has allowed you to step into this beautiful spot that you guys are in today.

For me, it's the eight. Like, if I can, like. Like, it's really tapping into that eight side most often, where it's like, once I make a decision, I'm like, I can do this. Like, watch out here. I'm gonna go. Like, it's like the strength of the eight, when I tap into that, that's normally, like, my. My go to. That helps so much where I'm like, have you.

Have you troubleshooted with your six first or. Not really.

Not really. I just feel like a lot of times it just works for me well to tap into that eight side of, like, I can do this on my own. Like, let's freaking go. That works really well. I don't. I guess the six is kind of.

Like, oh, that's your CEO right there is your six.

Yeah, it's like, which is kind of where I'm, like, stepping now of, like, okay, like, give myself this, like, space to critically think through things. Because when I go into the eight, it's like, I get shit done. And that's what's worked for me up to this point is like, I'll really be a seven or kind of tap into that eight.

Well, they're both the assertive. They're both assertive types, so it's easy for you to move to the eight, but that six for you will be your troubleshooting CEO. Part of you, for sure.

Yeah. Which is, like, current state.

Yeah. That's what I'm learning to navigate.

And I feel it. And, like, at first, I have resistance because, like, you're to your point. Like, those aren't tools that I normally grab onto, but I'm like, oh, wait a second. I'm getting a lot of clarity by, like, slowing down and being like, wait a second. I can think critically through this. So ask me in two months. I'm gonna be like, this is me and my six. This is how we work. But, like, my go to is the eight of, like, I'll just muscle through it. And also, it comes from, like, your. Your point of, like, the coping mechanism, too, wanting this certainty where, like, I can tap into that A. I'm like, oh, you're not certain. I can go get my own certainty. I'll just go get it done myself. Right. And I can tap into that so well. But I'm learning. I'm currently learning how to use the six.

Yeah. It'll be your game changer. Because then what happens is, like, when that seven can go to that six troubleshoot, it's like, okay. And then the eight's like, let's fucking go. And it's like fire. Like, you're gonna notice, like, you're just, like, on steroids. That rocket ship's gonna go even faster if you slow down enough to troubleshoot. I love. I'm so excited. Cause I can see it all playing out for you. It's just so magical. What about you, Sina, with your wings, the two and the four?

I'm tapping more into my two right now with, like, Relationships Helper. Just trying to, like, really strengthen. That's something I haven't really been great at tapping into, like, previously. Like, I'm really focusing on. On relationships. What I can do to nurture those while still having my three. Like, driving it. So really focused on that, Working with others, keeping up with relationships, growing those with us, with. With friends, everything like that. So not really having too much into my four.

Actually, you have. And you didn't even know it, like, this whole decision that four, although they're kind of known as the creative, the artistic part of you, the core drive for the four. Even though you're not motivated, like a four, you can tap into this part of you that it's like the most authentic, unique part of who you are. It's the most intuitive type on the Enneagram. And you coming home saying, I think I made A mistake. And this isn't what's for me. You actually been using your four wing in this decision making process process all along, which is so beautiful. It's like for you, like the four is like the final filter. Is this really what I want to do? Even though, like I'm getting the attaboys and like the yay cena, I'm amazing. If the 4 is saying, you know what, this is not what we're called to do. Like the four actually drove all of this for you.

Believe it or not, subconsciously, it was there.

Yeah, it was. It was there the whole time. And the more that you really flex that muscle, it's going to be beautiful. And who knows what you guys will be doing in 10 years and how your mogul empire, real estate portfolio and billion downloads in the podcast land, and just this beautiful heart centered work that you both do to help people break patterns, change their life, step into the ultimate leader in their life. I just cannot wait to watch you both shine.

Thank you.

You're the best.

Oh my God, you guys. What is the last thing for that are like, yeah, okay. This Enneagram is not just cool memes. Oh my gosh. This enneagram thing. What. What would you tell people do other than to come find me and, and figure it out with me? What would you tell them to do with the Enneagram?

Like, you need to figure out who you are. Like, you gotta figure out what your number is. Because it's just, I don't think there's any better gift than like self awareness and understanding how you're motivated. It just, it helps me as someone who wants the certainty. Like, I just feel so happy being me. And I feel like I can be even more me because I understand how to catch myself if I'm falling into something. That won't serve me too. Like, it's just this self awareness just helps me kind of course correct. So that I can live as fulfilled as I can be. Which doesn't mean that I will always be happy. I'll have the contrast. But I feel like I believe in my ability to figure it out because I can navigate more tools. So like just, you gotta like, just figure out your type. It doesn't matter in my opinion. Figure out everybody else's later. Like, know yourself because gosh, it just, just feels so good and so like, you just feel like you have more, more control of like how to go through life. Like, it's just been so such a good tool for me, you know?

Yeah, I like using it as like, not an excuse to, like, accept the behavior that you're doing and really asking yourself, okay, that's fine. Yeah, three has an achiever tendencies. Right. Which is great. It's not a bad thing. But are you abusing it and just writing it off as, oh, it's okay. It's because I'm a three.

Yeah.

But, like, is that serving you and then really thinking about it and then is that serving where you want to go and just use it as a tool to learn more about yourself, like you said, but and also as a tool to know if they're abusing your behavior and if that's going to serve you for where you want to go.

Yeah.

Gosh, I freaking love that. I always say you can't use it as a weapon or a wall, like a weapon, you know, against somebody else. Like, oh, that's so three. Or, you know, a weapon against yourself. And also, like you said, like, this is just the way I am. Deal with it. I love that. I know you guys have been asking for, like, relationship enneagram. It is probably next to parenting the number one question I get. So, you guys, thank you so much for coming and sharing so openly about what this looks like. And for those of you listening, yes, Keisha is 100% right. Getting your type right to use this powerful tool is the number one thing to do. I do typing sessions. Please. Even if you think you know your type, get some clarity on that because it might be inaccurate. And if you have the inaccurate information, this is kind of pointless. So we want to know what you think. We want to know who you're partnered with or who you think you're partnered with. You can screenshot this and share it and share this with somebody you love. I love you both. Thank you.

Thank you so much for having us.

Oh, my God. Oh, where can they find you? I want them to follow you because you guys are going to be ones to watch your, like, couple goals for sure. So where can they find you?

So my favorite social media platform is Instagram, and my Instagram is at Katia Fitzgerald Kacia. And my podcast is called Empower her. It's Monday, Thursday podcast. Come hang with me there.

And Cena, I'm getting bigger on the gram now, you know, so it's Cena S E E N a Getmera. You can find me on Keisha's profile too. Yeah, yeah.

And coming in cities near you, he can help you find houses and.

Creatively help you invest and make your dreams come true. They both are dream makers, for sure. I'm so honored to have you guys both.

Oh, we love you.

Thank you.

Love you guys.

Thanks Tracy.

I'm so happy you enjoyed the Leadership Formula Podcast. Please help us spread the word about this show by sharing it with a friend and leaving a written Apple Podcast review. If you have any follow up questions to this episode, you can DM me directly on Instagram at tracee underscore Malley. You can also find additional resources on my website@traceeomalley.com I'm excited to lead you into the next level of your life.