EP239: Live Enneagram Typing Session - How Saying No More Often Will Change Your Life with Corrine Conroy (Enneagram SP 2)

Welcome to the Leadership Formula podcast, where you will learn the secret sauce behind achieving massive success. I'm your host, Tracy o', Malley, multimillion dollar entrepreneur, your Enneagram expert, master performance coach, and mom to millennials. Do you want deep, meaningful relationships to wake up every day with purpose and make money doing something you love? Well, you've landed in the right place. Every week, I will teach you how to get exactly what you want in life by strengthening your emotional intelligence. Using a combination of the Enneagram framework, live life coaching sessions, and real talk from yours truly. It's time to transform yourself into the ultimate leader of your life. Let's do this thing.

Hello, and welcome back to another episode of the Leadership Formula podcast. And today is one of your favorite kind of episodes where we reveal somebody's Enneagram type. And I met this beautiful, beautiful woman at a wedding. Gosh, was that like two weeks ago now? Yeah, I think so. And we were sitting next to each other at dinner and just had a great conversation. And I just fell in love with her. And of course, when we get in a roundtable situation, the Enneagram always comes up. And she was telling me she thinks she's a two. And I gotta tell you, at first, you know, I've gotten pretty good at this in 10 years. Like, I can feel different kinds of energy within Enneagram types, and I'm pretty spot on. Or I've got it narrowed down to, like, two. And when she told me she was a two, I was like, okay, let's see, let's see. And I started asking her questions because my initial kind of energy, kind of barometer was telling me six. It was telling me kind of six. Because she's not your typical two. You know, all the memes, the stereotypes where, you know, they're the master relationship and connectors on the Enneagram. And she is. But she is a little more reserved than, like, your typical stereotype of A2. But as we got to talk and the more that she opened up, I was like, okay, I can see this now. And when I was asking her questions, she was like, oh, my God, did you read my mind? We met each other, like, five minutes ago. So my beautiful friend, Corinne Angelica. I love that my daughter uses her first and middle name as well. Is that your middle name? Yes. Yeah. She is a holistic nutritionist, former teacher, and we believe she's an enneagram 2 and a self preservation 2. And so this made a lot of sense when I was talking with her, because The Self Preservation 2 is the counter type within the twos of, you know, the self preservation, the one on one, and the social twos. So for those of you kind of new to the Enneagram, this is next level, this understanding of the instinctual variance, otherwise known as the subtype. And within the two family, the self preservation is the counter type, which means this one does not look like your typical stereotype, and they're often mistyped as a seven or a six. So hallelujah, your girl still knows what she's doing.

Makes perfect sense.

Yes. And I love it. Like, that's why. That is a perfect example why 65 to 70% of the time these online assessments are inaccurate because they don't take a lot of these instincts that come from life into consideration when we're doing these things. But obviously, as I was talking to her and asking those more deeper questions at dinner, I was like, yeah, she's a two.

So.

Hi, honey. How are you? Hi.

I'm so good. I'm so glad to be here. I can't wait to dive in and chat with you. I'm just like, been obsessed with you since I met you, so I'm super excited.

And you guys. We recorded an episode on her podcast this week. Her podcast is called Mind you'd Hormones. And we talk about how the Enneagram can really help you regulate your nervous system and keep your hormones in check. You know, it isn't just what you put in your body. It's kind of like how you navigate your feelings and your emotions. And, you know, the Enneagram really has helped me do that. So when I met you, you knew about the Enneagram. How much did you learn about it and where did you find out about the Enneagram?

That's a good question. I don't remember where I found out. I may have found out about it through Keisha, actually through the friend's wedding we were at. I think that is how I found out about it. And then it was probably like, I think in 2020 is when I took, you know, the online quiz and I did that. I think I bought a book on it. But I never. I just read like two section and then that was really it. Like, I never actually, like, dived too much into it. But the two always kind of felt like, yeah, like, this makes sense. This is what it is. But I didn't really fully dive into it. And I probably going to learn a lot more about it right now and when you were on my podcast. But yeah, that's kind of when I found out about it. And I just felt like it resonated very well and I found out my partner's enneagram and then, you know, dove into a little bit of the other numbers just to be kind of aware. But that was really my extent of it.

And what was the. Like, a lot of times I was doing a call with a group yesterday, and one of the girls said she was very triggered when I was kind of talking about her type. She was a three, which is one of your wings. And we'll get into. And, you know, that's how we usually know we landed on the right one. If we're like doing like backflips and we're like, yay, I'm a this, then it probably isn't what it is because when we land on our enneagram type, it's like, oh, yeah, we see the darker side of us. What was the first thing when you were reading about the two or learning about the two? That was like, ugh, I don't want to be a two.

Yeah, the like, need for approval type of situation. And just like feeling like nobody understands me or appreciates me for all the things I do, like they'll go unnoticed, like that kind of stuff. And it was like 100% true when I was reading it, but also a little triggering at the same time. And just the like, over giving of just, you know, and having a hard time receiving.

Yeah, that over giving aspect. You know, twos know this, but they're like, yeah, but that's just who I am. And. And they wear that as a badge of honor until they're resentful. Right. And yes, the one adjective that gets thrown around, you know, when we're talking about the depths of the two is the word manipulative. And I did a typing session with a guy who is a two as well. He was amazing. And he was like, that one didn't sit well with me. He goes. But he goes. Usually when it doesn't sit well because there's an element of truth to it. And that over giving a lot of twos, that's how they kind of turn into becoming a martyr or codependent, which we talked about. I think a little bit their worth is tied into what people believe about them and if they're loved and appreciated. But this manipulative factor, and it's so subconscious for all my twos, before you start throwing me hate and you declare you're not a two because you're not manipulative, I want you to know it's at a Very subconscious level. So. And I know that you're going to resonate with this because of the thing that I asked you at the wedding, that one question. The filter that you need to use is A2. The manipulation comes with, you know, if you know that you're motivated by a need and a desire to be loved and appreciated. A lot of times this giving is in order to get something right. Payoff, the payoff. The tit for tat, the like, the contingency plan. And so a lot of times. And this is what I said to you at the wedding. All right, let's put this in perspective. If nobody ever thanked you, appreciated it, acknowledged it, or reciprocated it, would you still say yes?

Question. It was like a gut punch. I was like, oh my gosh, I need to put that on my forehead and constantly remember that.

So you can see where, when we run it through that filter, this is where the aha moments like. And because the underlying emotion for twos is shame, this is not permission to pull out the shame stick and whip yourself and believe that, oh my God, I'm such a manipulative bitch or anything like that. Not the case. Like I said, this is a very subconscious thing because your superpower is the helper, the person that can kind of intuitively know what people need, even if they don't mention it. That is your gift.

Yeah.

Right. And it is your superpower. And that's not going to change. Where it becomes your kryptonite is when the come from is from this insecure place or that belief that that's the only reason you're worthy.

Yeah, yeah.

The good news is you don't have to change who you are. Right. The hard part is changing the come from. Right. Because you're always going to be a natural helper. I mean, the line of work you're in. I know.

Yeah, it does. It comes very naturally, which obviously makes sense. So that's why I kind of resonated with it very well. But then just learning more about it and where the motive is and how it could get into that, you know, manipulative side.

The other thing that I've had to tell Twos, a lot of times you're intuitively knowing how to help people and actually enables people to stay stuck in their shitty excuses.

So this is where discernment and your intuition, a lot of times you operate on instincts rather than intuition. And so instincts are a reaction to something where an intuition, when we use intuition, it's a divine knowing. Right. This internal knowing. And I'M sure you can see sometimes you may have interfered in somebody's growth by trying to be air quotes helpful.

Oh, all the time. My fiance would say I do that all the time.

And me too. Like as an 8, like, even though you and I are motivated differently, I love to flex and show how fucking strong I am. So, I mean, I will swoop in and be a superhero for anyone. And what that does is it not only keeps people stuck, but they can't build that confidence muscle and knowing that they can do things on their own either.

Right. So is it almost like waiting for someone to ask for the help instead of just giving it asked for?

Yeah. Like I've learned, like, if I ask permission or they ask me, they're going to get it.

Right. Right.

But I reserve a lot of like. And, and here's the thing with you and somebody like me is people that are familiar with who we are, they know we know.

Right, Right.

Because you're very intuitive and you do instinctively know what people need. I see through bullshit like nobody else. And yeah. Know that it's why they're sometimes uncomfortable with me. And in the past, and I'm sure you have been this way, you know, we're very free with our advice. Yeah. And our wisdom. Right. For different motives. But I say a lot less now. And because as a mom, as a leader, as a coach, as a friend, because some of our greatest lessons come when we fall flat on our face.

Right.

When we take the training wheels off the bike, we're going to fall. The first time, the first couple times we're going to fall. But if we just ride the bike with the training wheels, we miss the whole experience of the freedom that comes with riding a bike. So true. You as a two oftentime play the role of training wheels in people's lives and you limit their growth, so it doesn't mean you can't help them. But sometimes sitting back and listening and doing more listening and realizing that sometimes your need for helping them comes from your own needs, not necessarily the greatest good for them.

Oh, that's so real. And it gets. It's frustrating because I want to help and because I know how to help in certain situations. But if they're not ready to hear it, then it doesn't really go anywhere. Right. And then, then it gets just frustrating.

So that's how you keep other people stuck.

Right.

So this is where discernment comes in and checking yourself. Do I want to offer my opinion? Because I want them to like and appreciate me or if I am Somebody on the outside looking at them and know what they need to grow, but they're not receptive to it. They just want a safety net all the time. And maybe I just need to sit back and listen and not say anything. Yeah, that's. That's a very powerful move. And I will tell you, and this is something I have to warn you as a 2. When you don't give people their, their drug, which is sometimes enabling.

They'Re going to move on to other people.

Yeah.

And they may get mad at you in four, two. That is like worst case scenario. I understand in your mind, but I want you to know if you truly are embodying the helper that you are, you have to be okay with that.

Right. Because it's what's best for them.

It is. And if it's not, then you're really helping for your own needs, not necessarily theirs. So all my twos listening right now. I know that's going to be really, really hard for you because, you know, you don't want to see them go on to somebody else because you're going to get fomo. You're like, oh, my God, yes, but I can help you. Come back, come back.

I could do it, I promise. Let me show you.

So that's how you kind of, if you're not careful, can keep other people stuck. Now how this keeps you stuck, Right. And we talk about this is back to that question. Like, wait a second. If I have to ask myself, if it was never appreciated, acknowledged, thanked or reciprocated, would I still do it? I'm sure if you kind of run through the Rolodex in your head, you see all the times you've said yes when you wanted to say no.

Oh, my God, majority of my life, I mean, I'm definitely better now just being more self aware and, you know, all of that. But it's still for sure something that I have to like, actively think about it. And it's hardest with family, I've realized, than with, you know, friends or even, like business commitments.

Yeah. So this is the hard part where boundaries come into play. Because if you kind of run it through that filter and one of those is, is no, then you should say no.

Yeah.

Or at least say, can I get back to you in 24 hours where you can really kind of chew on it. Now, it's going to take radical honesty with yourself. But the problem for twos is they over, yes, themselves from this internal drive of feeling worthy by what they do for being liked, appreciated, whatever. But the Problem is there's going to be stuff that comes up that you really want to say yes to, but you can't because you've overbooked yourself or you've over. Yes, yourself. And then what happens is you have resentment and then that's where that martyr, martyr kind of mentality comes in. It's like, well, if I didn't do it, nobody would do it.

Well, maybe nobody should do it then.

So real. Oh my God. I've. I've thought about that probably recently.

Yeah. And the reason that keeps happening to twos is there's no consequence. Like, yeah, if you don't do it, nobody will do it. And guess what? When nobody does it, there's going to be a consequence for somebody else. Right, Right. Maybe that consequence will be great enough that maybe they'll step the fuck up.

Yeah. But it feels like a responsibility. I have to be the one to do it because nobody will. And then they'll suffer and then they'll, you know, be mad at me about it.

Yeah, well, let them.

Yeah, I know, I know.

The main thing I always say to twos, that's not your job. Yeah. It's not your responsibility. It's not your responsibility. But I understand and I have compassion because that drive to be liked and appreciated is so strong that you justify you doing it because you feel it is your responsibility, but it's really to kind of fulfill this hole. Maybe that would be missing. So the good news is, is when you have boundaries and you say no more often, you can be a way better helper because you're not exhausted, you're not worrying that maybe you are over scheduled.

Yeah, that's a real feeling.

Yeah. You aren't present with somebody thinking about somebody else, which people feel that and then they're like, oh geez, you said you would help. Or you know, you kind of throw some passive aggressive comments and it breaks down the actual thing that you want, which is the relationship. Yes.

Wow, that's so good, Tracy. You're so amazing.

So, so as a self preservation type. So whether you're a two or any other type, the self preservation type, this is where nature and nurture collide. Right. So you are divinely wired to be a two. It's your, your calling, it is your superpowers, it is your gift. Right. And then we're dropped into family circumstances, situations, experiences. And this is where the instinctual kind of variants come into play. Now we can kind of move through the three instinctual types, you know, self preservation, the one on one and the Social one usually dominates. Right. And then there's one that's kind of secondary and then one that's more of our blind spot. And you know, the goal is to be able to harmoniously flow through all three. So as a self preservation type, when things happen, whether good or not great, you automatically think, okay, safety, security. And what's going to happen for me, to me, Right. Like, what are the consequences on me if something happens where the one on one is like, what's going to happen to us? Like the intimate people and then the social is what's going to happen to we, the collective.

Right.

So your natural thing is going to that self preservation. So safety, security, certainty is a big deal for you. So where in your life early on, like you grew up in Long Island? Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, I love it.

I love it. People can tell pretty much right away once I start talking.

Yeah, I love it. I'm obsessed with east coast host people. So where like mom and dad present?

Yes.

Growing up. Do you have siblings?

Yep. One older sister.

How much older?

Five years.

Okay. And what was the dynamic between you two?

We fought a lot. We're very different. Very, very different. Me and my sister, we. I guess, yeah, we were younger. I mean, I don't remember the early, early years, but I know that she got in trouble a lot because of me. And it was, you know, a whole, whole thing.

Why? Because of you. Why? Because.

Well, not because of me.

Right.

But when I came around, she. She started getting more in trouble because, you know, she would kind of just be mean to me and do that kind of stuff. And my parents always blame her kind of situation. But then as we got older, I would want to be around her and like hang out and try and be like with her friends. But I was always younger and she would never let me or she would make me like, do stuff for her to stay around or sit in the corner of her room. So we definitely fought a ton growing up. There were so many years between us. So we were at two totally different stages. But we're always close in the sense that we always like, kind of did stuff together. But I never really felt like I could confide in her because she would tell on me. So she was kind of like always like a second mom kind of a vibe and then similar. Like even, even now there are certain things I won't share with her because she, I think she's a six, by the way. She's like the worry wart, like bossy. Max. Yes. And like so worried anxious. So if, if I Tell her, like, we want to do something and it's gonna affect her or, like, take us away from the family, she will freak out. So anyway, we're close, but we just. We're very different.

So how did your parents deal with the dynamic? And how, like. Because usually that younger sibling kind of observes, like, how the older one does things and how the parents respond to it. So if you've got a worrier sister, how do mom and dad respond to. What's her name?

Renee.

How do they respond to Renee?

So I think the worrying actually started.

Later in her life.

It wasn't so much when she was younger, like, high school years. She was kind of more of, like, the partier or the going outer, like, kind of like that. So I observed her getting in trouble a ton, for sure. So I was kind of always, like, wanting to do what my parents want me to do because I don't want to get in trouble, because I saw her get in trouble. So the worrying really started later in life. Once, kind of when she had kids, it, like, got really, really bad. But they. What was the original question? How did they respond to her worrying?

Or how did they respond to whatever. Whatever mischievous she's getting into?

Oh, yeah, she definitely would get in trouble, like, for sure would. Would get in trouble, would ground her, whatever. And then they would kind of tell me about it and say how she was disappointed in it and would talk to me about it, and then I would. You know, I was always kind of like the mediator a little bit in the family. Whether my parents were fighting or they were fighting, I was always just kind of, like, watching and trying to be the one to cool it down. And then I would always feel like, well, they're already dealing with this stress with her, so I have to be sure that I'm, you know, doing everything right.

So how did you cool down the situation?

I probably didn't, but I thought I was. I would.

Perception is. Perception is everything in this.

So, yeah, that's true. I would just try and, like, have everyone kind of hear what the other person's saying, like, oh, but she's. She's saying this and kind of, like, helping. Help communicate. Yeah, help communicate between the two of them. Or just to say, like, stop. Stop. I would hate when people were yelling and fighting. Like, it just makes me so uncomfortable. So I would just try and get in the middle, like, literally physically in the middle of it to try and make it stop. Or I would cry, and then I would just go in my room kind of if it wouldn't work out.

So between the two of your parents, who's the feistier of the two?

That's a good question. Both.

I mean, New Yorkers. We got New Yorkers.

Yeah, exactly. From Brooklyn and Queens. So I love. Depends on the situation with us, I guess, more so. My mom would always kind of be more of the one, like, yelling at us. Because if my dad would yell at us, my mom would get mad that he would be yelling at us because we're both girls. I don't know if that has anything to do with it, but it depends. Like, bigger things he would kind of explode on. So they're both. Is really the answer.

So whose approval did you seek more, moms or dads?

What'd you think when you ask that?

Like, my instinct says dad. Yeah, I guess Dad. I would kind of think if I was thinking about it, I would think mom, but I guess dad.

Yeah. Was he more of a quiet approver? Like, he maybe wasn't as verbal as mom or.

Yeah, definitely not as verbal. You know, with a lot of stuff, too. Just like a girl, I guess, goes to their mom more so than a dad. But, yeah, I guess he would always tell me, like, you know, I'm so proud of you. Like, he was always at every dance recital. Like, always kind of very, you know, you know, involved and very supportive. But I guess just like in the intricacies of life, I was more my mom involved in that kind of stuff.

When you disappointed your parents, whose disappointment weighed heavier on you?

I think my dad's. I think my dad. This. There's a recent. When I left teaching when I was a teacher. So I was teacher for nine years on Long Island. I was in one of the best school districts on Long Island. Do you have benefits? You got a pension, you know, you're set for life. And my dad was always. He. He was a union worker. He was a carpenter. And then he moved into the kind of business side of it, and he was always like, you get a job, you have pension, you have benefits. Like, you stay there for life. So my biggest thing to move through when I was leaving teaching, where I was, like, up nightly crying, was telling my dad, because I knew he was. I knew he would support me because he supports me always. But I knew that this is not what he was going to be happy about, so. And he wasn't. And he, like, sat me down with a whole notebook paper of how much money I was going to be losing and all this stuff to try and, like, change my mind. Now, of course, you Know, he's very supportive, but yeah, I was very nervous about his thoughts on it. I knew my mom would also kind of feel the same, but I knew she would be more soft about it and just be like, well, you know, whatever makes you happy, it's okay even. But she at first was, you know, making sure that it was the right decision. But I was definitely was more nervous about my dad's.

It's a pretty bold move for two to completely. I mean, teaching is one of the most nurturing kind of professions to pick. I understand now, and especially with, you know, the pandemic and everything, you know, so much of your job isn't doing the actual helping the kids learn. It's administrative shit. So what made you leave teaching after nine years?

Yeah, I knew when I got into it that I wasn't going to be something I was going to stick with forever. I had no idea what it would be. I just kind of had that gut feeling that I just knew it wasn't going to be my long term thing. And the reason why I got into it was because I honestly didn't know what else to do. My sister was a teacher, all my friends were going to school for teaching. I didn't have anybody, you know, in my life that was an entrepreneur or doing kind of anything out of like lawyer, copy carpenter, teacher, that kind of situation. So I was doing it for a really long time. I was unhappy with it, probably like very unhappy with it for at least the last two years, if not more than that of my teaching career. And I left in August of 2020. And what made me finally leave was I like really found this passion for nutrition when I started experiencing a lot of my own health issues and nobody was giving me any real advice. I just kind of wanted to throw a medication on everything and I was never really interested in that. So when I went down the nutrition rabbit hole and saw my entire life changed, that's when I went back to school for it. And I just like had this gut, like, visceral feeling of like, this is what I need to do. And I was just so obsessed with it and helping women get pregnant and, and have a regular period. And just like I loved that helping where of course as a teacher you're helping, but it's very different. Like you said, you don't see those results in it.

It's.

I didn't like the, that I had no freedom. Like it was that structured job. I had to take vacations when everybody else had to take vacations. Like, it was very confining and I felt couldn't actually be myself because you have to be so professional all the time and you know, you gotta follow these rules. So yeah, so that's why I left it. And I really, of course I did it in a planned out way where I was like, okay, I have to make sure I'm making X amount of money before I do it. And thankfully the pandemic obviously was a horrible situation, but for me, I was teaching from home and it was a complete joke that first year of 2020. So that's when I really was able to, to build it up. And I'm like, I know I can't go back like this. Just, it would be so horrible if I did.

So why nutrition? Yeah, what's going on with you? Because usually we teach the thing we need to learn the most. So why nutrition?

So when I was struggling health wise, I had ibs, irritable bowel syndrome. So I was constantly constipated and bloated like all the time. I had monthly migraines, I had no period. I had all these things. And actually my grandpa, he passed away a couple of years ago, but he was into nutrition like before it was cool. Like in the 90s he would be sending us like greens powders and vitamin C powder and like all this stuff. So he definitely planted the seed when I was really young, even though I wasn't following it too much at the time. But it definitely must have stuck in some way because when I just started looking, I'm like, okay, I don't want to take medication. So what's my other route? And I just stumbled upon actually this woman called Kimberly Snyder, her book. And I started reading it and I'm like, okay, let me just change my what I'm eating to see how I feel. And I saw like, like such a drastic difference. And I love feeling good. Like I want to feel energy, I love feeling really healthy. And it's just drastically changed my life. And that's why I'm like, I need to help more people know about this information because a lot of us stay stuck because we don't know there's another option. And that was my fear. I was scared. I was like, I don't want to have to go on hormones. I don't, like, is there any other way? And when I found the other way, that's what really just, just dove me right into it.

Yeah. Especially not at 30.

Yeah.

So one of the things that I notice a lot, specifically in the heart triad, the twos, the threes, and the fours, because that underlying emotion is shame. That, you know, I notice that your center of intelligence, their body takes the hits internally. Right. Where like the five, six and sevens, they're more external with their symptoms, like skin problems. And I'm not a doctor, y', all, but I'm just seeing patterns. I'm just letting you know, you know, from a. An emotional intelligence level, which is my zone, that when we stuff our feelings or, you know, we suppress it, like we're putting energetic blocks. It's like a tourniquet, an energetic tourniquet on our body and really understand. It's like what we talked about on your podcast. Some of these health, health problems that people have have as much to do with emotions and how we process them. And where the Enneagram can really help you is you knowing, like, oh, I'm driven by this need to be liked and appreciated. You know, how you overextend yourself and you keep your own opinions and needs quiet. And when we do that, our body is going to take the hit.

Yeah. And I definitely internalize things. That's why I've always had gut issues for so long, because it gets, you know, right in there.

Yeah. I mean, the body, like we talked about, like, is the number one. Like the faith, the body and the Enneagram, like, those are my three things. Body and faith are number one, because the body never lies and the body never forgets. And as a two, you're always going to have to be very mindful of you stuffing your own needs down because you believe it's selfish or it won't allow you to do and get the hits of love and appreciation.

Yes.

Where in your life would you say you have the biggest hang up with this over giving?

Definitely with family, like we talked about before, of feeling like I have to be everything to everyone in my family. Like, I have to be the comforter, the supporter. I have to. If they text, I have to answer right away. If they ask me, you know, my sister asked me to watch the kids. I feel bad if I say no. And so over giving in that sense, for sure. I definitely, in the start of my business, was over giving and had no boundaries and was just like constantly going, going, going with it and helping other people and clients. And I, I have since set boundaries with that. It's still something where I have to be very conscious of it. It's not something that's supernatural, but it's more so now with over giving in family situations. But then on the day to day, I will notice that I like I said I have to be way more conscious about, okay, I need to stop working. It's time for me to make dinner and go to bed. Because I know I feel better if I go to bed early. And I could kind of extend my day unnecessarily, but those are the main areas, family stuff for sure.

And what is the consequence of being an over giver when it comes to your family?

Feeling like they think that I'm like, selfish for not helping? Or if I say no to not helping, it's like, well, why? Like, you're not doing anything today, so why can't you? And then I feel selfish.

I'm gonna give you probably the best phrase you could ever use. It will be very uncomfortable at first and especially with your family. And you know, gonna write this down. You Long island people are persistent and you'll call shit out. And I love. That's why I love you guys. So first of all, number one, family or not, can I get back to you in 24 hours? Like, if your sister says, hey, I want you to watch the kids, can I get back to you in 24 hours? You know, Renee's gonna be like, why?

Right?

What are you doing? Like, well, I need to check some things.

Especially if she's like, ask me for it in three months from now. I'm like, I don't know what's gonna be going on in three months.

And you don't owe her an explanation, first and foremost. Right? Let me get back to you. Right, Number one, at first, especially the people that you tend to say yes to consistently, they're gonna be, yeah. And you're like, because, period. Okay, number one. Then after 24 hours, when you assess, like if it wasn't appreciated, acknowledged, reciprocated, and you know, like, it's a big fuck no for you, then you need to say no.

Yes.

And then how you say it is, you know what, Renee? It's not going to work for me. Why not? And every two wants to. The reason they don't say no is because they don't have a reason. Right? You believe in your, in your soul. Like, if I don't have a valid reason, I should say yes.

Yes.

That's not true.

So you just say, it's not going to work for me. Why? Because it's not going to work for me. Why? Because it's not going to work for me. It not working for me may mean I don't want to talk to kids today. Right?

Like, I want to do my own thing today.

I want to Get a fucking pedicure.

Yeah. And literally that's what it'll be. And.

Why?

No, because you know what? She wants you to watch the kids so she can get a goddamn pedicure.

Right.

Okay, so. And I'm not knocking Renee. I get it.

Of course.

I know.

We love her.

We love her. We're team Renee, too. But we're just using her as an example. But this is a muscle that you're going to have to build overnight or it's not going to happen overnight. So.

No.

The first few times you exercise this, you're going to want to puke. Yeah. And you're gonna want to even maybe want to come up with a little white lie.

Right? Like just another excuse.

Yeah. No, no, no, no. No is a complete sentence, and it's not gonna work for me. Is a valid reason, and you don't have to explain it.

Yeah. And how do you move past that? Like, okay, so say. I say, no, it's not working for me. And then I go do my own thing. But then in the back of my head, that guilt will come up or that shame about it.

Guilt and shame keep you stuck. So if you are raising your hand saying you want to stay stuck, then you'll pull out the shame stick right. Now, the first few times, that may creep in because you've conditioned yourself to believe your needs are selfish. But why are Renee's not. Or mom and dads, or, like, you don't think they're selfish by asking you.

Right, Right.

So why are you selfish for having your own needs? For you to be the best helper and the best nutritionist. That helps at a very important level for people. If you overextend yourself, you're out of integrity for these people that you're. You say that you're going to help 100%. Yeah. So you have to discern what's best for you long game, not just this short term hit of, oh, my God, they love me still.

Right. What are some feelings I could gravitate towards instead of the guilt and shame?

Back to what we said earlier. And this is where your wings will come into play. Okay. So, you know, the two in you, if you're just leaning on your two, which is so instinct. Right. You will feel like shit.

Right.

I mean, it's. It's really hard to break that.

Yeah.

On one side of you. You know, And I kind of explained the wings. I. I did this call with this guy last week, and I usually ask, like, somebody's favorite movie because, you know, your favorite Movie. Isn't your favorite movie because of the mov main character. It's usually because they have a great supporting cast. Right? And the movie Rocky came up. You're probably too young to remember Rocky.

But I don't see any movies. I'm the worst, but I know of it, but I've never seen it.

So how we use our wings is like the supporting roles. So for those of you listening who know the movie Rocky, Sylvester Stallone, like by himself, really isn't shit. Sorry, Sly, but it's just the truth. Rocky is one of my favorite movies too, but without Adrian or Mickey or Paulie, the three main supporting people, that movie sucks. And even the dog Brutus, like his dog or. Yeah, Brutus or whatever his dog's name was. The reason that movie was so great were these supporting cast. Same thing with the two. Like, for you to be the best two, the champion two, you need a supporting cast. And that comes in the form of your wings, which is a one on one side and a three on the other. So when that two and you immediately wants to go to shame, like I'm a piece of shit for not saying yes because I want to get a pedicure or take a nap or. Or I don't want to people today.

Right.

Because you people more than anybody.

Yeah, yeah.

So what I usually tell it to is let's go to the truth serum, which happens to be the sheriff, which is the enneagram one. They are black and white thinkers. They straight shoot it. There's no gray area. They don't take feelings into consideration. And sometimes a two really freaking needs that. So especially like for somebody like you, when somebody asks you to do something, check your body first. Where do feel it? If you feel it in your gut, it means your gut's telling you this is a hard pass, right?

Yeah, it's always in my gut.

Yeah. And so when I make decisions, I check my gut too, because I want to flex. I want to show the world how freaking strong I am. So like, just because I can doesn't mean I should. Same for you. So go to your one wing first. Like, what's the truth here? Okay. And don't let the two try to justify why this is a great idea. Like, hey, one, hey, Sheriff, what's the truth here? The sheriff is saying, you know what? Renee can call somebody else to watch the kids.

Right?

And the fact of the matter is this, Corrine. If it's important to somebody, they will find a way.

Right?

This is where that enabling comes into play. Let's say she really needs a babysitter for something important. If you can't do it, whether you have a very hugely valid reason in your mind or you need a pedicure. Right. If she really has something important to you, she's going to find a way.

Right.

And you not making it easy for her will make her more resourceful. She'll be pissed. So what? Yeah, as parents we got to become resourceful. So that one, that one can really help you see the truth in it now.

Yeah.

The one doesn't love to upset people either. So the one isn't necessarily going to be the accelerator to say now like go tell.

They're just kind of like your, your compass and your. Like the sheriff is going to tell you what the rules are here right Now. If you just rely on your two, the two's gonna be like eh, fuck it. We're gonna say yes anyway. Because you know what we need? We need the dopamine hit of being loved.

And then you end up pissed because now you know better, but you're not doing better. The good news is on the other side of you, you have the three.

Yeah.

Which is like what's the goal here? Like this is, this is their gift. Like see the goal, hit the goal. See the goal, hit the goal. The goal is regulating your nervous system, taking time for yourself so you can say yes to the things that are really important to you. So that you can be in integrity and bring your best self to your clients.

Yes.

And to your future husband here and family down the road or whatever you choose.

Right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So the goal for the three is like oh, oh, self preservation. Especially since you're a self preservation type. Yeah, yeah. And one said no because the three is going to what the one say?

Right.

And the two's me like well no, what the one say? One said it's a hard no. And the three's like then it's a no. That's a no. And they're the accelerator. The goal is this. We're going fast.

Right? Right.

You're still love that. You're still left with your two feelings. Right. And again, this is a muscle that you've conditioned yourself to believe that you have to say yes in order to be worthy of love or approval, acceptance, attention. So just know it's not going to change overnight because if you continue to over yes yourself, you kind of look like not so much you as that self preservation type. You withdraw rather than kind of get more compliant like the typical two. You'll withdraw, turn inward but you have rage and anger and resentment. But. But it's internal. Which explains a lot of the old health problems you have.

Yeah, totally.

So the resentment and anger is there, but maybe you don't explode like some twos. Because your, your stress number is the enneagram 8, which is me, that challenger where you know what if resentment hits a two, you look very salty. Yeah. And then if you do explode, then you feel shitty about it and then the shame spiral continues.

So your growth number, we talked about it before we hopped on the call, is the enneagram 4, which is the individualist, which for every Enneagram type, the growth number looks very opposite of who we are. So even the names are opposite the helper to the individualist. Like Right. You probably judge that as like, oh my God, an individualist is so selfish.

However, the Enneagram 4 is the most intuitive on the Enneagram.

Wow.

Which they're divinely led now. They got their own set of problems, trust me. But not a four. But we want to use the beautiful. Like the target for you is to embody what a 4 is. Yeah. We'll always be, you know, in your superpowers of that helper connector relationship builder, where that four can be a little more self absorbed in their dysfunction. But for a 2 to be their very best, your target is to resemble and embody that authentic, unique, divinely LED self that doesn't get validation on the outside. It's an internal job now for you to embody the four. You can't do that with your two alone.

Right.

You will need the one and three. So if your goal is the four, like to have time to create, write. They're the most creative, artistic, the best storytellers. Like I said, intuition emotionally hold space for people is the four.

Wow.

And not from this desire to be worthy from other people. They hold emotional space because that's their gift. If a 2 is just over giving, they aren't ever divinely led. They're just operating on instinct and not intuition. And so if the one knows like no, you gotta say no. Because like you, you need to do that. You need to do that. Like the one can be the boss here and like boss you around, but the three will be the one that says no, no, we're not doing that. This is what we're going to do instead.

Right.

And so use them as support. So what I usually tell people, for those of you listening, and like you even said this at the beginning of us recording, is you knew about the two, but that's Usually where people stop and I'm going to tell all of you, once you know you're typed properly, I don't want you to focus on your core type. I want you to read and really understand the gifts in your wings. Because you want to use both wings. Right? I mean, you got two tools right there. Yeah. Most people just lean heavy into one or they say, hey, I'm a two wing. Three. Great. You're missing the boat though. Right?

One is just as important.

You need both for you to go to your growth number. You're gonna need both.

Yeah, I love that.

Always need both. And so really research like the gifts of the 1. Integrity, high standards, straight shooting, black and white thinking. A2 needs those gifts in their life. They have boundaries. They have boundaries. Ones have boundaries. And they're like, no, that does not operate on the standard in which I do. I love ones for this reason. It's why my web designer, she's a one. I wanted this on purpose, pain in the ass, very structured. And it pisses me off because I feel controlled by it. But I also know the gifts and that's why I want it. So two needs that. And then you also need an accelerator button. That doesn't stop to think about how everybody else in the world is going to feel about this. Right.

So good. So I must have been using those wings when I left teaching at some point.

You know, it was a very for thing to do, which is a beautiful thing. That is a true indicator of your growth. Now we'll have to work on the areas of your family.

Yeah, yeah.

And really start flexing this muscle. And if your family is listening right now, we love you.

Yeah, we do.

We do. But we want her to be her very body best self. And. And I know you all want that too. So what questions do you have around, like your two and like, that was.

So amazing what that looks like. Well, I think the 4 information was really helpful because I do feel like my absolute best when I tap into that. And I for sure tap into it without knowing it. Like if I'm. When I'm out in nature more or I'm writing and journaling, like, I love doing all of that. Like, that is my favorite. I don't always allot as much time to it as I think I desire. Yeah, right. Or I feel like I need to be doing something else. Yeah, yeah. Like, oh, I need to be doing something else. Like, this is a waste of time. But not that it's a waste of time because I absolutely. There is so much value And I recommend it to my clients and all that too, because it's so valuable. But I definitely do feel that creeping up, especially with things that my fiance and I want for our future, like, there's definitely need to be moving more towards the four for all of that. So I'm definitely gonna dive deeper into that. And I just think it's so validating to hear all of this. And it's so awesome to know the support from the 1 and the 3 and how to tap into each one to get to the 4, like, because otherwise, just thinking going from a 2 straight to a 4 without having the 1 and 3 help, it seemed a little bit more daunting, I guess.

Here's another part that a lot of people don't talk about is your stress number being an eight. A lot of times we just fixate that. Oh, my God. That's where I go under stress. The gift of the framework and the system of the enneagram is that 8 isn't just for stress. You can use it as an empowering part. And you know, the eight girl, like.

You'Re talking to her. I love it.

Yeah. We straight shoot it. We are not afraid of a challenge, and we will go toe to toe with anyone. And so you've got that eight in you. Championing, just. It is more of a natural kind of stress number. But the more that you understand the gifts of the eight, you can lean on that, too.

Yeah, I love that. I definitely like that. Yeah.

So as a two and all the twos, listening or whatever your type is, don't study your type so much. You study your wings. The 1, 3, 4, and 8. I want you to really find the best, best behaviors and qualities and things that those four types bring to your life, because the tools are right there. But just like any tool, they're only as good as you know how and when to use them. Right.

I love that. I have a random question. Do you think that we're. Are we born with the Enneagram, or do we come into it?

So, you know, there's lots of schools of thought. You know, I'm a bottom line me kind of girl. And, you know, I. I believe this, that we are born with a divine calling, temperament, disposition from a divine source. I call it God, whatever you call it. Or if you don't believe that, then this probably isn't the show for you. But I do believe that. And I've carried two babies in my belly, and their temperament and disposition is very, very much who they are. At 24 and 25 it's very 2 like and 7 like, totally. So, you know, this is where it's kind of like, you know, you were born end of August. Right. So you're a Virgo. That's not changing.

Yeah, right.

That's not changing. However, the expression of your Virgo ness, the expression of your enneagram2ness can change the expression based on experiences, circumstances, stress, emotions, birth order, the moon, the sun, the stars, like life, you know, the weather, the world. Like how that gets expressed can change. And so the enneagram is like nature and nurture colliding and then these instincts that we have. So I've always been an 8. But how it got expressed in my home looked very, very different than how it looks in the world. And when I was in the world as an adult and I wasn't at my best, my 8 was like every stereotype that there is for an 8. 8. Right. But as I've grown, you've gotten to know me a little bit over our two weeks of friendship here.

Yeah.

We've spent a lot of time talking.

I know.

I'm still eight. I'm intense as.

Right.

I come from. Is from a healthy place. And it's coming not from this fear that I'm going to be betrayed and violated all the time. It's coming from, you know, this, this knowing that divine intuition. And so I don't believe our type ever changes. That's why I'm one of those that believes that we can use this framework with children. We don't test them and label them, but I can guide parents in what that looks like for their children.

So amazing.

Yeah. So, you know, the beautiful thing is, is you don't have to change who you are divinely called to be.

Exactly.

What we have to work on is the come from. Right. The motive. Right. If we're motivated because we are fearful that, that, you know, for a two, your biggest fear is not being liked or appreciated. So if you are worried that that fear is going to be nicked all the time, that's when we operate from a come from that is more dysfunctional.

Right.

So good. But when you're in that four zone, that's all divinely led for you.

And I could feel like knowing this now, like having the language around it, I could 100% feel when I'm in that four space, like it's very different.

Oh, my God. When a four like my son, I told you he's a two.

Yes.

When I see him in his four, you guys have the biggest dick energy of all time. And it is so attractive on all of you. And it allows you to be the best kind of leaders because you guys actually give a shit about people.

Yeah.

Like I have to work at it a little bit more than you do. But you need that big dick energy in order to really daily. And it's sexy. It's sexy. And you are able to serve at levels nobody else can because those are your superpowers. The last thing I want to say to you because you're getting married to a five.

Yes.

Which you know, are low key. My favorite type on the enneagram. All the Fives. The most introverted, just mysterious.

I love them.

The cool thing is, is, you know, what's your fiance's name? Name?

Chris.

So you and Chris have a similar wing. And I love this when couples have similar wings or you don't have to for it to work, but this is something. This is a beautiful spot where you can meet in the middle. Because Chris is a five, has a four wing and also a six wing.

Right? Yeah.

So this is a beautiful. Like, you guys are wired very differently, which we've talked about before. But this is a beautiful meeting spot where it's your growth. Well, you don't have similar wings, but you have this growth number in common. Like.

Right.

Your growth number. And it's one of his wings. And so it's this beautiful kind of meeting of where you. Even though you are kind of opposites in a lot of way, because he's more analytical, you know, not emotional gift, disconnected emotionally. His gift. But also his kryptonite. Right?

Yes.

Carrying a feeler.

Yes.

But him having a four wing allows him to tap into the emotions and that intuition and not be so analytical, which is where he can meet you and probably why you do feel safe with him. Yeah.

Oh, my gosh.

Wow.

And when we're both in that. It's so nice.

Yes. It's. Oh, great sex happens there. Chemistry, creativity, trust, Dreamy. All that happened.

That's like our favorite thing to do together.

Well, now it's your growth number. And because it's your favorite place, you have the tools to know how to get there easier. Yeah. It's still going to be a stretch for you because that too is so ingrained in you, the two. Because that fear of not being liked or appreciated runs very strong in you. Just like my fear of being betrayed or violated.

Yeah.

Keeps walls up. I don't want walls up, but sure as fuck they're up. Yeah, I have to work on that all the time. With love and compassion for myself. So when you feel yourself, like, you know, over giving, be. Be gentle with yourself and loving and know that. That it's just a little girl inside of you saying, I'm afraid of not being liked or appreciated. You using your wings to let her know that, like, you know what? People are on their own journey. We're here to do great works in the world, so we're going to have to say no so that we can kind of be our individual self to who we were divinely called to be. Not everybody's going to be on board for that. And you know what? We're going to be okay.

Oh, my God.

Preach.

Tracy, you're so amazing. This is so good. I love you.

I know. You know, I get a lot of two listeners, so they're going to appreciate you so, so much.

Oh, good.

Two's definitely. You guys. I know I was given a two to raise and a two son to raise because this isn't a natural go to for me. I would have judged y' all as weak sauce. Like, Jesus, you need all this approval all the time. And, like. But I was gifted it too, that. You know, he is probably one of my greatest teachers. Like, I get to see what compassion and empathy and boundaries because he's learned how to do it look like day in and day out now. And, you know, I've. I've told you before, I was in a moment this week and my walls are way up, and he can feel it because you guys do. And I was trying to not talk about it, and he's like, I know something's going on, and I just blurted it all out. And he's like, those are. Those are thoughts that are a lot. He goes. And I'm like, I know. And they're so intense, you know?

Yeah.

And he's like, yeah, you got to work on the thoughts. He goes, but the feelings are real.

Oh, he's right.

And he wasn't just trying to fix it for me. So I was like, or trying to make mom feel better. Like, he wasn't in a codependent bond with me. And I was like, like, fuck, yes, we did this.

This is like, oh, I love that.

So great. So I'm really proud of you. But I want people to know where they can learn from you, because, you know, our episode on hormones has a lot to do with this emotional intelligence. And I know you talk about, you know, nervous system regulation, which is a big thing for, you know, hormones. So where can people find you and learn from you?

Yes. So you can find me at the Mind you'd Hormones podcast anywhere you get podcasts at. There's hundreds of episodes. So great to just dive in. Lots of information there on hormone health, period health like cycle health, all things holistic wellness and then also on Instagram at Corinne Angelica. And you know if you want to work together, I talk about the courses I offer on there. You could always DM me. Please reach out. I would love to hear from you and see how I can support you. Obviously I'm a too but also how this episode maybe helped you because I would be so interested to see if it did.

Yeah. You guys know I don't let people shout out their shit unless I believe in them. And I have vetted them fully and I like them. I don't do interviews with people. I don't believe in them. So there's that and there's nobody better than a 2 to really get to the heart of matters. And I know personal health and because I've experienced that is very emotional and scary sometimes. And there's nobody better than a 2 and especially this beautiful lady to help you on that journey. So you guys find her. If you loved this episode and you got something out of it, please share it with somebody that needs to hear it. Screenshot this Tag us on Instagram. All the things you know, we definitely showed up for each other and all of you today and it would mean the world to us if you shared it. And as always, I'm helping you hopefully become the ultimate leader in your life so that you can do what you're divinely called to do in this lifetime. My dear, I love you.

Oh, I love you. Thank you so much for having me. This was amazing.

My pleasure, babe. See you guys next time.

I'm so happy you enjoyed the Leadership Formula Podcast. Please help us spread the word about this show by sharing it with a friend and leaving a written Apple podcast review. If you have any follow up questions to this episode, you can DM me directly on Instagram. Tracyamalley. You can can also find additional resources on my website@tracy o'malley.com I'm excited to lead you into the next level of your life.