EP394: Enneagram Hotline - How do you know if you are serving from all the right places with Emily Helderman (SO Enneagram 2)

Okay, I know you may have heard about the Enneagram or someone told you.

You need to know all about it.

So here you are.

But what the hell do you do with it? Great news. You are in the right place.

Lead with the Enneagram is the show where you will actually learn how to use this incredible growth tool and apply it in all areas of your life, personally and professional. Hi, I'm Tracy. And to be honest with you, I.

Was a skeptic of the Enneagram before.

I started to actually integrate it into my life.

In fact, in true enneagram 8 style.

I told my therapist to F off when she wanted me to dive into.

It well over a decade ago.

Now that I have more than a decade of experience using the Enneagram and working on myself in my family with those closest to me, building my own bulletproof leadership. Sales teams with one on one clients, couples, leading workshops for top Fortune 100 executives, and speaking to large audiences all across the globe about this powerful tool. I've got the proof and deep understanding of how to help you implement this into your life instead of it just being some fun thing you heard about. The Enneagram can be a complex model. But with me as your guide, I will show you how to first lead yourself in a powerful, effective, and compassionate way, and then help you lead others that way in your life as well. This podcast will have powerful conversations with guests, live typing sessions, as well as solo episodes of Breaking down dynamics of the Enneagram and how they impact your life, career, and relationships. So now let's dive in.

Lee, I'm excited you're here, and we're gonna dive into all the things that you have questions about regarding your Enneagram type, because you're somebody that was a little shocked when you took my assessment. So what made you want to kind of dive in here with me on the hotline?

Yeah, I. You threw me for a loop.

You did.

I had myself convinced for the longest time that I was a three. I. Everyone that I had chatted about the Enneagram with was like, oh, yeah, Ms. A3. That's. That's completely how she's motivated. Um, and went and did your Enneagram blueprint. And turns out I'm not. And as I did that deep dive afterwards, I was shocked. Then did a little deep dive afterwards. Um, it makes so much more sense to me.

Does it? Okay, because let's talk about that, because I know some like.

And confusing in a lot of ways.

Well, twos and threes.

And I've.

You've heard me. I may have even said this on your podcast before when we did our interview that high achieving women, high achiever women are most mistyped on the Enneagram, I think, because we're able to compartmentalize so much. And, you know, I was mistyped as a three as well, you know, because I think when we step into business, entrepreneurship, even though I know you have a full time job as well, we can behaviorally, like, look like very three. But that being said, the work you do isn't necessarily three kind of work. So why did it throw you for a loop and why were you so shook, do you think? Were you wearing the identity or what was it about it for you? Cause you're a therapist too.

I am. And I think in an odd way, that's why I was convinced that I wasn't a two, if that makes sense. Like, I, I was like, no, that's like the most mistyped human ever. Like, yeah, you're a therapist, but that's your work. Like, that doesn't mean that's how you're motivated. And I, I don't know, I had it in my head that, like, being a two would be too easy.

Or would make too much sense or I, I hear people say that they're twos all the time because they, quote, unquote, want to be.

And I think I, I just had myself convinced for a while.

So why.

Let, let's talk about this. Like, what's, what is so much more prestigious about being a three than it is a two? Like, what is the stigma about the two that maybe you were resisting or why you don't think people pegged you as a two before? What were you hiding?

Oh, so much.

Yeah, my figure.

We, and you and I have talked about this. Like, I, I grew up extremely Catholic, very like hardcore Catholic. And I, I was literally raised. Like, that is just. Service is just what you do that is required first and foremost out of you. And.

I think that had a lot to do with it. I would. It was service first, what you want.

Let's be real. Let's be real. You know, I was raised Catholic as well, and you know, we talked a lot about, like, religious trauma and all of that. Like, yeah, service.

At least verbally, is kind of what it's taught, but it's more performing. Yes. Let's be real.

Yeah.

Like, it isn't necessarily service. There's guilt, there's shame, there's expectations, there's performing. And performing is more at the root of the three than it is the Two.

Yeah.

You know what I'm saying?

Why do you think people were telling you or three and why were you even asking them.

Or did they just interject their opinion on you?

Well, that, that mostly.

Okay, side note, to everybody out there, please do not do that to people. Thank you.

Stop that crap, please. Stop it. Cut that out. Truthfully, in the work that I do, so I, I work as a therapist, right? I, I am working in a psychiatric hospital for kiddos that are experiencing suicidal ideation, right? So I'm working in crisis work. And a lot of what we do is analysis all the time. How did we get to where we are now? And yeah, a lot of times that also turns into.

Doing the same for our co workers in a very unhealthy way. And.

I think my first introduction to the enneagram was not necessarily a, I don't want to say an unhealthy one, but certainly not a helpful one because I am very career driven. I take the work that I do very seriously as well as the development of that work very seriously. And so I think to those people that were observing that it was extremely three. Like, yeah, Emily wants to excel. Emily wants to get to the next level. She.

Yeah, right. Well, one of the things that I told you is, you know, you are a social enneagram3, which doesn't mean extroverted necessarily. Enneagram3. It means that's her instinct and her subtype and social 2. Women are almost always, always, always mistyped as a 3 because that social instinct is a lot more externally.

Serving. Whereas like the one on one two or the self preservation two, it's kind of more an inner circle or a self preservation kind of thing. But that social two looks very much like fighting for the cause and the, the greatest good and especially career wise, that can look very much like you're driven and you are. That doesn't change. Twos can be driven all day long. But as a social too, sometimes this is why the instincts and the, the subtype is so important. It's why most people are mistyped, is because how our core type responds when things are happening in the world has everything to do with that instinctual drive. And so as a social too, I, you know, I'm not surprised. Almost every time, you know, I do a call or something with a woman who has done my blueprint and I see she's a social too, I'm like, oh, let me guess, I bet she thinks she was a three, right? So I wanted to kind of get into your questions because you have some really good ones that I think will help many, many people. So why don't you fire away your first one at me? Yeah.

Yeah. So I, and we kind of briefly touched on this already, but as, as a therapist, I really find myself being really in tune with other people's wiring and other people's background and their emotional insight. And due to that work, also kind of have to detach in order to provide that service. And so I've noticed as I've developed in my career, I really need to continue to work on like, getting back to home base and re. Reattaching to what's actually going on. And I continue to struggle to do that. I don't, I don't know if that is my, my two ness or if it's just something that I need to continue to practice, but. Do you feel guilty having a better relationship with me afterwards?

Do you feel guilty when you have to emotionally have some boundaries and detach a little bit? Do you feel guilty that, like, you're not doing enough for this person or that makes you an asshole? Or like, what is it you believe when you have to detach emotionally.

The not doing enough for them all the time?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So all the time that is. Will be the constant work for the enneagram too. You're called the considerate helper. The slippery slope that a lot of twos have, however, is you believe, you know, because you're motivated, that your, your spiritual gift is intuitively knowing what people need without them saying words like that is your gift and it's also your kryptonite, because you intuitively know what people need without them having to say. And that's where codependency and blowing through boundaries happened and enabling happens. Right. And so it's this discernment. Like, my spiritual gift is the strength that I have, but, like, I have to always discern. Like, am I using my strength because I want to flex because it's ego driven, or am I using my strength because it's actually what I'm supposed to do right now for you as the two, just because you can help doesn't mean you always should. Right. You know, in the work that you do with the people that you, you deal with day in and day out, sometimes the best helping you can do is to have boundaries and detach emotionally.

Yeah.

Doesn't mean people are going to like it. Most people don't. Right.

But it doesn't make you heartless or not doing enough or not caring enough. Right. That's. This will always be Your work to like check yourself. Like, am I leaning in here? Because your ego loves helping and you're really good at it. Like, let's just be real, you know, I'm real good at like swooping in and being a rock for people. I am, I'm really good at it and my ego fucking loves it too. And so I have to be careful because if I do that and if you do that, we're not necessarily helping people.

Yeah.

And then what happens for you is if you do that too much and you self abandon and you burn yourself out, then you have resentment.

Right?

Yeah, I do. I do notice that every, every so often when I just really have a case at work or a client that I'm working with that is not progressing the way that I would like to see them or the way that I, I feel they should, that that immediately turns into a reflection of my service rather than.

Where they're at right now.

Oh, I get it. I get it.

When you are.

Disconnecting and disconnecting emotionally, is it usually because you're burnt out and having resentment or is it coming from the place where I know I have to for their greatest good? Or you feel like I can't take them any further. So I don't want this to be a reflection of me.

I think it well, could be. I feel like I've done both. Yeah, I, I do. I feel like I've done both. But most of the time it is.

More on the burnout side of things.

Because I have served in an unhealthy way rather than giving them the autonomy to do it themselves.

Right.

Because I have.

Not allowed them to do that themselves.

I get it.

So I think more on the burnout side of things.

And here's the beautiful thing. You come by this as a tube pretty innocently. Like it is your spiritual gift. And like I said, it can be your kryptonite at the same time. And recognizing that there have been times like, like once you see this, you can't unsee it. Right. You know, and I know especially as a two, you kind of go to shame when you catch it. Right. But I think I've said this to you before. Like when you catch it, know that you did come by this innocently and beating yourself up, that oh my gosh, I actually was trying to help them for my own good, not necessarily their journey. And like your, your beautiful intent on a conscious level was coming from the most beautiful, beautiful places. Right. Where you'll start to build this muscle is recognizing that when it is Ego that, you know, that doesn't make us bad people. We're humans. We're humans. One of the things I was going to ask you, though, is where twos really find this come to a head for them is because your spiritual gift is the ability to know what other people need without words being said. Where twos get into trouble a lot and where they become most resentful is not understanding why the rest of the people in your life don't do that for you.

Does that come up for you? Yeah, pretty much does for every two that I've ever met.

Oh, yeah.

And when that comes up for you, how does that play out?

Silently until it can't, which is so not fair to the people around me.

Well, then people don't hear you, because it's coming from that place that's anger, charged, resentful, charged. You know.

I. I, man, I think a lot of it is, like, how could they not see that this is what a person needs? And. And how could they not understand this is how I need to be supported? Like, that's just what you do if you're a two, and that's not fair, because it's not.

Yeah.

Yeah. You know, one of the things that I have said to my son, who I told you is wired very similarly to you, and I've said, listen, I want to support you, and I want to be compassionate and serve you and support you, and my spiritual gift isn't the same as yours. It really isn't. And, yeah, I could maybe be more aware, and I have been, but it's still not intuitively, like, ingrained in me like it is for you. So I need you to use your words and for you as a two, like, unless you're dealing with another two that's wired just like you, you're going to have to use your words. And the thing is, is twos don't mind when we use our words to say, hey, can you help me with this? You're the first to be like, yes, I totally can. But you're the first to judge yourself the minute you have needs or the minute that we can't read your needs.

And so you're always gonna have to use your words. You're gonna have to use your words very hard for me.

And then I resent the fact that I have played small, which I've done to myself.

Which brings us to your second question.

But it really. Yeah.

I find myself playing small in a lot of ways. Career.

Let's talk about those. Let's fire them off. Fire the ways that, you know, you play small. I just did this exercise for myself. Where's places I've betrayed myself. Not a fun thing to do. Right. Like, but let's. But let you know what, you gotta be aware of it in order to acknowledge kind of how you got here so we can take compassionate, effective action to move forward. So what are the ways that you find yourself playing small personally and professionally.

Career wise? I am the most senior clinician in our office. I pretend like I'm not and I don't know anything. I play small in that, that opportunity to, to lead and assist. I play small in my business. I'm constantly saying, well, like this is, this is a side thing. This cute little podcast I've done is a side thing and haven't stepped into it fully because I'm serving in other places and I rationalize that in my relationship, I'm not doing him the service all the time to know what I need. And I'm playing small there. Right.

So what's the payoff? Because we don't do anything unless there's some kind of payoff. What is the payoff for you playing small professionally?

I think part of it is.

That way, if I don't know the answers, I haven't pretended like I do.

I haven't, which is ridiculous. But I haven't set the precedent that like, oh, Emily, you know, does have some experience to lean on and may have some answers in her pocket. I, I think that's part of it.

Is there something about.

No, it's not a surprise.

Is there also something about, you know, like you said, you play small because you have a belief that you're supposed to serve first rather than striving for your wants first. Like, you believe it's selfish. Are you afraid that if you elevate yourself, you won't be able to do beautiful work in this world that is meaningful and supportive?

Probably.

Yeah. The pool definitely gets smaller. It does. You know, when we elevate ourselves like it does, it gets lonelier. It does. And for a two that could feel like worst case scenario.

I. And this is maybe silly, maybe not, but I.

Before we jumped on this call, I was like, you know what? I for like a textbook too. I am really in a.

Profession that feeds that.

It does. That's why you're great at it.

It really feeds it. And part of me wants to say, yeah, that's why I'm great at it. And the other part of me is like, am I.

Am I addicted to that story?

Am I addicted to that role.

I wouldn't call it addicted. It's your gift. Like, I'm great at what I do too. I really, really am. And there is always this fine line I have to check myself in. And I'm okay with that. I am okay with that. The reason I'm so great at what I do is because this is my gift. Like, I know this. I can do this work. And.

I can feel like in the dopamine rush of it. And I always have to be checking my motives. Am I doing it because my ego loves it, or am I doing it because this is what I'm here to do? And I'm going to be really honest with you. There are times it is ego. There are. And I'll be like, okay, shit, okay, there it is. And usually it's about our ego when our biggest fear is kind of materializing. So usually we'll be doing it from the places of addiction. The dopamine rush, the ego. When for you, as a two, your biggest fear is not being loved and appreciated. So it's usually when we overcompensate with our ego, you know, defense mechanisms. When I'm feeling like extra vulnerable or betrayal and violation in one area of my life, guess who puts on her superhero cape and does really fucking great work?

Yeah.

So I have to check myself that, especially if I'm feeling my fears coming to true. And we're humans. We can't avoid it. It's what makes us grow. Right. Like, we're not going to avoid that, but it's a catalyst for change if we choose to. But a lot of times the spiritual bypass is the work that we do.

You can still do this work and not be addicted to it. I can still do this work really, really well and not do it from a place of ego all the time. But we're still human freaking beings. And it's going to come up. And it's why we're great at what we do. But being able to check yourself with compassion.

Like, because again, you're human, it's going to happen. It doesn't mean you switch professions. No way. You're made for this. You're made to serve people. I made to be. I'm made to be strength in people's life. I'm sorry. I could try and sell cars all day long like I did for a long, long time. And although I was good at it, like, this is what I am put on this earth to do now. It is my responsibility. And is your responsibility to always check the motive. Yeah. And when we check the motive and it happens to be from a place of a defense mechanism or a compensatory strategy, then we have to compassionately meet ourselves and nurture ourselves to not bypass, but to honorably step into that. And we can, we can, but you're still human. So, you know, I don't care how good you are at self awareness and all this stuff, I'm really good at this. And still 10% of the time it's going to be from a place of that and it's okay. Do you know how many people that are really good at their job do it from a place of a defense mechanism or a compensatory strategy?

Because we're humans a lot, I'm sure. Yeah. All right, so like, what about that, like the thing that you said about serving first and going for your wants must come second.

How would you guide a client through that? Who is saying that to you?

That's funny because I hear.

After the fact, I, I literally hear it back there like, see, you were useful.

You were useful. And I, I hear that over and over. And of course to them, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go back to the, the history of why. Why did we feel at, at one point in our lives that we had to be useful in order to be loved?

That you had to earn it.

And.

That'S, that's immediately where my brain goes. And of course for yourself, it's like, well, that's so damn ingrained in me. How do I.

Well, yeah, you got the double whammy. You got, you know, the wiring of being like a two plus the environment, you know, reinforced that. Right. It's just a matter of recalibrating and reframing your value. Right. You are significant because you're a child of God. A God of your understanding, good, orderly direction, whatever that means to you today. Right. You never had to earn it to begin with. The environment you were kind of groomed in made you believe like you had to, so did mine. And at any moment, it doesn't mean that like your value changes or being helpful and useful is a bad thing, but when your entire worth and you self abandon in order to prove that, that's where the issue comes into play. You never had to earn a damn fucking thing. Yeah. And so you will have to continue to recalibrate and reframe what that means to you to be helpful. Because sometimes being helpful is doing nothing and watching people fall flat on their face. It's really hard. Same I've had to recalibrate and Reframe what strong girls are. You know, I had the double whammy too. I'm innate. I'm like, I'm motivated by being strong. And then the environment like, oh my God, be tough and be an asshole hole and be all the things. Me recalibrating and reframing and re believing what strong means today means the very thing I'm most afraid of. And that's vulnerability. The thing for you about the reframe in feeling significance by being loved and appreciated is by receiving as well and by using your words.

That's how you're significant. That's where vulnerability and intimacy happens, is when there's an exchange.

We don't help people if we're just depleting ourselves.

And we don't feel connected. Intimacy into me. You see, we don't feel connected either when we don't receive really, really hard. I've had to learn this one too. This is a tough one for twos and eights for different reasons, but.

And when I'm not honest about what I want.

I think that's kind of the other piece of it for me.

What judgment do you have around what you want? What are you afraid of if you actually ask for what you want.

Or declare what you really want?

Like that that type of service is not what's needed, or that that type of.

Life is not service enough, I think is what I typically fall into according to who. Yeah, I believe that the life I would want would serve people well. I believe that. But do others view that service as the same?

Well, who gives a shit? Which I should never say that to a two, because you do give a shit. But here's I know. And that's okay. Like, that's like, I love that you give lots of shits. And so like, I try not to tell twos. Don't care because you're going to. But here's where the framework of the Enneagram is really important for you. If you remember, we talked about this, your growth number. In order for you to be the highest, most optimal, growth oriented person that you are, you must embody the enneagram4, which is the individualist. And that means stepping into who you are designed to be without any validation from the outside world. This means declaring, this is who I am. This is what I want, this is what I deserve, and this is what I believe, and I'm going to do it. And knowing that when you fill that cup first, you will have the bulletproof discernment to know when to pull the levers to actually step in and help people. But if you're doing it from a place of I have to earn to be loved and appreciated and you don't fill up and know what you want, you're actually not helping anybody at the highest level.

Yeah.

And in fact, you're probably enabling people and crippling their own growth. So it is required and responsible of you, especially as a two, to be full blown permissed to do whatever the fuck you want from time to time. More often than not.

You will do your best serving, your best helping, and you won't be depleted or resentful when you do it. When you do it that way, it will be uncomfortable though, because in order to do that, you're going to have to say no to other areas in your life.

It's really hard and it's really worth it.

And you, I mean, you mentioned the piece before of like the.

Resentment coming up when service doesn't go in the direction that, that we want it to. And I find that all over the place partially because I.

Am not truly leaning in the direction that I know that I want and am in a situation where I feel like I'm in a box with the resources that I do have and the places that I am serving.

And the organized service that I do that in.

And there's usually this element that comes up for twos, whether you're conscious of it or not all the time, is that sometimes you'll be giving all this service as a way to get in return.

Not always, not always. Most of the time it's not a conscious thing. But, you know, a lot of times we'll know the way, go the way and show the way and we think and it's kind of like the love languages we usually give and show love in the ways that we wish to receive. Right. And that never works. It never lands well. Like, I make sure, like, I know what my love language is and it is very different from most of the people in my life. But I can't expect them to read my mind. So I'm like, this is my love language. This is my love language. Like, I don't give a shit about gifts, I don't give a shit about words of affirmation. I don't. These are my love languages. And if you like, I'm not going to make you guess.

And I'm unapologetic about that. But for a long, long time I was like, this is the same thing, same thing as me being an A. Like, I'm very clear and like the Less that we expect people to read what we need and what we desire, even though I know you're good at it, the more joy you'll end up having. It doesn't mean it won't be uncomfortable for a while. It was very hard for me to have to say it because it felt weak for you. It feels selfish to have needs or that you're not doing enough or you're not like, you know, righteous and all the things. But this is where you will do your best work.

Yeah. And I frame it to myself in a silly way. Like see, I'm modeling what I need.

Okay, you've said silly a few times. Like so judging.

Well, yeah, yeah, you're modeling, you're modeling people to self abandon.

Yeah, that'll do it. Yep.

Yeah, same. I was modeling people, I was modeling for my own children that like in order to be strong, they had to be codependent and self abandoned all the time too. And like I, I refused to do that. And that like with great reward comes great responsibility, you know, in, you know, the profession that you're in. Like, I take what I do very seriously as well. Like I'm modeling certain things, but if I'm modeling behaviors that are rooted from ego, do I want that repeated? No.

Yeah. No.

It was another thing, like you know, having children.

I was scared to death because like, although I'm a great tactical mom when they were little, like I didn't know how to be nurturing. Like, I didn't. It wasn't necessarily modeled for me. I'm not naturally wired that way. Right. All the things. And I remember like watching my mother in law who is probably the most nurturing enneagram2 I've ever met in my entire life. She's like the most beautiful human being and thank God like for her modeling what nurturing looked like. And so I would try to do the things and although like it looked nurturing, it wasn't embodiment because I was doing it because of fear, insecurity, shame, unworthiness. Right. And it wasn't landing no matter how much I was trying to model what nurturing looked like. And it wasn't felt. It wasn't until I got humble enough and vulnerable enough to say, I don't know how to do this and I want to do it from. I don't want to give nurturing from a place of insecurity. I want to give nurturing from a place of honor. But I had to expose my vulnerabilities of like, I don't know how to do this. And I came by it innocently, just like you came by some things innocently. That's how you model it in embodiment as well.

Yeah. I think that's kind of the other piece of it, too, because I am in that.

Like, newlywed phase of life where I've told myself for the longest time, like.

I believe that one of the things I was born to do was to be a mom. And.

Part of me. And just like, thinking about this whole conversation is like, does that also.

Come from a place of ego? Sometimes.

I. I don't know. Well, I don't know the answer to.

That, but I. I don't know many people that. Especially if you've experienced some hard things growing up, even for, you know, I have a great family. I do. And I experience a lot of really shitty things within that beautiful family, you know, like, yeah, it can be both. Right. And, you know, I was a young mom, and part of me, of course, wanted to have my family because I love. I love family. Like, family is important to me. And part of me wanted to prove that I could do it better.

It doesn't make me wrong for having children. Like, honestly, like, I think.

We. We learn so much from the generation before and the generation before. And even though I did a lot of things better than what was done in my lineage, I mean, my kids will do better than me and other things. And it doesn't mean we don't have children if that's our heart's desire. And all the things, I will tell you this, like, if we're having children to be loved or to. We think it's going to heal something, because honestly, I thought for sure, and I was only 24, so I didn't know for shit. I thought moving away and having my own family, I could just, you know, leave that behind me.

And part of me thought it was absolutely true until, like, my kids became an age that I started to remember things. Right. And I had a choice in that moment. Do I project all my shit onto my kids and create really unhealthy codependency and make them responsible for me healing and. And all the things? Or do I recognize that these two were a gift for me and they play as a mirror not to be responsible for my healing, but I could break generational shit. I could know the way, go the way, and show them the way because of my vulnerability and my humility and me being pretty honest with them. Like, listen, I don't know what I'm doing here, but I do know I love you more than anything. And I will face anything that I have experienced in my life head on so that it doesn't get repeated through you.

And I believe we're gifted children, whether we birth them or not, any kind of children, whether we're an aunt, an uncle, adoption, whatever that looks like in anybody's life. I think children are a gift. And I take like the fact that people trust me with their kids and all of that, I take that very seriously. But, you know, I think that children can be some of the greatest.

Healing that we can do without, you know, putting that responsibility on them. But.

They mirror a lot of things for us and they expose a lot. It's the most humbling and most triggering thing you'll ever do, and like, the best thing that's ever happened to me. So when the time is right for you, like, you'll know whatever that looks like for you.

I know your last question has to do with being addicted to your sad story.

Tell me more. Because I know there's a lot of people that.

Feel that.

What is that about for you, do you think?

Yeah, I think, you know, one, I, I work in suicide prevention. That comes from a place of passion, experience, all that good stuff, right? And so.

I, I think part of me is.

Sometimes feels like. You know, when I was reading the front to back, your blueprint of this social too, I, I kept reading the word martyr and was hella triggered by it.

I know every two is. I know I was.

And so part of me was like, am I just addicted to this.

Sad story? When I, when I tell people what I do for a living, they're like, oh my gosh, how the hell could you do that every day? Why are you doing that to yourself every day? And.

I don't know, I think I get a little bit stuck there in my head when.

I am so grateful and passionate about what I do and at the same time continue.

To question, do I go to that place? Because that seems like the highest level of service I could do, life or death.

Well, I think there's that.

I don't know.

I do think there's that. And on the flip side, the reason why maybe the martyr addicted to the sad story is, is you see how you step up and help people through their sad stories. Maybe you being attached to your own sad story will, like, put the big alert lights and sound the whistles like, hey, hey, I want support over here without having to say anything.

You see, you see, in the work you do that is so important.

How those sad stories get them Help.

And many of them don't know how to articulate what it is they need. Yeah. And I think part of you maybe is like, here's my sad story now. Somebody intuitively know how to help me and support me.

Yeah.

With. Without words.

Someone read my mind and figure it out. Yeah.

Yeah. And unfortunately, that's Your work will always be to use your words. And it's. And it's perfectly okay and human and natural and beautiful that you have needs, and we want to support you. We do. When I had to, you know, reconcile that.

I needed to be vulnerable in order to have everything that I want in my life, I was like, ooh, that's a catch. I don't like.

And I had to, like, build that muscle. And, you know, that's the catch for you. Having the support is you having to use your words. And it doesn't make you less important or less loved or less appreciated, because people do appreciate the vulnerability. Exchange.

Otherwise, you're just gonna have takers in your life, and that's when you'll feel like a martyr.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I think the other part of it, too, is just I. I frame that to myself as, like, well, the sad story is just there rather than. How can I utilize that in a more healthy way rather than getting stuck all the time. Like, I.

I do believe there's a reason for sure. I was called to do the work that I do. Right.

For sure.

And so how can I. I think the next kind of step.

Let me ask you something.

Oh, yeah.

Let me ask you something. Oh, boy. Do you think that you can't serve if you don't have a sad story to bring to the table?

Do you think, like, without. Like, if you actually healed that sad story that you keep telling yourself or staying stuck in, you won't be able to help people or you won't be as relatable or won't be able to empathize with people as much.

To be honest. No.

Okay, good.

No, because I. I think that's actually, like, what I want.

Great.

Truthfully.

Good.

Yeah. I think.

Sometimes I. I do get stuck in this place of, like, well, how. How could I serve fully if I couldn't relate in some way, which I. I know is also a kind of slippery slope to be in there too. But.

No, I. I think that is.

The place I'd like to be.

Then what's the payoff for you being stuck in the sad story? Because there's always a payoff. Like, we keep. We. We will continue to do something if there's something we get from it. How does it keep you safe.

Or feeling significant? Do you know? And you may not know, you don't have to answer that right now, but, you know, there's a reason why we continue to do things.

Yeah.

I don't have an immediate. I think part of it is because it, you know, saves me from having to do the vulnerable work.

The short answer.

Yeah, yeah. And you can keep your cute side gig.

And it can just be something cute rather than you stepping into it. You know what I mean? Like, I have to check myself too, because there's things that I'm doing in my life that frustrate the crap out of me. And I asked myself, I'm like, what's the payoff? Why do I keep doing it if I'm frustrated by it? Like, there's a reason why I'm still doing it. And it usually goes to our biggest fear happening. Right. Like you doing something that you enjoy, that you love. Will you be as loved and appreciated if you do that? Because it's what you want rather than, you know, all the beautiful work you do? You can do both or you can say this part of the story's over at any time. You know, what is your favorite thing about being an enneagram too, now that you've, like, come to terms with that?

I think in a. I don't know if this is the healthiest answer. I think.

I do.

Love the fact that.

I. I do believe my motivation is to help.

Rather than to achieve. I think I. I shamed myself when I was in a place of thinking I was a three.

Oh, well, you just want to excel or you just want to achieve. And.

I don't know. I.

Comforting to know in some ways and frustrating in others. But I think that my.

My favorite piece is it. It does validate a lot of the things that I know I want to do.

Good.

It does.

Align with a lot of the things that I've. I've wanted to do for a long time.

Good. And you can. You can do both at the same time. You can serve, you can help, and you can achieve. And all of it is absolutely okay.

You know, the. The two threes and fours in the heart center of intelligence. You guys are the relationship connectors, inspiration to the rest of us. Like, all of it's important. And you know, you're here for a calling that's on your life. So I'm going to encourage you to continue to step into it. What is like, one piece of advice you can give those of us that aren't a two, but love or lead one. What's the best advice that you could give us to support you better? I'm asking you to use your words now. Look at that.

Yeah, I know. Look at you.

I.

I think one of the.

Biggest ways that I.

Feel seen and heard and listened to is when I'm called out and asked uncomfortable questions. Like, believe it or not, I do think that that's when I like when you ask me tough questions. I'm like, oh shit, I'm seen right now. And yes, it's uncomfortable, but it is like the best kind, I think.

Yeah.

I think that's when I feel the most heard. Especially when those, those questions are spot on. You know.

I. And that's not an ask to. To read my mind. I think A2 wants to be asked difficult questions.

I'll give everybody a piece of advice. Yeah, like with twos, you guys, you don't necessarily have to hold back the truth. However. Yeah, they actually appreciate the truth, however, your tone, your timing and your delivery of it. Like, there's a reason why I'm talking a lot slower than I typically do and less intense than I normally would because like the tone and the timing, like, I've hit you with some hard ass questions today. Fired back at you, but it was with. Because twos will pick up on the energy and the tone and the timing and, and all of that. But they, they really do value you taking the time to see them and ask them the hard questions. But please make sure that you do it from a place that is gentle and kind and softer even when it's an intense question. Like, I'm not going to change my intensity obviously, but I can change the delivery of it. Delivery of it for you so that it's a win win. Like I can still be direct and truthful, which is the way that I operate, but I can do it in a loving way that you can receive it. So for those of you that love lead are in relationship with A two, if you learn nothing else from this episode, tone and timing and delivery is everything for it too. Emily, you're so awesome. I appreciate the work that you do in the world. It's so important. Where can people find your podcast? Not just this cutesy side gig, but it's actually a really great podcast and learn more about you.

Yeah. Yeah. So I host the Kind Mind project for about three years now and hang out over on Instagram at Emily and the Kind Mind.

You guys go check her out. If you love this episode, please share it I know I have a lot of two listeners and a lot of people that love twos. I know this is definitely will land on the hearts of many of you. So let us know what you think about it. Give Emily some love and as always, if you want to dive in deep to your Enneagram type and be accurately typed, go get your blueprint@tracy o'malley.com, the work with me section so that you have the right roadmap for you so you can start uncovering what you are always called to do in this lifetime and make the impact that you were meant to make. And I'm wishing you so much love and transformation out in this world. Emily, I appreciate you coming on you.

Thank thank you so much.

I'm so happy you enjoyed the lead with the Enneagram podcast. Please help us spread the word about this show and the Enneagram by sharing it with a friend and leaving a written Apple Podcast review. If you have any follow up questions to this episode, you can DM me on Instagram @tracee_o'.

Malley.

You can also find additional resources on my website@tracyomalley.com I'm so excited to to lead you into the next level of your life.