EP329: Human Design and The Enneagram - Finding The Beauty in Bringing Them Together With Nicole Laino-Human Design Expert and Enneagram 7

Okay, I know you may have heard about the Enneagram or someone told you you need to know all about it. So here you are.

But what the hell do you do with it? Great news.

You are in the right place. Lead with the Enneagram is the show where you will actually learn how to use this incredible growth tool and apply it in all areas of your life, personally and professional. Hi, I'm Tracy. And to be honest with you, I was a skeptic of the Enneagram before I started to actually integrate it into my life. In fact, in true enneagram 8 style, I told my therapist to F off when she wanted me to dive into.

It well over a decade ago.

Now that I have more than a decade of experience using the Enneagram and working on myself in my family with those closest to me, building my own bulletproof leadership, sales teams with one on one clients, couples, leading workshops for top Fortune 100 executives, and speaking to large audiences all across the globe about this powerful tool. I've got the proof and deep understanding of how to help you implement this into your life instead of it just.

Being some fun thing you heard about.

The Enneagram can be a complex model. But with me as your guide, I will show you how to first lead yourself in a powerful, effective and compassionate way, and then help you lead others that way in your life as well. This podcast will have powerful conversations with guests, live typing sessions, as well as solo episodes of Breaking down dynamics of the Enneagram and how they impact your life, career and relationships. So now let's dive in.

Hello, you guys. Today you're in for a treat. I know you looked at the title and you wanted all in because I get asked all the time about human design and Enneagram and how they relate to each other. And you guys know me, you know I'm a straight shooter, no kind of girl. And honestly haven't found anybody that I really resonated with that spoke like I did in a way that was straight shooting, no bullshit. And bottom line, to me, really quickly, because as you know, if you're into human design and just like Enneagram, it isn't complicated, but it is super, super complex. And when you get somebody that speaks it to you in a way where you're like, fuck yeah, I get it, I get it, I get it. Tell me more, tell me more. You hold them close and a few. Gosh, it was about a month and a half ago, I met this beautiful woman. I was facilitating an Enneagram workshop at a mastermind and she was there. And she is a human design expert. And let me tell you, I don't. When I hear that, that expert after somebody's title, I automatically go up with my spidey senses as an enneagram 8. You know, I'm very cautious of people who throw that title after their name, but this woman absolutely fits that and beyond. Nicole Lano is a human design expert. She's the podcast host of soon to Be Unshakable with Human Design. It's currently called what, the Limitless Entrepreneur.

That's right.

But on my birthday, which is in a few weeks in April, April 3, the new name will be Unshakable with Human Design. Which is beautiful because you need to know this woman, especially if you're into the Enneagram and Human Design. We will banter back and forth about how so much of it comes together as another beautiful resource and tool to bring you new self awareness so you can step into who you are always designed to be and have everything that you deserve in this lifetime. So, Nicole Laino, hello.

Hello. Thank you for that amazing intro. Thank you. I'm like blushing.

Well, I only have people on the show that I actually would hire, so there's that. And I only have people on this show that I really trust. And if I'm going to reveal you to the people that trust me, I need to trust you. And you fit that bill so strongly. And I'm excited to dive into Human Design as it correlates with me as an enneagram 8. You know, you and I, we. We went down that rabbit hole between the two of them at that final dinner that you and I had together at the Mastermind that I was doing the workshop at. How did you get into Human Design First? Because I think it's really interesting, like when I tell the story of how I got into the Enneagram, it wasn't to build a profitable business, it wasn't to be the Enneagram expert. I had a very profound personal experience in how integrating it in my life really transformed my life, and then went on to help me transform millions of other lives with it. How did you get into the Human Design? Because usually the people that are really fucking great at what they do have had this, aha, groundbreaking experience with something that they end up teaching exactly what they needed to learn.

Yeah. So I guess it kind of all ties in with my story. I think I've always identified as a seeker, as someone who was interested in human behavior. So a little bit about me, I was, I call myself a Type a hippie. I was. I was like a corporate girl. I worked on Wall street, but I was also an actress. So I always had these kind of like two sides that I felt like could. Had had to live totally exclusively away from each other. They could not live together, couldn't be creative and organized. I couldn't be driven and like this free spirit. But I learned that. That both of them actually have to. Have to be all of it, all of the time. So this road of being a seeker, I was always as an actor, I thought that I wanted to be a star. You know, I wanted to be on stage. I want to do all these things. And I love the performance aspect. But really what became, through studying acting, I realized that what I really wanted was to study human behavior. I really loved what made a character tick. The scene study part, the character study. Like, how do you build this person from just a person on a page to a real life flesh and blood person? And you do it by thinking about things like, well, what would cause a person to have this thought? What would happen in their past that would make them react this way? So I just was always fascinated with that aspect, which kind of leads into, like, where I am now. So I just. I always had this, you know, let me know more about me, let me know more about people. I'm fascinated by it. And I always felt, I'll be honest here, because I can be raw with you and your audience. You know, I always felt maybe a little broken. As. As high achieving as I was, there was always like a bit of a hole in me, you know, family stuff, and wondering, you know, are you good enough? Or why didn't they love you? Or why didn't they love you enough for the way that you thought that they should have? And I was always looking for something that could illuminate another part of me that maybe other people didn't see that I knew lived in me and I couldn't touch. So I was doing a lot of healing work. I was doing a lot of. I'm also an EFT practitioner, where I was kind of going into my past and resolving a lot of the energetic blocks, the traumas, small T traumas that I had throughout my life. And during that process. Someone in my program was a human design reader and analyst. I'd heard of human design before. I had sort of like, read about it. It felt complex and like a lot. And I was doing a lot already. I think when she came into my life, when I kind of was exposed to her, it was like, oh, maybe I have space to start to take in this very, very large, this, this large endeavor. And I never thought that I would dive into it the way that I was diving into it. It was like, can I learn about me? And she gave me a reading which was. Was really interesting and, and lit a spark. And then I do what I do, which as a 5 1, I'm an investigator. I dove in hard where I was like, let me learn more about this and just fireworks going off. Of all the ways that I was seeing myself in this new light and it was changing the way that I operated, it was changing the way that I showed up in the world. And the really the most important thing was how I viewed myself. And that was what I was looking for all along. So I was like, this is, this is the answer, at least for me.

That's what I say about the Enneagram too. It's very similar kind of journey, you know. And diving deeper into it, it allowed me to not just understand myself, but also have compassion and empathy for all those parts of me that maybe had me believing I wasn't worthy or lovable or enough or all the things that I think as high achieving women specifically. I see this pat with all of us that there's some drive there. And I love that we both have used our experience and understanding and finding that for ourselves to now pay that forward with other people.

Yeah. And it helped me to be more compassionate to other people. I understood my husband more. I understood. I understood my father, who I had the most tumultuous relationship with in my life. It changed how I viewed him and the interactions we had in the way that we triggered each other. Learning that he was mostly a five two, which I'm a five one, that five line and understanding what that really meant, I was like, oh my goodness. It didn't have to be the way that it was, but I sort of understand why it was the way that it was. There's always personal choice. There's always people choosing to show up a certain way or be selfish or not. But the projections that I learned that we were throwing back and forth at each other, that's kind of an artifact of who we are in that profile line. So just. It just opened me up in so many ways and it's changed. I parent my son by design. He's five. That's been a game changer. Just understanding how to communicate with him and how he operates and, and how his energy is used. My husband, I no longer look at him as so lazy, but I know that He's a projector. I have more compassion for his need extreme rest. And I'm a manifesting generator. We. We are built differently, so I can look at us that way.

So for those of you guys listening right now, you know I told you I met her when I was facilitating an Enneagram workshop. And it was revealed that Nicole is a one on one enneagram7 with the 738Tri type. Which means she's the mover and shaker with those three centers of intelligence operating. And, you know, meeting her, she absolutely fits that. She's also the same human design as me. We're both manifesting generators with the 5. 1 as far as anything more than that, I really don't know. So we're going to dive into that in a second. But before I do, and before you do, what was it about? Because you know, like you. You probably get asked about the Enneagram a lot and how they kind of go together. And like you told me before we hit record, like, you really hadn't taken the Enneagram too seriously until I showed up. What was different about maybe you understanding the correlation between the human design and Enneagram and taking Enneagram a little bit serious? More serious. Because same when you and I were talking, I was like, I want to know more, right? What was it about how I was explaining and integrating the Enneagram that was way different than anything you'd heard before?

Well, first of all, you typed me right. I had taken online assessments before and they always came out different. And the funny thing is, they didn't even come out with what you gave me. I was typed A3 and I was type 24 before using not typed. I was given that when I took the online assessments. And so I was skeptical when I seen you speak before. I had many people I respect had huge respect for you. So I was. And I liked you as a person. So I was like, I'm going to show up to this with an open mind. But there was skepticism because I'm like, I've taken this test before and it's different every time. So how can I rely on that? And then you typed me and I opened the book and it said I was a seven. I was like, wasn't expecting that.

And I think one of the things that. That really helped one, you. You explain things in a really practical, grounded sort of way of like, this is how you show up. This is. This is what your type means. You're driven by this. Even just that language made more sense to me. Than this is who you are, right? This is what you're driven by. Understanding how the wings worked. I heard that before. I read about it before. Didn't really make sense to me before. When you started explaining your wings are how you start to really evolve into the highest expression of your seven is it's through the wings. I was like, okay, this makes sense. I do think that it helped me as well. I think that this was sort of like icing on the cake. The fact that I was in a group and I knew the people in the group, not all of them very well, because it's a mastermind. Some of them I was meeting for the first time. But I did have other interactions with them prior to this. And some of them I did know that hearing what they were typed and being able to hear what everybody else was, hear the expression of it and the tri type, adding that nuance to it, where it wasn't just this blanket thing there was the way that you brought it all together made so much sense and it just clicked. And I do think having the human design background helped because I was understanding how this showed up. The seven manifesting generator made a lot of sense for a seven. That's like super multi passionate, has this like free spirit sort of vibe that's an aspect of the manifesting generator. So I was like, okay, I see how that kind of correlates there. The fact that I would be a Wing eight, because seven is a Wing eight or a Wing six. These are two aspects that I work on in my life. The eight has a bit of the five one kind of vibe to it that totally there's. That there's a leadership energy to it, which can be hard or it can be. Or it can be really. It can be very powerful and magnetic. And so just just hearing the language that you used, it was very similar. I mean, we're both five ones as well. I think we speak the same language. It's really practical. It's grounded in, like, how do you use this? And you just speak in a way that. That I understood on like a cellular level where I was like, I understand what I can do with this. And that made me want to learn more. It wasn't just interesting to me.

Right, right, right. And same when I was that night that we were chatting at dinner and I was kind of going through like my kids charts and the boyfriend's charts, I'm like, tell me more, tell me more. Because I know enneagram inside and out. But like, the more I have to be able to Support them for who they are will make me even that much better as their partner, as their parent. So I wanted to kind of dive into mine a little bit because people listening obviously come here because they love me for whatever reason or they love how I talk about Enneagram. And for many of them I know human design is part of the equation. All I know and tell me if I'm wrong. I know the 5 one is kind of intense, like you said, an investigator, which knowing my Enneagram makes a lot of sense. But also that manifesting generator, what I understand about it is, is as long as I'm passionate about it, I can make shit happen. However, if I'm doing it just because it's what I should do, I could probably be okay at it. But it's going to be a grind and it's like pulling teeth for me to make it happen. Is that accurate? What is the. What is being a manifesting generator five one actually mean?

So manifesting generators, There are five types in human design. There's generators, manifesting generators, manifestors, projectors and reflectors. That's really about your aura.

That's about quickly, quickly go into what those are.

Sure. So, so we'll start with the generators. Generator and manifesting generator are sort of closely tied, but not exact the same. Good generator.

I'm dating a generator.

So he's a generator, I'm dating a.

Generator and I have a manifester and a manifesting generator as kids.

Oh, the manifester. Is that your daughter?

My son.

That's your son. Okay, that's very interesting. So well, let's start with the manifesto because they're sort of the top of the totem pole as far as like how their strategy works. Every type gets a strategy. It's basically how you are turn. How your energy is turned on is one way to think about it. So how are you going to be in the highest expression energetically? And we're talking about like your aura. We're talking about like if generators are in frustration, that's our not self theme. If we're in frustration, that's typically people are not going to really want to be around us. We're not going to be magnetic in that people are going to be like, I'm as far away from you as possible. That's sort of like our yuck theme. Like nobody's really going to want to hang out with you when you are like this. For manifestors, they start out the top of the totem pole because they are the ones that have kind of a direct Connection. They don't have to respond to anything in life. It's like it's. It comes from within them. Or if you, whatever you believe in, you might think that it comes down from on high. You might think that it's coming. A straight connect to the divine. I have this creative urge to create something. I envision it. They have this vision for the future, which might be humanitarian, it might be business, it might be whatever it is. It might be like I had a neighbor who was a manifestor. Building a tree house in the backyard for your kids might be the creative urge you have in that moment. They have to move on those things and they don't need anything other than the inner drive to do it. They're really here to be the visionaries of the collective and say, we're going this way. The manifesters who are in really high expression, they just have really charged energy. They like, they tend to. You get swept up in their wake or you're totally put off by their power, one or the other. If they're in high energy, you're probably going to be. You're going to say, like, I want to go along with them. I don't, I don't even know why. I just trust that where they say they're going, they'll get to generators and manifesting generators. We have a sacred. We're. We're sacral beings. We are here to do the things that we love. We are here to. We learn about ourselves through the things that we do. So we're responding to life. So sacral says, aha, or we are going to move on that thing or not move based on what it tells us. We're really saying, like, I want to do this or I don't. But it's not an idea like the manifesters have. It's. It's response. So it's something like, I talked to a friend the other day and we were, we were in conversation. It was a great conversation. I went to her website to look at something because I was like, aha. I want to look more at what she's doing. I'm so taken in by what, what she's doing. I went to her website, I looked at the offers that she has. I got an idea for something. I was like, aha. I kind of followed this little breadcrumb trail and now I think I have an idea for something that I'm going to bring into the world. I'm still waiting out my authority on it, but that's how I'm like picking up the breadcrumbs of life and allowing that to guide me rather than sitting here being like, what should I do next?

Right.

Nothing happens for generators when we are in that. What should I do now? That's how we end up frustrated. And you probably noticed, like, if you're a generator, 70% of the world are generators, manifesting or otherwise. We kind of split almost in half there. But where if you've tried to do something as a generator, you probably feel like you're stalled, you feel like you feel stuck.

But being with one, I see that a lot. Yeah, I see that in him a lot too.

And manifesting generators, we have the same strategy to respond, just manifesting generators. We do have a bit of that manifester energy where we want to create new things all the time. We want to move on new stuff. We get excited about new things. We're more multi passionate. But you're seeing what life gives you and then you're moving on it. So if you are listening to a podcast right, like right now, and you get this, oh, I want to look into human design more. Oh, I want to dive into the enneagram more. Then you feel like, then you're riding the wave of response and you'll find that things just open up for you. And when you follow that, better things happen.

Yeah.

Projectors, they have this penetrating aura. They are the guides of our society. They are really here to be wise about other people. Generators, we're here to learn about ourselves. Manifesters, they're here to tell us where we're going and have more vision for the collective. Generators, we learn about ourselves. Projectors, they learn about. They learn about themselves through the other. They learn about life through how they help others. They know more about other people than they necessarily do about themselves. They have what we call a penetrating aura.

Ask you something about that. So typically, I like, I love projector teachers. However, part of my eightness manifesting generator is poking holes. And like, do they even know who they are? Is that because of their projector ways? It's like they're here to teach, but they haven't walked maybe the walk yet. Is that me being judgy or is that just like the way it is?

There could be a little bit of the profile in there that you're. You're getting. You're getting that they are. You also might be a little bit put off. Have you asked them to kind of step into and tell you what they want to tell you? That's why their strategy is to wait for the invitation.

Yeah.

Otherwise it becomes kind of a know it all and the trajectory. I would say like they have a. They have a penetrating aura, which means it's sort of like enters you which intrusive.

Like sometimes it's intrusive and sometimes it's respected and like welcome.

Everybody wants to be penetrated without being asked for consent first.

These are.

So that's. So that's where. That's where the waiting for invitation is. It's not a hindrance. It's actually when it's asked for, it will be seen very, very differently than when you just offer it up as a. As a projector. So they're here to be the guides, but they're only here to guide the people who ask them to. So that's usually where they end up in their they're not self theme of bitterness, which is when they're putting all this great stuff out there and they're going, nobody's recognizing me. Why isn't anyone seeing me? I feel like I'm invisible. I feel like nobody's listening. That's a typical projector in their not self. We want to move out of that where don't put out so much, right. Hang out, be awesome and trust that the invitations will come. That's kind of part of the practice. And then we have reflectors, which they are about 1% of the population. There are unicorns. We don't have lots of them, but they're really here. They have what we call a sampling aura where they're. They're sort of. They know about the community, they know about the greater group around them. They can understand things on a really deep, energetic level. They're here. Like in a perfect world, every community would have a reflector in it. That's telling you whether the vibe is right or not, whether things are good or not. The canary in the coal mine is what they call them. The example I always give is Margaret Atwood is a reflector. She's the woman who wrote the Handmaid's Tale. So this is like. This is an illustration, whether you agree with the book or not.

No, it's great. It's great.

It's an illustration of the way she. What she picks up on in society, in our greater society is that there is a fundamental problem. And her way of calling out the problem that she sees is she wrote this whole fantasy world built in dystopian world based on our world, based on what she sees as the major dysfunction between the patriarchy, power and women's place in society. So that's her reflection. So she's Reflecting back reflectors reflect the whole.

Interesting.

So they have a very interesting path. Like I said, there's not very many of them. They're really, really rare.

Okay, so tell me, like when I see the numbers in human design, I don't really know what that means. I know the profile 5 1. I know that I have it. I don't really know exactly what it means based other than like the little bit that you told me because like I said, my daughter is a manifesting generator as well. But she is a 3 5. What is the difference between like a 35 and a 15 or a 5 1? Does it matter which one goes first?

First of all, it does.

Okay, so she's a 3 5, I'm a 5 1.

And is she a manifester or Manifesting Generator?

She's a manifesting generator.

Okay, so the five one having the five in the front, that's going to be the front and center piece of you. That's going to be the part that you probably most closely align with that. If I were to describe the two, you'll, you'll. You'll feel both of them. But the one's working more in the background. It's unconscious, as we call it. And the five conscious side. So for her, the three is the conscious side. The three is. The three is. They call it the martyr. Really what that's about is they really love new. Love new things in enneagram7.

So that makes a lot of sense.

Yeah. And they're, they're known for. I'm going to use the term for breaking stuff. In the highest expression. A3 is just about like, let me get in there, try that. I don't need to read about it. I don't need training. I really just want to do the thing like they're a learn by doing kind of person. My husband is a 3 5. He's a really good example of this. He's a computer programmer. He's a really top programmer, architect in E commerce and completely self taught. No computer science degree or anything like that. And he runs circles around people who went to fancy Ivy League schools. And it's because all he does is he comes onto a project, they're like, well, we can catch you up with a meeting. And he was like, just give me a sandbox to play and I will figure it out. And something that took them weeks to not get to an answer with, he can fix in a couple days. It's amazing what he does. That's a 35 working really, really in high frequency. They go in and they don't care about failure. They don't care if it breaks because they're like, that's how I learn. I break it and then I learn how it works. They're the kid that takes apart the phone back in the old days, and you come and all the things are taken apart, and then they learn how to put it back together. And P.S. they learned how to make a newer version of it. That's better. That's a three. The five on the back end of that is the leadership. That's the universalization. That's the leadership quality. So where that comes from is the five is in the background peeking out behind this experimenter three that's saying, like, I can be a leader. I can be a leader. Hey, hey, if you see me, I have a better way of doing this. But it's not the front and center piece. The five in the front is leading with the leader. The universalization, the practical aspects.

And what is the one aspect that for me and you that is more subconscious?

So the one is the investigator. That's the investigator. The one is the expert. So that's my one line was an example. Human design comes into my life. I get a taste of it. My sacral is like, lit up. I am so excited by this. So my manifesting generator, My generator is turned on every time I touch anything that has to do with human design, I'm like, oh, my God, I love this. So what do I do? I buy every single book that Amazon has. I buy a program. I did not get certified right away. I went into my. My experiment and played with it, and I really grappled with it for a long time. Do I need another certification? You said no more. You said you don't need any more of this type of training. But I loved it so much. And fireworks went off inside of me every time I encountered anything to do with human design. So this is me where the one line wants to, like, hunker down, be by itself. Usually like, leave me alone while I go learn all.

Which is really good as a seven. Because the five in. In Enneagram is like the five cave where you need to create the container and the environment for you to birth all these beautiful visions.

Exactly. And this is one of the things that when you were explaining how the Enneagram worked, I was like, oh, my God, this is my one. Because that was a huge, huge learning experience for me and a big. A big leap for me in my personal growth was embracing my one line and really nurturing it. So not Letting the Five lead, where the five is like, let's go put it out there. Let's go tell everyone. Let's go do this. Or the Five can hide, because the Five has this.

I can do that, too.

We call a projection field, which is people want something from the Five. They see that the Fives can help. They see that the Fives have something to offer. Maybe, maybe not. We do have things to offer. Do we have what they need? We don't really know that they project onto the 5. I want this from you. It's up to us to have such stability and foundation in the One, to know, can I fulfill the projection this person is throwing on me now? We can't always know what they're projecting. Some people have expectations that we are not privy to. But if someone comes to me and they say that they want me to help them grow on Instagram and have like, a. Then I'm like, the Five in me is like, I can do anything. Yeah. But the One is like, that is not our area of expertise. You should find somebody else. But if you come to me wanting to transform and know yourself on a deep, deep soul level, I can help you with that.

So let's talk about the few other ones before we dive a little bit deeper into my chart. Specifically, what if somebody leads with a. Like, a 4?

6. Sure. So the 4 is the networker. We call it the opportunist is what it's called in traditional human design. Don't take these names too literally, because they don't sound very nice. The Four is really about personal connection. They're here to have an impact on the people who are close to them and the people. So the people they know and the people those people know. So it'll always be some degrees of separation between them and those people. The closer the better and the more they become a networker. So the Four is just. It's. Relationships are everything for the Four. Everything in their world. Every opportunity comes from their network, from the people that they know. They're not casting the wide net. They're going deep.

What is the darker side of a Four line at the front end?

I mean, they can have. They can have shallow relationships. They can be very fixed in their way, like, immovable. This is the way it's always been the way, and they can use that. So, like, in. In the lowest expression of that, it would be someone who says. Who has a deep influence on people who are very close to them. And people around them want to change. They want to maybe vote something new. In or see things a different way before is saying it's always been this way and this is how it's always going to be. And they work their room and they work the people around it and they make sure that that vote, and I'm using this as a metaphorical vote, they would use their influence on the close knit community that they have to poo poo any type of change.

And what does the six do in the subconscious for somebody who leads with the four?

The six is really.

So my son leads. My son leads with the six and has a two backup. The boyfriend is a four six. So I'm like seeing all these intertwines going on the four six profile.

Like the six is the role model. So the six is. It goes through three stages of life where the first stage from until they're 30 years old, there are three. And that means that they're bumping into life and life is bumping into them. They're making those same mistakes that the three line does. But there's always this sense that there's more. Whereas the 3 is like I'm going to do this for the rest of my life. I'm going to be like running around breaking things for the rest of my life and trying things and evolving. And the six is going. I'm going to evolve in a different way. I don't know how, I don't even know. It's like this, this thing that they don't really know is happening and they go around for 30 years and they can have some people experience this as like I tried everything, I experimented with life and I lived those first 30 years. Then the second half is the second third is from 30 to 50. They do what we call climbing up on the roof and they become the observer. This is the process of becoming the role model. The Buddha on the hill, basically that they are. I did everything in the low expression. They have deep shame about the things that they screwed up in those first 30 years. In the high expression, they're like, I was just like I was living life.

And then they climb up on the roof at 30 and now they're observing everything. And they become on the roof they're aloof. They kind of hang up out there and they're looking around and they're observing life and they're seeing what's happening. And now they're learning. They learn through doing in the first 30 years, whether they know it or not that they were doing that and now they're learning by watching. Now what happens with a lot of people with the 6 line, they climb up on the roof, they get to that level, and then they are wondering, what's wrong with me. I used to be able to do so much more. Why do I feel withdrawn from life? Why do I feel like I can't try things anymore? And it's really. That's why this can be powerful to know. If you're a six line, there's nothing wrong with you. If you're 35 years old and you're wondering, why has life slowed down so much? Why do I feel withdrawn? It's a natural part of your process and it is a necessary part. This is where you're going to contemplate things and you're seeing things. We call it up on the roof and not locked in a room for a reason, because you're sitting up high and you're watching things from a very different perspective than the rest of us. Trust that. And then when you get to the 50 mark, which is your chiron, kieran, whatever you call it, return, then you become the role model. You come down off the roof and you share what you have seen and what you have done. I've learned it, I've learned it. I know it all from. I've done it all and I've seen it all. And now I have a very different perspective on life than the rest of you. Let me share it with you. All of these phases are necessary. So a lot of people, I have a lot of sixes that come to me usually around, like, their late 40s, 50s, and they're just like, I feel a change coming and they don't know what. What's happening. And I'm like, oh, you're a six line. There's a reason. There is literally a change coming. You're experiencing an energetic shift.

So what is the two? Because that's the only one we haven't talked about. Right, right.

So the two line is the natural. It's also known as the hermit. The one is, is like reading all the books. The three is trying all the things. The two just kind of knows the two. Like, just things come naturally to the two. They're the ones that just sort of like, they don't really have to study necessarily as much. And the high expression of that is they're just good at things and they trust that and they don't really question it. The low expression is they wonder, am I really this good? Can I really be trusted to be called out? Because that's what they do. The twos, people look into them. The fives People look at us and see what they need to see. They see some sort of reflection of themselves, what they need from us. The two, they look right into them and they go, oh, I bet you could be this. Oh, you know, you'd be so good at that.

So those of us that lead with the five, do we tend to go through people in our lives? I think you and I chatted about this because the projection thing is very, very real. And depending on where we're at, sometimes that projection is something really beautiful, especially when it comes to leadership and where they're headed. And if that's too uncomfortable for them, they might project some other stuff. Does that happen a lot to five? Specifically?

Yes.

Yeah.

I figured there can be many reasons for it.

Sure.

Roughly. Like, what it really is is that. And this is something that I've. I recognize that I have a role. So the five is five and six. If you have that in the front, you're what we call transpersonal. You're not here for yourself. Everybody. You and I have some sort of karma together. Not karma and, like, bad things, like we have to. But we were brought together for a reason, because particularly, two Fives are not going to accidentally meet. But fives don't meet anyone by accident. We have some sort of role to play in someone's life, or they have a role to play in ours, or a little bit of both. And I have come to accept that. That my role in your movie might be lifelong or it might be very short. And I.

That poem, Season, Reason, Lifetime, I. I have to really embrace that because it's been hard. Like, once I've learned to accept it, it doesn't feel as personal, even though it can. It isn't personal, even though it can feel very personal sometimes.

I took it very personally for many years, and even when I learned about this, I was just like. I was like, I don't want to be a five. It doesn'.

Good. Yeah. Right.

Can I roll again, please? I don't know if I want this one. Can I just be like a 1, 3. And have my own destiny? But I embrace it now. And I recognize. And some people stay forever. I've been my husband 18 years. Yeah, some people stay, but. But many don't. Or, you know, because we're practical in nature and because we are. We're here to. We're here. We use universalize as a term. So you're universalizing enneagram. You're talking about it in a way that nobody does. You are. You're bringing it down to Earth. You're showing people how they can use it. You're taking something that other people can't really explain, and you're cutting right to the heart of it. It's what you're here to do. That's. That's a high expression of that 5. 1. People are going to come to you looking for something, and whether it's that or something else or something, they're going to look at you and say, you can help me with this, because the 5 is also the archetype of the savior, the fixer. I do know a bit of your story from you speaking on stage about your family, how even from a really young age, this is very common. I hear this with five ones a lot, myself included. The rock. Like, why is your parent looking to you when you're like, six to be the rock? They sense that you can do it. Yep, they sense that you can. And, like, I'm looking at your chart right now, and you have gate 21 is your conscious sun, which is, like, our biggest energy. That's the light, your life theme.

Oh, what does that mean?

The gate of control. So, like, when I saw that, like, that's why you gave me your. Right before we hopped on, Tracy gave me her information, and I. I popped it into the chart tool, and I was like, oh, 21. That's interesting. What does that mean?

Yeah, what does that mean?

Well, it's the. It's the. They call the gate of biting through. So what's interesting is. So that's a. That's where your five sits, is with the gate 21. So when we look at the line, we're looking at the gate, and then the line gives us the vibe of the gate. So if you were a one, you'd have the investigator side of this, but you don't. You have the heretic, the. The savior, the fixer. So you could be a control freak. Is. Is one of the. The ways that this can happen?

There are moments. There are moments for sure.

Well, I. I think there's also a little bit of your enneagram8 in here, too. This is manifestory energy. It's not. It's not here to respond. It's. It's tied to the ego. It says, like, I want it. I can do this. And it's very much tied to the survival of the tribe, however you define tribe. Is it your tribe? The people that are listening to this show right now, the people who are in your audience, the. Your family, your friends, and. And I know you have said you've I, I forget how you put it, but basically don't step to the people that I'm close to because I will cut you. Is basically kind of the.

Yes. And, and I will bury your body and nobody will find it. Basically.

Exactly. There it is.

Is that 21, is that like very much okay?

Yes. It's, it's about the survival of the tribe. It's, it's the, the hunter, huntress. I go get what the tribe needs. I will get it, I will give it to you. So the fact that, that from a very young age that your parents were sensing that you had the ability to come in and save them in a way of, of helping the tribe survive, I think is, is these are some of the things that at. When I look at charts, and I've only had your chart for a few minutes, but like looking at it just like, ah, that's interesting. So that's like a point for contemplation. That's a point for like what I work with people on is, okay, well now let's work on what that means to you and, and, and how that has shown up and how can we lean into the highest expression of this always?

Is that also why, like, usually I get people to work with me when they've exhausted other avenues and they've resisted doing this bigger stuff, but they know that I can be the one that takes them to it.

There's a number of things that that could be coming from. You know, you have a lot of power. It's funny, you have, you're very. Tell it like it is. Your channels are charisma, the brainwave and power. And charisma is all about saying the right thing at the right time. Just being in response to things and just comes right out your mouth. Not thinking about it. It just, it just happens. And power is all about intuition and just being very, very intuitive about what needs to be said and what needs to be done. Just knowing things. The 5:1 aspect and the 20:1 certainly sitting there up top. The 20:1 is grounded by the gate 48, which is the gate of depth. So with all that control and with all of that power, there's also this tremendous amount of depth. The 5:1 does not, does tend to put people back on their heels sometimes. Especially like with you leading with the 21 with you, you have it's big energy on big energy. My five sits in my head center. It's all about illumination. I'm here to change the way people think. That's kind of. I'm here to show you different ways of thinking and being and very illumination kind of stuff. People still get put back on their heels with my energy, but there's a different vibe to it. Where 21 is.

Is. It's.

It's ego energy. It's. It's willpower, it's drive, it's determination, and it's like, I will bury your body and no one will find it. Like, it can. It can have that vibe to it.

And I will help you change your life.

Exactly. And I think that, you know, there are some aspects in your design where opening up to those more might be more inviting. And if that's your goal, like, just.

And I have. And I have, like, honestly, like, there's no way I could have done this work 10 years ago because I led heavy with that ego.

Yeah.

It was to prove it than to serve.

And. And that's part of your growth pattern. I also see that you have an open G center, and your. Your ego is open. It's not a defined ego. It's not here to prove what is.

An open G center mean?

That's the identity center, the G center. That's the heart. So the centers in human design are roughly tied to, like, the Hindu chakra system, only we have nine of them instead of seven. The heart splits off into two. I look at it like the feminine and masculine side of heart chakra, which would be the love. I love humanity. I love self. I love my body. I love, like, just that, like, feminine energy of the heart. And then the ego will drive of, like, put your heart into it. These are like the two aspects of it. The G center is the center that says, like, I know who I am now. When you have it undefined, your idea of yourself is malleable. You don't have. And even though you're. You're very grounded in self. But now. Now. But with that open G center, the beauty of it is. And I always think it's so interesting when it's people who do deep work with people that you reflect back to people who they are. You see what they can't see. You pick it up on an energetic level because it's open. You're feeling other people's stuff. Now in the low expression, when we don't know what that is, when we have that open, we can pick up. We can pick other people's stuff up and think that it's us. And that can cause people with the open G to have identity codependency stuff. Codependency. Thinking that the problem is them when they're in an environment that's not correct, and it's really the environment. But when it's in, when you learn that stuff and when you clean it out, then you have the real deep ability to just. You don't need to hear someone talk. You don't need to really hear their story to know their story and to know who they are or at least what they're bringing in in that moment. So deep, powerful work there. That's possible. Not everybody. The five line is just like the projectors. It needs to be invited.

Yeah.

So we can't push it. We can't go after it. We just have to put it out. Which is why tools like podcasts are so great, because people can elect to listen and they can turn it off if they don't want to hear what we have to say, but it's always there for them to come back to. I like this medium for fives in particular, because it's a way for us to put the message out there, and when they're ready, they can come and.

Call us up for sure. If you're looking at my chart, because I want people to. To kind of get a taste of what you can do in a reading with somebody else. Like, literally, you had my chart five minutes before we hit record. If you're looking at my chart, what are some things that stand out where I might have challenges, and what are things like that confirm? Like, I'm doing what I should be doing just by looking at the chart. Because I can look at an enneagram chart and know, like, okay, this is what this person is probably struggling with. With and why they're here with me. And also, like, reinforce, like, keep going in that direction.

Yeah, totally. So just for those of you who know anything about the body graph, Tracy has the sacral center defined, her spleen defined, and her throat center defined. And the rest of it is. Is all undefined. Where I look here first is I go to the ego and to the. To the undefined ego and the undefined emotional center. That. That the undefined ego will. The rabbit hole you can go down. That is an energy leak, is trying to prove yourself and trying to prop yourself up and pouring a lot of energy into that. You are better off leaning into what makes you feel good. And when you're doing something that you enjoy. So speaking, I think is a very natural area for you. That would definitely be something that I should be, like, do as much of that as possible with that channel of charisma, that energy of. I don't need to Think about what I'm going to say. The right thing will come out. If I'm trusting myself and if I'm grounded that. That 5:1, in that expertise I'm speaking about something I should be speaking about, then it will come out. The one thing I would watch out for is speaking out of turn over talking, speaking over people or not listening enough. Although you do have the gate of the listener, so there is that. I would lean into just those aspects. That would be something that I would make sure that you felt very strong in, which I think you do.

But I do catch myself though, that five can sometimes be a little intrusive to other people. Sometimes where I know I can say something profound that will help them. But sometimes I have to sit back a little bit longer. I'm. I've really learned how to sit back and listen. I mean. I mean I'm a great listener, but to not always interject unless it's invited. I've had to learn that one a lot. I catch myself.

Still, I'm sure your daughter was a big expander for you in that way, like learning experience. Because the 3. 5, 1. Yeah. Like I believe my husband was brought into my life to be that reflection all the time of where my expertise is needed or not. It doesn't always feel good for either one of us. But. But the 35 and the 51 in particular. The 3 is always like in our mind screwing things up or. Or doing things inefficiently or we see a better way and it's their way.

But oh yeah, and her being a seven as well, like sevens and eights can be great together. But if I'm over talking her and cutting her off like it's an explosion. Which also makes sense with the three and the five.

Exactly. Because the five's in there for both of you. And don't forget the projection is there. She's just. It's projecting on her unconscious side. So what do you want her to be? What are you trying to make her? What are you trying to guide her toward? We have great intentions, but there's always that projection field. So that is something that know it's happening to you, but it's also happening to other people that even if you don't have your. Their chart, they might be a 5. I'm always interested in that. I do that with celebrities all the time. I say things, I start to guess like celebrities.

Like I wonder what they are.

Taylor Swift, five' one. Is she Harry? Yes. Harry Styles, five one.

Really?

Madonna, five one All These people, polarizing figures, people who, like, we think we know them. And you notice that their evolution has been about using the projection and instead of being a victim to the projection. So that's the big step with the 5:1, and that's the. What I call navigating the projection field, Understanding it and using it to expand yourself and instead of running and hiding, which is what the 51 can do. So I would really encourage you to look at where do you recede and are you. And sometimes you will need to do that sometimes because the projections are happening even if people are not saying anything. They're projecting on you all the time. And that can be energetically draining. So recognize that sometimes you're gonna have to probably pull away. You're gonna be out and about, you're gonna be doing a bunch of things, and then you probably need to go and nurture yourself alone.

Yeah.

Away from all of that, you're an open emotional center as well. This is. This is a big one for anybody who has the emotional center open, the solar plexus open. Avoiding confrontation and truth. So that's kind of the not self theme of this, is not dealing with the emotions, not wanting to go into them. I think you're at a point where you have learned that lesson, but that is something that I'm always looking at. Have you processed all of your emotions? Because people who have the emotional center open usually are icked out by, like, emotions because it's just like, it's uncomfortable, it's foreign because you're feeling what other people are feeling. It's not. The emotions aren't necessarily coming from inside of you. But someone who's emotional walks into the room and you feel that deeply. The reactive or repressed side of that is the repressed side is, get me away from here. I got to get out of here. And the reactive side is, let me fix it. Let me fix your emotions. So looking at. I don't know if anyone in your home or in your life is an emotional authority. If they're emotional, then you may find that it's uncomfortable. Or you might want to fix their emotions. Is what usually happens. If you're like five typically want to fix things.

So that would be the reactive side.

I'm looking. So everybody in my life is a gut. My son. My son is the wait for clarity one. What does that mean?

Emotional?

Yeah, he's my emotional one.

Okay. Yeah. So. So he might have the biggest charge in that. In that way emotionally, like where you want to either not want to deal with it it on the repressed side or the reactive side would be like, let me fix you, baby. How can I make you feel better? Like where the helicopter parent like, let me. Let me fix it. Let me. And that's just an energetic thing. You feel something's wrong with my baby, you're not well. And meanwhile, he's not really that bad. It's just how he is.

But you follow an enneagram too, and he's a Pisces on top of it, so makes total sense. Everybody else in my life, the boyfriend, my daughter, and my daughter's boyfriend, they're all sacral.

Well, that's good. That, that's good. He's setting you all off though. But there's a. There's a good ratio there.

We all love him.

I'm the only emotional. My. My son and my husband are not so. And. And I'm cognizant of that too. Like, I know that if I'm in an emotional place that I should probably process that alone before really spending a lot of time with them or recognizing that I might throw emotions on them. And I don't want to do that. That. Yeah, your open root center can lead you to run around trying to do things that don't really need to get done. Out of a feeling of, I got to get rid of this, I got to get rid of this. I got to get rid of this. Like, I gotta. What's the next thing? I gotta get this done. I gotta get this done. There's that pressure to, if I don't do this, then I won't evolve. If I don't do this, then I won't grow. If I don't do this. And that can feel like it never ends. So it's about recognizing that and asking yourself good questions like, does this really need to get done now? Or is this me trying to relieve the pressure because it's making me uncomfortable. All of these things that I'm bringing up, this, the emotions, the. The pressure, it's all pulling you away from the one truth, which is what lights you up is the direction that you go in. Do more of it. Follow that trust, that trust the gut. Does my sacral say yes, then I go. Does my sacral say no, then I don't. That's the core of everything. If you're in an environment that is not feeling good, it's probably not. You exit and. And recheck yourself. These are ways that you just start to understand who you are on such a deep, deep level that you don't Question yourself. You don't question your decisions. And you're, you've done a lot of work. So a lot of this is probably things like that you've done through the Enneagram. This is just another way in for, for a lot of.

I know that you listening right now. Want another way in. I know you come here for Enneagram and all of that. And I'm so grateful that I met you, Nicole. Like, not for just human design, but on a soul level. Like you said, fives don't meet each other by accident. I firmly believe that. But I know there's a lot of you listening right now that wants to dive deeper. What does a reading look like with you and where can they go and get theirs today? Because like I'm sitting here, I'm like, I want Casey, I want Joey, I want Aaron. I want everybody to kind of dive in with you. Where can my audience dive in with you and get this beautiful, brilliant, wise counsel when it comes to human design from you?

Yeah, absolutely. So my readings are 90 minute readings where we dive into your entire chart. We go through all the foundations, depending on where you're at with, with human design. But I go through some of the, all of that I describe. I. I discussed with you and, and deeper. We go through every center and give you kind of a plan for how your energy works, how it can be used efficiently. Because I'm really about practical applications of this. So what, what's going to give you the quickest wins? And then what are you away from the reading? What are you working on so that you can continue your growth beyond just the time that we are together? It's a live reading. So there's the opportunity obviously to ask questions throughout the whole thing. But I look at every chart is different. There's always something different that's jumping out at me. And I focus on those areas that I think will get you to your goals. I ask you questions at the beginning of the reading, when you sign up, what are your goals? What are you experiencing? And then I see what the chart is telling me to help you start correcting those aspects, to get the most bang for your buck out of that.

I love it and I agree with you. I can talk to somebody one time about the ideogram and their framework and all the components to it, and then see them somewhere else. Like if you and I dove in again on your stuff, I would see other things. I love that there's so much complexities to this. It's not complicated, but I mean, we're humans, human design. It's not just like, there's your thing and this is what you are. I love that you take it deeper and deeper and deeper.

Well, and don't you feel like the Enneagram still is opening things up for you? Even with all I'm saying? Constantly, every single day, every day I have some realization. I have some, like, aha. I have something that I'm like, that drops in deeper. And so the. The work never ends. You just. It just gets better and better and deeper and deeper. So it's the jumping off point. The reading is. Is I think, the opportunity to take the things that we were talking on the show and more generalities to say, like, this is how this shows up for you. Oh, this. Because everything, it's not just about what you have, it's about how it interacts with the other things that you have or that you don'. Consistently. And understanding that synthesis of how all of your energy works is really what we dive into in a reading.

So, first of all, Instagram, where can they find you? Where can they go sign up right now and get a reading? And also, I know you have a Facebook group too, that I'm part of, and I'm a fly on the wall there too, and learning from you. Where can they go for all three of those things? But first, where can they get a reading, like, tomorrow?

So if you go to my website, there's a Work with me section, but we also have a little page that we set up which has all the links to all of these things to make it very, very easy. If you just go to NicoleLaino Me.

Podcast links, and then you'll get, like, everything that we've got going on. There'll be the link for the readings, the Facebook group, our free guides, and all the stuff are there right there for you.

Spell your full name. It'll be in the show notes and everything. But, like, because you're.

You're still.

Their spelling is a little different than maybe they know.

That's true. My Instagram is Nicole Lano official, but Nicole Lano is N, I C O L E L A I N O. And then it's.me forward/podcast links.

You guys, seriously, what a treat for you. Definitely a treat for me. Nicole, I appreciate you and your wisdom and your heart of service and just being in integrity with using this tool. Because, like you and I have talked about, any tool can be used, not always for good. And it's just so refreshing and powerful to be able to lean into somebody who does it for all the right reasons and in integrity and is constantly a student herself. I appreciate you. I love you. You guys. I would love if you love this episode, if you wouldn't mind sharing it. You can tag me and tag Nicole. Or if you just tag me, I'll make sure she gets tagged in it as well. We would love to hear all the aha. Like, my mind is blown. I can't wait to dive deeper with you, Nicole. Any last words for the person listening that maybe wants to dive deeper but is a little bit of afraid?

Whether you're trying to grow your business or you're trying to just live a better life, Clarity of self is the foundation of all of it. Everything else is just sort of a distraction. And until then, that, that you talked about, Tracy, about people kind of coming to you after they've exhausted all the other avenues. Human design, Enneagram, whatever the tool that speaks to you the most is just know that understanding how to master yourself will make all of those other tools, strategies and everything else that you're trying to make work right now easy.

Yep. I agree. I agree. Thank you so much for being here, you guys. As always, I appreciate the time and investment you make to show up on our beautiful show over here. As always, you know I want to wish you much love and transformation in your life. Please find us on Instagram at Tracy Underscore o'. Malley.

And if you love this, go share.

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