EP403: Revealing the Business Soul: Authenticity, Service, and Success with Jason Lew

I know if you're like me, showing up on social media and feeding the content monster and playing this entrepreneur game is a bit grueling and sometimes we settle for the quick hits and the quick wins and the quick cash even and forget that this whole entrepreneur thing is a long game. And today's conversation is probably one of the most important that if you feel like you're ready to quit entrepreneurship or you've hit the wal, I bring on my very very good friend Jason Liu who is a business consultant coach. He is Yoda and such a good integrity filled person. I am so excited for you guys to listen into this very candid conversation on showing up as an entrepreneur and who we are being in order to create transformation and change and the life that we've always desired. Definitely you are going to love this. Buckle up, go for a walk, take a long drive and listen in as Jason and I dive into all things entrepreneurship and playing the long game.

Okay, I know you may have heard about the Enneagram or someone told you you need to know all the about it. So here you are. But what the hell do you do with it? Great news. You are in the right place. Lead with the Enneagram is the show where you will actually learn how to use this incredible growth tool and apply it in all areas of your life, personally and professionally. Hi, I'm Tracy and to be honest with you, I was a skeptic of the Enneagram before I started to actually integrate it into my life. In fact, in true enneagram 8 style, I told my therapist to f off when she wanted me to dive into it well over a decade ago. Now that I have more than a decade of experience using the Enneagram and working on myself in my family with those closest to me, building my own bulletproof leadership, sales teams with one on one clients, couples, leading workshops for top Fortune 100 executives, and speaking to large audiences all across the globe about this powerful tool. I've got the proof and deep understanding of how to help you implement this into your life instead of it just being some fun thing you heard about. The Enneagram can be a complex model, but with me as your guide, I will show you how to first lead yourself in a powerful, effective and compassionate way and then help you lead others that way in your life as well. This podcast will have powerful conversations with guests, live typing sessions, as well as solo episodes of breaking down dynamics of the Enneagram and how they impact your life, career and relationships. So now let's dive in.

Hey. Hey. Welcome Back to another episode of Lead with the Enneagram. And we're not even going to talk about Enneagram much today, if at all, because I get to talk to one of my favorite people. And you guys know I don't bring anyone on that I don't love, trust, respect, admire, believe in. And Jason Liu, who I'm bringing you today, is legit one of my favorite people. We've known each other for close to a decade. And I was sitting here, we were catching up a little bit and just having a good chat and I was like, how do I want to talk about our relationship? And kind of like your wisdom and your expertise and what we're going to talk about today is so ironic because, funny thing, we shared a stage in front of, gosh, close to 20,000 people about eight years ago. Ironically, talking about social media and this social presence like that was kind of what we were slated to be experts on, on. And not only did we kill it, we did. We killed it up there. But what's funny about that is, is we're probably the two least likely to show up on social media unless we're forced to.

And I think it's funny because back eight years ago when we delivered that beautiful, beautiful value driven service heart, not your typical social media bullshit.

We really were able to show people how to show up online authentically back eight years ago. The game has since changed and you and I both have had to figure out ways to kind of build businesses that if we didn't feel like showing up online, we didn't have to and, and how to play the long game here. So, you guys, I have Jason Liu. He's a business consultant, strategist, one of the smartest freaking people I know. Creative brain, creative business, creative marketing, great human, amazing father and husband. Hi, Jason. I'm glad you're here.

Hi, Tracy. It's a pleasure to be here. More than anything, I'm just grateful that we get to catch up and talk shop. And it's been a really long time, but I so value the time that we've spent together. Like, genuinely, the amount of time we've actually spent in rooms together is probably tiny. But the relationship and the BOND over those 10 years, like, my wife still asked me, she's like, how's Tracy? She's like, she's like, how are the two angels that looked out for you on stage when you guys did that thing? And I was like, they're great, they're doing well. So, yeah.

So let's talk about it. You know, in the world of business and leadership, content creation, like, I like even saying content, like, gives me hives, like, I just want to vomit. But I also understand, like, it's part of it, right? In a way that people buy today and, and how we are selling social media is part of it, right? What, where did your relationship start to go sideways with social media? Because you've been in this game long before it was like the cool thing to do. Like, well over, like 15 years you've been in the digital online space selling, right?

I personally think that if I, if I, no one ever knew who I was and I just had enough to sustain myself and I got to work with great people, that would be my dream life. Like, I didn't care if anyone didn't. I have no desire for anyone to actually know me. So I might say that it was always downhill for me. Like there was maybe never a high point of social for me. But I will say that there was a point in time where.

It became cool to figure out what the algorithm was doing and how to hack the algorithm. And I think that when content shifted away from what is intuitively coming through to me, what is the message I want to get out to people? What do I genuinely care about? And now I'm thinking for what's going to get the best looks, the best hits, the most visibility, and the fast way to get my message out there, it begins to change what you create. And art is no longer for you or the people that you genuinely care about. It starts being for what is popular and what is going to get consumed. And I think for a lot of us, it's a really hard line to toggle because there's a level of validation that comes with people liking it, people engaging with it and being popular. Yet at the same time, I find it really interesting. I have clients that will go out there and get thousands or hundreds of thousands of views on something and not care about it, yet they can do a post they genuinely love, that gets zero likes, that, that lights them up. And I think that this a really tough line to balance, especially when you're thinking about how does it convert, how does it turn into clients, how does it turn into sales. So it's difficult.

It is difficult. And you know, when you're driven by the metrics, the vanity metrics or things like that, it can be this slippery slope of, you know, shame hits and adrenaline rushes and all the things. And I was sitting here thinking about.

You know, just this whole game that we have to play with social media because I mean, the fact is, is a lot of times even companies that want to hire you, they will check out your social media or they'll check out, you know, some of this other stuff. How can somebody that is listening right now that knows they got to play the game, but it's not necessarily, there's somebody like me who really doesn't necessarily want to, but they need clients, they need to convert something. What do they do? What's like one of the first things they have to ask themselves, like, do I play the fricking game or do I figure out a different way?

So I think there's two. Let's back up. I think there's two important frameworks here to understand. So I had a mentor of mine that said, in every business there are always three things you're solving for. You're solving for the business, you're solving for the consumer, and you're solving for yourself. And each are intertwined with one another because they're all dependent on working. Yet there's an order and sequence that most of us put this in. Most of us either put the business first or the consumer first, flop those. And at some point in time we worry about ourselves. And I really think that as entrepreneurs or as solopreneurs that are building businesses around our personal gifts, talents and abilities, the most important person in that equation is you. Because ultimately, if we don't love the work that we do, if the work doesn't light us up, if the problems that we are choosing don't fuel us to do something, like if you can't love the crappy part of the work, at some point in time, we all eventually burn out. And so there's an end point to all of it. I think that if you're doing it from a sustainable standpoint, where you want long term business like you want a business that at least is three, five years or a decade long, you have to solve for the person first. We all have to solve for what do we like, what are our mediums? What do we care about? What are our belief systems? What are the things that are meaningful to us? Then we get to solve for the actual business that we run, and then we get to solve for the consumer. So from a practical standpoint, I think that going back to the original question, which is what do we do about social? We have to find mediums that are sustainable to us. If you hate writing, don't write, speak, talk, I don't know, Vlog it, do you, whatever it is, right? If you like writing, do Twitter or X Or whatever the heck it is now, right? Like find, find something that you genuinely is going to keep you in the game and keep you engaged. And I think a lot of people get the wrong idea about business, that there is one right way or someone has the right formula or the exact roadmap to go do this thing. The answer is no. There's multiple ways to be resourceful to solve the same problem. So solve, you solve the business and, and finally then goes to all the consumer.

Do you think most people have it backwards where they are like 100%? Okay, let's talk about that. Why do you think that is?

If I really think about it, I think it's a question of am I worthy enough, am I of value enough to be able to serve that type of customer or client yet? Maybe this is not even the right question, but a lot of people have the question of like what certification, what magic wand has to get waived in order for me able to serve that type of person and who's going to pay me without certification or without years of knowledge to go solve this thing.

So I think that definitely becomes a challenge when it comes to. Yeah. Where it all comes from. Where, where are the self worth part comes from.

Where do you feel like? Because you and I, you know, we've been in this game a long, long time and you know, sometimes it is about the adrenaline rush and the next hit, right. And the next sell and the next thing you know, this is back. But when did you realize that like, oh, I gotta figure out who I am because all these, this low hanging fruit or the short game or the quick hits and the dopamine rush and the quick sell and the quick cash, although that was great and served a role. When did you recognize like, oh shit, like I haven't been playing the long game and now I'm in a little pickle and it doesn't feel good because I think that's where a lot of people are at right now, especially today. It's like they've been chasing the shiny object, chasing the cash, chasing the likes and they've woken up and they don't know who the hell they are or what to do about it.

So I think it's happened multiple times in my entrepreneurial career. Like, yeah, I've been doing this for almost two decades. Not necessarily the coaching part of it, but I've been in this space for quite some time. And I think the biggest lessons are when like you get knocked on your ass, when you get knocked out and you got to figure out and there's only to look into the mirror and say, all right, how do I be better and how do I show up differently? It came. The most recent one that I remember was probably the end of 2021, 2022. I for something had changed in. So my biggest client walked away. Something changed in their business. They decided to go a different direction, which really when I was counting on a certain amount of income coming in. And I learned this lesson the hard way. If more than 20% of your income comes from one client, you are in trouble. So I learned that the hard way. At that same time, our ad accounts on Facebook and Instagram got shut down for doing exactly what we've been doing for two years previously. And probably the hardest part was our organic reach and what we've been doing in terms of launch strategy and social. We saw a rapid decline and within about 45 days the question was, where's the next sale coming from? And when I've got a wife and a daughter, it's a really scary proposition to look across the dinner table and say I don't know where my next sales coming from. And it was a really big wake up call to kind of take inventory of my business and say I'd skate it by primarily on people liking me, people referring me. And when those minor lead sources dried up, my business was in trouble. And that was a terrifying prospect. But in a lot of ways a good wake up call to say, hey, what can I do differently.

Yeah, I've experienced that recently. I joke, I'm like, God gets my attention in my body, in my bank account and like, it's where I find the willingness to surrender. And, and although like, like you, like I have built a bit very strong business on reputation and credibility and you know, all of the things that you, what's why I love you so much. Like you're the most integrity filled person I know. Like, seriously, I freaking love you. And you know, when we stop playing the game or the game changes and, and we aren't positioned in a way to play the game, it does get your attention. And I know there's people listening right now that maybe they're in that spot. We're in a crazy ass year. We're starting in 2024. It's only going to get nuttier. And I'm sure games will change left and right. But when you're in that moment and you're on your knees basically, like and you're looking at the beautiful women in your life, you know, and you're saying I don't know what I'm going to do. What's the first thing you do to dig out of that? Maybe shame. I don't know if you've dealt with the shame or the anxiety or the fear or the anger. Probably a little bit of all three. Right.

It's a great question.

I always remember Tony Robbins saying, the quality of your life is determined by the quality of question you ask yourself.

Yeah.

And I was someone that was probably still struggle with, but someone that was really bad with going through these spirals. Right. When things got bad, I would spiral. And I think in entrepreneurship more than anything, yes, the game is Runway, but it's the ability to stay engaged through difficult times. And so being able to a.

Acknowledge that I'm upset, acknowledge that I'm pissed, acknowledge the fact that I'm anxious about how I'm going to take care of my family, I think is the first thing. Like, yes, I'm pissed at my circumstances. Yes, I'm pissed at myself. Yes, I can't believe this is happening to me again. And yes, I was looking for a change, but I wasn't looking for this hard of a lesson. I just wish didn't show up this way for me.

Right.

And I think the question gets to shift eventually to, great. So how is this serving me right? What is the lesson and how is this perfect for me?

Right.

I think often.

Whether you're God, source, universe, whatever your belief system is, we ask for things, we ask for this guidance, we ask for this nudge. And I think often we just don't like the way it's wrapped up and packaged for us.

For sure.

Yeah. God, universe sources like, that's cute. Hold my beer like, yeah, hey, thanks.

I didn't need to get smacked upside the head this hard. I would have preferred a gentle nudge like, hey, maybe you could do this. But what I find, maybe like you too, is that unless it's a really hard smack, it doesn't catch my attention.

And so I think in a lot of ways, the first thing is to acknowledge that and can you have the mindset of how is this working for me? Great. It's going to give me the opportunity to get out of my comfort zone. That's going to give me an opportunity to look at my situations differently. It's going to allow me to be resourceful right now. It's going to get me out of this place of feeling comfortable. And honestly, I know that when I am uncomfortable, ultimately that my biggest growth happens. So can I be in gratitude for this really hard smack upside the head.

So what does a spiral look like for you? Because I know, like, I know what that might look like for me. What does a spiral look like for you? Like, let's put words to this and maybe a scene. And how long does that happen before all of a sudden you're like, okay, this is working for me. Because in theory, that' really cute. And I know that when people say that when I'm in the middle of it, I'm like. And I say it to people, too. So it's never easy to get to that when it's happening to you or for you. Right. So what does a spiral look like? And how long does that take before you're like, this is my greatest good.

So, yeah, keep. You keep digging in if this is. If it's not direct enough. But I will say that this shift in 2021, I luckily had the tools to work with to be able to shift it and move it quickly, because I need it to. But I will also say that in my previous careers where you've known me, I would sit and wallow in it, because I think from a conscious standpoint, now I'm aware that me being able to procrastinate in these situations, when I always got something for meaning, people say, jason, well, what are you getting? You're losing money right now. Well, what do you get? Well, in that situation, in the past, if I didn't have to put myself out there, if I didn't have to show myself, then I couldn't be rejected, then my idea wasn't really real. So I could kind of blame it. Like, I never really gave it a shot. Like, there are so many things I could brush off because I got to sit and stay in it. And I'm being honest when I say that I used to sit in my shit for years until it got so bad that there was no choice but to move. And I will say that I was genuinely addicted to that movement of the pain is so big that I have to be Superman, Superwoman, whatever you want to call it, to go save my family and go take care of things. And I loved that feeling because that's how it created success. The first time someone told me, you can't do it, Jason, I was like, fuck you. I can go do this thing. And I love proving people wrong. It's a very powerful way to move, but it's a very destructive way to move.

Yeah, same. And I want to talk about this because most entrepreneurs that I love, we play that game where we know how to perform and make shit happen when our back's up against the wall. And so we sometimes consciously, sometimes subconsciously sabotage our own shit because we don't know how to grow without chaos or drama. It's kind of like a joke. Like, John Mayer only knows how to write really good music when he's blowing up relationships, and that's why he's got so many, like, lady friends. But, like, you and I are no different than that. In, like, I. I know how to blow up my life in a way that it's, like, rising like the phoenix, and it's a great story. And. Oh, my God. The overcomer. The comeback story. Right. Like, we're the kings and queens of the comeback.

Yeah.

And although we have the receipts to show that that has worked out okay for us, we have left a lot of wreckage behind and hurt and scared a lot of people that we love and care about in that kind of method of operation. So my question is this. Have you stopped doing that, and have you learned how to grow yourself and your business without the dramatics of, like, waiting till the 11th hour to, like, make shit happen? Yeah, it's so painful to do it without chaos.

It's the hardest thing. It's kind of like. I equate it to being like. If you're someone that drinks coffee, like, you're used to the caffeine hitting you in the morning, right? There's the hit, and you go, yep. And it's kind of like doing it without any of it. No stimulant, no nothing, no adrenaline. How do you do it?

And such a good analogy.

I would only be able to do it because I know the consequences of doing it multiple times. It's like burning your hand on the stove multiple times and saying, okay, I gotta find another way to cook my food without burning my hands. And that's essentially what it's become for me here. Because when I am in that fight or flight, yes, it allows me to have the will to overcome and will my way through very difficult situations. But the crash on the other side of it, both to myself, how I show up as a partner, father, friend, colleague, I'm the worst at all those things. And so. But I will say, if I didn't know the pain of that, I wouldn't want to change.

Yeah, true.

So first is the acknowledgement of it, I think. Second is recognizing that every goal has a frequency and consciousness to it. And for me, what I was always hoping for was I was like, I'm gonna make X amount of dollars per year. I'm Gonna have this type of business, and I'm gonna do this thing, and I'm like, please drop this thing down for me. I'm ready to receive it. Drop it down.

I'm gonna manifest this shit.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm gonna watch the Secret a couple times, I'm gonna do some breath work, and this thing's gonna drop into my lap. And the truth is, our goals have a frequency. We vibrate at a certain frequency. We expect the thing. You can't see my hands right now because you're on a podcast to drop down to us. And the truth is we need to find a way to raise the frequency of ourselves and our consciousness up to the level of the goal that we're looking to manifest out there.

And so I call this drop right there. That is everything. Okay, Continue. Sorry to interrupt you.

No, no, no. So I call this what is our way of being. Right? So the. A lot of people have already heard this, right? Most of us want a business where we have do be. What do I have to do? Like, I first have the instructions. I first know how to build the business. This is the have part of it. Then I'm going to do those things, and then I should be successful. Right? That is typically have, do be. That's how we run everything. I think the more you start building a business off your unique skills, the more it flips to what is the b, what is then the do, and then what is the half? Because the old way of operation is mild operation. I watched my entire family burn through money, fight with each other. So I always felt like money breaks families. It's a ridiculous belief, by the way, but that was my inherent growing up belief.

Oh, Jason. I have the subconscious belief that the more money I make, the more abusive I am, because that's what I witness. I know logically from the neck up that's not true, but like, yes, at a cellular level, there's part of my fight or flight nervous system that believes that. So that's very real. Even though we can understand it cognitively, that's crazy.

So every time I made money, I pushed it out and pushed more of it out. Like, if I made more, I had more debt. If I. If I. I could make more again, I'd make more debt, and I would never be able to actually hold onto money. It would just come in and go out, come in and go out, come in and go out. Because my belief was I was acting from the place of money breaks families. And if family's the most important thing to me, I pushed it all away. And so the question then became, and in this example, what is the beingness of someone that truly believes that money brings families closer together, that it improves relationships? Because again, we go back to the idea of the quality of question we ask determines the quality of our life.

Yes.

If my belief here is, and my beingness of what I am embodying is.

The money that I make allows me to be a better partner, a better father, allows me to do, I don't know, take my family on a vacation, buy a nicer dinner, sit down and be more present with my family because I don't have to spend so much time on my business, then my beingness of that way I act is going to be different. The blueprint is different. And so part of what I'm getting to here is when I'm talking about spirals, when I'm talking about how do I get myself out of this, the first thing I have to ask is, who am I being? And maybe the best example of this was 2020. Grandmother was 101 and she decided that she was going to stop eating 101. Beautiful Life, by the way. But she said, I'm done, I'm out. I'm checking out like Covid hit. I'm good, I'm out.

Peace out, everyone.

Peace out. Yeah, this is a good time to go. I don't need to deal with this. She's like, peace out. And so old me would want to be like, does she have dementia? Did she forget how to swallow? We have to get her to the hospital. Let's fix, fix, fix, fix, fix. And I was deep in this practice. And I'm not saying that watching someone depart from this world isn't a sad thing, but my way of being was. What does this look like from a place of gratitude? And so what could have been a very frenetic week turned into. How cool is it that she gets to decide how she wants to depart? How amazing is it that all of our family, who hasn't seen each other for the entire year because the world got shut down, gets to all hang out together. And more importantly, that we all get to come and actually say the words that we've wanted to say to her.

Yep.

And so it could have been a very frenetic experience in my old way of being turned into a really beautiful send off for this amazing soul. And so I think the same thing gets to happen in our business is you can come in from the frenetic. I got to change it. I got to Shift it. I got to do these things. But I think the first question always is, okay, if I think about this goal and the frequency that at which it is at, and if I imagine myself already accomplishing that thing, there's a version of me that's probably really in my own self worth, that really values myself, that has a level of self confidence. And the question now is, even from this place where I don't have money, where I don't have resources, where I feel like I don't have time, how can I embody that way of being?

Because if I have those things and.

How do you when, like, seriously, like, we can understand this, we can read the books, we can listen to this podcast. And when shit's hitting the fan, where do you gain the courage and the grit to embody it? I know I had to do it a couple times in my life, but it's like, how do you put words to that for somebody that maybe is in that right now? And you're really great with words, so I'm sure you'll have a beautiful way to explain it.

Way to put me on the spot here, Tracy.

You're so good. You're that good.

I think that there's a question here of.

I think it's really interesting when I'm in. So I think the question often I ask myself, is this coming from a place of scarcity or is this coming from a place of abundance? And abundance doesn't always mean, by the way, spending money or spending more time or giving outside of yourself. The abundant decision might be saying no. The abundant decision might be that I don't have to have something additional. But what I mean by that question is.

If you build in business, I think we all live in some sort of a distorted reality. Like you actually have to believe in yourself that there is something that is going to be created from nothing. And I think there's something to be said about invisible progress that most people don't see. I agree there are days where I get my. But hand it to me, I get rejected, I get turned down, opportunities close on me. And most people will say because I don't have the proof of people liking me, people giving me adulation and applause that I failed today. And I think that if I'm really coming from a I've already accomplished these things.

Then I get to look at this as.

You know what? I did something today that was uncomfortable, that tomorrow is going to be less uncomfortable for me. So I'm proud of myself for getting the reps in. And I Think that is a very difficult thing to do when you're looking at your bank account saying, the proof says I'm not successful, but the time and the money and the resources, the fact that I can't afford this thing for my family right now says I'm a failure right now. And I think that most of us, this wasn't our topic. Most of us think about self confidence, self worth, as when people say nice things or my bank account is up, my confidence is up. And when people say bad things, my bank account's down, then I'm down. And the thing I always like to challenge people is, you're kind of screwed. Because when we need our confidence the most is when our bank account's low and when people aren't saying nice things about us.

Right.

So my pushback to everyone is what if self confidence, self worth is a closed system, meaning when people say nice things about you, it actually isn't about you, it's about them. And when people say bad things about you, it's not about you, it's about them. So then the question is, where does self confidence come from? And that comes from something that you have to figure out how to give yourself that. I can be proud of the step I took. Like, I have this conversation with it all the time. It's great when mom and dad praise you, or your teacher praises you, or you get adulation from your peers because you did something good at school.

And I think that's great and I want you to feel that. And also I want to teach you how to figure out how to feel yourself from the inside out.

Yeah.

Can you be proud that you spoke up in class, even if it wasn't popular? Can you be proud for doing the kind thing to someone else? Not when someone's looking or gives you the adulation or applause, but when you do something because you know it's the right thing to go do.

And I think in entrepreneurship, no one's coming to save you. No one's coming to say the nice thing about you. You can hire a coach, you can be a part of a mastermind, you can do all those things. Sure, some of them will say nice things to you. I say nice things to the people I work with most of the time. And also.

There'S a certain grit and self sustainability that we, I think, all get to figure out how to give ourselves. And the first indication is if you're looking for it outside yourself, if you're looking for the likes, the comments outside of yourself, it's not a bad Thing. It's not a judgment, but it's an indicator that we need to figure out how to give it to yourself. And the last thing I'll say is when we're in those spots where things are the worst and the toughest, the self love and the self care and acknowledgement of I did something hard today, I think is where I get to. That's my foundation of getting myself out of being in a difficult spot.

I would agree with you. Those are some of my best days because like, full transparency, you guys. Jason and I had this very vulnerable conversation about two weeks ago and I was feeling like, oh, like very weak and scared and all the things. And we got on this call and I was updating him that the things I'm most proud of were not anything that anybody has seen that hasn't made me a dollar yet. But it was doing the scary thing. So I love that advice. I got this intuitive hit because I think we should talk about this.

Discerning when it's time to stay in the game versus cut our losses. And maybe this isn't what we're supposed to be doing. And I think it also goes back into kind of what we've been talking about this being and who are we being. And I think a lot of times people start entrepreneurship or a business because it's what the cool kids are doing or it's like the status symbol or we like the idea of that lifestyle, but we don't necessarily what it takes to kind of be in that grind every single day. How do you guide people or yourself even to discern whether, like, I'm not going to quit before the miracles happen or maybe this is not what I should be doing.

I think it's a question that is always tested. I think it's a much like any great relationship, like you get to choose to be in this relationship every single day. It's not a I love you and I married you and therefore it has to be forever. It is a wake up and I choose you every day. And I think that entrepreneurship is very much a similar decision. I think it's a lot easier to be victim to circumstances, victim to the algorithm, victim to people didn't buy from me. Their fault, it's not my fault. But when you really look at the responsibility side of it is.

I had a conversation with someone the other day who is new to entrepreneurship. She spent a year in it. She had a career as a lawyer before. And she was like, Jason, you really triggered me when you asked me if I really wanted to Be an entrepreneur. And I said.

I ask it lovingly, because I think it's a choice that we get to be in this space and you get to choose whether you want these problems or not.

Right.

If you can't love being in the problems, if there's not something in the problems that light you up, don't do this. Because the money, the time, the things that you see on Instagram are few and far between. Like the moments where life is blissful and you're sitting on the boat with the champagne with your partner and your, like, not care in the world that happens. Few and far between. Like, if that's what you're here for, guess what? Go do something else. There are a million and one things that you can go do from 9 to 5 or 9 to 8 that you can shut off and then eventually have those moments and those respites to go do that thing. If you don't love being in the grit and the I say being in the foxhole of it. Like, for me, there are a lot of things I don't enjoy doing in this marketing is one of them. Showing up in front of people is one of them. I don't want to be in front of large groups. Like, I don't care if anyone didn't know who I was. Why do I care about this? Because I'm doing this because in the pockets and moments, I get to have direct, close, intimate conversations with people or I get to ask them about their life, help them see something a little bit differently, and hopefully help their business in some way, shape, or form. It lights me the fuck up. Like, that's what I care about. If that's what I got to do for the rest of my life, that is what I want to do. And if I didn't pursue that, I would literally regret that I was given these gifts and I didn't use them. That'd be my biggest regret from a career standpoint. And so for me, there's no other. I believe there's no other option for me. And I think the same is true for you. Right?

100%.

So.

So I have to fall in love with foxhole moments that I hate so much.

Yes.

Somehow.

Yes. Yeah. Kobe Bryant says you got to fall in love with the actual work in the gym. Like, if you love the bright lights and the moments where you get to take the last shot, get the heck out of here.

Exactly. Exactly.

If you don't love the grind of it, at least a moment of it, because that work fuels me to do all the difficult Things I have to go do same. Like if I. And I know that if I don't get to have these intimate conversations where I get to really get into people's lives and belief systems and everything else, that this wouldn't be worth it.

But I need. So for everyone that's questioning this, is there the piece. Can you fall in love with the work genuinely? Not from a willpower, but it genuinely.

Like, I get more energy, kind of like, yeah, I'll do it. Yeah.

No, like quit then quit now. Genuinely, like, yeah, go pursue and go find the. Yeah, like you tried it. Great. More power to you. And now go find the thing that really does light you up. And for some people, working inside of someone else's business sometimes is better for them.

Totally.

That's not a, that's not a bad thing either.

Not at all. Not at all. So for those that are staying in the game, you know, which is not.

Me, I'm out, by the way. No, I'm just kidding.

What'd you say? No. Yes, you're in it. I quit.

I'm out.

No. Yeah, here we go. Big announcement.

So I know those that are listening and have decided to stay in the game and they're falling in love with all the, the shitty parts of this journey because it isn't all like, you know, the boats.

You make this sound so fun, Tracy.

Well, you know what, I'm a straight shooter too. Like, I'm like, you know what? I like that part. But there's a lot more days that are harder than our, like the fanfare. So we're going to keep it real around here like we always have. But that being said, like gaining clients, especially in a service based business or, you know, any of these things, especially now, it's not like it was when you and I started this game over a decade ago. And for those of us that maybe don't want to play the algorithm game or, you know, don't want a content calendar or. God, I get hives just thinking about it. How are you getting more clients without doing all of that? Because most people don't know your name. And I, and I love that. Like, I'm obsessed with that. Like, I love when nobody knows who I am. So I get that. But it, it has to convert, you know, you still have to convert people into clients. How are, how the hell are you doing it? For my fellow introverts out there, it's funny.

When I first started in the old industry that you and I used to be on, I followed someone around who was the Top real estate for one day. She was the top real estate agent back in 2008, when the market was crashing in the entire United States, and we were backstage at a Tony Robbins event, and she was about to go on stage to talk about wealth and wealth management, all this cool stuff. And I was there just kind of shadowing her. And I jokingly said to her, I was like, how many sales do you think you're going to close? Like something really naive. And she's like, jason, can I share with you something? I said, sure. She's like, most of my peers, when they get on the stage, think it's the end goal because they get to sell something and that's where they make their money. And sure, I'm, yeah, sure, I'm going to make some money here today. Like, I absolutely will. But she's like, do you know where I really make my money? I was like, no. She's like, in any given room right now, every time I walk on stage, only about 1 to 3% of the audience has a need or want for my product at this very moment. And I get that. So out of every 100 people, 1 to 3 people, 60% of this room, by the way, will never buy from me. No matter how good I am, how great I am, what I wear, my personality. They just are not going to buy from me. And that's okay, too. But where my money sits is in the middle. It's the 37% of people that over the next six to 12 months, 18 months maybe, are going to need my services. And the difference between me and my peers is that I get to love on these people. I get to build a relationship, I get to add value to their life, and I get to stay top of mind. And if I do, a good majority of them will come back to me and either buy, sell, mortgage, refinance, whatever, you name it, from me. And that's where she made her money. And that lesson always stuck with me because I think right now, you're all listening right now.

This is so important. Okay, continue.

No, I think on social right now, the landscape is always going after the 1 to 3%. It's the most extreme in 2024. Attention is the most expensive commodity in my opinion, because everyone's vying for it. The pool is so much more diluted. Like Facebook ads went from a tiny brand to in 2026 is supposed to free over 200 billion on ad spend, like Facebook ads. That means Instagram and Facebook. $200 billion will be spent for brands playing in this space, which means that everyone's trying to get eyeballs on their thing. So while everyone else is fighting for the 1 to 3%, can you spend time building know, like and Trust with the 37% that are more discerning, that have been around the block? They understand that they've got a problem, maybe in their business, maybe in their team, what's happening in corporate for them right now, and they need a solution, but they're just not quite ready yet. And so for a lot of people, one of my favorite things to look at is how are you introducing them to your beliefs, your frameworks, how you coach differently, how you do business differently, why your product matters, why it matters to you. Like, I think that so often we forget the human element of all of this. And so one of my favorite ways, like I have friends that build telegram groups, I have friends that have built Facebook groups, but my favorite thing right now is honestly building newsletters, which sounds very unsexy, but in a day and age where content lasts maybe two seconds to, I don't know, an hour on social media, you can literally write your 12 greatest hits. And every time someone subscribes to your thing, downloads your guide, downloads your thing, they get the same email of the greatest hits. And maybe they only read three to four of them, but there's a chance for them to get to know who you are, what you stand for. You could send them from your newsletter over to your, I don't know, your podcast or to your YouTube channel. Like anything that's going to build relationship with these people, I think is what matters most here. And it gives people the opportunity to slowly build a relationship to this person. And if you can be clear on what you saw for somebody and they like who you are at some point in time, there's no competition of whether it's you or somebody else. It's going to be you. Because they know your value. More importantly, they understand who you are as a person or at least hopefully have an understanding of who you are. And when you have clients like that, it's not a, I want a refund after a weekend or something like that. Like the loyalty and the brand and the know, like, and trust, it's all there.

So I think that so often people are in it for the short gain. They're like, Jason, I need to make money. Yes, yes, the 1 to 3% are still going to be there, by the way. And also your long term strategy is after about six to 12 months of this, by the way, there's a waterfall effect Meaning after six months, the first wave falls and then the month after that, the people that are now spent six months falls again and over time. This is how you build sustainability in lead flow, finding clients. And you don't have to be on the pressure all the time of what's my daily content strategy, what's my content calendar, what's my matrix look like, Whatever.

You know, I think that I'm so glad that you're saying this for the listener right now because this, this is a long game. It really, really is. And those that I'm seeing converting into really good, like ideal client material is playing the long game. Whether it's podcast, a newsletter, email. Like some of the best converting clients that I've seen for people is email. Because it is exactly what you said. You can share some personal stories or like I'm somebody who's not necessarily going to write, but here I am on a podcast or things like that and by the time somebody's raising their hand and saying, I'm ready to work with you, it's a no brainer because of that. I love that. So how are you helping people kind of do this?

I mean, there's free resources. If someone wants free resources, um, you can literally go to.

Get more clients.

It's literally, it's get more clients newsletter dot com. Um, you guys can also find me under Jason Liu on the socials. But if you just go to get more clients newsletter, I literally have a 24 page guide that outlines exactly how to set it up from zero to having a newsletter and getting subscribers. Um, I think that a lot of us, of us have gotten really lazy when it comes to audience building because, you know, a year ago, two years ago, everything was a two in one conditioner. Meaning if I created daily content, I would nurture my audience. Plus I'd get new eyeballs right now on my stuff. And daily content is not the same now. Like there's zero, almost zero extra organic reach that new eyeballs are going to be on your stuff. And so for a lot of us, it is a, we have to have a way to nurture them and then also find a way to get your stuff out in front of new audiences. Um, and that's a completely different system for a lot of people.

Why do you think it's changed? Do you think people are just buying differently? Do you think because the economy has shifted a little, people are not as quick to throw down the credit card? What do you think shifted? Do you think it's just like people are sick of the Bullshit.

I think there definitely is a level of being jaded with buying programs that don't work or coaches that are great. That's not to knock anybody. It's just, I think people are a little bit more discerning. Yeah. I also think that.

Marketing, it's funny. I think wisdom in most of our areas of our life, once something works in our life, we expect it to work again. And that's true in most areas, except for marketing, Meaning what works today is not going to work in five years, and what works in five years will not work in the next five years, because as soon as someone figures something out, then it's all like, the fish comes straight to it. And the more diluted it becomes and the less that's there. And so I think what I've learned is that there are really pockets of how long your marketing is going to work before you have to figure out something new. And also, I have a mentor that he said, jason, if you own your list and you have enough people that know who you are for that, solving that problem, and you own it, meaning you can talk to them, email, you own the communication style with these people, you will have enough to feed you for a lifetime. He's like, it might take you five years to build an email list of 50,000 people. If 50,000 people knew you for solving this problem and you stayed relevant to these people, you will have money for a lifetime, genuinely. So it might take you a year to find your first 5,000 subscribers. Sure. But why not? Why not go for it? Yeah.

I love it. I love you so much. Seriously, I could talk to you for hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and just learn and just feel like a big, warm hug from you. And I know that the listeners that are tuning in right now, this is a breath of fresh air compared to a lot of the shit that's out there around, like, content is king and. And all this stuff. And although there is, like, a time and place for that, like, we're here for the long game. We really, really are. And I appreciate your take on it. You guys go to getmoreclientsnewsletter.com anything that this man says, trust me, I put my big old stamp of approval on it. And, you know, I don't say that lightly at all. So, Jason, I love you so much. Thanks for coming on and just blessing the socks off all of us.

Thanks for having me. Thanks for having a real conversation. And, um, I'm so appreciative of you, who you stand for, how you show up for your friends and how you just love the heck out of the people around you. I'm so grateful for our friendship, so.

Me too you guys. If you love this episode, please share it. I know that this message does need to be heard by more than not with a lot of the fluffy stuff that's out there. The real talk is what we're all about around here. You can tag me, tag Jason on the socials if you feel inclined to do so, but share it. More than anything, I think this is an important message and one I'm grateful to share with all of you guys. Wishing you so much love and transformation in your lives. We'll see you next week.

Bye guys.

I'm so happy you enjoyed the lead with the Enneagram podcast. Please help us spread the word about this show and the Enneagram by sharing it with a friend and leaving a written Apple podcast review. If you have any follow up questions to this episode, you can DM me on Instagram at traceyomalley. You can also find additional resources on my website@traceeomalley.com I'm so excited to lead you into the next level of your life.