EP287: {Special Series} What it's like to be an Enneagram Eight - Heart, Mind, and Soul with Zoi Jones - The Challenger

Foreign.

Welcome to the Leadership Formula Podcast, where you will learn the secret sauce behind achieving massive success. I'm your host, Tracy o', Malley, multimillion dollar entrepreneur, your Enneagram expert, master performance coach, and mom to millennials. Do you want deep, meaningful relationships? To wake up every day with purpose and make money doing something you love? Well, you've landed in the right place. Every week, I will teach you how to get exactly what you want in life by strengthening your emotional intelligence. Using a combination of the Enneagram framework, live life coaching sessions, and real talk from yours truly. It's time to transform yourself into the ultimate leader of your life. Let's do this thing.

Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Leadership Formula podcast. And we are continuing our series getting to know each of the Enneagram types in their heart, their soul, their mind, the way that we operate. And you know, this is a special week, y', all, because it is all about the Enneagram 8, which yours truly is. As an 8, I was super resistant to the whole Enneagram thing back almost 11 years ago now. And it has been, next to my faith, the greatest tool that I've ever used in understanding not just myself, but how others might receive me. And that's so important, especially as an enneagram 8. We're kind of a bull in a china shop, even when we're quiet. I've been told before, I'm the quietest, loud person that. That they've ever known. And it's because our energy enters rooms before we do. And that can be a really, really beautiful, powerful thing. And it can also be like a wrecking ball. And for those of you that aren't an 8, this is a really important episode. If you love or lead one, or try to lead one. We're hard to lead sometimes, but it's maybe we'll open your eyes to that tough outer exterior that so many of us kind of present with and lead with that underneath it all, there is a beautiful, sensitive, vulnerable person, man or woman. But if you are innate, it is your responsibility to kind of understand why you are resistant to that and why maybe that has robbed you of some beautiful relationships, connections, support, and intimacy in your life. And so this is a little insight to the enneagram 8. And I thought, who better to bring on than a client of mine? I met her in a mastermind. She was a member in a mastermind that I happened to speak at. And she's a lawyer. She's an attorney and partner in a law firm. She's Also a home birthing mom of three. Leave it to an enneagram8 to power through and home birth. I would never have done that, that's for sure. I'm like, give me the epidural. But powerful woman, wife, leader, mother, friend, client, all the things. Zoe Jones, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much, Tracy. I'm excited for this conversation.

It's funny, I know. It's like we know each other. This is also like enneagram8women. If you have typed as an 8, we are the most mistyped on the Enneagram. High achieving women are mistyped on the Enneagram. A lot of us, like, show as three or eight. That masculine energy, get shit done kind of woman, which definitely has been beautiful parts too. And I know if you're listening right now and you are more of that type A, you're like, yeah, what's wrong with that? I get it. Because me and Zoe probably would have said the same thing a few years back. Like, deal with it.

This is.

This is where all my power is absolutely right. And I think when we saw each other, you know, you've hired coaches and you know, you're part of a mastermind with a very powerful leader, but there's something about an 8 and an 8 understanding that we just get. What would you say as an enneagram 8? And you are the one on one enneagram 8, which is also what I am. So we're the most intense energy out of all the different types, not just eights, but the different kinds of eights as well. So how has that worked for you and where do you see in your life where that has kind of been a little bit of a kryptonite for you?

Well, I think it's definitely worked for me to get where I am through my life. Getting through different challenges, getting through college, working three jobs through college, getting through law school, which is definitely not for the faint of heart. So I think that strength and that get shit done attitude has just kept me powering through despite any wrecking balls that were put thrown at me along the way.

It's hard to argue that, right? We have the receipts to prove it. And even when people would kind of bring to my attention that I was a little aggressive or I'd leave some wreckage in my path, I was like, yeah, but I have the receipts to show that the benefits far outweigh the negatives. And then there's this point that we recognize that, yeah, it has some assets, but the people that I care about, the people that I'M loving the people that I raise are being affected by this. And there's something about motherhood that really humbles an enneagram8 woman. Was that kind of like the aha moment for you? I mean, you got three kids under what, six? Under five.

Five and under, yes. And that's most definitely true. So I powered through, powered through and definitely went through life with this, this intense energy. And people would tell me very often that you're too much or I could never hide my, my emotions or my feelings. And it was very strong for some people growing up. But once I became a mom, I realized that I had to say soften that and really slow down and take presence in the moment and what's going through my head. Because I'm a go, go, go person. And I have, you know, three toddlers. My oldest is an enneagram 6 like my husband, very different needs certainty. And my middle is an enneagram8 like myself. And I realized I was butting heads with her. Why? And once I started to learn about the Enneagram, I realized, oh, this is why. She needs a little bit of control and she's only a toddler. And so I definitely had to slow down and take pause in mothering.

Yeah, it's hard because nurturing and compassion does not come natural to an enneagram 8. Because our biggest fear is being betrayed, violated, or put into an uncomfortable position. And I know if you're listening and you're not innate, you're like, well, how can your own children betray you? And things like that. Well, we're always scanning for that. The other big thing for an Enneagram 8, our measuring stick is strong versus weak. It is our black and white thinking. With the other types, it is other things. But for an Enneagram 8, our measuring stick and black and white thinking is either I'm strong or I'm weak. And if we're not strong, then we're weak. And if we're weak, we could be betrayed, violated, or put in a vulnerable situation. So it gets very murky up in our heart and our heads sometimes. Where do you have the conflict internally when your instinct and your soul is going, go, go, go, go, go. And the three toddlers and a self preservation enneagram6 husband is saying, hey, slow your roll a little bit. How do you reconcile that in the day to day without blowing up your life?

Yeah, I definitely think slowing down is a big part of it. And having to catch my.

That bowl in a china shop mentality when there's a lot of spinning plates in my business and home. And I feel like I'm not. I have to just roll through things, bulldoze through things to get shit done. And I look at my. My toddlers and my enneagram6 husband, and I can see it. I can feel it in them. And when my tension starts to rise and I have to really just take that pause and bring in the compassion and treat them with compassion and realize that just bulldozing through is not. It's not the goal. It's the process, too. With my family.

One of the things that I have, you know, and even slowing our role, like, in our instinct as an 8, like, if we slow down, we could be taken advantage of. So it's really. This conflict for us is like, because we're scanning. We're always scanning for conflict and things coming up. That's why we are the protector, the challenger.

It's.

I mean, that's why we're great if we love you and care about you. Like, you don't have to worry because we'll take a bullet for you if we care about you and if we trust you. But slowing down really is a conflict of interest for the enneagram8. But when we're raising humans and we have partners in our life that aren't wired like us, it's really important. But this whole thing about compassion. So since it doesn't come natural for an enneagram 8, I know that if I had been given this kind of framework and tool, I would have used that knowledge to manipulate and manufacture what could appear as compassion. But it was really like a way to get people to do what I wanted them to do when I wanted to. Do you ever catch yourself in saying where you're almost kind of patronizing with your compassion, or is it genuine? Or do you know? Because it's hard for an 8 sometimes to discern that.

That's an interesting question. I think I'm still learning that, actually. I'm still practicing the compassion and slowing down in that way. I definitely see it in my business. I see myself doing it here and there. You know, I negotiate and I argue on a regular basis in my career. And I definitely can be patronizing on that side of it. As far as with my kids. No, they really bring out, honestly, the best in me. I do see it with my husband. I will be completely transparent there. And I'm definitely working on that. And it's always a work in progress. But vulnerability is very, very difficult for me. And I've been working on that a Lot in the last year.

You know, I teach this shit. And thankfully, yeah. And I still letting people see all parts of me in real time, you know, because vulnerability, after we figured it out isn't vulnerability. That's storytelling. Right. And this is where an enneagram 8 can kind of think they're being vulnerable. And we come by it innocent. I really thought I was being vulnerable because I was sharing intimate parts of my life. But it's not vulnerable if I've already figured out how to handle it. And I don't need anybody. Right. That's just storytelling.

Real vulnerability is in the middle of the thick of it when you don't know how it's going to end. When you feel weak and leaning into people. I want you to know I still am very, very challenged by this. And honestly is the demise of most of my relationships that I've had in the past. So just know that it's a work in progress constantly. And it is our default. So if you love us, know that. Also, the reason why it's hard for us is because whether we're aware of it or not, we're kind of judging you. Are you strong or are you weak? And this is another one of our downfalls. Because if our measuring stick is broke or we have unrealistic visions based on our upbringing of what strong looks like, it could be very skewed and you might not ever stand a chance. Do you find this with your spouse? Because it has played out in every romantic partnership I've ever been in. And they're strong, but my measuring stick was broken.

Yeah, I think I'm still working on that in times. Yes. At times, definitely. And I have to catch myself and say, that's not. It's not what I'm looking for. I fell in love with him. I married him for a reason. He's been my biggest supporter and cheerleader and just real support system and rock through many difficult and challenging times over the past 12 years that we've been married. So I remember that. I have to remember that. But, yes, there are those times where that's my instinct. It's my instinct. And I have to catch myself and remember that.

Well. And especially being with an Enneagram 6, that I'm with an Enneagram 4, which they are a lot slower to take action than we are. Yours gets stuck in analysis paralysis. Mine gets stuck in the feelings. And I know, like, there are times I can catch myself in judgments like, just fricking do something, do something, do something, like internally. And that energy does not lie even when we're quiet. That's the other thing about an 8 is we don't have a poker face when it comes to our energy.

Oh, not at all. My brother's been telling me that my entire life. My brother's older than me, and he just laughs at me. He's like, I can read you all over you. And I. I'm like, how? Why? When I growing up, you know, I didn't qu. Understand it growing up. Like, why can't I hide my emotions? Why can't I hide my strong energy?

I try. There are times, like, I will say, like, even this weekend, I'm going to that event, and even though I'm speaking at the end of it, like, I'm going to kind of just be a fly on the wall. That's what I always say. It never happens because the energy, people can feel that and they feel safe in it, especially when we are grounded. And that. That's why I don't ever want you to lose that. That gift. But we have to, like, with great re. Responsibility and understanding, especially with some of the more sensitive. And this is not a weakness. Sensitivity. I've had to learn that sensitivity is not weakness. I'm raising probably the most sensitive man I've ever known, and he's one of the strongest. And so really recalibrating what I deem as strong versus weak, I still, like, I'd much rather just power through, because that's what we know is strong. But when we can embrace the vulnerable parts of who we are and the innocence, that will allow us to have deeper connection, deeper support, and greater intimacy. So as a lawyer, I always say, like, eights make great lawyers because we love to fight, and we will, and we will go to the very end. Where has being an 8 helped as a lawyer, and where has it been hard as an eight, being a lawyer and professional?

Well, I'm a personal injury attorney for the plaintiff side, so I represent victims of auto accidents. And that actually, the fact that I. When you're in my circle, like you mentioned earlier, I will guard you and take care of you to the end. And I do that with my clients. I really treat them like family and take care of them through the process and get them through the process and hold their hands and then the strength of being able to. I'm not afraid of confrontation. So like I said, I argue on a regular basis with adjusters and defense attorneys and. And that's where I go to battle. And I get all that out in that sense. So that's that's where it's really helped me, where it's been difficult as a lawyer, you know, I'm not. I can't say that. Probably not parts of me have been. Have been difficult on that side. I think it's harder on my personal side in friendships and relationships than it is on the business side.

So one of the things you and I have talked about with our work together is our default as an eight is divide, conquer, blow anything up in our path. And that is our strength and also our kryptonite. And having the right tools for the job, that obviously won't work when you are, you know, leaning into your partner or trying to support a partner or raising littles like that absolutely will not end well. So we need these other tools when the default in us wants to just, like, be the bear. And so, you know, you and I have spent a lot of time talking about our wings, which are the superpowers. And they are, you know, what push us into our growth number on the Enneagram. And the growth number for the Enneagram eight is the two, which is hilarious. When I first was learning about the Enneagram, I was like, that's ridiculous. You know, the considerate helper, like, we're the powerful, like force. We're not a considerate helper. We are like, we will protect in all the things, but sometimes that protection can be off putting for people. And it's in that compassion that the 2 has, where we and our 8 energy can be its most effectiveness. The effectiveness is at its greatest level. But left to our own ways, the eight will never do that. And so we need those wings desperately to help us embody that two energy. I've talked about famous twos like Mother Teresa, Martin Luther King. They're both Enneagram eights. But how they presented to the world appeared very two. Like they were very compassionate and empathetic. But don't get me wrong, both were willing to fight for what was right, and that is that 8 energy. But they had grown into that 2 force as an 8. Where have you learned how to use the 7 and the 9 wing to help you embody more of that 2 zone?

Where have I learned to use the 7 and the 9? I haven't quite gotten into my 9 yet, I don't think. And my 7. I've really surrounded myself with a lot of new friendships in the past year of other female entrepreneurs, and many of them are sevens that have now become my dear friends. And one actually is a two. When I met you at that mastermind, I was roommating with a two, which had an eight and a two in a room. Very, very different. But we also were realizing that we were bringing out different parts of each other, which was really cool. And so the creative side in building a business and having the visionary of leaning into my 7 has really leveled up my business as well as, you know, bringing that into my family. The nine. Like I said, I haven't. I'm not sure where I'm at with the nine, but definitely bringing in the seven and working on the two.

Well, it's interesting, too, because that seven energy, you know, I am surrounded by sevens as well. I'm raising one as well. And they really allow me to get into more of that visionary playful, not sweating the small stuff, you know, easing up on that intensity. Even though, like, the 7 is a more assertive type. Like, they don't sit around and wait. And so even though we don't even understand how they function, sometimes we do put them in the strong category for the most part, because at least they do do something right. So I think, especially as eights and more of that assertive part of you, we do kind of see the strength of the seven. So we're more likely to lean into it now, where the nine. The nine is what makes me a great mom. The nine is what makes me a really good leader. The nine is what makes me a. Able to love and lead anyone and not be in judgment. So that nine, that adaptive peacemaker, you know, knowing what we know about the peacemaker, when they're not at their healthiest, you and I absolutely would probably judge them as weak. And so we aren't likely to naturally want to go there unless we're in crisis. Like when I was a kid, you know, and you sharing parts of your life with me, I could see where you could kind of go into the peacemaker, growing, you know, when. When shit's hitting the fan or there's conflict and, you know, if you, like, exude your 8 energy, it's not going to end well. It's not worth it. You probably have used the peacemaker even in your own home when you know that your husband is not happy with you, and it's like, I'm just gonna keep my mouth shut.

That's the Peacemaker in a not so healthy way. But the gifts of the enneagram, 9, and this is like the Holy Grail because I believe the divine source, spirit, God is an as a nine on the Enneagram. And when they're great, the Nines have the ability to see the bigger picture for all of us and not in a visionary way, but in what's for the greatest good, what can create harmony. And sometimes harmony comes with conflict. Right. A lot of times, like we'll avoid the nine especially. They don't want conflict. But healthy conflict creates the greatest change and beautiful growth. But the nine, when they're able to lean in, that they care deeply, they include everyone, they're non judgmental. And where eights can be a little abrasive energetically and verbally with our energy and our voices, if we really lean into that nine, that is where before I open my mouth and react like an eight does, like, how would a nine kind of articulate this? How would a nine verbalize this?

Yeah. So I think I've been leaning into my nine more recently than with my husband. My husband's going through a big transition right now, leaving corporate, starting his own entrepreneurial journey. And I've had to take pause and think before starting the conversation and not come in with that aggressive, I just want to tell you what you need to do attitude and really listen in and, and hear him.

Yeah, it's. It's like wise counsel, you know, even though us as eights, we see very clearly, we, I mean, we know exactly what people need to do. We do. But when we come in hot like we typically do, people feel the judgment. They feel like they could never live up to our expectations and they could never do it the way we do because we're strong and, and whatever story other people have built about us. But when we lead with that 9 energy as a mom too, they can receive our wisdom because it isn't as harsh. Still the same message. It is still the same message that you and I would deliver. It's just the delivery is a little bit different in a way that everybody feels like they can digest it. You know, the nine, I've joked when a nine is at their best, they have ability to tell people to go fuck themselves. And it feels really nice where if an 8 does that, like it never feels good when an 8 is delivering that fuck you energy. Right, Right. Same thing as a mom, you know, I have.

A sensitive son. I have, you know, that seven avoidant daughter. And it's only in that nine zone that they feel seen, heard, and understood fully because they already know, like I already know what's up. And so because we tend to be more tactical, you do it in your profession. You have to be.

Definitely.

But when we're raising humans and loving men or Women, it doesn't work so well.

Right. We have to get out of the tactical. Go get this done.

Yeah, it's definitely a muscle that you have to build. It's my favorite wing today. Honestly. It's where I can see the bigger picture. But it doesn't mean I always have to give my opinion, because we can be very opinionated, and we do know what people need to do because we see everything. Even when I'm asked for my opinion, instead of going into the flex, which you and I have talked about, because eights love to flex, instead of going into the flex, I go into that nine and ask others, like, what does your gut tell you? What do you think? Even though I know how I would answer, I want them to start trusting their confidence and their intuition, not just having to be reliant on me. Plus, I don't want codependent relationships. So the more people.

Yeah, I've learned that with my little sister as well. My sister's seven years younger than me, and growing up, I was always this big, strong energy, and I think my sister's a seven. We had a lot of conflict when she was about 18 years old, because I basically was telling her what she needed to do with her life and how I've already done it. I've already learned, like, you need. You should do this, and you'll get to this place. And she's like, no, I have my own ideas. And I had to really understand that, not to come in and just give my opinion and wait until she asks. And even when she does ask, ask the questions back to her and. And make sure that I'm not just bulldozing her. Her thoughts and telling her what to do.

Yeah. And if you try to do that to a seven, you're going to lose them because their biggest fear is being put in a box or being restricted. And, you know, that big eight energy likes to control, and we know control. And we will lose people like that. And the greatest gift we can give, especially for those sevens, is, you know, once she knows, like my daughter, too, once she knew, like, I see here, understand, value, who she is, and I'm not trying to turn her into me. They end up really coming to us for their wisdom and that and that stronghold.

That's definitely what's happened. So I did lose her. I lost her for a solid year, and that was very heartbreaking. And then over time, we rebuilt that, and she finally understood that I was not judging her. It came from a place of love, and I was just trying to help. But My energy came across like I was judging her and she wasn't doing, you know, the right things, which I didn't feel that way, but that's how it came out. Thankfully, we've been able to rebuild our relationship. Relationship. And now she does come to me for things. And now we live 30 minutes away. And I just. I delivered her most recent baby in a. In a parking lot. Oh, my gosh. In a parking lot.

You know, if you get nothing else from anything that I ever tell you on this podcast, it doesn't matter how we intend it to come out. What is really the magic in communication and understanding people is knowing how others might receive doesn't mean we're responsible for, you know, especially if they're not doing their own work, you know, but you have to always kind of check your own inventory and know, like, okay, I know they're not an 8. Have a guess of what, how they operate. Like, we don't need to be right. We need to be effective. And I could have all the beautiful intention in the world and it might not be received that way, but I have to check myself because there are times I am a little spicy and I really want to sting and hurt and sometimes consciously, sometimes unconsciously. So one of the things that you and I have talked a lot about too, is that five cave. So for each Enneagram type, we go to another number when things are really overwhelming us. And 4 and 8, we won't come out and tell you we're overwhelmed because of the flex and we want to show the world how strong we are. But when we're scared or when we feel weak in one one area of our life, sometimes we'll overcompensate in another area of our life. A lot of times when I'm feeling weak somewhere else, somebody else is going to pay for it along the line. But when that doesn't work anymore, where the enneagram 8 goes is kind of this 5 cave. And now we can use this fiveness in us for something beautiful. And that takes time to learn how. I'm learning how to use that quiet, skeptical investigator 5 energy in a beautiful way. But usually when an 8 gets quiet is when you all get worried. And rightfully so, because we go to the five cave, where we start to build a case and gathering intel, sometimes against you, sometimes against ourselves, sometimes who knows what we're doing in that five cave. This was a huge eye opening moment for me and where we can go to a five cave right in front of people too energetically. When I have deemed somebody as not worthy of my time. Energetically, I can completely disengage and it's the Five Cave and it can feel very abandoning. It can feel very cold and heartless. I've had to be very mindful with my kids when I'm in this zone to communicate this. Nothing about this energy is personal. I am in it and I'm in the cave. Where have you noticed most in your life? And with this awareness, do you see this come into play for you?

I have gone into my Five Cave more than I'd like to admit in the past year and a half. But I've also really grown from it as well. Through that and acknowledging those moments and seeing how that is coming out energetically, I've just learned. Yeah, I've learned so much about myself in the Five Cave along the way. It has come out when I'm overwhelmed with work and family, trying to balance it all. And when I feel like I'm weak in one area, I'll stop and take pause and really go into that Five Cave.

Have you ever used the Five Cave, like to build a case? I mean, obviously you build cases all damn day, but like. And come out like guns blazing.

Yes, I have with relationships in my family. Definitely. I'm part of a family business. I'm a lot of partners with my dad and sometimes that can be challenging. It's also a blessing, an absolute blessing because I'm able to raise a family and have a successful legal career and have the flexibility of it. But there are times when I go into my Five Cave and build my case as to why I'm running the business a certain way or, you know, why I'm. I have to defend the decisions that I'm making and. And then I come out. Yeah. Guns blazing and not listening to what anybody else is saying.

Yeah. You know, I've learned. I mean, not always because we're still humans. Right. And I'm still spicy and so are you. Especially when we feel like we're getting backed into a corner and it's like, oh, don't get too close, I'll bite. But I've had a recent relationship end and I would use the five Cave to really take inventory of my part in it in a non shameful way, in a compassionate way. Like stuff I didn't consciously have awareness of when it was happening, when I was in the thick of it. And I've used the Five Cave to find peace as well. But that is a flex that you have to learn for sure as an eight, because in that five cave, going into compassion, even for ourselves, can feel weak sometimes. Right. It's where we overcompensate with the flex.

Absolutely.

What's your favorite thing about being an enneagram 8 mom?

Being an enneagram 8 mom.

Yeah.

Being an enneagram 8 period is just being a problem solver. So I think being an enneagram 8 mom is, especially having three back to back is. I really can manage it all. It doesn't overwhelm me. I can do it. Like I said, I home birthed my babies. I made all my baby food. I like. I did it all. And. And I loved it. I loved every. Every minute of it. And I think that being an enneagram 8 and being able to, I don't know, have that big energy has allowed me to do that.

It's so funny because I had, you know, Irish twins too. I was 24 years old, back to back babies. My husband traveled at the time. He traveled all the time. Then my daughter broke her femur when she was 2. So I had kid in a body cast in a wheelchair and a running toddler that was like one year old. And with him. And people were like, how do you do it? Like, you're so strong. And I was salivating like, my ego got stroked so big. Not that I wish that on me or anything, but like, you know, telling an enneagram 8, they're so strong, kind of feeds that ego a little bit. So I will tell you that even though I love to know how strong I am, telling us how beautiful our heart is, we might kind of dismiss it or feel like, ugh, soft. That's how we will learn how to become more vulnerable over time. As long as we know you don't have an agenda with us. Because we're always assuming you do before. It's like we don't do the whole Ronald Reagan trust then verify. We're the opposite. We're verify then trust, for sure.

So true.

What would you want to tell somebody who loves or is trying to lead an enneagram 8 to kind of earn our trust?

Well, be trustworthy.

Exactly. But what does that mean to you?

Don't let us down.

That's a hard thing to not do because we do handle everything. It's hard not to let us down because we do take charge.

That is true. And we do find weakness in people that don't follow through. So, yeah, I would say following through, but loving an enneagram8, we are so strong. But we have the deepest love and biggest hearts that that strength and that love will protect, will protect you to the end. And so I think getting past the big energy and the controlling part of what we exert, you really get deep down into a beautiful relationship. Honestly, I love being an eight. I love being an eight. I'm learning the compassion side of it that I need to bring into it. But I think that get shit done attitude is. Is. Is needed. And it's fun.

It is. It is. For fellow Enneagram Eights out there, what would you tell them?

What?

How would you tell them to kind of learn how to flex in a different way? Like, flex with more compassion? I know you're still learning. I'm sure as hell still learning. What would you tell another enneagram 8, especially an enneagram 8 woman, would be some good first steps other than, you know, maybe hiring me.

Definitely hiring you. And that compassion and vulnerability is not a weakness.

Yes.

It's really not. And it's taken many years for me to see that. But when you look at somebody and you look at somebody as. As them and not what you want them to be or not what you expect them to be or not that they should be like you, then it really opens the doors to a different level of understanding and compassion, and you.

Become more powerful than you ever were when you were flexing. And the thing that I love about knowing this now, that all my power, all my strength comes in that softer, compassionate energy, doesn't mean I won't bury a body if I need to. Like, that would still happen. But I also am not energetically bankrupting myself living in that intensity 24 7. And so when we really need to flex, we have all that reserve built up, and then we can really freaking flex. And then we could really freaking flex, which I love.

Then we can take over the world.

And we do. And we do. So speaking of flexing, aside from all the other things you are doing, you know, a wife, mom of three under five, which is nuts. A partner in a law firm. You're a partner. You wrote a book or you're partnering in a book, and you also work with other lawyers as well. Like, that's kind of on your heart, especially the female lawyer, because you are misunderstood, whether you're an eight or not. So tell me about the book and kind of the future of Zoe Jones moving forward.

Yeah, I just collaborated on a book called Living a Legacy, which is available on Amazon with. With 17 other amazing female entrepreneurs. And we tell our story about living a legacy and really creating a life in alignment and joy and Authenticity, but telling our story of where we came from and how we got here. There's many different stories from immigration to my story of someone telling me that I couldn't be a mom and a lawyer and enneagram8. Right then and there, I told myself, bullshit. I'm going to prove this wrong and I'm going to spend every damn day proving this woman wrong. Who told me this many, many years ago while I was in law school. And so just wonderful stories about how to live a legacy in your day to day life. And the future of where I want to go is coaching other female attorneys to be able to understand that they can have a successful legal career and be an amazing mother and w they want to be. When we go through law school, we're taught that we have to grind and work 60, 70 hours a week to be successful and that you're supposed to show up before the partners and leave after the partners. And it's difficult to raise a family with that mentality. And I've seen many women give up having a family to have a legal career. I've seen other women wait to have their legal career because they wanted their family, and then they couldn't get back into it. And then I've seen other women have their legal career and then regret it when their kids. Kids are teenagers and young adults because they missed a lot of that time. And the world is changing. Technology is allowing us to have different ways of working and workflows and support. And so it's time for that to change. It's time for that to change in women, to be able to have both.

There's nobody like an enneagram8 to lead that charge, to show a different way. We are blazers of our own trails, that's for sure. And. And one of the things that a beautiful, healthy, strong enneagram8 can do is light the path for others to follow. And you, my love, are a beautiful example of that. Even in the learning and in the growing. And that book, you guys, go get it. Living a Legacy has already been a bestseller in nine different categories. And I know most of the women in there and I know their Enneagram types, and they're powerful, beautiful. Every single one brings something to the table that you can actually learn from and take with you on your journey forward. Zoe, appreciate you so much. I love working with you. I love enneagram8women. It's just like, we just get it. We just get each other. And for most of our life, feeling like nobody really understood all this energy. It's refreshing and an honor to know that you trust me to kind of.

Be so grateful for you, Tracy. Thank you.

You guys, where can they find you on Instagram if they want to follow along on your journey on Instagram?

It's my first name, Zoe Underscore A. Underscore Jo and then my business is Gonzalez and Jones apc.

You guys go check her out. She's remarkable and definitely if you are in the law industry, legal especially women, she's definitely somebody that can help you moving forward to have all the things, not just either Or. I love that. I love you girl. You guys, if you found beauty and knowledge and heart in this episode, please share it with somebody who may need it. If you love or lead an enneagram8, God help you, but we are here to help you. And if you are an enneagram8, know that I see you so fully and here for you to help you become the ultimate leader in your life. Thanks, Zoe.

Thank you. Traci.

I'm so happy you enjoyed the Leadership Formula podcast. Please help us spread the word about this show by sharing it with a friend and leaving a written Apple podcast review. If you have any follow up questions to this episode, you can DM me directly on Instagram at traceyomalley. You can also find additional resources on my website@tracyomalley.com I'm excited to lead you into the next level of your life.

Sam.