EP201: Live Enneagram Typing Session: High-Achieving Women Are the Most Mistyped on the Enneagram with Joy Harrington (Enneagram 7)

Welcome to the Leadership Formula podcast, where you will learn the secret sauce behind achieving massive success. I'm your host, Tracy o', Malley, multimillion dollar entrepreneur, your Enneagram expert, master performance coach, and mom to millennials. Do you want deep, meaningful relationships to wake up every day with purpose and make money doing something you love? Well, you've landed in the right place. Every week, I will teach you how to get exactly what you want in life by strengthening your emotional intelligence. Using a combination of the Enneagram framework, live life coaching sessions, and real talk from yours truly, it's time to transform yourself into the ultimate leader of your life. Let's do this thing.

All right, you guys, it is time for one of your favorite kind of episodes. Thank you so much for all the feedback on the live Enneagram typing sessions. Because so many of you are like, oh my gosh, that is so helpful. And it is really helping you kind of unpack that you may be mistyped because all those online assessments, actually 65 to 70% of the time, they are inaccurate. No matter if you get the paid ones, the easy ones, it doesn't really, really matter. And I always kind of explain it like this. It's kind of like going to Disneyland. You can either take the four day hopper pass and take your time with it and hope you don't miss anything, or you get the fast pass. And no, you're not going to miss a damn thing and you're going to get it right the first time and you don't even have to go back there if you don't want to. And doing this with me is like getting the VIP fast pass to your trip to Disneyland in the Enneagram land. And I love doing these because it's like putting puzzles together. And today's beautiful guest is somebody that I have had the honor and privilege to get to know. I consider her a friend. We are in a mastermind together. And it was interesting because when I first met her, she came right up to me and she's like, I'm a three. I'm like, yeah, no kidding.

I was like, no kidding. And I'd been watching her on Instagram and at the time, like, she was doing things on reels that were very flashy. And I mean, her fashion changed every five seconds and it was beautiful. Is, I mean, her fashion sense and her style is just electric and, you know, very high qualities of a three with a strong four wing. Quite honestly, I was thinking. But the more I got to know her, the more I was like, I don't think she's a three. I really don't think she's a three. And this is the thing you need to understand is all these online assessments really only take behaviors into consideration and not the motives behind them. And, you know, when I kind of journey back into my relationship with Joy Harrington, I can see why she presented very three like. And women are more mistyped than men, just so you know, because I think we can compartmentalize parts of our lives a lot easier and more effectively than men, for sure. I would say women are most. The threes and eights are the most mistyped. Women also is my experience. Usually in this entrepreneurial space, you'll see that type A get shit done kind of woman, and we present that to the world. But underneath that is a motive and a fear that is kind of just laying there waiting to come out and play. And as I got to know Joy, I realized that she probably isn't a three. She had me come speak to her mastermind. Gosh, it was almost a year ago now. It's crazy to think that. And I did a whole workshop style with her beautiful group of women. And as I was talking about the different types and what's at the core of each one, she looked at me and I knew she knew what I was thinking. She is not a three. And so we're going to kind of unpack what that process looks like for her, for you. For those of you that think you might be mistyped or it's not landing or you're not using this tool the way that you want to, please reach out to me. I love doing these typing sessions. You don't have to be on air by any means. We can do this private, and it'll be the most empowering 90 minutes of your life. You'll never feel so seen, heard, and understood. And although that might scare you like it would me, typically, I want you to know when you actually feel like somebody gets you, it gives you full permission to step out into the world and do what you are here to do and what you're designed to do and what you deserve to have. So, Joy, I'm so excited to have you here. This is going to be so fun.

Oh, I'm so happy to be here. You are the epitome of someone that makes you feel seen, heard and loved and understood. So thank you for being that.

Oh, thank you. Sometimes that's great, and sometimes it's not. I can tell. And I don't know if you ever felt this with me, but, like, when somebody sees you so fully, especially when maybe you're hiding parts of yourself, which I know I can do very easily. That if somebody sees me in the past, I know I would have judged them or ran the other way or just, like, you know, made up a story in my head about who they were. Did you. Have you ever felt that with other people or me in general?

I for sure have. I don't think I ever felt that with you, but I for sure have before. And I think I did the judging or running away, like, we project as, like, a way of protecting.

Yeah, we definitely, definitely do. So had you. You obviously had known about the Enneagram before I showed up in your life.

Yeah, yeah, I had heard about it. I had tested myself a couple of times. I was kind of like, it's cool, but also, I'm a coach, and so I don't believe in being like, well, that's just the way I am. And that's how I saw everybody using it was to, like, explain away who they were. And I was kind of like, yeah, but that's letting you hide from, like, deeper work there. So you were the first person that I really heard talk about that and actually, like, growth numbers and how you should be leaning into things. And I was like, thank you for taking us to that point.

Yeah. And that was the thing. Like, I had been using this for five years in my life and in my business and in my home with my kids, and nobody. I never talked about it. Like, I was using it as a growth tool for me, as a mom, as a business leader, as a friend, and I started seeing it become trendy, like you just said, and talking about the cool, you know, like you said, putting yourself in a box or using it as a wall to say, this is just who I am. Deal with it. Which is how I absolutely would have used it 15 years ago. I've been like, go fuck yourself. I'm an eight. So, like, that's how I would have used it back then. But now I can honestly say this is, like, a beautiful growth tool. And when I started seeing it become trendy, I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait, you guys. You're not using this, right? You're not using this for all the beauty that it can be. And it pissed me off. Big shocker. And I was like, fuck this. Like, you guys need to know how beautiful this can be to help you step into your life and your relationships and not only for yourself, but everybody you touch. So thank you for. For saying that. It is why I'm so Passionate about it because, you know, when there's trendy things out there, it can. It's almost like a game of telephone. It's. It begins as this fun thing, and then people start drinking the Kool Aid and using it wrong. And. And I guess it's just a discovery journey. So you originally typed as a 3. What parts of the 3 made sense to you?

Achieving, like, wanting to do things, having ambitions, from what I remember, because it's been a while, because I definitely was ambitious. Like, I definitely liked to get stuff done. I also really think that it was based on how I grew up and the mom that I had and all the siblings that I was a part of. And I very much so molded myself to be what was expected and what was accepted and who I was told I was supposed to be, because my parents were firm believers in telling their kids who they were supposed to be. I remember my dad saying, kids come into this world not knowing who they are. That's our job. We're supposed to tell them who they are. We're supposed to shape them. They're like wet cement. And it's our job to shape them into who they're supposed to be. And so me, you can imagine, got shaped into a three, for sure, and a two, because my mom is very much a doer, like, very much stuck in, like, do over everything else, serve over everything else, die to yourself over everything else type thing. And so I very much fit to be accepted, I think.

Yeah. You know, what I talk about, the Enneagram is like, it's part nature, part nurture, and part learn childhood coping mechanisms, for sure. And you've carried babies in your body. I've carried babies in my body. I know without question, in utero. My kids and their disposition and temperament is exactly who they are at 24 and 25 today. And, you know, then we're dropped into environments, families, circumstances that can kind of, you know, change how that gets expressed, that temperament and disposition. And then depending on what we grew up with, if there was trauma or just. It is traumatic to hear that it is our job to mold you. That's traumatic. It really, really is. Quite honestly, it's crazy. And so, yeah, we do kind of alter the expression of who we are. And you mentioned, I know that your husband and you both have tons of siblings. Let the world know. How many siblings do you have? It's crazy.

I have eight siblings. I'm one of nine kids.

And where do you fall?

I say that I share the middle. I'm six out of nine. But the next to follow me was four years after me, and then there were two more after her that helped with raising them. I also followed two boys, so I really got lost kind of in the middle. I think my husband is one of 11 kids, and he is almost the baby. He's the last boy. And then four years later, a girl came.

Wow, that's crazy. When you were younger, you know, hearing what you heard, do you remember how old you were when you heard your dad say that? You're kind of like cement.

Oh, my gosh. Really hard to remember, because I feel like I heard it all the time.

Yeah.

Probably around 10 was, like, what really stands out to me. And I don't know why, but that number stands out to me for some reason.

And how old's your daughter now?

6.

I think when we have our own kids, all of a sudden we start, like, remembering. It's like, oh, my gosh. Because we know what they understand and take in and process and believe about certain things. And I know that that was a huge thing for me. When my daughter turned 4, I was like, oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. No wonder. No wonder. When do you think it happened for you? I mean, you've got quite the journey, and we'll take people through that, because how that shows up in your marriage and as a mom and as a business owner definitely can get confusing. Right. So not only just being in the middle of a large family, but also getting that messaging that, like, you're who we say you're gonna be. So how did you kind of show the world that as little joy fitting the mold?

Is that what you're asking me?

Yeah. Yeah. How did you fit the mold or believe that you earned the love of your parents or the outside world?

I was the child that did everything right. I would not make bad decisions. I was so afraid of getting in trouble. In fact, I was the child that got in trouble for accidents more than anything else. And I would get spanked. I would get disciplined for, like, things where I didn't have a bad intention, but it happened, and now I'm in trouble. And so I very much developed a strong sense of fear, I think, outside the box. Right. So I never did anything wrong. I mean, I saw my brothers do things, and my mom would be crying and crying. And so I remember when I was about 10 to 12, my mom was going through some really hard times with my. Some of my older siblings. And then she also had just had a miscarriage, and she was really not doing well, so she would Have a lot of down days. She would be crying in her room a lot. And my job at that point in time was to help run the house. So at 12, I'm raising siblings, I'm cooking, I'm cleaning, and my mom was homeschooling us, too. And so I remember getting my dad day after day after day and saying, mom's crying again. Because I wanted him to help fix it, because I felt very insecure with her being in tears all the time. And he finally told me one day, you can't get me. Every time mom cries, like, she's going to be okay, but you can't get me. And so I just walked on eggshells. Like, I was like, I'm going to do everything. Like, I'll. I will take it all on. Like, I will just do everything to make sure that mom isn't crying. And that. I mean, it's kind of funny because now I know that part of the reason why I married Peter was to basically be like, f you to the family. Like, I'm finally gonna do something, quote unquote, wrong, right? But I was girl all through high school. I got. I mean, I was on the honor roll. I had straight A's. I did everything right. I literally got a principal's pass, like, my senior year. Because if you have good enough grades, you can get a principal's pass, which means you're allowed to check yourself out without them calling your parents. And my parents were like, we're only gonna sign for this if you agree to call us every time. And so there was one time that I didn't call them, and I used it to go get ice cream with some friends during a class where it wasn't an actual class. It was just study period. And I'm a straight A student. And I used it that one time and didn't tell them. This is the biggest thing I did in high school. That was my. My wrong thing, you guys. I didn't touch drugs. I didn't drink anything. I didn't date nothing. And they ended up finding out about it. And that was like. My mom was like, how could you? Like, we trusted you. Clearly, we can't trust you. Because her whole thing was basically like, you have to prove you're innocent. Like, we don't believe that you're innocent unless you can prove it. So I was just a really good girl. Like, I didn't. I didn't do anything wrong. That was my way of trying to get their love.

Would it be fair to say that all this overachieving which like you said, looks very three or even one. Like, you know that all this achieving was a way to avoid the pain, the repercussions. Like it was more of an avoidance than a self worth thing.

Oh, 100%.

Yeah. So you go through high school and I'm sure, like, you do one thing, which I mean, go get the damn ice cream, for crying out loud. Like, seriously. And you broke all this trust. I'm sure you're like, what the actual right you get out of high school, when do you meet Peter?

I didn't meet Peter till I was 22.

Okay, so what do you do between high school and meeting him?

Well, I wanted to become a nurse. And I really wanted to go up to Fort Collins, Colorado and live in like a little apartment with some girlfriends because the school up there didn't have nursing. But there was a community college. And I was going to start at community college, spent a couple years there. I wanted to be in an apartment with some girls up there. And my parents were like, no, you need to be in a dorm. Like you need to be on a campus. And so they had me go to Greeley, which is a totally different town. Totally reeks smells. Everyone hates Greeley. It's like an armpit of Colorado. And did a year of school there. Hated it. Ended up quitting after that first year and realized, hey, I probably shouldn't go into all of this debt for a degree that I might not use the rest of my life because I did know that I was going to be a wife and mom at some point. And of course debt was terrible and there was better things you could do with your time. So I literally moved back home and worked different jobs. I worked at a bank and then I got bored and I worked at Starbucks and then I got bored and then I worked for a dentist and then an orthodontist. And I pretty much did like everything until I landed on nannying. And I realized that I really liked nannying because it would let me be more in control of like my actual day with the kids. Like, I could actually do what I thought was fun and I could go take them to do fun things and like, things like that. So that's what I did until I met Peter.

You know, I find it interesting too. This is probably where I have so much love and respect for you. Even without knowing all that. I can just, I think especially women that had to grow up earlier than they should have and had all this responsibility, but without any of the power and control and I don't mean that, you know, in a type A emasculating way. But we were left in charge and left responsible for siblings and households and mothers, quite honestly, that couldn't get out of bed yet. We had no control over calling any shots, but we were just expected to do it. And oh, I've got goosebumps all over just thinking about that because that was my life. Granted, I didn't have all the siblings you did, so I cannot even imagine that. But I also, you know, I got married at 21 and had my first baby by the time, I mean, I had two kids by the time I was 25. So I get it. And I knew I'd be a great mom. I did. For all the reasons that you just said. So you end up nannying and then where does Peter come in? Shortly thereafter he met me because I.

Was a nanny for his nieces and nephews.

Oh, nice.

Came out to go on a camping trip with all of us and basically stole the babysitter.

Scandalous. I know.

He started calling me a week later and it was not approved relationship on either side of the family. And so why my family didn't think that he had his relationship with God where it needed to be. And his family thought that seventh day I didn't fit their standards. So it's kind of hilarious. We talk about how both sides of the family didn't agree with like the other side religion.

That's so crazy, isn't it?

By the time we got married, basically had to do it without a blessing. And we did. And that was my first big, like, I'm not going to do this anymore. Like I'm actually going to do what I want to do.

I love that. What was the thing that you fell in love with Peter for other than he, you know, because I know that, you know, my marriage didn't work out. I know yours has been through some stuff and we'll kind of get into that. Looking back, you know, I've got almost 25 years removed from me getting married back then or 26, 27 now. And I know why I married who I married. And it was, he had a family that I desired. It was normal, at least in a way that I was craving. And it was a way out for sure. What was it about Peter when you first met him and fell in love that you're like, yeah, I'm gonna marry him, I don't need your frickin blessings.

I think there was definitely something to be said for he was a way out. As in he Wasn't part of the churches I grew up in.

Right.

And all the guys that I grew up in church with were boring. And he wasn't boring because he wasn't pandering to all the leaders. And we were told that we should, like, submit to all the leaders. Right. And so all these guys would come to church and they would, like, submit to authority. And I think I was repelled by that because I'm very feminine. And I really wanted a strong masculine that was like, no, I know who I am. I know where I'm going. I know what I'm doing. And that was him. He was very much like, this is who I am. This is where I'm going. He was tenacious in his pursuit of me.

I love that you just brought that up about being so feminine because you were craving that masculine, and that this is where that old conditioning and those old fears come into play. Because I am very feminine too, believe it or not. And in all my male relationships, although I crave that masculine energy, I was also, like, afraid of it as well. And I know that you, at some point were very in the masculine. Right. Where did that take a turn? You're, like, craving this masculine energy from your man. You're very feminine. When does your old coping and your old fears come into being like, I won't be controlled. I won't be put in a box. I want to be free, but I also want the whole package. When did you start to realize, like, oh, shit, I know that this is who I am, but my old stuff is coming up and kind of getting in the way?

Well, honestly, the awareness of it getting in the way was probably only in the last couple years.

Yeah. Yeah. It's powerful.

Yeah. Because before that, yeah, it came up and I was using it, but I didn't see it as getting in the way.

Why not?

Right.

At least. At least you didn't know what was going on. Right. Because it actually did get in the way of a lot.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. And to a certain degree, we were kind of guided in that direction, I will say, by a counselor who was helping us through our story. So we were kind of guided that direction. And I. So I think it was based on that guidance and also based on me basically being like, well, f you, like, you didn't do this, so I'm gonna do it type thing. I would say there were instances before that in our marriage where I very much would be like, okay, I can't wait on you to make this decision, so I will. But it became way worse Six years ago.

I think when, you know, we grew up with as much responsibility as we did, that those fears of if it's to be it's up to me kick in. And we will bulldoze things in our path in order to have that certainty or that safety, that autonomy, whatever, since it's so innate to us from our environment that like. Yeah. And you and I both know what that does to a man. It emasculates the shit out of them. And so even though you might not have been aware of it at the time, I mean, you share this very publicly. It's a big part of your story. And I just applaud the hell out of you and Peter for being so open about this part of your story that there was some infidelity that went on.

Yeah.

And how did you find out about that? Or how did that come to a head?

He had been looking at porn and that when we were dating, he had been unfaithful. So he kind of told me a lot of it, but not everything. And at that point in time, I was extremely naive. I hadn't dated anybody before him.

Right, right.

And I didn't even really know what porn was, except that it was bad. And I did have the foresight to say, you had a really messed up childhood. You have a lot of shit, and I will only stay with you if you start getting some help. So I did have the foresight to say that, and he did start getting some help. And it helped, but it didn't actually, like, solve the problem. Right. Yes. And so then fast forward. We have two kids and so six years ago, I have a almost three year old and a five month old. I'm like in the throes of postpartum depression. And the Ashley Madison scandal happened.

Oh, shit. Yeah.

He was away on a business trip. And I just had this like intuitive, like I should check. Like I should just check. And I didn't. It was like that sinking pit in your stomach where you're like, I don't want to.

But yeah, I've had one of those. I've had one of those too.

Yeah. Yeah. So I checked and his email came up and I was like, what? Like what? And so I tried to ask him about it. Of course he blew it off.

Sure.

I was like, well, when you get home from your trip, we're talking about this. So when he got home, I actually for the first time was like, show me your computer. Like, show me your laptop. I had been very hands off before that. I didn't know the bank accounts. I didn't know a lot of things. So I went through his email, and I found emails, explicit emails between him and another woman. And I just shut it. At that point in time, I was like, I don't need to say anything else. Else. We're done. Like, I don't want to know everything else. We're done. Like, leave. And at that point in time, we separated, and he was a little bit in denial that first weekend that I was, like, done, done. But I was like, no, you don't get it. I am done. Like, there is nothing left inside me. I'm exhausted from raising these kids. I have nothing left for you. So anyways, I took a pause because I realized I had children. And if I didn't have those kids, I would have filed. But I. I literally looked at them, and I was like, I owe it to them as their mom to do everything in my power, because someday they're gonna ask me, and if I can't look them in the eyes and say, I literally did everything that I could, I can't live with that because they will hate me for a period of time growing up without him.

And would you admit, like, now? Because, you know, I have a similar story, and very similar. I had the same. I mean, I threw shit. Like, I. I mean, it was crazy. But I also had the same moment because I grew up with so much of that, and I needed to try everything, too. And it was about halfway through therapy that I realized, well, even though he did, he put the final nail in the coffin, I dug the grave. And that was when I really took ownership, that any kind of breakdown in a relationship, it always takes two people and two participants. You know, it's really easy to point at the person that had the affairs or did the things or put the nails in the coffin, but quite often, nobody looks at the one who dug the grave. When did you start to take ownership of your part in things?

Not for a while.

Yeah, me either. Me either.

That's also because I knew that this was an issue he had before he met me. Right. And I also knew. Yeah. And I also knew that I had made a huge effort in our marriage, our entire marriage, especially sexually. Right. I made a huge, like, effort. And so I was like, this is you. This is you. Like, this is not an us thing. This is you. I've been nothing but available. I've been initiating. I've been excited, like.

Right, sure.

Is there other things that come up? Like, you know, wanting to be like, you can't make the decision I'll make the decision. Sure. Yes.

Right.

But I was like, this is a U issue. I'm not even willing to look at my stuff until you actually look at your addiction. Because you have an addiction, and an addiction has nothing to do with the other person. The marriage is completely separate from the addiction. Right. So, yeah, I gave him 30 days to convince me to not file, and I gave him a list of what I needed to see.

I'm proud of you for that.

I. I looked at this stuff and I'm like, oh, like, do these things. And I honestly think it was just. God, yeah. My intuition. But also, like, I just knew, like, I was like, I have to have these things. Like, this will happen, or we're not going together. Yeah. That began our journey.

Wow. So coming back to the Enneagram with this, I think that is really the moment that you started to take the power of who you were and not just being the girl who does everything right. Or, like, you were willing to, like, say, okay, this marriage is over, or, this marriage is going to work. But there was not a lot of, like, you know, I'm just going to keep the peace here, or you're going to, like, step into who Joy was in that moment. And I think it's so amazing. And honestly, I think that boundaries are a loving act. And quite often so, you know, we're afraid to lay down boundaries because we don't want to hurt anybody else. We don't want to hurt our children. But what we actually do when we do that is enable people when we don't. And I think you probably had a big part in really Peter being able to step into who he is, too. And it's so awesome. It's so awesome. So back to the Enneagram. A lot of the things that you said, even though that threeness that showed, I think that absolutely was a lot of your coping early on and learned stuff early on. But there is a common theme of not wanting to be put into a box, doing everything right, which has a lot to do with your stress number, which you lived in stress for most of your first 20 years of your life, I would say. And knowing what I know about the framework of the Enneagram, it makes total sense why you a seven on the Enneagram and not actually a three. Yeah. Yay. She is the enthusiastic visionary, not the competitive achiever. Although you definitely can step into that. But a lot of that has to do with your wings and your stress number and your growth number at this point, you stepping into who you Are right now I see the full beauty of the healthiest form of the seven that I. You're one of the healthier sevens that I've. I've met. And they're, they're my favorites. And you, you guys are actually who I learned the most from and why I studied this damn thing to begin with, because I'm raising one. There's also a part of this that is a reason why people are mistyped. And that has to do with our instinctual responses to life. And that is not necessarily an innate thing. It is more an experiential thing. And we have the self preservation, the one on one, and the social. And although, you know, we use all of them, usually one is more dominant, two definitely come into play, and then there's one that's a blind spot. And for you, growing up the way you did, it was very much self preservation as well as that one on one. So the self preservation, that instinct focuses on physical safety, well being, material security and comfort, which I can see that in you for sure. But I think you really lean into more of the one on one aspect of who you are now, which focuses on the intensity of experiences and one on one relationships. And this has you actively seeking out opportunities that promise strong, energetic connections with others, which is why what you're doing in the world today is absolutely perfect for you. So the enthusiastic visionary, as you know, is the seven on the enneagram. And you know, when I was listening to how you were operating as a child, the seven has the motivational need to experience life to the fullest and to avoid pain. So all this achieving that you were doing was to avoid the consequences and pain. I mean, you do one fucking thing wrong. It wasn't wrong. I mean, go have the damn ice cream. And it was like you were written a scarlet letter, like it was put on your back like you're the worst child in the world. Crazy, right? Crazy. But your gifts, and so I tell people this all the time, you already know what your gifts are and your superpowers are. But as I read this list, I think you can also see where maybe in the first 20 years, 25 years of your life, you're what, 33 now? 32.

36.

Oh my gosh, you're so great. You're hot. Oh my God. Okay, so the first 30 years of your life, these very gifts and superpowers were actually the kryptonite and wrecking ball in a lot of your life. The optimism. It's where you put on the rose colored glasses and the blinders on, right? And like, I don't want to pay attention to what's happening over here. Right? But now your optimism is anything's fucking possible. Like, there is no box that any of us are put in. And I'm here to show you how. So that's how you live today. But that optimism is kind of what got you into that little pickle for a while. You're flexible. Oh, my gosh. Like sevens, the ability to pivot, that you guys are the kings and queens of that. You like to keep options open, which is also why you're like, fuck this shit, I'm out. Right? Like, I'm not afraid, you know, so being flexible can also be something that holds you back. Future oriented, you know, the need for certainty. That's what sevens really crave, is adventure, experience. They want to know that, you know, whatever's in front of them, anything is possible. There are no, like, restrictions. Give me all the things. And you can see where this sometimes can have you not being in the present and being aware of what's really happening.

Totally.

Which part of that was survival in the home growing up? Part of it was conditioning in your marriage. But this future oriented also was that defining moment for you when you were looking at your children saying, okay, I also see that if I just make a very harsh, quick decision right here, the impact and the ripple effect of this could really not be good. And so use that future oriented gift in such an elegant, beautiful way today. And you do it so. God, you do it so beautifully. I love watching you. You guys are super practical. You can combine ideas with practical and productive focus, which this is your get shit done part. Like, you make shit happen. You guys, I'm in awe of this girl, watching her and although that can look very three like, it's not. It is so outside the box in ways and like planting the flag and saying, zero fucks here. I'm going to speak it the way it is, but you do it in a way that actually gets shit done. And it's not just a big fancy idea. It's got execution behind it. And that's when it's really beautiful. The adventurous part, it makes you a beautiful mom. It makes you a very spontaneous, flirty wife. It also makes you fun to learn from. It also makes those of us that lived with the worry of fear and betrayal. That's kind of my biggest fear. Where yours is like pain, mine's fear or betrayal and vulnerability. Your adventurous spirit, which is what my daughter is as well, it really gives those of Us that are afraid of that hope. And you do that so well, even through the things that you've been through publicly and privately that maybe a lot of us don't even know about. How you show up in the world is very strong, powerful, but full of life and very much in the moment. And I just admire the hell out of you for that. But that adventurous spirit can also get you into trouble. Right? And it has. It has. So what I see a lot of times, you know, the seven under stress, you know where this goes right to the one when they're under stress, which as a child, that black and white thinking, the one is the perfectionist, the reformer, the warden, the sheriff is what I call the Ones. And I only see that in you when you're under stress. And when I first met you, I could see a little bit of this, this very black and white thinking it was good or bad, right or wrong. And I don't see you living in that much anymore. And it's beautiful. It really, really is. But if you look at your childhood, you were pretty much in that stress one your entire childhood.

Yep, yep.

Where this rigid like. Like you have to have the last word. It's my way or the highway, the, the move out of the way, Peter, I'm going to take over part that was all your Enneagram one. And what I've watched you do in the last few years that I've gotten to know you is lean into your growth number, which is the 5, which is the Enneagram 5, which is the investigator, the quiet specialist. And what I usually tell Sevens is, you know, you've got these big, huge ideas. You are the visionaries, you are the innovators, you are the anything's fucking possible people. And I love that about you. But so often you can be so quick to take action and be so future oriented that you may not think the process through. And that's why a lot of Sevens get the bad rap of being unfocused all over the place. Shiny object syndrome, squirrel, you know, all those bad raps that, you know, the stereotype gets. But when I see and I've watched you do this, it's so awesome when a 7 kind of creates the container for all these amazing seeds. They're thrown all over the place, but you create this quiet container of solitude. It's when they can actually take root and you'll get quiet for a little while or you'll take time for yourself. And when I see a 7 do that, it's actually a beautiful thing. Now if an 8 does it, warning lights go on. Because when I go into solitude, I'm going into a cave that I'm building a case where I might kill you, right? But a seven going into that beautiful solitude den is actually where some of the beautiful, creative, innovative programs, ideas, the things that you're bringing to this world in your business and as a family, quite honestly, it's amazing. But the only way that we can really go into our growth number, if you're left to your seven ways, you're not going to do that on your own ever. Because the seven be like, fuck this, let's go have some fun, right? Let's just go have fun. We'll deal with it later. But because you have two very, very strong wings, and one of your wings was one of your highest scores, which is, this is probably why I also love you. One of your wings is an eight and one of your wings is the six. So when the seven is like, hey, stupid idea time, anything's possible. Let's just make all this happen at once. Having that six wing plus your growth five, that six wing is that master troubleshooter, strategist. You're a very good strategist. When sevens can lean into their six wing in a healthy way, it is epic because you can go through, okay, I want all the fun stuff and all the cool stuff, but I'm willing to slow down and think about what's the worst that could happen or if I do this, what's the consequence? Where sometimes sevens, they're kind of like eights, like, deal with the consequences later. But that six in you allows you to then move into your five. Of like, okay, what is the wisdom and what are the bullet points that I need to actually execute this? That's all because of your 6 swing. Now, you've probably used the 6 wing in an unhealthy way before where you overthink things and you can almost be like, fearful, fearful, fearful of anything. Back when you gave a shit what people thought that six can also get you into not taking action. So you're using the 6 in a beautiful, productive way today. But the 6 isn't always the executor. The 7 can be, but they can also be little. Like, I just want fun. I want fun. But the good news, with you having an eight wing, they're like, what's the end goal? What's the big action? Where's the zero fucks coming? Who's going to get in our way? Who wants to fight? That's where your eight wing is like, bring it on, motherfuckers. I will handle anything that comes my way. And I do see you use that a lot in such a great way. It's probably why I love you, because it's like all the haters, because you talk very publicly about your story, and everybody's got a damn opinion, and they'll sling it right at this beautiful face of yours and not even think twice about it. But that eight wing is like, yeah, go fuck yourself. Bring it on.

Pretty much. It's called an opinion, guys. I'm sharing an opinion.

Oh, my gosh. I remember when we were sitting at your mastermind, and the look on your face when you realized you weren't a three. What was it about the seven that you heard that you're like, yeah, that's. That's who I am. Oh.

When you said, doesn't want to be boxed in and wants to be able to create all different kinds of things, I was like, thank God I'm not crazy.

No.

Yeah. And also, there was a part of me that's like, well, then what's wrong with me? Because I'm not actually achieving everything that I start.

Like, I'll start a lot of things.

But I don't finish everything because part of it is learning along the way what I actually want to then put my energy into and not Right. But I'm a big fan of, like. I mean, I even tell my kids, we always try any food, or we say we don't like it. Like, and everywhere we go, Peter's always like, I have no idea what your usual is, because it's always something new.

Yeah.

Because I have to try new things. I did try new things. And he's like, why do you always need new? And I'm like, I don't know. I just do. So. I don't know. I think I felt relief for being someone that wanted to trial things and even if I wasn't going to finish them.

Yeah, I. You know, having a seven daughter, that was a huge aha for me because I realized that I'm wired very, very differently than her. And when she would be kind of talking about all the different ideas and things she wanted to try, the eight in me was like, well, how's this possible? How's that possible? How's this possible? How's this possible? And sometimes I'd even. And verbalize that, and I realize, like, oh, my God, I'm dimming her light and not even trying. Like, it isn't coming from a. I don't believe in her place. It's just like, how the fuck is all this possible? And when I realized that a 7 just needs to kind of just get it all out, it doesn't mean they actually believe it's all going to happen, but they want to know that at least it's possible that if they wanted to, they could do all of it. Is that true for you?

You're giving me an aha right now. Because I grew up with a mom that always wanted to say the questions or always wanted to say, well, that can't. Or this, this, whatever. And everywhere we went and everything that we experienced would point out maybe the flaws or how it could have been better. And I remember just being so irritated, like, why can't you just, like, enjoy it? Like, why can't. And so I actually have a very big mother wound. We've talked about this.

Yeah, yeah.

And I stopped talking to her. I remember being like eight and being like, I won't. Like, you're no longer going to be part of anything inside me. Like at 8, right? Yeah.

Powerful down.

And I was like, there goes the key. Like, you are for sure not getting in. And then at 16, something else happened and I was like, and there's the vault. Like, you will. Like, I'll never.

Yeah.

And I just remember I stopped telling her my ideas. I stopped telling her my fun things.

I have a very similar experience. Like, I've been the grown up in my life, the mother role of my own life since I was about 5, so I get that very fully. And then I think God delivers us daughters to really put shit in perspective. Because although I knew I didn't want to be like that, it's all I kind of knew. And being in survival as a little girl like you were, I didn't necessarily know how to nurture that free spirit that was very different than me. And I realized that me going into strategy mode actually wasn't helping her. And now, you know, she's 25 now. She'll be 25 in about a month. But realizing that she just needs to be able to speak it all out. And I'll sit there and listen. I'm like, I'm not going to interrupt you. Just fire away. And if you want some divine wisdom here at the end of this, I'm here for it. And I can absolutely. Because I can see everything very clear in a different way than you guys can. And so because she trusts that I'm going to hear her out and I'm not going to judge it or micromanage it or put her in a box. She comes to me with everything, and I am her wise counsel. Not just because I'm mom, but because she actually knows I see her fully for who she is. And I'm not trying to make her a mini me, which is amazing. I love that you had that awareness. What's the relationship with your daughter like?

You know, I can already see her wanting to please. And I'm always like, you don't need to. Like, you don't. You don't need to. Right. Like, be you. Be you. We are extremely close. I was terrified to have her. So was I. I said I wouldn't have girls. I even told my husband that when.

We got married, I wanted four boys. I wanted four boys.

And now I know why.

Yep.

Because it scared the shit out of me.

Same.

And I was like, oh, I'm gonna mess this up.

Yep. Same. You broke the cycle, hon. You broke it all. So did I. It's the bravest thing we could ever do.

That little girl is the best thing that ever happened to me.

Same.

And actually, she is why I began pursuing my healing at such a deep level. Because I was like, I will not.

Me too.

I will not pass this down.

Me too.

I will not have this repeated.

If we don't repair it, we repeat it.

Right. The best thing that ever happened to me was that girl. Because that girl pursues me.

Yeah.

More than anyone else. From day one, she has been like, you're my person. Not daddy. You. I am here for you. And to this day, I mean, she was in my bed last night because she is like, I want you. I don't want Dad.

I want you.

I don't want that. She even said when she was three that she was gonna marry me when she grew up. Not dad.

Yeah.

And I've never been so loved.

Same.

By a daughter. Well, obviously, I didn't have a daughter, but, like, felt that relationship with the mother. Daughter bond. Yeah.

It's fascinating to me that with my daughter at 25 years old, that. And she doesn't just say it because it's the cute Pinterest Y thing to say, but she means it when she says, you actually are my very best friend in the world and I trust you with my life. And not because I'm molding her into who I think she should be, but because I let her be her. And I still, like, I'm blown away that I was gifted a daughter like you were. That she saved my life. Honestly, if I didn't have them, I'd be dead. No question. I know. That's why I got married and had kids so young, but. But I love that. How old is she now?

She is six.

Oh, God. I'm so grateful that she has you as a mom, honestly. What a gift. What a gift you are. And so you're out in the world helping lots of other women today, not just through your story, but through your wisdom. Because in business, a few years ago, when I kind of met you, you were kind of on the trajectory of this change that you're in now. When I first met you, you were more about branding and the cutesy shit that we all see. Right. And very quickly, you just, like, this. The fluff. Like, this is what you really need to know. And when did that change happen, like, and why?

I think that's been over the last six months, especially. Yeah. Because I think I'm just over it. I'm someone that's extremely genuine and authentic. I don't know if that's part of being a seven, but I literally can't do something if I know I don't align with it. Like, I cannot. And people say with me especially, what you see is what you get. I don't lie.

I can't.

I can't. And so I reached this point of basically, I think, seeing the facade for what it was in the coaching world. There's a lot of facade.

There's a lot of flashiness, 90% of it, y'.

All. And I realized I was like, oh, my God, I see it now. And I was like, what the.

Right?

Pretty much like this oh, my God moment. Like, I've been killing myself for something that's one, probably not what I really want. Number one. And two, not real. And so I was like, I'm really ready to help women do the real thing. Like, I've always been a voice of truth. I will be a voice of truth in this, because people deserve to know. People deserve to know the truth, and they deserve to build what they actually want.

Well, and it's one thing to speak truth, but it's another thing to be able to show people how to execute the truth. And. And you definitely stepping into the healthiest seven that you are, using your wings and your growth number and even being aware of your stress number. And where you can go with that is why you are able to not just create and cast a vision for people, but also take their hand and say, let's fucking go, and this is how you're going to do it. And you are the true embodiment of the beautiful, enthusiastic visionary that can execute and make shit happen alongside other women. So how can people learn more from you? She's got the best reels. Sevens. You guys just. Damn it, I wish I was a seven sometimes. Because you're creative, like, awesome. She makes the best reels. There's only two people. I really love watching their reels, and you're one of them, so. Yeah, it's so true. I watch every single one that you do. They're all really great. But how can people learn more from you, Work with you? They're like, this girl's the real deal. She's got what I want. Show me the way.

Well, I love hanging out on Instagram.

Yes, you do.

JoyHarrington. IG. I also have a podcast called Level Up Babe where I share a lot of stuff on there, too. So if you want to check it out, I'm on both of those.

Are you still doing the Mastermind or just private coaching now?

I'm just doing private coaching right now and then selling my courses because I'm in the middle of actually founding a new company with two business partners where we are going to take people that want to build a brand, and we're going to help them go from, like, nothing to having the foundational pieces within a shorter amount of time. And then we're going to help them effectively scale it, help them actually hire a team and to train their team to do what we're doing so that we can step out, and then we're going to invest in their business long term.

Ooh, I like that. Yeah, I love that. Typical seven visionary kind of money moves right there. I love that you definitely want to learn from this beautiful, authentic, real deal. You guys know I don't even talk about them like this if I don't believe in them. And I would absolutely send anybody her way. And I know that you not only will be spoken truthfully to, but loved on and even a little tough loved on. So, Joy, I love you so much. Thank you for just opening up your heart and your wisdom to the world here. I look forward to many, many years of friendship and fun alongside of you. You guys, if you want to experience what this felt like for yourself, you can hit me up on Instagram tracyomalley, or go to my website, tracyomalley.com, the work with me section. I do live Enneagram typing sessions. We do the Enneagram experience. We do the whole damn thing. So I would be honored to walk the journey with you.

I recommend it. Go do it.

Oh, you guys are great. Step into the ultimate leader that you are. That is where all the juicy parts of life live.

I'm so happy you enjoyed the Leadership Formula podcast. Please help us spread the word about this show by sharing it with a friend and leaving a written Apple podcast review. If you have any follow up questions to this episode, you can DM me directly on Instagram at tracyomalley. You can also find additional resources on my website@traceeomalley.com I'm excited to lead you into the next level of your your life.