EP388: The Enneagram Hotline - Living life at warp speed, when YES is your default with Amy Bartko (SO Enneagram 7)

How many times do you find yourself running at top speed yes. In yourself into so many things that at the time sound so exciting and like a hell yes in your body, only to end up over committed, burnt out and like having to say no to the very things that you're in alignment with that you're passionate about. And in today's episode we speak with a very very special enneagram special 7Amy Barco, who loves the over commitment cycle but also finds it exhausting and using the Enneagram to help her escape that cycle so that she can say yes to the greatest things that create long game, long term freedom and choices, which is the love language of the Enneagram 7. Even if you are not an Enneagram 7, I know you love or lead one, and this beautiful conversation will help you dive a little deeper into understanding those very people. Dive right in.

Okay, I know you may have heard about the Enneagram or someone told you.

You need to know all about it.

So here you are. But what the hell do you do with it?

Great news.

You are in the right place. Lead with the Enneagram is the show where you will actually learn how to use this incredible growth tool and apply it in all areas of your life, personally and professionally. Hi, I'm Tracy and to be honest with you, I was a skeptic of the Enneagram before I started to actually integrate it into my life. In fact, in true enneagram 8 style, I told my therapist to F off when she wanted me to dive into.

It well over a decade ago.

Now that I have more than a decade of experience using the Enneagram and working on myself in my family with those closest to me, building my own bulletproof leadership sales teams with one on one clients, couples, leading workshops for top Fortune 100 executives, and speaking to large audiences all across the globe about this powerful tool. I've got the proof and deep understanding of how to help you implement this into your life instead of it just being some fun thing you heard about. The Enneagram can be a complex model, but with me as your guide, I will show you how to first lead yourself in a powerful, effective and compassionate way and then help you lead others that way in your life as well. This podcast will have powerful conversations with guests, live typing sessions, as well as solo episodes of breaking down dynamics of the Enneagram and how they impact your life, career and relationships. So now let's dive in.

All right you guys, I am excited to bring you one of my favorite people that I've met Along the way in my journey of doing workshops for mastermind groups and leadership programs. My dear friend Amy bartco is an enneagram 7. And you can feel that beautiful 7 energy the minute you are in space space with her. She just lights up every room. And so when she popped up on my calendar to be a guest on the Enneagram hotline, I was so excited because not only do I get filled up and. And feel more alive when I'm with her, but I know, like, she's super transparent and vulnerable and will help many of you listening. Whether you're an enneagram 7 or not, I know this conversation will help you, so. Hey, Amy. What's happening?

Hi, Tracy. Oh, my gosh. Thank you for having me. And I'm just. You light me up. So I. I appreciate those kind words that you just shared, but I just really, really enjoy being in your presence, and you really kind of made me blush. I'm tingling here.

So had you heard of the Enneagram before I showed up, or. No.

So funny. I'd never heard of the Enneagram until I entered Rebecca's world. Rebecca Caffiero. And as soon as I heard it, and she kept referring to it, I. I hopped online to something, and I immediately did a test to see what my Enneagram was. But then I had the opportunity to do your Enneagram evaluation, and I felt like that better described me. So, yes and no.

Did your test that you had taken before, was it accurate? I think yours was accurate as a seven, wasn't it?

It was accurate as a seven, but it also said that I was a three, which, funny you had mentioned that there's no way I'm a three.

Yeah, no, I mean, you can. I mean, you're. You've got a strong work ethic. You get shit done. No doubt, like, threes can behaviorally, but, like, your energy and your essence doesn't read that way at all. That's the beauty of, you know, being in people's energy and doing this work for as long as I have. Like, I can pick up on when somebody is like, no, that's probably not accurate. So when we did the workshop as the group, what was the biggest aha you had about being an enneagram7? Or. Or like, oh, shit, there it is. And I didn't know words to put to what that was.

So I feel like the aha moment was when. Because I thought that there was a three in me just because of the previous test, and I remember you saying, so the seven wasn't a surprise. And, you know, I feel proud to be a seven. You know, I feel like. I feel like that's like really distract describes me. And in learning from you on how it makes me tick more, I feel like that was great. But I kept like looking around the corner for this three, and I feel like the aha moment that I walked away with was when you told me, amy, you would not be able to do what you do if you were a three. And I was like, and I'm getting tingles right now just literally because I was like, oh, okay.

That made a lot of sense to me. Not to mention the tri types, right?

So for those of you listening what she does, she does high level influencer and celebrity marketing or PR and product placement. And I want to preface this by saying she could do what she does if she was in enneagram 3, she wouldn't do it. Well, probably not. Probably not as well. Because, like, honestly, a three's ego and being the best is really important to them. And when you aren't the best in the room, at least on those measurables. Right. Let's just be clear. It's very challenging for a three to be second tier in anything, which is what makes them amazing, but also why it might be challenging to do what they did. And, you know, like, for those of you that have taken an online test and you have these and they're. They're inaccurate 65 to 70% of the time, but they're a great starting point to be aware of, like the other types and stuff. And I know, like, I mean, I wanted to be a three too, and I was mistyped originally as a three, because, gosh darn it, they make it look so damn easy, right? And like, nothing rattles them. And see a goal, hit a goal and you know, they've got their. Their hangups. And I couldn't be a three if I tried either. And it frustrates me because I just want to put blinders on and not give a shit about certain things, but I do. And as an enneagram 7, you know, you default into the motives and the fears of the seven, right? Like being boxed in seven's love options. And anything's possible. It's why you are good at what you do, because you can think outside the box for influencer, marketing and celebrity shit. Like you, you there. There is no answer of no. You will figure it out and you'll figure out a cool ass way to do it. And even though you default to that, like you talked about, because I think we're going to get into the tri type a little bit here. We do use the other centers of intelligence. Even though you go to the thinking center and think about like forward, like that's why you're a good innovator and visionary for a lot of these brands. But you also do use your feelings and you also do use your instincts and you know that instinctual part of you is like, like, what do I do about this and what is happening now? And then the feeling centers, what do I feel about this and what has happened? And you know, I was looking for the three for you, but it's not there because threes process feelings very different than you do. And so Amy has the 7, 4, 9 tri type which is like, it made total sense when she was telling me what she did. Like she can be that visionary and innovator and default to what Sevens do best, right? But when she's dealing with what is happening now, especially in that high profile kind of area of her professional life, that 9 is very Yoda like and non judgmental and not easily rattled, which is brilliant. Like thank God. And then the four in your feeling center, intuition and empathy and more imagination in creative ways. So like that, that 749 combo is called the gentle spirit. And I think when I told you that like that's where it was like, ah, I'm home.

Yes, yes. When you use those words with me, the gentle spirit, it was like, oh my gosh, that literally tells me so much about me. And just those words and it was.

Those words were very impactful for me because I feel like I, I am a feeler, you know, and I am empathetic, you know, and I don't like conflict. But I'm also, I can also just stand up and face, you know, the honesty, you know, and let's have an honest conversation and whatever you're going to tell me.

You can tell me and I'm not going to judge you. I'm not going to take, you know, issue it. So, so yeah, that was very.

Enlightening. And that aha moment.

The cool thing about like being a seven is like even though Sevens don't love conflict or hard feelings, they don't, they don't like tough things. But being bookended and supported with that 9 and 4 combo, the, the beautiful non judgmental, inclusive part of the nine, the, the bigger thinker of a nine. And then that, that four is like I said, the most intuitive and empathetic on the enneagram, but also not rattled by intensity or, or Deep emotion. So even though the seven in you is like, oh, I don't like this, between that nine and four, really supporting you, it's why you can stay in the trenches with some crazy ass. I'm sure dealing with celebrities. Yeah.

Right. Well. And they're. They're really just people. Right. You know, we're all just people. And I love it. And I feel like that. And that's why I don't. I mean, my friends have no idea what I do. And, you know that just last week I was, you know, talking with, you know, Hillary Swanks people, because I. It doesn't define me. It just.

Doesn'T define me. It's not who I am. And it's just. It's what I do.

I love it. And a three would absolutely be telling everyone who they're working with.

Which, I mean, I love threes, don't get me wrong. Yeah, you're a vault.

Yeah, it just. No, I. Yeah, it just doesn't. Yeah. Even roll off my tongue. So.

So.

Yeah. And I feel better about that because it doesn't define me. And when you mentioned to me when we were at the retreat that I wouldn't be able to do what I do if I was a three.

And I remember being asked the question, what was my biggest takeaway? And again, you know, not to say this again, but that is what my biggest takeaway was when we were at the retreat. Because what I do and who I work with. Absolutely. It doesn't define who I am.

Yeah. I love it. I know you got some questions. And this is the cool part about, like, under, like, learning your enneagram type. And this is why I love doing these episodes. Because just knowing your type, that's just information. But if you don't know what to do with it or, like, understanding integration of it, it's just some cool shit that you know. But it's not using the tool the way it can really help you in all areas of your life. And so I love doing these episodes because you were pretty immersed in it with me for two days. Right. And it was amazing. And we still have questions. And I want you guys all to know, like, I've been at this 12 years, and I'm always uncovering more ways to integrate this beautiful information and framework and system into my life. So, Amy, I know you got a few questions. What is the first one that you have for me?

So how can I lean into my enneagram749 to be more successful in my daily personal and business life?

All right, let's talk about your personal life for a minute. Like, be a little more specific there.

So, you know, a mom, you know, with friends. One of the things that I've learned since being introduced to the Enneagram is giving people grace. And I feel like I'm.

Because not everybody ticks the same way. And so sometimes as a 7, I feel like I'm, well, what do you mean.

That'S impossible? Or what do you mean that, you know, you can't go out and, you know, launch a business, you know, on the fly?

Not really, but kind of. Right. So in my personal life, I feel like I need to give people more grace with that aspect. And because not everybody's a seven, not everybody ticks the way that I do.

So same like, you know, I'm like, just be tougher, right? Like, that's kind of. And I had to listen for cues. And being a seven, you're very.

Assertive, right? And I don't mean that in a bad way, but we'll run towards things. Sevens, eights, and threes are very assertive. So we kind of like, we go at it. We go at things rather than kind of like pausing for a moment. And so what I'll say as a seven for sure is like, listen to understand versus listen to come up with a problem solving solution. Because I want you to flip side it. Like, Nothing frustrates a 7 more than not being understood or people talking over them or. Because, you know, as a seven, you're a visionary and you see very clearly how this all ends now. You have no idea how you're going to get there and all the twists and turns and it's part of the adventure for a seven and the excitement and dopamine hit for a seven. But, you know, I have to remember how I feel when, you know, I start interjecting. And so, like, practicing the pause will be something really important for you as a seven. And because you have that four, nine in your tri type, this will be super helpful too. It's like, okay, let me use my intuition rather than reacting to what they're saying, and let me look for clues to how they're motivated. Right? So especially in my personal life when, I mean, I could be Coach Tracy everywhere I go if I'm not careful. But as a mom, as a partner, as a friend, that isn't always what we're in relationship for with these people. And just because you're a great innovator and, you know, a troubleshooter and forward thinker and a visionary doesn't necessarily Mean, the people in your personal life want Amy in that moment for that. So this is when we drop into the human parts. And this is especially like when we can use our feeling center. So as a four, you know, in the feeling center, really, like, intuitively, like shutting the brain down a little bit, shutting your desire to move very fast in this conversation and learn, or like, slow down to listen and to understand versus solve a problem or fix.

This has saved my ass many times in my personal life. Is that landing for you?

Yeah, I love that. And it's, it's so true because I, I can, you know, I mean, I'm on the gala committee, you know, at Noah's school, and, you know, yeah, of course I'm gonna go out and get, you know, $50,000 worth of, you know, donated items. Of course I am, but, and it's in, I, Yeah, giving the grace and, and, you know, realizing that not everybody has that same mindset. So, yeah, that definitely lands well with me.

And asking more questions rather than just taking charge. Right. You're used to taking charge in high, intense, high level situations, and so am I. And sometimes I need to be more of a spectator so that I'm not blocking somebody else's growth opportunity as well. Especially in our personal lives and as a mom, like, even though we have the wisdom of experience, especially with kids, sometimes, you know as well as I do, we wouldn't learn the things we've learned if we didn't have to learn it the hard way.

So true.

I know it's hard.

So true.

Yeah. Yeah. So let's talk professional. Where do you feel like you get tripped up? Where you may need to lean into your tri type a little more.

Probably. Like.

I don't know if it's necessarily over committing.

Or.

Because I can conquer the world and I know it. Right. And that's just my seven.

Right.

And so Sounds great. Yes.

Like, hell yes.

Count me in.

Do it. And so I feel one of the things that I've started to implement more in my business is delegating. And I feel, you know, as a seven, I want to do everything myself because I feel like I can do it the best.

Right.

And so, but that is probably one of the areas that, you know, it's control. I, I, I'm a control queen. I learned that term today. And.

Well, you, you remember, do you.

Remember the seven under stress starts to act out like a unhealthy enneagram one, which happens to be the strict perfectionist. Do you remember that?

Yes. The five I'm A five and a one wing.

No, you are a five. Like the wings are different. The five is your growth number. So, so that means pausing more, being quiet, more introverted in some moments. The stressor number is your one. So when you feel like you're going to be controlled or boxed in or options and freedom are taken from you, or you feel that that's looming all of a sudden, that white knuckled like have to have a tight grip on everything like an enneagram one can do sometimes. Like that's kind of the compass and the warning lights in your whole being. When you start to feel that perfectionist controlling part of you. Come on. It's like, okay, I got to pause for a second. Where do I feel like my freedom, my options and my choices are being taken from me or that's coming.

Okay.

Right.

Yeah. And I forget about that stressor of a one and.

Yeah.

Yes. But that makes perfect sense.

Yeah. And I, you know, because I can I all of a sudden, instead of this bold, like loud, aggressive, domineering, direct person, when I go quiet like that is my warning lights to say, oh shit, like, like when I get quiet, that could get really serious for a second. And not always in a good way. Right.

So let's, let's think about this for a second professionally. So the over committing thing, that is something that enneagram sevens do a lot. Not because you think you're invincible, but you really do. If it sounds amazing, like you're all for it in the moment, you're all for it and it sounds great. And then what happens is like 24, 48 hours from now or something more exciting and more in alignment with you comes along and because you've over committed or said yes to something that you didn't maybe think through through because sevens don't always think the process through that now you feel like freedom and choices and you're being boxed in because you over yes yourself. Right. And so that's where that resentment can come in. So what I'll usually tell a 7 is before you hell yes yourself into a corner. Let's pause for a moment, go into that five zone. Let's get the facts. Like my whole body is saying yes, this sounds exciting and so fun. But let's look at this a week or a month from now, will you still have that same feeling? If you have to look at the process it takes to go through that or what you might have to say no to in order to see that through to the finish line.

Okay.

And so like one of the things you can ask yourself is a seven. I got lots of sevens that mean a lot to me in my life is like, if I say yes to this now, will this rob me of long game freedom and choices somewhere else? That's really more important to me. And so even though you might get a little FOMO or feel like, oh, I got to say no, even though it sounds exciting in the moment, think about long game freedom and choices. Does this fall in alignment with that? And it'll be hard because your natural go. If it's exciting, I'm going to say yes.

Well, and I feel like.

That is very true. And.

Giving myself maybe that 24 hour rule, you know, or even that 48 hour rule like you just said, you know, sometimes you go back and you're like, whoa, wait, what did I commit to? You know, I feel like that's something I should implement in my world, you know, both personally and professionally.

Right, totally. And I want you to think about, like, I have, like I said, I have a few sevens in my life that they have been like, oh my gosh, this is so exciting, and started like a whole program and sold it even. And then a week into it, they're like, I feel the walls caving in. I feel the walls caving in and then they hate it. And I had one friend even cancel the whole thing, refund everybody their money and said, this will suck the entire life out of me if I actually follow through. And although the excitement, the dopamine hits of, you know, the selling of it and the, the more people and this sounds fun, community cohorts, all of it sounds great. But then how is this restricting me in ways that will suck the energy out of you? And as a seven, like you have so much energy that anything that depletes you of that feels like it is robbing you of freedom and choices.

Yeah, well, and that's interesting because, you know, I have, I've implemented a couple portions of my business. I've added two containers because I do retainer, you know, PR retainer clients. And then I do PR consulting, which is kind of one to one.

Where.

I build out a roadmap, you know, for people that want to execute it themselves. And I'm just in the process of doing a PR academy, which I think I shared with you over the weekend. And of course I am.

Right.

You know, I'm adding all of these containers. It's the seven in me.

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that if you love it.

But I feel like the, the academy.

That is what's going to free me, you know, of all of these other constraints that I have.

So. And I did. I sat on that. It kind of circled around in the back of my brain for a while. And then I was at an event at the beginning of the month that we were both at in Nashville and I woke up or after I did breath work, I was like, okay, this has been circling around long enough. I need to implement this. So I gave it that 24, 48 hour rule.

But yes, I feel like I should implement that more and really kind of assess what I'm doing, because I'm good at doing that in my personal life kind of, you know, because I am a forward thinker, I think of, you know, what's going to happen 10 steps ahead.

Yeah, I remember when, you know, because I'm more of a strategist sometimes where you guys are just like, if it feels good, you're doing it. And, you know, raising a daughter that's a seven, she's taught me a lot because I automatically, when she starts brain dumping all these ideas, like sevens do better than anyone, like, it's so cool and you actually believe, like, all of it's possible and all of it can happen. And my strategy brain goes into like, there's no way. How about this? How about this? And I recognize when I was talking to my daughter, when I would verbalize that, it was like I could feel her energy want to pull away from me because it's like I'm pissing on her parade a little bit and recognizing, you know, especially in her business, you know, she's got a few different things. Big shocker, right? Like, she does astrology, she does beauty. And I was like, but this is the best way to monetize it. And she's like, I don't give a shit about that right now, mom. I want to have fun and I want to enjoy what I do. And I'm like, you're absolutely right. And so like, helping her find ways to have more fun. And guess what happens now a few years later. She also wants to be an educator in a few things that will give her more freedom and choices later. But because I honored all the ideas and didn't try to strategize it so much for her, she was more willing to step into like you are. And she's had time to think about it like you have. And really, like, am I doing this because it sounds fun and exciting for now, or does this create long game freedom and choices? I love it.

Which is so true. And Yeah, I forgot your daughter. I wish I did know that. But you saying that it is, it's so you definitely relate to s sevens. They're drawn to you, Tracy.

Well, and you know what? You guys teach me a lot more than I probably teach you. But the cool thing about like a 7, 8 combo is, you know, and our mutual friend Rebecca, she's like one of the closest people in my life. I'm closest with a lot of sevens because I do see them, I do see you and your need for that. And I don't try to strategize the shit out of it anymore. And because I see you, you also are drawn to me because I do have that, but only because I've seen you. And I think really important for those of you that love a seven that you can have all the strategy and reverse engineering all day long, but if a 7 believes that that is going to box them in, you're going to lose their trust.

And that sucks because you guys teach me to have more fun and to play. And in that play comes creativity and the best kind of strategy of all, which is like honoring our souls calling. So you do that very well. I know you had another question and I know I get this question a lot about identifying who's in front of you. So give me more context to the question in regards to that.

So I feel like, you know, I want to learn how to work with people better. To my previous point, you know, it's like I was listening to your podcast with Brandi and yeah, I think it just came out today, but in how she's a six and you know, how she's gravitated to sixes and I actually learned a lot from that podcast because I'm like, oh, she's a six. That's why she's, you know, doing it that way.

And I guess really what I'm looking for, more knowledge on how to kind of identify what people are. And obviously that's getting to know like deep into how what the tri types.

Are.

But how to navigate them. Like with my son, my 16 year old son, I don't know what he is and I really would like him to take the. He agreed. He's like, yeah, I'll take it. Which is great because he's sensitive and, you know, but he takes things extremely personally, you know, all the time where he thinks I'm judging him and he'll be in, I don't know, is that teenager or is that his enneagram type? So I feel like, I feel like I would like to be able to navigate my relationships better and give people more grace.

Because not everybody does tic like me. So that's why.

Knowing this information can help me.

So this, you know, it was my children and my relationship with them that really intrigued me about this in the beginning, you know, back 12 years ago. And they were 14 and 15 at the time. So yes, part of it is teenager. And yes, part of it is, you know, we're, you know, nature and nurture all rolled up into one. We have our natural born wiring and then the environments that we're dropped into in the family systems and all the dynamics play a part in how that gets expressed, right? And one of the things that the Enneagram taught me, and this is the beauty of me not talking about the Enneagram for five years and keeping it a big ass secret. The first five years I was using it was my goal was to figure out who was in front of me, no matter who they were, Whether it was my children, you know, people that I was in leadership with, people that I was here to lead, people that I was meeting on the street. I made it this game. The TV shows that I watch, like, I'm a puzzle maker and I'm a puzzle solver, naturally. And part of that's my upbringing too, is living in a situation where I had to figure a lot of shit out, right? So this is where the parts of my past that were really, really hard have turned into something beautiful. But use the framework of the Enneagram. So what I would say first is, you know, you have the three centers of intelligence which make up the tri type.

Really, if you never understood anything else about the Enneagram, you guys, it's learning the three centers of intelligence that will at least eliminate a lot. Like, I don't necessarily think you have to exactly know somebody's Enneagram type to be able to communicate with them. It certainly helps, but that's where I come in and I've got something exciting coming. But the three centers of intelligence were the main thing when I was first learning this and integrating this in personal and professional. It's like, okay, if they are in the instinctual center like I am, they're going to be motivated by independence, autonomy, and some kind of control. Which means, like, I'm not driven by significance. You can't dangle a carrot in front of me and get me to jump. I don't give a shit. In fact, that will be a turn off for me, right? So kind of figuring out what's at the core of what motivates them. And you know, that will, that will have to make us more curious human beings and more asked to understand rather than asking to react or to answer. Right. So I got way better at asking questions because in my mind I'm trying to solve this puzzle to the person in front of me. They felt like I actually gave a shit. And I did because my goal in learning where they fell in the centers of intelligence was so I could be more effective for them. So it really is a win win. But when we get, when we ask better questions that aren't so surface level or even saying what motivates you, like seriously, you're, you're going to have to ask about five or six questions to get to the root of it. So you're going to have to be creative with the, the kinds of questions you ask to figure out without saying, hey, take Tracy's Enneagram test. I need to know what you are so I can talk to you better.

I mean, granted you can do that and please go get your blueprint today and that will absolutely help you. But like in your day to day stuff. So like the independence, autonomy and control, you're going to notice certain things like, I don't have to be in control of anything, but I will be damned if I'm controlled. If you see somebody that's really conflict avoidant, but stubborn and procrastinating and stonewally, okay. Or if you see a perfectionist, okay, there's the independence, autonomy and control. Maybe an 8, 9 or 1. Not a guarantee, but at least you're heading somewhere. Right. It's like you're aiming for this target. If you're talking to somebody who you can tell they're significance driven. They need to be the best, they need to win. They don't care what what happens. Like, I don't need to win, but if it's going to give me independence, autonomy, control, I'll kick your ass. But I don't need to win for an award or for a title at all. Right? Neither do you.

No.

Your son, your son. Maybe my son. Yes. Right. Like significance, whether it's in what they do, what they achieve, how they appear, if they're loved, if they're appreciated, or you know, the creatives, they find significance in, in their authentic kind of uniqueness. Right. It's a different kind of significance. Like I'm dating somebody who's in this category as well. Like he doesn't give a about independence, autonomy and control so much. He just wants to be like his unique Selfish inside. Yeah. So me trying to like, strong arm him to do something to gain more independence, autonomy and control, he could care less. So I'm more speaking to him and how he can really unlock that part of him in the creative part. Even though strategically I'm losing my mind, I'm like, oh my gosh, if he just did this, like, seriously, it would unlock all this. But I can't do that. Otherwise I lose him. Right. And I don't, I don't mean the relationship. Just like the reason he loves me so much is because I see, understand value and I don't try to put him in my eight box. All right, so like significance driven. Asking questions to get to the root. Is that there? Right. And then you know, the, the thinking center, because you are in it. You need certainty. You need certainty. Now the five, six and sevens go about it differently. Fives need certainty that they're going to have the information, the knowledge, resources. Sixes. Like, you heard Brandy say, she needs certainty that like, she's got all the information so she doesn't get blindsided. You can tell when a six is in your presence because they have lots of questions and they need to know. Like, you can give them an answer, but they're going to have follow ups because they need certainty. And same thing for a seven. If they feel like they're going to be boxed in, you know that one well.

Right.

So what I would say is, especially personally and professionally, if you don't know their enneagram type and they haven't gotten their blueprint from me, which is honestly the best way to know for sure is to just get really curious about the human and know that you're about five, six questions away from landing, at least in the center of intelligence. And you'll know when you've landed because you'll start to hear things like, I feel like you read my mind or you see into my soul. And I hear that pretty much in every conversation I get in. Because this is my goal, is to understand where they land in their motives and their fears so that I can be an effective communicator. And at least if it's even just in passing, this person leaves me better than when I found them. And so that's the beauty of doing this. I'm also, just so you know, you might be interested in this, I'm going to be developing a certification program for people that I will take you through this process not just in like, hey, this is the centers of intelligence, but like more strategic. So that's coming in 2024, just so you know.

Oh, yes, I'm excited to learn more about that for sure.

So do you find yourself, like, when you're trying to figure out who's in front of you, do you try to rush people to an answer?

No, I.

Well.

No, I. Sometimes I just sit back and I listen. Like I was at a Halloween party and it was funny because then today I'm listening to your interview with Brandy and I was. And at the Halloween party, I was talking with a friend of mine and I'm like, oh yeah, you know, this woman, she, you know, made seven figures and grew it in a year doing a wellness center, you know, Lindsey Kirby. And it's just amazing. My friend does something very similar and her questions were, well, how much is her overhead? How much is this? How much, you know, what is she doing? I've run businesses and it. And I was like, after listening to your interview with Brandi, I'm like, oh, she's a six. And it was just very enlightening because me, I'm like, she made seven figures. I'm doing this. I can do it too. All I do is have to implement this and go down this road. And yeah, and so I. The seven in me doesn't understand this.

She needs to know all the information. Just either make it a crisis or an adventure.

Right, right.

But I just have to give that more grace. And so to your question, do I feel like I'm rushing people, you know, to the answer? I. I don't because I've learned from you and just being in your world and listening to your podcast to give people more grace because everyone ticks a different way.

And here's the other side to the grace. Like, yes, giving them grace. And also knowing this was the hugest thing for me. It's like we can give them grace, but we still like low key think our way and our motives and the way that we operate is the best. And that's our ego trying to protect us, which I totally understand. Like giving people grace and like that's cute and all the things is really, really important. And the real magic of the Enneagram and like what I said with Brandy is like the more diverse personalities you can attract to you, the more you will become a more well rounded and understand that all these pieces and all like sixes in my life and fives and sevens and eight, you know, all the types in my life, we have something to learn from each and every Enneagram type and no one is better than the other. And the more That I have not only given more grace, but also, like, what am I here to learn from this beautiful person in front of me that is triggering me and driving me crazy? Because Sixes can do that to me sometimes with their incessant questioning. As an eight, I know what that feels like in my body. Like, oh, my gosh, like, are you questioning me because you think I'm weak? Or, you know, all the things. And that's usually where my defense mechanisms come up. But knowing when I get a six coming in hot fire, hosing me with questions like, ah, I have something to learn here, it's not because they don't think I have it handled. It's like, where am I to learn here? And how can I find more compassion for somebody that is clearly fearing that a blind side's happening? So grace. Yes. And also understanding and learning. Because when grace and compassion meet and collide, like, seriously, it's where we become and Lord knows this world needs it to be better for each other.

Yeah, absolutely. And, yeah, I was on a call yesterday that in this point, poor woman was talking about one of her clients and how he was just railroading her. And I was like, I think he might be an 8 because he, like, was controlling everything. And she knew nothing about the Enneagram. And so I had shared your information with her because I feel like I know myself better after knowing it, and I feel like learning it and continuing to learn how. What makes people tick and, you know, what makes me tick and what lights me up. I feel like.

I'm a better human for it. And I. Yeah, yeah, it makes us it.

Like, and what's cool about it is, like, we only have, like, eight other basic languages to learn here, and you don't have to know the ins and outs of it to be a more caring, curious, compassionate.

Human being. And I'm telling you, when we're curious about other people, it makes people feel seen, heard, understood, and valued. And it builds credibility and trust professionally and also personally in our relationships. And I know for most of us, very rarely does anybody ask us about ourselves, right? We're just kind of going into go, go, go mode. And so you don't underestimate the power of getting curious about another human being. Even if you have nothing to gain from them, even if it's the person bagging up your groceries at the store, just get more curious and it will make you a better communicator and a more effective leader and you will make more money. You really do, because this is where it's at. Honestly?

Yeah, absolutely. And I will say to that note, that is one of the things that I've learned in my career. It's, you know, always ask questions. I was recently on a discovery call with a potential client and she's like, tell me about you. And I'm like, okay, you know, but first, why don't you share with me about your, you know, your product and what your goals are and what your needs are. And I mean, they were elated to, you know, to tell me all about it. And we had this, you know, 30 minute conversation about their brand and everything. And then I was like, they're like, okay, great, let's, you know, it's like they didn't even. Which was fine because they were so excited to talk about themselves. Then they're like, okay, well I guess we should know about you now because they already knew that they liked me and could work with me because. And I could tell, you know, that.

Yeah.

So to your point, asking questions has changed my life and ask, you know, really getting to know people better and, you know, not always talking about yourselves.

Yeah. And I, I think it is good, like I, I have to be careful too though, because I can deflect to other people. And you know, sometimes it's because I truly am a compassionate human being and my blind spot is, is sometimes, you know, we all have a blind spot. And this is the beauty of understanding your enneagram type too, is I always know my blind spot is I'm always seeking for a way to be a superhero for someone because that, you know, I'm motivated by being strong. And so I have to be careful when I'm asking somebody about them. Is like, am I looking to this so that I can be a hero for them or am I genuinely asking because I'm genuinely curious? And here's the key is when you catch yourself in ego, just know that it's a protective mechanism or you might be feeling, you know, fears in other areas of your life and meet yourself with compassion as well.

Oh, that's so good.

It's hard because like, the ego is sneaky and, and it's always trying to protect us. Right. We get, we give ego a bad rap, but like, it's there to, to serve a purpose, but it's not always in the greatest good of ourselves and, and for other people. So if we don't like beat ourselves up when we catch ourselves in it and meet ourselves with compassion, we'll have a deeper understanding for ourselves and we can break those cycles a little bit faster.

Oh, that is so good. I love that.

Yeah. So like your, your blind spot will be like chasing shiny objects. Are, are you asking them because you, you want, you like, give me more glitter, give me more glitter, give me more things to do and excitement. Right. Or are you genuinely asking because you give a right and it's okay to chase shiny ob objects. It's okay for me to be strong because that's my superpower.

Right.

You know, you chasing shiny objects is what makes you a hell of a visionary. Right. But understanding the come from. Is it coming from fear, insecurity, unworthiness, shame, guilt or ego? Or is it coming from love, compassion, empathy, service and grace?

Right? Right. Yes.

Yeah.

I feel like my superpower is really connecting with people.

It is. You're magical. You're magical at it. So where, where can people find you and learn more about you and how they can partner up with you or just, you know, be in your beautiful energy?

Yes, absolutely. You can find me chatterbox brands.com or you can find me at Instagram at Chatterbox Brands.

I love it. Amy, you are just a ray of light and I know that the questions that you ask are some of the most important ones that I think as we go on this self discovery and we're out doing good things in the world that we ask ourselves more of. So you helped a lot of people by this conversation today and your vulnerability in asking these questions. So I appreciate you guys. If you want to know your enneagram type for for reals like go to my website tracey o'malley.com. you can get your enneagram blueprint, all the information and it's accurate. You'll have a beautiful starting point for your roadmap so that you can kind of step into the areas of your life the way that you want to and the way that you deserve. Amy, I love you girl.

I love you too. Thank you for having me, Tracy. This was great.

My pleasure, babe.

I'm so, so happy you enjoyed the Leadership Formula podcast.

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This show by sharing it with a friend and leaving a written Apple podcast review. If you have any follow up questions to this episode, you can DM me directly on Instagram at tracemalley. You can also find additional resources on my website@traceeomalley.com I'm excited to lead you.

Into the next level of your life.

Sam.