EP372: Stepping into your CEO Era with Katherine Horrigan (SP Enneagram 9)

If you are someone who hates conflict or wants to be an entrepreneur, but you know you're getting in your own way.

This episode is so, so good. It is with a dear friend of mine and client, Katherine Horrigan, who is a self preservation enneagram9 and she literally, literally, you guys. In the spring of 2020, laid down her life savings for a brick and mortar dance studio at a time when the world was saying we're gonna hole up and not do anything. For an enneagram9 to get a case of like let's freaking go speaks volumes and how she navigates that and stepping into an impact driven, heart centered leader. As an enneagram 9, she also has the 937 tri type which is known as the Ambassador. And you're going to hear what that looks like. Stepping into who you are always designed to be when your natural tendency is to kind of fly under the radar and avoid conflict altogether. This is a beautiful episode with my dear friend Katherine Horgan. It is also her birthday today. So go check it out and dive right in.

Okay. I know you may have heard about the Enneagram or someone told you you need to know all about it, so here you are. But what the hell do you do with it? Great news. You are in the right place. Lead with the Enneagram is the show where you will actually learn how to use this incredible growth tool and apply it in all areas of your life, personally and professionally. Hi, I'm Tracy and to be honest with you, I was a skeptic of the Enneagram before I started to actually integrate it into my life. In fact, in true enneagram8sty, I told my therapist to f off when she wanted me to dive into it well over a decade ago. Now that I have more than a decade of experience using the Enneagram and working on myself in my family with those closest to me, building my own bulletproof leadership sales teams with one on one clients, couples, leading workshops for top Fortune 100 executives, and speaking to large audiences all across the globe about this powerful tool. I've got the proof and deep understanding of how to help you implement this into your life. Instead of it just being some fun thing you heard about. The Enneagram can be a complex model. But with me as your guide, I will show you how to first lead yourself in a powerful, effective and compassionate way and then help you lead others that way in your life as well. This podcast will have powerful conversations with guests, live typing sessions, as well as solo episodes of Breaking down Dynamics of the Enneagram and, and how they impact your life, career and relationships. So now let's dive in.

Hey, Katherine. I am so excited for this conversation. It's going to be so juicy.

Love to be here. Thank you for having me, Tracy.

Okay, you guys, as you heard in the intro, I've got like a girl crush on this girl. She's hot, she's got legs for days. But also like, I'm obsessed with her energy, her coachability, and her willingness to just fucking go for it. And we were chatting a little bit before we hopped on and she's part of the mastermind I am in. And so we met each other, gosh, not even a year ago. And I was saying to her, like, it's been cool to watch her evolution of stepping into her voice. And as an enneagram9 and all my nines and those that love nines. Sometimes it takes you guys a little while to really own your voice. Would that be true for you? Not just in our time together, but like your whole life? When was like the first time you remember? Like, I want to use my voice, but I'm terrified of it.

Oh my gosh. It feels like a whole life journey. And I know this, Tracy, when I met you last March, it's like there's something missing. I'm staying behind my business. I'm not, you know, stepping forward. I feel very uncomfortable with that. But I'm a leader and I know that. And I have leadership woven into me from my family. Except I'm very uncomfortable in front of a camera or with a mic, but I can't remember the first time. But I know that since I was young I would just be uncomfortable and get read. And since that happened as probably a school age kid, presentations or anything of the such, knowing how embarrassed and how physically, how my body reacted physically would help me just avoid it even more as much as I could. But I never got to avoid it because there's always opportunities that I needed to step up.

Right? So yeah, isn't that crazy?

I.

When you said that, I was thinking about like when I was. I always was a natural born leader too. And I resisted it as well, believe it or not. And when they would have me do like speeches or like I was in band as well, like they wanted me to do like speeches and solos and I was like, I would get so violently ill and like have to speak from a closet so nobody could look at me. Isn't that weird?

Wow. Not weird because I completely relate. It's like an experience. Your body takes over and you're out of control there.

Yeah.

So, you guys, I want you to wrap your brain around this timeline for a second and why, like, this is such an amazing story. First of all, she is a self preservation enneagram9 with the 937tri type. So she's called the Ambassador, which we been really working hard on her owning that. And she is the epitome and essence of an ambassador, for sure. Not just professionally, but as a single mom to a beautiful, beautiful little girl for the last few years as well, and the sole provider, quite honestly. So what's cool about her is she was a professional dancer and performer and then had an injury about 13 years ago, went and got her master's degree because, you know, she grew up in a environment where that's just what you did and you move up the corporate ladder and any kind of ladder, and that's like the epitome of success. But you kind of knew, like, there was more. And get this, you guys, in the summer of 2020, now we all know what was happening in the summer of 2020, this girl takes $10,000, probably the only $10,000 you had, to your name, and drops down a deposit on a brick and mortar building to run a dance studio, you guys. And here we are three years later, and it's a multi seven figure business. And she just bought another property, you guys, seriously. So, Catherine, what. What was brewing inside of you, like when the world shut down, where you're like, you know what might be a really good idea? Let's like go rogue here. Which is so not traditional Enneagram nine baller move. Right. The nine is motivated by harmony and peace, and the world was a clusterfuck. And you were about to disrupt not just your space that you're in, but your household. Right. Being a single mom.

Oh, yes. Oh, my gosh.

So what was brewing inside of you that the enneagram 9 and you is like, let's fucking go.

Exactly. Oh. So I'm going to take it back before that happened because honestly, Covid was a blessing in disguise because I was internally already. I had gotten to the point in the. In the business that I was running for someone else, that I was no longer growing. And growth is important to me as a professional dancer. Self growth was just innate in us. It was part of what we did. We never stopped improving ourselves. And so when I felt like I had no more to offer and I'd done as much as I could with this school, I was. I was bored and was looking for something else. But I wasn't looking. I wasn't doing anything about it. I was becoming stuck because I felt like that was the cap and I was at the highest I could get successfully in the dance industry. So I was trying, right, director leadership, you know, good salary, all the things that I thought were good enough and I should just be grateful that I have them. And I was raising a daughter and, you know, trying to live this life that was very simple and comfortable and safe and just be grateful for what I had and not look for more. But brewing inside all along is like this itch, this need for more. What else can I do? What's. What's missing? And honestly, I wasn't making the move. I wasn't doing anything. And so come Covid, crisis happens and the owners decide to close down that company. So I'm going to lose my job in a few months, and I know this is coming, and I stay on board and help close down this company. And then I got to figure my life out. So it became. It was an identity crisis as well, because I felt so connected to the work I had been doing, and that was tough to work through. I took about a month to figure out, you know, I thought I was burnout. I don't want to do this anymore. I'll go. You know, I was applying for jobs and then it was coming. It was coming in front of me like this opportunity and seeing that this. I had to do a shift in my mind to stop thinking about my identity to success and if I failed at this, and what would happen if I failed that whole ego trip and re. Reframe it to look at it. If I was looking at myself in the future and looking back at this moment, who do I want to be? Am I going to give up and lose this opportunity? Even though I have.

I'm.

I've lost everything. So in a way, I have nothing to lose except my. My ego here if this doesn't work out. And in that moment, it was about not giving up. That was what mattered, to take the chance. So all this brewing internally, it took the crisis to cause me to take that action. But I still had to work through it. And then finally I said, let's go for it. And I had to just, you know, it felt very personal the entire process. But I had one month, so it was once go time hit. I just had to. I had to go and trust my gut and know my skills were there. And just a lot of faith. A lot of faith.

So I know you're talking to a lot of People and women out there that know that they're made for more and then tell themselves this story. I should just be grateful for what I have. Right. And, you know, I really want to put an asterisk on this as a single parent myself, and knowing your situation, there is no backup plan. There is no kind of thing. And a lot of times. And you know, we will. And no disrespect to any single parent. I am one and have been for 15 years. Like, I think sometimes we limit ourselves because of that, rather than saying, you know what, now is my time, I'm going to go for it. But I also know that you were raised in an environment that was very high. Education was the pinnacle of success. And did people in your life think you lost your fucking mind when you decided to do this? Especially within your family dynamics as educators. Right.

Absolutely. It scared everybody around me. They, you know, I was being welcomed to move back home. Was. I mean, that. Right. You want that talk about, like, talk.

About, like, not like a very passive aggressive, I don't believe in you kind of moved. And I know that's not their intent. Right, right.

They're loving and caring, and they wanted the best for me and safety as well. And so that was really, you know, it was like proving to them as much as to myself that I could go for it and. And was capable under the stress and strain of COVID Of course, was. Was no easy thing, but. Yeah. No, I. I was disrupting everybody in my life at that point by taking those moves. Yeah.

Which is like the biggest fear of an enneagram 9 is conflict and creating conflict and disruption. And I know, like, there's something about when your back's up against the wall, I don't care what Enneagram type you are. And especially as a mama bear as fierce as you are and as I am, for me to have the trajectory of success that I had over a decade ago, same kind of thing happened. Like, it was crisis time. And it was like if. If the. The planets weren't aligned the way they were back then. Same thing for you with COVID Do you think you would have done this? I don't think I would have either, no.

Which, you know, I wish. Would it be different? Say, like. No, I would have just go for it. Something else probably would have occurred.

Right.

But how many times do we hear that when we don't make the move, the universe is going to do it for us in a less pleasant way?

Like, hold my beer. Right.

Like, this is not going to go down smoothly. It's going to be dramatic. And that's how it felt. So I just wasn intuitive. I wasn't listening to myself. I was, you know, telling myself all these other stories that I thought were right. But as it turns out, this is what I was meant for and made for. And I've had to believe in myself when everybody else thinks I'm crazy. Yeah.

So also, as a self preservation 9. So, like, for you guys listening, you know, having that self preservation as her dominant instinct, safety, security, and comfort is like her natural kind of thing that she goes to first within that nineness. Like, she pretty much blew that all out of the water in order to go for it. And how did you. Because a lot of times, like, we will get the urge, we'll get the intuitive hit. You got the big fuck yes in your whole body, even though it was scary. But a lot of times, then we put ourselves in the environments really that unintentionally keep us stuck sometimes, right? Sometimes intentionally. And when, you know, the peanut gallery is chirping in and giving you probably a lot of unsolicited advice, how did you quiet the noise in order to keep moving forward when everything that was being said, not just in your environment, but out in the fricking world? Like, now's not a time to have a brick and mortar business. What was it in you and how did you know to keep going forward? Because this is the thing that trips so much so many people up.

Gosh.

Including myself.

I made a commitment and I wasn't gonna fail myself at that time, if I look back, it wasn't even just the people that doubted me. It was the people that believed in me. But yet then we're going to take advantage of that to help. Right? And the helpers were just as complicated, you know, like, oh, we can help you, or, oh, we can invest. And I just kept. I was like, no, not now. Like, I wasn't. And I'll say this. I avoided conflict by not saying yes or no. And I, you know, not great, but I just kind of tried to, like, you know, find my way through it and not say one way or the other. But I have a question for now. Yeah, I don't need help. I'm gonna try to do it on my own. And maybe that was some stubbornness there too. But deep down I knew I was like, I'm gonna have to do this on my own. I mean, if I bring other people into this. And they all saw this as an opportunity, like, the fish are swimming and, you know, the sharks are out. Right. So let's, let's go help this girl. She's lost her confidence. You know, she needs help, support on all these levels. Yeah. And I just, you know, probably out of busyness and how much I had going on, I just kind of kept ignoring it and saying, like, okay, if I need it. Right. Like, if I need it, I'll reach out. Thank you so much. But, you know, I'm still gonna keep going. And I just kept proving myself one step after the other, you know, it was action. At that point, I probably didn't have a lot of time to, you know, dwell.

Yeah, thank God. Yeah, thank God.

Thank God, thank God.

I know for myself, this is where you and I are a lot of like, it is eights and nines. We both want to be independent and autonomous and not controlled by anything. And you kind of intuitively knew if you start taking on investors and helpers, they're going to have say and that. And in the end of the day, they're going to have some sort of control, which you will not, because that disrupts your harmony. Right. So I think for both you and I, like, when we made a decision, like mine was like 12 years ago, yours was three years ago. When you and I made a decision, the universe moved fast for us. Because if we had time to think about it, this shit looks real, real different. Right. Would you say this rapid, rapid growth over the last three years, going from zero, a $10,000 investment to a seven figure brick and mortar business, do you think it had to go fast so that you could stay out of your own way?

Ooh. Never thought about that. Goodness. Potentially. And you're right. I. I was thinking more that maybe the alignment was there and I just was. I was probably in my own way beforehand and that, you know, finally I was right. Like, finally I was doing what I was supposed to be doing. I had the skills, I had the background. I was learning everyday new things. I took a bunch of risks that year with the company. You upped prices, stopped free trials. I just, it was, it was like once the lids off, I just like, I kept pushing it a little bit further. I got kids dancing more. I was like, all right, you're not doing anything else. Let's dance more hours. You know, so I pushed a lot of things that year. I was in a different head space.

And it was probably a lot of survival, you know, that. That kind of got me going and kept me out of my own way there.

Um, when did you get divorced?

Separated. That 20, 21. Spring of 20, 21. So the business was almost a year old and then divorced officially the following year. Um, so, yeah, that was also exploding at the same time. So there were, there was a lot of, lot of things swirling there. And yeah, I was protecting the business and myself and trying to keep. Make sure there was going to be a future possible. Those were hard decisions, the hardest of my life. And it's still, yeah, still something I deal with every day.

So one of the things that I recognized in you in our meeting back in March, and I love, I see a lot of you and me and I see, I see so much in you that I want more of for my life. Like, you're just, you're calm, you're, you know, that 9 energy is so, just beautiful and serene in a lot of ways. And I also could see in you like, holy, like the last three years was this whirlwind and you haven't been surrounded by a bunch of entrepreneurs your whole life. You've been surrounded by educators and dancers and performers and you felt like, I don't know where I fit in or where do I learn? But you, you were so transparent and vulnerable in saying, I don't know what the hell I'm doing in some regards. And I know there, even though I've done this, which was awesome, I know there's another level. Why did you join a mastermind? Like, what made you do that? Because, you know, you're in your own little bubble over on the east coast, you know. Yeah, multiple, multiple hundreds of dancers join.

Yeah, right. I can, you know, again, I said earlier, I'm, I love learning. Growth is always part of who I am and I'm, I'm a consumer of information that I desire to keep improving on. So first it was the goal to improve the company, but I learned very quickly if I don't improve myself and who I am, the company's only going to go so far and so probably out of need. Very quickly in that first year did I start, you know, reaching out to like, I did a kind of a mini group mastermind through the dance industry at first and I was like, okay, okay, this is interesting. But like, I wasn't feeling. I was getting as much out of it and I, you know, just kept looking for more resources, then did some group and one on one coaching. And so I was kind of evolving my needs as I found what I was looking for. And it just one thing would lead to the next. And there was something that hit me this past year that I was like, I think I want to join. And I listened to all the podcasts and always working, reading the books and audiobooks and working on the company and myself. And part of me knew I needed to work on some new tools for, you know, how I was going to keep growing personally and professionally. And then what I can keep grow how to keep building this company from what I've already achieved. I felt like the next level of me and the company was going to require something new in me, like, more than what I could already know and do. So I think I'd been listening to Chris for a while on his podcast, and it felt like a stretch. It was funny. I was, like, looking at another one and then. And I think I need a community. There was another part of this that I was like, I think I need community network. Because like you said, I'm not surrounded by a lot of entrepreneurs that are going through these things. And I said, okay. It's interesting to be in the dance industry with this set of people in networking, dance only. But honestly, I love being around entrepreneurs in all different.

Industries. It's so interesting. Or online brick and mortar. I can learn from everyone and what can cross over great. Or just. There's so many things, no matter what type of business we're running, that are relatable and can support each other. And I really was looking for a community that I could pour into and also receive from and keep growing. So Chris felt like a stretch for me and. But I was like, you know what? There was something in, like, fall, winter last year. Must have been in the stars. I was like, I'm going to reach out and see. And right away we hit it off. I felt like it was a good connection. He's. He's cool. He just, like, easy to talk to. Also Midwestern and right. Yeah. And, yeah, I was accepted in. Right. Which I didn't expect initially, but once I got there, I think I had the imposter syndrome, of course. Like, what am I doing here? Look at these major people. But this is good. I need to be in these rooms. I need to be in rooms where they're. They're better than me. Right. And they're, you know, and yeah, that's interesting that you could reflect on how I showed up there in the beginning. And I'm an observer. Maybe this is part of my. You can tell me if this is part of my nineness as well. But I'm like, let me sit back and see how this goes and what's happening. And like, I did that a lot the first time.

You did and that's. It's a good thing. Like, you know, it didn't keep you paralyzed because you observed. And then you were transparent and vulnerable and saying, I'm not sure where I'm headed, but I recognize that I'm a trailblazer and that this trail hasn't been blazed before me. And I know that I have to be the one to go first. I'm willing to go first, but I need some other tools and support systems and people that care about me and see and think bigger to help guide me and light up the trail that I'm blazing. Right?

Totally.

And you've done it like, what you've done this year. And I don't just mean by buying a building and growing your business, although that's awesome and epic. You know, you recognized at some point shortly after we met in March that, you know, I don't necessarily come across as a business strategist, but I am that, too. But you recognize that instead of getting more strategy and more strategy necessarily, there was something else that you needed to kind of dig deeper in first. What. What was it that hit you that, like, I need more help here in order to do the big, epic things I'm about to do? Because a lot of people will go for the strategy because it's. It's. You know, you don't have to be transparent or, yeah, it's tactical, but just do the steps.

Because I. I could sense I was holding my own self back, that it was actually me in my own way and whatever was in my head about it. And I noticed that week when we first all met that I was like, why am I so uncomfortable speaking up? This is ridiculous. I'm getting actually irritated that I feel this way. Right. Because at this point, this point, this is silly. Right. So, you know, I think I was just starting to set, and that came up new for me. That's not what I thought I was going there for. I thought I was going for strategy and networking, and we're gonna all talk about our wins and what our goals are going to be, and it's accountability and. Right. And then I'm there realizing, like, there's parts of me that I'm not exploring, exposing that I'm putting to the side does that, you know, And I'm, like, questioning whether that matters and what I need to do for the business in the next phase. Other thing that was happening was realizing in my transition, I don't know if this has happened to you or others that. Listen, when you're developing a company, your Role continues to evolve. And I was going from this owner, operator and before when I was a director and managers, all about doing, doing all the things okay and then meet leading others, managing others and delegating. But it's all this task and kind of operational management. But there was something very clear in me when I started the company that I said to myself, I do not want to be in operations for long. Like I need to figure this out because I need to grow the company in a certain way. That is not my long term goal. I don't know what's next, but I know that I don't want to be in the day to day operations. I've done this already for a lot of years. So though I love parts about it and I'm good at it, I even went back to teaching for a while. So all these things I love, but they're not where I'm going. And I, I started to evolve my role in the company first out of just need and demand. I couldn't be in the studio anymore. I couldn't, you know, I had to build a team of managers and then people around me and I started to recognize that there actually is a visionary inside me. And I, and I, and I love that. I love that. And I don't think I acknowledged it, honored it or allowed myself to be that because I didn't feel like the practical. Like that wasn't how I was representing myself. I was doing the three things right, like let's do the three things all the time. And that's why I was initially even mistyped, I think as a three, because I just showed up that way all the time. And then it was an identity shift too to say like, well, maybe that's not all there is like the checklist and all the things I have to do and how can I grow this and be more me? So who am I now in this company? It's like I get to gosh, the fun is like generating the ideas and having people who can help support that and implement that. And that excites me and lights me up so much more. And I think I started to sense it in the beginning with the company because I had to be the idea generator and like, you know, inspirational and like make things happen. And so I think that's the fun part for me now that the evolution of my role. I don't know if I answered your question though, but I went that direction.

You know, I think something that I struggle with and I know a lot of people might, especially when we're Going into unchartered waters of areas that we haven't gone to before, like you. Stepping in as a legit CEO is not territory you've ever been in or has been modeled by anybody really, really close to you, quite honestly. And I know for myself and I know you listening right now, and I'm curious if you have experienced this is like, on paper, you could justify not growing and not doing some deeper inner work to evolve yourself to step into that ambassador CEO role. How did you kind of get rid of any kind of stinking thinking that you could absolutely justify? Like, look at, look what I did in three years. Like, I don't need to go deep. Like, look at. All I needed was good strategy and some grit and here I am. Which, you know, that's ego. But how did you quiet that if it ever came up for you at all? I know it comes up for me and my big ass ego all the time.

Gosh.

Good question. I mean, I'm constantly inspired by others that have done so many amazing things.

And.

I think I'm not comfortable staying in the same place. I think I know that, you know, I look to grow and I look for more and how do I evolve this company in a new way? I don't know if I did quiet it. I think I just, just decided that the pursuit for the, for me is like both a personal and a professional thing. So the ultimate, the ultimate goal here is that I keep growing in a way that I can keep contributing to the company and then it evolves and becomes this other thing and I get to have a role in the company that doesn't require me to be in daily ops every day? Right. That was the initial thing, but now it's evolving into, well, what is. Do I, can I be a thought leader? Can Do I have something to say about what I've learned and how I've grown? How can I give back to other people? I don't know if there's a thing that happens in your 40s when you're just like, well, what's the purpose? What am I doing and why? You know, it's like, I've done all these things, but that's not that exciting and interesting. I'm not interested in looking at my resume or tooting my own horn about it, but like, what is, what am I doing for other people? How. What's my purpose here? And so there's some desire to have more contribution, which requires me to think deeper about what I've learned, what I've done, and how can I help going forward.

And I think because of the age, you know, you're 43, right? And, like, you and I are like Gen Xers who didn't have, especially women before us.

Entrepreneurial, typically, you know, there. There were some, obviously, but it was more like, this is what we do. This is. And like, thank goodness they were beautiful people for us, but, like, we're the cycle breakers when it comes to that. And it can be really, really scary. And all the things. And. And now you as a single parent raising a daughter. And, you know, one of the things that really, when I want to justify my own bullshit and play small, I think about, like, would I ever tell my daughter she couldn't do this or that she should just be satisfied? Like, no, I would never do that. So I need to know the way, go the way and show the way for her.

How has this impacted the way that you show up as a mom for Izzy? Because she's what, eight?

She's almost eight. She'll be eight in January.

Wow. It's an amazing, beautiful thing to be a mom and then to be a mom as an entrepreneur. There's. There's beauty and challenge. There's the beauty of, okay, I have a little flexibility, and I could run to her Halloween parade. Halloween parade, right now, and then run back to work. So those are some joys. The challenges rub up when I got to work extra hours or I'm not setting good boundaries, where when I'm with her, I'm still working and on the phone and doing other things. There's some. Now that she's old enough, I've given her a job at the studio where she feels very proud of, and she came and decorated her desk, and then she said, so when am I in charge? So little fun things like that. I'm looking forward to more of that where she can be a part of what I do and I can bring her places when I speak or go to conferences or do, you know, just her getting to be alongside me in that journey, I think will be really amazing. And she's a. She's a firecracker. So that she's going to want to be in charge, no problem. She's going to have to learn things, but she can come. Come alongside. I think the other part that I've grown personally and how I'm helping her now, that cycle breaking you talked about also was a financial thing. And, you know, so there's that. Okay. We've been used to having salary, and now there's a whole nother, you know, how do we manage wealth building and, you know, what am I setting up for her? But I've been able to teach her and have her learn. It's amazing what she's paying attention to now and how she, you know, she's talking about investing and doing like, this was these. This was not my vocabulary as a child. And she's capable of understanding this at a young age. So I'm proud of things like that, that she's getting to learn. Even though, sure, she's missing me and not getting me as much as she'd like, but I think.

Now in this fourth year, I can, I can get more time with her. And I just have to prioritize it. Even though there's things going on all the time, all the time. I can say, you know what? This can be for tomorrow. Let me spend some hours with you. That's reminder every day. I got to do it.

One of the. I think one of the most, like, I'll never forget the day we had this conversation about this. Like, it is the dilemma of most moms that are entrepreneurs, especially single moms that are entrepreneurs that, you know, when the kids don't necessarily understand. Mine were like 14 and 15 and chirping and resenting my business. Right. Let alone eight. And when we. I'll never forget when you said this to me and you were telling her, like, I'm doing this for you. I'm doing this for you so we can have a roof over our head, we can have a dog, all the things. And I remember saying to you, like, if you say it that way, she's going to end up resenting and hating this business, and she's going to. She doesn't understand that, like, that time isn't for her. She doesn't give a shit. Like, kids just want us to be present. So I'm like, let's not have her hate this business that will create wealth and all the things. Like, let's, let's include her in the daily operations so that she can grow to love it and she can see the vision. Because I think as parents, especially moms, we try to wear all these different hats, but, like, if we would just wear the same hat but bring other people in underneath the bill of our hat, especially our kids, so they can be part of something so that they can see what you're building. And so, like, she can understand it and it's quality time together.

So good. Yeah.

That conversation we had.

Thank you. That was amazing. And you have just been such a guiding light and an example to me, because you would say things like, hey, I was there. I remember. I know my kids are older now, but, you know, you could see how these things can play out from your own experience, which has been so helpful because we, gosh, we don't realize if we're what we're. What I'm saying could be totally setting it up wrong. Or, gosh, I'm trying to get you to believe in what we're doing here for you. You're right. It was, it was a. That was definitely a reframe for me to make sure that, you know, I wasn't trying to justify what I was doing because. Because time is all that she wants. She just wants time and attention from me. And you know, if it's always wrap.

Their brain around like the responsibility, that's the load that you're carrying. The mental, the financial load. Mine couldn't either when I would show up late to a baseball game, pencil skirt, because I've been working 60 hours a week. And yes, you know, dad was the hero because he was there. And I'm like, you don't even know. Like, you know, I would say shit where they're like, well, at the end of the day, like, he's here, you're not. And although for you and I, that feels so damn unfair. And for any mom listening. Right. You know, it's shameless sometimes, but we have to be careful on how we message, you know, the load that we're carrying. And I love how you reframed it and how Izzy is. Is such a huge part and has her own desk and she's probably.

Yeah.

I know. Ex.

You.

That is so important to know too about her because as we've discussed her to understand her personality. And you can help me with that, that firecracker that's in her like, oh, how do we. How do we navigate this and don't. And not bump heads and you know, anytime I've had to have tough grown up where she's asking grown up questions and you've even said to me like, hey, like just, just, you know, don't go there. Don't make, you know, don't answer because she's not an adult and she doesn't need to have that responsibility or, you know, deal with things this way. And I was like, yeah, you're right. Like this need to over explain and help her understand and can sometimes just backfire. So isn't that amazing that just. It's a full circle picture of who we are and for me to learn as she gets A little older, who she is on the Enneagram is gonna, I think, really support our relationship. Yeah.

I think that Izzy and Rebecca's daughter Valentina will end up best friends one day. Like eight posses, for sure.

How has.

How has, like, doing some of this inner work? And we've talked strategy, we've talked about building and building and like, we've talked about, like, strategy and all of that, but a lot of the work you and I have kind of done. Yeah, your team and how to manage them more effectively. Effectively, but like diving into kind of how you ended up with certain patterns in your life, how has that affected. In a. In a beautiful way. And also, I mean, doing some of this inner work can be a little disruptive from time to time temporarily. Right. How has it helped you as a business owner, as an ambassador, as a mother, as a friend, as a leader, would you say?

Oh, gosh, in so many ways, I think.

Something that since we started getting to know each other and working with you and just developing our friendship, it's been so good to really slow down. And I realized in the winter and you and you reminded me that this was okay because it's not easy for me to do, to slow down, get quiet for a while, and really focus in. And some of the practices and tools that you've helped me with and meditation and things that I started to. To do this year really got me much more grounded. And when things were going awry, as they happen, I feel more steady, you know, and grounded through those things. And it helps me feel maybe more in that gentle calmness of the nine, for sure. Feel more confident and also just capable to handle what's coming up and manage those emotional ups and downs and the stress and risk risks that are coming with the business. Right. For me to even say, okay, I'm gonna go for some of these new things with the business with. With like, no fear, you know, I'm not. I'm. I know there'll be hard challenges coming. Right. That's just part of it. But, okay, I've got through. I've got the proof of what I've come through. And now also, let's just. You know, there's a. There's a confidence and steadiness through. Through these experiences that have. Have helped me. Helps me understand how I relate to people. That's been a big part of our conversation where how I'm showing up for others, what do I avoid? Because that's a big part of it, like avoiding those conflicts and those tough conversations. You'll be proud. I had a tough one today, had a tough one yesterday. I'm like, okay, you know, it's like, what's the hard that I want to deal with? The hard now or the hard later? And you know, remembering, like, just be clear that for.

Yes, for enneagram9 specifically not settling for short term harmony, create like, that creates long term disharmony. You have embraced fully. Like, yes, this is disruptive. This is not a fan of the conflict resolution. But it's gonna create long game harmony for my life.

Not a fan, Not a fan. And that is a constant, right? Like that that's a choice every time I have to do it and I'm gonna avoid it for a few days, I'm gonna still like.

But you're building the muscle. You're building the muscle strong though, right?

It's.

Yeah, I.

It's practice, right? It's a practice now knowing that, okay, I gotta do this. It's not gonna, I gotta, you know, do it now. It's today, not tomorrow. It's. It's hard. I hate breaking hearts. It's hard to be a leader when you gotta make, you know, have tough conversations and, and sometimes just be real black and white and it's not emotional and that need to want to please others and like have everybody be happy and, you know, collaborative. That openness that I have that can be great can also just limit me from making those tough decisions. So some ways I look about how I can support myself in that, even within the company is how do I design a team, like, make sure my team that's supporting me. And I know you work with teams and I can't wait for you to work with my team because I love, love to work these things out to understand my, my team even better, make sure that where I fall short that, that the other people on my leadership team can handle. Right. And that their personalities and their Enneagram types are geared in a way that will support that. So we're not all the same. So I'm like, maybe, maybe, you know, I've got better managers on my team and I can keep doing the things that I do best. But yeah, no, I'm never going to be able to avoid all the challenging conversations and the conflicts. I just got to get practice at it.

You know what I was telling you earlier before we hit record, I had hard conversations today and my biggest fear is vulnerability. Yours is conflict. And I had to go way vulnerable today and not fun. Not my favorite thing to do. But like you said, with practice and A commitment and making the choice every single day to do the hard things, especially the things that we're most afraid of.

Reaps benefits that not only for ourselves, our businesses, our personal health, but the generations that are following that are watching us, especially our daughters. I love it.

It's so good. And I think that made me think of one more thing that, that self preservation side that I learned about, you know, and that felt like a big. I'm like, okay, try not to judge myself for that because that feels. I know, not great. Oh, not great. But then why do I need security, safety, comfort, right? And what are those things? How are those, how is that showing up in that avoidance of conflict and all those other way they all just kind of can be so, you know, supportive of each other in that way. And so something else that I've been working through so that I can step in front of cameras and be on stages more confidently and comfortably is that the safety's in with within me. It's not an external thing. And that's just another practice like, okay, it's not getting that from someone else or in an external environment, but that I can trust myself, that I've created it for myself.

So what would you say to the person that you lead, like, you know, you lead a large organization in your business now, or to the woman listening that might be resistant to cracking herself open a little bit because it might disrupt her life? What would you say to the people that you love lead or the listener right now that maybe is justifying why they're not doing that?

Wow.

It is.

We can say that we're stuck, right? That is a word we all use. Hey, I'm stuck. I'm stuck. I've used it, I've done it.

Me too.

But that's a choice ultimately, right? And, and by not doing something, we're doing something and we only know what we see. So, you know, there's, there's an opportunity there, if you're not feeling comfortable with where you're at, that there's, there's more out there that you're just not aware of. Like you don't know what you don't know. So I think the first step is finding expanders in your life. I've created expanders in my life and it's huge because being around people that can show you that there's other ways and that they're doing it is massively supportive. When you're not sure where to go or how to do it, and then developing practices and tools to trust yourself and know that you've got it in you, right? And the hardest part is starting. And then once you've made commitments and you get people to support you in those commitments and you say, okay, I'm, you know, whether it's saying something out loud or putting something together or putting a deposit down on something and you go, once you start going, there's momentum that builds. So you get on the other side of that, that hard stuff and there's, you know, entrepreneurship. There's ups and downs, there's your risks, there's challenge. It never goes away. But what I heard that really helped me was it doesn't get easier. We get better, we get better at it. And I think that's. That's it.

Freaking drop girl. Like, that's such a great answer. Just all of it. And like, I wrote that one down myself. Seriously, I appreciate you. You guys definitely want this woman. If you have events, you have a podcast, you need speakers that are inspiring women entrepreneurs that are doing great in the world. You want to find Catherine? Absolutely. Like, she is so dynamic, so service, hard, heart oriented. Definitely is a trailblazer and an ambassador for many, many to come. Catherine, I love you so, so much. I so appreciate you. Thank you for coming on.

Thank, thank you, Tracy. That was beautiful. I love you so much. You've helped me so much and you are helping so many women around this world and country. So thank you for all you do. And yeah, you're lifting so many of us up so that we can give back and so love it.

Yeah, you guys, if you love this episode, give it a share, subscribe, Love it. Give us reviews, let us know how much you learned from this conversation and we'll be bringing you more soon.

I'm so happy you enjoyed the Leadership Formula podcast. Please help us spread the word about this show by sharing it with a friend and leaving a written Apple podcast review. If you have any follow up questions to this episode, you can DM me directly on Instagram at Tracy. You can also find additional resources on my website@tracy omalley.com I'm excited to lead you into the next level.

Sam.