EP243: Live Enneagram Typing Session - Never Underestimate the Emotional Intelligence or Power of an Enneagram 5 with Erin Porter

Welcome to the Leadership Formula podcast, where you will learn the secret sauce behind achieving massive success. I'm your host, Tracy o', Malley, multimillion dollar entrepreneur, your Enneagram expert, master performance coach, and mom to millennials. Do you want deep, meaningful relationships, to wake up every day with purpose and make money doing something you love? Well, you've landed in the right place. Every week, I will teach you how.

To get exactly what you want in.

Life by strengthening your emotional intelligence. Using a combination of the Enneagram framework, live life coaching sessions, and real talk from yours truly. It's time to transform yourself into the ultimate leader of your life. So let's do this thing.

All right, you guys, welcome back. It is your favorite kind of episode. It's where we reveal somebody's Enneagram type who may not know anything about the Enneagram or they've been mistyped or, you know, who knows? And today's guest I have been really, really excited to bring to you. You guys know I'm no bullshit, and I don't ever bring anybody that I haven't energetically vetted and also really kind of gotten a good read on them. I am here to never bring anything that isn't going to serve you. And today I'm bringing you Erin Porter. She's also known as Erin nicolecoaching on Instagram, and she does beautiful, beautiful work in the world. She has a certification agency, which is beautiful, but it is specifically in the subconscious and somatic work. And you guys have heard me talk about Sarah the spiritual influencer out there before, selling her programs and all those things that I think are bullshit and manipulative and really out of integrity, quite honestly, it's fucking madness, and it drives me crazy. So there's your disclaimer for the day. Erin Nicole is the opposite of that. She is somebody that I'm so grateful is doing this authentic, real work in the world on a business level. Right? Because so often many of you guys go, you just want the strategy. You want the strategy. You know, you got shit that is piling up under the carpet that you've swept everything under. But you and I both know that if you sweep it under long enough, you're going to trip over it. And usually it's at a time that is so not convenient. It is humiliating, and it's very costly on all the spectrum. So I love that Erin is bringing this beautiful work to the workplace, to entrepreneurship, and just to your life in general. Because you know what? We all freaking need it. Erin, I'm so happy you're here.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited.

So cool story. Her and I met four years ago, and we were on a call. A mutual friend kind of brought us together. And it was funny because I was like, I don't love doing those kind of calls because I'm like, if you don't trust me, then screw you. I'm kind of like, that energy. Big shocker. But I. I immediately was on this call with her, and I could feel her energy. Like, she was just really, like, taking note of what I was saying. And I'm very intense, y', all, and she's the opposite. She is very calming and peaceful in the most beautiful way. And usually when I'm around those kind of people, I feel like in the past, I have tried to kind of show you how strong and powerful I am. In the past, I would have done that. I don't know if I did it on that call. I know I was bold.

Bold.

I was bold, but I was straight, and whatever that was, didn't end up working out, which was great. But then we reconnected a couple months ago when she joined the mastermind that I am, a part of, a business mastermind. And I was freaking elated when I saw her name pop up, because, a. I knew she made it and was crushing it, because to be part of this mastermind, you have to make ridiculous amounts of money and make a huge impact in the world. And I had been watching her, and I knew the work she was doing, and to know that she was doing this work and having tremendous success for herself as well was beautiful. So let's kind of go into that. What made you join a mastermind, first and foremost?

I love that question.

I made a commitment that in this last, like, year and a half, that I was going to start to edge my. Edge my edges in groups, because I.

Am, you know, the quiet one. Not that I'm, like, pulled back, but.

I'm there, and I'm listening, and I'm kind of gathering and feeling into it. And I knew that, you know, in receiving from self, in receiving from other it. In receiving from, like, you know, spirit.

And I knew that there were edges.

For me in groups that I needed to explore, because obviously, I mean, you know, this. They mirror our family dynamics. And until you're in groups and in groups that are going to teach you in different ways, will you not learn whatever you need to learn next? I was like, okay, we're gonna really amp that up and do a couple this year.

Well, you Went like you swung for the fences like you. You didn't just like dabble. You went for something that I'm sure emotionally, physically and financially was scary.

Yeah.

So when I met her, of course, you know, everybody's asking me about the Enneagram and all the things, and they all drink the Kool Aid and lots of people in the Mastermind were aware of Enneagram, knew that I was the person that talked about it. And the beautiful thing about Erin is she knew nothing really about it. She'd heard about it because I'm sure, like, you hear about it all the time, but she really didn't know much about it. And everybody's like, what do you think she is? What do you think she is? And I was like, well, first of all, I don't know her well enough to just say, you know. But energetically, I definitely felt like 9ish energy. Like that, that quiet, nonjudgmental, beautiful, safe place. And I was like 9 energy. But I'm not buying it completely. And so her and I have been chatting for a while and I had her take my assessment. And she's actually an enneagram 5. But where she's different than typical Enneagram Fives is she is the one on one subtype, the one to one subtype, which she has the ability where the other Enneagram Fives, the self preservation and the social, are definitely more analytical. The 1 to 15 has the ability to tap into that emotional vulnerability that the other kinds don't. And I felt that. But that being said, going back to that phone call that we were on four years ago and just observing you like you are somebody that takes in information, takes in information, Takes information. And like what you said about the reason you joined, like, it's one thing to have all the information, but we can't really build the muscle until we're in it. And that is the gift of the 1 to 1 5, which, you know, in each Enneagram type, there's one that doesn't look like the other counterparts. And yours is that it makes total sense. So you guys have heard me say my favorite Enneagram Type is the 5. So, like, it made me love her even more. So this observing you still, even in that room, I watched you and you did sit back for a little bit, for a little bit. But then I watched you do something. It was like all of a sudden we were put in groups and of course you worked your magic. And not from a ego or showy place, but from this inner knowing. Where did you really start to transition? Because the thing about the Five, their vice is avarice, which is hoarding, whether it's resources, energy. Because the biggest fear of the Five is not being equipped and capable to handle things and not having enough knowledge. So where did you make the shift from gathering of information to understanding that in order for there to be transformation of any kind, whether personally or professionally, it would require you to release some of this energy, whether it's intellectual property or emotional property.

Yeah. I feel like there was a moment, you know, after the first day, I came back to my room and I was like, erin, you came here to put yourself out there, but you got it. Like, it's got to be authentic to me. Like, I could. I can't. I'm not just like, the one that's going to go up at the front of the room, like, get everybody hyped. That's not me. So I'm like, what, like, what is your coming more with the energetics? I'm not. Yes. I have a lot of business strategy. And so I had to say, Aaron, like, you can support these people too. Like, you're. You have this way. And I think I was kind of running this story of, like, why are you actually an asset? Like, you know, you're not talking, like, business stuff. And then we got put into the groups and there was that opportunity to connect deeper and, like, in that, like, kind of like one to one ish space, even in a small group. And that's where I was like that you. You can support these people. Like, you can help and be an asset of it as well. So I think that was kind of my shift.

Was it scary for you to, like, have that loving conversation with yourself? Because I have to do that to myself too, because I'm always, like, in protection mode, always.

So.

So I have to have little pep talks that are loving and compassionate with myself. Otherwise I can go into judgment and shame and things like that. Was that a loving conversation with yourself and, like, an honoring one?

Yeah, it was like, okay, what are.

The things that you're gonna, like, commit yourself to doing tomorrow? It's like, you're gonna connect. Like, I had to kind of give myself, like, you know, three little things that I wanted to commit to. And I did go in and do some, like, processing, like, at nighttime and in the morning. So I had, like, I said that part was like, okay, you don't want these four days to pass by, and you got it. You got to find it in your way. So I kind of was working Internally and then made those, like three things that I was going to do. I'm like, we're going to do these today.

Yeah. The thing about five, specifically, they don't love big groups. Even though this isn't a large group to a lot of people, for you and me, it's a lot of people. It's a lot of energy in one space. And especially people like you and I that are kind of observing and taking in information. That's a lot of bodies to really, like, keep an eye on. Right. And I love that you did that. And it was beautiful to watch you do it. Like, seriously, I saw you evolve through the whole week that we were together. And I'm so grateful because I. I could feel the magic in you and I was hoping that the rest of them would be able to experience it. Even though you and I didn't really get to chat much one on one. Like, it was like this, this knowing. I just felt like, ah, there she is. She's shining, she's doing the work. Because I'm going to be honest, last year I was the only one kind of able to kind of hold that space in that way. So it was beautiful to watch somebody who's different than me, younger than me, and does it a little bit differently. But we have the same kind of vision for this work in the business workplace. To watch you do it and do it so elegantly was magical. Where in your life did you recognize that that is a shift you needed to make? Rather taking in information, becoming equipped and capable, but then the integration of that process is a whole different ballgame, especially for an enneagram 5. And you said you're a projector on the human design, so that makes a lot of sense too. When did you recognize that you were holding yourself back with all this gathering and that you needed to do something a little bit different?

My entire life.

Yeah. I was going to say it'll be a constant work in progress.

Right? Yeah. Yeah.

Wow. I mean, I have always been a learner and I got certifications and graduate degrees and stuff like that for days. And I had. I have always been that way. Like, I love learning so much and I can learn all day, but if I don't actually, you know, put it out there into the world, like, what good is it to do? Like, even if I'm just receiving it, like, okay, cool, I'm processing. But if I'm not supporting and actually letting myself put that out there. And so I honestly think it's been like this cyclical thing. Like, you Know, I can think back to elementary where groups were tougher for me and I, you know, people would come to me in kind of like the one to one setting. And then it's the same story that played out like, wow, like Aaron can really like help you. I was like life coaching on the playground. And then same thing in like I would do all of the organizations, I would do all of the leadership roles with everything to kind of take in what I needed to take in. And then it's like, okay, now you can actually put this out there. And something else that feels like, I guess relevant to share is that it feels really important to me to make sure that I am equipped to support people on the level. Whether that was like when I was little or in high school or in grad school or now. Because I don't like not being in deep integrity with it. So I don't know if that's something within it too, if that answers your question. But that's also the thing that floats around in the back of my head.

So, you know, as an enneagram 5, like having resources and capabilities is super important. You guys are called the quiet specialist or the investigator, which that's totally like the constant learner. Like you guys can go down a rabbit hole for weeks on something that you're passionate about. Right. It's why like if I ask an enneagram5 that has a specialty, like I know I'm gonna get 100% true answer. That's facts. Because you don't, like, you may not know everything about everything, but what you do know about your experts in a specialist in. So honestly, like, other than myself, you're probably one of the only other people I would actually go to talking about like somatic work or more the subconscious work.

Yeah.

Quite honestly, like there aren't. There's like nobody out there that I would really trust and, and I'm no bullshit. You know this. You are probably one of the only few that I would ever. And you guys, I'm telling you, like when we get to the end of this, you're going to want to follow along with her and be part of whatever she's doing. But as that quiet specialist, I love that you recognize that I do need to put this out into the world. Otherwise what is the point? But also finding the sweet spot for you in a way that feels, feels good where you don't feel depleted or drained or any of those things. So within the subtypes. So the enneagram, and I know you'll appreciate this is A combination of like nature and nurture. I do believe we are born with a temperament, disposition, calling a divine order for our life. Right? I do. And that is where your core Enneagram type comes into play. Like this is this was wired in you just like your human design. Just like you're an Aries like me. That doesn't change, right? But the expression of who we are absolutely can, based on experiences, families, school systems, experiences, thoughts, whatever. And so kind of nature and nurture collide and the expression of who we are can change throughout our life. Now the beautiful part that I love about the Enneagram is it kind of this framework for your soul, just like human design can do in some ways. And astrology, I love astrology too. Like it's all just this roadmap to what we were divinely here to do. Now we're going to have to wade through a lot of wreckage and bullshit of experiences and traumas or whatever we've or beliefs that we've built up in our own head based on things that were taught, told and modeled for us, right? So the clearing of some wreckage is where the real challenge comes in. Getting back on the roadmap to who we were always designed to be. So as an enneagram 5 and especially that 1 to 1 5, this is where the instincts come into play. And this is why a lot of people are mistyped on the Enneagram is because of these instincts that we grow up with. This is the nature and nurture colliding. And so the expression of your Fiveness can come out in one of three ways. You're either a self preservation type, so when things happen, whether good or bad, you immediately think what's going to happen to me? Safety, security, material safety and security is really important as well. I think the friend that introduced us was a self preservation 5. So like when things don't go their way, like it's white knuckling it to the core and like gatekeeper, everything's gone. So they are the most introverted and private and all of that. Now the one to one subtypes, whether it's a five or any other type of when things happen. And this makes sense hearing you talk about where and how you grew up. Same here. I'm a 1 to 18 that when life happens, I immediately think what's going to happen to us? My close people, my family, my very close friends, like my inner, inner circle. Like the five people I let into my life. Basically at this point before I think about myself, it's not like the wide scale necessarily. Can I? Yes. Can you? Yes. But this is our sweet spot is the intimacy and intensity of an experience with a small group and small few people. This is your sweet spot. Now, the social. When things happen, good or bad, they think, what's going to happen to we as the collective. Right. So the greatest good, all the people. Right. So as an eight, I'm more of like you that one to one. Like, I'm not going to go fight a cause for the whole world. I'm not. But if you mess with my people, I will kill you. No problem. Like, I will. Where somebody like Mother Teresa or Martin Luther King, they were the more social subtype, where they're taking on, like, world causes. All are equally important. And we can kind of find harmony in all three, which, in talking to you, you do have that ability to flow through all three. Right. I've felt all three with you, and same here. But this is your sweet spot. And when you kind of understand that and build a business kind of structured around that, which we'll get into, like, that's the beautiful thing that happens now, being that 1 to 1 5, you are, because of that intensity for experience, and you have emotional connections with the US you are able not only to be more emotional than the typical Five, who is more analytical, but you are actually seeking intimate bonds with people more than the other Fives, because the other Fives can kind of come across as very cold or disconnected emotionally. That's their gift and also can be the kryptonite. Yeah, right. So that's exciting. When I was like, oh, okay, this makes a lot more sense. So growing up, we'll just touch on it a little bit, because this is where the subtype kind of was rooted for you. So you grew up Midwest girl, you guys, Ohio girl on a farm. Right. And kind of briefly touch on the situation and how, like, Aaron grew up and where this, like, instinct to, like, what's. What's going to happen to us? Came into play.

Yeah.

So grew up, you know, very much, like, Midwest energy. Like, you're working, taking care of the animals, going to school, doing all the things in terms of, like, family dynamics. So my mom and dad got divorced when I was in, like, first grade. I have two older brothers that came from a previous marriage of my mom's. I don't even think I, like, knew that, though. Like, until I was older, I was like, oh, they're technically half brothers. Like, I had no. Had no idea. And then I have a little brother, too. And so with dad, it Was more of, what can I achieve to. To earn? Like, it wasn't as much, like, I know at the core of it, yes, love, but it was like that intimacy. It was that, like, recognition time and, like, being seen in that way. And, you know, with my mom, she had been married a couple of times, and we had a stepdad after that as well. And, you know, for her, I was always like, I want. I need to make sure, like, she's okay because, you know, if we are going away for a weekend, I remember, like, calling her and being, like, sad that she was at home because my brothers were, you know, in high school doing their thing or were even older than that at some point. So I think, to answer pieces of your question, like, right there, you know, it was like, okay, is she okay? Or, you know, for going to my dad's house as my little brother okay. It was always kind of like, are these people okay? Is this person okay? Is this person okay? Like, in the core sense of people? But I'd say bigger family, I wasn't as worried about.

Yeah, same. The thing I love about the five, and I'll explain how you and I are connected. The thing that I love about the five is they're always building cases. And because they're so thought out, I mean, this can work against you too, right? Like, I mean, you can build a case for yourself, like, in general, you can build a case for other people, like your mom or your brothers or the people that you teach and train or your boyfriend or yourself. Right. Or we can build cases against ourselves and other people, which is where I tend to go with my fiveness sometimes. I've learned how to use it for the good. But because you're kind of always gathering facts, what's true, what's not, you know, when it comes to the emotional aspect of it, that's the gift of the 1 to 15 is you have the ability to look at the emotional aspect of it where the other fives don't. Now, I'm betting that sometimes this gathering of information has gotten in your way in your life.

Oh, for sure.

Whether it's building a case for or against you. Where personally have you recognized that building cases for or against you have gotten in your way?

Relationships.

Men. Yeah, hands down.

Yeah, same. Yeah.

Seeing potential.

Like a gift and a.

Curse, which isn't that hilarious? It's like you gathered enough information to see potential, but you quit gathering information when you knew, like, if I gathered more information is probably going to be a big fuck. No.

Yeah.

Anybody else? Oh, no. Unless you check all my boxes, you're. You're dead to me. Right? I swear to God. Where has gathering information and not maybe taking action on it hindered you business wise in the past?

The first thing that comes to mind is like not speaking up about like the depth of support and kind of being like, nah, maybe people will find me and maybe people will know that I have like this way that I can support people and just kind of, you know, in the projector piece of it, waiting too much for my invitation and not like not putting, like I was putting things out there, but wasn't owning it.

Right. Yeah, I think a lot of times. And I've, you know, I've worked with tons of fives. I have a lot of private clients that are fives because we. They understand that. I understand that they're not naturally like, hey, listen to me, look at me. Like, even though you are wiser and smarter than all of us, you really, really are. The subconscious worry is that if I put myself out there, they're going to want too much from me and I'm going to energetically and emotionally become drained. And then I won't have the capacity to do the things that I know I'm here to do. Has that happened to you?

Yeah, I mean, my whole like, you know, big life story has been around Burnout and a lot of that.

Yeah. You wrote a book called that, right? Yeah. What's it called again?

Burnout to Breakthrough.

It's exactly. It's the championing of the enneagram 5. Because they're worried all the time that if they use their voice, people are going to want too much of them. And then if, because they're such integrous people, for the most part, if they retreat or recoil, then they're out of integrity. So they'd rather just not even do it.

Interesting.

Happens a lot. And I've seen so many Fives that seriously, you guys are brilliant. That their gifts die with them because they're so concerned about that. So what have you done? You know, we talked about it in the Master. Like when you were talking about the mastermind and you had given yourself the little pep talk, like, how did you recognize that that's something that you needed to do? Like not just that weekend, but in general, because you have a huge presence in the world. Maybe not like big and bold and loud, but you are consistent and you show up and you are energetically, very loud in the most beautiful way. So when did you really learn and how do you manage that? Fear of Burnout.

Yeah.

I mean, I hit really hard. Adrenal fatigue in 2000. Let's say 15, 20, 17 is when I got, like, diagnosed with it. But I've been running that programming from 5 years old and had mono, chronic fatigue syndrome, enlarged spleen in high school. So I now know I'm like, oh, I just kept going and going, like, achieving. And again, it sounds like kind of more of the, like, collecting of the things and supporting them, even energetically, too, like, throughout my entire life and even in the earlier years of business, just doing that over and over. It wasn't until I started doing a lot of, like, the, like, deeper inner work. And I say deeper because, you know, yeah, affirmations are great, but they're not going to.

That's preschool, y'. All.

They're going to touch, like, the depths of your trauma. And did I understand why I was doing it and could actually feel it in my physical body of like, oh, this is when I'm pushing myself too much and I need to find that balance. Could I have even known that that was happening? You know, there were times where I'm like, yes, I'm resting. I was like, no, I was just dissociating.

Exactly. There's a big difference between disassociation and rest and renewal. I say that too, like you. I take time for myself. I'm like, is it in solitude or is it in isolation? Because there's a big fricking difference.

Yeah. Yeah, right.

I love that. And I'm so happy. Like, I didn't figure out the somatic part so much until I was in my 40s, because I'm just such that, like, adrenaline, like, I can. So why shouldn't I?

Right?

That's an eight thing. Like, we just want to show the world how freaking powerful we are. And then energetically, like, my body was like, ah, hold my beer, basically. So I'm glad that you were able to find that out earlier so that your gifts can shine and you can do it from a place that not only helps other people, but also honors you. Yeah, right. So one of the things that I talk about all the time, like, in enneagram language, so often when we figure out our type, we go especially fives, because now that, you know, you might go into research mode. And I always tell fives, like, don't stay up all night, like, finding everything out about the five, which I know you're going to do it anyway, but maybe not you, because you have some boundaries. But what I don't want people to really hyper Fixate on all the time is your core type, because you are that. Like, you don't even know you're a five, but you've been living like a five. You don't really need to research more of it. You kind of know the root of everything that you do is motivated by a need to know and understand, period. End of story. Your biggest fear is, like, not being equipped or capable. Right. So when you're holding yourself back, it's a part of you believes that. Right? Right. I'm sure that's pretty consistent in all areas of your life. So the real gift comes in these extra tools in our tool belt that we can use. When the five in you isn't the right tool for the job, it's kind of like we all know how to use a screwdriver. We don't need a guide or a YouTube tutorial to use a screwdriver. But it's not often the right tool for the job. Sometimes you need a chainsaw, sometimes you need a drill. But if you don't know the circumstances or how to use those, if you try to pick them up, you're going to do some damage to yourself or others, or you're just gonna say, fuck it, give me the screwdriver. It's what I know. Deal with it. Not effective, and it's frustrating. So you have these things called wings. So on the diagram of the Enneagram, it's a big circle, nine is at the top, and then it goes one through eight till it meets the nine again. And our wings are these extra tools in our tool belt. So as a five, on one side of you you have the four, and on the other side of you you have the six, you're always going to be motivated. Like a five, which you are. It's very projector as well. And Aries love that. But on the one side of you is the four, which is the individualist. They are the romantic, they are the most intuitive. On the Enneagram, they have the ability to hold emotional space better than anyone. On the Enneagram, I see you in this a lot, in the work you do. Creativity, storytelling, artistic abilities. Not just pretty stuff, but the artistry that you bring to your craft and your gift that you bring this world, the way that you bring this work to the people, is artistry in of itself. It's not threatening. It's not woo as fuck. It's beautiful how you bring it to life. A lot of that has to do with the four wing. So when the five in you is like, let's gather information. What do we need to do? You use that four wing, that hotel room that night, saying, hey, what am I really feeling right now? What is like, what is the emotion here? Because the five, left to its own ways, won't go emotional, even though you are more of that emotional type. If you're really scared, intellect will override emotion every time. And heart and feeling, which is why you burnt out at 25 years old.

Totally.

Now, on the other side of you is the six, which is the strategist, which is the collaborator, which is the troubleshooter. They're called the loyal skeptic. So just like the fives need certainty that you're going to be equipped and capable, the six need certainty that they are prepared, responsible, and supported. Right? So you can imagine if the 5 is left to its own 5 ways, and if you're just in the tunnel vision of five, it's just, I just need information, information, information. But you and I both know that doesn't really get you anywhere. So you have to tap into the heart, the emotion of it, which is your four wing. And then, okay, I've got the information. I know why and. And what this will look like. Now that six wing is implementation, which you do all the time. The other two numbers that are connected to you, we have a growth number. And this is the one that I really tell people to focus on. Because even five at their best, you're still not necessarily going to be a world class leader, because part of you will say, I just like being behind the scenes over here with people. Right. That's your natural inclination. Ironically, your growth number happens to be what I am, which is an eight. And that's like, eights are known to be like thought leaders, world class, like Martin Luther King, Mother Teresa. Like, they aren't afraid of a challenge, and they are the most intense energy. Big shocker on the Enneagram. And it's not that you're ever going to be motivated like an 8 or me, but you can tap into the superpowers and with your wings, because the five by itself will never go there. But with the four and the six kind of championing that five in, you say, hey, and you're doing it every day in your work. Like we have something powerful. We can do it on our terms, but we're gonna freaking do it. That 8 is like, let's freaking go. And we will go toe to toe with anyone, even when it's intense, knowing. And I always tell fives, doesn't mean you can't go Hide in your cave. When it's all over, you can. The five is my stress number. So when I'm under complete stress, I mimic what you look like probably most days.

Interesting.

So somebody that's very intense naturally, all of a sudden, I go into quiet. Sometimes it's solitude, sometimes it's isolation.

Right.

So I have to discern what's the truth here. Is this me resting and refueling and using that five in a healthy way, or me locking down and building a case against the world and myself? Right now, your stress number. So, like, where my stress number is five, and it kind of looks very different than how I express typically to the world, you know, the five is more quiet anyway. And your stress number is the seven, which is our friend Keisha.

Right. When they're not healthy, they can appear almost manic. Not saying that outwardly a 5 will ever appear that way, but if we, like, cracked open your brain and your heart, there's probably 8 million tabs open at once when you're under extreme stress. Which explains the body burnout totally. Because you may not express like a frantic seven would outwardly, but internally, your body takes the hits, and it keeps score. So because you do so much somatic work, not just teaching it, but for yourself, you can recognize very quickly when you're in that. And same when I'm going into that five cave, somatically, I feel it, and I have to discern is this. You know, what is this? Because a lot of times you can justify the frantic, because I got to know more. I got to know more. Right. It's how we justify it, and then we create the problem. So does that sound about right for you?

Sounds exactly right. Like, the. The internal tabs being open. Because it's not something I would. You would never know it never, ever. You would never have a guest in the world. Because I can, you know, put on that. That mirror, and that's been. I mean, that's my life story.

Yeah. And that's why fives, I think. And I get along because energetically, I know you're doing it. Like, I know when a 5 is doing that, even though you've got it all put together. Because for the same reason, like, I can be, like, right here in front of you, and energetically, I have completely cut off. And people can feel it from you and I, but they can't put their finger on what just happened.

Totally.

Like, they could never say, oh, but there's no. Like, people. Especially people that are more in tune energetically, they're like, I don't know what just happened, but like the lights are out and nobody's home.

Mm.

It's our protection mechanism. It's also our safety and it's also the thing that'll take us out.

Yeah.

If we're not careful. I'm so glad that you figured this out so early. So that being said, you know, the work that you do, you guys, is beautiful. How did you end up getting into this? I know like you did health and wellness. You went to school poli sci, mastered in counseling stuff and all the things. And then you were business coaching. And then how did you turn that into not only doing this inner work with people for people, but now training, certifying and blessing the world with more people that are doing this great, integrity filled work that you do.

Yeah.

It was in 2016 when I hired a relationship coach. I was in a six year relationship and first thing that she said to me that really pissed me off was, he's either going to come with you or he's not. And I was like, I hired you to help me, like heal this relationship. You're telling me it might not even work out. That was the first thing. Second thing was she asked me, you know, who did I have to earn more love from and how did I have to earn it? And I started crying and you know, all my perfectionist tendencies, walls were down, emotions were out at that point. And that opened me up to the rabbit hole, if you will, of subconscious, you know, of mindset work. Like more conscious based mindset work. From there I was like, oh, there's something deeper. There's more subconscious modalities. Oh, from there there's something deeper. There's trauma work, attachment repair work, all of that. And then just like going through it and facilitating it, kind of like learning. As I had went deeper into the integration process of it and then so many people that experienced it, I watched the ripple happen with all of them and then they wanted to take it to their clients. And so that brought on the certification piece of it. So I was kind of my gateway.

Into, you know, one of the things that I asked Aaron before we hit record, because I'm curious because like, we're very similar in a lot of ways that like private people, like our quiet time, all the things, and taking on an agency style coach certification kind of thing is energetically, like a lot of output. And you know, for those of you that are more introverted or even my enneagram fives out there, how did you reconcile your need for hoarding of energetic and informational resources versus putting it out into the world.

Yeah. Honestly, support, like, that was the. That was the biggest thing. And I. I let it just grow with me. That that is the biggest piece of it too, is like, I had to be okay with that. This thing is ever growing. And, you know, the first time we've ran it versus however many times it's been now, it's evolved along the way. And I've had to stop thinking that there was like an point to this. I'm like, okay, it's just going to keep growing. It's going to keep evolving. It's also that three line in human design, like that experimental. So I think that was the biggest thing. And then allowing the support in too.

So it's interesting that as an enneagram 5, somebody who doesn't necessarily love the emotional aspect of it and you. You've grown into this and really learned to embody this. Like, the gift of the enneagram 5 is the ability to disconnect energetically and emotionally. Do you believe that that is what makes you so gifted in holding space like you do for other people?

Yes, 1,000%. Because with the depth of where in which that we go, if I. If I couldn't. If I didn't do that, you'd be dead. I would be dead. Like, there would be. There would be no way. And I feel like too, like it helps my human as well. You know, the moments where I just want to be human and that, like, I feel like it. It. Not that it compartmentalizes things, but it helped just like.

But kind of you can. But yeah, same. Because I'm sure you get asked all the time. My best friend, she's like, I don't know how you do this day in and day out every day and love it and have more energy than anybody I know do people. Because I'm sure when you're certifying people, do you ever run across people and you're like, they're not going to cut it because they don't know how to energetically disconnect?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think to a lot of people, to what you were just saying, you know, we'll say like, how do you do all that? Like, as a. As a projector and not having all this energy. But I'm like, it is being able to like, you know, disconnect it. And I didn't always do that because I ran that like Rescuer Saver would take on all my clients, you know, stuff and wanted to fix and wanted to, you know, make sure they Got the result. And I had all that, you know, savior complex programming that wanted to happen too. I literally had to.

Yeah. And that's why the work that you do is so important. I mean, you and I probably study a lot of the same stuff about somatics and the body. The body never forgets and the body never lies. And it was in knowing and going through our own healing journey. Mine was in 2017, where my body was like, on death's door, like, literally and without. Like, I wouldn't wish it on anybody. And I'm sure you wouldn't either. That adrenal burnout and all of that chronic fatigue and all the other things that can compound that. I wouldn't wish it on anybody. But it was the greatest gift I ever got because not only did it give me compassion and empathy for myself and other people, but I also found it for the little girl in me that was always trying to prove her worth and being strong and taking on the world. And I know you, and it's where I really reconnected with little T in your body Breakdown. Is that where you really connected with little Aaron too?

Yeah, hands down.

So, like the number one thing that's why the work you do is so important is like, the body is the compass of everything you know before your heart and before your brain and even your instincts. Because instincts is just a reaction to what's happening. That intuition is in the body and in our spirit and in our soul. I applaud you so much for being brave to bring this inner work into entrepreneurship. Because it's not like people aren't raising their hands saying, yeah, I am a shit show, here's all my money. They want the strategy, right? And I love that you are being bold and saying you can't have one without the other. Otherwise it's not going to be sustainable or you're going to have some other things happening. Anybody that's listening right now, if you ever wanted to be a coach, I don't care what kind of coach that you want to be, please go do Aaron's certification first. That would be my greatest advice to any single person out there that desires to be a coach. Even if you already call yourself a coach, please be responsible and do her certification first. I can't express that enough how important this work is, bringing trauma informed stuff into any kind of business coaching or other kind of coaching. So where can people not only learn more about you, follow you sign up for certification. I know you got a wait list right now because you only open it at Certain times tell people what it looks like to work alongside and with you and learning from you.

Yeah.

You're amazing.

Thank you.

Thank you.

It's very like an attuned approach in.

The way, I mean anything, whether it's.

Working together, you know, through the certification, it's like you, you don't just get like the, here's my four step process to become.

I fucking hate it. Thank God.

Like everybody's so different and if you, if you don't, if you're not mirrored in like an attuned way, you don't.

Even know how to then facilitate that either. So it's like we're like learning, you know, okay, what is attunement? How do we help support and near each other? How do you provide a safe place? Like that's, I mean, the basis of the work and experiencing that. So healing. I don't know what, remember actually what your question was, but I.

It doesn't matter. Yeah, I think that that's really, really important.

So.

So you know, what would getting certified through your process and your system, what is, what will they walk away with for not only themselves, which you and I both know, like when you embody this like the way that you show up in your work, it's why you are super financially successful today because you walk your freaking talk. So for somebody that is like Tracy's telling me to go do this certification and they trust what I say, what will they walk away from with that personally and also professionally for their future. Yeah.

So it's broken down where you go first because we believe you gotta walk your talk. So it's like receive and then walking away with seven different certifications between hypnosis and life coaching through a trauma informed lens. With all of that and then the business support and being able to start, grow or see scale, everybody kind of comes in in different places for this. Your business through a trauma informed lens. So ensuring that you're being very supportive in your sales process, launching in a way that's attuned and actually feels good for you. Like that's kind of the process. So yes, you walk away with a lot of certifications, which is great, but you actually learn how to support people deeper, which is long lasting transformation for them. And like that's, I mean that's everything. That's your testimonials, your experience, all of it.

It builds credibility and trust and referral, like a referral hub. And I'm gonna tell you right now, the imposter syndrome won't creep in near as much because you know, you're in integrity, and honestly, you won't have to work as hard. You'll just work a lot smarter and in integrity, and you'll put your head down on the pillow at night knowing, you know what I'm doing, exactly what I'm supposed to be doing, in a way that not only, yeah, does it help me and my bottom line down the road, but you're doing really beautiful freaking work in the world. And, my dear, it is such an honor to watch you and refer people to you. You guys know I don't ever shout out anybody. Almost never. Not because I'm selfish or anything like that, but because I really won't steer anybody in a way that I wouldn't walk myself and I would line up right now to do work with you. You are remarkable. Where can people find you if they want to follow along and if they're like you and I and truly do really scope people out before they dive in, even though they're listening to me and they trust me, you know, you and I are still not the most trusting people. So where can they learn most about you? Or follow along?

I love that because I'm like, such a silent stalker. I won't like any of the things I watch everything, read everything that you do and collect for a while and be like, hi, I'm ready to work with you. And they're like, who are you exactly?

Like, I know when I get on a call with an enneagram5, they've already decided. They vetted me for months and months and months. They've already know all my shit. I love that. So that's why I said that, because I know, like, there are people who be like, click, buy. I'm in.

Yeah.

But then there's people like you and me. They're like, that's a hard pass. But where can they. Where can they stalk you?

Yes, you can stalk me.

At Erin Nicole coaching Energetics of Business podcast. I'm pretty much that everywhere you go.

Yeah. Energetics of Business podcast. You guys go check her out. You can listen to her for hours and hours and hours, which I highly recommend. She is a woman that is a trailblazer and walks her freaking talk. Go follow her right now. You can thank me later, my dear. I love you.

I love you.

Thank you.

Seriously, what a pleasure to just have you in my circle, in my life, and I can't wait to learn more from you. You teach me a lot in how you show up. So thank you as always, you guys. Please share this episode with somebody you know it will help. If anything, you know, let us know how this impacted your life, your heart. I know you enneagram fives out there really love when I bring in other fives because you you aren't out there very much so I love that we have a beautiful example of what a five stepping into their power looks like. And my goal is always to help you become the ultimate leader in your life so that you can can do what you were called and meant to do all along. All right you guys, we'll see you next time.

I'm so happy you enjoyed the Leadership Formula podcast. Please help us spread the word about this show by sharing it with a friend and leaving a written Apple podcast review. If you have any follow up questions to this episode, you can DM me directly directly on Instagram @tracee_o'.

Malley.

You can also find additional resources on my website@traceeomalley.com I'm excited to lead you into the next level of your life.