EP351: Breaking Through Traumas of the Past with Courage—with SX Enneagram 6 Brittany Furnari Fisher

Okay, I know you may have heard about the Enneagram or someone told you you need to know all about it. So here you are. But what the hell do you do with it? Great news. You are in the right place. Lead with the Enneagram is the show where you will actually learn how to use this incredible growth tool and apply it in all areas of your life, personally and professional. Hi, I'm Tracy. And to be honest with you, I was a skeptic of the Enneagram before I started to actually integrate it into my life. In fact, in true enneagram 8 style, I told my therapist to F off when she wanted me to dive into it well over a decade ago. Now that I have more than a decade of experience using the Enneagram and working on myself in my family with those closest to me, building my own bulletproof leadership, sales teams with one on one clients, couples, leading workshops for top Fortune 100 executives, and speaking to large audiences all across the globe about this powerful tool. I've got the proof and deep understanding of how to help you implement this into your life instead of it just being some fun thing you heard about. The Enneagram can be a complex model. But with me as your guide, I will show you how to first lead yourself in a powerful, effective and compassionate way, and then help you lead others that way in your life as well. This podcast will have powerful conversations with guests, live typing sessions, as well as solo episodes of breaking down dynamics of the Enneagram and how they impact your life, career and relationships. So now let's dive in.

Hello.

Welcome back to another episode of Lead with the Enneagram. And it's another special episode where I get to bring somebody on that not only is into the Enneagram, but has actually been in the trench with me, like very, very intimately. And when I met this beautiful woman, she's very fierce and very intense and powerful, and her smile and her energy, like, blow up a room in all the most beautiful ways. I will say that. And I could also feel the tremendous pain that had gone unhealed or didn't feel safe enough to actually be talked about. And I got to spend almost three days with Brittany and dive deep into not only the Enneagram, but a lot of the shit that she hadn't felt safe enough to talk about, even in multiple, multiple years of therapy. And so when I met her and through talking with her, I knew that she resembles a lot of you. Type A go getting fierce, badass women out there that you get into life, relationships, entrepreneurship, business, Parenting even. And you realize, oh, shit, oh shit, I still have this stuff I've been sweeping under the rug that, you know, if I don't repair it, I'm gonna repeat it or it's gonna get repeated, or eventually it's gonna take me out in a time and a place that is inconvenient, fun, inexpensive, or anything good. Right. And so I asked her to be on the show because I think she does, first of all, represent a lot of women like you and people that love women like us. But also I think that her humility and her willingness to go deep at a time with some big shit trauma with somebody really helps all of us. And when we allow ourselves to be vulnerable, that is the real flex. No matter how intense and how much she can enter a room and that energy kind of owns it. Where her real power came is in her vulnerability. And I thought she was the perfect person to bring to you to show what that really looks like. So. Hi, Brit.

Hey.

Hey, Trace.

Hi. Welcome.

So she's an enneagram 6. She's a one on one enneagram 6 with the 6, 3, 8 tri type. So she's also known as the justice fighter and no surprise there in getting to know her. But as an enneagram 6, the loyal skeptic, they are motivated by a need for certainty and to be prepared. And their worst case scenario is being blindsided. So this makes them fricking great strategists, amazing collaborators, very detail oriented. They do what they say they're going to do. They're in integrity. And on the flip side of that, like, they're hard to earn trust and they can get paralyzed by that need for certainty and their incessant questioning. And so like finding the sweet spot in the middle where that need for certainty is actually your superpower and not the kryptonite is something that we explored together in an in person retreat. So, Britt, before we get into all the questions and all the things, what made you click? Yes, I want to go and apply to be at that retreat and then actually pull the trigger on it.

Man, I was so scared. So I was terrified. But kind of like you had mentioned, I had been in therapy for years and years and years. I understood I could explain to you front, ways back, ways sideways, exactly what happened to me, exactly what I made it mean, exactly where my biggest blocks were. And I felt like I was at the point where the only thing that I had not done yet is go out in the real world and go meet people and go put all of these beautiful skills that I had hopefully learned and acquired into practice and see if I was actually worth a damn, you know, to see if I actually got all those skills and. And could really integrate them or if I just understood them and, you know, on a more cerebral level.

I want to touch on that because that is a common theme and the most fucked up part about personal development and even therapy sometimes. And I'm a huge, like, advisor of like, yes to therapy. I believe in it. I'm in it, like. But I think the problem that you just touched on, that many people are experiencing right now, from the neck up, you absolutely understand everything that happened. You understand maybe even why some of the most heinous shit has happened when you kind of look at the lineage and all the shit that that comes up. But if we only have a cognitive, comprehensive understanding from the neck up, but we're neck down dead and haven't actually felt and grieved and felt the full scope of human emotions, not just anger like you and I love, like, we love anger. We could eat it for breakfast. It makes us feel like we're in control and have certainty. But the emotions of sadness, even joy, you and I have a hard time with joy because we're waiting for the shoe to drop. So that being said, was it in that weekend that you had the aha that you understood from the neck up, from the neck down, you're like, oh, I don't know how to feel any of this, though.

That's exactly what it was. I. So I did it. Which I was so proud of myself for. I mean, like, I cried in front of people. I can't tell you how many people who I love and trust and who are in my life and have been in my life my entire life, you know, the friends that I have, I guess in proper, loyal, skeptic style, my good, close friends. I've honestly maintained most of my very good friendships. I don't have a million of them, but my really good close friendships I feel like I've maintained really well. And they didn't. They haven't seen me cry. And I think when I left that retreat, I was like, I need to go tell my people who I am and give them a chance. Like, give them a chance to love me for all of me. Not just the good parts, but all the bad and ugly parts too, because they're still all me. And I think what I realized on that retreat was the shit that I'd been carrying around my entire life was so exhaustingly heavy. And it was Preventing me from showing up as who I am. Even if that means that some people in my life have to go or some people in my life don't want to stay along for the next part of my journey. I just was. I was ready to feel that lightness that I felt in that weekend.

So that being said, it's one thing to say that out loud like, yes, I'm willing to let go of anything, anyone that, you know, I might lose along the way in this growth journey. It's another thing, especially as an enneagram6, to go in blindly not knowing the outcome. So for any. For any type, more than, like, for sixes, more than any other type, that is scary as fuck. So did you go home and do that?

Did I go home and get terrified that I.

Like, before we get to that, before the plot twist or before we drop the plot on people, did you have a vulnerability hangover, crying in front of the 14, 15 of us that you did?

Oh, my God, absolutely. Yeah. It's all of those things where you just. I let those emotions out and then you feel stupid because it's like, oh, my gosh, all of your stuff comes up. And I had never had an opportunity like that before in my life because, like I said, I just locked that stuff so far down. So, yeah, it was the most massive vulnerability hangover that I was like, I did all of this to these women, you know, are they even going to want to talk to me after this? Do they think I'm the biggest, most scary, weird, problematic person in the entire world? Because I just shared with them that I have a PTSD diagnosis, and that is something that I coveted so close to my heart. It just felt like such a scarlet letter of a diagnosis when it was given to me, like, anxiety. I just kind of labeled myself that way before I went into therapy and honesty hour. I didn't ask my therapist what I was diagnosed with for two years because I didn't want to know.

Then you got to do something with it, right?

Yeah. And I didn't want to know.

One of the things I hate also about personal development and this thing. And that's why I take this responsibility very, very seriously, which, you know, says a lot about you and what you've been through and you as a six, that you trusted me enough to crack you open, not just in front of people, but to know that three days later I was going to send you on your way. And one of the things that really fucking makes me angry in the coaching space is cracking people open. And then not equipping them with integration tools when they leave and have the vulnerability hangover. And because you do have complex trauma and you have done the therapy and EMDR and like tons of shit like I have, you know, the enneagram is a whole different kind of tool. And diving in and trusting your journey with me and the women there, did you feel like you left with enough that you didn't like feel cracked open and left hanging? No. You could be. Honestly, no.

I felt like I got cracked open because the biggest. I knew, the biggest thing, the hardest thing for me to do was to show emotion in front of people and to also be dropping that diagnosis to complete strange. I mean, like, that to me, I knew that I had done something. Like, I came back and I was like. Like there have only been a handful of times in my life where I just felt like truly full heartedly proud of myself. One of those times was when I left my job as a speech therapist and I was like, I'm going to completely change careers because this does not feel aligned for me right now. And not for any other reason than that. It was just so self honoring. And another one of those times was after I left that retreat and I said, I know that I can say with 100% certainty that I showed up as my 100% self around these women and I did not feel left hanging. If anything, I feel like it was you shining a light bulb onto. You're not just a diagnosis. You are a whole person. And some of these things that you're doing, some of them could be trauma related, but some of them are you and it's okay. And there's ways that we can integrate.

This and there's ways we can discern it. Right. Like I'm a complex trauma survivor as well. And I also know that sometimes I will use some of my personality to protect those parts that feel really vulnerable. And there are times it's the trauma, right. And having the enneagram and other tools in my toolbox to move through that. So coming home with that experience, what were some of the things that you started integrating right away? I mean, you talked about your people and being really honest with them. Did you end up doing that?

I did so. And that was one of the scariest things for me.

Before you say that. What? Before you did it, obviously you're building the case in your head of all the worst case scenarios that could happen as an enneagram6. Right. What did you believe was the worst consequence that would come from you showing.

Them all of you I knew that one. I showed up so strong and so resilient, and I am those things. Even though I survived trauma, like, that does not go away. That is who I am. But I knew that the way that I showed up, my biggest fear was that people weren't going to take me seriously and were just going to think that I was saying, like, oh, all these terrible. That I was weak or that people were going to think that I was basically blowing smoke and that things were not as bad as I was saying that they were. And I think it was most. I mean, that was honestly the biggest reason I stayed quiet my entire life. I did not have the energy to be invalidated, but, like, by other people. So I was like, if I don't tell people and I just stay strong and I am, you know, I kind of power through and I keep my relationships with these people and I show them the good parts of me and the good sides of everything that's going on for me, then they won't think less of me. They. I won't be. And I guess the biggest thing is unsafe. I won't then be put on a stage of display for people to poke holes in what I know is true. So.

And then your certainty as a six, too. It's like, well, if I don't disclose, then I'm certain they can't be, like, they can't fuck me over or do whatever else they may possibly do. Right. Right. So how'd they receive you?

Amazing. And I. And I was like, you know, I. I really should have known. So it was like my tribe of women that I am the closest to, it was after I left that event. I basically called them one at a time who didn't know, and I said, hey, I just want to share this with you. I want you to know this about me. You know, I talked about this retreat, and I was like, I feel like you deserve to know this about me. And literally every single one of them, they didn't treat me differently. I think that one of my biggest fears was for them to either be afraid to say, you know, say certain things to me after that point or to feel like they had to be sensitive around me and like, I still couldn't handle stuff or anything like that. And not a single one of them had that feeling. A couple of them asked questions, which was really awesome because it was even things I didn't know about that diagnosis before I had it. And so I was able to kind of clarify and explain and most importantly, just kind of tell people a really Big part of my life that nobody really knew because I was able to kind of just keep it all on lock while giving them advice. 24. 7.

Right. Right. And that's something that, you know. Did you take the enneagram before?

I did. I took it, yep. Like the online test.

And did you mistype as an 8 originally?

I had, so I. I didn't even understand it. I had one eight and five that came up super high. I think six was, like, literally number four for me. Yeah.

On those other online attests, which are inaccurate, you know, but you do present very eight. Like, behaviorally, you do, but it's rooted in the motive of the six. And I, like, it was the first night, even before we dove into everything, you and I kind of sidebar a very long conversation because, you know, I could feel you and I attract women like this all the time. And I understand why, because you're the girl who says, I've done the work. I have to check the boxes.

La la la la la la la.

And you have, and you have, and. And there's more. And I think this is where that journey really began for you. Not negating the 10 years that you've done. Same I had done probably 14, 15 years of the work. And it wasn't until I understood, like, from the neck down and myself and the motives and all of that. What would you say before you showed up that weekend, was the thing that kept you up at night that you were struggling with, that maybe nobody knew about?

I think it was that. I think I felt like I was holding this armor of a scarlet letter. I felt like I couldn't even tell my family that diagnosis because I felt like they were going to take that personally or feel that I was, you know, and it's like, well, yeah, obviously the role was played. However, that's just not the way that I choose to look at all of that. And I think I was in a really unique situation where I kind of hit a wall with my family, where I was able to drive a wedge and say, take it or leave it. Things need to change, or I'm out. And I am so, like, so blessed. And I know that. That my family took that hand when I extended it out and basically said, fix it or I'm done. And they did. And they put so much effort into working on that. But I think that's what kept me up at night is I see how hard they're trying. I see the work that's been put in, but I still have this. And now it feels Even more. Like, I have to hide it. Because you have all these people that cut their parents off or cut grandparents off or cut their entire family off. And they're. Everyone's like, yay, good for you. Yeah, you cut them off. Or that toxic friend or that terrible ex, like, you're so strong, like, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, anybody that looks at this, if they know, then they're gonna be like, you're insane. Or, you know what? What's wrong with you? Are you codependent? Are you? And you know, And I'm just like, I know I'm not. And that's what kept me up at night, is I felt like I was literally concealing a huge part of my identity. Like everything negative felt concealed. It was exhausting.

You know, you said something so powerful around concealing that even from your family, because you could see the work they were doing and all of that, and discerning that that's not codependent, but giving some grace and not enabling. There's a fine line between compassion and giving people grace and codependency and enabling bullshit. Because we don't want them to leave or any of the things. And you're right. Like, thank goodness your family took you seriously and they weren't fucking around. And they're like, yeah, we will do what we need. Because when the black sheep of the family stands in that gap and says, no more, not on my fucking watch. Most often, it doesn't end with people raising their hand and saying, I will take accountability and do what I need to do.

Literally never. I didn't have any example that I could point to in my life or anything that I could find where that was the case. And, you know, I put a lot of work into going and putting my feelers out and saying, you know, who else is out here talking about this? And I felt like I couldn't find anything. So I was like, what's my rule book? Every one of these self help books is talking about these people. How to heal your inner child and heal yourself when you don't have those relationships anymore. And I'm like, well, what is this? How do I heal this one? You know, So, I mean, it's good.

That you have it. I mean, I have the opposite where it's like, they weren't willing to be accountable and it's okay, but it is easier because I can't get wrapped up in the old patterns with them, right? Where even though they're doing your family is doing some of the work, like, it's easy to slip into that pattern. And you know, this is what you're doing is the perfect example of when the black sheep becomes the goat. And you're the fucking cycle breaker. You are the cycle breaker and you're doing it within still family units. Are there times though that you find yourself see that they're trying, but it may be not what you need? And do you speak up about that?

Yeah, every single time. I think if there's anything that helped me through this healing process before I learned enneagram, before I learned integration, but just understanding it more cerebrally, it was inner child work. And like you said, I'm the justice warrior. There is not one damn person in my life that I watch an injustice happen that I am not there in their corner saying something. And again, it's not shouty. You know, that's not usually my game. But it's more so I can kind of analyze the situation. But I know that's.

Right. I was like, mine's not screaming, but I will watch it. And I was like, I'm not going to leave you by yourself. And if it goes on long enough, I will start injecting myself. And I think it became actually like the once I really, I think I was always fiery. Like even when I was little, I was fiery and I thought that that was bad that I was fiery. And the older that I got, I realized that that was exactly what made me unique and special and powerful and able to create change in the world. And so no, when people do, it's. I think it's actually easier for me though with my family than it is with coworkers, friends, people that I don't have that close relationship with. Yeah, speaking up feels really hard. But with, I feel like that wall already got broken down with my family. Like we already got to ground zero. So it is so easy for me to immediately, and I do immediately say this is what I need, this is what's not happening. This is how I'm going to separate myself if I need to.

So one of the things I see with justice warriors like yourself with that tri type is sometimes we will go in hot to a situation to save the world for other people as a bypass to not do that for ourselves. Like we feel strong in control and have certainty when we're saving the world for other people. When did you start to shift and recognize that you have to, you know, put your oxygen mask on first and be able to do that for your inner child who's running your show and the grown up you, the 30 year old you today that is operating in this world.

So I actually when I back when I worked as a speech therapist, I worked with children with hearing loss. So 3 to 15 year olds was my jam. I worked with adults too, but that was really what I specialized in. And when I left that job, I had fought the management in that company for bringing a different communication modality in for those kids because they were all verbal communicators. And I said, these kids aren't all verbal communicators. We need more communication methods. I stayed in, I thought, I thought I fought for two years and right around the time of COVID my body just completely gave out and I got diagnosed with some intestinal issues and all of these things and I was going to doctor's appointments and it was like my whole world, like my body was like, you're done, like hold my ear. Exactly. It was like, you're done, you need to sit down and you need to put your oxygen mask on. And honest to God, I mean if things had not happened in that order, that was why I knew it was just one of the most self honoring things I did when I left that job. And I always say, you know, that was the biggest, that job was one of the biggest blessings in my life. Because I'm telling you, if it was not that bad and I did not get that sick and the management wasn't that corrupt that I had to fight them that hard, it would not have pushed me out. I would have stayed in and fought for those kids forever and ever and ever. Until maybe 10 years down the road I kind of burnt out. But I think it expedited everything for me.

You know, I'm not a firm believer of everything happens for a reason because like you and I have experienced some heinous, horrible, unfathomable shit that it's hard to hear it happened for a reason. But you're a true example of that. Anything that does happen, you can turn into something beautiful. Even a full body breakdown. I had the same situation, like I had a fourth sabbatical as well, that like a four season of silence that I wouldn't have my ego, my intensity, my fierceness. Like yours would have stayed in the fight until the death. Like, like gladiator for sure. But my body was doing the same thing and it was a forced kind of situation like you, that I wouldn't change for anything.

So yeah, so let's talk enneagram for a second. So as a six, what do you love about being a six and what don't you find so fun about being a six.

I feel like in proper Enneagram six fashion, I was like, I have a whole list of things I hate. Do you want me to go? No, I'm kidding. Things I love. Let me think. Honestly, one of the biggest things. So my husband's an enneagram7 and we own a business together. I think what I can bring to him is grounding. I can bring organization into his life and the how of the millions of goals that he has every day, every minute, really. It feels like sometimes I think I am a good connector of people, and I think I can perceive people fairly well. And I also know. And one of the. I guess my favorite part about it, and it's funny because I've always been described that way, even when I was very, very little, is I am loyal. And I know I'm loyal. I have my people's backs. Things that I don't love. Oh, my gosh. Whenever you told me I was a six, I was like, there's no way. I was.

Like, no, no way. I was like that. Like, indecision and stuff. I was like, that makes me viscerally angry when I see people that can't make decisions and. And having to point that finger back at myself and be like, hey, Brit, when you can't send an email because you draft it 30 times, that's. Yeah.

If you got it, you got it, right?

Yeah. And I think that's. Yeah, that's the biggest challenge. That overthinking, wanting to get on the Internet and start posting because, you know, we do own a business. And realizing, like, man, I've got to start connecting with these people. And I can only do that when I show them who I am. And oh, my gosh, that's terrifying. To take down the armor and just show that off to the world, knowing that negative things are going to flood in. But I do feel that I've developed that confidence to be able to combat it. I know that I have because I've dealt with it in my personal life. So it's like, who's Joe22 on the Internet? But at the same time, that indecision is paralyzing. And I think the worst piece of it. And I remember you saying, like, growth for me was a nine, which is peaceful and just believes that things will work out for the best. And I'm like, I can tell you the 100 ways it will not work out. And my, like, plan for how I will address every single one of them. But to get to that place of Faith is so hard for me. And I think that that is the part that, like, that is my kryptonite. Like, that's where I just sit there and I'm like, oh, my gosh, how do I just push past this wall? Because I know everything is beautiful and I feel light on the other side, but, man, I just feel so stuck here.

I get it. I totally get it. And you know, the vice of the enneagram6 is like that fear and anxiety. But the virtue is courage. And you, my love, are so brave. You were so brave that weekend. And you know, I've done a bunch of retreats in my lifetime. And your story and your courage is one of my most memorable and favorite in my entire career. Because I know how hard it is as an enneagram 6 and as a trauma survivor in a room, never meeting me and trusting me as quickly as you did as an enneagram 6 doesn't come easily. I don't take that responsibility and that gift that you also gave. Not just me, but now millions of people on this podcast. With your courage. What is one thing that you do courageously today that maybe you didn't do before, other than this, other than showing.

Up on a podcast? Because, man, that's. That's big. I think the biggest thing that I've done today is being able to articulate that piece of my life to people and know that there's enough evidence in everything else that I am and that I do, that people will know that I am not weak, I am not broken, I am not absolved. You know, I am not just a result of an entire mess. And also that I was the one that picked myself up and I was the one that went out and found the people that I needed to help. Because of course, it was not a one woman job, but I found those people. And I was so intentional about that. I think that that's probably the biggest thing.

Super brave. And to recognize that, yes, you had checked a lot of boxes and put in the time and still recognizing that there was more to do and maybe deeper places to go and discerning that you could trust me to take you there seriously. I appreciate you for doing that with me in that intimate setting. And also now here for everyone else, you just blessed a hell of a lot of people. Just know with your courage. I love you. What do you want people to know about? Maybe your journey and how it can help them or the Enneagram or me even?

I think I just want people to know because I know there's people like me out there because you were the first person that I found in the entire world that I think modeled this for me. But that it doesn't have to. It's not going to stay as hard as it feels right now because I think a lot of people need that hope. And also that just because life happened and all of these ugly things happened, it does not dim your light. If anything, I think at least in my life, I can see how it forced me to grow and shine brighter than, you know, I ever could have imagined. And I guess that that is what I want to leave people with, is that glimmer of hope, of it's not. Not just going to sit in a negative place forever. There are ways out. There are people, there are trustworthy, safe, good people that can show you how to do that.

And you continue to be a lighthouse for many, many people. So I love you. Keep shining that light bright. And as life on life's terms continues to happen, like lean into the tools and you know where to find me if you need anything. I love you. Thank you for your bravery, courage and heart today.

I love you. I love you.

I'm so happy you enjoyed the lead with the Enneagram podcast. Please help us spread the word about this show and the Enneagram by sharing it with a friend and leaving a written Apple podcast review. If you have any follow up questions to this episode, you can DM me on Instagram at traceyomatt. You can also find additional resources on my website@tracy o'malley.com I'm so excited to lead you into the next level of your life.