EP384: Beyond the Cocoon: The Real Truth in what it takes to soar into your Butterfly Szn with Aisha Marshall (SO Enneagram 3)

I think when we envision an Enneagram 3 or we see an Enneagram 3, we think it's so easy for them. And they do. They make things look so beautifully easy. And there's usually a cost. There's always. There's always a catch to how that happens. And today's episode is with one of my absolute most favorite people in the entire world. She is a social enneagram 3. She is a powerhouse in her own right. But what we're talking about today is the necessary parts about going into Cocoon season so that when we step into our butterfly season, like the Holy Grail of where we are destined to be, what is required for that? It is a very vulnerable, heartfelt, beautiful, honoring episode. For those of you that are on enneagram 3, take a good listen and I guarantee those of us that love or lead Enneagram Threes, this is important information for us to have. Enjoy this episode with my dear friend Aisha Marshall. Let's dive in.

Okay, I know you may have heard about the Enneagram or someone told you you need to know all about it, so here you are. But what the hell do you do with it?

Great news.

You are in the right place. Lead with the Enneagram is the show where you will actually learn how to use this incredible growth tool and apply it in all areas of your life, personally and professional. Hi, I'm Tracy and to be honest with you, I was a skeptic of the Enneagram before I started to actually integrate it into my life. In fact, in true enneagram 8 style, I told my therapist to F off when she wanted me to dive into it well over a decade ago. Now that I have more than a decade of experience using the Enneagram and working on myself in my family with those closest to me, building my own bulletproof leadership, sales teams with one on one clients, couples, leading workshops for top Fortune 100 executives, and speaking to large audiences all across the globe about this powerful tool. I've got the proof and deep understanding of how to help you implement this into your life. Instead of it just being some fun.

Thing you heard about.

The Enneagram can be a complex model. But with me as your guide, I will show you how to first lead yourself in a powerful, effective and compassionate way and then help you lead others that way in your life as well. This podcast will have powerful conversations with guests, live typing sessions, as well as solo episodes of breaking down dynamics of the Enneagram and how they impact your life, career and relationships. So now let's dive in.

You guys. Today is one of my favorite people, honestly. And. And it's crazy over the last three years how much she has changed, but she's still equally the same beautiful soul I. I saw when I first met her, but her willingness to kind of break down the outer shell. And you're. You're app. You're absolutely going to enjoy this conversation between me and one of my closest friends today, somebody that I feel completely safe and able to be vulnerable with. So that is not easy for me to do. You guys. You know that as an enneagram 8, that is our biggest fear. But when you're in the presence of someone who sees you so fully and loves you and doesn't judge you, my friend Aisha Marshall is that. And I cannot wait for you to hear this conversation about kind of the way that we may look at somebody and think they have it all and have it all together, and it just comes easy for them. And what you don't always see, there's. There's a lot of story behind the glory that you see. So we're going to dive into what that is.

So. Hi, Aisha. So glad you're. Hello. I'm so glad to be here. I feel like this is such a long time coming, and I'm glad we.

Before.

I know. I was just thinking that when you were saying about the.

Just, like, the transformation of it all. All of those other times were previous versions of me, and I don't feel like they would have done the justice that should be done for your community, for sure.

Were you afraid of me when you first met me?

No.

That's awesome. Because a lot of Enneagram threes either are really, like, repelled by me because. Because, you know, I can see things, or they're like, ooh, there's something there. So it was that. I never asked you that question before. I was curious if.

Yeah, well, you know what's interesting is that.

My mom is very, like. I don't know what Enneagram number she is, but she's equal parts you and equal parts like our friend Lizzie in terms of, like, a straight shooter. So I've never been afraid of crazy strong women who are straight shooters. I just, like. That doesn't faze me. And I'm like. Because my mom was that time. Yeah.

Yeah. It's funny. My daughter says the same thing. Like, she loves feisty, spicy women. Probably because I'm her mom.

Yeah. And then feisty, spicy women just want to be around me, and I'm like, this is a lot of energy.

It is a lot. It is a lot.

But it's because I can hold it. Yeah. And it doesn't, it's like, it doesn't, it doesn't like bother me.

Can you hold it?

Actually enjoy it?

Can you hold it? Or is it because it's familiar or is it both?

I think it's a combination of both, whether or not I've been trained to hold it right or not. But it is a, it is a combination of both. Interestingly enough.

Lizzy feels a lot like my mom and that feels safe.

So familiar. You know what I mean? Even though I don't see her like a motherly figure and I don't see like a motherly figure to me, but like, being around you guys feels like home.

I love that. Okay, so you guys, first of all, Aisha is my real life Pinterest board. And I have, you know, I am not fashion.

Not fashionably great at all, however.

Okay, you are.

Well, that's because of you. I think it's because of you. And I think this is really, really important to talk about because when I met you, like, God, the boldness of and the, the things you would put together, I would never, ever think about it. But I so was like, I have a creative eye, I will say that. But like, I would see her and I was like, yes, I need to be like a 50 year old version of that. Like, like early 30. I'm like the 50 year old Pinterest board of Just bowl.

Yeah.

Just a mishmash of beauty and all the things. And you have allowed me to step into how I show up on the outside a little bit differently than kind of what I thought was what I was, you know, for most of my life. I've put on masks most of my life, which I think you have too. And I think we're going to talk about this 100. But I think what I love about your fashion sense is it is unscripted. It is not basic. It is so I've never seen anything like it and I'm obsessed with it because it is mask free.

When you.

Even though, like some people could look as fashion, like costume or facade, I think the way that you show up in fashion and makeup and hair and looks is the opposite of a mask. Would you say that's true? Has that always been that way for your life? Because I know like you were the cute little cheerleader and all the things.

Yeah.

It'S gotten more bold. I ebb and flow. And so my husband actually like Empowers me to do it. And he has a really great eye, too, so we compliment each other well. But what I've noticed is that when I was so, like, inauthentic to myself and my season of life, I really relied on him to help me with that creativity. And now when I'm, like, getting more clear on who I am and all the things, I. I'm like, no, I actually don't. Like, I don't need or want your help. I will say, hey, take a look at this. And, like, what do you think? And the past, like, three looks that I've pulled for bigger speaking events, like, he didn't have, like, the green light on those. And by green light, not like, I have permission, but, you know, you're like, hey, do you. Which one do you like, this one or this one? And like, both of those looks, he's like, not bad. And I'm like, hey, I really like this. I'm just gonna move forward with it. And. But what I've understood now, especially in this self exploration, is that, like, there's a correlation between, like, not abandoning yourself, creativity, like, sexuality. And that's like, removing, you know, all of the blocked energy that when that's removed, you can really tap into those things. And I feel like that's where I'm at.

And trusting your gut and trusting your inner knowing. And I gotta say, your last three looks, because I think we've been at the same events. Like, I've been completely obsessed with all the looks.

Yeah, they're my favorite. I'm like, I've had this in my. And here's the thing, too. I. Because it's so interesting that you say that I've outsourced so much of which is a theme that we'll talk about today, I'm sure. But I've outsourced so much, so much of my creativity, especially on that front, that I felt like I would always have to buy something new to be able to reach that same level of creativity. And none of the looks from these past three things were purchased. Like, there was all stuff that I had in my closet just paired in a completely different way that, like, highlights, you know, like, my essence. And I wasn't doing that before, so, like, yeah, it's wild.

I have been doing a little bit of that, too. Part of that is your influence, for sure, and obsessed with it. But also, I've been on this journey of more isn't always better. And the clutter of the heart, the closet, the mind, the soul. Like, we can't have abundance and blessings roll in if there's no room for it.

And what exactly.

You and I talked about, the thing with the closet and the clothes. Right?

Yeah.

And I didn't plan this conversation, but I think it's really, really important that, you know, especially when you are in a public light or you are a speaker or whatever, any of the things. It doesn't matter even going out, you know, if you're somebody who's meeting the kids at the bus stop, like, we're always kind of putting on this stuff, but I've recognized that whether it's the support that I want in my life, the financial abundance, the love and, like, love and friendship support that I want in my life, that the real good quality stuff won't just take up outward space. Like, they need room to kind of move in to, you know, be part of the miracle.

Right. Totally.

With the clothes. Because you appear to have a lot of clothes. Right. But, like, what you just said, like, you've switched it up. You're using stuff that you have. What was your correlation between the wanting more? Because I know you grew up really poor. I mean, if you've heard Aisha speak or you listen to her podcast, the Butterfly Season, we talk about the powdered milk.

Right?

Right.

We literally could not afford milk. Yeah.

And where does that correlation between, like, clothes or shopping have to do with that for you?

So for me, it is like, I couldn't. I didn't. I couldn't. We couldn't buy clothes. Like, we just didn't have the money to buy clothes. And so I just. If that's, like, the first framework that I'm working off of. If we think about, like, our minds, like a computer, like, that's the very first pattern, the first framework. Like, the hardware is built on the idea that I cannot afford clothes and I could only have these clothes. You get one pair of shoe a year. Maybe you get two. You get two pairs of pants, one pair of shorts, and, like, that's it. And, like, you grow so much in a year. And, like, if you're in a school where every day you have to wear clothes, like, I'm wearing the same thing every single day. Like, as a child, I wouldn't be able to, like, express my creativity. And what's so interesting is that I'm really actually noticing this pattern in real time. My mom used to say that I would change five times a day before, in. Before I would actually leave the house. I would change, change, change, change, change, change, change. And I guess that was my way of figuring out how to get creative with, like, what I actually did have. And so now how that's manifested in my life actually just decluttered. I have four big trash bags of clothes in the front of my house because I'm like, I'm getting rid of all this stuff.

Is that I just wanted to, like, keep it all, because I wasn't sure when I was gonna get another opportunity to buy more clothes. So I would just keep everything, even things that I would, like, literally never wear again. I would just keep it and keep it and keep it. And I'm like, when I started to work through that and realize, like, hey, you're not poor anymore. You.

You can buy clothes if you want to buy clothes. Like, this is. We're safe. That energy that was stored up around my closet just makes me want to shut it all.

Yeah.

And because I'm in that season right now, I, like, yesterday, all I did was declutter my closet and my drawers because I was like, I'm. I. Like, I need all this out. And the interesting thing about that, too, like, the. The wave or the. Another correlation, is that, like, my creativity, even in, like, middle school, people would be like, oh, like, you're the trendsetter. You do this first, and then everyone does it. Like, since I was a little girl, these same things that people have told me, I've always heard from people. And I think by buying clothes, I know when I'm not in alignment, my creativity is low. Like, I don't have anything. And because I get so much, like, validation or praise from that, which is also a wound around how creative I am, I will outsource it in clothes, Buying new clothes because it's easier to pair new things. But I'm not inspired by what I'm looking at in my closet because it's not really coming from a place of inspiration. It's like masking it by buying a bunch of new clothes to look.

Creative. Right. It's like, 50 me 50 outsourced. And then throw in Cam. Then it's like, it has a little sauce on it, Right? So.

Even, like, Halloween costumes. I remember a time where I would, like, create these really dope ass costumes out of, like, my brain. And then when I was. And I was in a season of misalignment, people, like, people would tell me, I can't wait to see what you're gonna be this year. And I'm like, I don't even know what I'm gonna be this year. I. I'm just not even inspired Because I've. I'm. My creativity is being sucked dry and being misaligned and something else.

It's interesting that you say that. You know, a lot of times when I am. I'm not creative in the way that you are, but I can be creative with the topics I talk about sometimes or like, you know, one of the things that I know is appealing about me being a speaker at people's events is you'll never hear the same shit twice. And I remember at the last event we were just at, people were like, oh, my God, I can. A lot of that room if has heard me more than once before. Like, I can't wait to hear what.

You come up with.

I'm like, well, shit, I got nothing.

I haven't got there yet.

I'm like. I'm literally writing my bullet points 10 minutes before I get up there, hoping. But like you, that is a clear indication that either I'm stuffing down feelings, there's something that needs to be pulled up by the root. I'm feeling extra vulnerable in an area that I'm not addressing. And I want to go back to when we met, you know, you guys. Aisha is a social enneagram 3 with the 3 7, 8 tri type show. So she is image, prestige, power, make shit happen. She's a mover and shaker. That tri type. The 378 is very common with entrepreneurial women. You know, they make things happen, and they're visionaries, and they're not afraid to go after, and they're not afraid to be direct, and they're not afraid to be bold, which is why I love her. And when I met you, was it like early 2020 or.

Yeah, no, no, 2021.

And you appeared to be in your butterfly season.

Oh, my God. On the outside, 100, right?

Like, you know the Forbes 30 under 30. Like, seriously, she's a goddess. I mean, you cannot be captivated by you with your beauty and your brains. Like, seriously. And. And your heart. And yet I could feel without judgment that there was this inner something. Like, there was. There was a wall of protection around that. And I know what that is. Like sometimes when we're in a butterfly season, we want to protect the delicacy or the delicateness of those beautiful wings that we are now soaring with that sometimes we are blocking the very thing. I remember a conversation. I don't even remember how it started, but I brought up the word codependency to you. We were. I remember exactly where we were. Do you remember how that conversation came up, because I don't even. Had you ever even heard that word before?

No, I hadn't. I hadn't heard the word. I mean, I had heard it, but.

I. Yeah, yeah, that's cute, but that's not me.

I missed. Yeah. I thought, yeah, I'm like, I could be by myself, which. Yeah, you can. That's not codependency.

Yeah, it was. Our friend Lizzie had told me that I was codependent, and I was like, I think because I had rejected her so loudly. Not, like verbally loudly, but energetically and all the things. And now with the understanding that I have around my energy and how strong it is, I'm sure that it was like, oh, yeah, crazy at that point in time.

And so because of that, she wouldn't let it go because I. I blocked it. I blocked her energetically. I'm like, I'm not listening to you. I'm not. You're not anything. I'm not receiving any of this. And then we ended up being in a conversation, all of us together, and she did it again. And you picked up on that, and you chimed in.

Yeah. It's funny, because she really wasn't aware of what it was either, before.

Yeah, no, just that extent. I was just a mirror to her, which is why I triggered. I mean, I didn't trigger her negatively in terms of like, she's like, I can't stand this girl. I felt like I couldn't stand her. Yeah. But we were. We were mirrors. Like, almost identical patterns of mirrors to one another. And looking now with, what. What is it? 20, 23, like, three years in, and, like, we are carbon copies of the exact same pattern. Yeah.

You know, when I first heard the word codependency. God, you were a baby. I was 28 years. I was 28 years old, and I had heard it, and I had kind of the same reaction, like, oh, no, I'm not dependent on anyone. In fact.

Right.

You know.

Right. When we hear the word, I do this by myself.

Like, seriously?

That's for all you victims and martyrs.

Yes.

And I'll never forget when I heard and I understood what that meant, and. And how that, like, codepend can show up in all different forms. That. Yeah. You can be a victim in martyr and codependency, or you could be, like, the one that wears the cape, which.

Is what you do.

Right. Like, you are more of, like, this hero complex, and so am I, and.

A hero complex who just wants to be saved all the time.

And because we are so good at saving others, Even if it's dysfunctional. We don't understand. And we had this conversation this weekend. We don't understand how others can't see we need saving too.

And because of that, I also can't see that I can't save myself. No, I cannot see that I can save myself.

Yeah.

Yeah.

In fact, like, that is the real holy grail and the ultimate flex is saving ourselves. But not in this place where we're behind walls or.

Self abandoning or all the other ways in which we have saved ourselves. I mean, the things that you've been through and the things that I've been through in our life, it's a fucking miracle, honestly, that we survived a lot of it.

Yeah.

Right. But there's a different way of saving ourselves today.

So. Yeah.

What I've seen you do the last three years, from that moment, I will never forget the look in your eyes when I landed. Because I caught.

Like you said. Yeah. When you landed the plane, I landed the plane.

And I saw the shift and the. Huh, huh. And from that moment forward, like, it makes me emotional just thinking about your willingness and your, your openness and your commitment to excavating and, and diving deeper. And when you've got three decades on earth and of patterns and conditioning and history, it can be very disruptive.

And I mean, it's been disruptive. I'm like, I was meditating before.

It can appear like you just blew up your life.

Oh, yeah, it was. I.

Mean, it was.

I did, I blew, I blew up my life shortly after. Because it was built on codependency, really. And I just like, it was like once, once I seen it, I couldn't unsee it.

Yeah.

In almost every relationship that I have. And I'm like, I'm, I am. But I will take instant action. And I'm like, no more of this. Right. But not realizing that codependency is a symptom of a problem and not necessarily a problem. And what I've. What I've come to understand, and I don't know if this is if anyone listening at this, how you receive information, but what I've come to understand is that I hear people say things and I don't really know. I know what they mean, but I don't really know what they mean. So, like, I could understand codependency as a general concept. Right. But I couldn't quite see it in my relationships, but I felt the pain of it. And as I was exploring that deeper, honestly, it wasn't until the top of this year that I finally understood what codependency meant. And it's been like two years. And at its, at its core, like, I know the definition, but like, at its core because like, if something is, it shouldn't be confusing, it should be simply understood. And it was still confusing for me. And at its core it's like my happiness is dependent upon someone else. And like, what I realize now is that codependency is not just. I mean it is, but it's a symptom for me. It shows up as a symptom of like not loving myself or not having the self worth, which was a symptom of not getting love the way I needed love when I was a child. And so because it's a symptom of self worth and finding my worth, attaching it on someone else, the symptom is creating a codependent relationship. And it was like, yes, my life blew up. Yes, I still feel like I'm barely on the way out of it. But like version season one of Blow up, your life was like your codependent. Season two has been like, okay, what is codependency? And trying to remove it from my life. And then season three is like, oh, this is what codependency is, but this is why. And then season four has been like, deal with the why, you know, so it's like you have to get to the root of something if you want to eradicate it. And.

The root for me is self worth, self love, and realizing that if I continue to outsource in the same way that I was outsourcing creativity, if I continue to outsource my self love.

I will always end up back in what I know, which is a codependent pattern.

Have you also noticed? Because this was very eye opening for me too, in my 23 year old, 23 journey with understanding codependency. Seriously, and, and all the different metamorphosis of it.

It's so sneaky. It's honestly, it's like the sneakiest thing.

And have you noticed different ways in which it shows up? Like, obviously with your husband and you. It's a different kind of codependency with business partners or friends or parents. Like with.

Do you notice the difference especially. Yes. And I feel like, I feel like I'm starting to see subtle, different. Subtle. Okay, so I noticed it in business, in my business partnership. And I was like, I was explaining this concept to you this weekend with like the Russian egg. It's like you have one big egg and a bunch of little eggs inside. And like each Egg is smaller than the one that opened it up to be the egg inside. So, like, the biggest egg was that I noticed it within my work partnership, and then I cleared that, and then the next one was, like, I noticed it within my marriage, and I'm, like, working on clearing that. And then the next one is like, okay, I think I'm noticing this within a few friendships, and I'm working on clearing that. Right. Like, it just keeps going deeper and deeper until hopefully soon I'm able to, like, you will let it go. But what I've known is that when I get to the root of something and I understand it, and now I build a new framework, and I build on top of that framework, everything else falls off. Everything that I was holding on to energetically, business partnerships, relationships, friendships, anything else that I'm. That is feeling that void for me ends up just falling off. Like, energy is wild when you start to notice those things happening.

Totally. Let's talk about cocoon season, because I think it gets a really shitty wrap. And, you know, when I think about my daughter and I also have a strong connection to butterflies. We have matching butterfly tattoos on the back of our necks. And when I was in rehab, you know, almost 12 years ago, it was a really hard time in my life. And breaking all these patterns, like, I seriously needed, like, help in doing that. And I'll never forget, it's why I'm so drawn to you and your podcast, the butterfly season, and the understanding of this. I think it's so important that people understand butterfly season, cocoon season. And my daughter had sent me a card, you know, and she's, you know.

My greatest teacher. And she said, just when the caterpillar thought her world was over, she turned into a beautiful butterfly. And although in that moment I hated cocoon season, I felt humiliated, I felt raw, I felt vulnerable, that cocoon season was the catalyst that changed everything. And I couldn't have the relationships I have today with you, with other friends of mine, with my partner, with my kids, without cocoon season. So let's talk about cocoon season for a second. What is it? Why is it great? Why do people think it sucks? Why do we resist it and try to force our wings sooner than we should?

So cocoon season precedes caterpillar season, and you can't fully understand cocoon season without understanding caterpillar season. Generally, we understand butterfly season because it's like, oh, butterflies, spreading your wings. Like, great time, beautiful. You're flying, you're free. But caterpillar season is really A place of like, you're just so unaware. And so some of the symptoms that you may be experiencing in caterpillar season is like this. Why does life keep doing this to me? This person's doing this to me. This person is doing this to me. Everyone treats me this way. I can't believe it. Like, if only people would see me, right? It's very like, life is happening to you.

The bridge between caterpillar season and cocoon season is real. Life is patterns is like, okay. For me, it was like, I've met this same person before. I continue to meet this specific person and every time I meet this person, the blow up become is bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and. And I don't realize that person until after I've like completed the loop with them. And the bloat feels the same and the fallout feels the same. I'm like, that's me noticing a pattern. That's me like walking across the bridge from caterpillar season to cocoon season. When you realize that there's these patterns, you're like, okay. I guess like, there's something about noticing a pattern that helps you realize that you play a role in this too.

The patterns, I feel like, take the emotion out of it because you're like, okay, if I keep ending up in the same situation, I'm sure anyone listening is like, knows a friend who is with the same person over and over again, whether it be a guy or a girl, they attract the exact same person, same personality, same everything. And you're like, well, what is it about me that continues to attract these types of circumstances? And that is cocoon season, that exploration. Because you have to go within and learn about yourself to unlearn what you learned. You unlearn it because that set of hardware, that framework, is not serving you because it's creating chaos in your life. You go inward, you learn about yourself to unlearn, and then you relearn. So there's this learning phase where you are exploring yourself and then you're okay, now to undo all of this. And then now I have to learn what the appropriate pattern is so that I can operate off of that. And people don't like that because it's. When you learn about yourself, it's painful. All of the stuff that we do is really just a coping mechanism to like for something. We didn't get love somewhere and sometime in some place and our brain has created some sort of coping mechanism. And we've been operating off of this coping mechanism hardware forever. And it's creating chaos in our life. And the reason why people don't like cocoon season, truthfully, they have no idea. No one would ever say this is because you not only have to address the coping mechanism, you have to address the pain that you felt when you created that coping mechanism. And nobody wants to deal with things that are uncomfortable or painful or the walls that you've put up. And nobody wants to feel like they're not making progress. No one wants to be seen. Like they're not doing what everyone else is doing on social media. Nobody wants to tear their life apart because of what it might look like when other or who is dependent on them because they're doing something that's misaligned, making great money, doing it, but they're not happy, but they have family that they're supporting. Right. Like, nobody wants to upend their life. But if somebody told you, just take this time to upend what you have to upend, because it will be even better. I'm like, the depth in which you get the pain that you experience, you will get the equal to that plus more. If. If somebody was promising that you would get equal to that plus more, or if someone was promising, if there was like, just one spokesperson that would tell everybody there's a direct correlation with self, work and success. Like, you're promised this on the other side, maybe more people would willingly sign up for cocoon season, but it's painful.

So the thing that I see all the time in this personal development land is they try to rush through and bypass cocoon season, or they justify some of the things that they're doing as honoring the cocoon season. I'm like, well, I went to this event, or I'm listening to this podcast, breath work, or I'm doing all of this. And yes, all of that's really, really good for cocoon season.

Right.

The problem that people have with cocoon season is unpredictable. There's no set time. There's no set checklist for each of us. It's different and it is disruptive. And what do you tell people about cocoon season if. If somebody is saying, I've done my work in air quotes, I'm doing the work. I've healed my inner child. I laugh every time I hear healed inner child. I'm like.

There'S no. Like, it's a constant.

Right? Right.

How do you. How do you talk to people that are trying to rush their cocoon season to get to butterfly season and bypass it? Sometimes consciously, sometimes completely innocently.

I've actually never said these words to somebody. But I. I've had a new realization today with respect to this that I will drop in. Which is why I would say this. I would say they were coming to me for advice. Let me know when you're tired of your.

Yep. How's that working for you?

Because.

Yeah, it's when people would be like, that's your own journey. I was like, I really didn't understand what that meant either. I'm like, oh, yeah, of course it is. Like, I chose this. Yeah, you're right. But like, yep. Until you're sick and tired of being in this situation and meeting these people and having these types of things happen to you and, like, having broken friendships, broken relationships, being broke, making a lot of money, being broke, making a lot of money, being cheated on, being the cheater, whatever it is. Like, until you're sick and tired of avoidance or all of the things, then you will take the action. You're just not tired of your shit enough yet. Totally. And you're not tired of your shit enough yet. Because if you were, you would be like, I. I'm done with this. I'm going deeper. And because cocoon season is different for everyone, it's actually doing you a disservice. If I try to bring you along, I'm actually going back to my codependent pattern. If I'm trying to shake you and wake you up to. To figure out your own.

Absolutely.

It's just like to me, I'm just like, call me when you get tired of your. Because here's the thing. You won't. You. Because you're still not fully crossed over that bridge of awareness of these patterns. Fully. You're kind of aware, but you're not, like, sick and tired of your yet to change it. You will be back in the same situation and I will be here to help you. It'll probably be worse because that's just how. That's just the laws of the universe.

Right.

Like God created this. And the laws of the universe are you don't listen. I'm going to give you the same situation, but worse. You don't listen. Same situation, but worse. Like, you decide. And like, whenever you're tired of your, you'll change or you won't. And that is also your choice, which is such a up thing to think about that we always have. Like, in every area of life, you have had a choice and you've made a decision to choose one thing or the other.

Yep.

And it's all conscious. We sometimes think it's Subconscious. I'm like, no, this is conscious. You're making a conscious decision to do one thing over the other.

How do you know?

Choose yourself next time?

And easier said than done when you have all these sneaky patterns and reinforcements and all this proof that this has worked out well for you, but really it hasn't. Because if you're. If you're feeling the inner turmoil, obviously, but it's true. Like, sometimes you don't get it till you get it, and until the consequence is great enough for you to say, okay, fuck it. I'm on my knees. Like, take it all and take it fast, and please be kind and gentle with it. Now we've disclaimer to God in the universe, like, okay, but please have kindness and peace for everybody involved, but take it fast. Right? So how do you know for the listener right now, and even as a reminder to me and yourself.

I know that you and I both are kind of emerging out of a cocoon season. How do you. Because this is you. And I like to move really fast when we feel like we've got some creativity back. And like, okay, I feel it. I feel it. How do you prevent yourself from rushing out of cocoon season into a butterfly season? And how do you know when it's time that you're crossing into it?

I think.

When you're there. Because now we're assuming that we're tired of our own shit and we've just surrendered fully. I feel like in that process, you begin to find more of yourself. And. And I hate. I don't hate these abstract terms, but coming from somebody who lived in caterpillar season for a while, I'm like, how can I make this more digestible so people can fully understand and maybe take action? And so.

What I mean by get to know myself is I know I never knew anything other than just force. Same to get what I wanted. And I always got what I wanted by force, right?

But I realized in cocoon season, forcing is not the right way to go about it. So now I'm like, okay, I feel like I'm like a deer with legs. A deer that's first learning how to walk. I'm like, okay, well, is this force? Is this not force? Is this force? Is this not force? And I'm finally getting the hang of things that are feeling like force. And my maybe ego self and my soul self. I feel like my ego self is like, I'm ready to go. Come on, let's go. Let's go, let's go. And my soul self feels Like, I'm not quite ready yet. I'm almost ready, but I'm not quite ready. And so what that looks like in practice is I've been trying to create this fucking quiz online, right? And I hit roadblock after roadblock after roadblock after roadblock. I know it's great. I know I should do it. I know all of the things, but I'm like. I'm just being taught, like, how to drive right now. I'm being taught how to walk again. And so when I hit a roadblock, I'm like, okay, I just set it down where a previous version of me would force it to happen. I would have got off a new site and did it on something else. I would have done this, I would have done that. I would have hired someone to do it for me. Right? Like, I would have got around every obstacle. And I'm not saying that you shouldn't operate that way, because sometimes it calls for that, but because my lesson is to not force everything. Success and life and business should be able to feel like it's. There's an ease to it and that I'm in a flow. And so when stuff feels like a resistance, I'm like, hey, that's a. That's a signal. That's a. A note. And I feel like I'll know it when I'm ready. Which is kind of a frustrating thing to hear. Right. But I know I'm almost done. I was meditating before this, and I got, like, the clear message, like, it's not done. You're almost done?

Yeah.

And I'm like, same.

How do you. Like, one of the things that I work closely with people on is usually by the time they're coming to me, they're sick of their own shit, and they're really ready to do something. And. And one of the things. And, you know, I've had to work really hard on this, and I know you do, too, is when we're sick of our shit, usually we're plummeting ourselves with judgment and criticism.

Hmm.

And I know for a fact we can't actually go into butterfly season if we are meeting ourselves with shame and judgment, but only with compassion, grace, understanding, and clarity. How have you changed that inner dialogue of beating yourself up and talking shit to yourself, to holding sweet little Aisha close and knowing that it's her actually, that's freaking out and scared and all the things.

Yeah.

How have you really worked to make that shift? Because I know it's hard at first because that. That reactionary muscle of Beating the crap out of ourselves with words, with thoughts, with all of it, with abuse even.

Is a natural go to for a lot of us. So how you shifted that, because that's one of the hardest things I've had to do too.

I had to, I was like three. It's like a three part thing. I had to remove myself from some of the environments that continue to foster that.

I had to put myself in environments that fostered like the self love, the internal dialogue. And then I had to like do the work on why I'm talking to myself that way. And so what that looks like, what that looked like practically for me. I had to stop going to the gym that I was going to. It wasn't anyone else's fault. Everyone there is so amazing. And eventually one day I'll go back. But it was because I'm a three. I'm so competitive. I'm so. And how I. What fuels my competitiveness is I will walk in a room, I survey the room, who's the best, and then that's the person I'm trying to beat the whole time.

And it was, it's when you're doing high intensity workouts, like you just kill yourself, right? But then also there was mirrors everywhere. And I would look at my body and pick apart my body and look at the girl that I was competing against. Like, great hair, great abs, great this, great. Like it just, it was a cycle and I was doing it every morning. That was how I was starting my day. And that just funneled into the whole day. And so my therapist was like, okay, well let's put you in something where you cannot compete like that. And I'm like, okay, whatever. And that was hot yoga. I'm like, well, how hard could that be? How hard could hot yoga be? There's no competing really in that, especially when you're brand new and it's hard and it's hot. And here's the thing, no one in the room is trying to compete. Everyone in the room is trying to just center and ground and. And like the.

We all look ratchet.

We all looks crazy. Yeah. And the heat is like breaking you down emotionally. And you're opening up areas of your body to like release some of the stored energy in there. Like it's more of like the focus and is healing internally and every. When you realize everyone's healing journey is so different. None's right, wrong, better or worse. Like it's a more neutral environment. So I stopped going to high intensity workouts because it was fueling like Self hate. I just want to reiterate. No one in there was doing that. That was me. I put myself in an environment where I could not compete and it forced me to have a void. And like. Because I couldn't fill my ego with competition, it just leaves this empty space or this empty wound for me to fill that with my own self love. And that's what yoga, hot yoga did. I could not compete in there. So that made me feel worthless. Not the best in the room. I was terrible, right. But I had to sit with those emotions that were coming up and then do the work on it. And the work looked like with my therapist was so interesting. She told me to like tell myself that I love myself and look myself in the eyes and say. And I realized in yoga I couldn't even look at myself in the eyes. Even in dance class I don't look at myself in the eyes. I look at my body, my hair, my. This made that I'm like not truly connecting with myself and loving myself. And so I had to do intentional mirror work. And in my dreams I dreamt about myself looking at myself and my reflection wouldn't look back at me.

So.

And I'm like that because your dreams are so much knowledge in your dreams. But my reflection wouldn't look back at me and I'm like oh shit. Like I. Because I'm so fucking mean to her. Why would if. If I said any of the things out loud to someone else, that person would never look at me look me in the eyes either. Because they'd be so scared that if I eye contact that I would be the next their next target.

Every Enneagram 3 listening right now or somebody that loves an Enneagram 3, this is probably the. The thing you have to understand the most is when they take away the measurable of significance, whether it's appearance, a finish line, a competition, a bank account, they are left with this void. And it is very uncomfortable for them. And the fact that you haven't replaced it with a different measurable. But you are going inward. That is when you will do your most significant impactful work.

Totally. So let. Totally. And when you.

Yeah.

Go just to close this loop. Right. Especially with the gym stuff. Yeah. High intensity. I feel like the only way I used to feel like the only I used to feel like job was well done. When I was about to vomit in the workout. Which really is because I'm not breathing the right way that I should be breathing. Which is leading to like the feeling needing to throw up. It does there's no reflection on how hard I worked out. And I wanted to do that because I wanted to lose weight and I wanted to be super skinny and I wanted to have this body and I wanted to blah, blah, blah, blah. But when you, when I got to hot yoga and started doing a lot of the self work and realizing that a lot of the things that lead to weight gain are emotional things that you're not dealing with 100%. And I'm, I'm getting to the point now where I'm like, okay, I'm not even going to worry about my body. I just need to worry about my self work and my self worth and the body will follow. It's just like when people have a breakup and they're in like a tumultuous relationship or a toxic relationship and they aren't dropping weight because they're depressed, I definitely think there's like a depression. And when people drop weight, I used to say this was the most toxic thing. I used to say, like, break up with me so I could like lose the 20 pounds that I want to lose and then we'll get back together. Like, that's not that. But there is a shedding when someone is leaving a toxic relationship that they keep off because they've been storing it all energetically. And I'm like, I know that what I want will come when I work on myself because it's all of the other things that I'm holding on to that's creating this environment and like the working out and the dieting isn't going to do it for me. No.

As somebody who spent 40 plus years doing that, it wasn't until this, like my nervous system regulation and emotional regulation and intelligence came in that I, the last few years, like my relationship with food, my body, game changer. And so let's talk about butterfly season, the podcast. Because for an Enneagram 3, like, you have merch, you have this beautiful. It's one of my favorite podcasts and I love her merch. It's like seriously, the swag. I mean, fashion and every time I put on my butterfly season stuff, I feel just, I feel like I'm being warmed, like in a warm hug. It's beautiful. What made you do a podcast about this that isn't, you know, something that's measurable? Like how like, like that's the ultimate three Flex is doing something that's not measurable. And here we are with a top rated podcast.

I wish, I wish I had the hindsight before sight or whatever to be like oh, because I knew. You know, I just had a really clear. I don't know. I just. I've. I followed my intuition here sometimes by accident and a lot of times on purpose. Yeah.

I wish it was. I wish I could give a better answer, but I think that the direction of. The purpose of this podcast, even just my purpose, is to help you find yourself. And if you're looking to me for an answer that you might be in this situation on how you get to your next thing, it's not going to be how I got here. It's going to be how you get there. But you have to follow your intuition on purpose and by accident. Sometimes.

Yeah. And that's hard to do, especially when it doesn't make sense or it doesn't allow us. For your. For you to. To win or for me to write super strong. I was like, ooh. Like, my intuition is saying one thing, but my ego is saying another.

Right. And so what that looked like, practically, was I was asked to speak about how beautiful my transition was when my life first started to, like, break down. And what's so interesting is that it looked beautiful because my worth was so wrapped up in what it looked like. That's why it looked beautiful. It didn't look beautiful because I was, like, in alignment fully all the way. I mean, I was getting there, but.

And I came up with butterfly season in that because I was like, I feel like it's like a cocoon and a butterfly. Because I kept saying when I was in my caterpillar season, I feel like I'm. I'm just, like, needing to break out of this cocoon. But really I was needed to go into the cocoon. I just was starting to notice the patterns of my life. And so because I kept saying that, I just used that framework, and I was like, I don't really know the framework. I don't really know what I'm getting myself into. I've never talked about this before. And then one day I was at an event sitting down, and everything came through in that instant. I literally. I felt so rude, but I had to pull my phone out in the event, and I had to just go in my notes and write everything down. And I. I spoke at the event that they asked me to speak at, and it was a huge hit. And I was like, oh, this must be something.

And then almost like, I don't know, six or seven months after that, I was like. Like, oh, I. I think this could be even more. I suppose someone asked me to speak on stage about my Transition. And this was like an intuition thing. That person. I had no transition yet. I just blew my life up. There was nowhere that I transitioned to.

Right.

And it was a friend of ours, Keisha, and she was like, I know you're going to be so great, and I'm going to have an event next year, and I want you to keynote my event, and you talk about this transition. I was like, what?

And it was.

And I did butterfly season again. Yeah. And it was at that event that I said, you know what? I'm gonna make a podcast about this. Like, that was my intuition. That was like, my higher self and God and my angels, my guides, telling me, like, girl, do this. Right?

And so that's why I say it was, like, on purpose. And then by accident. It was definitely intentional about it. I definitely have a marketing background to tell me, oh, yeah. When something is received really well, go deeper on that thing. And this has been the easiest. The podcast has been the most ease and the most flow. And we talked about force. It has been the most ease and the most flow that I've ever experienced in business. I've made the easiest money I've ever made in doing this thing. Like, that's how it should feel. And it's nice to see that in my podcast because I can go deeper in that thing with my logical three mind and then also do the self work. That's like the emotional capital S self to, like, marry it to be like a perfect yin and yang. Like the dark, which is like the internal pain and struggle, and then the light, which is the healing and the growth.

You guys, I'm not lying when I say it's one of my favorite podcasts. And Aisha, you are one of my favorite people, hands down. I love you so much. This was so beautiful. Where can people find you if they want to? Like, seriously, for the fashion alone, you got to find her, but also for her soul. Her soul is equally as beautiful as her fashion sense. Where can they find you?

You could find me. The easiest place is on Instagram. My handle is A I S H A. And in my bio, you will see Butterfly season and the link you'll be able to get there on the podcast. And I'm on all platforms. YouTube, Spotify, Apple, podcasts. And just type in butterfly season and you'll find me. Season is szn, by the way.

Yeah, go find it. If you go listen, based on something I have said on this podcast, like, tag me in it, I want to know that you're listening to her podcast as well, it's. It's so beautiful. And you are, too. Aisha, thanks for coming and chatting with me today. And I love all of our.

Thank you. This was probably, I will say, my favorite guest podcast ever. And your cat. I think it's because I'm just so raw right now and everything's, like, so new and, like, I'm putting a lot of pieces together in this, like, yeah, bigger puzzle. I'm like, this is. This was good.

That was good.

Yeah.

We got to spend some time over the weekend together, and it was. It was emotional for all of us. And I love that we can use even some of the hardest things that have happened in our life for something beautiful. And that is a choice.

Right?

So thanks for making a choice every day.

I love you. I love you.

I'm so happy you enjoyed the Leadership Formula podcast. Please help us spread the word about this show by sharing it with a friend and leaving a written Apple podcast review. If you have any follow up questions to this episode, you can DM me directly on Instagram at tracyamalley. You can also find additional resources on my website@traceeomalley.com I'm excited to lead you into the next level of your life.