EP207: Enneagram Couple: How Two of the Same Type Can Have Very Different Strengths and Make It Work Beautifully in Marriage & Business

Welcome to the Leadership Formula podcast, where you will learn the secret sauce behind achieving massive success. I'm your host, Tracy o', Malley, multimillion dollar entrepreneur, your Enneagram expert, master performance coach, and mom to millennials. Do you want deep, meaningful relationships to wake up every day with purpose and make money doing something you love? Well, you've landed in the right place. Every week, I will teach you how to get exactly what you want in life by strengthening your emotional intelligence. Using a combination of the Enneagram framework, live life coaching sessions, and real talk from yours truly, it's time to transform yourself into the ultimate leader of your life. Let's do this thing.

All right, you guys, buckle up. This is going to be a very, very fun informational podcast episode today. Because one of the number one things I get asked about are couples and Enneagram types, which are most compatible and which work best together. And today, I'm bringing you probably top three favorite powerhouse couples of all time. Seriously, I sit in awe of these two, and I just can't even stop watching them. And not because they're super flashy. Well, one of them is a little more flashy, but they're both like. You just can't take your eyes off of them because of the mission, the vision, the level of excellence, the drive, the. Just all of it. And we've got a pairing that I get asked a lot about is, like, can you be married to the same type as you? Yes, you can, because this couple are both Enneagram threes. So I know you all want to listen real close because we all want to be like the threes anyway. Like, seriously, you are the most coveted Enneagram type, because you guys see goals, you hit goals. Like, and there's really, like, once you guys say it's go time, like, there's no stopping you, and you actually crush everything that you decide you're going to do, and. And it makes the rest of us kind of like, ugh, I wish it was that easy. I want to be, like, a three. But we also know there's a dark side to that, right? And I'm sure you guys have experienced that in your life. What are you guys in your early 30s? Yeah, early 30s. Yeah. So you've had enough wisdom under your belt to know, like, there's a healthy place that that can come from and then a dark side to it as well, and consequences to having that drive that aren't always in our favor. So I met this couple in my elite mastermind. So to be in the elite mastermind you gotta be really crushing it. Like over 500k a year. These two blow this out of the water. She's got background in all sorts of things. Network marketing as well. She's crushed it in more than one company, right?

Just one.

Just the one. Yep. What'd you do before that?

I was an insurance agent.

Ah, I didn't know that. This makes a lot. Is that where you two met?

No, we started together. We started together right after we got married.

Okay, let's go back to where you two met.

Oh, gosh. Is this how we're gonna start? Is this our creepy meeting story now? It's not creepy at all. Why don't you tell the story of how we met?

Okay, first of all, first of all, you guys, I have Courtney and Michael Weaver here. They are Midwest people love them. So all my Chi Town people, you're gonna love these two. They own Weaver Sales Academy. They deal with insurance agents and all sorts of things. Not just your typical boring insurance kind of talk, but like real life changing stuff. So, all right, back to the story. Where'd you two meet? I'm dying to hear the story because I don't even know it.

Okay, so I was in my early 20s and I was. It was Valentine's Day. I was single and I stayed up all night because I was going to literally repurpose my life. I was going to make more money. I was going to go back and get my master's degree. I was going to change where I was living. I was going to get really super healthy. And with that comes going to the gym. So I stay up all night, don't go to bed. At 5 o' clock in the morning, gym opens up. This is February 15th. I stroll in there, there's two other people in the gym. This is a small, tiny gym. It's this guy and the other guy that he's working out with. So I'll let you tell the story. This is not creepy. For anyone who knows my husband.

Not creepy.

Yeah, he's the least creepy person that you'll ever meet. But I appreciate his boldness in this story.

And you guys, I know you can't see her right now, but Ms. Courtney here is a smoke show. Let's just call it what it is. Very intimidating to walk up to.

I may. I may have kicked out of my coverage. I don't know.

But I don't think so. You're pretty nice to know.

He's good.

So. Yeah, so what she didn't tell you is a few months prior. So I Had just moved home from college, moved home with mom and dad to save some money. So I was also in my early 20s and I'd seen her in the gym a couple times, but it was always in transition. So she'd be coming out as I was going in or I was in my car. And long story short, I would ask my buddy one day and I was like, you know who that girl is? And he's like, no idea. She's new to town. I'm like, okay, well, this is good. And then she stumbled in the morning after Valentine's Day. And so in my mind I'm like, how do I introduce myself in the most non creepy way possible. In a gym. Okay. Like small town gym. So she goes into this room that's about five by five. It's what we call our ab room. And there's this little mat. And so I see her go in there. I'm like, this is my chance. There's no way out except through the door. So this is good.

Let me pin her in a room.

And I was like, hey, do you care if I borrow this mat or use this mat with you? And she's like, no, go ahead. And so I'm like, what's your name? Whatever. We start small talk and I drop the hint that, hey, I'm in here every morning at 5 o' clock in the morning, she shows up the next day. And I'm like, I got a chance. Basically over from then.

Like, I knew the minute I met him, it was a feeling. I went home, I told my girlfriends at work, I met the guy I'm going to marry. They thought I was absolutely nuts. They're like, what does he look like? Show me pictures. Of course, this is 2011, so this is a whole different ball game here. And I said, I can't even remember what he looks like. It's just a feeling, like I know that this is my person. And that was it. February 15th. We've been together ever since.

Tell me what it was that you felt or the energy that you felt that you were like, this is my person. Because as an enneagram3, you're kind of always looking for, like the very best in everything, especially the social three, that you are like, what was it about that moment? And I love that you felt that because it's so obvious. Like, even watching you two talk, like the way that you look at each other, it's what we all crave. It's like love goals for sure. And it's so genuine. It's not bullshit. Flashy three stuff. It's like real energy. So what was it do you think? Especially in your early 20s? We don't know jack shit.

No, we don't know anything.

The things that I was asking for, and I think this was really my first dealing with energy and manifestation and really calling out what you want in your life. The things that I were asking for in no regard was there a man in there. There was never a partner, never. You know, I want to find a great relationship. It was all self motivated, like how do I improve myself? And when I met him it was like, this is going to sound so cliche, but this is the person that's going to help you walk all of this out. This is the person that is meant to be by your side for all of these big goals that you have. Your life is going to take a completely. And it did. It took a hard pivot when I met him and went down a much better path than I was even co creating in that moment. But I don't really have words to describe that feeling. It was just an inner knowing. You know when your intuition just pings you so hard and if you don't listen and it gets starts screaming, it's.

That feeling, you know what's really important that all of you listening here, hear me here right now. Like I had exactly the same kind of experience as almost 50 years old. Like it was two years ago about this time where it was self motivated. I was like, okay, I'm going to take charge of a certain area of my life. I'm going to add a little structure to it. Again, the same kind of thing. Like, like, of course I would enjoy companionship down the road, but like this was not motivated for that. Right? And sure enough, that very day Mr. Wonderful walked in.

I have chills.

Exactly this. Like I started 75 hard on that day. And that afternoon he walked into a networking event that I was in. It's crazy. So Michael, obviously she's beautiful. No doubt about it. We don't even have to pretend.

No question, right?

So when you met her in the five by five stalker room.

I like that.

Did you know right away too or were you like, well she's pretty cute. Like boys don't really think as deep as we do. But.

So I wouldn't say right away, but the interesting thing about me is anyone that knew me knew that that was very weird that I was just like, I have to go up and introduce myself. And it was, it was like I just wasn't that type of guy. Like it Was definitely out of character for me just to go up and introduce myself and start the conversation with a single very attractive female and. But then literally the next three days we're on the treadmill. We are for 45 minutes every day. Within three days I'm like, okay, yeah, this is good stuff. Like I. Yeah, like I thought that at that point, like, I'm probably going to marry this girl one day.

What was so out of character for you? Like, why would people be surprised by that? Because when we hear enneagram3, you guys are fearless in the pursuit of a goal and you're like, I'm going to meet that girl. Like, why is that out of character though for you?

So I'm a super confident individual, but back in my early 20s when it came to females, I just, I don't know if it was past relationships or what it was, but I'm not the guy that at a bar I'm going to go up and just be like, hey, what's up? Can I buy you a drink? What's your name? I'm more of the sit in the back, take it all in. Which is not your typical three. I know, but that's just my style. Like I'm more of a take it in just almost like an introvert type of personality. But I don't know what it was. Her energy, something she was putting off, just was like, come talk to me.

Well, this is so important because for those of you listening right now, you've heard me talk about the mistyping that happens. 65 to 70% of you are mistyped. And the number one reason next to trauma is exactly what I'm going to share with you guys. And the reason that that was more uncomfortable for Mike and his enneagram3ness is because he's in that self preservation instinct which is the counter type, which is one of those threes that does not look like the others. And in each Enneagram type, there's one counter type because we have the self preservation, we have the one on one and the social. And that self preservation instinct that Michael lives in most of the time, he's more likely to focus on physical safety, mater security, well being and comfort. Right. That's why he is comfortable sitting kind of on the sidelines. And he was mistyped previously as an Enneagram one totally makes sense why a self preservation three would mistype as a one. Now our girl Courtney, on the other hand, is the social three. She fits every stereotype of a healthy three, I will say because she has done A lot of work. She's, she is flashy. She is like she walks in a room and you notice and she loves it. Like she loves it. In all the healthy reasons she makes positive impact and change in the world. Probably earlier in her life it was maybe not the healthiest spot. So her dominant survival strategy is like that we instinct. And she's focused likely on interactions and relationships with other people in the broad sense. The personal value or self esteem that you gain from group activities where Michael kind of gains his from like you know, security, legacy, things like that.

Absolutely.

So your early days when you know like okay, this is the real deal. How long does it take you guys to go from the treadmill, having 45 minute chats to like getting it on together? Like this is what's going to happen. We're together.

We moved in after six months. We dated for six months and moved in together. Had a joint checking account. Like we were like again, we are enneagram threes. We are not going to dilly dally. Here we go, here's the list and.

We'Re going to check it all off in five minutes.

Yeah, yeah. So that it moved really quickly after we initially met.

Yeah, I feel like, yeah, it was fast.

Yeah. But we didn't get married until so we met in 2011. I did the single ladies Beyonce dance for a few years and then we got married in 2014. So it took some time.

So the actual wedding took a little bit. But like you were living, you're playing house for quite some time.

Yeah, we were there for like two years before. So let's see, we would have moved in 11 and then I proposed in 13.

Yeah.

So May of 13. So yeah, about two and a half years.

Okay, so where do you guys end up being insurance agents together? So neither one of you, you started it together?

Yeah. So he was in insurance when I met him. That's been his entire identity. He actually got an internship when he was a junior in college, graduated, worked for another insurance agent. Oh.

Which is such a self preservation career. Like big shock there. Like that's amazing. I love it. How did you know that that was going to be your thing?

So I didn't necessarily know insurance. So if we go back to my teenage years. So I grew up in a really blue collar house. Just good salt of the earth people's parents, like the type of parents that they see broke down the side of the road, they're going to stop and make sure you're all right. But my dad, long story short, my dad was a Union worker. And in my teenage years, my dad found out that his pension was mismanaged. And so to this date, he still doesn't know if he's going to get a pension. His goal was retiring at 50. He's now 57 and still working. In my teenage years, I knew that, number one, I never wanted to be reliant on anyone from a financial perspective. And number two, I wanted those around me to also be financially free and secure in their financial future. So I initially went to school because when you think of that, it's like, I need to make a shit ton of money. I need to make a lot of money so that I'm never in this situation. And so I initially went to school for law. And then lo and behold, I happened to stumble across an insurance agent that I went up because I needed an internship to graduate college. And so I went up to the knocked on his door, interviewed. He said, hey, you're a great kid, but come back next year when you graduate. Well, I came back the next day and was like, I'm going to knock on your door every day, so you give me a job. Long story short, gave me a job. And that's how my insurance career began.

No wonder you are so destined to do that. Like when you have an experience like that and you see the pain, whether he expressed it fully or not, from your dad, like, that's a real big like, aha moment. Like I don't want to ever have to rely on that or something or, or have like the necessary things in place. And how'd you end up in it? Court.

Well, this is. Now that you're saying this, this is an interesting story because I was gonna go to law school as well. So when we met, we both had this for very different reasons. So I was not about, you know, trying. I thought it sounded cool.

You wanted to be Ally McBeal, didn't you?

Yeah, it sounds cool. We're gonna make some. And then I went to college and realized I'm not going to be here.

Forever and you look great in a pencil skirt, I'm sure. Yeah, I would.

Thank you.

I do. Yes, I know you do.

So that's interesting. When you were telling that story, I put all that together of how, wow, we both are enneagram threes and how different they show up, even if we were to go to school and get the same degree. So we got together, we had an opportunity to open up our own insurance agency, but we had to go scratch. And scratch means that you have no clients. There's no, usually you get a book of business, you inherit, you have guaranteed income. So us being the crazy people that we are, we find this out in the fall of 2013. We buy house, we get a new puppy, I quit my job, we get married and we open up our insurance agency with no guaranteed income in a six month time frame. So we, yeah, of course we did. Like what else can you do here?

And we killed it.

We killed it.

Like I don't recommend that for many people.

No, I don't either, either.

A 3 or an 8 will really make shit happen like that.

So I love that. Yeah, so that's how I ended up. It was one of those if we're going to do this, we're going to go all in. So I got my licensing, quit my job and we started and we've from the very beginning we understood that together we are so much stronger than we ever are apart. And so if we use our skill sets together instead of focusing on where we can improve from a weakness standpoint, let's just run with our strengths and make our strengths stronger then it works. And it did. We didn't kill each other. We're still married. It's been, no, it was almost eight years.

I mean it was fantastic. And then she, yeah, she kind of got, I don't want to say bored with the insurance industry, but she then went off and started her own personal training business about 18 months into the agency and wildly successful. Within six months she had created a six figure income business and was just wildly successful. But when she left the agency, a part of me left, part of myself left because I loved working with her. And that's why then we started the coaching and consulting business and now work together full time. And that's why we ended up giving up the brokerage which was a multiple six figure income but it just wasn't serving our purpose anymore. It honestly was taking time away from us working together. And as she said, we work together, we're 10 times more powerful than we are apart.

I am getting really emotional just looking at you too and like this is genuine. They're not putting on a show, you guys. Like this is 1000% so genuine and what so many people crave and try to force because they're, they're focusing and coming from the weakness aspect of it and trying to fix and like you've got and we'll kind of touch on your, but like really harnessing your gifts and even though you're very similar, you're very, very different. And I want everybody Listening right now to really take some good notes here and. And follow along and then do the work. Do the work that it takes. It's one thing to know it, but then to actually take action on it. And the good thing about you both being threes, you're not slow to take any action ever. Right. I don't know why I'm so emotional. It's just beautiful to see.

Like, thank you.

And it's probably the industry too, because it's so close to my heart. I grew up in that, and I know how important it is to know that that's taken care of so you can actually go live your freaking life and just worry so much about everything and bracing for impact all the time. What you guys do do, like, nobody likes paying an insurance premium. None of us love it, but it gives you the freedom of choice to go live your life. And you guys really have taken that business model and done some cool stuff with it. Before we get into that, though, there's another part of the enneagram that a lot of people don't know about, and it's called these centers of expressions. So typically, being an enneagram 3, you're in the feeling center of intelligence. We have, you know, the instinctual center, which is like the body, which is where I fall. Where, you know, our first thing is like, we process and communicate based on instincts. The three typically falls into that feeling center of intelligence where you do and communicate and process through your heart. And then we have the thinking center of intelligence where everything kind of goes through the brain capacity. And although you typically fall into the feeling center, neither of you dominate in that expression. Like, you do feel, obviously. But Courtney, center of expression is like action. Like I am. Where it's like, what do we got to do? Okay, we're freaking doing it now. And Michael is more in that intellectual part. Like, he automatically goes into processing intellectually. And I think that's also being a guy, but especially that self preservation part of you. So this is probably where Courtney's very touchy feely with love. She's very acts of service, right? Yeah. Where Michael creates space. He can have the deeper conversations where you are go, go, go, go, go, and do, do, do, do, do. He'll slow the roll a little bit and not just all up in his head, but like, he can understand. Like, this is what's required for us to have intimacy on every level. Does that sound about right for you too?

Yeah, yeah. I'm always trying to. This is everything. Look at step 75. Like, even if we're putting something together. Say we get something and there's directions. I don't, I chuck the directions. Don't even care. Like, let's just get into it. Give me the tools. Let's just start putting it together. Whereas he pauses, reads through.

Give me those directions, please.

Let's understand where we're.

Thank God he's a self preservation. Because seriously, he keeps your ass in line a little bit in a good way.

Could you imagine, like I'd be off in the weeds every day.

Because I have an idea, I'm ready to act by the time it comes out of my mouth. This should have been done six months ago. And he's the one who pulls the reins back and processes. You're going to catch him. If you were to meet him, he's going to be having deep, intimate conversations one on one with people. The most common thing I hear from him is he's a fantastic listener. Your husband is such a great listener. I'm like, yeah, I know, but did you look at my earrings?

I waited for you. Tell me how amazing I am.

Talk to me.

I love it.

Yeah.

And that's also that self preservation part of him. And it's really, really a good balance. So the thing about the enneagram 3. So again, in that center of intelligence, operating on feelings, significance is the main driver. Right. Like a two will find significance in what they do for other people. The three finds significance in what they do or achieve or how they appear. The four find significance in internally, like this quest of like, what is my true purpose here? And as somebody that falls into that need for significance, even in a healthy way, it's a healthy, like Tony Robbins says, it's one of the six human needs. Right? It is. And when you're coming at it from a healthy place, that's awesome. But when we're not as healthy, sometimes that need for significance will have us comparing or measuring ourselves up against other people or measuring up against our prior version of ourself and that, you know, moving that finish line all the time. And usually what follows that measuring stick is a shame stick. Yeah, right. When we don't feel like we live up to an expectation or the goal or the vision or whatever other you've probably each told yourselves along the way in your 30 something years. But what happens for a three is when that shame comes up, instead of feeling it, quite often they will bury it with activities and like, let's just set another goal so we don't have to feel the pain of it. Yeah. Do either of you struggle with that currently or have you in your life? And what does that look like for each of you?

Oh, I still struggle with that. This year was a big year for comparison and measuring. And we had this conversation the other night actually about quit moving the goalpost, quit moving the finish line, because we constantly will move the finish line. For me, coming off of 2020 and getting back into the world, I found myself measuring a lot. Measuring myself, measuring how I showed up prior to how I'm showing up now, what success looks like. I kept changing the definition of success.

Why were you doing that, do you think?

I have really big goals and I was trying to figure out who do I have to be to hit those goals and that that can be really healthy or that can send you into a spiral for sure of who am I and what is my purpose here. So towards the latter part of this year, 2021, I've really tried to focus on the experience and then taking care of my future version of myself. Instead of comparing myself to, you know, how much money do they have versus how do I have and how does that make me feel about myself? How much success do they have versus how much success do I have and how does that make me feel about myself? What would the highest version of myself do in this situation? That's my question now. What am I doing now that takes care of the highest version of myself and how do I take care of the future version of Courtney? Because everything else is going to continually change. The perception, the actual reality, success, all of those things. How I define my worth in the world will change. But if I can just take care of how I'm showing up internally for myself, how I'm taking care of myself and then making sure that I'm taking care of the future version of myself, that's really all I can do.

And what about you, Michael? When. When like the shame stick comes out and you don't want to deal with it, or maybe you do deal with it, what does that look like for you?

I usually start working on more goals. Just to be honest, I'm a workaholic. Like when some unexpected things get thrown my way, especially younger on in my life, but even till today, I mean, we went through some stuff this year where we lost some people that were really close to us and it was somebody I considered a best friend. And instead of dealing with it at the time, I just set some really big goals and got to work and went back to working 15, 16, 17 hour days. But I will tell you, we put in A lot of time and work the last two years with experts and with going to like, Sedona is one of our favorite places to go and meeting with experts there. And so at the same time, even though I started working more, we also have a really open line of communication and we both knew that we were going through things and so we were making intentional time. And granted, it took four months to finally process everything and get through it. That we didn't let that devastate us. It didn't. Like now, granted, maybe I had an unhealthy work relationship at that point in time, but I felt like we were still like having time to ourselves because we're very intentional with our time at night. But I went back to answer your question. When I get super stressed like that or something, really, I go to work. Like I set a goal and I just go to work.

And that is a typical like three thing. It's like, well, we're just going to bury this. And you know, this is the beautiful part about wisdom and experience in life is, you know, you buried enough, eventually it's going to come up and knock you on your ass eventually. So I love that you took the time to, yeah, you still have big ass goals and that's not going to change. But you also recognize that you can't bypass the feeling of this stuff because it will, it will eventually take. The big thing for a three is like when they don't want to feel and they just set bigger goals and keep moving the goal line and they don't honor the soul line. Like eventually your body is going to take the hit and your health will suffer or your relationships do. And so both of you really identifying like this does not feel good. I don't want to feel it. I'd rather crush goals. However, you have enough wisdom, experience, work on yourself to know that this won't play the long game very well. Yeah, this will be a short, a very strong short game if we just kind of crush goals. But you guys have a lot of life to live and a lot of things to do in this world. So I just honor you both for leaning in no matter how long it took to do that. So you guys listening? Michael is a self preservation three, which doesn't look like your typical three and often is mistyped as that one. And so like that self preservation, you know, they're not as flashy. And so he is all about like work ethic and excellence. Where Courtney is, you know, the social three, where prestige, influence, competitiveness, like she does fit the bill of that. And you can see where bringing them together is like the most powerful combination, I think, of any Enneagram when you have a self preservation three and a social three because they're not competing for attention. That would be very tricky. Right. The other part of the Enneagram that I, you know, even in just listening to you both, I can hear how you're elegantly using your Enneagram wings, which you may not even be aware of what those are. Right. And I explain the wings as like extra tools in the tool belt. Right. You know, we all know how to use a screwdriver. We don't need a YouTube tutorial, we don't need to Google that shit. We know how to use a screwdriver. And your core type, your 3ness is like the screwdriver. Right? You know, you know how to be a three. It's easy. Now, having the right tool for the job really is important for effectiveness. All the things that make having, I mean, think about doing a DIY project. We always grab the screwdriver because we know how to use it. But sometimes we need a fricking chainsaw. Right. And so the wings of your core type. So as a three, you have a two on one side of you on the Enneagram and a four on the other. And I was looking at like your assessments and stuff and you both do lean in heavy to your two wing. Now, the goal is to be able to use both. It's like you've got the tools right there. You might as well learn how to effectively use them and when it's important to use them. And so the goal is to really use the wings when the three isn't always the right tool for the job. Because although you guys are good at seeing the goal, hitting the goal quite often, there's a lot of people involved.

Yeah.

And emotions and on your. You're striving to see the goal and hit the goal. You can leave a lot of people in your dust if you're not careful. And it can make people feel like a pawn or just part of your bigger picture. I know that that's not what you guys do, but if people have their own kind of shit, they'll project that onto you. Right. Being mindful that, especially in a business, and especially as something as personal as insurance with people, whether it's the agents or even a client, like being mindful that, okay, I know my 3ness can kind of be a lot and intense and very aggressive and assertive. Even the self preservation one, your confidence is very energetically strong. Like, it's evident like, you're intimidating in all the beautiful ways that an angel likes. But most of the people that you're dealing with probably aren't eights or threes like you. Right. And so with the two wing, what I'll usually tell a three, like, before they, like, just go in hot to a situation. Courtney. Especially.

Because Michael will kind of like sit back and observe first before he takes action where you'll just fuck it, go for it.

Yeah.

So what I'll usually tell three is kind of check in with the two tool first. The two wing. Okay. There's people involved here, and they have feelings.

They have feelings. And so if I actually stopped to really feel, like my feelings, and if my worth was tied into how people thought about what people thought about me, how would I need to receive this information or how would I need to receive this action? Right? Because twos can be very sensitive. They're. They're still significance driven, but they need to know that they're loved and appreciated. Like, it's really, really where you just need to know you're the best. They need to know, like, that they're loved and appreciated. And so really knowing the right language to use, especially if you're talking to a bunch of sales agents, like, some of them are sales agents in the insurance industry because they just want to help people. They're not necessarily. Like, my uncle was there. He was a three hardcore three two. And he had a whole huge brokerage. Like, huge. But he was like, okay, we're going to, like, do it it. We're gonna kill it. But a lot of people that work for him were like, we just want to help the people.

Both are important, right? Yes. So the good thing about being a three is you have direct access to that too. And you can lean heavy into that. It doesn't mean you're ever going to be motivated like a 2, but it's right there.

Yeah.

All right. Now the other part that I see you both doing so beautifully because a lot of times a three, especially if they're not so healthy, they'll use that two wing in a manipulative way. Like, how can I say the right thing to get these people on my side because, you know, with more people on my mission, we can crush this a lot faster. And I see, especially in network marketing court, like, I see a lot of threes figure this two wing out and use it in a not so beautiful, elegant way. But you two really do use it for what's best for the people. Like, you really, really do. Now the other part that a lot of threes stop at, but I see both of you use really beautifully. Courtney, I especially use. See you using. This is the four wing. Michael uses the four wing for, like, purpose. And like, this is, this is my mission. This is, this is what I'm here to do. This is like why you even got started in the insurance industry. It was all about, like this unique experience that you had as a child watching your father. Right. That's the four wing. They're all on this constant quest of, like, what's my sole purpose here? Like, why am I here? They're great creatives, storytellers, comedians. They're all like, about emotion and intuition. Although you aren't flashy with it. Michael, it is so deeply rooted in you and it's beautiful. It's so freaking beautiful. Court, you're the creative. Like, you guys need to watch their reels and tiktoks.

I'm sure she's the creative behind it.

I am.

Michael executes.

Yes. Yeah.

So, Courtney, you use a four wing in the creative expression of bringing the mission and the vision and the purpose behind what you guys do to light in a way that we can all receive it where we don't see it as boring insurance crap.

Yeah.

Like, you make it actually really interesting and exciting and make me, like, when I think about when I was a four year old and my dad would talk insurance to me, my big green eyes were like, okay, dad, I don't understand, but I get it. Like, if he had had a little bit of a four wing or even some four in him to bring, it's what you guys are doing to the rest of us in a way that we can digest it, appreciate it, and fall in love with it. And also when you guys were deciding, like, what do we really want, do we get rid of the brokerage? Like, that four wing is, what am I here to fucking do? Not because it's measured, not because it makes us the most money, not because everybody says, oh my God, look at the Weavers. Like, the four wing is all about what are we here to do? Yeah, what is our purpose? And you guys are perfect examples of using that four wing as like your final filter to run everything you do through. And that is what makes you so amazing. Like your 3 in you will always. You will never worry for money. You will always make shit happen. But I'm sure sometimes in your life you've made shit happen. And it felt pretty soulless.

Yeah.

Unfulfilling. It's like what you said, you kept moving the finish line, but now instead of the goal line, you guys really honor the soul line, which is the goal for an Enneagram 3. And that's the Holy Grail of Enneagram 3 land. Does that, like, ring true for you guys?

I don't even know how to receive that. Thank you so much for that. Yeah, that rings true. But. And, and I'm receiving that the best way I can because it was amazing. Thank you.

It's really beautiful to see that. And knowing the insurance industry like I do from a little girl's point of view. And the most important men in my life were very dedicated to that for 30 plus years. To see what you guys do for the industry is really, really admirable and beautiful to watch. There's two other numbers connected to your enneagram 3ness other than your wings. And you can use both of these tools in healthy and not healthy ways. One of them usually is your go to when, like, overwhelm has hit. Right? And so for both of you, since you're threes, your stressor Number is an enneagram9. The good news is, is you can use this in a healthy way. And you do use the enneagram 9 in your closer, comfortable relationships like it's the peacemaker. If Jesus was an Enneagram type, I believe Jesus was a nine. Okay. It's the ability to include everyone, to speak in a way that's for the greatest good. Court, you use this a lot because you're that social kind of instinct anyway, so you use it a little differently than Michael does in a healthy way. But when you are pushed to the brink and overwhelmed and you've over yesed yourself and kept moving the finish line, you can kind of go to the unhealthy parts of the nine, which is like a sloth. And chances are nobody outside of you two have ever seen either of you in that where you're like horizontal with the Ho Hos and Netflix.

So I call this a snow day.

When we.

So when we first started dating and we had been together for a while, I shared this part of my personality because he thought I. I had a shitty immune system. He thought I was sick all the time. Because I would have to have these days of. As an introvert, too, as a very social introvert, I have to have my charge time. But if I'm not healthy and things aren't balanced, I do. I will retreat, I will withdraw. And I call them a snow day. Where it's like there's no Expectations, I turn into a. And it's actually a superpower now because then I can just tap into it and know this is where I'm going. This is how I'm going to recharge.

Intentional move instead of. I've burned my body, my relationships, my soul out. Now it's like, before you hit that, you take a beautiful retreat.

Yep, I take a snow day.

And Tracy, it was like, literally, because I'm somebody that never gets sick, and I'm like, babe, I think. I think something's wrong. I think we should go to the doctor and really figure out what's going on. And then that's when she, like, that's.

Why when you're talking about there, like.

A few years, even as close as we are for her to be true, that's really, really deep. Like, that's being very, very vulnerable when you actually think about it. And so it was probably just three years ago, two and a half years ago, that she. That we literally sit down and had a conversation and she's like, okay, I need to tell you something. And she's like, I'm not sick. I just need rest.

And how powerful that is for three to not let people, even the person, your person.

Like, as an 8, I won't go to that vulnerable card too. Like, I go to the five cave. You call it a snow day. I'm in my five cave for the very same reasons. Like, and I don't want you to see me as weak. So I kind of just go off into like caveman land. Yep. I love that you shared the snow day with him and what that really meant. All you threes listening right now, take notes because I say this all the time when I do one on one calls with the three and I talk about that unhealthy nine, the sloth. It's kind of like eeyore, like, I don't give a shit, Whatever, just put me horizontal and I don't care and let me not focus on anything. But for A3 to admit that it's very hard. And that's why I said only you two have probably seen that. And Michael's a little bit more proactive because he is more that self preservation type where he will be more cautionary with that. So I love that you guys talk about that with each other.

It was huge, though. Like, it was one for her to even be vulnerable enough to say that that automatically grew our relationship. Like, our relationship was already strong and it was just like, wow, okay. Because that helped me understand because now I'm Even, like, I encourage her now when I see her start to get run down, I'm like, like, babe, you should take a snow day tomorrow. Like, just take a day, get some rest. Like, well.

And I feel validated when he says that, because then it doesn't feel like I'm being weak or that I can't get it done. Because the lie that creeps up for me is, you should be able to get all this done, right? Like, why can't you get this done? You should be able to get all of this done. But shoulds we all know about should.

So being able to, like, as an eight, I'll go to. I should be strong enough and powerful enough to be able to power through where you guys, like. Like, you guys do crush everything. You should be able to crush at where I feel like a strong girl would be able to handle anything. So and so that's how I got myself into trouble like that too. Wow, you guys, it's so powerful. And vulnerability is like the key to intimacy. Like, it's into me. You see.

For you, I know how hard that probably was. I mean, it was just three years ago. You've been together a decade. Yep. I get it. Yeah, I get it. So the holy grail for each Enneagram type, you know, most of us, once we know our type, are like, yay, I'm a three. Like, how do I be the best three in the world? Especially threes. You're like, how do I be the best three in the world? Yeah. Well, how you be the best three in the world is to not look like a three sometimes. So we each have a growth number. And usually the growth number is our biggest stretch. It's the one that's hard for us to be like. So mine is the enneagram2, which is like the compassionate, empathetic person. Like, I don't naturally ever go there ever. I can do it. I do it elegantly now, but I need my wings to push me there. Right. If I'm left to my eightness, that's not happening. So this is where the wings really will help you. And I do see Michael go into his growth number a lot. I think this is also because he's self preservation and more cautious and more kind of like about certainty and security a little bit more than you. So this might be easier for him than you. And it's totally understandable.

Are you going to say my growth number is a six? Oh, my gosh. Please don't. Oh, no.

Exactly.

Bingo. Oh, no. Cautious and troubleshooting and Slowing down and figuring out all the worst case scenarios and having six different plans for one goal like that feels like torture to you, Courtney?

Yes, yes. So much.

He's okay with it because that's the self preservation gift right there.

Oh my God.

This explains so much. This is very good.

My sister in law is a six and it's the best relationship ever because she plans everything. She gets it all lined. She's already researched and worried about everything. Got it all like, okay, if this happens, here's plan B and C. And I'm like, let's just roll, baby. Like it's all going to work itself out. We can muscle our way through this. So my best friend is a self.

Perf preservation six to the core and she's a Virgo. But the sixes need to ask lots of questions. And you and I, Courtney, specifically as an 8, don't question me because I will cut you. You don't want to be questioned because you got shit to do. Yeah. But we both need to slow our role a little bit to keep us out of trouble. Right. And so. And you've been doing it like 2020 for both you and I was a big, huge gift because we were forced to. To slow.

Yeah.

We didn't necessarily like it, but there wasn't this external pressure that the world has put on both you and I as women. High achieving women, three and eights, like, we're very misunderstood sometimes. But 2020 was the gift in the way where we didn't have a choice. And so we could kind of like explore this. But then when we're coming out of it, I did the same thing at the beginning of 2020, 2021, when the world started to open up. The pressure I put on myself was very similar to yours for the same freaking reasons. It's like, well, I've been retreating for a whole year.

It's.

Let's go. Yeah.

Right. But using that six, like whenever, you know, and I, I think back to that hour plus conversation that you and I had about a month ago.

Oh, yeah.

That was very much you leaning into the six and that was very uncomfortable for you. And you did it. It, you did it. Did you take action on it?

Maybe.

Maybe some of the things. Maybe not all the things. Yeah. But you and I both know what that was about. That was preparing and troubleshooting what was coming for you both. Yeah. Like you slowed down enough to kind of get information and insight on it. And when the timing is right, when you're leaning into that 2 and 4, you'll execute whenever you need to with that.

Yeah.

But you slowed down enough to actually, like, explore that.

Yay.

Give yourself an A.

So what is the one area? Like, probably not as much because you guys have done a lot of work over the last, you know, decade together. What is the one area in your life that you always kind of have to like, keep your thumb on the pulse where you guys as a couple can go sideways as two. Enneagram3, please.

For me, it's about making things look a certain way to fit. How do I accurately say this? The flash. It's pulling back on the flash and trying to not make it look so picture perfect and just to show up and let it.

Let it.

If it flops, it flops and be okay with it flopping. I think it's really that navigating that line of, is this a failure or is this a lesson? And are you learning from this and moving forward? And you don't have to make it look pretty and you don't have to be the high achiever all the time, and you can just let it be what it is. So that's the thing that I have to watch is how things look and then how it impacts my self worth.

Well, and that can rob you of intimacy and vulnerability. Like, if we're just putting on this show.

Yeah.

You know, and I. I'm guilty of that in the past too. Like. Like keeping this outward appearance looking really good. It takes away the vulnerable piece between you two and then robs you of intimacy and then, you know, what happens from there. Yeah. So I love that that's your kind of focus. What's yours, Michael, where you kind of probably into workaholism, probably as an element of that.

Just because legacy is such a big, like, to my core, that's what drives me. Like, I want to be as valuable as I can to people, and I want to create a life. I want to plant seeds in my oak tree of the shade I'm never going to see. And that's what I'm focused on every day. I mean, I'm lucky that I truly am lucky. I feel this way that we're even still together because for the first three years of our relationship, she saw me on Sundays and that was it. And then it didn't get much better when we started the business, except for I saw her every day because we worked together. But I have to be very in tune with that because I don't know if there's such thing as a work life balance. I just think that we're all doing life. Okay. And it's just one big journey and you have to make intentional time for those things that are important. And so I think that that's one thing I really have to keep. I have to keep my thumb on because if not, I will work from 6 in the morning till 9 at night, 10 at night, every night. And so what we try to do to make sure that we're making intentional time is we try to have a shutoff time by 8:00 clock at night. And then we don't watch TV, we don't turn on the TV. Like, we just. Just talk for like an hour to two hours of just, how was your day? What's the best thing that happened today? And that's one thing I really have to keep my eye on anyways.

Yeah. And my person in my world was my uncle and I told you guys he was a hardcore three, like to the core with also a strong two wing like both of you. And you know, he had a seven month cancer diagnosis and he was planting the seeds of the oak trees for the shade he would never see too. And it. Thank God, he's like, you guys really do make things happen in the world. But we want you guys to enjoy it too. And I know I would give anything for him to even have a week of the legacy that he created and to be able to just enjoy it. So my reminder to you both and to every enneagram 3 out there is like, we know you'll make things happen and we don't have to worry about the legacy you'll leave behind. It will be epic beyond measure. We want you guys to know that you don't have to produce in order to create a legacy. I want you to enjoy it as much as all of us get to reap the benefits of all you guys do in the world. So thank you guys so much for doing this.

Thank you. This is great. Oh my gosh. I love this so much, you guys.

I know. Like, just follow them for the reels alone. They're the best. There's three people's reels that I consistently watch and you guys are one of them. You can follow Courtney on Instagram at Courtney v.

Instagram. And Michael is underscore Michaelweaver on Instagram. If you want to learn more about what they do at Weaver Sales Academy, you can go to weaversa.com to learn more about that. What do you guys want to tell the people out there? Listening.

Oh, wow. Thank you for listening. Thank you for giving us your time and sharing time with us, it truly is the most valuable thing that, that you own. And we appreciate you so much. This is your year. Be yourself. Show up on purpose. Serve others, Have a whole lot of fun.

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you guys so much for your time today. We appreciate it. And the magic happens when you get vulnerable. So step outside your comfort zone and do the hard things.

What is one piece of advice to close it out that you would give for somebody that really loves an enneagram 3 that might not always understand what you guys are about?

Hold space for them.

What does that mean? Because threes don't sit still long enough for us to hold space sometimes.

And sometimes we like to. I like to move and talk. So if I'm walking, like get me physical, have me doing something to where I'm distracted, to where I don't. I'm not talking about, you know, work or something along those lines. We have to feel safe in order to be vulnerable. Be patient with us because we move very quickly and we change our minds a lot because we're always creating. So I think that's the biggest thing. Just be patient with us and know that we're not, we're not intimidating, we're not trying to be rude or brash. We just have a lot of stuff to get done in a short amount of time.

What about you, Michael? What's one advice you'd give?

I think, and obviously I'm kind of a different type of three. So maybe it's I think knowing that you don't have to understand, like you don't have to understand everything about your spouse. You don't have to understand everything about your friends or, or about the, the three. But like she said, be patient. Open line of communication I think is very, very important. And that's just in life in general. But if somebody makes you. If your spouse is a three and they make you feel a certain way because they do something, have the conversation around, hey, this is what you did. And it made me feel this way because I guarantee they're not doing it on purpose. They're just a go getter. Like they're straight line. This is how we do it. Let's get it done. And so yeah, holding that space, being patient. Most importantly, you don't have to understand, like there's no need to try to understand something that's really hard to understand. Just hold the space.

Oh my gosh, you guys, I loved this so, so, so, so much. And I love you both. Like we love you. Seriously. You guys really make me happy.

This is so fun.

Isn't it great? I love it.

I love this so much.

I get asked about couples and the Enneagram all the time and you guys were a beautiful example of that. And if you are listening right now and want want to dive in further, whether you know your Enneagram type or not, you can dive deep with me. You can go to traciomalley.com, the work with me section and do that there. You can find me on Instagram at tracee Underscore o' Malley and I would be honored to take you through the whole Enneagram journey. You guys, I love you so much. Thank you for pouring into me and everybody listening right now. I love you guys.

Love you.

Absolutely. Y' all do yourselves a favor. Tracy is amazing at what she does. Definitely. Definitely take a visit to her website and give her. Give her a shot.

You guys rock.

I'm so happy you enjoyed the Leadership Formula podcast. Please help us spread the word about this show by sharing it with a friend and leaving a written Apple podcast review. If you have any follow up questions questions to this episode, you can DM me directly on Instagram at tracyomalley. You can also find additional resources on my website@tracyomalley.com I'm excited to lead you into the next level of your life.