EP235: Live Enneagram Typing Session, Making Anything Happen—Including Happiness with RT Custer (Enneagram 3)

Welcome to the Leadership Formula podcast, where you will learn the secret sauce behind achieving massive success. I'm your host, Tracy o', Malley, multimillion dollar entrepreneur, your Enneagram expert, master performance coach, and mom to millennials. Do you want deep, meaningful relationships to wake up every day with purpose and make money doing something you love? Well, you've landed in the right place. Every week, I will teach you how to get exactly what you want in life by strengthening your emotional intelligence. Using a combination of the Enneagram framework, live life coaching sessions, and real talk from yours truly, it's time to transform yourself into the ultimate leader of your life. Let's do this thing.

Hey. Hey.

And welcome back to another episode of the Leadership Formula podcast. Today's episode is going to be one of your favorites. You guys love the live Enneagram typing sessions, and today's guest has really become somebody that I really love. Respect. He fascinates me. I see a lot of myself in him. I met him over a year ago in the mastermind that I'm part of, I've been part of for several, several years, and especially the last two years, I've met probably the most dynamic, real people I've ever met. And R.T. custer was in it last year, and I didn't get to know him very well. We both have very intense, strong personalities, for sure. We both command rooms when we walk in, and sometimes that is just too much for two people to connect, right? And depending on where you're at in the journey, that is probably why we didn't connect a lot last year. And as you guys hear his story and where he's at today, it makes a lot of sense why this year is our year for sure. To connect and really just support each other. Because he definitely brings shit to the table that I need. He. I admire his work ethic and all the things, and when I first met him, I thought he might have been innate because of that intensity and that. That power. Right? Like that need for power. But as you guys have heard, like, we can show behaviors, and a lot of times those are just coping mechanisms. But usually the behaviors that we show the world are protecting the biggest vulnerabilities and our biggest fears, right? And so although the eight and the three often look very much alike behaviorally, at the motive level, they're very, very different. And I'm pretty sure he's a three. And we'll figure it out. I'm almost confident. But, like, on these assessments, like, like I've told you guys, sometimes they're. They're not right. And I'm going to tell you, 8 and 3 are like neck and neck. But I think the more I've gotten to know him, I think three is the lead horse. RT I'm so excited that you're here. Welcome.

Thank you so much for having me, Tracy. It's an honor.

He is a high achiever. Seriously. He has three different companies. I'm fascinated every time I hear what he's done, he took on. What company did you take on? You were in a lawsuit with the.

Swatch Group, the world's largest watch company.

World's largest watch company. He's got an amazing watch company. I can't wait to tell you guys more about it or have him tell you more about it. And they were suing him. What'd they sue you for?

Trademark infringement and counterfeiting.

And those are not slouchy kind of accusations. And going against the largest watch company in the world is no easy task. Or cheap. Right. And he's the little guy and the thing. And most would have just caved and he went toe to toe with them and fricking won.

We won. Yep. Long story short, for sure.

Yeah. So how many years did that take?

About six years worth of back and forth. Yep.

And how much in legal fees did you have to pony up for that?

On our side, north is six figures. Not. Not too far north, but over a hundred thousand for sure.

Crazy. And what. What was your purpose other than obviously I know you love to win. We've talked a lot about winning, but what was the main motivator to staying in this until it was over?

Yeah. So the trademark part of it was the big one. And to sum it up, the case is Hamilton versus Vortic, my company being Vortic Watch Company. And we take antique American pocket watches and turn them into one of a kind wristwatches. Hamilton was one of the great American watch companies in the late 1800s, early 1900s in the United States. They were in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. And so when we take an antique Hamilton pocket watch and convert it into a Vortic wristwatch, it still says Hamilton on the face of the watch. And so that creates a trademark issue where technically it's a Vortic watch that we manufactured modern day using 100-year-old piece of history that says their name on it. The Swatch Group owns the brand of Hamilton. And so they were basically accusing us of using their name to make money. And so that was the thing that we had to overcome. And my why in fighting it overall was integrity ethical? Bottom line in order to settle that lawsuit or walk away, I would have been admitting guilt falsefully. I would have been saying that taking an antique American pocket watch and turning to wristwatch in general was wrong. The trademark and that Hamilton was secondary to the fact of. I felt like I was defending the art and the right to upcycle or recycle. And by saying that taking a Hamilton pocket watch, turning your wristwatch was wrong, then theoretically, my entire business model of taking any pocket watch and turning your wristwatch was wrong. Because other people, dozens of other brands exist. Elgin, Waltham, Illinois, Ball, all the other great American watch companies, all those trademarks are owned by other people. So I would have been falsely admitting guilt to something that would have basically shut down our whole company if it were true. So that's really what I felt like I was fighting for and we were fighting for.

So one of the things that I was laughing about earlier, you guys RT voice messaged me and he's like, first of all, did you get my assessment and did I win? And I love that when we think of the Enneagram 3, the competitive achiever, like, they win at winning. They want to win everything. They will bulldoze anybody to win. And eights can also be very competitive. Like, I will win at all costs if I choose to compete. Now, are you somebody that will compete at anything to win, or are you very selective on what you'll compete at?

I would say selective in general. I don't play a sport if I know I'm not going to be good at it.

Hmm. Even if you enjoy it or you don't enjoy it unless you're good at it?

Yeah, I think. I think more the latter. I am tall and six foot two and so my, my friends when I was younger, they said, oh, you should play basketball, Volleyball, Right. Like, I got into volleyball and that was fun. But I just, I'm. I'm awkward and lanky and like, I'm not good at, like, throw. Football and basketball are not my thing, like throwing a ball. And so I just never did it. I tried baseball a little bit when I was younger and even that, you know, it wasn't my thing. I'm golf and tennis and more recently just golf.

But interesting. Do you think that part of that is because they're individual sports and, you know, part of team sports is if you're. Even if you are like, you know, the star of the show, you've got the rest of the team and if they suck, they bring you down. Do you think that part of you maybe Gravitating towards individual sports. Cause then it's all on you and you like it that way. And then if you're going to win, you're going to win.

I think you just figured it out for me, so thank you because, yeah, I think you're totally right. Even in tennis, tennis was kind of half team and half. Not. I played doubles and you count the points as a, as a whole team, but it was mostly on you and your individual skillset. And golf is. Yeah, it's just you all the time. There are games, you know, subsections of golf where you can play as a team, but it's mostly scramble or something. Yeah, but it's mostly just. Just you. So. Yeah, I think nail on the head. That's, that's probably why I like golf, because I'm, I'm, I'm good enough at it. I'm not the best, but my, my friend Tyler, my business partner in Vortic, he's better at golf than I am on most days. But some days, you know, I just, I just don't. I go out there and I don't really worry about it. I mostly play golf for the social aspect and sometimes I'll like, hit a shot that's really good. And he's just like, fuck you, man. Like, how did you, how do you. You don't even practice. Like, you didn't even, you walked off the, the, you walked out of your car, you cracked open a beer and then you hit the better shot than I've hit, you know, all day practicing. That's why I like golf, is because you get those one or two like, highs of like a really good shot. You don't have to play a whole game and, and you don't even have to keep score. That's the way I play.

So when it comes to winning, like I said, the 8 and the 3 are very similar. When we decide to compete, we will bulldoze anybody in our path. Right. I love to win. However, the motive behind that can be very, very different for me as an eight. And I'm curious for you what this looks like on these assessments. I scored as a three originally, but I knew, like, I'm not motivated at all because the three is motivated by significance. Right. The eight is motivated by independence and autonomy. Right. So the three, their motive to win is to be the best to show the world that they're the best. For an eight, we win to prove how strong we are. There's a big difference, right?

Yep.

So, like, even in business, like, I mean, When I decide to like go all in business wise, like, nobody's going to touch me. It's why like, even in this space, like there's tons of enneagram people out there, but nobody can hold a candle to the way that I do it because I've, I'm passionate about it and want to kind of like have my own little like independent scenario going on. I've always been like that. Even though I can look very achiever, like, right. But my motive behind anything I do business wise is to not ever have to rely on anybody, period. End of story. For a three, they will drive the line because they want to prove they're the best. And that's, you know, you have multiple businesses at this point and I'm sure people in your life have said when is enough enough?

All the time.

So what is the motive for you to be the best? Do you believe at some level, like, you're only worthy if you crush it?

You know, I, I'm in it for the war stories, not the medals.

Oh, really?

Thinking about golf is, is helpful because like, if we were playing a game and keeping score, I would care much less about winning on the scorecard than I would about having a really good shot that everyone talked about or doing something funny that people are like, oh, like he didn't he even try? He just like finished his beer and took a swing and it went in the hole. You know, like that's, that's what's mode. Like the recognition after the fact. Like as we're all hanging out after playing the sport or doing the talk or making the sale, the joy I. And the joy and the energy I get from like closing a business deal or making the sale is less than the joy I feel for someone else afterwards. Recognizing me for doing that thing. Does that make sense?

Yeah, very, very much. Okay, this is going to make things more interesting then because that resonates very much with an 8, for sure. I asked somebody this question yesterday who thought they were a three as well and ended up being an eight. I'm going to give you this scenario. Would you rather like, let's say you love golf, right? Or even tennis? You are like in a really tough match with somebody and it's like back and forth and back and forth and you're having to like pull it out of your ass to even compete, but you're like neck and neck with each other and you end up losing. Do you like that scenario? And does that fire you up and this is most of your life, not like more of this personally developed self, I really want you to kind of go here with me. Or would you prefer just annihilating somebody and winning? Because I'll give you an example for me. So back in college, I played high level softball and I was really good, right? And my big thing that I'm known for in that was that I hit a home run from both sides of the plate and back to back at bats. Like, one time I get up, hit it right handed, the next time hit it left handed. Like, that's awesome. And that's a great stat. And nobody in my college had ever done that and probably still hasn't. However, like, the little asterisk there is. We killed the team like 40 to 3. So like, it wasn't like the guy or the chick was throwing, you know, 80 mile an hour underhand fastballs at me.

He was teeing it up for you.

Exactly. But like, I like that stat, but, you know, I would much prefer be in like extra innings, like getting dirty and losing. I would much prefer that than a stat like that. So that's the reason why I'm asking you, which do you prefer? Crushing the competition or having a good match but losing?

I think the second one, having a good match, because that's a better story, that's a better experience, that's more fun, it's more of a challenge.

Even as a kid, you felt that way. Like when you lost as a kid.

I remember distinctly in tennis, losing, but still getting praised for putting in a lot of effort. Like in, you know, in tennis, it wasn't like it was 606060, right? It was like I hung in there and it was deuces for a while and back and forth and like just really trying to fight for it and still lost. And I got a lot of praise for basically not giving up when I knew I wasn't quite as good.

Did you believe the praise though? Did you believe the praise or did you think they were kind of just like, like, did you really like own that praise and feel good about it or you heard it and you know you got the praise, but it's like.

Fuck, no, I believed it because. Well, you know what, I believed it if and when it was coming from someone I respected, like my, my parents or my tennis coach, when they gave me praise for, for effort and trying and still not winning, I took that to heart. Um, when other, other people, like your teammates on the sideline cheering you on, like, I never got anything from that.

Right. I get that.

I don't, I don't know if that really answers your question, but that's a good one. That's hard for me because I could definitely. I could definitely go either way on it. But like I said, for me it's more about, like, that, the war stories of the battling and like, figuring it out. I haven't been in too many situations where I'm so much better than someone else at something that I completely annihilate the situation.

What about business, though?

Even in that, like, you know, I've always taken on worthy opponents or I don't even know there's a competition. You know, like, I'm like, in watches, when we're selling watches, I don't think of Vortic watch company as a watch company. We make conversation pieces. The fact that they tell time is almost irrelevant. I don't look at Rolex and Omega and Swatch Group and Fossil and Shinola and all these other watch companies as competition because they do something very different. I'm selling a story. I'm selling a piece of history. I'm not selling a watch. And so I guess in some ways you could look at that as annihilating the competition because I'm not even. They're not even on my radar.

Right.

But in other ways it's different. You know, I. I don't. I don't even look at it like competition. I look at it as just existing in the same path and me winning in the sense of I made the sale.

So when it comes to preferring the war stories versus the medals, why do you think you prefer the war story over the actual metal? What is it about that? What does that give you?

Personally, I think it earns more respect from others long term.

What about for you? If nobody was watching and nobody was measuring and nobody was acknowledging the medals or the end of the story or any of that. Which do you still prefer?

Yeah, I guess if no one was there, it's like that. If the tree falls in the woods.

Did it really fall?

If no one was there to witness the story and validate the fact that I was winning, then yes, I would definitely choose a medal so that I can show that I did. But when I think about it, though, I just don't put myself in those situations. I like when people watch. I like when people can see all the things I'm doing. I don't like to be alone in those types of situations.

So when you win, what is a bigger compliment to you? Like, oh my God, rt, you are so fucking strong, or, holy shit, rt, you're the fucking best.

The best. Best I've seen, you know, that kind of thing for sure.

Do you like being the best because it gives you prestige? Or do you like being the best because nobody can touch you and you're in this wall of protection?

I think the first. Just the way you phrase that, like the wall of protection. I don't want any walls, you know, I want. I want to be able to celebrate success with others. That's what makes it better.

When it comes to vulnerability, first of all, I just admire you this last few months that I've really gotten to know you and your level of willingness to get vulnerable. Not an easy thing for me either. That's why I respect the fuck out of it, especially from a man. When it comes to vulnerability, I know it's not your favorite thing, is it? Because it slows you down and people might perceive you as like, God, you don't really. You really aren't the best if you are vulnerable. Or are you not a fan of vulnerability because you can be betrayed or violated?

I think the first, you know, like people see me as weak or not the best. The fear of being. And I remember questions like that on different assessments. Like the fear of being betrayed. I don't spend a lot of time thinking about stuff like that. And I don't know if that's just like something I've worked myself through and I just forcefully don't think about it. But I definitely.

What about when you were younger? Because I know you're an only child as well. We've talked about that. And you are in your own kind of. I'm dating somebody that's an only child as well. And it is a totally. And my best friend is an only child. It's a very different kind of way you show up in the world. Like you had to kind of create stories and environments and create and just whatever. What do you think it is about that that comes into play?

Well, I think that gets into the nature versus nurture kind of thing. In some ways I'm jealous of other people that have and had siblings. And that's one of the biggest reasons that when we did. When Lindsay and I decided to have kids, it's like we didn't decide to have our first. That was a surprise. Sawyer. Sawyer was a surprise to us. But Wesley was planned because we talked about it. And I had a great experience as an only child, I think. But that's hard to create. And I think my parents did a great job. But I. In some ways, yeah, I've been Jealous of other people who have like a sibling, especially as adults, you know, someone who just like loves and trusts you for no other reason than they're your brother or sister. And I don't have that. And so, so I, I relate to that. But yeah, I think being an only child, I, I did have to learn how to be more independent and maybe that didn't impact my, like, I don't have a huge fear of being betrayed or I don't worry about those things because when I made friends, most of my friends were like long term friendships and like deeper friendships. I've always been the type of person that has like just a handful of really close friends. I don't have a lot of friends, if that makes sense.

Yeah. When you've had friendships go south, let's say, or they've run their course or whatever. If I was to ask them why it didn't run its course and at least like their, their chief complaint of the relationship. Right. Do you think they would tell me that like, you just, you move too fast for them and you couldn't keep up or like you were too good for them or you were not vulnerable enough and it was hard to get to know you? Which, which do you think they would tell me?

I think if you interviewed a sub selection of my previous longer term friends, they would say something to the effect of like, he chose work instead of me. I've lost a lot of my longer term friends because I've just become focused on other things, mostly work or new and different relationships. So when I started dating, I just went all in on my first girlfriend, you know, in high school. And basically all my friends at the time were just like, okay, so I guess RT is not coming to this party or this event. He's just hanging out with Danny. That was my thing. Same thing happened in college. You know, I fell in love with, with, with Kate at that time and we had a five year relationship. She actually moved out to Colorado from Penn State with me and that was great. But when I started dating her, I stopped hanging out with my friends as much. Um, same thing.

Would you have stopped working for a girl?

Absolutely not.

I didn't think so.

I didn't think so.

That was an easy one for me to answer. Yeah, and that's. And well, and the real answer is like the, you know, the next long term relationship that I had was and is Lindsay. And she would never ask me to stop working for her. She would never ask me to choose between business and her because she knows that's a Rock and a hard place decision for me. That's why we work well together in that way, because she's a lot like me. She was originally typed exactly the same as I thought or still think I am. Three wing too. That's what she believes she is as well. She also chooses work over a lot of other things.

So I know when I met you last year, you guys were kind of hitting a rough patch and we don't have to go into all the details, but what do you think was the breakdown in where you two were at and what was your part in it, would you say?

So one of the biggest mistakes that we made was we got too involved in each other's businesses. We both have several businesses and I got heavily involved in a couple of hers because her businesses were impacted by the pandemic in a much greater way than mine were. Like, pretty much everything she did was in person at that point. Yoga studio, in person, masterminds, things like that. We were actually right before the pandemic, she and I were about to invest like six figures into a co working space. Thank God.

Yeah, no shit.

That might have been the straw that broke the camel's back, I think. And I think she would agree. So that's one of the biggest mistakes that we made is we got really involved in each other's businesses and then there's no separation and there's absolutely zero work life balance. At that point, all of our conversations became about business, not about our relationship and the kids and the house and all that stuff. Like, we didn't have healthy conversations around money because it was like awkward because we both knew that we were both spending a lot of money on business related things. And neither of us had savings, neither of us had investments for the kids. Neither of us were trying to figure out and make sure that we were paying rent. Um, and so getting involved in each other's businesses was, I think, a big mistake. And then lack of communication about this kind of stuff and the vulnerable stuff. We didn't save space or allow space or make it okay to. To talk about some of the hard stuff.

Well, if you have two threes going at it, competing to be the best, neither one of you are really going to show a vulnerability in there, especially when it's intense and like crisis is happening. Yeah.

And we both wanted to win for each other, you know, Like, I wanted my businesses to be successful so that I could show her that I could provide for her. And she wanted her businesses to be successful, you know, so that she could show me that I didn't need to provide for her. And so we were just clashing on that stuff all the time. And I think the root of a lot of that stuff is communications. Like, we just didn't talk about. We didn't have this conversation. We didn't have any of those conversations. And it's gotten exponentially better since. And we're very happy. And you know, I think we're, we're being much better. Better parents, better individuals, and better humans. And I think a lot of that came from, I mean, a lot of like couples counseling, individual therapy and, and conversations and even simple things. Like just every Friday night we do a date night where it's just us and we just talk like everything's on the table. We talk about whatever we need to talk about, even if it's hard. And it took a long time to get there, especially for me, because I definitely don't like to admit when I'm wrong. I don't like to admit when I'm failing. I don't like to admit if I'm running out of money. All that stuff is still fresh for me, to be honest.

Yeah. Let's talk about mom and dad real quick. Being an only child, what was your relationship like? Were they married before your mom died? Is your dad still alive?

Yeah, my dad's still alive. He's remarried. So my parents had me when they basically had given up on having kids. They tried for a while. They both were in marketing and advertising. They both worked for Leo Burnett in Chicago, which is just world famous advertising company and very career oriented, doing similar things. My dad told me at one point that they had all but given up on, on having children. And then she got pregnant. They moved back to Pennsylvania to my, my mom's grandparents, Christmas tree farm. And that's where they built the house. The house was done like two days after I was born. We moved into that house together. And that's where I spent, you know, the majority of my life. And yeah, my parents got divorced when I was 16.

And they told me it was because they fell out of love is the way they described it. They've been together for, I don't know exactly how long, but they had their 20. I remember their 25th anniversary party. You know, it was, it was a significant relationship for both of them. And getting divorced when I was about 16 was, was traumatic in some ways, but in others, like, I just, I just kind of like internalized a lot of it and just poured into my girlfriend at the time. And she was really the only one I talked to about that kind of stuff. I think they handled the divorce really well and they were still friends after that. My dad helped with the Christmas tree business. My mom stayed there. My dad moved away, My dad got remarried. My mom, I think, was dating a little bit, but. But not as much in trying to navigate new life before she passed away.

And.

How did you feel loved by your dad? Like, what was like, yeah, dad loves me. Like when you were a kid, it.

Was mostly the, like, verbal acknowledgement of things I had done. He involved me in the Christmas tree business. He involved me in a lot of his work conversations. And so I think for my dad, it was like quality time. Like just. He was very busy. He ran, you know, he was like CEO of this big company in Philadelphia and drove, you know, 90 minutes each way, plus was, you know, mowing the grass on the Christmas tree farm nights and weekends. Like, he was always working. And so when I got time with him, I felt a lot of love. And that's. He's the one who taught me how to play golf. And so that was like the quality time that we had. And I think him recognizing my effort in either a business thing or a sports related thing or a project I was working on, that's really how I felt it from him for sure.

What about mom? What made you feel like, yeah, Mom's got my back and she like, adores me.

She was more physical touch, like hugs, nurturing. Very much so. And she, she was a talker. She was, you know, the memes about people who, like, they're like, my mom should start a podcast because that's basically my voicemail. It's like a five minute voicemail.

That was my mom. She would leave me like five minute voicemails.

I love it.

And she would, she would just kind of like talk at me to the point where I would like, actually shut down. And like, later in my life, you know, I just, I realized I was, I was shutting down when she was talking because it was just, it was just a lot. And however, like, thinking about that, like, that's how, that's how she showed love is trying to like, over communicate and share and purposely say, like, I love you and I love spending time with you. And this day was fun, you know, thanks for coming with her on. Like, she was always the one that, like, took me to school, took me to daycare. You know, we rode horses, as when I was a kid. And so she would take me to the horse barn and all of those were longer drives because we lived fairly outside of cities. And so a lot of, like, time talking in the car, which was 80% her, 20% me.

Right. Do you think that looking back, like, her talking and doing most of the talking and it being a lot. Right. And, you know, I have. My dad's been gone 10 years, and, you know, some of the things that annoyed the shit out of me about him were some of the biggest lessons I've learned since he's gone. Right. And so looking back at your mom, when she would be a lot talking and all for the right reasons, but, like, in your mind, do you feel like, gosh, just. Bottom line me, I got things to do or got places to go, like, because you want to go, go, go, and that talking slows things down. Is there a part of you that I know that you. Same here. Like, when they leave us, it's like we think back of, like, God, I should have just sat and listened to her longer. I shouldn't have been so annoyed. Or do you have moments like that all the time? Yeah, I thought so.

Because that's. She was. She was trying. You know, she was trying to.

Yeah.

She was using words to try to figure out how to get me to use words.

Right.

And. And when I acknowledged her more than a mm or a yes or whatever, she'd light up. Then she knew she got me. Yeah. And she's like, oh, he's actually interested in that. That particular thing that I said. You know, she was. I was talking to my therapist at one point about how I feel like, she almost used, like, the shotgun approach of trying to relate with people. It's just like, let me put it all out there. And to me, most times, it came off as anxiety. Like, it was. It was her anxiety that she was. She was sharing, and. And I internalized it exactly like that. And so for that reason.

Yeah, you want to know part?

I wanted to leave. Yeah. I just wanted to leave the conversation. And. And I do think a lot about how I should have. Like, the. Basically, the reason she left me long voicemails is because I never called.

Yeah.

To talk. I didn't give her the time and the space to catch me up on what was happening at home on the farm. And so she was forced to leave me long voicemails, and I listened to them, and I responded in some ways, but usually just text. The other thing that I learned through losing her and thinking about that kind of stuff is I struggle at maintaining relationships that are virtual. Like, you here right now, it feels like we're in the same room, and I'M fully present and we're having a great conversation. But as soon as we hang up this call, I'm not going to think about you until, until you text me or for some reason, like we're on a group thread or yeah, I see your name in a group thread or I see you on Instagram. You just leave anyone. It's the same. It's not about you. It's the same with my parents, you know, it's, I struggle with that still with my dad. Like I feel all the time I'm just like, I should, I should reach out to my dad. I should, you know, and I make a point of doing it now. I really try, but it's hard for me. I try just inherently, I don't know why, but I end up spending more time and energy and focus and thought on the, on the people and things right in front of me. Does that make sense?

Yeah, completely. And, and I will tell you this, like, my dad, you know, his fears were projected in a way that were like lessons and they were very intense. And you know, he's been gone 10 years and I have a lot of regrets. Like there were times I didn't reach out. Like it was a lot. I didn't need a lecture, I didn't need a friggin lesson. And in his passing, it's not like I'm like regretful, but it's like, damn it, like. But I will tell you this, and I see it in you today as a friend and as a father and as a business partner, that even though your mom's gone, you're taking the lessons and not the anxiety part because that was her anxiety. But you took the beautiful parts of her communication. I've taken the beautiful parts of my dad's lessons and I am paying them forward through my children and through the people that I lead and love. And so are you. So she's with you. There's no regrets to be had. She like, she's like, hell yeah. He's communicating like she's like here right now going, fuck yeah. He's talking about feelings. So I want you to know that, like, seriously.

Thank you. Yeah. And, and same with, with your dad, you know, they're, they're listening to this.

Conversation and my dad never saw what I've done. He never saw anything.

But he sees it now, right? Like I, I, I like, I like to think about that stuff and I like to think that, well, you know what? I know she is and would be proud of me. Just like I know that my dad Is proud of me because he is still here and gets to say it. And he says it a lot.

She's been gone about a year and.

A half, two years.

What I also know to be true is the relationship I have with my dad today. Ten years after his earthly passing has gotten stronger. Because I now have a bigger appreciation and understanding because it's now run through the heavenly filter rather than the intense in person filter. And you pick up on energy like I do. My dad's was coming from a place of fear, but intensity. Your mom's was coming from a place of fear and anxiety. And now with the heaven, you know, the heavens above, we get it through a different kind of lens. And you will have a strengthened relationship with her for sure. You will pay those lessons forward through your boys and with Lyns. It's awesome. You are a three, for sure. I mean, you're right there. You're right there because you like the war stories, you like the power, which is very eight. But it is all rooted in prestige, though. So within the threes, there are three different threes, right? There's the self preservation kind of three, which you are not. There's the one on one three. The self preservation three is more about like satisfaction and safety. The one on one is like interpersonal relationships. And then the social three, which is where you fall, is about prestige. The social three wants influence above anything else. And that's why a social three can look very eight. Like, because I like influence, but I like it because of the strength, not the, hey, I'm the fucking best. That's the difference between the eight and the three. And you can skillfully read and adjust to situations and the social norms and requirements of certain things. That's how you also look like an 8. Because it's very strategic. It's like you'll sit back for a little bit, but then you'll like hit the gas and you'll blow by people and they'll be like, what the hell just happened? Right?

Yep.

Highly competitive. You enjoy being in the spotlight and confidently market your ideas and accomplishments. Looking good and successful is very important. And sometimes you can cut corners or cover up failure, which I think is a beautiful kind of bow on like when we were talking about you and the breakdown with Lynn's for a little bit, like, you both were kind of trying to do that and it ended up blowing it up for a short period of time. But as a three, like, you know this as well as I do, like, having the right tool for the job makes things go A lot more easy, more efficient, more effective. And because you and I both run at Mach 10, we don't always want to use the other tools. Like, I know this tool. I'll make it work. Fuck it, like, let's go. But we leave a lot of wreckage in our path and people get hurt when we do that. And so the gift of being a three is, although, like, that's always going to be your go to, you could do it in your sleep. You do have the 2 Wing, which we talked about. Right? Like, that's your compassion and empathy and people and relation and connection. You got to be careful though, as a three, because you can lean into that in a not healthy way and use people as pawns if you're not careful. And people can feel like, oh, I was just a piece of his puzzle to move ahead. Which I'm sure that's part of breakdown in old friendships. Now the other side of you say.

About the friendships is if you interviewed them and asked that I. Some of them for sure would, would say that because I was just a.

Rung on your ladder. I was a rung on your ladder to get to the next person or network.

Yeah. I have absolutely manipulated and found ways to get what I needed out of relationships and things and situations.

Yeah, that's where of course. And like taking your inventory. Because I can be a manipulative fuck too. Like seriously, like for my own reasons. But where I see threes, like, once they understand the power of relationship and connection, not just winning and they can marry the two, it's a slippery slope. So you gotta like always be taking your inventories. Like, what's my motive here? Do I really, like, want connection with them? Or if they have nothing to offer me as far as moving forward to be the best, would I still have a relationship with them? And that's, that's a hard one to swallow sometimes, right? Like knowing like, oh, I'm using them. Right. So the beauty in this is like, I don't want you to just go to the 2 Wing, although you dominate probably more that way because you've found it to be proven to be successful in having people in relationships. On the other side of you is the four wing. And the goal is to be able to use both wings, not just lean heavy one way, but to use that four wing. And a lot of times I'll be like, the three is just like, let's fucking go. I don't care. I'll figure it out. Like, I don't want to slow down to like be strategic. Anything like that. Right. And you've proven to be successful that way. Now you've learned how to use relationships. But before you do that, I really encourage threes to lean over to their four wing, which is the intuitive part of you, the emotional part of you, the creative, the authentic. Like, the four is all about, like, is this really unique and special for me because they don't care about measurements and who sees it. They want to be. They want to find that internal significance. And so when a three can really lean in and like, have the four be the last final, like gatekeeper to what you decide to move forward with, you're going to recognize there are a lot of things that you probably wouldn't even compete in, even though you could win it and crush it and have all the attaboys. But if you really lean into like that inner knowing and like, why am I doing this? Do I really want to do this? And if you actually listen, you probably would get a lot more no's than the fuck yeses you've been convincing yourself you need to do.

Which I think is probably what happened when you hit your breaking point between you and Lynn's. And you know, you've got boys at stake now and businesses and it's. And the pandemic was probably a gift for you into realizing this. I know it didn't feel like it, but it had. It forced the slowdown.

Yeah. Well, and it and it and that situation and the other situations I've put myself in have caused me to do a lot more reflection on those things and, and try to decide, like, is this really what I want?

That's your four wing right there. That is all four wing. And I encourage you to keep leaning there before you say yes to anything. Even if you know you'd win and kill it. Really lean heavy is like, what is my motive here? Am I doing this because I know I'd kill it and be the best? Or is this really what my. The nature versus nurture colliding into this perfect storm? Like, yeah, you're wired to be able to crush anything. But is this really, like, if you were on your deathbed tomorrow, would your boys remember that daddy worked really hard or that he spent time with us? Because there's a harmony in all of it. Right? The other thing with being a three is you have like, growth and stress numbers. And you know, the thing with the three and their stress number, which is the nine, which is the adaptive peacemaker, which is like, you're like, really like, not so much. But what happens When a three kind of hits their breaking point and all the winning and they look around and nobody's there, and it's, like, empty when they win. Like, you get burnt out and tired and you pretty much are just like, horizontal on the couch watching Netflix, which is so outside the norm. The thing with a 3 is most people would never know it. Lindsay is probably the only person that would ever see that out of you. Because that prestige, that image is so important for you to be seen as the best, the hardest worker in the room. Like, let's fucking go that. A lot of times for threes, they're the hardest to pull out of it because you won't let us see it.

Yeah, nail on the head for that too. You know, there's definitely a couple people in my life that have seen me like that, but only because I've tried to be a lot more vulnerable and ask for help more in the past few years.

But, yeah, it'll actually make you stronger. But I have a hard time with it too. I go to a similar place, but it's very, like, evasive. It's scary because I don't let people see it either. But people can feel the absence, and I know they can with you. And you'll usually like, ah, I'm doing other things. Or like, you'll come up with an excuse of why it's happening because you won't let people know that you've burnt yourself out.

Yeah.

The other thing is, is your growth number, which is usually our biggest stretch. And for the three, it is the Enneagram six, which is the loyalist. Right. They're the master strategists, the master troubleshooters. So they ask a lot of fricking questions before they do anything. And for a three, you're like, no, I just want to go. I'll figure it out. I'll make it happen. But as you know, like, you've burnt out relationships, you've burnt out your body, you've burned through money. When had you slowed down a little bit even to just, like, have a plan or strategy or think of worst case scenario, which is, you know, for a six, they don't ever want to be blindsided by anything. So they are constantly, like, have six different plans in case, you know, this happens or this happens. You and I don't operate that way. We're just instinct and assertiveness and go.

Barely have plan A figured out.

Seriously, I seriously have no fucking plan for most things that I do. And having a six best friend has kept my ass in check. Sometimes. And if you learn how to lean into that, knowing it's just for a small period of time, and it'll actually slow you down, but to. To speed you up later and actually make you more sustainable in what you choose to do. And I know you're here for the long game. The older you get, the more we don't play the short game. We're here for the long game. You learning how to lean into that will actually have you being in the long game, not just as a business owner, but as a partner and as a father. And the more that you can lean in there, it's gonna be very uncomfortable for you. Cause especially when, you know, all I have to do is hit the gas and fucking kill it. But at what cost?

Well, you're 100% right, because that's. You know, before we hit record, we were talking about. My current journey is like a gratitude journal. And I've bought. I think I own six, maybe seven different gratitude journals, and I've gotten to page two on one of them.

I get it.

And it's for that reason, like, I know I need to spend more time thinking and strategizing and planning and celebrating the success of yesterday and last month and last year and stuff like that, but it's really hard. It's hard for me to justify the time to do it. I'm very busy. There's a lot of stuff going on, so I always have a million excuses. But I'm lucky enough that I have almost entirely full control over my schedule, to the point where if I just wanted to take a day off and read a book, like, I could totally do that. I would just have to force myself to do it, which is the. The thing I've been struggling with is, like, making the time to go slower and to. And to think and to it with my feelings and journal and. And stuff.

When that inner belief is that, like, your worth is tied to what you do achieve or how you appear in the world, like, that's a very strong thing to break. But what keeps me in check? Cause I. I mean, I love to be powerful and strong and. And flex and all that. And I think about my kids. Do I want them to believe that that's how they are worthy in the world? And that's a big no. And so we can talk a good game to our children all day long, but they will do what we teach or model for them. And so that has allowed me to really slow my role a little bit and be kind of present for the miracles. I know we Talked about that in our mastermind, like making room for the miracles and me freeing up my schedule, even though I don't like it and it feels very vulnerable to have a free schedule. The beauty that happens in those moments as a parent especially, are priceless. So I'm going to encourage you to keep doing that. What do you feel about being a three? I know you wanted to be like the competitive achiever. You're the poster child for it for sure.

I mean, honestly, it's one of the only ones I know a lot about because I was, you know, I took a test previously and was. Was typed as a. As a three. And then I know a fair amount about twos because I was told I was a three wing two. And I wanted to research, like, what does that mean? And through that I've learned that I work really well with twos and some of the closest people to me are twos. And that that was an interesting realization in multiple ways. One, because like, now I know, like, okay, if I, if I want to find my next, next assistant or my next right hand human, I should probably try to find a two, because I just know that that works.

But I'd say you need a six. You need somebody to slow you down a little bit.

Yeah, it's, it's. It's interesting. I, I don't know much about six. What you said about sixes makes me want to research that. Same with four and the, the go.

And you know, that's what I do recommend is the wing. Like really you already know how to be and use the gift of the two for you specifically, because you need a gatekeeper that four. Like learn all the beautiful gifts of the four. You. I'm seeing it a lot in you this last year for sure. In the last few months that I've gotten to know you a little bit better. Like, keep learning the beautiful gifts of that you'll never be motivated like a four. But knowing how to use that tool and when and how to use it most effectively for like overall harmony. Not just success on paper, but overall harmony. And then like the stretch because my growth number is two. Like compassion and empathy does not come natural to me, not even a little bit. But, you know, really having a target to hit and having a two. Sun has really shown me what beauty can come if I do lean there and practice getting there. And now I can hang out there for a while before my walls come back up. But for you, looking at the six, they'll drive you crazy because they slow shit down. But for the Right. Reasons. And when you learn how to use that. And your friendships will be stronger, too. Your relationship with lens. I know you guys have done a lot of work and continue to. It'll be better the more that you can lean into that six, but it will be uncomfortable because it slows shit down. They talk a lot. Your mom might have been a six, quite honestly.

Yeah. Yeah.

Maybe they got lots of talking. Lots of talking.

Yeah. I mean, thank you for opening my eyes to the reason that I should do the research on the other numbers.

Yeah, you don't need to learn about threes anymore. You don't. You already know that one.

Well, like we joked about the other day, it was like, you know, when you did that reel about the types of the airport. I don't know enough about the other types. And so once I got to three, I don't care. I laughed at that. I was just like, I don't even know what a 4 is, so I might as well just not even watch the rest of this reel. But now I feel like I have a new and different reason to be inquisitive and learn about that kind of stuff.

And chances are your boys. The chances are your boys are something different than you. And learning what motivates. Like, I have two children that are different than me, like, completely different from me, and they are why I studied this 10 years ago, because I was like, oh, shit. Like, I'm only communicating in a language, and no wonder. It's not landing and they're not receiving what's actually in my heart, and it's actually creating fear, anxiety, shame in them. That was the last thing I wanted. So, yeah, pay attention to the other ones. We're pretty cool, too.

Yeah, well. And, you know, you made that point of, like, it's all a tool that is massively valuable. It's just like. I mean, we talked about the disc test, and doing that test with our whole team on the agency side was fascinating because I was like, oh, yeah. I. You know, I'm like a. An id. I was like, yeah, okay. Those other people that are eyes, we get along really well. And, you know, Jim is a C. And I'm like, okay, that's why we butt heads on a bunch of stuff, because I just plow right through that energy, that analytical thinking about everything, all that stuff. But it's also a great reason why we make a good business partnership, because if you have a core team, like a leadership team or a business partnership, you're both the same. Then things like what happened with me and Lindsey, they are much more likely to happen because you plow right through those conversations that really need to be had.

Absolutely. And I'll tell you this, too. Your ability to communicate with everyone, not just the ones that kind of think and operate like you. And the thing with the discs and everything, they're amazing, but they're more behavior focused where, like, the enneagram is, like, motive. But what I found is the more that I could elegantly communicate with anyone, not just like, the more assertive types like me and you and Chris and like, the let's fucking go people, the more I could slow down and drop into, like, the softer parts of me. I could more effectively lead everyone. And I made a hell of a lot more money. You're leaving a lot of money on the table by not being able to communicate with everyone.

And we were talking about that before we hit record.

You can make good money in that egotistical three. Yeah, we should probably rebrand threes. It's just let's fucking go people. Because I like that a lot.

You are.

But you'll end up rich on an island that you own, but no one else is there.

Or the people that are there are the ones that benefit off of you and they don't really care about you.

Exactly. Yep, Yep. I didn't think about that.

And you like it because they stroke your ego. But it's not, like, soulful at all.

It's not true. It's not joy. It's not true happiness. It's all like, flash in the pan happiness and joy. And that's. I feel like that's a lesson in the nature nurture thing. Like, that's a nurture. Like, you got to just. You got to learn that through fire. Um, and you gotta get burned and you gotta have. You gotta have people close to you tell you that you're an asshole and that you need to take a step back and think about that thing you just did or said or whatever.

Not easy for you or I to deal with, but. But it's important.

So, so hard. Some of the best and hardest conversations of my life are when I get called out in that way.

Yeah, same.

But like, they're. They're good in that way of. Of realizing, like, wow, okay, I need to listen more. I need to take a step back and look at the high level of, like, if I. If. If my goals are as lofty as they are, I can't do any of this myself. Like, that's. That's really the big thing I've been working on. Is like, I have big teams now. That should bring me joy. I should be grateful for all these people that are, as you and I are, shooting the shit, bunch of work is happening.

Right?

That's fantastic on paper. Right? But it doesn't necessarily bring me direct joy or happiness because I don't. I don't see the work getting done, and I'm not doing it myself. So that's. That's. I think my. My current journey, navigating all this kind of stuff is like, what? And I think that's why, you know, we. We're. We're both doing this challenge of, like, how many reels can we make? You know, And I'm. I'm. I'm just trying to make it easy and like, all right, let's do one reel a day for and see what. See how it goes. Like, that's the first thing that I've had, like, full and direct control over in a long time. And I know if it's working right away, I get instant feedback from people that comment or DME or something like that. That kind of feeling doesn't happen to me as much anymore because I'm blessed. And I have business partners in all my businesses and teams that work for them. Most of the humans that work for me don't actually report to me. I don't. Almost all of. Almost none of them do, which, again, I feel like I should feel really grateful for. And that's why I got the gratitude journals to try to have that feeling.

Well, you're not getting that external validation as much from the people because they don't need you or, you know, what this is doing is freeing you up to find the fuck yeses for you. And this is where the four wing will really help you. That's why you're probably enjoying making the reels, because it's like, oh, well, this is fun. This is. Even though you are getting immediate feedback, there's that creative energy and just being silly, that. Lean into more of that and you're gonna notice the right people will start showing up for you. Not just to increase the bottom line or the atta boys or the success, but really people that give a fuck about you. Rt. Not because of the watches, not because of the marketing agency, and not because of the mastermind that you run, but because you're a fucking awesome person, period. End of story.

Thank you, Tracy. And same to you. And it's already happening. And that's what's really cool, is, like, in just doing a real a day for. I don't know, 10 days I'm showing up, I'm using Instagram as a social platform, not just a media platform.

And it looks great on you, by the way.

Thank you.

It does.

It's awesome. But what I was going to say is I have several DM threads now with people that I haven't talked to in years, one of which is applying to a job opening that we have that I wouldn't have even thought of this individual to maybe apply, but she reached out and she was like, hey, she just saw one of my stories and she was engaging with a couple of the reels. I posted an old friend that sold his business a few months ago and has been like, he's a badass, probably not even 30, and was kind of half retired for the last three months since he sold his business, had a big exit. He reached out and basically just asked to grab coffee and catch up. And that stuff didn't and wouldn't happen in the previous version of me. Or have I not been using Instagram for really its true purpose, which is the social aspect.

Yeah, I love it. So that doing it.

That's cool.

It is cool. And I know it's awkward and uncomfortable in this, like, season that you're in, but this is really. And I'm having a season myself where, like, there's this mass exodus in my life. Like, I'm like, wow, the divine God is like making room for some abundance to roll in, whether it's relationships or money or both or all of it. And it's very uncomfortable. And I'm here for it. And I know you are too. So where can people find and follow you and all your fun reels? Because they're awesome. I love them. Where can they find you to learn about the marketing agency? You know, we didn't even get into the mastermind, but you guys, like, we met in a mastermind and this relationship to me is priceless. Him and his partner have a mastermind that's powerful. I think you just closed. Did you just close this session?

We close this round, but it's every six months.

Yeah, you guys want to get part. You want a part of that? So where can they find you and.

Follow all the things probably easiest is RT like Robert Thomas Custer. RT Custer on Instagram and. And. Or LinkedIn. I'm going to try to post the same content on both those platforms. But yeah, send me a DM on one of those platforms. We'll connect. And if you want to talk watches, we'll talk watches. You want to talk advertising agency Fun stuff. We can do that. Or you want to ask about masterminds? I feel like taking the torch from Chris and Lori and building fast foundations. It's just a way we can serve a lot of people in the sense that if, if fast foundations mastermind or the elite mastermind that you and I are in or one of these other masterminds isn't right for the particular individual that reaches out. Like I'm such a firm believer in just the entire concept of a mastermind, for sure that I've had great conversations with people. It's like, hey, this isn't necessarily right for you, but like, we gotta get you an a room somewhere. So I talked to Jim a lot about like, could we create almost like a landing page or an informational resource of like all the masterminds that exist?

Well, shoot. Part of your agency could be like a feeder for some of these other masterminds that you vetted. You know, I love it, love it.

It's one of the things I just believe in so much because like you said, it's. It's changed my life, all the masterminds I've been in.

Yeah, well, I appreciate you, friend. You just blessed the socks off me. And I know the people that listen and that are listening right now, this was something they needed to hear. I just love you and I appreciate you and I can't wait to see where this journey takes us from here and beyond. I appreciate you so much.

I appreciate you, Traci, and I appreciate the time and the space that you've given me. Thank you so much.

Always. You guys, we would love to hear what you think about this episode. I know you love hearing from the men out here. You know, tag us on Instagram. Me, you know where to find me and T. Custer on Instagram. We would love to know what you got from this episode. Until next time, you guys, here's to becoming the ultimate leader in your life.

I'm so happy you enjoyed the Leadership Formula podcast. Please help us spread the word about this show by sharing it with a friend friend and leaving a written Apple podcast review. If you have any follow up questions to this episode, you can DM me directly on Instagram at traceeomalley. You can also find additional resources on my website@tracyomalley.com I'm excited to lead you into the next level of your life.