The Enneagram, Business & Leadership w/ Tracy O'Malley

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Welcome to Natalia Benson the Podcast. If you're ready to launch, scale or evolve the sol aligned business of your dreams, then this podcast was made for you. With 16 plus years of entrepreneurial experience on my side, I'm here to empower you with the tools necessary to create life on your terms. I'm a conscious business strategist, money mentor and astrologer. And here we marry the pragmatic with the mystical. Thank you so much for doing this work with me and let's dive in.

Hello, my gorgeous. Welcome to another episode of Natalia Benson the Podcast. I am very, very excited. I have one of my. I literally call her my soulmate because I know that she is one of my soulmates in this life. I have the incredible trai Tracy o' Malley on the show today. We are going to be talking about all things Enneagram and business and Tracy is just such a deep spirit. That is why she and I are so close. I met her, as I mentioned, a couple of weeks ago. I met her in Chris Harder's elite level Mastermind. I did this a couple of years ago and she and I just formed such a powerful relationship and powerful friendship. And this is actually Tracy's second time coming back on the show. Now you guys, I'm going to give you a little behind the scenes. So the day that we recorded this, a couple of things I it was one of the fingers crossed last massive rainstorms that we had in Laguna. And when we have those massive rainstorms, it's literally hard for me to go to the office. Like, I just, I'm like, I want to just work from my PEMF mat and just work from the couch. And that day the mic that I had completely went kaput on me. I did the, my regular mic was at the office. I used my AirPods. So we'll see if Alex was able to edit it, make it sound really, really lovely. But then also Trace was just fighting bronchitis. So two aries just really figuring it out together. So Alex is the best. But if there's any like little moments where things sound a little bit funky, just cruise on through. Because the messaging and the wisdom that Tracy brings through about the Enneagram is just truly life changing. And her wisdom and expertise around the Enneagram is just, it's mind blowing. It's a system that I don't know a lot about. But Tracy, I actually did the test that she has and she gave me my like Enneagram blueprint. I'm a three. And when she gave me a reading around my Enneagram. I was just absolutely blown away. Like her pinpointing and spotting things that like it's just such a beautiful for me adjunct to my understanding of myself in terms of my astrology chart and then in addition what I know about myself as a manifesting generator. So Tracy is also really into astrology and human design. But her just take on the Enneagram and how puts it puts it in the framework of business and leadership is just absolutely mind blowing. And you guys are going to get so much from this and I'm just honored to get to introduce you. If you didn't get to listen to my first episode with Tracy to just such a dear beautiful sister of mine who's just such a powerhouse. So Tracy, I'm going to read her bio just like I did with Chris Harder. Neither of them sent me their bio so I'm reading it from their website. So Tracy o' Malley does not have your typical highlight reel bio, which is also what makes her remarkably gifted at identifying your blind spots and success blocks. This multimillionaire entrepreneur you see today was not set up for success. In fact, the odds were against her. Tracy has been arrested, been a blackout drunk, divorce with two little kids and broke, and had to rebuild her life and businesses from rock bottom without friends, network and family support that many people assume she must have had in deep supply. After reaching top 1% of network marketers in the world, going from zero to millionaire in just 26 months, Tracy's mission shifted. Now her primary focus is coaching and consulting individuals, entrepreneurs, couples and professional corporate teams to leverage their natural strengths and stressors to achieve unstoppable success. Tracy has a unique coaching style where she uses the Enneagram framework to uncover the patterns of how you interpret the world, navigate your emotions and your interpersonal relationships. You can connect with Tracy on Instagram @tracyomalley and get direct weekly coaching in your ear by subscribing to her popular podcast, the Leadership Formula. It's actually now called Lead with the Enneagram. She talks about that today, so I will make sure to have Tracy's links in the show. Notes she is an Aries Capricorn, Ascendant, Sagittarius Moon, just like me. Truly, truly such a magnificent woman. And if you guys want to get a little bit deeper around the basics of the Enneagram and the ties between the Enneagram and astrology, Tracy and I have an earlier episode that we recorded a couple of years ago and I will have Lane link that in the show Notes along with all of the ways that you can get in touch and work with Tracy. And of course, if you love this episode, definitely reach out to her. Say hi. She's just such a magnificent woman and someone who's really just transformed my life and helped me feel so seen for exactly who I am. She really has a gift in doing that. So I love you guys so much enjoy this episode and I just appreciate you coming back week after week, even when my technology and my moments with my microphone are maybe not always tip top shape, but we, we're here, we do it, we stay consistent even if we're working from the couch. So I love you guys immensely. Enjoy episode with the exquisite Tracy o' Malley and I will see you on the other side. I love you.

Tracy o', Malley, my soulmate. Welcome back to the show, babe. I'm so excited to have this conversation with you.

So honored always to chat with you whether it's in private or on the the grander webs of the world.

I feel like I think about you a lot because.

I just had this thought about you, man, what was I doing? I started doing Tony Robbins priming again and it said, think of a time in a moment in your life that was exciting. And I think about the day we went and raced cars when we were doing Chris Harder's Mastermind together. And then that was the day that you and I sat down and you literally healed me, helped me heal and healed me because your presence is healing. And you I'll never forget. Like my association of that day was the fun that I had. But then the major memory for me that I think of, and I'm so grateful was how you sat down and you gave me the purest presence and you helped me understand, like the wounding of like my inner child. So I think about you all the time. And we're both Aries, so I know that we'll take our space. We talk on podcasts, we see each other and talk like once a quarter, but we just love each other infinitely. And I, I knew I was going to get to see you today and I couldn't wait.

Same. And you know, what you just said is so profound. And I think if you're listening right now and you're like, you know, you have some stuff that you have to work on, but you are maybe concerned that it might be so heavy that it takes the fun and fulfillment and is very disruptive. It doesn't have to be. Like, you can hold space for that innocence, that playfulness that we had earlier in the day and equally hold healing and hard stuff that we have to acknowledge in order to have sustainable transformation in our life. In any regard, it doesn't have to be as hard as maybe you're making it. And I think that you're a perfect, true testament to what that looks like every single day. And so am I. Like, I have a hell of a lot of fun and play in that innocence and playfulness that I didn't get to as a kid. And equally am raising my hand every day saying I'm here to do the work that I can, not just transform my own life, but then pay that forward in the people that I'm raising and the people that I love and lead out in the world. So thank you. I'm honored to be here in your life. Honestly, I just love you.

I love you so deeply and I. This just wants to come through. This is interesting because I know that we're going to talk about Enneagram and business because when we aired your episode, I think it must have been the end of. Was it 2022? 2021. I literally don't even remember it was the end of.

I think it was the end of 2021. We were both laying down, recording it. Like we literally on a Friday night. We were like slumbering.

Tracy and I are Aries Sag Moons cap ascendants. We are like the same soul in two different bodies. And.

And we're both manifesting generators too.

And we're both Manny Gens. You. What's your profile again?

Five. One.

Okay. And I'm a 1 3.

But we.

We are so similar and our just like our depth of heart and our intensity and our passion for people and for truth is. So that's why I think we have just connected. And you are one of the best things that came out of that mastermind for me. I told Chris that I just had him on the po and babe, I. I wanted to share something because of course we're going to dive into Enneagram and business. Everyone, like I was going to say, freaked out from the last episode when I had you on and just so fascinating. You're like a wealth of wisdom. But I want to touch on something really beautiful that might seem kind of random, but not really. Last time you and I spoke, you said something so powerful and you talked about how the greatest. Because I want to talk a little bit about your story for anyone who hasn't met you yet, but you said that like one of the most beautiful moments you've ever had in your life. Was when your kids, like, wrote you those cards for Christmas. Can you. Do you mind sharing that? Have you ever talked about that publicly? Because, like, I just think this is such a. As someone who is not a parent yet, like, that conversation, like, changed my life. And whether it's women listening who are parents or who maybe want to go on that journey, I just want you to share, because your journey, your story, is so powerful, and this was a.

Powerful moment, you know, and because, you know, I sent, you know, one of my kids to you and trusted you and your mentorship with my most prized things in my life with my daughter. And I knew she was in beautiful hands. And, you know, you. You took the baton where I couldn't lead her in her uniqueness, and I knew that you would. And so, you know, for the parents listening or those that aspire to be a parent, I think so often we fixate on what we give our kids or anything like that. And the greatest gift you can give them is your story. And not in a burdening way, but as you kind of raise your hand to your own children and say, like, listen, I don't know what I'm doing, but I know my intention is nothing but pure and beautiful, and we're going to learn this together, and I will make mistakes, and I will take ownership of all of that. And for the longest time, the first half of their life, I was so stoic and strong all the time, and I thought I was really doing them a great favor by doing that and inadvertently created insecurity and lacking confidence in both of them in different ways because they're very different from each other. And it wasn't until about 11 years ago that I really, really dove deep into the healing and transformation process pretty publicly, too, that I started sharing the stories of my childhood with my kids. Not to make excuses for my shortcomings as their mom at times, but for them to better understand that I'm learning a hell of a lot to, you know, take it down to ground zero in order to build back up a different way than what I was taught, told, and modeled. And they were teenagers that they were 14 and 15 at the time. They really appreciated that because it wasn't it wasn't me saying, well, I did the best I could, and this is the excuse for why I don't know how to nurture. It was like, I realize I lack in this area, and all I know is what I've known, but I'm willing to learn a whole different way. But I'm going to be messy as, as I do it. And you know, I've never been somebody who was into my birthday and you and I kind of chatted about it. You know, I love being an Aries. I love, you know, all of that. But I was never celebrated and I'm still not in my family of origin. And so it was really painful to be acknowledged on my birthday. And for the longest time with my own kids, I was like, I'm not into it, like. And they so desperately wanted to celebrate me. And in telling parts of my, my history with them, they understood why it was so painful for me. And I said, honestly, I don't want gifts. Too many conditions came with gifts that I've been given in my life that the greatest gift you could give me is what impact I've made in your life this last year. And so for Christmas, for Mother's Day, for my birthday, they know, they don't even ask me anymore. And they, at first they didn't believe me, but I'm like, I'm positive. And so every one of those three holidays I get a handwritten letter from both of them. And this last year was probably the most impactful. Usually Casey, my enneagram 7capricorn free spirited hippie, is usually playful and light and has doodles and pictures all over the letters. And Joey, my son, who's an enneagram 2 Pisces empath, you know, he's usually very serious. And. And this year they kind of flip flopped. And it was so beautiful, the lessons they have gathered from the last year like that for me. And I've gone back. I have this one box in my house in my office. Like, literally, if the house is burning down, the kids, the dogs in that box are what's coming. Everything else can burn to the ground. Because the transformation I've seen in our relationship and my role as their mother and what I bring to the table for them as they move into their mid-20s, I know that if my time is called tomorrow, I've done a hell of a fucking job in passing on the real things that matter. It's not the money. It's not the beautiful house. It's. It's the, the beauty of our story and our soul journey, paving the way and lighting a path for future generations, whether it's your own or the people that you're here to impact. And this last year has been the most transformative for all three of us. We've all three dealt with really painful things and also, you know, in the same hand, the most exciting things in Our life. And to see that in word form is beautiful. So that was a long answer to what you asked. But, like, that's no.

I want all the. We want all the long answers. They're used to me being long winded. They're like, this girl just talks to herself, like, for an hour. I'm Tracy. I'll never forget that. And it's just, you know, obviously I love your daughter and she is such a gift. Like, now I just get to. To be like cool elder millennial auntie on Instagram and just like, you know, creep, creep on whatever she's cool, things she's doing. But I just feel like it is so apparent. Like, I think the thing I've struggled with a little bit and the conversations Mick and I have about, you know, stepping into parenting, we're gonna have a pretty unique journey to me carrying. And like, that's a story I haven't told anyone on here yet, but we'll talk about it at some point. But just it's going to be different. And the big thing for me that's been interesting is like, holding the identity of being a CEO and also being a mom. And I just feel like I'm constantly. Recently I've been constantly searching for and holding space for who could inspire me. Because my. My young maiden immature energy, I would say, is like, that I can't have both. And I have to give up, like, a part of me. And I feel like there's been this awareness of having women like you in my life and a lot of other women that I've just held my consciousness open to and been like, how can I hold both? Because I want to hold both. I know I meant to do that. And even though of course we're going to talk about all the other things today, I wanted to start here because I feel like whether it's women in my community who are already moms and want to understand how to lean in more, whether it be to holding both identities or they're like me, where they haven't started that journey or maybe I'm sure there's women in my community don't want to have kids. Their business is their baby. But either way, I think what you hold and what you exemplify is being such a magnificently self aware, heart open, vulnerable success. Like, you're obviously very successful, but you also are so accountable and you show up when it matters. And that is so witnessed and seen. And I haven't got to meet Joey, but I love him. I love him on Instagram, I love Him.

Yeah.

I love your kids and it's just like, you can tell so much because just it's. I can only imagine it's not easy to hold all of the things that you have to heal in the way that you have and then also, like, parent and be like, I'm here for you too. Like, I'm here for my process and I'm here for yours. So I just want to speak to that first.

Thank you. And you know, the last 15 years, I've done this journey as a single parent as well, and the sole provider emotionally, physically, spiritually, and financially in a lot of ways. And I started as an entrepreneur when they were 3 and 4 at Not My healthiest. Like, thankfully, I was able to be home and present and do it from home. But, you know, there was a lot of, like this or that. Like, when they would complain or not understand what mommy is doing. You're here, but you're not here. You know, I would do things like, you don't understand that I'm doing this for you. Like, no, their little brains don't get that. And I didn't always do it well.

And you know, the last 12 I have and you know, at a very pivotal time when they were teenagers, was really important that I held space for both. Like, yes, I'm here. I'm on a mission to make impact and make income and do all the things. And nothing is more important than you. And how I showed up in the LA in this entrepreneurial season. The last 1112 years is very different than I did the first 1112 years for sure.

I wish I had more questions on like parenting and business, but I will. And I think that that'll be a conversation in the future that you and I will have because you're just such a sage for me and for so many. And you're just. No bullshit. Like, you're so wise, but you're just. You're so real. And it's straight shooting it.

Like sometimes it might sting a little, but at least, you know, like, it always comes from love and maybe the delivery that's needed for you to get.

It 100 and I think that. So let's do this. Let's. I want to actually know and just to revisit this a little bit, a little bit of your journey with business and how the Enneagram has helped you not only maybe sprinkle in. You talked about this in the last episode so babes can go back and listen to that. But how you got into the Enneagram, but most of All I want to hear, how has the Enneagram served you and your business? Because this is something I know nothing about.

It's life changing in my business. And you know, I think with anything like we. We end up teaching what we needed to learn the most, right? And I think especially like I know that this 5.0 version of myself is what I will finish out this life doing because I've had many different careers, I've been an entrepreneur, I went to school and was hired to be a firefighter. Like I was, I was in the restaurant industry. I sold cars. Like I've done all sorts of things and all of them were really, really important. But I think this 5.0 version is me paying forward all the things I needed to learn. And now.

Because I have experienced the profound impact and transformation, that's why I'm here teaching it today at a way deeper level than is available out there. So how the Enneagram came into my life, I. It actually came into my life and I resisted it. I was kicking and screaming, wanted no part of it. Because quite honestly, I was at that moment where I realized that whatever I wasn't repairing, I was repeating and was getting repeated by my kids. And I grew up in an alcoholic home. I grew up with so much dysfunction, walking on eggshells. I mean, I had ulcers and migraines in the first grade, just to kind of like put it real for you. And I started to see my kids walking on eggshells with me and my energy. And that was the last thing I knew where this was leading them. And because I didn't know a different way. We have to know the way, go the way and show the way, you know, And I knew the way, but I wasn't going the way. And I certainly couldn't show the way because if we just know the way and then try to show the way, it's. You're full of. Quite honestly, you're not walking your talk. And kids, the people that we lead, they will do what we do, not what we say to do. And so it was that moment. My dad had just died after a 12 day cancer diagnosis. Like, I knew the tools I had in my toolbox were not going to help. They're great in crisis for temporary, like damage control, but for the long game, they were shit. And my kids were getting those tools. And so I made the decision against everyone else's freaking opinion of me, you know, every thought, like on paper I looked great, but I knew, I knew what was going on. And my generational The. The family that had been passed on and passed on. I wasn't okay with all that. I wasn't my family. I love them very, very much. They're passionate, they're intense, they're loyal, they're Irish, they're, you know, very, like all the things. Things that I am. And they're highly dysfunctional. And I didn't want to carry that legacy on, and so I didn't have role models for that. So I had to go find some and get tools in the toolbox. So I made the decision to check myself into rehab for dysfunctional relationship with alcohol, with food, with anger, with codependency, with everything but drugs. Basically, I had a coping mechanism for. And none of that was serving me well, even though I had receipts to justify why I was just fine. And everybody around me was telling me, you're great, you're doing great. But I wanted better for myself and my kids. So I checked myself into rehab and threw all the cards on the table. Like, I'm like, I know I'm here for the obvious alcohol dysfunction, but I got a whole slew of other shit that will take me out. And I just was really straight and forward. And on day two, she wanted me to do this Enneagram thing. And I told her, go herself. I'm like, I don't need another label. I'm clearly walking in here with several. I don't want another one to kind of categorize me or box me in. And she's A straight shooting enneagram8 Libra from Texas. And she was like, my dear.

Your best thinking has gotten you here, and this might actually help you get out of the box that you've put yourself in.

So I was like, well, she's got a point there, and I appreciate it. She wasn't rattled by my intensity or my bravado, which most people are. That's how I usually push people back and test them to see if they can go toe toe with me. She didn't even miss a beat. And so I still see her to this day, you know, 12 years later. But the Enneagram really allowed me to understand myself, what motivated me, what my fears were based in. And it really made doing the healing work.

Filled with a lot more compassion than there was shame. And I think when we go on a healing journey, we have all these guilt, shame, regret, unworthiness that keep us more stuck in that cycle. But now we're aware of it, which can make it worse. And the Enneagram, at least in the beginning, helped Me look at myself with a different lens, with compassion and empathy and grace instead of the whipping stick that I typically would pull out on myself and then of course project all my shit onto the world with anger and ego and bravado. And then quickly I recognized that, wow, I talk to my kids as though they're wired like me, and they completely are not. And so I started learning what they were and started speaking to it. I didn't have them take an assessment or anything. I knew what motivated each of them and just started speaking as if I knew. And I landed. It landed. And even coming out of rehab with not the greatest track record, it created trust and credibility and allowing them to feel seen, heard, understood and valued for who they were, not who mom expected them to be. Not trying to fit them into the Tracy box that I operate in. But honestly, like honoring that sweet, sensitive empath Pisces and that free spirited, visionary, excitable, shiny object chasing enneagram7capricorn that I was raising instead of this stoic, strong, as you know, Aries rigid kind of person that I was. And I saw immediately how it changed in our household. You know, of course I had recovery tools. But then six months later, because when I went into rehab, I walked away from my other career, which was like version 3 or 4.0, and took my income down to zero. And I started in a health and wellness journey in network marketing, which on paper, I'm least likely to make that happen. I had no social network at that point because I'd wiped everybody out. And I knew like, in order to be successful in that, I needed to leverage leadership and what everybody brought to the table, not just me being like the queen bee, like leading the. Being the star of the show, because that won't. That's not sustainable and that kind of business model. But how could I empower others leadership styles in a way that moves us all to the finish line? And I started using the Enneagram to develop leadership within my team and speaking to them in ways that benefited them and honored their personality, not just my intense ass. Right? And you know, that business has been going for 10 years strong. I don't actively build it anymore. But that business has gone on to create seven millionaires. And although that's exciting, what I'm most excited about is that six different Enneagram types are represented in those seven millionaires and not one is an eight like me. Which is a true testament to when you empower people for who they are and what their goals and you know, kind of understanding Their obstacles and fears. You can help them move the needle. You can help them move the needle faster in their life for their agenda and their goals and not just mine. And so it was about six years ago though, you know, that that started 10 years ago this month, that business. And it was about six years ago when I was on this other healing health journey that, you know, God kind of sidelined me a little bit because my ego was like, I'm really freaking good at this network market. I was making a of dollars a year. Like I was crushing it, crushing it. But I knew that like the soul journey was taking me somewhere else. But my ego is like, yeah, but I like this, I like this power that came with that. And it was during this time that the Enneagram started to make this trendy kind of explosion into the interwebs and social media. And it pissed me off. I didn't do it because it was trendy, I did it because it pissed me off. Kind of like you in astrology. You see, it made fun of the memes, even though I like the memes and all of that too. But because you had such a soul transformation with astrology, like I had a soul transformation with Enneagram, when I saw it being made light of, it pissed me off. And this is the beauty of being a manifesting generator and enneagram aries8 that it pissed me off enough to say like, oh no, I'm going to lead the charge in teaching people how to actually integrate this beautiful tool in their life. Not just spew information, information and quote cards that you can share on Instagram. I'm like that, like you want to know how to use this power tool in your life? I'm the one to show you. And obviously I've built another million dollar business doing that in teams at Google, Amazon, John Deere, mortgage companies, real estate brokerages, like big high level leadership teams are bringing me in to be the integrator of culture and transformation within that now with this beautiful tool. So you know, don't piss off an aries or an enneagram8 because we will come out in a manifesting generator because we will come out of the gates swinging with something that will make a massive frickin impact. And that's kind of how it started is in rehab me just kind of learning how to be compassionate and empathetic for myself and my journey so that I could go on to do this and facilitate and be that guide for other people.

Oh my God, Dave. Well, first, just like it is so there is something that came through really strongly. So I just finished reading for the second time.

That book by Brian. Not Brian Tracy Gay Hendricks, called the Big Leap.

Yeah.

And at the very end of the book, he talks about, like, how for him, his success has always been rooted because he's had a relationship to his soul and more intentional. And you touched on something so powerful because at the end of the day, it's not about like a one size fits all, whether it's parenting or projecting your stuff on others, but especially in business, it's about honoring the unique strengths of the individual. And that's something, as you know, that I'm so passionate about doing with astrology. In terms of the. The numbers or what? Like, what are they called in enneagram? Like, are they numbers? Are they types, like human?

Their types are archetypes. Because like astrology, it's not a label. It's not like, this is who I am, so deal with it. Like, there are levels of health within each of these archetypes, just like with astrology. Like an unhealthy Aries is a shit show. A healthy Aries is a very strong, powerful leader, you know?

Yeah.

So it's. I. I try to, like, explain it like this. Like, we have our intuition and our nervous system, which are the ultimate compass, this, right, because they come from some divine source. But so many of us have been dropped into situations, families, experiences, school systems, cultures, where the expression of that and the trusting of that gets bypassed. Right. And that's usually where this archetype kind of kicks in. So we live in the archetype a lot more than our intuition and nervous system, especially if we've been through some.

And working with your archetype and understanding it with compassion and empathy and grace will allow you to lean more on the intuition and nervous system. But you can't get there without understanding yourself and where you go by default. Right. What comes from the. The divine is by design, like we were uniquely and wonderfully made to be who we are, but then life and free will kind of kicks in and we end up operating by default. And so helping people understand the default system through beautiful lenses, not the judgy ones, will allow us to get back to who we were always designed to be. And, you know, again, it's not a label system, it's not a box that you're put in. But each archetype has some very unique strengths that are their superpowers, but those same freaking superpowers, just like in astrology, our superpowers as Aries is also our Kryptonite. And same thing with the Enneagram. Like my gift is this intensity, this protective nature, this, this I will take a bullet for you kind of energy. And it also had me being codependent as in a lot of ways and enabling shitty behavior and also like leaving wreckage wherever I I left. So understanding and using this understanding of my archetype where I go by default and using it and leveraging the come from. Like shifting the come from. Not like as long as it's coming from love, compassion, empathy, service and grace place. It's a hundred percent my superpower. That same thing when coming from fear, insecurity, unworthiness, shame, guilt or ego will will leave a path of wreckage everywhere I go. Right. So I don't have to change whether.

In business or personal. It's like all the same.

I could not have built that sales organization in that network marketing model if I was in that fear insecurity on where I would have, I would have blown that shit up. The reason it worked as well as it did is because 95% of the time and we're still human 95 of the time. I'm all in in that love, compassion, empathy, service and grace. But.

But is that a quality of the eight which the compassion empathy service, that's all of us.

Like, that's the come from. Like for any Enneagram type, for you to really lean into the superpowers of your archetype, you have to be at that come from. And so obviously understanding your enneagram is one thing. Raising your hand and going and acknowledging where a lot of maybe the dysfunctional stuff has been rooted. If you don't address that with compassion, you'll never be able to access the superpowers the way that you want to. You might be able to touch them, but they won't be like sustainable and they won't make the long game impact that you want to make or you'll. You'll run into imposter syndrome because you know, like, oh shit, like I can do this and I can pull this lever, but if I'm not embodying this, it's just a matter of time.

Could we look at the maybe like a strength in business and maybe even like a challenge or a gap in this for each of the types.

Yep. So let's start. You know what, we'll start with the heart center, because that's where you fall. And so when we talk about the intuition and the nervous system being the ultimate compass. Ultimate compass, where we default to is a center of intelligence. Right. And in each of the three centers of intelligence, we use all three. But wherever your core enneagram type archetype falls is where you go first. So when you bypass your intuition and your nervous system, you go to. And so does my son goes to the heart. Heart center of intelligence. And the two, the three, and the four land in that. And so when you default to the heart center, you kind of think about what has happened in the past. You go to past thinking first. That's where you go to first. You.

That's crazy. That all I do, right?

And that's why shame can be just kind of bubbling under the surface or sometimes outwardly, right? Twos kind of wear that shame more outwardly. Threes, like, you kind of get busier to kind of quiet the shame. And fours internalize that shame. But all three of you go to what has happened. Really, really important to kind of connect dots. But you guys, when you're not in the healthiest spot, use it to pull out the shame stick on yourself and. And talk yourself out of amazing shit in the world, right?

No, that's freaking Tracy. Like, you guys, just so you know, I'm a three. I probably would have already said this in the intro, but. But, dude, when you did my reading on your show, I just remember we recorded or not. I. Maybe it was just us talking. I couldn't freaking believe I'm going to be quiet. So we can go through all the types. But this system is just nuts, like, in the most beautiful way, because it's like, how in. And it's like somebody could say, oh, yeah, well, anybody could do that. That's actually, I was just in a Tony event, and he always asked, like, who looks to the past? Who gets present, who, like, focus on the future. I've done always said, like, yeah, I reference past. And I thought more people would raise their hand. It's never. It was like I was like, one of a few. Everyone raised their hand for future orientation, which I thought was interesting. But anyways, the fact that you just touched on that, and that is something that fully can trip me up. I was just talking about that two days ago, about how when I orient and reference the past, it's like, like, been something that I've used against myself.

It's why you're a beautiful healer, because you're not afraid to go to the past with people. But it's also where you can be tripped up, right? Like, you're able to connect dots. It's why twos, you know, they're motor like, all Three of these types are motivated by a form of significance. And that's really important. Tony Robbins. One of the six basic human needs is a need for significance. It's not a bad thing. It doesn't mean you're selfish or self absorbed or any of those things that twos, threes and fours tend to label themselves with. Now twos, their superpower, they're motivated. So the cool thing about this is knowing that each of the types are motivated by one main thing. And when you know what you're motivated by, it's easier to troubleshoot when you're going down the shit show, right? So excuse me, I'm gonna cough a second, you guys.

Tracy is getting over bronchitis and I was like, babe, we can totally reschedule. She's like, oh no, we are doing this.

Okay, so twos, their significance, like two, threes and fours, all need significance as their main motivator. But how it looks for each of them is very different. Twos, their superpower is knowing what situations call for without words being said. They can see what people and things need without words being said. Now that's really good. In business, they're con the connectors relationship. They make people feel cared for. When that's healthy, that's a really good thing. But you can imagine if you're a two and you're motivated by being significant, especially in what you do for other people, you can create the self abandonment, this codependency needing external validation, you'll over yes yourself to that you don't want to do for kind of this dopamine hit of feeling loved and appreciated, right? They're, they're the most masterful connectors and relationship people on the enneagram. My son is the two. And so having healthy boundaries and asking yourself like, am I doing this because I want to feel loved and appreciated or am I really doing this because I genuinely want to serve with no expectations? So if you're a two, like asking yourself if it wasn't love or if it wasn't appreciated, acknowledged, thanked or reciprocated, would you still say yes to it? And a lot of twos would be like, no. So that's kind of recognizing that sometimes you'll give to get something in return. And most of the time you come by it innocently and super subconsciously. But the real sweet spot for a 2 is understanding that there were worth and their significance isn't necessarily external, that they have this gift within them. But it can be really challenging because the outside world really reinforces that dysfunction in it too. Now, for you as a three, your significance looks. Need for significance looks a little bit different for threes. It's what they do, what they achieve, and how they appear in the world, right? So chasing the shiny objects, like, picking things that you're good at because you know you can win, being the very best, best. And then the world reinforces that, because when you do really good, you get the atta girls and the atta boys, and it's like, yeah, I want more of that, more of that, more of that. But so often a 3 will get to a finish line and feel like no fulfillment. They'll look around, they're alone. And that doesn't always feel good. It's like, yeah, I crossed the finish line first, but, like, there's nobody here to enjoy this with me. And so your great pace cars in business, like, when Covid hit, like, nobody pivoted better than a three. Like, seriously, threes and sevens figured out.

True.

You did, because you're very resourceful. You don't get caught in the feels. Even though you are a feeling person, you don't get. You don't let it slow you down. So your amazing pace cars, you create what's possible for all of us, and you inspire us to kind of step it up a notch. We all want to be like a three, trust me. But there is a dark side to that that, you know, I think that threes are very misunderstood, that everything comes easy to you, and you do make it look really easy, and that's the image you want to keep. But when you. You can imagine if you're motivated by being the best and you fall short, there's no gray area. So if you're not first, you're last. You know, Ricky Bobby from Talladega Nights said it, that it's a very big deal if you're not shining. And the sweet spot for a three is recognizing that they're amazing and significant, not because of the finish lines they cross first or anything that's measurable. So I usually will tell three things. Threes, things that they're amazing at that aren't measurable, and they don't always like it because you do things that are measurable, because that's how you feel significant.

And, oh, my gosh, yeah, Tracy calls me out.

I just love you because you're more than what you do. And even though you are the shining light in the world, that isn't why you're amazing. You're amazing because you're here, and you're just a soulful stuff that nobody ever sees is why you're amazing. So one of the things threes can get into trouble in business and leadership is leaving people in their dust.

Threes, genuinely, because they have a two wing, which we won't even get into that today, but they have other tools accessible to them that let them see that, hey, if I, I. If I become more of a people person, we can cross the finish line faster. And although that's true, a lot of times people believe that, like, you love them at a deeper level. And then when you get to the finish line, you're, like, cool, I'm on to the next thing. And people that aren't threes can feel like they were just a pawn in the prize that you were seeking. So something really important as a three, to recognize that, you know, most of the people that you're working alongside maybe have a little more empathy than you might naturally. And although getting to the finish line is really amazing, it's a lot more fun when we do it together for all the genuine right reasons, rather than just to finish first.

Damn. You know what? I will just speak into this really quick, and then I'll stop being an Aries and make.

No.

I love that you think this is about me. I think that a huge breakthrough that I had. I remember one time when I really started to recognize. Of course, I didn't know about the Enneagram, but I literally was like, it's funny. I have a lot of breakthroughs in the bathroom. Like, when I'm in the shower and I'm just, like, getting out, and I'm. I don't know. I have this, like, quiet moment, and I literally had to run into my office, grab a piece of paper, and I literally wrote something down. Like, it's about who you're serving and not how fast you go. It was something like that. And it was like. Like. Because I really. My intuition was, like, coming to me and being like, where are you going so fast? And, like, why? And that's a lot of, like, that's a big thing. And when you talk to me more about the three, that was a huge thing that came forward. I wonder if I have lots of threes in my community. Do you ever find that people are, like, maybe drawn to their Enneagram, or do they. Do people usually crave more variation or. I will say this from others.

I will say this. The pattern that I see is, if you aren't the healthiest version of your archetype, you attract a lot of people like you when you embody the full scope of the architecture because you're more than just your type. There's a lot of moving parts in this. The healthiest version of yourself attracts a wider range of people you can impact. Like, 12 years ago, I would have only been able to lead type A assertive, aggressive people. But the healthier I get, the more I attract the empaths, the analytical people, the introverts, the like. But when I was in more of that type A energy, of course I attracted more of that. My guess. And knowing who listens to you, you do cover a wide scope of people, and that's a good thing.

Beautiful.

And all healthy types work well with all all other healthy types. Like, I get asked a lot. Yeah, like, honestly, the best version of yourself can work alongside and be married to or in love with any other healthy type.

It's.

It's, you know, but when we're dysfunctional, when I was dysfunctional, man, did I attract the same kind of dysfunction I was.

Us.

Like, you know, but the real. The real cool part is when we can.

Lead anyone, but we can't do that unless we know how to compassionately, effectively lead ourselves. And that's why the Enneagram is a powerful tool. Okay, so back to the. The archetypes and their gifts. Fours. They're the creative, the intense creative. Again, driven by significance. But theirs is an internal job. They're constantly seeking what makes them unique and authentic. So a lot of times we'll see them quit before a miracle happens because they're all in their feels. And the second they look up to the rest of the world or Instagram, they start comparing themselves and they think something's missing in them. Envy. Not jealousy, but envy. Like, wow, this person has something I don't. And that's why they switch it up so frequently that their gifts don't get created. John Mayer is a very famous for, like, songwriters, artists, fashionistas, foodies, you know, anybody that is always looking for that unique part of them. Robin Williams was also an Enneagram for. You can see also how they're in their unique gift, but they're so tortured sometimes that they feel like nobody understands them. Their biggest fear is abandonment. And so a lot of times they'll morph into whatever, but they don't ever tap into who their unique self is. Where gifted, though, is marketing, creative, anything. Like, they're the emotional being of the Enneagram Archetypes. Like, they can hold space. It's. I'm dating a 4, and he is not remotely rattled. Not even a Little bit by my intensity. He's like, wow, this is kind of. This kind of great. So fours, like, can hold space, but they're so empathetic that they can actually take it on if they don't know how to kind of cut the cord or have energetic boundaries. And that can take them out. I mean, they take on all the feelings of all the things, and it's where they're really good, but will also be the. The death of them. They can be very moody and dramatic, and so they're probably the most misunderstood on the Enneagram. Honestly, there's not one four that's alike. They're the most mistyped on the Enneagram because they're always changing it up. And so a lot of times, force can be a bit much for people. And then it kicks in. Their fear of abandonment, because it's a lot, lot, because they can feel the full scope of the human emotions in five seconds. And it's all very real. That's their gift and also their downfall because it's a lot for a lot of people. I kind of like it, but I was raised with a four, and now I'm dating a four. I'm like, seriously, okay.

But again, they look to what has happened. And that shame spiral for a four is dark. Very, very dark. They're probably the most prone to depression, too.

So. And when they're in that, they can't.

Create anything, which keeps you 3, 2, 3, and 4. You said the realm of the heart.

So they make decisions, process, communicate based on feelings.

Interesting.

And usually feelings that they have. Evidence from the past, like, what has happened, how do I need to operate moving forward, how did I feel last time this happened? Things like that. Now, for the 5, 6, and 7 who are in the thinking center, right? So when they default out of their intuition and their nervous system, they go to what could happen, Right? What could happen. That's what makes them great visionaries and innovators. Like, honestly, it's amazing. Casey, my daughter, what could happen? Now, that can create a anxiety tornado and fear tornado as well. But it's why they think so outside the box, because what could happen? What could happen? Fives. And all three of these types need certainty. It's why they're great troubleshooters, great visionaries, great collaborators, because they're thinking so far ahead. And their need for certainty is the root of all this. This and. And what that certainty looks like. For a 5, a 6, and 7 is very different. For a 5, their certainty comes in knowledge, wisdom, being prepared, and Energy resource like resources. So they're the most introverted on the Enneagram. They're the most analytical. They have the ability to detach emotionally and. And be very bullet pointed. It's what makes them very smart and, and not bringing emotions into it. That's also their downfall is they can be very cold, direct.

A lot of times they'll hoard their wisdom and resources because they're afraid of being depleted of that. Like more is better. So they can go down the black hole of, you know, Google and YouTube for days and days and days because they think more is better to have more certainty that they're equipped with information and resources. But they're really great. Like, like, you know our friend Lizzie, she's a five. Like I think everybody having fives that are skilled in one thing, they're, they're excellent. And the go to person like phone a friend. You want a five that's excellent at something. Lizzie will always be my phone a friend when it comes to money and finance. Like seriously, she's brilliant and it's her zone fives when they pick a zone another Aries.

Lizzie's an Aries I know.

Exactly. So like nobody better. But also they can be a little intellectually arrogant and can be. Can talk above people and it can make us feel less than so something as a five to be be very mindful of. Now your architecture allows you to lean into some of these other qualities that make you more emotional and compassionate. But it's not a natural go to for a five. But it's why they're very smart and straight. Great. Now for Sixes, their need for certainty is to not get blindsided. They. They're always thinking worst case scenario, which is what makes them the best troubleshooters and collaborators on the Enneagram and for business. That's amazing. Especially when you have somebody like me or you that we're like, we'll ask for forgiveness later. We'll just kind of go in hot.

Right.

Whereas Sixes are like, well, wait a second. Have you thought about this? Have you thought about this? If you do this, this could happen. You and I don't always sounds like Capricornian. It is very Capricorny. You know, and thankfully you and I have enough of that in our rising. Yeah, but it's not a natural go to for us typically. But for Sixes, that is their gift. They have Worst case scenario 10 different ways put on a spreadsheet and all the things that need to happen in order for the worst case scenario not to Happen now. That's really great. But also they can feel like I've been in relationships with six, like friends. Like, like, you don't trust me. It makes me feel untrusted. Or like I'm not strong and I don't have things handled. Or they can become so paralyzed with the worst case scenario that they don't take action. And so it can create this unhealthy dynamic within a team if you're not careful. Because it's like, well, well, if you don't trust me, this I'm out. Especially with somebody like me. But why they're really good collaborators too is they like working with a group mainly because they want to make sure everybody's doing what they're supposed to be doing so that they don't get blindsided. So it's really, really great. But they have to kind of. They have to kind of forward, like front load. Like, hey, I'm gonna. I have lots. They have lots of questions. And before I understood this, like, if somebody starts interrogating me, they're gonna get the spicy side of my Aries. 8.

Aries don't like inject not. I don't know if this is a three thing, but we don't love to be. Mick kind of does that where he needs lots. And I've just pinned it to like Earth signs because I find that that Earth equality wants the facts. And if I'm ever in a rush moment, I'll want to push. But so Sixes kind of to me, because we did this in our last episode that it sounds like it's got that Capricorn quality.

Capricorn Virgo kind of vibes for sure.

And the Five is sounding kind of like cardinal energy, Libra in quality, other things for sure. But obviously Lizzy is a Aries. But this is super fascinating when I can hear the little things of like how it ties to.

Yeah.

How it ties to astrology.

So how a 6 can be more effective in leadership and business is when they have a lot of questions. Say, listen, I know I'm gonna fire hose you with questions. I promise you has nothing to do with my trust in you or what I think your abilities are. But for me to feel certain and to be all systems go with you. I just have some questions. The more certainty you can give me, the more all in I am. But Sixes don't always articulate that and instead they come across as like. Like super pain in the ass, quite honestly, when they are fire hosing you with questions. And I don't like it and I'm out, typically, unless they. And well, now I know. So I can kind of do that. Now, Sevens, which is our sweet Casey, they need certainty that all options are available to them at all times. Very different kind of certainty, but it's still certainty. So, like, when I'm talking to a seven, I don't have to necessarily reframe the tone or the timing of things, but I do have to be very mindful of the language I use, because if I use language that makes them feel boxed in or restricted, I lose them. So with Case, like, you know, I can see very clearly what she could be doing, but I can't frame it in a way that makes her feel like she doesn't have choices.

I don't have to, like, dim it down, my intensity. She doesn't care about that. But. But the language will be really important. Steve jobs was an enneagram7, so when he went into Macintosh, was like, I think we could do this and this and this. And they're like, yeah, not so much cute. Go away. And so what did he do? He's like, fuck this, I'm leaving. And he took, you know, Steve Wozniak and went and innovated and created Apple. That's the epitome of doing something to A seven that makes them feel boxed in. They will either rebel in a really unhealthy way, which he had a lot of unhealthy tendencies, obviously, but they also can create magical things. Now they want to do all the things, and so sometimes them crossing a finish line can be a little challenging. So how I'll usually tell a 7 and empower them is like, you're going to, like, especially when Case is telling me all the things she's going to do, I'm like, oh, my God, there's no freaking way right now. Like, she's got to do this, she's got to do this, she got to do this. But I don't ever say that because then she doesn't feel like, like, I trust her, I respect her, I. I know her. And I'm like, baby, you're going to do all of it. All of it. No doubt about it. Which one do you want to do right now?

Let's. Let's do one of them first. Which one is it? But you're going to totally do all of it, no problem, you know, so really. And Sevens aren't always taken seriously because they don't always focus. They don't have an attention to details. They're visionaries. So surrounding yourself if you're a seven, surrounding yourself with the right people will be very important. But a lot of sevens only surround themselves with people like them that are fun and exciting and then nobody gets shit done. So surrounding yourself with the right people, but you also have in your architecture as a seven, the ability to focus on one thing at a time. But it's not a natural go to for a seven. So it that one takes work now that forward thinking, the what could happen obviously can trip up all three of these to where they become paralyzed. Because when we're overwhelmed or in fear and in anxiety, like it can paralyze you. And so having grounding things to get you back into your intuition and your nervous system will be really, really important. Now the final center of intelligence is the instinctual or gut one. This is where I fall. The eights, the nines and ones fall here.

And why is it that. Can I just interrupt? That is interesting to me. Why not that this is even important. This is what people ask me in astrology and I'm like y', all those dots and lines do not matter to you at this moment. But that's really interesting. Why does it go 8, 9, 1. I was wondering if one was even a type.

Yeah, the, the three at the top, the eight, the nine and one. We're at the top and we're in the what is happening right now? It's why I'm so great in crisis. It's why I'm also a wrecking ball in crisis sometimes, you know. But my first go to is what is happening right now? What is happening right now? Really, really important in crisis. Really, really important in survival and fight or flight. Like really, really important. Because when the feelers are all and what has happened, it's like. But that has already happened what's happening right now, right? And also like the futuristic thinkers like what could happen? I'm like, what is. What is right under your feet right now?

Now?

Where are you right now? Now there's. There's some downfalls into being an instinctual. What is happening right now is like, I don't think far enough ahead and create some problems or you know, I repeat patterns because I didn't look and connect the dots, right? And we do use all three of our centers of intelligence, which is. Which is a conversation for another day on how the Enneagram comes into that. But for the eights, nines and ones, the what is happening right now is motivated by this need for independence, autonomy, truth.

And whatever that looks like. Now for all three of these like the other centers, how an eight goes about it, how a nine goes about it, how one goes about could not be more different. So an eight is motivated by independence and autonomy to never have to rely on anyone. Because I'm motivated by being strong, period. And there's not a lot of gray area. And because I grew up in a home where I was taught, told and modeled what strong was in a very dysfunctional way, it's why I was in that big, big type a masculine energy all the time. So I had to kind of recalibrate what strong looks like. I'm still motivated by being strong. But now today I know vulnerability is my strength. Where my whole life that was weak, right? And so how we go about eights go about independence and autonomy is by being strong and exerting kind of that, that ego. And the underlying emotion for all three of these types is anger. And it's why a lot of people are mistyped as eight. Because behaviorally you can look very eight, but you're not. So.

Yeah, but this need to be strong really, like we want connection and we want to be able to rely on people. But because we always prove to be the strongest person in the room, a lot of times most people think they couldn't hold space for us and so they quit trying. Or they're like, wow, I could never be that strong. And it makes people feel uncomfortable. So they leave us. Right? And that more reinforces. See, can't rely on anyone. And so it can be very lonely for an 8. We so desperately want somebody to be able to trust. But we've got our own kind of walls up that we can only break down through vulnerability. And thankfully I've been able to do a lot of that and recognize that for nines, their independence and autonomy comes from creating harmony internally and in their environment. The problem with them being an instinctual being is that what is happening right now, a lot of times they will settle for short term harmony by sweeping it under the rug and creating long time disharmony in their lives and in their situation. It's like they're so fixated on what is happening now that they just want any kind of conflict to stop. Where like the divine energy, I believe is an enneagram 9 archetype, right? The ability to make us all feel included and what's the greatest good for us all. But if they don't use their other centers of intelligence and they're just focusing on right now, they're sweeping so much under the rug that it creates more conflict later. And when that happens to a nine, they shut down. And that anger, whereas an eight is more explosive with the anger. That nine is this passive aggressive, energetic kind of selectively stubborn, selectively hearing things, selectively forgetting things. That's how they express their anger. And they're, they're kind of not being controlled by anything.

But they make people feel safe, non judged included. That's their gift. Whereas the eights, they make people feel protected and like, damn, if anything goes sideways, you want an 8, especially a healthy one. Like it's why like people do feel really safe with me and because it's coming from a loving, compassionate place. Like I have always said, if you ever need a body buried like I am your person and I won't get caught. So there's that.

And finally I feel like that's really.

Important in business too is like leadership. Because that is like the quality of leadership.

Like if you think about Martin Luther King or Mother Teresa, eights great world class leaders. Now regardless of what we think about politics, Donald Trump is also an 8. Not the most emotionally intelligent guy, regardless of how smart he is. Business sense, emotionally intelligent, not so much, right? So you can see, you know, both sides of the coin in that still world leaders, right? Nines like Jesus probably was a 9 on the enneagram, obviously looking for the greatest good of us all and harmony and peace and love and all the things. Then there's unhealthy nines that just like I have no opinion, I have no voice, I want temporary harmony, peace out. And then there's the Enneagram ones who find independence and autonomy by being righteous, right? So they are good, bad, right or wrong, no gray area. And where that's really, really great in business is they're impeccable with their word. They are high integrity. They do what they say they're going to do and they do it meticulously. The problem is, is they judge all of us that don't operate like that. And they can be very critical and energetic like vampires and stuff and very judgy and pretentious and arrogant in that righteous, they can become self righteous, which is a very big turnoff. And then we don't get to experience their gifts. But this need for independence and control comes from this black and white thinking. It's what makes them really good at high integrity and high standards, but also makes them not real warm and fuzzy and want people avoid them when they're like that. But they're the greatest teachers, honestly. Brene Brown is an Enneagram one. One of the Best teachers of all time, honestly. And she is very righteous. Not always like I can see elements. And she, she's somebody who's been through recovery too. I think she has like 25 years of recovery under her belt. I can see when she gets a little high and mighty. Not judging her. I love her like one of my greatest teachers, but I can tell when she's getting a little enneagram one self righteous kind of coming at her. You know, I mean she's excellent at what she does and well respected. But I'm sure there were times in her life that people are like Jesus, I can't, I can't hold a candle to those standards. So I'm just going to do the duck out here. Which is what happens when, when a one is so rigid that if people don't feel like they could ever live up to the expectation that a one operates not just for themselves but expect for the rest of us, we avoid them and we, we leave. So for one to understand that we're all human and there is a lot of gray area and how to lean into and like don't sweat the small stuff so much. That is when your best teaching and best guiding and mentorship can happen. But that's not a natural go to for a one because imagine like everything about independence and control comes by being righteous. Righteous. And to them there's not that gray area that comes naturally. So they have to really learn and lean into recalibrating what righteousness looks like. So that's all the archetypes basically in a nutshell on how they can excel and also kind of where they get tripped up.

Bab. That is. This is so freaking fascinating you guys. How are you feeling? Because honestly it's just, just like astrology, just like human design. Such a perfect system. Like it's just really clarifying and it's fascinating how it all fits together. Okay, my last question because I know I'm keeping you way over but good. I would, I would say like in terms of.

I feel like the conversation of leadership has been coming up with like so much lately and that's really been something that I've explored like really over the last couple of years of like the importance of leadership as well as empathy in business. And I feel like you really touched on this with all of the, all of the types, but I suppose, and I don't want you to go through every single one again. But is there something with, with the types that when it comes to leadership and leading uniquely, is there something that they could lean in if it was like the fortune cookie version of just like, keep this in mind, Keep this in mind, Keep this in mind.

Well, just like you talk about astrology and any tool, even the frickin Bible, is a tool and it's the intent of the use of the tool. And so like even in leadership, if you're going to use the Enneagram, astrology, the damn Bible, whatever, like your intent has to be pure and for the greatest good, not just of what's in it for you. That's not leadership, that's dictatorship. And when you are leading people, you have to lead what's in it for them. And when we do that, that Zig Ziglar says it best. When you help enough people get what they want, you will inevitably get what you want. And sometimes that looks how you never expect it, right? So whatever tool you use to grow yourself and you feel the effect of it. A lot of times we feel the effect of astrology, human design, Enneagram, and we want everybody to understand it and so we will shove it down people's throats.

And that will kind of not want them to participate. So be very delicate, be very curious. That is my number one thing. Whether I'm talking to my kids, people I'm leading, the person checking out my groceries at the grocery store, I'm always curious about what makes that person tick because I want to be a better human. And the more that you kind of operate with every human in business leadership, being curious about who they are, what motivates them, what they're most afraid of, you will intuitively know how to lead them. And when you have tools like astrology, human design and Enneagram, it's a beautiful system and framework that you can kind of operate from that makes it simplified, easier. But it all comes from your come from the, the, the tool is only as beautiful as your intent behind using it.

It.

Had I been introduced to the enneagram 15 years ago, I would have used it to manipulate, no question about it. And that's why I'm glad I didn't have it sooner. So I will always say that like in leadership, to be the most effective leader, you have to be able to most effectively, compassionately lead yourself first, honestly. But be curious about humans and, and figure out how you can lead and empower and guide them in a way that suits them best best. You can have the same end goal. Like a lot of times with people when they come to me and they're like, I need help with this, I need help with this. Whether it's business, personal, both. I take a holistic approach. I know what the end zone is and I know how we're going to get there. But I craft what that looks like unique to them because how I go about it is very different than how you'll go about it or Joey or Casey or any of my other clients. But I'm so curious about them that. And. And when you're more curious, you build credibility and trust. There's nothing worse than knowing somebody has their own agenda and their own kind of way that they want to get you there. If they haven't taken the time to understand you, run, run from them. And if you're a leader that kind of operates like that, you probably need Natalia more in your life and me more in your life to kind of help you build that muscle where you become more curious and you can be significant and also be. Be curious and caring about other people. You can be certain and be curious and caring. And I can be in control and still be curious and compassionate. Right?

God, I love that babe. I feel like my. My biggest takeaway from that is like being curious about others and not seeking to lead them just in the way that works for you, but mostly what works for them. And that is just such a beautiful way to complete this very powerful conversation. And I'm just so grateful. I feel like when people ask me about astrology and I have to run through the whole chart, I'm just like, it's boggles my brain at the end. And I'm like, I need to go eat lunch. So I'm so grateful that you brought that to us because it's just so interesting and just helping us learn about ourselves, both our strengths, but also where we can get tripped up and how we can utilize that awareness to help us move forward. Because in business you get a mirror almost all of the time of where you are allowing your psychology or what kind of unconsciously motivates you to get in the way.

Last week I was at the mastermind that we met in and I was like, right from the get go, I was like, listen, I know you're going to fire hose me with tons of great ideas like threes do. And that's your gift, and I want you to know that. But as you do that, there are things that I'm going to feel really insecure about. And my energetic walls are coming up. Please don't be afraid to kick them down. And me knowing that, like anything that makes me feel weak, my ego kind of takes over. My walls take over but by. By knowing that ahead of time and not being emotionally charged by it, like, that's the beauty in this is. It is what it is. Like, that will always be my blind spot, my weakness. I know it. It's not because I'm an asshole or a bad person. It's my makeup. It is where I go to, to feel, feel safe, in control. But it doesn't serve me when I want to make impact in the world. So letting the people that I trust.

To love me, to lead me, to guide me, to walk beside me when I let them know, like, this is what's going to happen when you start this. And I don't want it to be that way, but that's where I'm going to go. Just know it might feel scary, it might feel like I've cut you off, but I promise you, I want to be pushed. But be gentle with me. Be gentle with me. Even though I'm tough and, you know, strong and all those things, I'm still human. And for me to be able to say that, like, is such growth, and I get support and I get the right people in my life that way. It's why you're in my life. I trust you with my life because I can't be vulnerable like that today. And that's the beauty and gift when we take the emotional charge of judgment on ourselves and we put away the shame stick and wrap us in the cloak of empathy, love, and in compassion and grace. And that's when we can do our best work in the world, period.

Stacy, I love you so much. I'm so honored that I got to bring you back for a second time on the pod. And where can my beautiful babes find you? Work with you. We'll have your links in the show.

Notes so you can find me on the gram at Tracy underscore O'. Malley. You can go to my website, Tracy O' Malley.com I do have a podcast called Lead with the Enneagram. Over 300 plus episodes of leadership Using the Tool of the Enneagram and Beyond. Obviously, it's just a tool. There's a lot more to what I do than just that tool. But it's. It's my leader for sure because it's a beautiful framework that we all can understand and it's common, common language, just like astrology. Right?

Right.

But if you're curious about your Enneagram type, please don't go and take one of those online assessments that are free or cheap. They're inaccurate. 65 to 70% of the time. If you're like listening and you're like, I want to understand this tool, I offer an assessment that is over 95% accurate. I've tested it thousands and thousands of times. And it's true. And you'll also get a customized blueprint. Kind of like Erin, your human design friend. She does the blueprints for human design. I do blueprints for the Enneagram with basically your soul handbook to understand yourself through the lens of the Enneagram. So it's worth, worth every bit. If you want to use this tool in your life to have the right information, and I can give that to you, go find me. I'd love to hear any of your thoughts or feelings about all this.

We love you, Tracy. Thank you, babe.

Love you too.

Love you guys.

Bye, guys.

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