EP409: How to embrace conflict when everything inside you wants harmony and freedom with Julie A (SX Enneagram 9)

Okay, I know you may have heard about the Enneagram or someone told you.

You need to know all about it.

So here you are.

But what the hell do you do with it? Great news.

You are in the right place. Lead with the Enneagram is the show where you will actually learn how to use this incredible growth tool and apply it in all areas of your life, personally and professional. Hi, I'm Tracy and to be honest with you, I was a skeptic of the Enneagram before I started to actually integrate it into my life. In fact, in true enneagram 8 style, I told my therapist to F off when she wanted me to dive into.

It well over a decade ago.

Now that I have more than a decade of experience using the Enneagram and working on myself in my family with those closest to me, building my own bulletproof leadership, sales teams with one on one clients, couples, leading workshops for top Fortune 100 executives, and speaking to large audiences all across the globe about this powerful tool. I've got the proof and deep understanding of how to help you implement this into your life instead of it just being some fun thing you heard about. The Enneagram can be a complex model. But with me as your guide, I will show you how to first lead yourself in a powerful, effective and compassionate way and then help you lead others that way in your life as well. This podcast will have powerful conversations with guests, live typing sessions, and as well as solo episodes of breaking down dynamics of the Enneagram and how they impact your life, career and relationships.

So now let's dive in.

Hello. Hello. Welcome back to an episode of Lead with the Enneagram. And we have a very special hotline episode where you, the listeners get to come on the show and ask live your burning questions about the Enneagram, whether it's specific to you and your type, the people that you love, the people that you lead. Nothing is off the table on the hotline. The only thing you have to do is have done a blueprint with me because then I can give you all the juicy details. And today we have beautiful Julie Artisan. She is a one on one Enneagram 9 with the Enneagram tri type of the 93 5, otherwise known as the Thinker. And we're going to dive into what that means for her too. Because when you do the blueprint, you don't always get that extra juicy information. That's why coming on the hotline is really, really awesome. Julie, hello. What made you want to come on and kind of chit chat with me and share with the beautiful audience, which is very enneagram 9 heavy by the way.

What made you want to come on and ask some questions?

Well, I was just thrilled to get your email. I listened to your podcast all the time. I was. I've just learned so much about the different aspects of the Enneagram and through your blueprint really gave me doing that gave me a lot of food for thought about my own tendencies and how they fit in with others or don't and sort of where I'm at in this time of life and how it can be helpful.

And you are somebody that in your career does like leadership and career coaching at a very high level university in the Chicago area. So for somebody that is in leadership and personal development all the time. Was the Enneagram something that was new to you when I showed up in your life or had you heard of it before?

No, I'd actually heard of it years ago from something. I don't remember why. But so, you know, it's, it's been. I've taken a couple of online things for it, never totally got into it. But then.

More recently.

In my own coaching, I have come to realize as I'm talking to clients that I'm like, oh, their core motivation is safety. Like, and I don't, I haven't even typed them. I'm just like, it really sort of frames up some of the different kinds of conversations that I feel like I can have that go deeper with clients than just, you know, resumes or like interview prep or anything like that. It's really more about like, why is this hard for you? What motivates you? What makes you scared? A lot of those very like sort of intimate kinds of details that you may not want to share with a lot of people, but that if you're in a one on one coaching container, I think getting support in that when you're doing something that's pretty difficult can be really, really powerful.

I find that when we are in any kind of position where we guide people, that understanding them and what motivates them and kind of like their core fear that might pop up for them allows us to really speak in a language that they can receive. Right. I've said this before, like I've had people that have been in charge of leading me and they did not know the language of my soul. And so I, you know, being an Enneagram made, I'm super rebellious in that way and non conforming and they missed the mark on what they could get out of me. And also Like I was robbing myself of my own journey. So I think especially not just in what you do, but those that we love, those that we lead out in the world, anybody we come in contact with, with, the more that we're more open to understanding what's at the core of why they do what they do and what is the fear that, you know, has them guarded up in whatever that looks like for you. How has understanding your enneagram type, when you took an online test before, you. You mentioned nines, threes coming up, right? Did you get a difference of opinions in a lot of those online assessments before?

Yeah, I think I took it once a few years ago and was convinced I was a three. And then I took it more recently, and I had a 9 and then maybe a 7 and a 5 and then a 3 that were in close succession after it. And so it was like, well, I don't know what I am, you know, and what's going on. And so then, you know, I sort of put it down again for a little while, and then.

You know, engaged with your content. And then I was like, I'm gonna see what this test says.

And it was really, really confirming. Like, it made me believe more that I'm a 9 than these other numbers that other tests or people or whatever have suggested I might be.

Well, the assessment that I have people take when I give you the customized blueprint that you get is it takes kind of the nature part of life, the. The experiences we've taken into life. And it kind of gets at you a few different angles, because that instinctual response to life is probably the number one reason why all those other online assessments are inaccurate, because it doesn't take that into consideration. Whereas this assessment really kind of takes like, okay, Julie, this is how you're naturally wired. But when you're dropped into systems, families, circumstances, traumas, school systems, whatever, what is your natural instinctual response to life? And that can alter. And it's why you can have two nines right next to each other. And the way that they strategically kind of find their place in the world, even though they're motivated, the same way they fear, the same way their approach and strategy about going about that can look really, really different. And as a one on one type, which is what I am too.

Whether I'm an eight and you're a nine, the one on one instinct kind of is about how does things affect us like our inner circle, the people that we're leading, the people that are clients, the people that are students, the people that we're raising the people that we love. And the intensity of experience, like that is our first go to in how we go about getting our motives and our needs met. And I do the same thing as a one on one eight, so that that alone can make you look very different from like a self preservation 9 who's about safety, security and comfort first. You're about like the experience interpersonally. That's where you go to first. So makes sense with the work that you do too, as like a tenured professor. Like makes a lot of sense. Like you love being in the trench with people.

Yeah.

And. And that's also where you and I have to be careful of self abandonment because we go for that first. And sometimes we will bypass our own safety, security and comfort and our own personal needs. And as a nine, and as an eight, we're motivated by independence, autonomy, and control. So then we can end up resentful once we've gotten in the trench with people if we're not careful. Right?

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

So I know you got a few questions for me.

Yeah.

What's the first one? And what's cool about this is even though, like you're asking for you personally, this is gonna help so many people that have very similar questions, whether there are nine or not. So thank you for being so transparent with your questions today. Sure.

So just going off of the underlying resentment piece, I think I'll start with this question I had about the underlying feeling and for a nine is anger.

Yeah.

Which really surprises me because I'm not somebody who like, I almost cry when I get angry more than I like get upset and angry. And so my question for you was like, I suppress it a lot. It's often like the top or the layer above the anger I would label as more like anxiety or avoidance. And I wondered if there was any wisdom from the Enneagram about.

This feeling of anger and how to, as a nine, who's the peacemaker.

Right.

Handle that effectively in my own life.

Yeah. So within each of the centers of intelligence, you know, there's three Enneagram types in each center of intelligence. And the eights, nines and ones are in the instinctual or gut center. Right. All three of those have the underlying emotion of anger. Now, even in the heart center and the thinking center, their underlying emotions are the same in each of those centers of intelligence. But there's a theme in understanding the enneagram and the centers of intelligence that there's one with the underlying emotion that's external with it, one is internal with it. And one kind of shuts it down and suppresses it. So within the instinctual center Eights, it's why a lot of people are mistyped as Eights, because that external anger is pretty obvious. Like we're explosive and like no poker face at all. When an eight is angry. Right. And so a lot of people associate that's anger, right. Ones kind of take it internally like that inner critic. And sometimes that can kind of spill over too. But they theirs is more of an internal job before it spills out. For the Nines, you do suppress it. Absolutely. You shut that shit down. But it doesn't mean it's not there.

Right?

Right. And it's kind of like that volcano starting to erupt. You can push it down, push it down, push it down. But if you're running out of room of suppression, it's going to come out. But even so, for an enneagram9, one of the ways it does come out is through passive aggressive words and behavior. So avoidance and procrastination is a form of passive aggressive anger. Right. It's like, I won't be controlled, so I'm going to do it when I want to do it. Stonewalling, like shutting it down, like people can talk to you and you can just be a wall. That's a form of passive aggressive anger. Selective hearing, forgetting all of that, whether you're conscious of it or not, is a form of that passive aggressive. I won't be controlled. I'm angry as hell, but you know, I'm not letting it faze me. Because the motive of the Nine is that harmony, that need for harmony internally and externally, that low key is how A9 believes they're having harmony is by not letting themselves be angry. And although it might create short term harmony in the short game, for the long game, the more that you shove that down, the more it's going to come spewing out or your back's going to be up against the wall or it's going to create what you said, that fear and anxiety. Because when a 9 is under stress and all that suppressing is piling up, your stress number is the Enneagram 6, which is the ultimate worrier on the Enneagram. The worst case scenario. But what about this? But what about this? But what about this? And you start to feel that internal anxiety because your harmony is about to get rocked because you've been shoving this crap down for as long as you have. So one of the things you can kind of identify and how do you leverage this like Anger is a healthy emotion when used in leveraged property. It's not a bad thing. It's just most of us express it in ways that are destructive, right? Whether it's external, like I do it, or shoving it down like you do. So recognizing when it's there, that resentment is usually because you feel like you're being controlled by something and your harmony is being, you know, confronted. Right? You don't like that. You don't like that. Especially when people try to put deadlines on you. You're like, I'll get to it when I get to it. I'll get to it at the final minute, but I'm doing it on my time. That is a form of anger and.

That freedom, right? That's how you maintain harmony and freedom in your head. But recognizing that it's there and it's not a bad thing. It's just what you're going to do with it and how you're going to use it to not create dysfunction in your life. That's been one of my life lessons is how do I use this. This anger that is my go to emotion for something good rather than hurting people, blowing up my life, or sabotaging, you know, the abundance that I know is here for me. Does that make sense?

Yeah, it totally makes sense. And it really resonates just in some situations that I have recently been in in terms of.

Stonewalling and, you know, sort of avoiding certain things. And.

I can totally relate to the idea that that is a manifestation of some resentment. Resentment and kind of an open loop with somebody that I need to close, but I'm avoiding because it's going to be a little bit of conflict.

So what I've told a lot of Nines is like, yeah, you know, conflict. It's the biggest fear of the enneagram 9. They want to avoid it at all costs. But the more that you avoid it, the more that you create, like, disharmony for your life in the long game and your health. Right? Because the more that we avoid stuff, it's going to pile up and it's going to affect us hormonally. It's going to affect our nervous system. It's going to affect all sorts of stuff. And so nines have to kind of fall in love in some way or develop a healthier relationship with conflict.

It. You can't avoid it. It's going to happen. And here's the deal. Conflict can be one of the greatest catalysts for change. It's just a. Just like me and vulnerability. It is not my favorite thing to do in the world at all. But the more that I've learned how to build a healthy relationship with it, I'm operating much better than when I'm just like being an asshole all the time. Same thing for Nines with, you know, having that relationship and being okay with conflict, knowing that I will settle for short term disharmony to create long term freedom and harmony.

Right, right, right. And I think focusing on that current, like being uncomfortable in the moment and being okay with that is something I have worked on and got much, much better at during my career.

But it is still like a go to, to. To put it off or avoid.

Yeah, and it will. That will always be your blind spot. Always, always, always. And it's not a bad thing. It's like you can do all the personal development in the world. I mean, shit, you teach this shit. So do I. And I have blind spots too. And it's just like when we drive a car, doesn't matter what kind of car we're driving, how nice or fancy it is, the car's got a blind spot and if you don't check it, you're going to wreck it. And so just knowing that this is a blind spot that will always be there. And before you act or don't act like, check it like, okay, am I settling for short term harmony? But is this going to create a longer problem down the road or longer resentment, which will then have this compound effect of procrastination, anger, stonewalling, you know, all the things that really will disrupt your life at some point. For sure.

Yeah.

Here's the thing about Nines that, you know, they are the, like the Yoda of the enneagram. I've said this before, like, you sit at the top of the enneagram and more than any other type, you have the ability to see the perspective of us all. And that's one of your spiritual gifts, is like you really are non judgmental. You are safe, you are like inclusive. Like, that's one of the beautiful things about you. And because you do have that perspective, you do have an opinion. But a lot of times nines will shove down their opinion because it might disrupt or create conflict. But for all of you guys listening, the Nines that say, I don't care, whatever you want, I don't what, whatever you think know that they do have an opinion and a thought. And sometimes it takes pulling teeth to get it out of them. And, and here's the thing, Julie, we really do want to hear your perspective because you Will deliver it in a way that is a lot nicer than somebody like me. So we need. We need nines to speak up and use their opinion from time to time. You don't have to do it all the time. But yeah, you know, really gauging, especially if you fear conflict and know that you're settling for the short game. Like, that's when you. You share your opinion.

Yeah, yeah, that's really. That's really useful, I think, as a way to frame up the anger and its connection to conflict and avoidance of conflict.

All right, what's another question you got?

I had talked about being in a hard season. I have been having some health issues and recently lost my father. So having grief. And I'm definitely feeling my quote unquote, sloth tendencies, which is, I believe, the exact word that comes back. It does.

For an enneagram 9 when they're sort of in a disintegrating kind of like when they're stressed out and everything. And again, wisdom of the Enneagram, kind of wondering.

Other than knowing that I'm in a sloth moment and that I need to work through these, like, emotions and health issues and I'm working on them. Like, what.

Do I just embrace the sloth? Do I. You know, I don't know.

Yeah. This is where self awareness isn't always enough. Right. And same. Like, same. I get this. Like, it's great that we know this. Like you said, it's like. And yes, like, give yourself some gentle grace because, yes, you're grieving. Now, the tricky thing for some enneagram like this is where, like, the advice I give you may be different than the advice I give a three or a seven. Right. Where usually them. I'll have them slow down, get quiet. That's contrary action from what they typically would do. It's one thing to identify you're in it and to be gentle and kind and non judgmental with yourself. And you have to do contrary action, which is to take fucking action. Right. As an enneagram9, you're a more withdrawn type, which, like, that's where some of your greatest gifts come out. Because you can kind of pull back and kind of observe and. And gather your thoughts. But withdrawing is also where you can stay stuck in the sloth. Yeah. Right. And nothing good happens there if you're there too long. And nines tend to stay there a little too long. So kind of using the wisdom of the Enneagram as a compass, it's like, yes, I'm here. Yes, I'm feeling This? Yes. Like this is okay. And I have to take some contrary action and I am in this season right now where like anytime I meditate it's like give me the contrary action that I'm supposed to be taking. Because I know all this shit. Yeah. I know exactly what's happening. But it's not changing. The information doesn't equal transformation. Integration of it does. So you know you can go from Sloth and Eeyore to Yoda not just by understanding this, but this is where the other framework of the Enneagram and why we're more than just our type. Like that's our home base and that's where our core fears and core motives reside and why we do what we do. But if you just leaned on your nine, it's never going to solve this for you. It's not always the right tool for the job. It's your go to tool for the job. But you have other tools in your toolbox in the form of your wings. So as a nine, you have a one wing and an eight wing. So this is especially when we catch ourselves in the disintegrated kind of area again, meeting ourselves with compassion, grace and empathy. Because judgment and shame and anger at ourselves and like all that stuff won't serve us, it'll just keep us stuck in that longer. So first of all, identifying you're there, be gentle like you would with a four year old. Like you're not going to tell a four year old, four year old they're a piece of shit for feeling sad.

Right?

Right. But we're also going to do something about it. And so this is when you bring in your supporting cast or the supplements, they're not your natural go to but let's pull up one of these other tools. But we have to know how and when to use them. So as a nine, having the one wing is your truth serum. Nines like to live in a lot of gray area. This is how you justify procrastination. This is how you justify selective here. It's how you justify everything. It's why you are so non judgmental and inclusive and safe for a lot of people. This is where you also bury yourself. So the one wing is kind of your truth serum, right? The one is all about black and white. Is it good or bad, right or wrong? Not a lot of gray area. They got problems with that. Obviously you can see where that's not always the right tool for the job. But for you using the one like that, what's really happening? What is the truth? Here. Do I really want to speak up? Even the Nine is going to say, no, we do not. The One is like, yes, we do. This is a battle that, like, we're worth it. My dad's not coming back. He would want me to live. My health is not going to get better by worrying about it. So let's do. Let's take some action here. Right? The one can kind of help you speak truth into yourself with compassion and love. But the One and the nine together won't necessarily take the action. They know the action and they know they should, but they won't necessarily take the action. So this is where having an eight wing is also really good. And you got to use both. Especially when we're at the most disintegrated or even in our stress number. We need those wings. They are the real superheroes of the Enneagram, quite honestly, because they're the tools in the toolbox that pull us out of the shit. The shitstorms.

I see.

So that 8 Wing will be like.

All right, we're freaking doing it. Eights are not afraid of conflict. Eights love the battle. The Eights love to rise from the ashes. The Eights love the intensity. The Eights love stirring the pot a little bit. And sometimes the nine needs a little bit of that in their life.

Yeah.

And so when you feel yourself in sloth mode again, be gentle, but bring in the one in the eight wing. And you have to practice using these muscles.

They don't just build because you know they're there. It's kind of like going to the gym. Like, if you walk in the gym and kind of just sit on a bench and scroll on your phone, you're not building your muscles.

Yeah.

Enneagram. Same way you can know you have a 1 and 8 wing. But if you don't practice actually using them when shit's hitting the fan, they're not going to be strong enough to carry you. So start. What I usually will tell people is start practicing where you can use these wings in your life, where it's not like all hell's breaking loose so that when it does. Because that's life lifing you.

Yeah.

They'll be strong enough to sustain and help pull you out of the pit of Slothful.

And it's good. Like, I can even think of moments where I have channeled the eight and then. And the one. Like. Because they were Accept. Like they were not usual. Right?

Yeah.

And so. But even having that sense memory is, I think, going to be really useful as I think about bringing myself up out of the sort of grief and sloth mode that I'm in. Interesting.

And they will also help you honor the grief process, because, yes, like, you don't want to stay stuck in it, but you still have to go through your grieving process. It's very important to get to acceptance and transformation. Whether it's grieving the loss of your dad, grieving the loss of the 40s, like you and I have, grieving the loss of anything, even when it was a good thing.

Yeah.

If we rob ourselves of the grieving process, we don't get to acceptance and transformation. So your wings can also help pull you out when you need to, but also allow you to feel the full scope of the emotions that are required to go through grief.

Yeah.

Awesome. That's super helpful. I know. You got one more. What is it?

It's about my core motivator.

Okay.

Which we talked about a little bit. Understanding that freedom is my core motivator.

Has really thrown me for a loop because.

I'm a sociology professor. I got tenure 15 years ago.

Yeah.

So I have a very permanent, safety, secure job. And I always kind of thought that safety was my main. Because I, you know, like, that I was anxious and I needed safety. But there were some flashes that I got when I got the report of like, wait a minute. I really do value freedom. And it's sort of just like, kind of turned things upside down for me. And so I just wanted to talk about that because I've always considered myself to be somebody who's super risk averse.

Yeah. And you know, your nines are risk adverse when it comes to harmony. Right. But there are times when it comes to independence, autonomy, control, you're. You're like, it. I'm doing it. Like, you know, that's the difference. Like, if it's gonna rock your harmony, the chances of you feeling like this before you had your tenure, probably not so much. But since you've been tenured and now you've been sitting in it, you recognize, like, that isn't actually my motive. Would you be risky without that? Maybe not, but there's nothing wrong with that. Right. But this need for independence, autonomy and control and freedom is really, really important to a nine. It's why when people tell you what to do, you're like. Like, even though on the outside you might be smiling, sure, no problem. Inside, you're like, screw you. Like, I'm going to procrastinate. I'm not going to do this. Right. Where is the conflict for you?

Well, it's interesting, as you were talking about it being more. What were the three words you used wasn't freedom.

It was independence, autonomy and control.

Yes. So one of the things that you do have as a tenured faculty member is a ton of autonomy and independence and control over your classrooms, over the kind of research that you do, over what kinds of creative work that you want to do. And so there's a lot that's already built into that job that maybe I was just overplaying the safety and not really recognizing that I actually picked a career in which I do have freedom, autonomy and safety, or freedom, autonomy and control in some very, very big ways that working in corporate America or otherwise wouldn't. Would probably not have granted me.

But you still have to show up every day, right?

Yeah. I mean, for class, right?

Right.

Yeah. No, I have to show up for. I have to show up for class. I have responsibilities. I'm an administrator now, so I go into the office.

On a flexible.

Conflict is kind of happening for you. So even though you have independence, autonomy and control in regards to what you do, what you teach, how you teach it, you can't get fired pretty much unless you do something crazy. But at the end of the day, you don't necessarily have full independence, autonomy, autonomy, control and freedom because you still have to show up.

Yeah.

Even when you don't want to. And that's where that inner conflict is coming a little bit.

I see.

And that's why like some nines that like, they get to that point and they're like, screw it, I'm just gonna do this on my own. Not saying you, but other nines where they venture into entrepreneurship because they think, well, great, nobody's gonna control me. Which is great. But also, nines are not the best self starters either. Right. And so, you know, it's weighing like, yes, I have the independence, autonomy, control, freedom in the tenure that I've got. And sometimes, even though you might resent or be frustrated being told what to do and when to show up, sometimes weighing that for yourself before we blow up our lives, enneagram nines out there, because I get the appeal of.

No restrictions and nobody telling you what you can do, that seems like the ultimate harmonious place. But when you have to show up for yourself and nobody's pushing you, that can get kind of scary too. So really always kind of balancing that out. And even when you are a faculty member, an administrator, and when you do feel like you're being controlled a little bit, where can you find where you do have that autonomy so that you can find joy in that journey.

Yeah.

On days where you don't feel like it.

Yeah. I mean, I think that makes a ton of sense and it's very consistent with some of the feelings I have had over the last several years of administration and really.

Yeah.

Thinking about how I can lean more into that independence is really, really, really useful. And even with my, you know, my. My coaching business, which at this point is a side hustle and something that I feel really passionate about because I've done research on women and employment patterns in my earlier career, I.

I can see how the.

When you were saying you have to show up for yourself and there's nobody that's going to hold you accountable except for you, I was like, oh.

No.

Yeah. I could be a little rebellious with that one too. Like, I can get into a pickle if I'm not careful too. It's like, no rules. Hell yeah. And then it's like, shit, no rules. Like, what am I doing over here?

Exactly. Exactly. And it's. Yeah, it's interesting, just the idea of even having discipline. Right. To be consistent or consistent promotion about what services I offer and things like that. It's. It has been a struggle to get into a good. What I would consider to be consistent rhythm with that because. Exactly. For what you're. The reason you're saying, which is that I have to then like, sort of. I don't want to feel pinned in.

Yeah. This is another area where the wings kind of save our ass. Right. Because like your natural tendency. My natural tendency is like, I won't be controlled. I won't. Like, you're not going to tell me I have to show up and market myself. You're not going to tell me. But then we don't have a side hustle or a business. Right. So, like, my wings kind of get my ass straight and they're like, okay, I know this is like, this feels vulnerable for you or for you. This feels like. Like you're being controlled and not harmonious in my body. And that's how we justify doing what we do. But, like, the 8 and the 9 sometimes aren't the right tool for the job when we're trying to protect that core fear from happening. So again, like, using the framework and the wisdom and the system and the mapping system of the Enneagram can really allow you to compassionately be honest with yourself and then pull in these other tools that really help us, like, not change our authentic self. I'm always going to be spicy. You're always going to be Kumbaya. Right. Like that's your energy. Like that's not changing. Yeah, but my spiciness and your kumbaya ness isn't always the right tool for the job. And so always pulling these other tools in to enhance our authentic self.

Yeah.

So that we feel really good about it. Even when it's like scary or like confronting or feeling like we're being controlled. Sometimes that's just a story we're telling ourselves.

Yeah.

We need support, the support system to come into play. It's not easy and it, like I said, like we can know this, but until we start really building the muscles and exercising them in real life and real situations, like when you're faced with a really hard thing. Yeah, we don't want to. Like that's when I started building these muscles is when I was going through really a hard time. And it's never fun to have to build these muscles like when all hell's breaking loose. So for those of you listening right now, take it now. Learn your wings. Know your growth and stress number. Those four numbers alone, like understanding the gifts and the skill sets of all four of those numbers will help you when your default wants to protect at all costs and sabotage or play small or self abandon or, you know, rob you of what you know you're here to do and the impact you're here to make.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, anything else you got, like, anything else coming.

I want to hear more about this. I want to hear more about this thinker tri type that you.

Yes, I love it. So I talk about the tri types a lot in like my one on one conversations and in the workshops that I do because, you know, the three centers of intelligence which basically house all nine enneagram types. You know, even though you and I, our natural default is to go to instincts as an 8 and a 9 here and the ones do too. So eights and nines and ones go to what is happening right now and what do I need to do about it? Like, that's why we're really great in crisis. Like, yeah, right. It's amazing. But we do use our feelings and we do use our thinking. It's not where we go first, but especially if we're building strong critical thinking and stronger emotional intelligence. It's really helpful to understand how you process feelings and communicate feelings and how you process your thoughts and how you communicate those. Right. And this is where the tri type comes into play because we all dominate in each of the centers as a type. It doesn't change our core type, it doesn't change where we go to first. But since you and I go to instincts first, we need to know where we go when it comes to our feelings and our thoughts. And I'm not surprised by this. You dominate like a three in the think or in the feeling center. So when you're asking yourself, how do I feel about this and what has happened, you operate like a three, which also suppresses feelings, but they get shit done. So this is why you've also been able to have the career you've had. And like resourceful, resilient, tenacious. Like you have that in you. And it also allows you to avoid your feelings even more. So the nine part of you kind of likes that.

Yeah, exactly.

But it's also how you're able to get things done where other nines might struggle too.

I see. Yeah.

Okay. But where. Where you might get hung up a little bit.

Is in the thinking center. My thinking center is hanging me up right now too. Um, I dominate like a six, so it's got me in fear and worry and worst case scenario, thinking, which is not helping me at all. So we can use these centers of intelligence in a not so healthy way too. Right, but you dominate like a five in the thinking center, which makes a lot of sense. As an educator, a professor, you gotta have all like, fives are specialists. They are experts at whatever they choose to learn about sociology. You're a professor, been doing it for a freaking long time. Fives also are avoidant and withdraw.

So when the nine in you wants to be slothy, the next thing you know, you can be hold up to the black hole of Google and YouTube probably for hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and isolating yourself.

Right?

Or I just need to know more because that'll make me take more action, which actually is not the case.

Right.

It actually creates more of a bottleneck.

But the five is where all your wisdom, this is where you look for facts. So it can help the nine part of you that likes to live in the gray area. The 5 is very fact and non emotional. And so you can also use that five to tell you, like, feelings aren't facts. Even though the nine is saying, this does not feel peaceful, this feels not like freedom. The five can be like, okay, here's the facts, lady. Yeah, this, these are the facts. So when you have the 3, 5, 9 or the 9, 3, 5 or the 5, 3, 9, tri type. So you can have, you can be a 5 and have the same tri type, you can be a 3 and have the same tri type, but with this, you're called the thinker, which means you're ambitious, knowledgeable and accepting. You want to be efficient, wise and peaceful. You're intellectual, you're clever. You find pleasant ways to manage difficult situations and relationships. This tri type often has a shy kind of disposition too. And you're very private and slow to trust. You do need more time to reveal yourself. Super ambitious, but seek admiration in a subtle way. Not like a three does. Like, hey, I'm in the room. Check me out. But more through kind of this way that you bring harmony and peace to situations. This is also the more focused and knowledgeable 9 than some of the other 9 tri types. Most goal oriented 9 and intellectual. Like I said, you can be very hidden A lot of times. This type, this tri type is mistaken for a 5 if you're more introverted.

Yeah.

But a lot of times the nines with this tri type are very impressive to others because you have that peaceful, harmonious nature, but you have the ability to get done like a three. But you have also the intellect, the wisdom, the expertise that fives bring to the table as well.

Yeah. Oh, okay. That all sounds both good and tricky.

It is. Like all of us, like all of our tri types are where, like, yes, we're. That's usually. If you hadn't resonated with your. Your type originally, that's usually kind of like, oh, I feel so seen. And that can feel really, really good and also really confronting because, yes, there are ways that. That can work against you as well. Yeah, My tri type also, like, it's why I'm great at this and great. Why I'm great at what I do and also why, like, I can end up in very codependent patterns if I'm not careful.

Right, right.

Where you could isolate and withdraw if you're not careful.

Yep. Yeah. And I've definitely been going through that.

Yeah. Makes sense.

Especially pandemic didn't help. But even, you know, in the last couple years, I've been there too.

I get it, girl. Well, I appreciate you coming on and being so transparent. I know you helped a lot of people that. Not only our nines, but those of us that love and lead nines. And you probably made a lot of sense for those of us that love and lead nines where we're like, God, like, I don't get it sometimes. You helped us all get it. Any last thoughts for those of us that love or lead a 9? 11 do that you can do for a 9 that makes you feel really good and loved. Oh.

When it's sort of what you did when we hopped on before the thing. Are you okay? And I was like, sure, I'm fine. And you were like, are you really fine? Is that like the public consumption or the really fine? I was like, busted. Follow up questions for the win for nine.

Oh, that is such great advice, you guys, because nines will be like, yeah, I'm good. I'm fine. Fine means feelings inside, not expressed. So especially if you know you're talking to a 9 or somebody who that's their typical go to like and. And like you said, I. I did it gently.

You did.

I wasn't aggressive. I was like, are you sure? Is that the politically correct answer? Is that the truth? Yeah. Thank you. That is great advice for those that love our Leader nine. And if you guys haven't done your blueprint yet, you can go to tracyomalley.com go get it. It's 75 pages of your soul roadmap so that when you do get tripped up by life, when life lifes you, you have a beautiful system roadmap, framework, soul honoring process to kind of help pull you out. And you can always come back to the podcast and check in or you can do a one on one session if you choose to. But Julie, I appreciate you coming on and sharing your heart and your life with all of us and helping us love and lead the enneagram 9 a little bit better.

This was great. Thanks so much for having me.

All right guys, we'll see you next time on Lead with the Enneagram. Talk soon.

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