EP396: Enneagram Hotline - Finding Freedom: Saying 'No' as a Superpower for a SO Enneagram 2 with Tisha C.

Okay, I know you may have heard about the Enneagram or someone told you.

You need to know all about it.

So here you are.

But what the hell do you do with it? Great news. You are in the right place.

Lead with the Enneagram is the show where you will actually learn how to use this incredible growth tool and apply it in all areas of your life, personally and professional. Hi, I'm Tracy. And to be honest with you, I.

Was a skeptic of the Enneagram before.

I started to actually integrate it into my life. In fact, in true enneagram 8 style, I told my therapist to F off when she wanted me to dive into.

It well over a decade ago.

Now that I have more than a decade of experience using the Enneagram and working on myself in my family with those closest to me, building my own bulletproof leadership, sales teams with one on one clients, couples, leading workshops for top Fortune 100 executives, and speaking to large audiences all across the globe about this powerful tool. I've got the proof and deep understanding.

Of how to help you implement this.

Into your life instead of it just being some fun thing you heard about. The Enneagram can be a complex model. But with me as your guide, I will show you how to first lead yourself in a powerful, effective and compassionate way and then help you lead others that way in your life as well. This podcast will have powerful conversations with guests, live typing sessions, and as well as solo episodes of Breaking down dynamics of the Enneagram and how they impact your life, career and relationships. So now let's dive in.

Guys. Welcome back to another episode of Lead with the Enneagram. It is one of your favorite kind of episodes where I bring people just like you on to ask questions on what the hell do we do with this Enneagram now that we know what we're dealing with? These people that have come on, have done and gone through my blueprint process and typing process. So they're accurate, accurately typed. But information doesn't equal transformation. It's what we do with it. And I love to bring people on to ask the questions on. Okay, now that I know I have the right information and the right roadmap, this is where I get tripped up. What do I do with it? And so we opened up the Enneagram hotline and I have done some crazy, beautiful interviews and today will be no exception with Tisha with no R. It's not Tricia, it's Tisha. And she was one of those people that I think you were part of.

I did A networking event. And I was talking about the Enneagram, and she was one of those. And this is probably one of you that I came up a 369421. Like, I'm all of them and I see that a lot. And I remember you kind of like battling me, like you really wanted to know. And obviously, like, I'm a wizard when it comes to a lot of this, but, like, until I really spend a little time with you, I can't for sure know for sure. No, but she was one of those who wasn't sold on it at first until I said one thing. And we'll get into that, so. Tisha. Hi. Thanks for coming on. I'm excited to have you.

Thank you so much. It's so good to see you, Tracy. Thank you.

So let's go back to something I asked you before we hit record. Why did you want to do this? And what about the Enneagram has intrigued you at least where I'm concerned?

Absolutely. So I was new to the Enneagram when I was first cast a couple years ago, and I assumed it was just another personality test. I've done hundreds of them through the world, especially in corporate America and all the things. And I was not surprised that my results were, I'm a little bit at everything because I'm a chameleon and I fit the roles and I do all my things. And then I met you at a networking event, like you had mentioned and kind of shared that story with you, and you recommended doing your blueprint. So I did. And I got my results. And I thought. I thought she knew what she was talking about, but there's no way that she could because the one thing she said I was, was the one thing I wasn't according to any of the other exams that I'd done before. So. But as I read into it and I had a chance to talk with you and you. You explained to me that it's not about all the things I'm doing, it's about why I'm doing all those things. And that really hit home. And I thought, all right, I got to figure out what all this means. This is not surface level to do list checklist things.

No.

So that's what I want to know.

And you came out as a social Enneagram too, which I. Okay, this is for all of you listening, especially you high achieving women that have typed as something else, usually a three. A lot of threes, sixes, nines, sevens, eights even fall into this category. A lot of you are social. Twos, quite honestly, because the social two can look very high achiever. Like high achieving women almost always are mistyped because we can compartmentalize so much. But when we kind of pull back the layers and we get to understanding the why, why we do all those things, why we achieve, why we people please, why we make shit happen the way we do. A lot of you are rooted in the heart and soul of the Enneagram too, which is called the considerate helper. And you are motivated by a form of significance in what you do by being loved and appreciated in this world. How did that sit with you when you got that? Were you mad about it? Were you like, convicted? Did you have compassion for yourself? Did you judge? Where did you go with it? Because I know this happens a lot.

I thought it was not right.

And really. Because I never really considered myself driven by my emotions. I'm in my head space a lot. So I do as I'm supposed to do. And regardless of how it makes you feel, you just suck it up, put your big girl pants on, and get the job done. So to think that my motivation was emotional and there was a heart trigger was at first very difficult for me to process. And then when I did, I wanted to just break down and cry. I'm like, oh my gosh, that makes so much more sense. But I definitely was very resistant to it initially.

Yeah, that social instinct, like, this is why a lot of you are mistyped on the Enneagram, because those. This is where nurture collides with nature. And depending on what you've experienced and what your default instinct is, this is also why, as a social type, it doesn't mean extroverted, by the way. Social doesn't mean extroverted. My son is a social two as well. And that means you kind of go. When things happen, you go into, how does this affect the collective first rather than yourself? Which is very contradictory to the two, because the two kind of is. You know so much about that love and appreciation, but you kind of bypass that with that social instinct first. And it's why a lot of social twos are mistyped to something else.

What. What did I want to ask you about that? What. What part of it, when you first got it, did you feel was wrong?

I think initially, again, because I was newer into the Enneagram just learning about the test too, and it was kind of.

I understood a two to kind of be a weak, emotional, sappy kind of person, which I would never categorize myself as. So. So that was a big Struggle to kind of understand that. And especially when you go through the questions. And I'm thinking, but I, I can be an eight. I. I'm a nine. I can be a one, I can be a three. Like, those are all my things and those in those spaces. I think I've always felt the most productive. And even taking the. The exam, the test, I. Well, it depends on what hat I've worn. I can be that one. I can be that one. I can be that one. So the two is just. I mean, I hate to say it, but it just felt sappy.

Yeah, I get a lot of that. That's how we know we landed too, by the way. Like, when I. I was mistyped originally as a three, and I was like, yes, of course, duh. I'm the competitive achiever. And then when I understood why they do what they do, there's nothing three about me and why I do what I do, that's how I knew I was an 8. And then I was like, oh, like, that lands. That lands like a freaking, freaking Cessna. Like, boom, there it is. And here we go.

When it comes to, like, that emotional. So what I love about my work with the Enneagram is, you know, you've experienced me enough now where, like, that instinct is part of it. Our tri type. I don't know if you and I have even talked about your tri type at all. No, we haven't, because the centers of intelligence are part of this. And this is like the holy grail of emotional intelligence and critical thinking. And also, like, yes, you default to feelings and emotions and what has happened. But we also have two other centers of intelligence. You have the instincts. Instincts, which is where the eight, nines and ones falls. And also like the brain part where the five sixes and sevens falls. And even though motivationally and fear, you fear like a two, that's like your home base for everything that you do. You do go to other centers of intelligence, and you dominate, like other types in those centers of intelligence. So maybe news to you, but you have the 2, 5, 9, tri type, which means you think like a 5, which means you're very like facts. I need to know all the things, information, and the way that you deal with what is happening now. And instincts is like a nine, which I know has come up a lot. What you do about things is very nine. Like, because the instinctual center is the doing center, and you do operate like a nine. That's that chameleon part of you. Right, Right. But it's all rooted in the. The motive of the 2. So when you have the 2, 5, 9, tri type, whether you're a 5, I. I did a call with a couple earlier and they were. He was a five, but he had the five, two, nine tri type, you know, but he's motivated and fears like a five. Right. But can move through the centers of intelligence like that. So you're called the problem solver, right? Yeah. So that's. That's what's cool about it. And knowing, like, when you go into what could happen and what does my brain feel about this? Like, you operate like a five. When you go into what do I need to do about this and what is happening right now, you operate like a nine. But everything about how you feel and where you are motivated and where you fear is in the heart and soul of the two, which is amazing, by the way.

Amazing and scary. I'll just say that vulnerability is very. It's much easier to not be vulnerable than it is to. Yeah, let's think that that's what it's.

Like, so easy to, you know, my son, like, he. He is the 2, 5, 1 tri type. So you guys are a little bit different in the way that you do. But. And then he is the most highly sensitive, empathetic person I know. But to the outside, you wouldn't, because he feels very much like you. Like, I'm here to serve. I'm here to serve, but there's so much to that. So I know you have a few questions. You had a bunch of them, but let's pick the important ones first. And however many we can get to, we'll get to. And I just want you to know, like, in true to nature, you're going to help a lot of people with these questions. So go for the ones that you want and know that you're going to bless the pants off somebody else, too.

All right, let's see. So based on my enneagram type, what would be the key growth areas that I should focus on and what challenges might face that might I face in personal development?

Yeah, you guys, enneagram twos are very quick to a yes, Right. When anybody asks for anything, you guys are the first to pop your hand up. If you have freedom in your calendar, you assume that you have to say yes a lot of the times, especially as a social to and a professional woman, you don't leave a lot of room for your own miracles because you go to the yes too quickly. Right. So one of the things that I tell enneagram twos all the time is before you say yes, I don't give a shit if you have a wide open calendar. I don't care. And I don't care if you think you should do it. I want you to give yourself 24 hours and I want you to ask yourself a few things. First of all, when somebody asks you, hey, can you do this? I want you to say, can I get back to you in 24 hours? And that's going to feel so painful for you because you don't want to disappoint somebody. Right? Right. But I want you to ask yourself, if it wasn't thanked, acknowledged, appreciated, or reciprocated, would you still say yes?

Because a lot of the time, A2 will yes themselves subconsciously for that desire to feel loved and appreciated. So you're almost giving to get.

Subconsciously, and you come by it so innocently. So before you start judging yourself and shaming yourself, which is where most twos go when I say this, because you realize all of a sudden you would probably say no about three quarters of the time more than you do.

Yeah.

And there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with that. The other thing that I usually will tell it to is this. If they say, when you say, can I get back to you in 24 hours? They say no, then the answer is no. And that's going to be really painful for you. Because the thing is with twos, because you're so good at helping, I'm going to air quote that one that you are prone to. People that take are takers and take advantage. And what happens is, is when maybe you've attracted people like that in your life and you start having boundaries and saying, can I get back to you in 24 hours? Or you say no more often, they're going to go ask somebody else for help and you're going to get a little bit of FOMO and your ego is going to be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, I can move some things around. Let me do that.

Because now you're left with this empty space and. And you're going to realize like, wow, I do that for significance, not necessarily because it's the right thing to do.

Right?

Yeah.

So that would be some of the things that I would say to too. The other thing I will say, and this is, this will be lifelong work. So just know this. This is your blind spot and it always will be. And it's what makes you amazing because you are natural, natural connectors and relationship people. You're what make this world filled with love. So there's nothing bad about this. The come from is where you have to be mindful of. Right. Because if you're doing things in order to get something in return, you're actually not helping anyone. You're enabling people.

Oh, yes.

And this is, this is the other part is because your heart is to serve and you have the ability to understand what people and situations call for without words being said. And I do too. In some way. I'm not motivated like a 2, but I can do this too. That just because you can help doesn't mean you should.

Right.

And sometimes we clip people's wings. We chip away at their confidence, and we actually make them lazy leaders.

If we don't let them learn the hard way. We can do that with compassion. Right. Sometimes the best thing a two can do is say no so that people have to figure it out the harder way. And you can still hold that space and be a guide rather than the doer and the enabler. That one landed. I can feel you and see you.

Yeah, the, the enabling part, that was something years ago that I had kind of, kind of ran through my brain. You know what I think a lot of these situations I'm in. But. But then again, to kind of reinforce the fact that being enabler means I'm helping all kinds of people. So all these things can get done and everybody expects that it's going to happen. And then over time I get irritated because now it's an expectation and nobody's appreciative and all the things, if I.

Didn'T do it, nobody did. And. Yeah, and then you become a martyr.

Yeah.

And then when you feel like a martyr, then you start to shame yourself and then you get angry and then you pop off on somebody and feel guilty about it. And then like, where can I overcompensate and self abandon and help somebody over here to not feel the shame and the cycle?

So you've been a fly on my wall for the last decade.

And that's the thing I want to say to all my beautiful enneagram twos is you guys come by it very innocently. It's a sneaky thing, right? Obviously, like, this drive for significance is important, you guys. Like, significance is an important human need. Tony Robbins says it all the time, so it must be true, right? Like, significance is beautiful because it's what relationships are like. We matter, Right? But for some reason, twos believe the only way they matter is if they do for others. Although that's your gift. It really, really is. You have the ability to give but if you're doing it from a place of fear, insecurity, unworthiness, shame, guilt, ego, or judgment, you're going to screw yourself every time. And you're actually not helping anyone.

And it's really hard for a 2 to sit by and watch somebody get mad at you for saying no and also watch somebody make mistakes that, you know, you actually could help. But let's be real. I mean, you and I both have a few decades under our belt, right?

Yep.

That some of the greatest learning we've ever done was on the heel of some of our bigger mistakes that had to happen. Yeah. So, two, you need to understand that you're actually helping them by holding space but letting them fall on their face. Sometimes that's the best helping you can do, right?

I know. And like I said, like.

You, when we hear about this stuff, sometimes, like, okay, I gotta not ever do that. You're always gonna. That's your default. You're always gonna be more prone to that. It's just your blind spot, Right. It doesn't mean you didn't do the work enough. It doesn't mean that you have to attach any kind of judgment of yourself around it. It's kind of like driving a car. I don't care what kind of car you drive. It could be a Rolls Royce, it could be a Jetta. Both cars have a blind spot. You have to check. We don't judge it, right? So you're going to have this blind spot your whole life as A two. And it's okay. I have the same like. Like I can swoop in to be a superhero because that's what eights do. It's like, I want you all to know how strong and powerful I am. And I enable people, too, if I just swoop in sometimes, right? So that's my blind spot. I'm like, am I doing this for the Flex, or am I doing this actually because it's what's right.

Now, hearing you say what you said about.

You know, the enabling piece, and, I mean, I've. It almost feels selfish that. That my motivation would be to do things so that I get something back. That's like a really hard thing for me to process. I know, because I've always looked at it as my value is the fact that I can bring these things to the table and that I can do these things without asking for anything back. And my responsibility is to make the world better than it was before I got here.

Right.

So every skill I have, I have to share and I have to give it away and I can't expect anything back from it.

But now thinking that I'm doing that.

For validation just makes me feel like I'm selfish.

You're not. Like I said, you come by it innocently. Same thing with me. Like when I had the harsh realization that I am. I mean, you've even said it. I'm very strong, I'm very powerful. And that is my gift as an eight. And there have been times I've used that in a manipulative way. Innocently. Like I came by it innocently. And when I had that realization, I was like, oh my God, I was self absorbed. It was about my ego. I didn't naturally do it maybe to. To actually help them. It was like because I was feeling vulnerable over here and I needed a dopamine hit of strength. Again. We come by it innocently and so does an enneagram too. Now that is your superpower. You do all those things. What matters is the come from.

Right?

Right. Like if you do that and have no expectation, when it's not thanked, acknowledged, reciprocated, you don't give a shit. And it's like I did good work today, but if there's that tinge of ugh, they don't even frickin appreciate it or God, if I didn't do this, nobody would. Right? That's the come from. That is manipulation. Right. And meeting yourself with shame won't help. Meeting yourself with compassion will. Of course you would. And especially if you're feeling what I notice in myself, and this goes for all Enneagram types, is like, you know, this is the discernment. Is this coming from the fear, insecurity, unworthiness and guilt, ego or judgment? Or is this coming from love, compassion, empathy, service, grace? Right? Is when that, when you meet it and you recognize it's the unhealthier part. Go back to where in your life specifically maybe you're feeling the weakness because we'll try to overcompensate somewhere else. So when I'm feeling extra vulnerable and weak somewhere else, oh you bet your ass. I'm going to be seeking places I can put my superhero cape on. And I have to be very, very mindful to not try to equal out the scale. Because I'm feeling so vulnerable over here for an enneagram too. If you're not feeling loved and appreciated in an area of your life, like I've seen it a lot. Like if your personal relationships are struggling right now, all of a sudden A2 can become a workaholic. Or vice versa. If you're not feeling loved or appreciated in your job, you might be a superhero mother or a superhero spouse. Right. And this is for all Enneagram types is our biggest fear. If we're feeling that being exposed or we're gonna try and balance it out somewhere. And so having extra awareness, it doesn't mean that you're manipulative. It's just like, okay. And I want you to look at yourself as though you're like you're a four year old child. I think you've heard me say that before. It's like, yeah. Every time I want to judge it without. When I catch myself in the flex or the ego.

Right.

I imagine what I would say to the four year old version of me or a four year old child that's innocent and just trying to survive. Because that's what's happening. We're in survival mode. Right. And we wouldn't annihilate them with our thoughts or our words or our behaviors. We would pull that child up on our lap and say, I understand this is scary and I've got.

So true.

Right?

Yeah.

So, yeah, shame, anger, judgment, when we catch ourselves in that absolutely will keep the cycle going. Compassion and empathy and grace will allow us to see it, acknowledge it and break the cycle. Yeah. Does that answer your question on that one?

Yeah, it does. And actually it's a great lead into my next question, which is about relationships. So when I think about. Well, I guess what I'm curious about is as a two, how. How do twos typically interact with relationships? Right. Personally, professionally, and what. What can I do to improve those interactions so I don't end up going into one of those.

Yeah.

Rabbit holes that I do.

Pretty much. We're going to rinse and repeat a little bit what I just said. Because your spiritual gift is you intuitively know without words being spoken what people in situations need, like hallelujah. And when you're in relationship of any sort, whether it's a romantic partnership, it's a, you know, a parenting relationship, a friendship, a business colleague, like that is your spiritual gift. Again, before you default into the doing and to the serving or helping, you know, ask yourself this question with compassion, like, am I doing this to earn their love and appreciation or am I doing this because I really want to and I know it's in their best interest.

And again, meet yourself with compassion if it's the other, because there's a tish. I'm telling you right now, there's so much. I catch myself a lot of times a day in, like, I want to do it for the Flex. So that's the first thing. And then once we do that, we're not bringing our true authentic self to any relationship if we're doing it from those places. And so we're setting our relationships up on a foundation that isn't actually solid and it's unsustainable because it isn't our authentic self. It's. It's to earn something or to prove something or to get something. That's. No matter how much of a superhero you are, that's not sustainable. And even when it's not sustainable, even if you could, resentment will foul, fool, follow, and resentment will destroy any good relationship. Yeah. So using your words, Enneagram, Twos, like, like I said earlier, like, your spiritual gift is understanding and knowing what situations and people need and it calls for without words being said. Where you guys get into a lot of trouble is you don't understand why the other eight types don't have that spiritual gift. And so you have these expectations. Well, if they loved me, they would know what I need. And I'm going to tell you right now, we do not. We want to support you, we want to help you, but it's going to require you using your words. I have different superhero, like superhero strategies. It isn't that. And it's not because I don't care. So twos, because that's your way to, you know, find your significance in the world. You assume that most of us have that same ability and we don't.

Yeah.

And like, you never judge any of us for not asking for what we need or even asking for what we need. You never judge any of us. In fact, you love when we ask you what we need.

Oh, absolutely. That gives me purpose. I know what to go do now.

But you judge yourself when you have to use your words.

Yeah, I don't. I don't like to ask. I don't. I don't want to have to tell anybody. I. I do. You're. You're spot on. I want you to just know. Because if you knew, that's because you paid attention or you knew me or you cared or something.

Oh, God, no. Where I can help you is I can see things. Danger, and I can see things that you don't. And I can help you bypass a really shitty up situation. I am not intuitively blessed with knowing what your emotional needs always are. Well, I do now because I know the Enneagram and I'm. I make it. I make it priority for me. But in day to day life, unless I'm working at it, like no. And it isn't a. It isn't a reflection of how much I care about somebody. And you guys take it as that because it is. The way that you show and express love is by intuitively knowing, without words being spoken. You judge us or you judge yourself as being unlovable. Because if we did love you and care about you and appreciate you, we wouldn't have to ask you, we would just know. But that's not the truth. And we want to support you.

We want to. So with my son knowing this about him, it broke my heart that he would ever doubt for a second that I didn't care or pay attention enough to him. I mean, I birthed him for crying out loud. But he's a social enneagram too, as well. Right? And. And I said to him, I will never have this spiritual gift. Even if I work on it, it won't be my natural go to. I want to support you more than anybody in this world. And I need you to use your words. And it's going to feel really painful for you at first.

So uncomfortable. Just hearing you say that is so uncomfortable.

And just like building any muscle, the more you get used to it, like that's where boundaries are laid and the more that you get better, especially with people that you know are safe and have your best interest at heart. That absolutely mean what they say. When I say I want to support you, I need you to use your words and I will back it up. Yeah, it will give you courage and confidence to use your words when it comes to saying no when it comes to laying a boundary. And in fact, you'll feel more confident and you'll be walking a little bit taller. At first it will absolutely be uncomfortable. But the more you practice using words in this scenario, the easier it will get when it comes time to say no to something else.

You know, I think that, you know, something you had just said too, as far as thinking that somebody really, like they're going to back it up, like they really do want to be part of whatever that process is. And I think that. I know this is common and this is just me, but over the years I kind of think that most of the people I surround myself with do need me and. And they would bail in a heartbeat if I wasn't available to do something.

Well, that's probably true. There's probably a lot of that. Because twos are most prone to narcissists. Because think about it, narcissists want to be the center of people's worlds. Twos love to facilitate that.

Absolutely.

Narcissists can't be a narcissist. And I, I, that word gets thrown around really loosely. So I'm very cautious and like, don't start calling people narciss. Narcissistic tendencies. Right. Like you, they can't do that without an enabler. Right, Right. And so here's the thing. Yeah, they may bail, but at least you know. Yeah, at least you'll know. And yeah, it might get really uncomfortable and really quiet for a while. And you just made room for miracles and you made room for abundant relationships that, that people actually want to support you. And that was a harsh realization my son also faced as he was building this muscles. Yeah. There were people that unless he was self abandoning and self sacrificing for whatever they needed, they were nowhere to be found.

Yep.

But he made room for really good quality people too. And the right people that yes, of course, like he can do what he does best and, but when it comes time for the rubber to meet the road and he needs support, those people are lined up for them. Yeah, but you have to make room for them because good quality people aren't going to wait in line with a bunch of yahoos surrounding you.

Yeah.

So this is kind of where you and I had the same thing. Like when I got sober and like I was going on this journey, pretty much everybody left.

Yeah.

Sucks and it's painful and I'm surrounded by warriors now.

That's amazing.

Yeah. So sometimes you have to make room for the, the high quality relationships, but they're not going to try and fit into space around people that aren't for you and doesn't make these people bad. Here's the deal. Like, as we grow ourselves, like twos have a hard time ending relationships or saying this part of the story is over unless something catastrophic happens.

That part of the story can be over without a crisis. It can mean that you've just turned the page and it's okay. And it doesn't make anybody bad or wrong or that you're a jerk or insensitive. It just means like, we've outgrown each other. And if you haven't read the poem reason, Season, Lifetime, just Google, put that in a Google bar. It's one of the greatest poems. And I think it's really important for an enneagram too, to hear like, some people come into our life for a reason, some for a season. Very, very few are lifetime people. But if we hold on to reason or season people. We miss a lifetime person from coming in.

Yeah. That's so fun. You were saying that and I was literally thinking of that. Like, I'm like, oh, I remember. I read this thing, it talked about seasons, like, spot on. But I never really thought that applied to me.

Yeah. Well, we can understand something you read. Yeah. We can understand on paper and. Oh, that's beautiful. But the actual practice of executing that is painful. It is. It does come with sometimes hurt feelings and sometimes misunderstanding, and all of that's okay. But for an enneagram too, you guys feel it deep. And that's what makes you amazing. Yeah. Where I'm like, okay, bye.

So give me one more chance. I could do something else. Hold on one second.

Yeah, like, I mean, I'm. You're. You're probably a few years younger than me, but.

I love you through that, by the way.

But no, I'm not. But we'll go with that.

Bob Seeger is like my all time favorite singer and, like, his song turn the Page, like, is like that. Just go listen to that after our interview and remembering that, like, turning the page is part of the story being over. And if we aren't willing, we don't get to the good stuff or to what's next, and we just stay stuck in this loop.

And.

And sometimes we want to hold on to something so bad because it does make us feel significant. Or in my case, I've stayed in ridiculous relationships because I was the superhero in it and oh, my gosh. But I was missing out on the very good things for me.

Yeah. Yeah.

So, all right, what's your next question? Does that help?

Okay. Yeah. No, absolutely. Yeah, it's.

Yeah, it's. It's hitting. I'd say my next question. Stressors. Right. So what's a common stressor for twos? And. And how do we deal with that? Because I think I know what triggers me, but I don't.

I just know that I'm really good at doing all the numbers. So. But, you know, like, what's a common stressor? And how do I. How do I learn to respond to that in a healthy way as opposed to a standard historical reactive way?

Yeah. So like an enneagram, too, when they're under stress, can look like an unhealthy enneagram. 8. Like, that's the stress number for the two. So when you start to feel spicy and salty. Tish. Come out.

Yeah.

You're in the eight zone. Right. And so usually. And we just use it as a compass not as a whipping stick or a judgment.

Sure.

Time to judge yourself. It's just a compass. Like, oh, I've entered the eight zone. This is what's happening. It's usually because you feel not loved and appreciated. You feel resentment because you know you have to use your words, all the things, or you're judging someone else for not being considerate. That's usually what happens. But usually when we're judging other people, we're really judging ourselves, right? So when you feel yourself going into the eight zone, ask yourself, okay, where do I not feel loved and appreciated? Because that's usually what's come. Because that's the biggest fear of the enneagram too. And you can be loved and appreciated without self abandonment. That's the, the tricky line for an enneagram too. Because you can justify why you help anybody because it's such a good thing to do, right? And in a lot of ways it is. But one of the other stressors that come with that is the over yesing and the over scheduling and the, well, if I have room on my calendar, I have to say yes.

No, no. Like you can say no. And if somebody says, well, why not? Because, you know, you're naturally the go to person. I remember when my son was starting to say no. Why? Because it's not going to work for me. But why? Because it's not going to work for me. And the reason it's not going to work for you is because you do have to leave room for miracles in your calendar. You have to. Otherwise you're going to get to the end of your life. And although there might be a lot of people who are grateful for all the things you did, you will feel like you didn't have anything left for you. And if you're coming, if you're helping from that place where you feel like nothing has been left for you, you're. You're helping for all the wrong reasons.

So.

You know, if you do recall, if you have looked at your blueprint, your growth number is the enneagram4. And this is kind of the target we're always aiming for. You'll never be there full time, right? Like, we just have to touch it. And for us, like, I know you're somebody who's into personal growth. Where I've met you is in a high growing environment. And to whom much is given, much is required. And with great reward comes the great responsibility, right? When I saw what my growth number was, I was like, oh, God. Because mine's the two.

Right? Like, not, not an easy go to. But for me to be the person that can do the work that I do today, I have to go there. I don't have to stay there very long, but I have to be able to touch. Compassion, empathy, vulnerability, connection. I have to get into intimate spaces with people, which is scary for somebody like me. For you, yours is the Enneagram 4. I mean, even the name of the Enneagram 4 is the complete opposite of what a 2 is. I mean, you go from the considerate helper to, like, the individualist. Like, how do I get significance if I'm individual? Well, that's actually where you will be the most authentic helper you can be. It's where you have filled up your cup, where you have asked yourself, what do I want to do? How can I serve myself today so that when I go out into the world, I know I'm just giving the best yeses.

So that's why you have to leave room for miracles in your calendar. This is also why Covid did a really good thing for Twos. It might have spiraled them, but the world. The circumstance took away your ability to go out and just serve the world. Because we were all in lockdown. Yep. And either you were completely freaking rattled by that and. Or you exhaled, probably for the first time in a long time because you didn't have.

Amazing.

Yeah, same for my son. Yeah. It was like he could finally say no, and it wasn't his fault.

Yeah. No. I mean, you are so spot on with that. I mean, I had a conversation just a couple weeks ago where I said I almost felt bad to say because Covid was such a horrific experience for so many people, but I really loved it. I was home with my kids and my husband, and I worked and I worked out, and I did all the things that made me feel like an amazing woman, and I wasn't pulled every direction. I wasn't driving 15 hours a day. I wasn't doing all of the things, and it was incredible. And coming out of that has been a struggle because I've really liked that happy place.

Well, the good news is you have the ability to maintain that, but it will require you not having the world tell you, tell everybody. No, but you'll have to use your voice now instead of the world dictating your no and yes. That is challenging for two. But I want you to remember, my son thrived in Covid, too. Like, he started playing music, he started writing. He was creative business ideas, individual hobbies that didn't involve other people. So he practiced that enough. It. Don't get me wrong, it's still hard for him to say no, but he, he holds on to how he felt during that time. And I want you to do the same thing that you don't have the world, you don't have to have the world shut down for you to be able to have a boundary.

But it's so much easier because somebody else sets the rules and I'm a rule follower. So it was really easy to fall in line.

So make your rules. Like, you know, we. We don't get our goals, we get our standards. And if your standard is self abandonment, you're going to get people who absolutely are all for you doing that.

Yeah.

Now if you want to actually have the standard of high quality people in your life, they will respect the hell out of your boundary.

Yeah.

So.

Yeah. That's so true.

So I want you to remember the COVID feeling. I thrived in Covid too. Too. Because I couldn't put on my superhero cape. I had to take care of myself.

Yeah.

And I have to remember this too. I struggle with this too, for different reasons, obviously, but it can look very similar.

And I'm on that journey because it's very easy to slip back into old patterns and old conditioning. And especially with fear. Right. Or insecurity, purity, or unworthiness or anything else that you have in your couple decades of life and conditioning. It's kind of like, you know, we can take care of ourself. And then the holidays come and we throw all the healthy habits out the window and then we try to implement them all in January. It's like we never did it before.

Right. So even if you do it a little bit every day and work on this boundary and saying no every day a little bit at a time, by the time the really big hard no has to come, you'll have built the muscle up.

But if you try to build that muscle when you need to put the hard no, it's gonna feel like a death.

Yeah. Oh, girl. For somebody who's never.

Thank you.

A podcast interview. Like I could interview all you all day. You're so great.

Thank you.

Because you're an amazing host.

I'll take that. So did your business that you're doing now happen during COVID Like did it kind of get birthed or the idea.

Actually, I started. I decided to go back to school and change careers right before COVID And then I was a full time student juggling all of the other world when Covid hit. So.

Yeah. But really it couldn't have come at a better time because of all the things I had to do locked in my house, it really helped.

So what do you do now and where can people find you? Because you're in the space and there's nobody better than an enneagram too, to help you in this journey.

Oh, that is so good to hear. So, yes, I'm a metabolic health nutritionist and I have a virtual healthcare practice called Simplified health and Nutrition. I do a lot of work on LinkedIn lately, so. And every. Every social media platform, you can just find me as Tisha Castillo and I'll. I'll be there.

Oh, my gosh. What can you tell one thing to the people listening that either are A2 or love or lead A2, that maybe they need to.

Oh, wow. I have to say that working with you to understand that being a two is actually pretty powerful. And it's okay to be motivated by your heart to get things done.

And that's just. Yeah, that's what I would say. Don't. As I'm working on not beating myself up for not being able to do more. It's okay to take care of me, put the oxygen on me first in the plane before my kids kind of thing, and it's okay to feel something. And using my words, which is so funny you say that because I'm actually. I mean, I love to write about everything else. So being able to use my words to express myself, I think that would be the one tip I would tell everybody to start working on.

You become so.

Thank you so much.

You become the ultimate helper. When you can do that, I promise you the best work that you'll ever do in the world and amongst us all will be when you use your words. So please, please, and it's not a weakness, please do. Oh, you are amazing. If you guys loved this episode, please share it. Please let us know if you are a two. I want to hear, like, where this hit. I know it did. And for those of you that love or lead twos, I know, like, my understanding of the two is why I do a lot of this work because I love one so much and I want to be the best for you as well. So. So if you love this, share it. If you want to be on the hotline, you can find me on Instagram, Tracy underscore, O' Malley or on my website, traceyomalley.com if you want to get your accurate typing, go get your blueprint now. Chances are you've been typed wrong, so stay tuned for another episode coming later. This week.

I'm so happy you enjoyed the lead with the Enneagram podcast.

Please help us spread the word about.

This show and the Enneagram by sharing.

It with a friend and leaving a.

Written Apple podcast review. If you have any follow up questions.

To this episode, you can DM me.

On Instagram at traceyomalley. You can also find additional resources on my website@traceeomalley.com I'm so excited to lead you into the next level of your life.