EP276: {Special Series} What it's Like to be an Enneagram Three - Heart, Mind, and Soul with Seena Ghetmiri - The Achiever

Welcome to the Leadership Formula podcast, where you will learn the secret sauce behind achieving massive success. I'm your host, Tracy o', Malley, multimillion dollar entrepreneur, your Enneagram expert, master performance coach, and mom to millennials. Do you want deep, meaningful relationships? To wake up every day with purpose and make money doing something you love? Well, you've landed in the right place. Every week, I will teach you how to get exactly what you want in life by strengthening your emotional intelligence. Using a combination of the Enneagram framework, live life coaching sessions, and real talk from yours truly. It's time to transform yourself into the ultimate leader of your life.

Let's do this thing.

Hello, and welcome back to another episode of the Leadership Formula podcast. And we are continuing the series on what it's like to be this Enneagram type. And today, we are talking about the Enneagram 3, the competitive achiever. And I know if you are like me and you're not a three, you wish you were. I say it probably three to four times a week. Damn it. I wish I was an enneagram 3. Because they have this beautiful ability to see a goal, set a goal, and then crush the freaking goal, and they make it look effortless. And once they're done, they don't waste a lot of time before they move on to the next goal and then rinse and repeat. But there is a dark side to this. And when I was putting together this series, I was so excited and I'm so grateful that my. One of my best friends in the world, Sina Get Marry is my favorite enneagram3 in the world. And there was nobody else. I really wanted to show you kind of underneath the hood of what it's like to be an enneagram3. So. Sina. Hi, honey.

Hi. So excited to be here. I love that you're talking about this and the other sides of it being a three. And that's something that I've been trying to be more open about as a three.

Yeah. And which, you know, what's funny about that is the three gets the bad rap of, you know, out of all the Enneagram types, they have the ability to be a chameleon. They even get the shitty rap of being a little fake from time to time. And it's not like, necessarily because they're fronting, but what the world sees you as and how you're received in the world is one of, like, your love languages.

Yeah.

You're what, 33?

33.

33 years old. We've been friends for gosh about two years now.

Two years now.

And I remember when I met Keish, your wife, she's Ms. Enneagram lover as well. She's a seven year, a three. And I hadn't gotten to know you yet, but when I met you, I was like, oh, I love you so much. And I could see, like, the thing about threes is most of my life, before I really knew what the enneagram was, so 40 years of my life, you guys were the ones I judged so harshly. And I know it was because of my own envy, because you do make things look easy. When did you kind of know in your life that, you know, what you do, what you achieve and how you appear in the world was like at the forefront, motivator of everything that you do. How far back do you really recognize that?

Yeah, I think I credit it going back to probably, like the early college days where I really understood my drive and what I wanted to do. I was kind of in high school. I wasn't like a super motivated person. I just hadn't found my lane. And then when I. When I got into college, I decided to pursue dentistry, partially influenced from family pressures of achieving and like, Middle Eastern family, that you gotta be a lawyer doctor. That status symbol was always kind of ingrained in me from a young age. I saw it a lot with my. My family, my uncles, and kind of what they pushed on us as kids, not in a harmful way, more of like they wanted the best for us. So that was always there. But it really hit me where I decided to take action and really chase something more from a status symbol was in college and I decided to go into dentistry.

So this whole thing with the Enneagram, I believe, and I will go to my grave saying this, that it's like nature and nurture, kind of this perfect storm of this is how we're naturally wired. Then we're dropped into these environments and situations and families and so schools and whatever. That kind of really have a huge impact on how that gets expressed. So I know that you kind of believe that too, because you are naturally wired that way. Where in your life is when it wasn't status, but where in your life did you recognize that that pressure you put on yourself naturally even?

Yeah, it was probably more when I was in dental school, I would say I was like, really? Or right before trying to get in, I guess right before I put that pressure, like, I have to do this no matter what. And that it was that pressure of like, I have to have this. And now I recognize it as chasing that status symbol to some point, because I got rejected the first year from dental school, I'm like, doesn't matter. I'm doing whatever I can to get in the next year. And I never really stopped to think of, like, maybe I could do something else. It was just, like, I put that pressure on of it's going to happen.

Oh, so you didn't take it as a sign that this is not meant to be? You're like, oh, fuck, no. I'm gonna do whatever it takes to make that happen.

Oh, yeah. To the point of, like, I gotta get the goal. And it's like, I never even questioned the goal after that. Like, maybe I should look at something else. So I put that pressure, and obviously my wife Keisha, very involved and helped with that of. Of encouraging me. And. And I didn't take it as a sign of like, oh, you can't do this. I go, I'm gonna show you. Like, I'm gonna get in and. And do this, and I'm going to do it the best. Like, how do I become the best applicant for the next year? Like, I'm going to retake the test and do better. I'm going to get the most shadowing hours I can get and put that pressure. Like, I'm going to get in and I'm going to graduate.

So obviously, being married to an enneagram7, you guys been together 14 years at this point. So, you know, from that college age on, you know, living with an enneagram 7 really opens up your mind to, like, anything's possible, which is their gift and also what drives us creating crazy about them, right?

Yeah.

But before being in a relationship with somebody like that, who's like, anything's possible. How did you navigate or did you even let your head or heart go to other places other than this is the goal. I'm not wavering. See it, hit it, crush it. Next.

I never went there, to be honest. It's with the way growing up. And I'm not going to say that I had the most pressure from my family, because I know there's a lot of cultures out there that do put more pressure on their kids, but it was never a conversation of, what do you enjoy doing. It's like, what are you going to do that respected quote unquote in the world? And not. Not really a conversation around, what do you, like, like, what could you. What, like, open up your mind to other things, too? It's very just, like, linear. You do this, this and this, and you do one of These kind of paths.

Do you ever remember a time where, like, you had this imagination or dreaming of anything that wasn't, like, successful? Like, even as a little boy, do you ever remember or even if you had a tinge of it, would you just shut it down? And it's like, that's not the path.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, definitely. As a kid, it was, you know, I wanted to be a baseball player. I played it my whole life. And like, just being silly as a kid and in the backyard pretending like you're your favorite baseball player, much lighter. And that was definitely there. But later on in life, it kind of fades. Cause you get so focused. And I've. I've kind of explained this before too, is when you get into dentistry and that path, it's. It's, you know, four years undergrad, four years postgrad. It's a long journey. And you have to be so laser focused, otherwise you're not gonna make it through. You're not gonna get in, and you're not gonna make it through the program. But what happens is you have blinders on and you're not even able to look around and see what else is out there. You change from when you're 22 to 28, huge change. And I. I find that as a problem. Some of those more lawyers, engineers stuff that takes so long to get into.

Yeah.

What happens, and I'm seeing it more, is people come out the other side and they're like, wait, it's not what I want. And there's more enneagram threes in those types of fields. And I'm glad there is, because, you know, they really. They're diligent about their work and they. They really want to be the best, and that, that helps. Obviously you want your doctor to really want to be the best doctor. Um, but I see it a lot now. I recently left dentistry last year, and classmates reaching out of, like, yeah, I don't want to do this either. And it's not a conversation when you're in school or getting there to even think about that. And it mostly comes from the program of being so laser focused.

Right. That is what any other enneagram type probably envies about you guys the most, is your natural ability to put the blinders on and, like, head down. Go for it. Because I will. I can. But then the minute I get a tug for something that I know, like, instinctually, because I'm more instinctual, like, God damn it. Like, seriously, seriously right now, I'm going to get distracted. Although those blinders are Your superpower. They are also the thing that takes threes out. Not just when you end up in a career that you've spent your entire 20s working towards, but a lot of times, body burnout, relationship burnout. In what ways for you have the blinders been the kryptonite in your life?

I'll do it from a couple angles. So from a career perspective, like I was just mentioning, I didn't really look around and I didn't even question if dentistry was my best suited, best suited for me as my skill set. Yes, I'm an enneagram3, but that just means I can achieve in anything. And now I'm recognizing a lot of that was status driven of being a doctor, being a dentist. And that wears off real fast when you're, when you're out in the real world, but when you're trying to get there, you're like, yes, that's like the Mecca. I want to get there. And I remember graduating be like, oh, now the easy stuff starts. And it's like the total opposite. It gets way harder because you're in like real life and, and doing it. So it hindered me in that sense, really trying to hone in on what my best, how I can use my skills for the best and enjoy what I'm doing. And like you were mentioning earlier, the Enneagram 7 is living with one, my wife. I just seeing her love her days and her job and not every day is the best, but like, she loves what she does. And that just wasn't a conversation in my head. And then as time went on, I'm like, maybe this isn't the best thing for me. And then you start opening up, taking off those blinders and seeing what could be as far as like relationships. One thing, that narrow focus that like honing in on one thing. Give you an example, even just the other day, I was on the phone with the bank and trying to just figure something out. They had like something on the account and I'm calling and they're transferring me to all these different things. And K and I were supposed to go grab some takeout and go on a walk and do all that. I was like, hold on, hold on, let me just get this done. Cause I was so, like stuck on it. I was like, let me just find the right person to just get this stupid thing fixed on our account. And it hinders me and I just can't take my mind off it. Once I kind of get stuck on that path where we were supposed to go on a walk and do all that. But I got stuck on this. And she's like, you're just gonna end up having to go in there anyways into the branch on Monday morning. These guys are just passing around. I was like, no, no, no. Just like, wait, like I can get it done. And she was right. And now I got to go in there to the branch and get it all fixed. But I think that's one area where, like, in relationships that can affect the other person is me being that kind of focused.

Yeah. And thankfully, like, she has enough self awareness to understand what's going on. But I know for probably 15 years ago that she would have been like, well, fine, I'm out of here, or whatever. Resentment and anger and not feeling important or right. What about for your health? How has it affected your health?

Yeah, it's great. When I'm in the. I'm just more like an all or nothing and I need to find a balance on that, especially when it comes to health. Because health is a balance. There's been seasons of extreme focus on it, and obviously there's results. It's really hard to do that for long periods of time.

When you're in workaholic mode, does your health usually take a backseat?

You know, not too bad, to be honest. It's. When I'm in non workaholic mode, I see it the worst, actually.

Okay, so when you go to that unhealthy nine.

Yes. That's where I see the health slip a lot more. When, you know we're moving, you hit.

Burnout because you've hit burnout all across the board.

It's kind of like, well, it doesn't really matter. Nothing else is kind of going right. But when we're in, like, kind of go mode and we're aligned, like kind of the season we're in now, the health becomes more important and a priority rather than kind of when I'm in that nine mode of, well, you just let things slip more.

Right. You talked about, you know, getting through dental school and then getting in the real world, doing the job. How fast into it did you realize, oh, shit.

If I was being honest with myself, it should have been the first year. But I wrote off a lot of it to being new and, you know, oh, I just got to earn my stripes. I just got to power through this beginning stage and it'll get better, which there's some truth to that I think you should try. You know, I did a few. I did a few different clinics to try out different types, but it was actually, when I was in the most ideal scenario. I was honest with myself when it was actually pretty. Pretty cush. Like, I had a great clinic and a great, great pay, great hours, everything I wanted in a clinic. And that's when it was. It really hit me of, oh, this isn't it. Because I was confined in a box and like, this is it for the next 30 years. I was like, that can't be it for me.

And so how do you reconcile that as a 3? Knowing like this is a status and knowing not just status in the world, but hardcore in your family? I mean, at this point, I mean, I know you don't mind me saying this, but your family has said, can I still call you a dentist since you actually did it?

Yeah.

Instead of what you are today, which is a real estate investor and all of that. Like, that's how strong, not only is that drive for you, but culturally as well.

Yeah. Oh, it's very real.

So how do you reconcile that when you're sitting there at the cush? Like, the most opportune, like, ideal way, if you were to be a dentist, you are, and you're like, fuck, yeah, it's tough.

You have a lot of guilt run through your head of you've done something for. So you got. You spent so long getting here, so much money to get there with schooling, and that's hard enough. And then it's almost leaving that position to start over in something new. It's tougher. An enneagram 3. Cause you don't have. I would almost, you know, you get to meet someone at a. At a party or at dinner, and oh, I'm a dentist. You get this, like, instant credibility. And as a three, it's awesome. But deep down I knew it didn't feel right. Like, it didn't fulfill me in the way it should. But at least it. It hit that spot that was like. Well, at least I can say that at a. When I meet someone new, like, I'm a dentist. Like, it. It holds some weight to it.

Sure. Do you even ever mention that in conversation anymore?

We use it in a lighter way of like, as a joke. Like, I used to be a dentist and now I'm doing, like, real estate. And I actually want to show that more. Not from a. More of an inspiration that you can switch out of something because you hear some people can move job to job, but hearing you left a career, like, I understand it, it holds some weight and I'd rather just show it in a way that you can be an inspiration to someone else.

Not Just that. But like the expectations of outside people, places and things, the time invested. And we do this not just in careers, but also freaking relationships as well. And I see a lot of enneagram threes, especially if, like, the image of this relationship is well received amongst the world and the friend groups that a lot of times, you know, shenanigans will go on just to maintain that image as well. Yeah, I know. Like, it was in April of 2021 that you actually for the first time said it out loud to your wife.

Yeah.

How hard was that to even have come out of your mouth, even to her? A safe place. She was with me. I think she was with me when that conversation was happening. Right.

Yeah. You know, for us it was. It was actually pretty easy. I feel safe with her. I tell her anything going through my mind. I think the harder part was coming to that realization for myself and telling myself. And obviously, you know, telling my family was harder.

Yeah, yeah. So you're telling yourself this and you're telling her this, and of course she's like the ultimate hype girl. Like, of course. No problem.

Yeah.

How ready were you to call it, like, in the real world and say, I'm out.

And that goes back to the all or nothing personality that I have. It's like the good thing. So looking back now, ideally, if a trans. Transitions are a lot smoother. If you ease your way out. Going through what we went through this last year, and the transitioning period of something as abrupt like. As abrupt like that as a enneagram3is, comes with its own challenges. You know, some people say just jump and the net will appear. You know, I don't think that's the best suited advice for an enneagram 3 sometimes, but for me, it probably was. For you it was. Otherwise, I just like to rip the band aid and go. And so it was pretty quick.

Well, I think for enneagram threes, like, you can build a case in your head of why it's a bad idea, especially if you have accolades and Atta boys and ego and all that other stuff. If you wait too long and you don't rip the band aid, you'll convince yourself why it's a very bad idea. Yeah, right. So it's so like, I've told you this before, like, you and my son are like identical in so many ways. And he's a rip the band aid off kind of guy and, like, blows the entire thing up. I'm like, okay, okay. And although there's this like, fuck, yeah. That comes with that. And I know you felt like the empowered part of you and the freedom. And, yes, I'm gonna do it. But like you said, then you're confronted with being the new kid on the block. I don't know shit about this. I know. I'll. You know, you have enough wisdom and receipts to show that you'll crush it.

Yeah.

But being the new kid on the block and learning something from scratch that you've never, ever learned before really does a number on you.

Yeah.

So I know kind of what it was like because I was with you guys a lot during that time.

Yeah. You are crucial during that time.

So let. If you are okay doing this, let people into what that looked like. Like, in real time when you're in that pit. Cause you really were.

Yeah. And I appreciate you opening up that space. Cause I do want to share that it was hard. The immediate reaction is excitement and just like, f. Yeah, let's go. But the way it worked out was you jump. And then when. Shortly after we found out my dad was sick. So we went up and we were there for him during that season. So we're mixing something. Leaving a career a few weeks later, then being with my father during the last months of his life, then coming back after that. And now we're dealing with a new career, trying to figure out what we're doing because some grief mixed in.

Yeah.

And an enneagram 3 that's starting over from nothing, essentially of trying to build out a new career. And.

And you don't love the feelings of grief on top of it, like.

Right.

The whole thing down.

Right. Yeah. And we want to move through that as fast as we can, but you don't get to control it. You can do some things to help, but everyone's on their own pace with that. So, you know, I explained it to. To case my wife. Like, I felt like I got dropped in an ocean. I'm a good swimmer, but I don't know which way to swim. And you're kind of really just starting in that beginning place and feeling like you have all this potential, but you have to work through it and figure out what you want to do. The excitement wears off because then you hit with reality of like, oh, man, I can't rely on my accolades or my title anything. So for. For me, that. That was pretty hard to. To begin navigating.

So, you know, I know that living with the supreme optimist. She also. This is where you two are a lot alike is like, neither one of you love to linger in the hard Feelings for very long. And I've said this about threes, and every time I do workshops and I'm explaining, the enneagram 3 is that when a 3 is in a dark place, almost nobody will ever see it except the person that lives with them. And when you're living with somebody who doesn't love the. The harder parts, and especially when we don't know how long that hard part is going to last. Did you find yourself trying to mask it even more because you knew you were affecting her?

Oh, totally. I mean, you know, my best friend, my wife, like, I. I wanted to. You just can only mask it for so long.

Yeah.

When your body has like a physical reaction to what you're going through. And, you know, as a three, it's not. You don't want to show that. But what I found is just being more honest with yourself and then also just sharing. That was actually the way to start. Kind of move through it a little faster because we tried to mask it for a couple months and then it came up, you know, that you were there. It smacked us in the face. Like, you can't. And I think, you know, that enneagram3 tendency to show the world everything's okay is a good thing too, but in times can hinder you from really moving through some things.

So when you were talking about the physical response your body was having to it, like, I think for people that aren't threes, we really like. I get it, because obviously. But I think a lot of people have a hard time really grasping what that might like, two or three. So what was like the physical response when you were in that nine zone? What does that look like?

Yeah, it was a ton of.

For those that live with a three.

Especially, yeah, it was a lot of internal anxiety, which I've never had a problem with. You know, I've. I've gone through school, done a ton of testing and stuff, and high pressure situations where you get a little nervous. But this was like a body reaction to. Yeah, to being. You know, it was grief and leaving two things. Right. Like losing a parent and losing a career or something. A status symbol that you've worked towards for a decade all coming in at once. And that bodily feeling was something that I've never felt. You know, Keisha's never seen me like that, so she doesn't know what that looks like. And we're kind of like, what is wrong? Like, how do we. And you couldn't mental your way out of it. That was the hardest part. And as a three, like, I can mental my way through anything to get out the other side. And this was the first time where that didn't happen.

Yeah. I remember talking to both of you and, like, she wants to like, okay, what do we have to do? Like, positive poly, like, and from all the right intentions. Right, of course. And you, of course, like, yeah, I want to get through this too, but it's like you're stuck in that quicksand. And, you know, for an Enneagram 3, your growth number is actually the Enneagram 6, as you know. And that means, like, slowing down, strategizing, troubleshooting, which none of that feels remotely good to an enneagram3.

No.

So what were some of the things that you did? I know, like, picking up the phone and calling me was one of the troubleshooting things. Not saying that I'm an end all, be all, but I definitely know, like, I can help put perspective on this. What other things were some troubleshooting or slowing down, strategizing things that you did to help not rush yourself through the process, but feel your way through the process and honor yourself along the way.

Yeah. I think what helped a lot was just honoring the emotions and identifying and putting a label on it. Like, oh, this is that coming up, you know, and knowing that not every day or every part of the day is always going to feel like that. Like, there'll be some days that are better than others, but you're not going to be able to control everything. And that's hard to, like.

Get over.

Trust me. I know.

But it almost. It almost took the power away from it. And it was like, okay, that's fine. We noticed it coming up. We came up with some things that we did, you know, going on a walk and just talking about. Or maybe we just had a day where we didn't do anything. You changed the goals. Don't. You don't have to crush it, you know, every single day to be the most. Maximum amount of productivity for that day in that season. Right. Like, we just identified the season. Isn't that the season is. Let's be kind to ourselves for both of us, and how do we still honor it, but still, you know, take care of ourself and make sure that we're still making some progress, but not forcing it too much where we're not gonna work through it. Does that make sense?

I was thinking back to one of my favorite conversations with you guys, and you in particular, when this was getting really messy for you, and it was like, God, I don't like sucking at Anything. I don't know what to do. And one of the suggestions I had for. And of course, there was a method to my madness. I was like, well, you could totally get a job in this realm and be amazing. Almost like feeding, dangling that carrot. And for five seconds you considered it.

Yeah. You and Keshe both had that idea, like, oh, just go get a job. So one thing I want to touch on is when you move to that, like, when you move out of. When I moved out of it, that that also mixed in not having structure. Like.

Right.

For 10 years I had. I knew what the next day was, what the next test was at, what, you know, okay. Like, I knew everything for the next 10 years. It was a very linear path. And then moving into this open world of figuring it out is very difficult for me at least. But I almost think for most enneagram threes, not that we can't figure it out, it just that abrupt change was.

Like, oh, yeah, there's no measurables to indicate that you're crushing it. So.

Right. So how do I know if I did everything I'm supposed to? Like, what do I do today? Like, what does a real estate investor do today? Like, what? Like, people say that a lot, but, like, you know, you got to figure it out. And we're definitely figuring out now of like, oh, all these little things you have to do. But yeah, so there was a point where it was getting so bad of, like, that unstructuredness and like, well, what if we just added in a job, found this, like, real estate company that had a job opening for something that would be really beneficial for me learning about real estate investing. I was like, I'll work that for a little bit, and then once we build our own stuff out more, then I'll go full time with that. It's going to be great. And both you and Keshe, would you dangle that out of almost like, how bad do you want to do this? Is this right for you? So I kind of started down that path and like, wait, no, this. This is. I might as well just go back to dentistry at this point. Like, if that's the case, like, this isn't going to help me get to where I want to go, but it was almost like it would have been a band aid solution for the moment.

Exactly. And like, one of the things that is something that the filter that an enneagram3 really has to run things through. And I'll explain, like, how to do this with you in a second. You already know what you Do. But, like, just because you can and you would crush it doesn't mean you should. But, like, that ego is salivating sometimes.

Yep.

Like, oh, I can totally come in and dominate. And I have to do it with like, being the strong girl because I. That's my, like, hot button. It's like, ooh, I can flex right now. Are you kidding me? Like, that'd be amazing. Yeah, but just because you can doesn't mean you always should. But if you're left to your three ways, it will default to that every time. Every time. So that being said, knowing that the three in you, like the default, is always going to be, see the goal, hit the goal, be the best, crush it. This is how I need to appear in the world without any other tools in the three toolbox. That's what you will do every time.

Yeah, totally.

And knowing that, it's like, oh, okay, we're just going to always have to kind of like, keep your thumb on the pulse with that. And one of the ways that I know you do it, and I kind of teach people too, is with the wings, like the 2 and the 4. Are the wings accessible to the Enneagram 3? I do see you lean heavy into the 2 in a lot of ways. What ways do you use the two, would you say? In a positive, healthy way today?

Yeah, I think one thing I, I want, I try to work on is I can tend to when I get hyper focused, drown out some relationships or friendships. So I try to remember to lean into that too, of like bringing people together, community, relationships, like focusing on that and not getting too siloed in. I think probably the biggest way I.

Would use that wing, and you use it beautifully. Like, obviously with some of the people pleasing and the family stuff, I could see you using it in like the not so great ways. But, you know, being part of your wedding and seeing the friendships you guys have built over the 14 years together, it's very evident, like, connection, relationships, empathy. Like, that is one of your love languages. And you, you execute that, and not even just execute it, but like, you embody that so beautifully in a healthy way today. Now, the real flex for the enneagram 3 is not just because a lot of Enneagram threes I have seen do this. Tell me if this has ever rung true for you, is when you understand the human component of this and know that you need people to crush goals. A lot of times I've seen threes manipulate that two wing in a way to get people on board with their thing and then Once the goal's over or they've achieved it, like, they leave those people behind. Was there ever a point that you've done that in your life that you recognize today?

Yeah, I think my mindset back in dental days and pre dental days was that's a very competitive environment when you. When you mix all those people together. A lot of enneagram threes, competitive students that want to get in, and you kind of cling on to, like, ooh, what do you know? How can I use you to, like.

Yeah.

Not in, like, a malicious way. Just, like, it's just not even conscious.

It's not even conscious thing.

Yeah. And I think that's now transitioned to something that feels a lot better of. And especially in the real estate world. I don't know other professions, but it's very giving. The people are very nice and forthcoming with information and truly want to. At least people we've met want to help each other.

Yeah, well. Yeah, well, because that's. Because you radiate that. It's not always like that.

Right. So maybe putting that out there of, like, just being. Just coming in as a new people in the space. We're just giving and very Trying to make connections and don't have, like, an ulterior motive. I guess things start happening more when that's the case, which is ironic. But that feels a lot better for me.

Totally. Because, you know, like, even when it wasn't a conscious thing, like, our body knows when we're being manipulative, even if we don't consciously know it, and it never feels good. But when you are coming from that genuine, authentic place that you are, like, you're right. It does get easier. It does feel more fulfilling, and it feels freaking amazing, and things move really fast.

Yeah.

So the real flex for the three is not just leaning into the two wing, but really going over to that four wing, which is the individualist. And, like, you know, the four, you're not motivated like this, but the fours, their whole makeup is like, is this true to who I am? Is this really for me? And, like, three to even stop to ask that question is like, well, what's the end goal? What's the prize?

Like, what does that even mean?

I don't. What does that mean? Right. Like what? Like, but you did that back in April of 2021 when you had that conversation with Keisha for the first time. You did it again, you know, when you dabbled for five seconds in getting a corporate real estate job.

Yeah.

Like, you. You proved the be Most beautiful flex a3 can do is like, is this true to who I am and what I want to do with myself?

Yeah. Yeah, it's hard.

It's hard. But once you know how to work that, like, you're seeing how magic happens. So after that hilarious job interview that you had that you said you was.

Terrible, I bombed it so hard. It was the worst. Yeah. If we recorded it, I'd be embarrassed to hear what I was saying on it.

And here's the funny thing, you guys, like, literally, that was maybe, what, four, five months ago? It was March, wasn't it?

Oh, no. That was only, like, two months ago.

Two months ago, you guys. And. And want to know what happened once he, like, flexed that four way and is like, this is a big fuck. No, I'm not doing this. You have two massive properties that are investment properties. One is amazing event space. Airbnb.

Yep.

And the other is, what, a fourplex?

Fourplex. Yeah.

Okay, so let's talk about once you ripped that band aid off, flexed in the four, and, like, this is a. Hell, no. What happened in between that and, like, putting offers in on these two properties? How did you make that move knowing it's going to be messy as hell?

Yeah, I think I just got out of my own damn way and just really realize, like, if this is. If we're gonna do this, let's do this. And I was more of a information collector. I want to know everything and know the steps, and it just got to a point where, like, you're never gonna. Like, it just doesn't work like that. You're not gonna know all the steps, which is a hard part for me. And it's trusting that it's gonna work out even when you haven't seen proof of that in this space we've seen in other spaces, other parts of life. So it was really just kind of getting out of my own way. And as soon as we did that, it was off to the races. And then we closed on two big properties within a week of each other. I mean, it was crazy.

It is crazy. And one of my favorite phrases or quotes is that reps build confidence. Like, collecting the information doesn't, but it's what we do with the information. Like, actually lifting the heavy weight of what that information means is where our confidence is built. And know for you to come out of the gates and have two properties in the same week and the four plex, like, the first day that you're going to meet all your new tenants that you have now inherited, like, you had one that Was in jail.

Still there.

Still in jail. And his brother like rammed in the garage. One had a dog that shouldn't have a dog.

Yeah, not in the least.

What were the other things?

One was gonna be late on rent payment. The fourth was a good one. He's. He just pays his rent on time. So we're one for four.

But for a three, something like that, fresh out of the gates could have you like building the case. Like, oh my gosh, like this is not for me. See, I fucked it up. I don't know what I'm doing. But I watched you guys, you specifically have a lot of fun with it.

Yeah, yeah, I. It could, I think in a last year or six months ago, even four months ago, I would have gone to a place of. I should have known that that was going to happen.

I.

Did I not check enough of the boxes? Did I not do enough due diligence? How did I not expect this? Like, surprises to me are like I should have expected that. Like I didn't. I mean then that. Then I get hard on myself. Like I should have prepared for that. But at that when that, that's just. You're never going to read that in a book. Like things are just going to happen. And so we, you know, we just take a fun approach to it of like that's so funny. And we just keep saying we're learning through this. That's really the only way we're going to get more confident and get our abilities to do the next one.

So for somebody that's not an enneagram3, but you know, they're listening right now and they are living with a three or they love a three or you know, they're trying to lead a three. What are a few things that you would advise them or give them advice how to bring out the best in a three. And also. But not bring out the best as far as achieving, but bring out the best as far as, you know, them standing in the truth of who they are. Because a lot of times we see how much you can achieve and innocently we're dangling carrots in front of you that of course you're going to grab after but that kind of perpetuates the problem. But if somebody's loving or leading a 3, what is the best way to bring out the best in them?

Yeah, I think giving them. I like words of affirmation so, you know, telling me I'm doing a good job that's not based on like merit or like, oh, measurable. Right, Immeasurable. Just Seeing them. And you and Keshe both do a great job of that. Something as simple as that helps so much because there is this innate pressure we put on ourselves in the world of, like, okay, we did two houses, but there's someone else that just did six down the street. You know what I mean? Like, you can always. We could always find something that, oh, we could have been doing more. But just hearing, like, you're doing great in general, like, even on the little things and just stop. And recognizing, like, you may not show up on the stat sheet, closing the house, but what you did today, that was great. Like, you're getting better. And for me, it's an example. Is like sharing more on social. Like, we're starting a podcast. Like, stuff like that. That's not my innate skill set. But, you know, Case does a good job. Like, oh, you crushed that like that. You made that video and you're great. Like, stuff like that, that I feel like I'm hard on myself. Like, I could change things about that when I watch it back, but hearing that, it was good.

Well, especially even starting a podcast, which we'll talk about in a second, like starting a podcast that shows all the messy beginning stuff. It's not even like this polished up look and see what I've done. Like, that's so amazing. It's like we're in the trenches of this messiness, brand new, and we're showing you how to do it. Like, here's the curtain pulled back. And worst case scenario for an unhealthy enneagram 3 is that. And I love that. That's like the whole premise of the brand that you guys have built for the real estate investment business for the Enneagram 3. That's listening right now. And they're hearing you say all these things, but, you know, it's one thing to say it, it's another thing to actually pull the trigger and let the world see you at your most vulnerable. What advice would you give them to maybe make that a little bit easier?

Yeah, if they're. If you're listening and there's something you're making a big change or in the. In. In the process of about to make a big change is just action. That's been the biggest thing is we'll tend to overanalyze, tend to overthink, want to know all the steps, all the answers. But mostly in life, it's just taking the action and trusting that you're going to figure it out and learn from mistakes and you don't have to Be the best right off the bat. You just have to be. You just have to get going.

How important is it for an enneagram3 to have somebody in their life that they don't have to keep the mask on and that they can be as messy as possible with. Without judgment? How important is that for a three? I think it's everything.

Yeah. For me, it's everything. I'm so fortunate to have my wife. I can be my worst self in front of, and she sees me and she's such a supporter. Having you in our life has been great. If you don't have that, friends can be huge. And that's something I didn't. I'm working on is bringing friends in more because it's so easy to just put on a facade. Oh, how is everything? Good, Everything's good. But really breaking it down and, you know, it's definitely something I need to work on.

I cannot wait for my son to hear this episode because he's in that season right now. It's really hard. He was telling me last night, like, because he's a two, but he's got a strong three wing as well, especially, you know, with the vulnerability piece. Like me. I see all of it, but he was just saying last night, I don't know why I'm afraid to say it to my friends, thank you for that. Thank you for that. Joey, if you're listening, that one was for you. Okay, so we've got you in your messiness now doing a podcast, and you have an Instagram page. It's called Get Investing. Is there a dot in any of that?

Yeah, a dot between the get and investing.

So get is spelled G H E T as like a spin on the first part of their last name, get Mary. So g h e t.investing is the Instagram handle, and two days ago, you dropped the podcast. Okay, so tell me the whole premise of the podcast, why we all need to listen to it. I already have, like, five people. I've already said, when this drops, you need to listen to it. What is this going to look like?

Yeah. So the podcast just launched. So when I wanted to get into real estate investing, you know, Keshe was like, she was super supportive and kind of interested, but over time, she listened to me listening to podcasts, like, ooh, this is interesting. And she became really involved. And now we're like, oh, let's just, like, do this together. Which then involved. You know, we shoot. We both were interested in rental properties, and it turned into I was supposed to be a Podcast by myself. I'm like, you know what? Like, I want to do this with you. I think you have a really unique perspective, and I think we can. We can really connect with people from our different angles, both being man and wife or man and woman, plus how our personalities are. So then that. That's how the podcast came about. So we really want to frame it in a way of come along with us. In the real estate space, there's just a lot of experts, which is great. You're going to learn a lot, but it's a lot of, like, it seems. Seems unattainable a lot of the times and kind of just a little boring.

Well, and it's. It's also intimidating to ask basic questions from the novice to some of those, because you're like, oh, they're gonna think I'm a piece of. Or like, how stupid am I? Whereas what I love about you, too, is the premise of, like, there's no dumb question.

Yeah, we're only a step ahead, maybe from you, and we're not on this, like, pedestal that's so far up. So we're really trying to stay connected in that way and just bring people along in on the journey and really interview cool real estate investors and other people that can help you kind of get out of your own way and go, like, what's holding you back? And help you take the first steps of getting started in real estate.

Oh, my gosh, I cannot wait to listen to it. It's going to be so great. You two are a dynamic duo, and I love that. It's just like the. Come along with me and see how this is done, because that's helping you. Even though you have safe pockets in your life where you can do that, I mean, that's like a very, very, very public platform where you're kind of doing that, and it's only going to help make you stronger and more vulnerable, which will continue to bring the right people in your life for sure.

Yeah. Just jumping off the deep end and going right in. Just attack that vulnerability.

So what are you most excited about for this next year?

I'm just excited about just the alignment, the clarity that we're finding in our life. You know, doing this with Keshe together. You know, we want to start having kids next year, so it's going to be really fun being myself and not worrying about what everyone else really thinks of me and really asking myself. You know, we're asking ourselves, like, what do we want for our life and how do we want it to look and just taking control of that.

I love it. It's so awesome to see you what you've done in the years since you've lost your dad and really not rushing through the process, but honoring every step of who you are along the way. Losing my dad was the biggest catalyst for change in my life as well. It's very parallel to what you've done. I started a new career a few months after my dad died too. So I know that both of them, even though we may have wished we'd had different conversations towards the end of their lives, I know that both of them are watching what we've done with the loss of them and made something magical out of it. So I'm so proud of you.

Thank you.

Thank you for sharing your heart and your vulnerability for everybody that maybe thinks you guys have it so easy. I think that's probably the biggest misconception is like nothing phases you. It's quite the opposite. So where can people find you? I find mentioned it, but go ahead and do it again.

Yeah, the Get Investing. You can reach out there or my personal Instagram is Sina Getmiri. You can find me there and say hi if this helped.

And the podcast is Get Investing.

Get Investing. Yep. I love it. It'll be on all the major. Wherever you listen to your podcast, it'll be there.

Oh my gosh. Go listen. I guarantee these two will be on HGTV at some point. Mark my words. I give it five years and they're gonna be like the it couple. Chip and Joanna got nothing on YouTube.

We're knocking down a wall next week, so we'll see how that goes.

Oh my gosh, I wanna break. That's my favorite part is like big shock, right?

Yeah.

All right, you guys, if you love this episode, if you are an enneagram3 or love one, please share it with somebody that needs this beautiful, beautiful message. Cena, I love you. Until next time, you guys.

Thanks for having me.

I'm so happy you enjoyed the Leadership Formula podcast.

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It.