EP368: Empowering the hell outta yourself to be the best version of you with Kacia Ghetmiri (SP Enneagram 7)

One of my favorite things to do is interview people that are making a huge impact in the world. And this person that I'm bringing on actually is one of my closest friends as well. Keisha Getmeri. She is an enneagram7 and the host of the insanely, beautifully popular Empower her podcast. She has done live events, we have done retreats together, all sorts of things. You guys have to go check out her podcast, Empower Her. And, um, it is so popular because of how authentic and true and genuine she is. And in our friendship over the last few years that we've gotten really, really close. She knew about the Enneagram, and then I showed up in her life and was able to help her really integrate what being a seven means and how she has continuously used the full framework of her Enneagram type, her instinct, and her tri type in her business. As the host of that podcast, as a woman who has built a very large community, who has a strong, thriving marriage, and as she is about to give birth to her first child, this is a great conversation I know many of you need to hear. Whether you're a Seven or not, you love or lead one. But it is a great conversation that I know will tug at your heartstrings and empower you. So. So go check it out. Listen in.

Okay. I know you may have heard about the Enneagram or someone told you you need to know all about it, so here you are. But what the hell do you do with it? Great news. You are in the right place. Lead with the Enneagram is the show where you will actually learn how to use this incredible growth tool and apply it in all areas of your life, personally, professionally. Hi, I'm Tracy. And to be honest with you, I was a skeptic of the Enneagram before I started to actually integrate it into my life. In fact, in true enneagram 8 style, I told my therapist to F off when she wanted me to dive into it well over a decade ago. Now that I have more than a decade of experience using the Enneagram and working on myself in my family with those closest to me, building my own bulletproof leadership. Sales teams with one on one clients, couples, leading workshops for top Fortune 100 executives, and speaking to large audiences all across the globe about this powerful tool, I've got the proof and deep understanding of how to help you implement this into your life instead of it just being some fun thing you heard about. The Enneagram can be a complex model. But with me as your guide, I will show you how to first lead yourself in a powerful, effective, and compassionate way to and then help you lead others that way in your life as well. This podcast will have powerful conversations with guests, live typing sessions, as well as solo episodes of Breaking down dynamics of the Enneagram and how they impact your life, career, and relationships. So now let's dive in.

All right, you guys are in for a treatcasha. Let's just freaking do this. You know, I know that in the intro I talked about how much I love you and why I thought this conversation would help people, because you honestly are probably one of the most coachable. Even though we're really, really great friends and everything. Like, you rely on my understanding of the Enneagram to help you integrate it in your life. Because you knew about the Enneagram before I showed up in your life, but, like, it was just information to you.

Yep.

But through our friendship and just the evolution of your life and my life over the last few years that we've been friends, seeing how the understanding and integration of this in. In real time in our lives, you're probably the most coach and the most willing to be like, okay, like, this is what's happening. What the do I do with this? And so I thought it'd be great to bring you on. Hi.

This is going to be so fun. Thank you. I'm so pumped. And it's really cool too, because to your point, the integration aspect of it, where I think there's this tendency of just letting it be this light, fluffy thing and not wanting to actually do the work, that really is so transformative. And it's been the times that have been really tough seasons in my business or my personal growth or in my marriage where I've come to you, I'm like, okay, Tracy, like, give me some play by play, because I want to get the outcome right. And it's just how, like, you know, you and I have had plenty of conversations, and obviously you've mentioned this on the show before, where your ability to see people is either really scary to some people, where they're like, I want nothing to do with her, or it's so welcomed. And I just. I care about getting to know myself better. So I want to use the tools and actually integrate the tools. So, like, I'm excited to get into the juice. This is gonna be great.

So that being said, you know, you guys, you heard she's an enneagram 7. She's a self preservation enneagram 7 with the 7, 4, 8 tri type. And we'll get into that a little bit. But yeah, you know what you just said you want the outcome. That's a very seven. Like they're like move. They move through life very fast. They're like, yay, I'm all in. Now let's get to the exciting part. And even when, like there were moments when you were in a rough patch or you know, making the ugly crying call to me.

Yeah.

That I know you've shared so publicly on your podcast as well, that time of your life and that season of your marriage and. Or pre marriage actually. Yeah. That, that desire to get to the outcome is a very seven thing. And what I love for you is you recognize that about yourself and you know, like you can reframe anything into a positive, beautiful, fun, kick ass adventure experience. But the real work has come as a seven in kind of slowing down and feeling your way through that.

Yes.

What has been the best part and the hardest part of that?

When I think the best part is. Yeah, I want to say the best part first is, I mean it's, it's when you get to know yourself and you get to catch yourself doing the thing that feels like the easier out and recognizing that's that's just going to keep you repeating the same pattern over and over again. Because a lot of this is patterns like that's obviously just coming up in different relationships or in friendships or in family dynamics or in my marriage or in my business. It's like this, okay, let me just like put a band aid solution on this. But when I realized like getting to the actual root of the problem and looking at like, where can I take ownership and why do I want to get better? Because it actually does feel better. Because, you know, like, especially as a 7 or for any sevens listening into this, you know that like your secret sauce is you can reframe stuff so quickly, which is a beautiful gift. And I think the world needs people lit up and excited and passionate. And that's one of my favorite things about myself. But if I sugarcoat it or if I silver lining it or if I like, you know, oh, it's not a big deal, then eventually it's almost like you're just like putting something under the rug. And then this like lump gets bigger and bigger and bigger and you can jump over it and try and make it a fun game, but eventually you're gonna trip and fall on your ass. That's how I feel like it is if you don't really do the work. And so for me it's like, I like myself Better when it's like, it feels so genuine that I'm happy and excited right now at this season of my life because I also know the path that it took towards getting here and the pride I would have robbed myself of if I would have just silver lining it in a way that didn't feel like it was genuine.

You know, I think because one of the biggest fears of a 7 is not being stuck, confined, boxed in to anything, especially pain. Right. And painful feelings that can go rogue on you at any moment. And they're a little bit, they, they can like slow things down and make it like rough before it gets better. And you know, the ability for you to know. Like you talk a lot about seasons, right?

Yeah.

And same thing with this, like any kind of pain, whether it's emotional or physical, I mean, you're minutes away from giving birth and who knows what kind of pain is going to hit there. But you also like have it approach pregnancy. So beautiful. Yeah. This shit might hurt.

Yeah.

And it's going to be amazing. Right. One of the things that I know Sevens struggle with and you know, my daughter is a seven. You guys have the same tri type as well, you're a little different in your instinctual response to life, which we'll talk about in a second. But I know one of the things that why I love 7 so much is I know you guys. So especially those of you that are willing to grow, you love the visionary innovator in yourselves. And you know, there are days, you know what, shit's hard. And because you are the queens and kings of reframing and making light of things, which is your gift. But also the kryptonite sometimes is when you are having a bad day and you are with people who have experienced you in that high vibe all the time.

Yes.

That when people try to rush you through your process, especially when you're raising your hand saying, I don't like this feeling, but I'm here feeling it. And it's ugly and messy and murky. How have you navigated that? First, in friendships, because you, I mean, in community, because you're a leader of this huge, beautiful, amazing community.

Yeah.

You have a marriage, you have a great friend group.

Yeah.

Daughter. How do you navigate that? You know, we've talked about, you know that one a little bit.

Yeah. I think like bringing awareness to it first in myself because it used to bother me. One of the biggest ways that I, thinking back of my childhood, growing up, which is still a pattern that I have to catch my mom in and we Have a great relationship now. But if I sound a little bit down or off or like I'm preoccupied, are you okay? That's what she says right away. As if. If I'm not super excited and over the top, then I'm not myself. And so I think part of the way that I normalize it is through conversations with friends, with my family, with, obviously with Sina, with, you know, people around me. But I also normalize it in the way that I talk about things publicly to my community, where it's like, you. I really do believe that having the full spectrum of the human emotions is what I want to do here. Like, I don't want to be happy all the time. And a lot of times people come to me, like, you're so happy. You're so excited. Like, but I'm not like that all the time. Which is what makes those contrasting highs so much higher, is because I have those lows. And I think I would be doing a huge disservice as a leader in a community with a podcast and all the things that I do if I didn't talk about those lows. So I purposely do that. I think I'd be doing a huge disservice if I just was sharing the highlights or just the funny stuff and just the happy times, because I, like, I really want to be an example. And I think such a big fuel source for me is being an example of what's possible for other people through how I show up for. Which means, like, it. It's genuine that I'm happy and positive and excited 95% of the time, honestly. And I feel so grateful that I. That I'm innately wired that way and that I've really conditioned myself to look for positive things. But, like, when I'm off, like, I give myself a full permission slip to be off. And the people that are the closest to me, well, I've got a wide range. And you know this about me, Tracy, but, like, why I have a big friend group and a big community. The people that know me really, really well is actually so much smaller than people realize. But. But those people know that I get to have an off day, and if they are trying to correct me to always being positive, I don't feel like I get to be a fully expressed version of myself. And then I will push them away. And I know that about myself.

That what you just said right there was exactly what happened with me and Casey, my daughter.

Yeah.

God, 15 years ago, 14 years ago. And why, when I got ahold of The Enneagram over a decade ago. I needed to understand because when I. Because the beauty of the seven is that beautiful, free spirited.

Light and the polarization of like that versus somebody like me who didn't get to experience that. Like we love it and we want it and we try to rush that. Like we want more of that and it's not letting you be human. And when you don't do that for an enneagram7, if you don't recognize that yes, their highs are beautiful and they bring so much beauty and light and positivity to our world and they're freaking human beings.

Yeah.

And also need to have a safe place to land when they don't want to necessarily be there. Otherwise you will lose a seven every damn time. I love that.

Well, the safety and security especially like as a self preservation, which I know we'll get into. But like the safety and security thing is such a bigger driver to me than I think people understand that don't know me well. And you know, obviously this applies to different, different types of people that are sevens also. But it's like the thing that's really helped in my marriage is now Cena understanding this language and understanding me that, that he's like, you know, it's okay if you're having an off day, it's okay if you're tired right now, it's okay if you're feeling cranky. Like, just like do whatever you need to do. It's good. And it's almost like I needed to hear someone who's fully like, I like you even if you're not super excited. And while maybe the expectation, I think generally speaking for most people that even know me is that I am going to be excited because that is probably what you're going to get. But if I'm not, I need to know that I'm safe, secure, loved, supported. And Sevens need that. I think more than a lot of people need that because they don't. Because it's the trust of like, do you like me because I make you have fun and I'm happy and excited? Or do you like me for the entire package of me which includes this other portion that's called just being a human. And that security comes from the depth of connection and that's why I just don't really have it with as many people as I could because I just don't. I don't want that depth of connection with as many people. And that's a very surprising thing that I think a lot of sevens listening in will really resonate with is like who gets to see you when you are ugly crying on your bathroom floor. It's a very small amount of people. I'll talk about it publicly, but with my own lens and distance from it. Right. Because then I feel like I'm in control.

The thing with Sevens too is like you are intense beings and you know the biggest fear of being put in a box, confined, if you have that many close, really intimate people, there's going to be a lot more demand of you.

Yes.

Right. Which it's like, like putting a cat in a bag. Like they're gonna be well then you.

Feel like you owe people too. It's this like feeling of like, oh no, I need to keep all of these people in the loop. I need to make sure that I'm especially if as a value set of wanting to be a good friend or a good insert whatever role that you feel like, oh, I need to be keeping up with all of these people. And then that makes me feel like I'm not making my choice and freedom is driver for me. That I'm like, I feel obligated. And feeling obligated is basically like to your point, a cat in a bag, like just put me in a bag and put me on the street because I can't like, I hate that feeling, you know.

So the self preservation aspect and for those of you listening, like this is why like a lot of you are mistyped on the enneagram and why all those online assessments. Because this is kind of where Nate or nurture is affected by your nature. Right. And this is kind of like when you're dropped into the world, dropped into a family, environment, schools, cultures, time of, you know, time of the world, whatever that looks like, that this can alter when things are going great or when things are going not so great. How these core fears and core motives can show up in any enneagram type. And so it's why like even though you and Casey have the same tri type, your different instinctual responses to life and it's. It's cool to know this, that you know, when we're dealing with somebody that's a self preservation type, whether it's a 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 or 9, when things are happening, how a self preservation person responds to that looks different than somebody like me who's a one on one type.

Yep.

How has understanding this self preservation aspect, which means that safety, security and comfort is always your first go to. And how does this affect me is your first go to.

I think the first thing is, and I'm sure this is true for anyone that finds out their self preservation is not judging if it's good or bad, right? Because I think a lot of times it sounds selfish and we have this connotation that selfish is bad. For me, when I found that out, I was like, this is so true to me that it's not even selfish because it's like, I know why, I know why I'm like this because of my own upbringing and the way that like the family dynamic that I was dropped into, but also I see it played out. So it's like instead of us looking at like an enneagram type or finding out something like being a self preservation of any type and labeling it as good or bad, it's like it's all useful information that's supportive for me, knowing myself better to then also take responsibility for when I'm acting in certain ways and get to have that depth of connection with people that I really crave. So for me, I know, like, I can feel it in my body.

Around like this need to protect myself. And I have to be so cautious. Knowing this has actually been really helpful because. Because I, I'm aware of why I go to the place of I want to protect myself. Whether it's from, you know, even right now, like, you know, at the time that we're recording this of moving into like a maternity leave where I'm going to be making less money, right where I've been really financially. Like, I'm still going to be making money in my business, but not the, at the rate that I was used to when I'm launching things or hosting events or hosting retreats where I was like, ooh, why is this so triggering to me? I'm like, oh, it's the self preservation part of me that wants to protect myself and my resources. I catch myself feeling that way when I'm in conversations where I feel because I am very like empathetic to people's energy and I'm an extrovert. So like I can feel that energy where, when I'm getting my energy depleted by a really negative conversation or really like downer thing, I can feel this like resentment kind of building. But knowing that it's because of the self preservation aspect of me, I can look at it with this lens of like, oh, that's interesting that you're doing that, rather than why are you that way? Or like you or judging myself, I guess. So I think it's really. That aspect's been helpful. And then the Biggest way that it shows up for sure is my marriage where like I know that I want safety and security. So what are the ways that I can get that? Or can I have the same dynamic but just it needs to be communicated to me in a different way of like, hey, just so you know, it's good that you're going to take time off, like do this for yourself. Like Cena saying that to me is so helpful. I'm like, why do I need that? Because I'm not like a words of affirmation person, but I need to know it from my internal nervous system to be like, you're safe, you're good. And I have to remind myself of that constantly. And that's going to be a forever thing for me. But I also then I see the positives of it because I'm like, God, I am greedy and I'm resourceful as f and like I can handle things. And I think there's part of me, especially as an entrepreneur that loves knowing that that's like in my DNA that I've like, I've got it and I can count on my. I just have to make sure I don't go too far on the spectrum that I ostracize people or have this like, I can handle it on my own type of personality because that's going to impact my marriage, my relationship with our future son. Like, I know it's going to impact things around me. So I just have to have awareness, I guess.

Yeah. And like that instinct like you said. And I love that it's not selfish, it's safety, security and comfort, which is a basic human need right now. Yes. We can swing the other end of the pendulum just like a one on one type like I am. We get like, oh, we're into interpersonal relationships. And although that's real warm and fuzzy, we could also be codependent as. Yeah, right. And yeah. And over givers and. And all the other things. So like we do use all three instincts. I love that you understanding this is your default and what that means and how to reframe it. Because when I think back to before you guys got married, a couple weeks before you got married and that call came and you were like freaking out and I mean you guys have been together 14 years. One of the most solid relationships I've ever seen in my life. One of my favorite couples that I just love together. And yet that self preservation aspect was on high alert.

Yeah.

What do you think for a seven in you? Like, I know because we've had the conversation. Yeah, like recognizing. Because you wanted to bail for a moment. Yeah. Let's go to Boulder, like, right. Get away from here. So, yeah. Like, what was happening internally for you, if you can remember? I mean, it was almost two and a half years ago. Yeah.

But yeah.

Think was happening for you. And how did you, other than calling me. Yeah. Move through that?

I think, like, I love that we even talked earlier about, like, seasonality. I think seasonality is a really great perspective for all people in general, but in particular sevens because it reminds you that, you know, the highs are seasonal. So, like, savor it and enjoy it, but also that the lows are seasonal. So, like, know that you'll get through it. And that particular season of life, and I'm specifically using that terminology because it makes me like, reflect on it in like a very beautiful way, like a chapter rather than like, oh, this stage was so hard. Right. I don't want to go to that mindset. But the season of so many dynamic shifts in. In our marriage at that time that, like, I didn't feel secure and stable. So it was like rocking me internally where, like, you know, to your point, like, we had been together for like 13 years before we got married and we'd had very similar dynamics where, I mean, obviously, you know, this for people listening. And my husband was a dentist and then he left dentistry and then he decided he wanted to be an entrepreneur. And I had been an entrepreneur for many years. Being an entrepreneur and then having a brand new entrepreneur now living in your house, like, is really that in itself was one element of it. Then on top of that, he lost his dad a couple weeks later and that was jolting because then he was dealing with grief and the anxiety that came up from grief that we didn't realize. So now I've got this like, stable rock force in my life who's always had this linear path, who's navigating grief and anxiety. So he's extremely unstable emotionally. I had no idea how to anticipate. And I'm sharing this because I think there we sometimes forget, even as sevens, we're like, there are people around us that might give us this grounding feeling where we get to go be these free birds. Which is what 13 years of my relationship was. Was seen it just like being in the background like, okay, she's like, you could do it. Like you're just go fly around over there. But I didn't have that because now I had to be the really stable person. And I felt like it was.

Unfair or something like I was like, I don't get to be myself now, so is it going to be like this for forever? And I couldn't identify it in the moment as a season. So it was pure panic. It was this underlying like, I'm about to get married to this person who I know cognitively in my head and in my whole body. I knew, like, I wanted to marry him, but my nervous system was so out of whack that it seriously felt so uncomfortable because I'm like, am I going to be stuck right to your point of like a 7 fearing being stuck? Am I going to be stuck in this negative pattern with this guy who I've never seen in this way? And I'm gonna have to like, overcompensate for the rest of my life, like, to make him excited. And that's where the problem was. I was thinking it was my responsibility to make him feel a certain way or to want him to be happier, because I liked being around someone that was happier. And it was such a. And I think I just couldn't handle it. Like, it was. I didn't even really have the verbiage for it, except for calling you being like, Tracy, like, I know I want to marry him. It's not that. And I have this track record of 13 years of relationship that I'm like, for sure he's the person, but I'm freaking the F out. And I don't think anyone but you with your understanding of me as a person and even just these like the go to's for an enneagram 7. I don't think anyone else could have really gotten it the way that you did. Because I was like, what is this, like, flea thing that I need to get out? Right? But it was like your. Your head and your heart and your body are all going in different directions. But it was the probably. I mean, in true 7 fashion, I have to tie this up with a bow because it was like, also one of the biggest lessons I've learned as an individual was this, like, I can't control another person and it's not my responsibility. And I think if I would have gone down that path much longer without, like really having this frank conversation with you about would have turned into much more, like, codependency issues. And it would have. It would have really hurt the foundation of this marriage, you know?

So, gosh, I remember that like it was yesterday and just that. Aha. And. And also like the very thing we just talked about, like, you want to be able to be human and have hard Days, you know, he. And that's. I remember saying this to you. I'm like, yeah, he's a human too. And all he is your, your kind of stability, you know, let's, let's, let's look at what's going on in his world right now and how hard that must be be. And yes, like this, this too shall pass. More will be revealed. And this will end up being a solid foundation, even stronger of who you guys are. And you are like, seriously, here we are two years later. I've never seen you two better.

Yeah.

And so you're about to enter into motherhood marriage with different dynamics attached to it. And one of the things I love about you guys is like, you have the same.

Values and vision for your life. Like, the end goal is very similar for both of you. Now how you guys both go about shit is very, very different. And that's what makes you guys a solid team. When we're good, right. And when we're not so good. And this, you know, goes for any relationship. Right. When we're not so good. How do you manage now when he's handling things the way a three, he's a one on one, enneagram three. And you want to handle it different because I've been in your presence when there is conflict with you.

And I giggle because it's like, okay, here we go, here we go. How do you like, keep that from blowing up into something that could be detrimental to your relationship? Because I think a lot of people listening take it too far because, you know, from the neck down, their whole body is saying, what the. And even if from the neck up, you've done a lot of work or understand this.

Yeah.

The reality is, is when you're feeling triggered by something that your partner, especially your most intimate partner is doing, it can feel like a lot and you can off before you know it.

Seriously. I think at first I would try and catch the thought of it, of what are you thinking right now? And is this actually true? And try and do it in my own head, right? Of like, okay, you're getting frustrated by this. What are you making that mean? Is that actually true? But the head part really didn't, like it worked as a band aid solution, honestly. And I think it hasn't been until recently where I had this real conversation with myself where I was like, okay, what do you want marriage to be for you? And to me I'm like, I want this to be a forever growth where we're growing as individuals and we're intentionally growing Together, But I really want to feel in my body, not just in my head, making logical sense of it, but I want to feel in my body. Like, I'm so excited about him being a fully expressed version of himself and me being a fully expressed version of myself. So what am I doing that's not allowing him to feel comfortable enough to do that? And it's. It was because I was band aid solutioning the thoughts, right? So, like, there's certain things that Cena does as a three where he's so task focused that it drives me up the wall sometimes. But I'm like, okay, hold on. When you guys have a big idea, how is this big idea going to come to fruition if you don't have someone who's going to break down the tasks? Because if I want to be this extreme dreamer who wants to do all these big things, I have to actually see and believe in my full body that I need to have someone around. I just happen to be married to them. But obviously, for anyone that's not married, it's like, it could be a friend, it could be whoever that can fill the gap where I'm like, I see the necessity now. So it's almost like in the last even couple months, I feel like it's shifted to more like, my body believes it to be true versus what helped at first was I could rationalize it in my head where I'm like, ooh, that thought's not helpful. You're being kind of bratty about this, Keisha. And that was step one. And I actually do think that was really helpful. But now what's it's moved into, especially knowing that we're going into the season of being parents together, and even just, like, the conversations we've had about childbirth and things like that, where I'm like, I know I'm gonna have to learn this reliance piece on somebody else. Well, I have to truly believe in my body, not just in my head, that I am married to the right person that has the skills and has the perspective that I really need to make us feel like we're this team that can be unstoppable together. So it had to move from my head to my body if I'm just being really honest about it. But at first, the head part did actually work for a little bit. But if I got frustrated enough, it wasn't enough because I couldn't catch the thoughts because my body was like, this is not safe. Like, you don't get to be yourself. But now I'm like, no, I Do get to be myself. When I just get out of the way, I'm like, okay, like, he's gonna go do all of these random, like, tasks. That sounds boring as hell to me, but it needs to get done. So he's in his mode. And the other thing, too, that I've recognized is because I am. And as a seven, like, I want answers quickly. I want to move quickly, I want to move through stuff is when I'm firing all these things at him all the time. But he's someone who's very extremely focused, which is a skill that I do not have. I'm repeating. I'm just, like, making the situation so much worse. So now I'll actually ask him where. I'm like, hey, like, I have something I'm really excited about that I want to tell you about. Is this a good time? Or should I wait five minutes? And then I'm not getting frustrated versus I just used to be like, you're not listening to me or, you don't care about this. And that never helped.

No. And I love what you just said about, like, you go into thinking about things, and this tees up exactly what I wanted to talk about next, which is kind of the beautiful emotional intelligence that comes when we start to integrate what we know about our Enneagram and our instincts and our tri types and the wings and all the things. Yeah, like, you teed it up perfectly. Because by default, as a seven, you will always first go to. What do I think about this?

Yep.

And futuristic thinking, which is why you guys are amazing troubleshooters, visionaries, innovators, like, entrepreneurs. Like, it's why you guys. You go to futuristic thinking, which is great. And if you just did that, although you might make some creative crap happen, the chances of any of it really getting done or done effectively. Yeah, yeah, not so much. And the beautiful thing about Cena is that he's in the feeling center. So even though he's very task oriented, it's running through the filter of, what do I feel about this? Yeah. Everything that he does and the reason he's such a taskmaster is because a lot of his significance comes by what he does, how he appears, what he achieves. And so, like, check the box. Check the box. I mean, he's amazing now. Like, he isn't. His sole identity isn't based on that, but because that's where he defaults to first. It's why when you guys respect where each other comes from, like, you'll always be the big idea girl, and he'll Be like, what do I feel and how do we make this happen? Like, that's why you guys work so well. But when you're not like firing off and understanding this about each other, it's why it can feel like you're not freaking listening. And he could feel like you didn't hear what I said. Yeah, right. And then the thing about your body, which takes you to the other center.

Yeah.

Right. So you're in the thinking center, Sina's in the feeling center. There's another center that you use, which is your instinctual center. And I think this is where you and I really understand each other at the deepest level, because I am in the instinctual center. So I go into what is happening now.

Yep.

Right. First, before I go to thinking and feeling, I'm like, okay, what do I need to do about this?

Yes.

And what I've watched you do in the three years that we've been friends is. Yeah. You always default to what do I think about this? What could happen? What does the future look like? But you elegantly go through. What do I. What do I want to feel about this? What do I want to feel about this pregnancy? What do I want to feel in my marriage?

Yeah.

Which you operate like a four in the feeling center. So. So you're very intuitive, you're very imaginative, you're creative. Naturally, not just cause you're a seven, but also this four part of you which is like so juicy, like the impact in you. But then in the what do I want to do about this? You operate like an 8. So big shocker there. So that's where we get the tri type for this.

Well, the tri type is so interesting because I actually, I mean, you know this, but like I felt the most resistance to force until. Well, once for sure. Because I don't really like rules, but fours, because I was like, they're so like in their fields and like everything's about like, what does this mean to me? And I was like, but there's something about that that I. I'm that way. I'm so that way. But the significance of what does this mean to me is also how do I want to impact the world? How do I want to impact the people around me? How do I want to impact in my marriage as a parent, you know, like all of these things where I'm like, that significance is so beautiful. And now like learning about the tri type aspect of it because like, I've always, I've always known that I can use that 8 hardcore. Like if I Need to step up and get stuff done. I'm like, I knew that I had like a really strong seven, eight, like seven with using my eight wing a lot and not as much my six wing of like asking enough questions. Sometimes I would just real go fast and then if the fan I would just be like, I'll handle it like with my eight thing. But the four just brings this like very like it's just a different take on significance that I feel really connected to now and I feel it a lot more. Like for anyone listening in that doesn't know their tri type, it is really valuable to learn that because it, it gives you this like grace and deeper understanding about yourself. But also I'm like, I am like that. Like I am emotional and I, I do want to know how does this impact me? Not from a self preservation perspective, but like, what is this, is this significant to me? Because I want to do things in the world that are impactful and that's a beautiful thing to have and I'm so grateful for it. And it's just the ironic part that I used to think that fours were like so in their feels and whatever. I'm like, I'm in my fields. I'll cry if I see like grandparents holding hands on the street, you know, so.

Yeah, but like the imagination that fours have when they get out of their own way, like, yeah, you use that. I mean I've seen you do it over and over and over again and in our friendship together. Yeah, that imagination and, and it almost fuels that 7 of let's freaking go and make it happen.

Yeah.

It's funny because I, you know, I have a friend of mine who is an eight like me and she's even the same instinctual aid as me. But we're different in our tri type in the feeling center and she's a three in the feeling center and I'm a two in the feeling center. And I, I catch myself sometimes judging because she can. Like I'm so much of an empath and I can be so caring. Believe it or not. Sometimes that, oh yeah. Where she kicks into that three zone and I'm so envious. I'm like, damn it, I want to have that three in me so bad. But I just, you know, it. But, but using this to leverage the gifts of who I am and then finding support of those that have those three zones that I don't have and, and all of the things. So as you go into motherhood here. Yeah. I'm so excited to watch you as a mom. And, you know, talking to my daughter, you know, she's probably about four or five years away from that, and I'm so excited to see both of you be moms. Is there anything about becoming a mom without the reframe and the positive thing that scares you about those freedom and choices? Because, you know. Yeah, the realistic part is, like, you have a human relying on you.

Yeah.

Is there anything that. That scares you?

The anxious thoughts that I felt about it is the, like, breast. Like, just things like breastfeeding and, like, understanding, like, the schedule of things and not having the flexibility to just jump and go do whatever I want. Especially because we've been together for so long, and I've been an entrepreneur since 2014, so I've had so much freedom that I really had. Like, that was the first thing that came up, was, I'm going to have less freedom. Am I okay with having less freedom? And then I'm like. But the re. The reframe instantly came, which was like, gosh, I want the fulfillment and I want the. I want to get to, like, raise a human. Like, this is a dream that I've always had. And it's. It's this really weird thing, because being an entrepreneur and getting to this stage career wise for me, I always anticipated that I'd want to be a mom, and I'd wanted to have even more options of whatever I felt in that moment felt aligned for me of do I want to launch something or create something or whatever, or do I not? So on the flip side of it, it's like, because of the work that I do, I did proactively, even in the last couple years, knowing myself and knowing this, this quote unquote stuckness or lack of freedom that I might anticipate myself feeling because of knowing that I'm a seven. It's almost like I did the proactive work to make sure that I had options, and now I actually do feel like I have options. Right. So, like, obviously, you know, like, Cena not being a dentist and him being an entrepreneur, too, in the real estate space. It's like we both have flexibility. So the fear of, oh, my gosh, I'm not gonna be able to do anything. It's like, well, we have two parents that are gonna be present that have really flexible schedules, so I'm not even tied to his schedule. Yeah, we're gonna be tied to our son's schedule. But it's like, this is why knowing yourself is so important, because I knew that this was gonna happen, and I knew that I was gonna feel like and have anxious thoughts that still come up. But when I look at it, I'm like, you prepared for this? You know, even right now, like, we were talking before we started recording this. I've never had less on my schedule as we're waiting for him to come into this world than I've had in 10 years as an entrepreneur. But I planned for this and I worked really hard for this, knowing that I didn't know how I was going to feel. And I'm really big and sevens will get this on a very visceral level. I don't want to make a decision for a future version of me that I don't yet know.

Yeah.

Because if I get stuck, I'm gonna panic and then I'm gonna want to flee.

Before, right? Yeah, before, like launching. And you're like, oh, exactly. No, no, no.

I know. And then I've already done it and it's like a hundred thousand dollar product or something. Yeah, exactly. So I think like the proactive, like what I would say to any seven moving into that type of a season, if someone happens to be listening in, that's in. That is like, yeah, you'll feel those feelings still. But what can you do now to proactively prepare yourself for that upcoming season? And I just think I did a really freaking good job of that and. And seen a Knowing me too was like, you're going to want space for a big tbd. And I have no doubt in my mind, like, that I'll figure out whatever I want to come next. But I don't want to make that decision now. And I feel free that I don't have to. So it counterbalances the fear of breastfeeding every two hours and being sleep deprived. Like, it's like, that's going to be part of it. But like, we have two parents that are going to be present with him, which is like, incredible, you know?

And one of the things, like when I'm Talking to an enneagram7 is like, it may feel like you are being restricted or contained or even at moments when you're feeling trapped by breastfeeding. Because it might happen.

Yeah. Yeah.

A this too shall pass and this will create more freedom and choices down the road. Like, that's kind of like where especially for a seven, you need to understand. Which we've talked about at length. My daughter and I have talked at length and it's like, yes, it. It's a season and it will pass. And like the freedom and choices you're gonna have like, trump this moment.

Yeah.

You know, with the Enneagram. And I think this is a good spot to kind of end because you are embodying this. You know, we each have this growth number that is connected to our Enneagram type. And I think this was my biggest aha. As an aide. Knowing where I go where. If I'm raising my hand and say, I want to be the best version of myself and I want to make impact and. And have freedom and choices and. And significance and independence and all the things.

Yeah.

Then to whom much is given, much is required. And that growth number is kind of like that target we're always aiming for, but it's also like, when we look at that number, it's like, ew. I remember when I was telling Casey that her growth number, you guys, as a seven, is the Enneagram five. She goes, oh, my God, that's so boring.

Yep. That was the first thing I thought, too. It's like, what? But it's. It's so helpful. Oh, God.

Like, I mean, the five for a seven, when we embody that in a healthy way, is like, the epitome of cocoon season. Like, our good friend Aisha, you know, she talks about, like, butterfly season and cocoon season, and cocoon season doesn't have to be a bad thing. Right? Yeah. Cocoon season for us in the past, we've, like, said it felt like isolation and restriction and. Right. But how have you flipped the script on that and understanding that a cocoon season is necessary, that 5 cave is necessary for you to be the holy grail of the seven in you?

I just make decisions that I don't regret if I think about them for longer.

Right.

And, like, you were one of the people that's come to me, like, wait on it for 24 hours. Because the thing, the gift and the curse is I get so excited, and it's so genuine and so real about an opportunity. But I have to. In this season. Like, I've made my. I've. I've forced myself in a way that doesn't feel limiting to be like. But you're gonna think more critically about things in this season because you don't want to rob yourself of joy, fulfillment, and freedom and choices. Right. Later. So, like, just. Even the. The reframe of it of, like, you're going to slow down Keisha to make better decisions because. Because of the optionality that you'll have in the future. I've linked those two things together in particular for the season going into motherhood. But I Honestly think it will continue afterwards because I'm just recognizing and now I've got data to back it up of things like, and Sevens will get this. It's like you say yes to something and then afterwards you're like, oh, why didn't I say yes to that? I don't even want to do that, right? And I'm not going to do. And I think, you know, we've talked about this a lot, but it's almost like the necessity for me to make better decisions with more sound, logical, slow paced judgment is so much more important because now I'm going to have a little human too. So the necessity is just, it's not just about me now, right? Or even just about me and my husband. It's about me and like this little kid that's going to rely on me that I want him to also get to have a present, happy, fulfilled mom who is also fully expressing herself. But like, I'm not going to make a decision that could impact him in a negative way either. So I think I just realized how much better I feel when I just slowed down for a second to like, think more critically. And like, there's things like even just like thinking about who do we want around right when he's born, what type of an environment do I want to create? What type of boundaries do I need to put in place? How do I need to talk about things? Because like, especially for people that are building podcasts or business or putting themselves out there on social media, whatever you're posting about or talking about is also what you're attracting. So I'm like, I have really strict boundaries of like, what I'm not willing to tolerate. Like, I don't want to hear horror birth stories right now. I don't need to hear the negative stuff. So I'll literally like, if I'm posting or talking about, I'm like, will not like disclaimer. I will not tolerate negative things. Here's why. Don't give it to me.

Right?

So it's like, but I had to stop for a second and critically think like to your point of what do I want this to feel like? And then tactically, how am I going to get that feeling? Well, it can't be from my seven self just being like, yep, I'm in. Oh, I'm out. Whoops. Like, I can't do that. While I love that part of me, this five like, version that I can tap into is like, okay, but what's the next best decision here? Do you need more information? Is More information gonna calm your anxiety. Because that's another thing too with pregnancy, right? It's like you're like, what's going on with my hoo ha? And you start like googling things. And I'm like, how much information do I need to feel like I can lessen anxiety without spiraling? But I know I need more information so that I don't get anxiety. And it's tapping into that five all the time. I've never tapped into my five more than I've tapped into my five recently.

And it's. And it's a very delicate discernment because, yeah, like, too much information could create overwhelm, anxiety, fear, and then the shiny object chasing syndrome. Like, like I need.

Well, and you're spiraling and then you're scared and then you want to flee, right? Or you feel stuck 100%.

So that's why I think a lot of sevens have resisted that five cave a little bit. Because like information, absolutely, too much of it can, can overwhelm and feel restrictive and all the things. But finding that beautiful dance between the solitude and a little more information so that you can make the long game decision to have freedom choices and all the fucking fun that.

Well. And Tracy, you're always encouraging, you know, like to go into your growth number. And it's like when I'm stressed, I turn into an unhealthy one, as you know. But for sevens, like, I don't catch myself in that state. If I am willing and actively choosing to go more to that 5 growth zone, I don't catch myself going into that stressed out one state, which I can pick up really quick, right? Where it's like, this is right, this is wrong. It's the black and white thinking, why'd you put the ketchup this way in the fridge like that? That I don't do that as much. I haven't honestly even done that through my pregnancy with all these hormones raging through my body as much as I would have previously because I'm willing to go to that 5k. So it's like when you're going and tapping into that growth number, you also notice that it really impacts you because you don't have to deal with all the crap that comes from you being a cycle one.

Yeah, it's funny because, because like, you know, before I understood all of this, it was where my daughter and I would like put on the boxing gloves and almost kill each other because when she was in that critical one all of a sudden gives a shit about things that don't really matter zone. I took it as like disrespect. But now I can giggle because I've seen you in the one zone.

Yeah.

And I've, you know, now I can giggle because I know what's happening. And instead of it feeling personal, because it can feel like you're around a seven when they're in that perfectionistic, critical.

Yeah, this is right, this is wrong.

It's not fun to be in that.

We should fire this person.

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly. But like when you understand what's happening, doesn't get taken personal and you actually can be a better support to the people that you love, the people that you lead in your life. And I love you so much.

I love you so much.

I talk to you for hours and hours.

I know, I know. I love it. Thank you.

You're the best. So people that are listening, you know. Yeah. You didn't just hear this information one time and now like, you know how you move through this, this whole thing. What would you recommend for somebody that's first of all learning about the Enneagram, but how to actively learn how to integrate it? Because it's just like building any muscle. It takes commitment and consistency.

Make sure that they're, they're actually have the right type. Right. So like do the assessment, get the blueprint. And it's because like if you're going through life like, and if you feel confused, like this doesn't really hit with me. You're probably typed wrong because like when I like for both Cena and I, it's like we know what our types are because it rings true. We're like, and we can see it in each other but if it feels off, then it's probably because you're type wrong. That would be my perception. And then I think if I was first learning about this, I loved, I loved knowing the stress number because I wanted to stop the bleeding just because I needed to know that. And then I was interested in the growth number. That's kind of where I was most interested because I already knew that I was a seven who tapped into my eight wing often. So the wings was interesting. But to me the growth and stress number was probably the most interesting. And what really took it to the next level was knowing the tri type and that I was a self preservation like that that elevated it so much. So if you're first figuring this out, number one, if it doesn't feel like it rings true to you get really do get an assessment. And honestly if you don't get an assessment, then you're not going to know what your tri type is. You're not going to understand this. And it's worth it because it impacts every single aspect of your life. Like, I can't even imagine where I would be as an individual, let alone my marriage, let alone how I would feel going into motherhood, how I would be able to build the businesses that I've built, have the impacts that I've made and honestly even just show up for my community in a way that feels true and authentic to me and have a lot of compassion for myself. And I've my. My biggest goal always in life is how I feel about myself when I'm by myself. And this makes me feel so good about myself where even my flaws and I'm like, oh, that's cute that you're doing that thing again. I just don't beat myself up as much because I have a lot more compassion and I think everybody needs to have more self compassion. And yeah, it's going to impact the bottom line of your business and all these other things and that's great but like that's what really matters. And the world feels really heavy and hard sometimes. So it's like make sure that you're on your own team, you know? So I would say start there and personally I would, I would get. Look at the stress number and be like, oh shit, that's why I'm fre out of my significant other.

Yeah. And like you said, like compassion is like the key to growth in every. Because if we meet ourselves with a whipping stick of shame or judgment or anger, like none of it matters anyway, it's, you know, it's not sustainable. Keshe, I love you so much.

I love you so much.

I know that you definitely hit home for a lot of people listening in all areas, the full buckets of our lives. And I just love you so much.

Thank you for having me. I appreciate you. Love you.

I'm so happy you enjoyed the Leadership Formula podcast. Please help us spread the word about this show by sharing it with a friend and leaving a written Apple podcast review. If you have any follow up questions to this episode, you can DM me directly on Instagram at Tracee Underscore Malley. You can also find additional resources on my website@traceeomalley.com I'm excited to lead you into to the next level.