The Power of the Enneagram, Softness, and Transformation with Tracy O’Malley

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Welcome to becoming you. I'm Rebecca Caffiero, your go to girl for business and life strategies with a side of woo. I'm a former corporate exec turned business and lifestyle strategist, TEDx speaker, bestselling author, and mom of two. This podcast is all about empowering driven women to align with their deepest desires and create the life they've always dreamed of. And before we dive in, go grab my balance blueprint. It's the game plan you need to help you reduce stress and bring more joy into your daily routine. Just click the link in the show notes to get yours today. Now let's get into this week's episode.

I think this is your third or fourth episode on becoming you.

Look at that.

But first one in person. So it's totally a new.

This is way better.

So much better.

Way better.

And then we get to go have dinner and you're my forever roomie.

Yeah. Slumber party.

Exactly. So you're not. Well, in case there is new listeners.

Yeah.

Give a little background on who you are.

Oh, geez, you're gonna make me do that.

We're gonna cry, we're gonna laugh. All the things.

Which part of the story do you want them to hear?

So I met you over 10 years ago. Over 10 years ago. And I share this with you. I met Tracy right when I met you right when I entered into the world of network marketing. Literally the first event ever. And you got into an elevator with me. And I was like, whoa. Here I was coming out of corporate. I was always trying to dress older, and you were wearing, like, leather pants. I think you were not unlike you are now in all black.

It's a very on brand still.

And I was like, who is this lady with great hair? I thought you were a hairdresser, actually. And then you walked on stage and got a huge check. And I was like, oh, my God. Okay, People can make a lot of money here too. And I think the great thing is I got to meet you and get to know you before. Like, before I knew you from the outside.

Right.

Because had I not, I probably would have been really scared of you. Because I love you and you still scare me, but only a little bit.

It seems like four lifetimes ago that that was, you know, our meeting because so much life has happened. You've had two babies. I've evolved a few times in business. And, you know, although I knew that that was a powerful time in my life, I also knew it was like the training wheels and the. The prep for what was to come. I knew it the minute I started it because on paper, like, I was least likely to succeed in that. But I was like, I'm going to kind of just see what happens here. If I just say fuck it and go all in for a short period of time and practice some of the things that I already knew were in me. And that came so, so ridiculously easy to me. Which is hilarious because on paper, like I said, I'm least likely to do something like that. And here we are. Like, you know, all that part of my life was really important because I met some incredible people because of that. And. And I got to practice a lot of cool shit that. Undercover. Yeah.

In stealth mode.

Absolutely. Very stealthy. Under the radar, like a good enneagram8 does. Like, I'm not going to show you all my cards.

So if people can't tell, we're going to be talking a lot about the Enneagram, but we're going to do it through the way that I like to share, which is. Which is stories. That time there was something that happened right before your time in network marketing, which is where you met the Enneagram. And I know I've heard this story so many times, but it still makes me emotional, especially if you're willing to share. Like, yeah, that moment the day or two before you decided to make a change for your life and what happened with your son.

Yeah, it was kind of like this perfect storm in my life. Like on the outside looking in. And on paper, I actually looked like I had all of my shit together. You know, I was a single parent, never expecting to kind of be there. The sole provider, emotionally, physically, spiritually and financially of two young teenagers in a career that I thrived in. However, my soul hated every minute of it. It was a very male dominated, aggressive. You know, again, the enneagram 8 in me just freaking loved it. Like, put on the armor and like, let's fucking go, you know? But my soul really didn't like it. And then there was like this summer where it kind of all came to a head. I was in a dysfunctional relationship. I couldn't outrun, outwit, out, you know, strategize. Yeah, out strategize what I grew up with. You know, those coping mechanisms started to kind of bubble up to the surface as, you know, more dysfunction was going on in my life. And then without warning, I get a call and my dad was diagnosed with cancer. And 12 days later, he was gone. And I just turned 40. And I was like, this. This can't be what Life is like, there's more. I know I have more in me. I know that I am absolutely not living up to my potential. I've known since I was a little girl that I was meant to do some big things. Not necessarily like make shit tons of money, even though I like that too. But I knew I was here for impact. I did from the time I was little. And you know, when that happened with my dad, I turned and looked at my kids and you know, if you don't repair it, you repeat it or it gets repeated. And my dad and my history was living proof of that because I never, I loved my dad. I was super inspired by him. I learned so much from him and I did not want to be like him. And there were very distinct things that I was very similar to him. And then after my dad died, I turned to look at my two teenagers and I started to see history repeating itself. And I understand why this generational shit goes on. And I knew that they're going to do what I do, not what I say to do. And I am repeating exactly what was done. So I have to learn a different way in order to know, go and show a different way. If I really want my kids to have a different kind of history than I have lived, I have to go first. And so I made the really bold decision that nobody thought was smart. Everybody was like, are you crazy? Like, you're not that bad. That's cue to get new people in your circle. You know, if they're telling you you're not that bad as you're trying to improve your life, it means they're really uncomfortable with the up level you're about to do. And I was like, I don't fucking care. Like this standard of living is not okay for me or my lineage and my beautiful kids. And so I made the hard decision to check myself into rehab. Before I did that, I walked into where I was working. It was my only two year, like stint in corporate America. Said, I'm leaving now. I'm not gonna say anything to anyone else. I'm just gonna pack up my stuff while everybody's at lunch and I'm gonna go and check myself into rehab. But before I did, before I sat the kids down and I said, listen, this is what's gonna happen. I want a different path for you, one that I haven't seen myself. And so I need to go find what that is so I can show you the way and so you can feel really good about it. And you know, there had been some stuff going On. And my son, you know, he was 14 at the time. He looked at me, he's like, mom, I'll give you up 30 days to have you the rest of our life. And I said, I promise things will be different. Things will be different when I get back. I don't know how, but I know why, and you guys are why. And so I was in rehab on day two, and again, looking around the room, you know, I was in a house with 14 people. And my therapist had stood up at the time and was giving us the grim statistics about recovery and that only 2% really make it. And of course, you know me in my head, a numbers girl. I start doing the math. And I hadn't said anything, really, to anybody in the first two days. You know, it's not. Not the glorious moment. It's a very humbling moment when you actually step foot into a place like that. And I stood up and introduced myself, and I said, and I apologize to all of you because none of you are going to make it, because I'm the 2%. And it was at that time that that same therapist was assigned to me, and she's also an enneagram 8. And she was like, I want you to take this thing. And I was like, what is this thing? And it was the Enneagram. And I was like, respectfully, go fuck yourself. I don't need another label. I'm walking in here with a few, you know, alcohol, codependency, food stuff, anger, you name it. Like, I got a label for it. I don't need another one. And she didn't miss a beat. And she's like, my dear, your best thinking has gotten you here. And this might help you get out of the box that not only has the world put you in and your family put you in, but you've put yourself in. So how about you open up your mind a little bit and. And see what this can do for you. I was like, well, touche. You got a point. All right, Nance, I'm in. And that's how I was introduced to the Enneagram.

Before we kicking and screaming and screaming, before we dive into. I just want to say you are my role model as a mother, you know? And what's so beautiful is, like, you're. You were at a place, like a crossroads with your children that, had it not corrected, it could have been a really undesirable outcome.

I've said this several times to them, and, like, to you, even, like, it was this defining moment. I could feel like I was at the fork in the road. And if I didn't make some changes, we would have been okay. However, I would not have the deep, intimate relationship I have with both of them individually and them together. My daughter probably would have hightailed it out of Arizona where we live and been some free spirited gypsy, which would have been fine, but it would. It would have been to run away from me, my son probably, if I hadn't made some changes, been in addiction himself in a way that absolutely would not be serving him. And he's, you know, my sweet, sensitive Enneagram too. And I only know where that could go for him. So it was very humbling, but also like the best gift I've ever given them. Our life would look very, very different without that decision. Emotionally, not just like the way things have turned out. But I am a solid force. A solid, soft, loving, compassionate, empathetic kind for passionate. And you know, I'll cut a pitch too.

Yeah. So we're going to talk about the Enneagram, the blueprint. We're going to talk about the softness. As someone who knows the hard path really well and knows how to fight. And I, I mean I was, I was sharing with another friend today. I'm like, man, if I'm going into battle spiritually, physically, emotionally, logistically, like you are the woman I want by my side to fight. Not to just the death of this life, but like the death of this, like every, every life. And yet you also ability to see and hold space in such a vast, soft, empowering way. And I tell people like, literally what I said today is, I said, Tracy has a wild talent. It's not even, it's not even a talent. You have a knowing and a magic. And yes, you use the Enneagram blueprint. And because that's what people can understand. And especially when you're going to corporate, we're like, we don't need to tell them all the things that you are gifted with. And if you were doing it for non pure purposes, gosh, you'd be so freaking scary.

Well, when I am talking about the Enneagram and they feel the power of it and the magic of it, they're like, God, I wish I had known about this sooner. I'm like, me too. However, like to what you said, knowing where I was in my life before me, with this kind of tool in my hands, I would have weaponized it. I would have used it to control. It's just like any tool, you know, it's the intent and the integrity in which you use It. And so it was by only divine appointment that this dropped into my life and part of my wizardry. Now, when it did.

Did you ever see Teen Witch? It was in like an 80s movie.

No.

Oh, my gosh.

So I. I was watching Dukes of Hazzard.

Okay, well, you know, so Teen Witch. And when she was 16, she got her witchy power.

Sabrina, the Teenage Witch.

No, no, no. This was like. This was like a full length movie long before what's. Whatever her name is. But she got it at 16. And the one that told her, she's like, listen, you're gonna get these powers. If you use them for evil, you'll lose them by 18. If you use them for selfish purposes, not evil, but just for yourself, you lose them by 40. If you use them for good, you'll have them forever. And you use them for good. And that's what I said is, is. And so before we dive into the enneagram and femininity, because you are looking at the enneagram or utilizing the enneagram and helping people through a totally different slant now.

Yeah.

In this, this phase that you're in, I just want to say, like, the three ways you've impacted me as a mother, I'm going to try not to cry. All right, so number one is watching the relationship you have with your children and seeing that, you know, they were teenagers. Like, when I screw up with my children at 5 and 8, like, it's not too late.

Never too late.

You know, we're always going to injure, but it's about the repair.

Always.

It's so beautiful to see that as, like, this is what I'm working towards. Right. Because I want to have that relationship with my kids where they want to live on the back of my property in an adu. Yeah, exactly. And then number two is helping me to understand myself and my children so that I can support them in the way that isn't best for me. It's best for them. And what is best for them is best for me. And, you know, you've done some magical, magical things there. And then there's the third, you know, and this is, as your friend, is the way that you show love and support for the people that are close to you because you have the ability to see it all. You see it all. You see what we can define as, like, strengths or weaknesses or the things to be proud of, the things we're ashamed of. You see it all, and you somehow reflect back in a way that makes people feel so seen and heard and validated. And I'm like, you only put a tiny bit of pressure where there needs to be a breakthrough, but never to break.

Correct.

And it's I think the way that everyone wants to be seen and loved by their mother. That many of us didn't get that.

Yeah, I think, you know, this mother wounding, you know, I have my own. Okay, we're gonna go woo for a second. You know, let's go there. Part of, you know, my past life according to a bunch of different psychics and mediums. And I believe this fully, you know, there's a connection to the goddess Isis, who was like the goddess of mothering and nurturing and the glue that kept things together. Another medium told me that I was a Native American woman that was part of this.

Ambushed. And I was the lone adult survivor. And they found when people found me, I was on top and covering all the children. And as a little girl, I was mothering, I was mothering my father, I was mothering my mother, I was mothering my sister. And it was, I felt like that's how I earned my stripes. I felt like I needed to be that. And so it didn't always earlier in my life come from a place of like, this is my God given gift or past life gift or who knows, you know, what it was. But you know, as I have really worked to heal and continue to heal my own mothering and mothered wounds, I know that I'm here to help those that have them not be defined by them.

Not repeat some of them. And no, like we can have compassion and understanding of our mothers who brought us into this world or you know, were responsible for us and also like know that it wasn't okay. And we don't have to tolerate it just because, or, or accept it. You know, we can understand it and have compassion for it because, you know, as a little girl I could see why my mom was the way she was and she was a good person. She's just incapable and unwilling. And I can see, see even as a little girl, like what that was like. But I'm not gonna like co sign that as okay either. I can love you and understand you and still like have a boundary and hold you accountable.

Your ability to literally own your shit.

Yeah.

And to grow from it. Because the reality is if we can't own it, if we can't face it, we can never grow. Has helped me immensely in navigating a very challenging relationship with my mom. And for the first time in my life, creating boundaries around that because there was a big Part of me that still wanted to, like, if I just do enough or if I just.

If I just.

If I just. Then maybe I will be loved, approved of, heard, seen all the things. And.

And I think the important part is, like, it feels really personal, especially with the mother wound. Like, it feels so, like, what's the matter with me? Why am I not lovable enough? Or how can you not like. Like, you brought me into this world, you gave me life. How am I not? Like, if that person can't love you? Like, like, what the fuck?

Or tells you that it's. Everything is wrong with you and it's not them?

Yeah, it's really, really painful. And, you know, part of the work I do, especially because this always comes up even with men. Like, there's a mother wound for men too, that looks a little bit different, but, man, does it manifest in crazy as shit. But you still, like, can understand it wasn't personal and it was about them, and it still really fucking hurts, and it still has collateral damage, even if it wasn't about you. And we can understand that from the.

Neck up and still be incredibly wounded.

And yeah, from the neck down, our whole body is like, in, you know, paralyzation. Because, like, what is the matter with me? What is the matter with me?

Especially for me, I found it even more once I had children, because I was hurt before. But once I had children and I was like. And as each of them went, I look back now and I'm like, I was really triggered when Luke was five. That was the age when my parents got divorced. And then when Valentina turned five earlier this year, because all of a sudden, I saw myself and I saw the way I saw just, you know, listen, it wasn't all bad. But you. The book that you recommended.

Mother Hunger, which, oh, my goodness, I know that is one to create space for when you're ready to read it or listen to it. And then the third thing, I'm gonna go, wooh. I had my astrological report done against my mom's or my birth chart told me. She's like, oh, this makes so much sense. And I was like, tell me, please, give me more information that I can make sense of this. She said, you have liberation energy in the exact same place your mother has restriction. And so literally, the bigger you get, the more visible you are. I mean, one of my missions and platforms is visibility, which is really about openness, right? Exactly. Where you have that is where in a past life her mom was whatever, like, destroyed, persecuted, executed, et cetera. So to look at you. Is to experience the pain of death for her. And I was like. And it helped it be not so personal for me. And it also helped me just create a boundary of like, there's nothing wrong with me and I don't need to fix this. No. The last thing I'll share. And I don't. You've never shared that about your Native American past.

It's recent that I just found that.

Okay, so this is wild. And also makes so much sense. I'm very prone to suggestion and hypnosis. Shocker. Which you could probably dismantle. Why? And I wouldn't say up front. A classmate of mine who had an older sister into a lot of weird woo things. Which at the time it was weird because this is like probably 1990. Her sister had a book on past life regression and we were experimenting.

1990, in 1990.

So I was a fifth grader.

Oh, geez.

I was 10. And she read me through this. Like, I don't even know. Sam, Sam, over here. Shamami watching us. She read me through like a meditation incantation. Well, I completely went back. And what I saw, I looked down at myself and I saw like I was in Native American garb or wear.

Yeah.

And I was running through the forest and I was being chased to be killed. And I mean, still, I can still remember it vividly. And I could like see other young women that were running, also running away.

Maybe I was one of them.

You were probably the one that was like protecting my dead carcass. But okay, all right. So on to.

I'm like, no, but like, what to what you said, like, having kids, like, is so activating because like, literally the minute I could hightail it out of Chicago, like, and you know, the only way that I thought I could actually leave that was to get married. I was basically a child bride, you know what I mean? And then had babies back to back. And I literally thought, see, I'm not going to be like any of those. I'm 25, 500 miles away. I'm gonna do it differently, you know, very, you know, arrogant and cocky, like a good enneagram 8 is. And then, you know, I had the two back to back babies, Irish twins, and my daughter turned four and it was like.

Like, oh, shit. So activated. So angry. So triggered. And I like, thank God that's where this whole journey really started. Cause otherwise I would have been like, I'm better than this, I'm stronger than that. Like, you just gotta be tough. But when she turned 4, all those memories that had been pushed down, came coming back, and I had this moment where I'm looking into the eyes of my beautiful daughter who looked just like me as a kid. And I was filled with rage towards her. And I knew well enough to know, like, this is not about her, right? Like this is not about her. But the little girl in me is so angry that she never got a chance to be this free spirit. She was being responsible for grown ass fucking people. As a four year old, she was taking care of a two year old. And of course, like, if I didn't understand myself and what was happening, one of two things would happen. Either I was going to lose her completely or I was going to beat the shit out of her in a way that was trying to make her me. I would have clipped those beautiful butterfly wings and she would have ended up angry or something else. And I did not want that for her. And I did not want her to grow up and be my age. I was 28 at the time when she was 4. And I did want her to not want a relationship with me. And so, like, the real journey started 24 years ago. And then I had a son too. I was like, oh my gosh. And of course he's like Mr. Sensitive. And all I knew for the male, like example in my life were very aggressive, domineering men. And I didn't want to emasculate my own son. So I'm like, of course, God, you give me the two children that I need to heal. And so at 28, you know, and it back then, this was like 1998, like therapy wasn't openly talked about, like personal development wasn't a thing. So I'm like, gone down this road completely by myself in the closet. And I would have like, you know, five steps forward, four back, five, four. Because I wasn't in an environment conducive to that. I wasn't. And I wasn't telling anybody, you know, but it wasn't until 12 and a half years ago that I was like, okay, this is where the rubber meets the road. And let me take the 10 prior years or 12 prior years that I had been really working on this and bring a whole new element to the.

It just made me realize. So I was. My mom was 28 when I was 4. And I this year, in the age that my mom was when she kicked me out of the house.

Isn't that crazy?

That's crazy. And we're gonna talk about Valentina, my daughter, or I call her Vivi. She has now informed me she wants to be called Vivi because she loves her kindergarten teacher. And she calls her Vivi because it's a mispronunciation. But there's times that I'm like, it was worth. I was always a bright, energetic, too much entity, you know, in my own household and often in my classrooms, in my job. And that feeling of people wanting to like, make me smaller or dampen me or.

You know, I would have done that to her.

Well, Valentina is a way bigger personality than I ever have been. I mean, different. And I. Different big. Different big. And the beautiful thing is because of my own pain and trauma that I've. I mean, it's always like, there's always healing, but that I've done a lot of work on. I look at her and I'm not triggered by her at all.

No.

I'm like, wow, this is fascinating. Like, she's dropping the F bombs with better, you know, vocal intonation.

Her delivery is unmatched.

I joke. I'm like, it's not really a joke.

I'm obsessed. I know, but I'm obsessed. So keep sending.

Oh, you are. Well. And she's obsessed with you. And she's always like, send this to Tracy. I have a three minute music video she filmed last night for you. Cause she knew I was gonna see you. But I joked she's like a 50 year old new Jersey woman. Yeah. That is in a five year old body. But, you know, like in between lives are supposed to wipe you clean so you don't come in remembering things. She kept her comic timing and relief.

Yeah.

So Enneagram. Yeah, I want to talk about the Enneagram, but I want to do it because we've talked about the Enneagram before, but I want to talk about it through the lens of softness and femininity. Because you. You've been using the Enneagram for more than a decade.

Yeah.

You've been on your own journey of coming into your softness and femininity. Yeah. I want you to talk about one, how freaking uncomfortable that's been because I've been a passenger as I'm also going through my own cave. And we've been really talking about this as friends for the last year, but also how now the light is there at the end of the tunnel and it's been really serving you.

Well. It's interesting because, yes, I am not only a student, teacher, integrator, master with the Enneagram, and I can watch and look at the roadmap and the atlas of my framework very, very clearly and it says all the things like, where all my strength and power is, is in my softness. It says it clear as day, and I have the GPS and the roadmap to get there. But that doesn't mean that there aren't, like, bumps in the road and you go off roading and flying off a cliff from time to time. Like, it's still really fucking hard. But thank God I have the roadmap because I know, like, if I want to be the best version of myself and I believe this, this framework, and I, like, I see the power and beauty in it all the time and help others see the power and beauty all the time, then I also do have to walk my talk. And, like, it's easier said than done, right? Especially when you have, like, the history that I have. It's, you know, take away my soul blueprint for a minute. Like, as an enneagram 8, that's, like, painful. Painful to be soft, because everything we do is to be strong and powerful. And especially if you grew up in the household that I did, where strength and power was measured by control and aggressiveness and domineering behavior and loud and, like, even though I can understand very clearly that that isn't strength and power.

It'S the road, you know, and you've traveled.

It's all I've known and I've had, you know, the receipts, the timeline, the screenshots, that. That has worked out well for me.

Maybe in the short term, right.

But no in the long. I mean, I went 50 years. Like, you know, like, that has worked out well for me. And also, like, there's a better way, even as an enneagram8, and I was joking with Sam on the airplane, like, I'm radically uncomfortable in this softness. And also, I'm like, my little legends inside are, like, this is fucking awesome. And, like, I can be in this soft girl era and love it, and I won't hesitate, not for one second.

Pick up the battle axe.

Oh, I will turn my life into a dateline episode in 2.5 seconds if I have to. Like, I seriously. But I don't live there like, I used to. Like, I don't. I don't live there. And actually, my greatest work, my greatest mothering, my greatest friending, my greatest partnering with my love, like, everything that matters to me in my life is better, and I'm better for them. When I'm in the softer part of me. What I don't like to receive because that feels like weakness as an enneagram8, but I've had to recalibrate what my measuring stick is. And that is an undoing and a reverse engineering for, you know, the tough girl era that I lived for five decades now. That being said, you know, like, if you aren't wired like that, you're like, God, I want some of that. You know, fuck you and me. Right. And, you know, with the Roadmap and the Atlas of the Enneagram, I have watched the more softer era girls that live in that era turn into warriors and have boundaries and, like, put them in a little leather from time to time, too.

Wait, can we go through each type briefly?

You want to?

I would love to.

Okay.

Because I'm selfishly looking at my own tri type because I know where they show up, and I'm like. I also want to know, like, how to support, like. Valentina does not need any help with going into her battle acts.

No, but Luca does. Yeah, Sensitive.

Like, the other day I was telling him, yeah, women usually live longer because we release our emotions and we cry. And he goes, wait, crying makes you live longer? I said, yeah. He goes, I'm gonna live forever. I cry all the time. Yeah, Give just, like. Like, the name.

Do they live in the softness or the. The toughness?

Like, the name, a little sentence, whatever you want to give, like, description, and then. Yeah. Where do they live and how. How. Because each type, it's not just, oh, if you're naturally soft, here's how you go hard. It's like, each type is going to be.

So, like, with the Enneagram ones, they're the Reformers, you know, you were raised by one of them. I had a stepmother that was an Enneagram one. And, you know, they live more in that control era. Right. And. And sometimes they can be very aggressive, controlling. Some they. Some they can be very guilty. Passive aggressive.

Overt narcissism.

Exactly. You know, I honestly, like, if you're an Enneagram one, I respect the shit out of you. It is probably the hardest Enneagram type to be.

I have two clients that are Enneagram ones that are healthy, and they're incredible.

They're incredible. Oh, I have one helping me right now, like, unmatched. And it's really hard for them because they're so black and white, you know, so they need to be in the messy playfulness. You know, their growth number is yours. That's why you're so triggering to an Enneagram one, because it's very hard for them to get there. But they also envy that, you know, for the enneagram 2, they probably need a little bit more warrior in them. And for all my Enneagram Twos, I can tell you, you can be a warrior and still be kind and generous and loving and compassionate. There's nothing wrong with boundaries. And sometimes you, more than anyone, have to be a warrior with them. And I will never tell you to be an asshole.

Right.

I'm raising an Enneagram, too. And he did need a little bit more toughness in him, but not to take away, you know, that compassion and empathy and his spiritual gifts, you know, for Enneagram Threes, they just gotta feel.

For fuck's sake, my husband.

They just. They're tough, too. Like, because everything they do is about, you know, what they do, what they achieve and how they appear. So they will, you know, shove down any feelings. They will also plow through other people's feelings to get there. And, you know, they're in the feeling center of intelligence, so they do feel everything. But whether or not they, you know, share that, show it, address it, and.

Then they don't want to talk about it, because then they feel shame.

Well, and also, like, it's not efficient. It's not. It's not gonna help them. It doesn't help them get to the goal. But, like, I mean, I've watched an enneagram 3 take their last breath. Oh, I have. And I know for a fact he would have done anything. Anything. And he was young. He was 57 years old. He would have given anything to not live in that fucking. Let's go all the time. To have even five more min. You know, so that's a message to all the Enneagram Threes. And we all admire you because you make it look easy, but not at the cost of, you know, you being a sensitive, loving, because you are. That's the real prize, is you being loving and loving yourself for that. Enneagram Fours, like Luca, my son and my love, the most sensitive on the Enneagram. And, you know, sometimes they can be tough. I mean, I've seen Luca, like, pop off. I've seen my guy pop off. You know, he's got battle scars on his hands, you know, from back in the 80s. To see what, you know, what an enneagram 4 can be. But they are the most sensitive and intuitive on the Enneagram. And the shame, probably more than any other type, can really take them down.

And it's hard. So they, you know, they're very dramatic. You know, they feel the full scope of the emotion. So it can be like this whole big thing, but. But being able to identify what it is they're really feeling and leverage that for something beautiful. Because all the emotions are really, really important. And most Enneagrams Fours have been told, like, don't be so sensitive. Don't cry about that. But they feel everything, and that is their gift. Now, what they do with all those feelings is what's really, really important. And there's nobody that brings us and makes us feel more connected to the human experience.

Like, a four, literally being a mother of four. And I mean, again, credit to you for helping me understand this. But, like, Luca, I mean, he's learned to advocate for himself. And that's the big thing, is not just go into, like, all the feelings is. I've heard him say it a few times to adults in his life that are like, oh, don't cry or don't this. And he's like, my feelings are what's most special about me, and I'm going to feel this way. And I'm like, that's right, bud.

It's so true. I have, like. It's been very profound to, like, be in love with an enneagram4 and watch him in the hardest time of his life on a few different levels, and to thankfully understand this enough and see him fully and not try to change that about him, but also guide him through all the emotions and let him know, like, it's all okay, and it's okay to feel all of them. Let's use him for something really powerful and to see the transformation that's happened with his own boys. Like, if I do nothing else in this lifetime, in this relationship, I did fucking great.

Beautiful.

And I. You know, I was one of those that probably would have judged the Enneagram for harshly. I mean, I was raised with one who was very dramatic, and I resented her. And so I know one day, probably I'll be able to have that conversation with her. Enneagram Fives, they don't like to feel anything. They're just like, just give me the facts. Like, very analytical. They usually hide out and they hoard their wisdom a little bit because, you know, they don't want to be imposed upon. Right? They. They want to be in their cute little bubble and nerd out with all that stuff, but they're so freaking brilliant.

That, like, they're certain they know.

Yeah. Yeah. It's when they're certain they know, and they have information and resources and knowledge, but it does no good if they kind of hoard it. So being able to communicate that and this Is the thing. If you love or lead in any grant, Five is like, less is more with them. Be very direct and short and sweet, because if you know they know something that you want, if you're pouncing on them, you'll never get it from them. Why Fives love me is because I get it, and I'm like, listen, just give me the goods and I'll leave you alone. And they love to geek out on what they know, but when a 5 can step into their power, because their growth number is an enneagram, 8, which is also why I think they're drawn to me, because they know they have it in them, but they're afraid of that intensity. And, you know, I'm like, you guys don't have to live in the intensity that I eat for breakfast. You seriously don't. You just have to touch it from time to time, and then you can go back to your cave, but we got to step into it because that's. That's seriously what you're here to do. And then you can go in your cave and geek out and go down the rabbit hole. Sixes struggle a lot because they need certainty that they're not going to be blindsided, right? And, you know, just like me growing up in what I saw as strength and power for a Six, if they've experienced any trauma, they're running scared all the time. They're the master worriers of the Enneagram. But the thing is, they're called the loyal skeptic, right? So they're super, super loyal. You want a Six, a healthy Six, in your corner for sure. But if they've experienced trauma, earning their trust is damn near impossible sometimes. And it can make relationships with them very, very hard. Because, like, you can be showing all your cards, and I have before, and they're like, I don't get it. I don't get it. And I'm like, well, I'm out. I'm out. So for Sixes to really embody the full human experience and have the loyalty, because that's the thing they'll trust. And once they trust, their entire guard goes down. Like, there's no kind of scanning. Which is why I'm a really good person for a Six. I'm like, I'm always scanning. Even if I trust you, I'm like, I'm looking for cracks. But Sixes, they don't trust. They don't trust, they don't trust. But once they do, then all bets are off, and then they get taken advantage of sometimes. So they do have to put walls down and also, like, play the game of, like, up, down, up, down, up, down. And it's. It's madness for them. You as an enneagram7, and my daughter is an enneagram7. And almost all my closest friends are sevens, because you're here to teach us the most. You guys don't like emotional pain. Check. Yeah, you don't.

We love intensity, but not emotional pain.

Love intensity, but not emotional pain. And your certainty comes from freedom, choices and options. Right. And if you're wallowing in tough feelings, then it's going to rob you of freedom, choices and options, and fun and adventure. Right.

We love to bypass.

You're the kings and queens of the spiritual bypass a lot of the time, like, yeah, this is fun. And then you're like, yeah, I'm out of here. Like the shiny object chasers. And it's all for fun and adventure. Right. And you get by on that sometimes. Like, you have receipts to show that that has worked. I. You're one of my favorite stories to talk about, like, with friends of mine that don't know you. I'm like, oh, we like playing two truths and a lie with this girl is so funny because, like, she drops some shit. Like, you're like, there's no way that that's true. And sure shit. And every industry known to man you have succeeded in. I mean, you've been a real estate, dance, real estate agent, burlesque dancer.

Not professionally. No one's ever paid me. Yet.

Yet is the key word. But for Sevens being okay in the quiet, even though your mind is going a million miles a minute, and also knowing that long game, freedom, choices and options come when you are willing to stand in the fire, even when it's really painful and uncomfortable. I mean, look at the freedom and choices that you have in your life because of the fire you stepped in and the boundaries you put up and the pain that you held for yourself and let others hold for you, the peace and freedom that you feel and the freedom that you have set free with your family because of that, it's temporary. I tell Sevens you don't have to go there for too, too long, but you do have to go there.

You got me to embrace it. I think the first time.

Yeah.

And then I was like, oh, wow, this is incredibly liberating. And now it's.

Now it's like, actually liberating is key word for a seven.

It has to be freeing.

Yeah. In raising a daughter that's a seven. Two. Like, that's why I said, if I didn't make some changes, she would have bolted. I'm out of here. Like, peace out, Girl Scout. And I remember when I was kind of showing her her roadmap and framework, and she was like, God, fives are boring. And I'm like, well, fives are actually here to teach you something. And it's in that little cave and that incubator that all your beautiful dreams and innovation and visions come to life. It can only happen in that incubator. So get comfortable with it, even if it's for a short period of time.

Is it Leonardo da Vinci a7?

I don't know. Steve Jobs is, though.

Yeah.

I'm like.

And, you know, how long did he take to, you know, I don't know on some of his big projects? Like, forever. But they always pull together all these random things into magic.

Whoever made the pool noodle is probably an enneagram7 because, like, who else comes up with that? You know what I mean? Also, I was watching some Shark Tank. The guy who made the scrub daddy with the big smiley face. That dude has to be a seven. He's so great. Enneagram Eights, I kind of already talked about, like, we are warriors. We're. I mean, I was born coming out of the vagina and drinking and fighting, like, Irish Aries. Like, Enneagram, it's like the trifecta. And also, like, understanding that the strength and power is like, the real flex is when it's coming from that soft, vulnerable, compassionate place. But in our bodies, for most of us, it feels like this feels so weak. And receiving, like, you say, it's open to receive. Like, I don't want to receive. I don't want to receive. Like, it's very hard for me because that's like, I shouldn't need to receive. Receive anything. I shouldn't need to have support. I shouldn't. Because that's for weak. However, I don't judge anybody else for that. I actually admire that in other people. But it's like. But for me, and I'm changing that. And Soft Girl era, still a Dateline episode. Finally, the Enneagram nine. They probably. I mean, they're at the top of the Enneagram for a reason. They're the divine spirit. Whatever the divine is for you and your belief is an enneagram9. And they're at the top of the Enneagram because they can see the perspective of all of us in a way that the rest of us can't. And they're motivated by peace and Harmony and the greatest good for us all. However, there's a big difference between keeping the peace and making peace. And unfortunately for a lot of nines, they'll keep the peace because they want that peace and harmony. But they settle for the temporary version and create long term disharmony by not building a stronger, healthier relationship with conflict. Because conflict is the greatest catalyst for change. If you think about Jesus, Jesus was the ultimate enneagram9 and he was all about. He was the Yoda of like the Bible, for crying out loud. Like, and always looking and seeking and inclusive and non judgmental and easygoing. But let me tell you, Jesus would go toe to toe with the rascals. Like Peter in the Bible, like the Enneagram eights of the Bible for sure. And he was okay stepping into that from to time. He didn't live there. And same thing with enneagram eights. You have to be able to say this is what I believe. This is what I stand for. This is not okay. And be okay with short game disharmony to create, you know, the ultimate peace and harmony and greatest good for yourself and, and us all.

So first of all, anyone that has not taken. I'm not saying the Enneagram. Your Enneagram.

Yeah.

Because I took one before I met you and I think it said that I was a three.

Me too. Yeah. Yeah. Most high achieving women end up getting a three and most are not.

Exactly. Because. And now that I know, because my husband is a three and he used to say like we're the same person. And I'm saying we're absolutely.

Absolutely not.

And he said that the other day. I go, what are you talking about? We've had our enneagram. Said we're so not.

I'm like, you're motivated. Completely different.

So different. Yeah. So we, we may look like we achieve.

Yeah.

The reasons are so different. Wildly different.

The why behind it is very different.

And now. And now that I'm not achieving out of validation and I understand, you know, when I achieve something, it's because I'm obsessed with it and it's fun and expans where I'm not gonna. I love my husband, but he's amazing. He's amazing. But I won't do something I don't wanna do ever. Ever.

He'll do it just cause he can win.

Because he can win. So your test.

Yeah.

Specifically I took it back in 2020, the first time we had our first session. And this was crazy because it was like, it was like the beginning of February 2020.

Yeah.

Thank goodness I had that information.

I think I was in this airport in Orange County. I thought you were. You were.

And I was in another airport on the phone with you. I was in Nashville.

I was in this airport here.

It's so crazy. I was in Nashville. It was a baby. But you gave me so much permission when I felt so seen. But you gave me so much permission to go into my five and, you know, so much was born out of that. But again, I took your test and then I took it again when you started. I mean, you work with all my clients, all my mastermind, and it's been. And I know I'm not allowed to do the parlor trick of typing someone literally. I'm like, like, oh, what is your motivation? Because I've gotten to see not just you, how you've interacted with me in one on ones, how you've helped me, Gino. And I'll say, you know, we went into our first couple session that I of course booked and he went in and he's like, what the hell? He knew of you. And I mean, what'd you say that first time? That you just like, you got down his defenses immediately.

Yeah. I was like, listen, I'm team Capiero here. I'm not team Rebecca and I'm gonna call her on her shit too.

And you do. And I did, though.

I'm like, yay. Yeah. I mean, you know, to see him be like, okay, okay. And also see him fully in the softness and the little boy in him, like, when I saw like the tears fill in his eyes too. Sorry, Eugeno, if you're listening.

Probably not.

We might be sick. I know, but like, I could see transformation happening not just for you guys as a couple, but also for him. Like, it was very beautiful to see.

And by the way, that was 2022, because we kind of came back into each other's lives in 2022 in the mastermind. Yeah, well, we. I mean, we were like, already.

Yeah, we've already been. But like hardcore in.

Hardcore in. And then for our 10 year anniversary, which was in March this year, 2024.

That was a big.

He booked a session. He didn't tell me he booked a session with you. And thank goodness, because it was our 10 year anniversary, we were going to spend two days without kids and we were fighting the morning of. Yeah. And thank goodness we had that session because it like completely broke down our walls. Both cried our eyes out and felt like connected in a way.

It was beautiful.

It was beautiful.

It was probably One of my favorite sessions of all time was that day, because I knew, like, and you completely.

Called me out, which I was like, damn, you called me out so many times.

With love.

With love. Always with love.

A lot of it.

But, you know, I've utilized this tool in my relationship and not, like I said, not weaponized it, because there's been times I'm like, honey, don't go into the shame spiral.

And he's like, I know.

And I was like, whoa, whoa. You know, I say I love all the tools. Yeah. I mean, I'm a seven. I need to, like, have a tool belt with 50 tools on it. But of all of the tools, it's the tool that I've used the most in every area of my life, personally and professionally. And, I mean, you have literally typed all my clients. And the coolest thing is in my mastermind. And you've seen this is giving them a language to connect, to see each other, to understand each other, to call each other up, to have compassion for themselves and each other. And because we did that at the retreat, they spend the rest of the year so connected. And it takes you so deep. Like, so deep. People are like, I'm walking away changed and feeling like these women know me and support me unlike any other relationship.

How beautiful is that when you can look? I mean, I used to read an atlas as a little girl. I know Everybody that's under 40 is like, what is an atlas? You know what I mean? But I actually used to read those as a little girl. I was fascinated to understand how did we get from here to there, and how the hell do I get out of here? Right? And now to be somebody that puts a roadmap in front of everyone and gives you language. Like, I have known this map probably since long before I was introduced to the Enneagram. I really, really did. But to be able to hold this atlas for you and to show it to you and to show it, you know, with your colleagues, with your peers, with your love with your children, the language. And, you know, as long as you use it and integrate what you learn, you know, this can really transform generations. And I'm super passionate about it. Now I'm teaching it. Now I'm going to certify people in it.

I want to talk about the certification.

Okay.

Because, again, I had a friend today that was like, well, what's the difference? Because I haven't met with you yet. I give Tracy as a gift for all of the most important people in life. I'm like, you're Getting married, you get a session with tracy. Have a 40th birthday, you get a session with Tracy. Because it is so tricky.

You get one, and you get one.

I literally just want to be blonde Oprah, you know, But I was explaining because she was like, well, human design. And I said, you know, human design. And it's been very helpful for me to understand a few things about myself better, like how I manifest, how I respond. What's a yes or no to understand those things? However, it's too complex for me to understand other people. And what I found with the Enneagram that's been so helpful is once I can at least understand someone's base, their primary type, not the tri types, which maybe we can talk about for a minute. Another day, another. Yeah, another podcast. We'll book it next time. Is it allows me to understand others. And then because I would say because of what I know, because I've sat through your deep dive sessions.

Hours and hours and hours.

I mean, five of them, plus my private. So I mean, I probably sat through 25, 30, 30 hours of enneagram training, not counting being your friend and listening to your podcast.

Right, right.

I mean, hours. And I will say I'm. I'm probably consciously competent, but not.

You're pretty damn good.

Thank you.

You're pretty damn good.

But it's given me a framework where, I mean, even, like, I meet my neighbors, we go out to lunch, I'm like, ask a few questions. I'm like, oh, interesting. And people feel so seen and understood, and it's. It's wildly powerful. So I know you're doing a certification. Can you talk about that? Because in the past, you do, obviously, you do a lot of corporate and entrepreneur stuff. You've. You've worked with my team, you've worked with my clients, you've worked with my husband's company, John Deere.

Yeah.

But you've worked my friends at Google and YouTube. I mean, you work with everyone.

Yeah.

And you work with one on one or in partnerships, whether that's business partners or. I mean, I can't say what you've helped my husband with, but, like, you help navigate. You've helped me navigate hirings and firings.

Yep.

You know, some of the tough things.

Yeah, we've done that, too. Yeah.

Real fun. Talk to me about the certification. Selfishly, I need to know.

God, I've resisted this one for a long freaking time because, like, I am somebody who uses this tool in integrity. And I, you know, I put the disclaimer anytime I'm talking to people, individuals, couples, groups. I want the integrity and the intent of your heart behind this tool to be in alignment. And that's why I didn't. Like, I didn't want to certify anybody without me knowing. And part of that is, like, I got my own issues around that.

Like, well, you want to make sure that what you do is. I mean, it's such a powerful tool that if it's not used correctly, I don't want somebody.

You taught me this. I'm like, I did not, you know.

Not to do that.

Right. And that being said, do you know how many times over the last decade people have said, can you please teach me this? Because even people who have gone through other Enneagram certifications and people who have certified me, there's no other certification. There isn't. Honestly not if you actually want to use this thing. And, you know, I've taken an accreditation just to kind of make sure I know what I'm talking about. That company's been around for 30 years, and the instructors are like, what are you doing here? And why aren't you teaching this? Like, you have run this whole thing. I was like, shit, I want to have a few different levels of certification, like, obviously. And I've decided to do it because people are coming to me, and they're like, seriously? And also, like. Like, I am so booked up that if I can teach leaders in their own organizations how to use this, then I can do other things. Like, I don't want to say no then. Huh?

You don't have to say no to opportunities.

Exactly.

Give them to someone else.

Exactly. I would much rather, like, know the way, go the way, and show the way through the.

Well, if they can't work with you, they're going to work. They might work with someone.

They will. And. And they have, and they're. They text me when it's happening. I had somebody just a few days ago. They're like, I'm so grateful I got to witness you in this Mastermind, because my company actually hired this yahoo that is talking about the Enneagram, and they completely got it all wrong.

Well, I want to say, because, again, people that don't know, like, the test I took, if people are understanding astrology, the example I make or the metaphor I make for you because of the fact you do the tri types. You do the. What is it called? Sxs.

The Instincts.

The Instincts. It's the difference between knowing your astrological sign and having a natal chart done right. It's like one you're like, yeah, yeah, I can see that that resonates versus, like, holy crap, this person is seeing into my soul, and they understand everything about me, which is not scary. It's liberating.

So, like, with the certification, I really do want to empower people to carry this message. I mean, one of the most profound things I got in recovery is, like, carry the message to those that might be struggling and with humility and accountability and grace and. And compassion. And that's worked out really well for me in my life. And the way that I want to empower and stop hiding this secret and really, like, take the risks that come with putting your name on a way that I integrate this tool and show others. The way to integrate this tool is I want to help the next generation of legendary leaders really make an impact. Because here's the thing, like, I'm 52. I'm not getting any younger. The women that are helping me kind of really harness this and bring it to life. They're like, if you don't do this when you die, this all dies.

Yeah.

That would be really sad travesty. It would be really, really sad for the wisdom that you teach this to die with you. And they're right. They're right. Because I don't. Again, I'm not knocking any other enneagram people out there because there's some great information teachers, but I will go toe.

To toe with any way that you integrate it.

Is the difference. Yeah. Like, seriously, in all. In all, like, aspects of life.

Personally, professionally, romantically, parentally, friends, health.

All of it. Yeah. So I'm doing it, girl. And in January, it will be out if.

Yeah. Depending on. I'm going to be in the. I'm going to be the first group.

The first group.

And probably all of the women that have ever gone through my mastermind are going to be.

Yeah. You know, and, like, level one definitely will kind of, like, be real deep. Level two is, like, using this one on one. Level three teams and groups. And level four is like, if you want my whole methodology of not just enneagram, but beyond, like, that's what that will entail. And I'm finally doing it. It's terrifying me, but it's really important that this. This scope of work gets out there.

Last question.

Yeah.

What does the phrase or the idea of becoming you mean to you?

It's. It's. I think we come into this lifetime, like, even before we enter Earthside. I think there's a soul blueprint that we have. I really do believe that. And I've carried babies in my body, and I. I know that to be true. Like, before life kind of got them and k teeth in a little bit. Like, I could feel their spirit and their nature and their essence in utero. And then they came earthside. And it was there. And it was there for quite a time until life, you know, and me altered the expression of that. And what I think becoming you means is kind of taking it back home to who you were always designed to be before life kind of happened, but now with the wisdom and the compassion and the heart and the grit and the grace and. And I'm so grateful that all this shit happened. And I'm even grateful that I took my kids down a bumpy road from time to time because it has helped shape them and bring them back to becoming them. That has more compassion than without. So understanding that every part of the journey was really, really important. And it's what you do with it and how you use that for something beautiful. Like, I hate the phrase, like, everything happens for a reason, because fucking heinous shit happens that is unexplainable. However, I do believe that anything that does happen, even the hardest heinous crap, can be turned into something beautiful. And part of that is taking this back to becoming you and who you were always designed to be, no matter what happens.

Mic drop. I love you so much.

I love you so much. I'm honored to be here with you.

Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of Becoming youg. If you loved what you heard, be sure to follow the podcast on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen. You can also stay connected with me daily on Instagram, Rebecca Caffiero, and discover more ways to live the life of your wildest desires by visiting rebeccacafiero.com.