EP274: {Special Series} What it's like to be an Enneagram TWO - Heart, Mind and Soul with Heather Lisle-The Helper

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Welcome to the Leadership Formula podcast, where you will learn the secret sauce behind achieving massive success. I'm your host, Tracy o', Malley, multimillion dollar entrepreneur, your Enneagram expert, master performance coach, and mom to millennials. Do you want deep, meaningful relationships? To wake up every day with purpose and make money doing something you love? Well, you've landed in the right place. Every week, I will teach you how to get exactly what you want in life by strengthening your emotional intelligence. Using a combination of the Enneagram framework, live life coaching sessions, and real talk from yours truly, it's time to transform yourself into the ultimate leader of your life. Let's do this thing.

Hey. Hey, y'.

All.

Welcome back to another episode of the Leadership Formula podcast. We are continuing our series on what it's like to be each Enneagram type. And today I get to bring you one of my favorite twos of all time, Heather Lyle.

She is us.

She is a firecracker. Honestly, when I first met her, I think you might have thought you were an 8 or a 3, right? Is that kind of like.

Yeah, I thought I was a three, I think. Yeah.

Well, she's got big three energy, for sure, but the motive behind everything she does is all heart, all love. And that was really, really cool. When we first did a typing session, God, that was well over a year ago now, which was unbelievable. And we dove in, and I remember when we landed on the two for you, the emotions that came for you.

Holy moly. A flood. A flood of emotion. Yeah.

So Heather had just. I mean, we were in the middle of the pandemic, and she had. Right before the pandemic, you had left your corporate career where you were a big wig, right? You're like, you know, chief of Public Affairs.

I had a very fancy title.

There you go. Like, so she's a big deal, y', all, and left that to start her own business. And then a month later, boom, here comes the pandemic. And Covid to kind of throw a wrench into everything. And I know when I met you, like, your ego was having a really hard time with, like, how can I crush it over here to feel like I'm starting from, you know, like, kindergarten, Right. I know. I felt the same way with certain things, too. Like, I. I thought, like, if I can crush it there, this will be a piece of cake. And it usually isn't the case, right?

Yeah, usually. Not from my experience.

So let's talk about that first before we dive into, like, what. What the two has to do with all of that and why that might have been challenging and where, you know, being married and. And all the things and all of that. So what was it like? What was the defining force in making that decision? Because the two is so motivated by a desire and. And need to be appreciated and loved. And usually it takes a long time for two to leave a situation.

Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

So I'm assuming, like, you felt like you were being taken advantage of, like they didn't appreciate your gifts. Is that. Was that the driving force to make you leave that fancy job?

Well, I mean, truth. The fancy job, Actually, my husband was transferred to a different city three hours away. And so we had decided, okay, we're going to do this. But I thought, oh, you know, I left my job in good standing. I'm a great realtor. Relationships and that kind of thing. And I thought, oh, I mean, I'm only three hours away from where I had been working all this time, and people had hired me to come, you know, facilitate projects. And I was like, great, we can do this and that and it'll be easy. And then the pandemic happened, and then all the projects came to a swift close. And now I'm in Dallas, Texas, three hours away from my hometown, where I spent my entire professional adult life. And I don't know anybody down here. And now it's like, okay, this little business idea that I had, I was like, what the hell am I doing? This is not working. And now I've got all these kids at home and my husband's working from home. I have no spa. I mean, it was. And I felt so not appreciated for any, like, on any front. You know, it's like work. I was just. I was trying to, you know, the clients, the two clients that I had, you know, I was just pouring my heart and soul. Soul into it because it was the only thing that was giving me some joy, you know, because the joy sure as hell wasn't happening, you know, when I was just, you know, making breakfast, lunch, and dinner and emptying a dishwasher all damn day long. And no one ever said thank you for it. And it. It was such a roller coaster ride. And I know so many women in particular can completely understand exactly, you know, where I've been, because they've been there, too. And it's. That was such the kink in all of it was, oh, my go. But I was in this great big job where I had people. I mean, my schedule was booked every 15 minutes and people were thanking me for my time and wanted to be on my schedule and I felt like a big badass. And then that all changed. And so struggling. Gosh, we were talking earlier about ego and it's like it was a huge ego bust.

The thing that I noticed specifically for enneagram twos when the pandemic happened, it was a really good thing, but also a very eye opening thing, you know, aside from leaving that and moving somewhere three hours away from what you'd known and where people know you and professionally know you and people like celebrated you to three hours away, building from scratch in a home with preteens that doing the most thankless job. And the pandemic kind of took away your. Your sweet spot as an enneagram to being of service of others. When. When your identity is so about that, there's this void. Now here's the thing though. Like, it frees up your time to get within, which is what a 2 needs to do in order to be the helper at the greatest, highest level that isn't, you know, coming from fear or insecurity or unworthiness or shame or anything like that. So I know it got kind of messy there for a little bit. When, when we met, you were in the middle of the mess.

Oh, I was in the middle of all of the shame and unworthiness and, and you know, my people pleasing my codependency. I mean, hell, you were the one who told me to read the book Codependent no more. And I, and you're like, shut up. Like, oh shit, here we go. Oh my God, you know, page 11. I'm like, this is me. This is me. You know, it's like you're just, you're reaching for, you know, you're just reaching for branches. Just something to try to figure out, okay, who. Who am I again? And you know, frankly, it was our session that we had that it was a massive light bulb moment for me that, okay, okay, I need to swap from, you know, being the people pleaser and just. And hoping that people would acknowledge and appreciate me to okay, the only person that I can really please and appreciate, be appreciated is me. That's it. And so what do I need to do in order to feel fulfillment from that? And so it. And so much of that revolved around and shoot with that book and with my therapist and my sessions with you and so many boundaries that you have to establish. Because as a two, that's all we want to do is we want to be around people and love on people.

We're big lovers and master connectors. Like you guys make us all connected, which is your gift and is also your kryptonite.

Oh yeah, 100%. And so you know, really you and I were talking before we push record but getting really dialed in is to not only what my message is, but you know, what am I willing to accept and not accept and putting up firm boundaries from the get go on that.

Yeah. One of the hardest things for two and I think I may have even said this to you and I every two that I say this too. I get the gulp like oh shit. Like the, the filter that. And you'll always have to do this because your default is to say yes. If your calendar is open and you have the capabilities to air quote help, you automatically say yes.

Oh yeah.

Even when like you're not feeling it. But because your default is I want to be loved and appreciated. I can help. It has to be a yes. And then what happens is, is which is where kind of where you were at when I met you is when you over yes yourself. When something comes along that you actually are excited about and your calendar is booked or you're emotionally and physically depleted because of all the yes saying that's where the resentment comes in and then we become angry and have some martyr syndrome going on and get pissed and passive aggressive and all the things. So the filter that I ask every enneagram to before they automatically put their hand up and say I can do it. Yes. Is if nobody appreciated, thanked, acknowledged or reciprocated, would you say yes? Yeah. And when I when I asked to is they're usually like, oh shit, God, no.

Right?

Yes. And truth. You and I talked about that and that advice has really been a new limit for me just over the course of the past year. You know what really lights me up? Not just where am I going to get thanked and appreciated, but again, looking inwards and what's going to really fulfill me. Yeah.

Because then if, if you're doing what you want to and this is why saying no is awesome. Because you do have the time and solitude to discover what is for you. And so often when you guys take the time enneagram twos to discover that you feel safe, selfish, doing it, doing it.

Oh my God, 100%.

And here's the kicker though. You have to do that in order to be the highest level of a helper. If you're not doing it from the most fulfilling places, you are in codependency. Yeah. You're not actually helping anybody.

Right. Right. Not to put a financial spin on this too, but I kid you not.

Oh, I know you know what I'm.

Getting ready to say. But since I've gotten really clear about all of that, the past six months, I've made more money than what I had combined two years prior.

I know that's what happens when we come from a place of honor for ourselves. We can be in our gifts at a high, high level. You know, just like for you, you know, having to run it through the filter. Am I doing this to get something out of it or am I actually doing this because this is fulfilling and I want to and I have no expectations on the other side of it. I have to run it through a different kind of filter. But my default is to say, yeah, I can help you, because I like to show the world how strong I am. Right. But twos and eights, we sometimes we aren't helping anybody or protecting anyone, in my case, if we don't let people fall on their face sometimes, including ourselves.

Yeah.

So what would you say was the biggest aha for you as an enneagram2 that you recognized before? You used to kind of pull out the shame stick on yourself, but you converted it to like, okay, this is a self honoring kind of thing that I am going to work on.

I have always been, and I've always known this about myself. Even as a kid. I'm that relationship connector. In fact, my people that I've gotten to know here in the Dallas area, they call me the connector. I will find a connection. I will just figure it out, you know, And I've always been wired that way. And I think I've always kind of held that as a badge of honor because it's like, oh, I know I can help people if I'm able to connect those people together. And that kind of thing. And that's always made me feel good.

I have a question about that. Okay, so when you connect people and let's say, because I had a client, that it was funny, she was a natural connector. She was a three, though. But when she would connect them and she didn't get acknowledged for it, like, if they hit it off, she got really pissed off. She got really pissed off. I said, oh, then you're not connecting because you think they're a good fit. You're connecting them maybe from a place of I need to be valuable. I need to be the best connector.

Oh, very interesting. Have you ever had I call myself a catch and release girl? I just like to put people together and like, it's like, I'll send you an email I'll copy everybody and then I will say, you know, your next response, do not, do not CC me on this email. Like, just do, you know? Yeah, and I, I do. I feel good about that.

Good. Yeah. I love, I love that aspect about the twos. Now, where did you recognize where. Maybe you had some shame around that? Where were you. Where were you going with that?

Well, I think a lot of it just is centered around more codependency than anything.

Yeah.

You know, and, you know, wanting to feel that value, wanting to feel, and it's. That's. That's not a good place to be. And so that's where the shame kind of came in. It's like, okay, why. Why am I really doing this? What. You know, where. Where does this really stem from?

I've had to catch myself too, when it comes to being a mom to boys specifically. And I know you are. You know, the. The relationship I have with my daughter is very, very different. I think yours is similar too. But there's something.

That. That codependency trap is so sneaky. We don't even recognize it sometimes, where we end up enabling rather than helping or, you know, empowering them. I know when we were talking, this was a huge wow for you.

That was a huge wow for me. Yeah. So my little list who is 10, 10 and a. He would say he's 10 and a half right now, so technically he is.

But anyway, I'm 50 and a half, so.

Oh, the days when we used to count all that. But anyway, when we first moved to Dallas and it was pandemic, you know, throughout. It was July of 2020, he was such a empath. Loves, extroverted kid, loves to be around people. And we had been four months of, you know, living, or three months, you know, living all together inside this house with no human interaction. And he got really sick, long story short, and develop some. Lots of ulcer problems and all the. Just all these things, you know, needed counsel. It just needed all this, these things. And you know me as mama. I go into protective mama bear mode. And it's like, okay, I'm just going to put my arms around you. We're going to do this together. You know, I'm going to help you through this because that's what I felt. I mean, as a mama, that's what you feel like you need to do. And about a year ago, my husband, love him, but he sat me down, he was like, okay, here's the thing. I know why you did what you did in the beginning.

I get it.

Okay. We're going on two years now and you know, you're not serving. He's. I remember him telling me this. You are not serving, Vance, if you're continuing to take care of everything for him. He's not growing. He just knows that Mama Bear is going to take care of it all for him. And you're not, you're not helping him. You're really causing shame.

We like the thing that I have to drive into twos and myself as well. You know, eights can slip into this to flex, right. That we are chipping away at the confidence of the very people that we love and lead if we kind of swoop in and help in ways that don't serve their growth. And I know as a mom that was like, of course, I had this same epiphany this last weekend with my own son. And I teach this shit. It's very sneaky. But this beautiful, compassion filled, radical honesty that we meet ourselves with and knowing that you know where that came from, you know. Yes. That is your true nature. And there's a long history of you feeling like you need to prove your worth and your value.

Oh, absolutely.

Even to our own children sometimes. Right?

I know, I know. And it was, you know, husband and I had it long conversation about it and things have been a lot better. And I've really tried to help him grow up a little bit and have backed off and have helped let him make choices, let him make decisions, push him to do things that I know might be a hair uncomfortable for him, but I know it's like, dude, you're going to be entering middle school next year, man. Like you've got to be doing some things or else, like you're going to be made fun of. And this isn't healthy and I don't want that for you, but oh my goodness, it does. It gets sneaky, though. I mean, you just. It's under the veil of I love you, but is it really helpful for you? And so it's hard.

So you're married to an enneagram8. Yeah.

Yeah.

So I know, you know, my son is a two, I'm an eight. You know the dynamic, you know, sometimes when an eight delivers a message, especially to a two, it can. It can sting a lot.

It can sting a lot.

So for whether, whether somebody that's listening loves or leads an eight or loves or leads a two, whether they're an eight or not, what would you tell people is the most effective way to approach a hard conversation with a two where you can actually Receive the message.

Yeah. I have had to tell my husband on multiple occasions and still have to. Oh yeah, that because. And he's, you know, he's C suite level guy as well too. So it's, I mean he is in charge. He is big energy in charge. And I will have to remind him before having the conversation. Okay, here are the ground rules. I'm not your employee. Okay. I am your wife. And we talk, we. You're going to talk to me like is I'm someone that you love because I know that you do, but I just want to remind you that this is how we need to talk to each other. Okay. And I'm just very, I am. And it's so hard for me as a two. But this is something I've had to do with him as well too. I have really had to step up and meet him where he's at when it's with a hard conversation and go and just be very clear about, here's what's pissing me off. This, this, this. And I need for you to hear me and I need for you to acknowledge that I'm, I'm pissed. And we need to try to figure out what is the solution here. I've got a couple of ideas for some solutions. You know, with him in particular, it's like he does not. And most people are like this but you know, don't give me a problem without having some, some idea of what the solution could possibly, theoretically be. Right. And so, you know, I always come prepared with that with him. But we set ground rules and we remind each other of those ground rules. Because man, he's put some stingers in me before and I've told him, I'm like, I, that is going to immediately shut me down.

Even if the message is right, the delivery robs you of any kind of it landing.

Yes. And it's like, God, I mean you have to say that you have to, people have to be reminded. I mean we're all humans and we are all coming from a, you know, maybe he just walked out of a bad meeting or had a bad day or had an exchange with somebody that wasn't pleasant. And you know, I don't know where he, you know, where his head is and nor does he with me. And so when you go in, just level headed, take a breath, go, okay. I mean I, even with my clients, it's like, what is the one result that I want to achieve? What's the one thing that I want to get out of this conversation? And when you go at it like that versus all of the things. What's the one thing that we need to get clear on? And you talk about that from the get go. I mean we still have hard conversations and they can be brutal sometimes, but we're getting better.

That's that beautiful spot where we can find understanding and approaching conversations. Like, okay, I know they're not wired like me. How do they receive information best, especially when I have to deliver or you have to deliver some hard messaging, especially to our kids or to our spouses or partners or even closest friends. It's like I know that their biggest fear is this. So how can I deliver this message in a way that I don't traumatize them but also get the message across that helps grow them? Oh, 100%. It's so hard. It's a muscle we have to build. And the two muscle, the default is raise your hand, say yes if I can help. If I have the freedom, I'm going to say yes. That isn't always the right tool for the job. So we've talked about the wings before and you know you do lean very heavy into that three wing naturally because you are more of the social two, you know, which is kind of like always thinking about we as the collective. Like you'll self sacrifice before you. Yeah, that's, that's kind of your nature. And that social tool, the social two is often mistyped as a three or an eight. So I know you lean heavy into the three wing, but how do you use your wings when the default 2 is kind of of, you know, slowing down your process or keeping you from growing? How do you use the 1 and how to use the 3, would you say?

Oh gosh, you know, I think for me I really do, I lean into self awareness a lot. And it's like when I feel myself getting in the weeds with being a two, I really do try to think about how I can level the ship, so to speak, you know, how. And it takes, I don't know, maybe it's just because I've done the, done some work. Not as much as you have, but I've done a lot of work.

A lot. You've done a lot.

And it's gosh, I lean into where I am and how I'm feeling about things all throughout the day and how can I level out, you know, how, how can I prevent myself from getting too far one way or another? And it just takes so much awareness.

Well, because you're such a heart driven person and always will be and that's your Gift. Sometimes there's too much gray area. Right. And you give people a little too much freedom and slack. And so I know for twos, really using that one wing for like, let's straight shoot the facts here. Like black and white. We need some black and white facts without so much emotion tied to it.

And I have to do that. I have to lean into the one when I'm having conversations with my husband. I mean, and that's.

Oh for sure.

I have to because he's my fat, driven, big, you know, no fluffy language.

No fluffy language. Bottom line, me kind of guy. Yeah. So twos can kind of go off on over explaining sometimes because you want it to land in a way that the rest of us feel real warm and fuzzy about it. But when you're dealing with your husband, who's an 8, when I get fluffy language, I start assuming you're about to bullshit me.

Yes, yes. Or you have an agenda, which is why I default to. Okay, what's the one thing that we need to get out of this conversation?

Perfect.

You know, and so.

Yeah, I love it. So your stress number is the eight, which, you know, I know living with a two, when you're under stress and your husband may not be as self aware, it's like, get out the boxing gloves. We're gonna go toe to toe. Right. And I know, like for a two, when you get to that point, that's not your nature at all.

No.

And once you kind of hit it, that's usually where the shame comes because, you know, you got maybe a little snarky or a little sharp tongue. Right?

Yeah.

How do you use that knowledge today instead of pulling out the shame stick, but you use it as a compass. Like when you find yourself going into that eight zone, what is a pattern interrupt that you meet yourself with compassion to pull yourself out of it a little faster than maybe you did before.

Yeah, well, before I had no freaking clue. And so now it's. I'm just thinking about a recent thing that happened with my husband just a couple weeks ago, and I found myself cleaning. You're big jerk. And I don't like this. And I was, you know, talk about getting the boxing gloves out. I was ready to pound. I mean, I was. I was so pissed. And for me it's. And I never, you know, and funny. Funny enough beforehand, I would have felt a lot of shame and like, how dare you speak to your husband that way? Or whatever. And. And I'm like, well, okay, first of all, you know, a. We were privately sitting in the car together so there's nobody else around. And I'm big on. In fact, I told my husband just the other day, I do not like being around coup couples who bash each other. And like, I can't. Terrible.

Yeah.

I hate it.

It's.

It's so not good for everybody. And so I will have those private conversations with him and when I do get a little sharp, toned about something because he'll, he'll be like, where did that come from? You know, you're not that person. And I'm like, well, you push me too far. You push me too far. And I'm not apologetic about it anymore. I'm a person, I'm a human. And it's like, no when. And again, you have to have those conversations when you push it too far. How I feel, I feel threatened and I feel like I've got to put my guard up immediately. And so in order for us to not go there and for me to not want to box your head in, you know, I need, I need for you to dial back a little bit. You need to have some awareness. Yeah. It's just, oh my God. But yeah, anymore. It's just, that's just when I get pushed to a certain, you know, when you get pushed into a corner, you're gonna have reactions and that's human nature, you know.

What would you say your greatest gift is as a two and a high performing, high achieving woman? What do you think is your greatest gift as a two and the biggest challenge that you face as a high achieving professional woman? As a two I think, yeah, I.

Think the biggest gift of it all is I am a really good connector of people. Yeah. And I love people. I love people people and, and I love connecting people that I feel like are heart centered as well too. You can be a different style for me, but I can catch on pretty quick if, if you're genuine and authentic and, and full of heart as well. Right. So I think that is definitely. I think that's my superpower, actually.

Well, honestly, from somebody who has been exposed to you, like the warmth and the genuine nature of you, there's like, it's genuine. There's no bullshit with you as far as the heart. Where a lot of times, you know, if twos are really dysfunctional, sometimes they can like over compliment people. Yeah, you don't. You do it. And it's so genuine and it does make people feel like, okay, I'm safe with her. And that's awesome. I'm sure as a mom, your kids feel that too. So what's your biggest challenge then? What's your biggest challenge?

You know, I think the biggest challenge for me is. And it's so interesting. My husband and I have talked about this, and he's like, okay, don't dog yourself about this, because sometimes this happens. I over Trust. I over. You know, I will. I'm gonna love you first and trust but verify.

Like, you guys need to trust but verify.

And I have had some hard lessons over the past 18 months with that and lost some money and did. Made some wrong decisions. And because I. I trusted, and I. I was just like, oh, my God. You know, I. I'm. I'm really feeling it with this person. I really love this. And then it turned out to be not what it was. And so the whole trust and verify. I love that because. Yeah, that's been something that has. That I've had to work through this past year, for sure.

Yeah, that's, like the key for a two, especially a lot of types, but especially the two, because you do trust. Trust beautifully and easy. That is your gift and can also bite you in the ass.

Oh, Lord. Yeah.

What do you think is the most misunderstood thing about enneagram twos from your experience?

I can tell you right here, right now, the most misunderstood thing about the two is that. And I think for a woman in particular, is because we love big. I mean, I. I tell people that I text my friends all, I love you big. Love you big. That's my. That's my catchphrase. I think that that can be misunderstood as not being taken seriously, that you're. What's the word that I'm looking for.

That you're too much over.

Oh, too much. Too much. Or can be a pushover. Because, I mean, I think it can go either way. It's like, you're too much. I've been told that several times as well, too. But, yeah, that's been. That's been a challenge as well.

What else do you think is a challenge that people misunderstand, choose for.

I don't know if I have. If there's anything more I can think of about that. I can list off so many situations I've been in where, again, I've been told too much or, you know, it's just.

Have you ever been told you're too nice?

Oh, my God, yeah.

Yeah.

And I think. I think men in particular think of too nice and too much as you're flighty and your ems be stupid or something. And so far from the truth, it's like, this is just this. This is me.

This is how I am, my son. I've said that I don't say that to him anymore, but because I can see where he might be over trusting. And I'll be like, you're too nice. He goes, mom, and this is like, I love that he stepped into this. He's like, I am always going to be kind, and I will always be genuine, and I will always be nice. Don't think I don't see. See what's going on. I'm like, oh, my gosh.

I will never, ever have you again.

You know, Tracy, it's so funny that you say that, because I have been told again, you're too nice. You're too this. And I so badly want, you know, the people who tell me that, of course I just write them off. You know, I am the type. I told my husband this just last night. It's like, you piss me off. You take advantage of my niceness, my kind, my genuineness. You take advantage of that like, you're dead to me. Me, I will smile. But I know. I know where we are. And so it's. You know, I think that's the other thing about two as well, is that at least for me, I will give you everything. But if I feel. If I feel like you're taking advantage of it, there will be no more ever again.

What is the greatest advice you can give to somebody that's listening, that is a two or somebody that is loving or leading or parenting? A two, would you say? Yeah, for those that are two, the greatest advice, and those that maybe love you guys.

I think that those who love twos need to be aware of the fact that they do love big. You know, they are going to give you their all. And don't take advantage of that. Don't try to hit them when they're down, because that's gonna. That's gonna suck even worse. You know, I mean, if there's. And my husband and I've had those conversations, too, and it's like when I'm already feeling like crap about something, and then he'll like, dude, how is that helpful to me? Like, how. No, you know what I mean? So it's just. Don't kick them when they're down because they're already beating themselves up as it is in the first place. Right?

Yeah. There's nobody that's harder that harder on a two than the two themselves.

Oh, my God. No.

Like, I don't need to say a damn word. My son's kind of in that zone. I'm like, he knows that I know and nothing has to be said.

No, no, no. I remember as a kid growing up, my dad. My dad and I have a very tight relationship and I'm the oldest and whenever I would come home with a bad grade or something happened or whatever, he never had to say a damn thing to me about it. And the older that I got, I remember asking like, how come we never talked about this? And he was like, well, what more did you want me to say to make you feel. I mean, you were already. You're already beating yourself up. Nothing more that I was going to say was going to make you get any better or worse. I mean, it's, you know, anyway, so don't kick them under down. And then the other piece of advice, what was the other thing that was supposed to.

The advice for the twos that are listening if they feel like they're on the struggle bus.

You know, I say lean into the fact that you're an incredible relationship and connector person. You know, lean into that. But I love what you said, you know, earlier about trust and verify. Trust and verify. I think those are.

Ronald Reagan said that originally. That is not a Tracy o'.

Malley. O'. Malley.

That is a Ronald Reagan quote. I won't take credit for that one. I love it.

But I do think twos need to be reminded to trust and verify. I really do. Because you will lose money, you will lose clients, you will lose people in your life and just trust and verify.

Just say you'll lose your self respect sometimes too, A hundred percent. So you work in the marketing space and you know, like you said, you've gone off on your own and you help professionals and businesses do marketing and messaging. Where can people find you if they want to learn more about you and what you do and find this beautiful two center, two heart centered business owner.

I tell everybody just go to my website heatherlisle.com and that's Lyle is spelled L I S as in SAM L E. So heatherlisle.com I tell everybody, you know, who gets on the phone with me and people I meet in person. It's like I'm a messaging person. So you know, Tracy, you are the enneagram guru. I use this profile to help my people understand their communication style and how they're going to communicate to their perfect client. Because if your messaging isn't, isn't, you know, spot on if you don't know who you're talking to and what they need to hear from you in order to elicit a certain response. Your marketing is for not and so anyway.

But that's.

And that's. That's where you can find me.

She's got a great podcast also called Money Making Marketing. You guys should check it out. You, my love, you are so beautiful. I'm so honored and grateful to have met you and to be surrounded by your beautiful heart and two energy. Two is my growth number. So I love having beautiful two role models in my life to show me what the holy grail is for me. Me and you do it probably better than anybody next to my son in my life as far as the twos go. So I'm so honored that you were sharing your heart and your soul for our community here.

Well, I tell you what, if it weren't for you, I probably wouldn't be here.

So I don't know about that.

But you, you opened some doors to my life. I don't want to get all weepy here, but man, Game changer Tracy o'. Malley. Hashtag game changer. I love you girl.

Thanks for being on and sharing your love and light for the rest of the world to see. We need more of you.

Absolutely. Thank you for having me.

I'm so happy you enjoyed the Leadership Formula podcast. Please help us spread the word about this show by sharing it with a friend and leaving a written Apple podcast review. If you have any follow up questions to this episode, you can DM me directly on Instagram @Traffic. Traceyomalli. You can also find additional resources on my website@tracyomalley.com I'm excited to lead you into the next level of your life.