E272: What Do Men Really Think About….? (Part 5) Rough Sex, Vibrators, and What Turns Them Off

Do men get upset if their partner needs a vibrator to help with an orgasm? Reverse cowgirl. Is the view really that great?

Sure is.

Do men really want to hear their partner give them feedback about their technique, or do they just say that? Xander, do men prefer rough fucking?

Whoa, no foreplay?

Hello and welcome to the Pillow Talk Sex Talks Podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin.

I'm a sex therapist with over 20 years of experience, and I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step-by-step techniques for improving yours.

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. You guys keep asking for these episodes, so we are going to keep on delivering. We are back with another What Do Guys Really Think About fill in the blank. You guys want to know what men are really thinking, so we turn to our resident regular dude, our resident penis owner, Xander, to answer on behalf of all men. Because I can do that.

I have the qualifications.

He does. Absolutely. He has a master's degree in men.

I'm a master of man.

Yes.

Should we just change this podcast to be called like the Master of Man or maybe Inside Xander's Brain?

Sure. The whole podcast. I mean, we seriously, every time we put this question box up, we get thousands of questions. And every time we release one of these episodes, we get a ton of comments and DMs of people saying like, yes, please keep the series going. I want to I'm gonna ask about XYZ. So we always have to give the caveat that obviously Xander is just one man. He cannot speak on behalf of every single man out there.

Oh shit, so I'm not qualified actually. Damn.

But I think the real value in these episodes is in the way that they naturally open up conversations between partners. So we are always encouraging you to listen to these episodes with your partner and let us do the heavy lifting of like bringing the topic up and posing the questions, and then it feels so much more natural for you to press pause on the episode and say like, "Hey, what do you really think about this? Do you disagree with Xander? Do you agree with Xander?" So it's not that, you know, Xander is just 100% answering for every single man out there and is inside your partner's unique brain and knows exactly what he would say, but it's in the way that it allows you to open up the conversation with your partner, because ultimately that's what's most important.

So really it's What One Man Thinks.

What One Man Thinks. That's not as exciting of a podcast title.

It sure isn't. It sure isn't. So we probably won't be going with that title, unfortunately, guys.

So we are going to cover a bunch of really interesting questions. I was just looking over the list and I was like, oh, I'm curious to know how he's going to respond to this one. So we shall see. But before we get into it, we would just love your support in helping Pillow Talks grow. There was yet another Spotify and Apple Podcast update that's like making it so much harder for podcasts to be able to reach new audiences, and we really want to make an impact with this podcast. Like, we hear stories from you guys all the time about how the podcast has positively impacted your life, and we want to be able to help more couples. So we would be so grateful if you just took half a second to hit the follow or the subscribe button wherever you're listening, it should just be on that main Pillow Talks page. You just tap it and you're following the podcast.

Yeah, you can probably see it on your screen right now.

And if you want extra credit, you could leave us a 5-star rating or a quick little review. It doesn't need to be anything long or profound. It could literally just be like, "This podcast is worth listening to." If you have something profound, absolutely let us know. Oh, I mean, we'd love to hear that, but I, you know, I know everybody's busy. I know even something like this most people are gonna listen to it and not do it anyway. So I'm trying to just make it as easy as possible, but it really, really does help us so much. So thank you in advance for your support. Okay, let's just get right into it. Xander, do men prefer rough fucking?

Whoa, no foreplay? We're just slipping it right— we're not even slipping it, we're just smacking it right in? Wow.

Rough fucking.

Hot in here.

This was one of the questions I was like, oh, okay, I'm curious to see what he's gonna say about this.

I don't think that I can give you a categorical answer here.

You have to. Yes or no, that's all you can respond. No context, no explanations, it's just yes or no.

All right, let me go in on a personal note. I, in general, do not prefer rough fucking. I think there is a time and a place, and it's very vibe and energy dependent, and sometimes you get into a more animalistic place. But my goal when we have sex is not like, how rough can we get? But at least for me, it does feel a bit like if the goal is always rough, then you're kind of going to be missing a lot of opportunities for like for connecting intimate moments during sex. Not that like you can't have a connecting and intimate rough fuck if that's what both of you are really looking for in that moment. But I do think that there's a time and a place for it. But I think if I'm looking really critically at our sex life, the— I don't know if we're quantifying the number of minutes where it's generally more rough, like That would probably make up like 5 to 10% of what we do, us personally. Okay, that being said, that's sort of like the personal thing. Here's a man saying he does not prefer rough sex. He every now and then gets, you know, we got a little, what's it, a wild hair up our nose?

You're turning into me, not being able to remember these. A, yeah, what is it? Wild A hair up your nose?

Something like that. You know, it's weird. I'll look it up while you're talking. And it happens and it's fun because that's kind of the vibe that has emerged from what we're doing. But yeah, for the most part, that is not, you know, we like, yeah, I don't know, we both of us like to, are kind of playful in bed and when it comes to sex. And so for us, you know, sex tends to be a little more like playful, I guess, which is not necessarily super rough for us. If rough sex is the thing that you love, then I mean, hopefully you found a partner that also loves rough sex as much as you, because then you can have a lot more of it. But all right, why do we have this perception of men loving rough sex? I think that's maybe the better question.

Well, I even kind of want to step back and ask, what are we talking about with rough here? Like, I think this could be— do you mean rough in the sense of like, Fast and hard, like really like jackhammering type of sex, or do you mean rough more in the sense of like maybe there's some BDSM or some power play involved where you're like spanking each other, choking each other, you know, playing with power dynamics. So rough could be a lot of different things.

True. Oh yeah, very true. I guess I was speaking more towards like pounded out type of rough.

Oh, it's a wild hair up your ass.

Up— no, it's not.

I swear it's your nose.

It is not. Where do you find that?

Up your nose is a common polite substitution people make so they don't have to say the crude version.

Well, I've literally never heard— I feel like people are so polite with that one that the phrase has just become up your nose. It makes a lot more sense to be up your nose because like that would make you sneeze, it kind of make you get a little wild, right? Like if you get a— I hate to say it, but if you get a hair in your ass, you're not really gonna know. Would you feel like— would you be like, oh God, this stupid hair in my ass?

No, haven't you ever had a You're not a girl, so you don't know this experience. But like, sometimes you get a long hair that's like in your butt crack and you can, you can feel it. You can tell.

Oh, okay.

You got to fish it. Just like how I had to have you— I had a hair stuck to my back earlier today and I was like, damn, now you have to get it off me. Sometimes you can.

So we're talking about a wild hair between your cheeks is what you're saying.

Yeah.

I was thinking like in your asshole.

Not in my, like up in my butthole. No, like between the cheeks. You know, they fall, they fall down from here, and then they work their way down there. And sometimes they just slip in the crack on the way down, apparently. All right.

If it is, if we're talking more BDSM, then that's more a question of like kink. And I think like, as you know, we've talked when we talk about kink, like, that's something if you're talking about BDSM, spanking, I don't know if spanking is necessarily qualifies as kink all the way. Like, you can— but, you know, if we're talking about BDSM power play, then that is definitely something that not all men prefer. You know, kink is really something where it's like, if you happen to enjoy that kink, then that is something that you are into. Um, but what are— do we have stats on— do we have stats on like what roughly percentage of people kind of identify as having a kink?

I don't think so. It's a good poll that we should ask people though.

We should absolutely ask our audience. But yeah, I mean, I can tell you without a doubt that far less than 50% of men have a BDSM kink. But if we're talking about just like rough, pounded out kind of sex, I think that, I think that men can absolutely get the idea that pounded out rough sex, basically what you very often see in porn. That that is sort of what you aspire to. So I think that men who watch a lot of porn, their only sexual education was porn, or maybe men who are younger, haven't had a lot of partners or very serious partners, might think that this is sort of something to aspire to. And I can, I can see myself in that category from at a younger age where, you know, I didn't talk— no one really talked to me very much about sex. You know, I definitely saw how sex was portrayed in porn, like, through my teenage years and through my early 20s. And I think most guys, when they start having sex, their main concern is, how do I not cum in, like, under 2 minutes? And so I do think that early on, I definitely looked at, like, oh well, if I'm able to have rough sex, then, then I'm, like, in good control of my body. Right? Like, I'm able to, you know, I'm able to go for a while and go at a speed where I'm not just like immediately coming. And so I think that it can be easy early on to sort of fall into this trap of like, oh yeah, I must really be doing it right if I can do this. That being said, you know, personally, I didn't have a lot of sex outside of serious relationships. Like, the vast majority of the sex that I've had has been in serious committed relationships. And I think, you know, for me, I quickly found like the— for me, the most enjoyable aspect of sex and committed relationship is it being like a bonding intimate, like an experience you're having together, not like something I'm doing to her. So I think that, yeah, the vast majority of most men in, you know, long-term committed relationships are not looking for super rough sex. I think if they are, a lot of it might have to do more with a kind of, I don't know, inaccurate idea of what sex is supposed to be about.

I also think you may have a good chunk of men who are doing this jackhammering kind of motion because they've desensitized themselves from masturbation.

Yes, that's very possible.

Where it's a lot of men use what we call the death grip. A lot of people, that's not like our phrase, but—

They develop it over time.

Yeah, they develop it over time where they start using like a tighter and tighter and tighter grip usually when they're watching porn while they masturbate, they're disconnected from their bodies because they're paying more attention to the porn. And so they end up like training their bodies to require this level of stimulation that a vagina just cannot create.

So speed becomes the only workaround.

Speed and intensity. Yeah, like you're trying to create more sensation. Okay, so let's go to a related question. What do guys feel like they get out of sex other than just an orgasm? Do they feel like they connect in other ways after sex too?

Absolutely. I think this is one of the most misunderstood things about men, because we have these stereotypes of men as like, they just want to get off, they just want to get some, they're just in it for the orgasm. Like, they, you know, they put it in anything. And the reality is, if you are in a relationship, you want to do it with this one person, right? If you wanted to just put it in anything, or you wanted to just do it totally on your terms, like, you wouldn't want to get into a relationship. I think that what most men are so misunderstood for is sex is one of the main ways, probably the most major way for the vast majority of men, that they feel like they are able to connect and be vulnerable in a relationship. It is how they feel they feel really connected, in love with their partner. And the time that you're able to share in terms of the sex that you're having, maybe being able to talk a little dirty, talk about what it is that you want, what you like, how hot your partner is, how beautiful they are, all those things, that is a level of vulnerability that most men don't feel comfortable with. Outside of sex. You know, unfortunately, we have been socialized in such a way to not feel as comfortable as women in letting out our emotions in most contexts. But sex is very often one of the very few ways— sex and sports are seriously the two ways where men are socialized it is okay to be emotional, it is okay to be vulnerable, it's okay to cry, it's okay to really show how you feel. You know, unless you're constantly watching a lot of high-stakes sports games with your partner, the way that you are probably going to get that vulnerability and emotional closeness is via sex. So yeah, like I know with us, after we've had sex, I feel like, I feel like my love tank is full. I feel like, I feel very close to you. I feel very connected to you. I feel even more in love with you than I already am. And I feel like that connection, that good feeling lasts for a while afterwards. And I will very often, when I find myself feeling a little disconnected, I will find myself thinking about, oh, well, how can I reconnect? Oh, sex, that's a great way to reconnect.

I think that this is something that women really get wrong about men and a way that we do a huge disservice to men is that we think of sex as purely this physical act. We depersonalize it. We act like all they want want is just to get off. We're just a convenient vessel for them to do that in, and we don't see, or we downplay, the ways that it actually is connection for them. And this is not to say that you have to force yourself to have sex that you don't want to have, that you always have to say yes to them. Absolutely not. Like, that's a separate, completely separate topic. But we do need to respect that sex is about emotional connection for men and that it's a valid way to experience emotional connection. Like, as a therapist, I want men to be able to experience emotional connection in other ways, and that's part of the work that we do. It's like, yes, it is valid for you to want this as emotional connection. Let's also teach you other ways to experience emotional connection with your partner so that she doesn't feel this pressure of, oh, the only way that he's able to feel close to me is if I do something with my body. So like, we want you to have multiple options. But again, it starts with acknowledging, validating, and honoring that this is a real way to want to experience emotional closeness with your partner.

And I do think that if you are a partner who wants to encourage more emotion and vulnerability out of their male partner, sex might be one of your easiest and best ways in to try to help them open those doors a little bit more. So here's an example of what I mean.

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So the moments right after we finish sex are some of the times where most men are most open to having more emotional or vulnerable types of conversations. Unfortunately, most of us jump up after sex, go off and do our own thing, or jump up to clean up, and then we don't really come back together to bask in that moment. So think about, hey, can I use the next 5 to 10 minutes after we finish to try to feel closer to my partner, to try to sort of encourage a little more emotional and connecting conversation. Not to like have an emotionally loaded question that you want to spring on him right after you have sex, but just talking a little bit more about like how it feels afterwards, how good that connection feels. You're starting to lay the groundwork for, hey, when we do this, it feels good. And You know, maybe asking some questions. Hey, how are you feeling right now? What was that like for you? What's it like, like seeing me when we're having sex? Questions like that, where you're just slowly starting to encourage him to open up a little bit more. So that way you're creating this connection of, oh, when you share a little bit about an emotional topic, like we have a, you know, a good, we have a good outcome, right? Like it's a positive conversation. So you can start doing that. You can also use the topic of sex to create more connecting conversations. Like, hey, the next day be like, man, I can't stop thinking about last night. That was really fun. Or, man, those moments we shared afterwards were so meaningful to me. And so starting to use the topic of sex to start to make it feel more safe throughout the day to have some kinds of emotional touchpoints or vulnerable touchpoints. And give him positive encouragement when he does, you know, is sharing, being more emotional with you, is being more vulnerable with you. Yeah.

And also like going back to the validation piece of it. So let's imagine whatever it is that feels the most emotionally connecting for you, like to the women listening, like let's say it's quality time together or it's having deep conversations. Imagine if your partner put that down. And said, "Ugh, quality time together? Like, come on." "That's so dumb.

We live together." "We live together.

Obviously we're spending quality time together." And to be fair, some men do do this and you already know how shitty that feels. You're like, "Dude, that's how I feel close to you. Like, don't put that down, right? Don't treat it like it's something that's unimportant. You might have a different relationship. You might have a different, like, you know, relationship with what makes you feel connected, but like don't put me down for wanting to spend quality time with you, wanting to have date nights with you, wanting you to say nice things to me," you know, whatever whatever it is.

So yeah, because that feels really invalidating, right?

Yeah, exactly.

So like, imagine how it might feel— imagine how invalidating it might feel to your male partner when he hears you downplay sex or talk about, oh God, you want that? Like, seriously read the room. Like, even if he should be reading the room, like, it's being able to acknowledge, hey, I see that you're making a real legitimate bid for connection right now. And rather than trying to shut him down, you can still say no, but you can say no in a kind way that recognizes that he gave you a valid bid for connection, and that connection is important to you.

I swear on my life I did not plan this, but I am wearing my brand new Quint's cardigan, and I get to talk about Check out Quince. I'm so excited. This is their 100% organic cotton cropped cardigan in heather brown. I think it is so cute. I was so excited when it came in. It's super soft, really cozy. I've been trying to wear more natural fibers and to get 100% organic. And this was $49.

Damn.

Such a good price for organic cotton. We love Quince. They have so many high-quality pieces for super affordable prices. They have, like, it is mind-blowing the number of different categories they have. There's clothing, but there's accessories, shoes, stuff for your home, linens, towels, kids' stuff, like, furniture, caviar. It's crazy the amount of stuff that they have. But definitely think you should check out this cardigan. Make your summer wardrobe easier. Go to quince.com/pillow for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com/pillow. Quince.com/pillow for free shipping and 365-day returns. quince.com/pillow. If you are watching the podcast on YouTube, you might be able to see that I'm on my curly hair journey, letting my natural texture come out.

Having a good hair day today.

Thank you. Something that is really helping is my Blissy silk pillowcase. I had no idea that cotton pillowcases cause frizz and actually sleep creases on your face until I switched to Blissy, actually at a friend's recommendation. You will see healthier skin in weeks. It reduces fine lines, wrinkles, and those sleep creases. Better hair in days because it reduces frizz, breakage, and preserves styles and color. Like, when you sleep on it, my curls don't just go flat and disappear. Like, it really helps keep the life in them. The Blissy pillowcases come in over 100 colors. They're super easy to take care of, fully machine washable. Over 3 million sold. They've won 13 different awards. They're really great gift. I got them for my mom for Christmas last year and she absolutely loved them. Because you're a listener, Blissy is offering 60 nights risk-free plus an additional 30% off when you shop at blissy.com/pillowpod. That's blissy.com/pillowpod and use code pillowpod to get an additional 30% off. Your skin and hair will thank Okay, next question. Do men really want to hear their partner give them feedback about their technique, or do they just say that?

Oh, this is a tough one because I do think that there are a lot of men who unfortunately tend to react somewhat poorly to feedback, even if they are saying, "Yeah, I want feedback." It's like you're saying, I want feedback, but the only feedback I want to hear is, I made you cum so hard.

So good. You did such a good job, babe. You're the king. I've never had better.

So yes, that is tough. I do think though, you can give feedback that is more rooted in negativity. You can give feedback that is more rooted in positivity. And I think that sometimes when we hear our partner going, oh yeah, no, I want you to give me feedback. I want you to give me feedback. People go, Okay, all right, fine. Well, all right, I'll tell you all the things that I dislike. And it's like, okay, yep, that is an approach that you could take. But if you take that approach, then the person receiving the feedback is feeling like, oh God, I'm really not doing a very good job. And I think that it's so much easier to come in with more of a positively rooted feedback. So trying to share What are the things that you do really enjoy that they do? And how can we get more of that? Oh, it's so hot when you do that, when, you know, when you do that thing. And, you know, I've noticed like often we'll kind of rush through that activity and I realize I actually really like that. What if it would be super hot if maybe we spent like 5 minutes just on that? Like that would get me. And then this is the key part. This is where you then tie a positive outcome of them doing that to something that's going to be good for them. Because I think if your partner is asking for feedback, what they are ultimately asking for is, "I enjoy seeing you have a good experience. Right? I want to do what I can to try to make you have as good of an experience, a good experience faster, a better experience sooner," you know, like something like that. So just trying to focus on What is it that you want more of? That's kind of our first trick with feedback. I think the second trick is, like, if your partner doesn't do very much that you really enjoy, and you're like, God, I'm like trying to think of like how to sugarcoat this, you know, find this one thing that I do really like, but they don't really do very much of it, then I think that the next best thing is rather than being like, I really dislike everything that you do, is more like, you know, I've kind of been like, I had a dream. We set aside like half an hour and we just, instead of, you know, like touching for like 20 seconds and then, you know, using our mouths for like 20 seconds and then going straight into it, we spread that out. We spent, you know, like 5 minutes just touching each other and then like 10, you know, 5 minutes just doing oral on each other, going back and forth. And it was so hot. I'm really curious about trying that. And you're not saying, that's how I want to do it every time. You're saying, hey, it would be— I— it was really hot in that dream. I can't stop thinking about it. It would be fun to try that out and see what we think. I'm not saying I dislike what we've been doing. So I think that, yeah, it's just trying to be careful that the message that you're sending is not like, everything that you've been doing is wrong. And in fact, I actually want something totally different.

Yeah, I think also it's important to give the context that the reason that men tend to be really sensitive about feedback in the bedroom is that they grow up being socialized to believe that you are in control of a sexual experience and it is—

the man is.

Yeah, the man is. It's his responsibility. He's supposed to just be automatically incredible at it, know what he's doing, read his partner's mind, be able to deliver the best possible experience. And that kind of socialization, like, that gets in really deep. And even if you've been crystal clear with your partner saying like, hey, this is a team, like, a team event, you know, we're in this together, which the vast majority of couples have never had that conversation, but like, even if you do say something like that, he's still going to be feeling that pressure of like, no, like, it, it really is on me. I'm the one who's supposed to deliver here. So when you feel that amount of pressure on your shoulders, I think it makes a lot of sense to also feel very sensitive to thinking you're not doing a good job, because it's like, it's an attack on your masculinity. Like, if I'm not doing a good job, I'm not a good man, right? And so, you know, I think we make a lot of jokes about like the frail male ego, the fragile male ego, but I do think I think that understanding that context is important for us being able to tap into sympathy. I think the vast majority of men, they're not trying to be jerks about it. They're not trying to be rude about it. It's like really coming from a place of sensitivity.

Yeah, I mean, I think it— yeah, the fragile male ego is a problem. And I think it's also something that we all have to take some responsibility for perpetrating. Whether you do this now or you did this at some point in, you know, earlier on in your sexual experience, like anytime that you say something or have an experience, you know, have sex where you're kind of like, okay man, like it's your job to, you know, your job to figure me out, or like, all right, like you run the show. I'm going to kind of lie back and like let you do your thing. You are perpetrating the idea that it's his job to run the show, to figure out what it is that you like, that it's not a team sport, that it's something that he's doing. Team sport, that's what that is. Yeah, that it's not something that he's doing to you and also getting something out of himself. Also, anytime, whenever you've been in a— if you've been in a relationship where you're like, "Oh, well, it's the man's job to initiate," you are reinforcing the idea that sex is for him. It is not for you. It's something that you give him, when he's been a good boy or whatever. And I think that we all engage in that, or we make jokes, or we say things that reinforce this idea that he's supposed to know your body better than you do, which how the hell would that ever even work? How would that even work? We know the way that the female body is wired, we generally know the way the female body is wired for pleasure, but every person experiences that differently. Literally different strokes for different folks. So there's no way that he can know what you want without either you telling him because you know yourself, or two, without you two exploring together, creating a container where it's both of you figuring out what works for the two of you rather than just him. It can be a little— triggering maybe isn't the right word, but it can be this sort of double whammy. You were a minute ago, you were describing like how it can feel like, well, God, I'm supposed to be in charge of this. And now you're telling me what I'm doing isn't good. On top of that, if you're like suggesting something, hey, I'd love it if you actually did this to me. If he doesn't feel confident in his technique on the other thing that you're suggesting, that's also going to feel scary to him. He's like, God, I'm supposed to be in charge. And now you want me to do something that I don't even— I'm not even very good at. Like, that is, you know, the sort of like a double attack on his masculinity. So I think that if you are suggesting something new or different, trying to find a way where it's like, hey, this is an exciting opportunity, not for you to do something to me.

Sounds like you're about to sell me a timeshare.

But it's an exciting opportunity to get your own place in Mexico for a very low price, and you can only use it 2 days a year. But no, it's like, hey, Hey, did I actually say an exciting opportunity?

Yes, you did.

And now I'm like struggling to even get back into what I was saying. No, but it's like, hey, I think this could be a really fun opportunity for us to explore something new together. Hey, this isn't something that I've done very much either. I think it'll be real— it like, let's look at this as a practice thing where like we both are going to get to try new things and both get to suggest new things. Because that is going to take a lot of the pressure off where it's like, look, I don't expect you to to like be incredible at this. We've never done this together before. Like, let's, let's learn this together. I think that would be really hot. That would be really hot for us to both get to kind of like learn or experiment with this together, regardless of our experience with it outside of the relationship. So I think that's where a lot of men get tripped up. They're like, wait, I'm supposed to be an expert at this, but I'm not. And so then they go, well, then they try to find excuses for why they don't want to do it. Or they feel like, oh, this person is asking me to do this because she's gotten— she's had someone else do this in the past and like really good. And then they're like thinking about that. And it's like, let's not talk about it that way. Let's talk about this is an opportunity for us to try something new together. We're both responsible for it. It's going to be a fun, connecting, vulnerable, and intimate experience together. Rather than like, "I need you to do this thing that my last boyfriend did." Oh god, don't ever say that. Yeah, don't say that.

Yes, and so this is a perfect example of a conversation that we really recommend all couples having. Like, if you have a male partner, ask him, "Hey, do you feel like you're supposed to be— like you're the one responsible for how good or bad sex goes? What are the expectations you have of yourself or the pressure that you put on your own shoulders around like what you're supposed to deliver?" The kind of experience that you're supposed to create. I think you'll be really surprised.

Yeah.

To, uh, to hear what he has to say. Also, I just wanna say this whole conversation about feedback is one of the reasons why we created our Ultimate Foreplay Guides is we know it can feel vulnerable to give your partner feedback. So we wanted to create technique-based guides that give you specific techniques to use and a specific framework for talking about those techniques with your partner, because when you go through this guide, you get to blame the guide for everything rather than feeling like you and your partner are being vulnerable and putting yourselves out there, and then the other person's saying like, oh, I didn't like that. So like, we give you— we walk you through in those guides exactly how to experiment with different techniques and exactly how to give each other feedback so that you're giving feedback to the techniques, to the guides, not to each other. So there's this way that you're able to say like, oh, interesting that they like included that one. It doesn't really do that much for me. Or like, this one was my favorite. Or here are my top 3. Like, it's just so much easier. That is one of the most consistent pieces of feedback that we get from people who go through those guides is they say it just made it so much easier to talk about our preferences, to explore new things without either of us feeling, you know, vulnerable or feeling like we were potentially being criticized. So we will put the link to check that out in the show notes. You can also just go straight to vmtherapy.com. Www.therapie.com/foreplay if you want to check it out. All right, Xander, reverse cowgirl, is the view really that great?

Sure is. Sure is. I mean, God, I—

Okay, tell the folks what reverse cowgirl is for anybody who doesn't know.

Okay, reverse cowgirl is when, like, I would be lying on my back on the bed. And then Vanessa would get on me with her back to my face, basically. So facing— we were— so that she would basically sit down on my penis in, you know, where we are both facing the same direction. So I can see her back, and then she would— she would basically get on on her knees. Like, she would put her knees on either side of me.

I'm really getting a very complex description. It's okay.

It's like it's cowgirl, but she's turned the other direction.

180 degrees.

You said to describe what it's like. So I was like, okay, well, I guess I can't use other sex positions. Turned 180 degrees. Um, him turned 180, or you turned 180, you both will end up in the same place. Um, yes, the view is excellent in general. I gotta say, man, women vulva owners really do get the short end of the stick on the view, the visual aspect of sex. I, I can't really think of any position where you would have a better view than I would. Yeah, yeah. And you— we comment on this a lot during sex where I'm like, I'm like, oh man, that is so hot, that is so hot. I'm like, I'm not like, shit, you can't really see that, can you?

I'm like, nope, I sure cannot.

I know, like, we need a little hand mirror. Seriously, we got to do that one of these days just so that you can get a sense of what it is that I get to experience. Um, yeah, okay, so, but no, anyway, distracted. Yes, yes, the view is great because you, well, you just get to see that ass obviously, um, bouncing up and down. But really what you get to see is you basically get to see the, like, the, the, the vaginal lips essentially kind of like going up and down on your penis in a way that you don't really get to see in any other position. And it's a view, let me tell you.

Okay, let's talk about the butthole because women get really nervous about this. I think in doggy style even more.

Yes. I'll say reverse cowgirl is not an asshole-forward position, but doggy is absolutely like there. Do you see asshole in doggy? I don't. I don't think so unless you were to really like spread it.

Yeah, sometimes I get down like spread. He's reaching behind.

No, if I were to spread it. No, don't spread.

Like why am I on top reaching behind myself to spread my cheeks?

No, don't do that. Don't do that. That is unnecessary. It also might throw you off balance. No, no.

No, I meant like if I come down to my elbows.

Maybe if you do that.

Or no, I don't usually come down all the way to the elbows, but I kind of like lean forward more like bending my elbows. Those.

Yeah, no, it is not really— it's not like a cheek spread apart as much as doggy.

Okay, so I think that's probably really concerned.

Yes, I'm pretty sure that reverse cowgirl is safer.

I mean, I can't guarantee you a complete safety, safety, complete butthole safety, butthole privacy.

Yeah, but even still, I can I can very close to guarantee you that he is going to enjoy the view, butthole or not.

But—

Butthole.

But you do like the butthole view too.

Yeah, it's hot. Yeah.

I know we've discussed this in other episodes before.

There is very little— if we are in the middle of sex, there's like very little that I can think of that I'm gonna be actively turned off by when it comes to a body.

That's definitely one of the most interesting conversations that you and I have ever had before. Like, that, yeah, that your brain just— because I think women's brains—

Sex is on the brain.

We're so hardwired to be critical of our bodies at all times, and especially during sex. I mean, I will never forget being in line at the grocery store as like a 16-year-old and seeing, you know, the women's magazine saying like, sex positions that don't show belly bulge are like the worst worst positions that you have to avoid because your, you know, your body will look so gross in them. And learning that you, like, there's just no space in your brain for thinking negative thoughts about the body.

That was mind-boggling for me. Sex, naked bodies, fuck yeah. Sex, body parts, bodily fluids, fuck yeah, let's go. Like, seriously, that's like on a loop in my head.

But what if they look fat? What if there's cellulite? What if there's rolls of skin?

They look like exactly exactly what I would expect it to look like when we're having sex.

And also, I just have to throw in a super quick plug for our Ultimate Sex Positions. We go over reverse cowgirl and dozens of other positions in tons of detail— exactly how to get into the position, how to move in it, how to transition between other positions, what each position is good for. We give you positions that I promise you have not tried before. There are so many fun positions in there. It's another really fun thing to explore. And just like I was mentioning with the Ultimate Foreplay Guides, we also give you frameworks for how to share your favorite positions with each other. So we'll also put that link in the show notes, but you can go straight to vmtherapy.com/positions if you want to check it out. I swear on my life I did not plan this, but I am wearing my brand new Quince cardigan and I get to talk about Quince. I'm so excited. This is their 100% organic cotton cropped cardigan in heather brown. I think it is so cute. I was so excited when it came in. It's super soft, really cozy. I've been trying to wear more natural fibers and to get 100% organic and this was $49.

Damn.

Such a good price for organic cotton. We love Quints. They have so many high quality pieces for super affordable prices and they have have, like, it is mind-blowing the number of different categories they have. There's clothing, but there's accessories, shoes, stuff for your home, linens, towels, kids' stuff, like, furniture, caviar. It's crazy the amount of stuff that they have. But definitely think you should check out this cardigan. Make your summer wardrobe easier. Go to quince.com/pillow for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada too.

That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.

Quince.com/pillow for free shipping and 365-day returns. quince.com/pillow. We have tried a lot of different electrolyte brands over the years, but we keep coming back to Cure. Cure has absolutely clean ingredients. It's coconut water and pink Himalayan salt doing the work, not sugar. They come in incredible flavors. Not too sweet, not too salty. They've got flavors like peach mango, berry pomegranate, watermelon, lemonade, which is Xander's personal favorite. Mm-hmm. Strawberry kiwi, ginger turmeric, blood orange, and tropical punch. Like everybody's gonna find something that they want on that list, right?

Yeah, they sent me a variety pack a while ago and I've tried every single one and they're all delicious.

They come in these really convenient little packets so you can just toss them in your purse, toss them in the car, keep some at your desk so you can always stay hydrated on the go. Go. And Cure Hydration is officially in Target now. You can find it at your local Target or get 20% off at curehydration.com with code Pillow Talks. That's 20% off at curehydration.com with code Pillow Talks. All right, how do men really feel about female discharge?

Okay, are we talking about like discharge during sex or just discharge like—

In general. Tell me what you know about female discharge in general.

Honestly, I don't know what— I mean, I know that discharge is a thing. Correct me if I'm wrong. In general, female discharge is a very long, slow, and drawn-out process. It's not like discharge, just like a tablespoon of discharge appears.

Yeah.

Like it is essentially like akin to sweating in a way.

Yeah, it's like you're doing it all throughout the day. You might feel moments of there being a bit more than other times. But yeah, it's not like all of a sudden your underwear are soaking wet.

I mean, I know enough about it to know that I love— I love vaginas and I love, you know, man, it is pretty incredible how they self-clean. And so I appreciate that, like, discharge is the way that it does that. That's pretty cool.

Okay, and what about like during sex itself?

I'm not even sure that it's something that you can be that aware of during sex. Like, it's just all part of like the lubricant, you know, the like lubricate, the, you know, self-lubrication and whatnot, like, right? Like, it's just all part of the mix. So of, I mean, during sex is an activity that produces bodily fluids. And generally, like, those are associated with good times, let's say. So I'm not like, okay, yeah, like lubrication, good. Like, cum, good. Discharge, ew. Like, it's just like, you know, it's all gonna kind of be the same thing. Right? Like, it's just these are the things that occur when we have sex. And I associate those all very positively because they are byproducts of sex, which I love and is highly pleasurable and hot, right? So like, yeah, like they're— it's all a good thing.

I think this question comes from the socialization that we get as women that our genitals are weird and icky and smelly and gross and and look strange and taste strange and smell bad and all of that. Like, it's just, I think for the average woman, it is almost impossible to imagine a man not being grossed out by our vulvas because we've spent our entire lives being told that our vulvas are gross.

I mean, shit, I'm pretty fucking enamored with your vulva. And anything that wants to come out of there, I'm happy with it.

Anything. That's awful. There's not like random objects falling out of there or anything like that.

Whatever is coming out when we're having sex, I'm all for it. I say bring it on.

All right. Do men get upset if their partner needs a vibrator to help with an orgasm?

I think men shouldn't be upset. But I do think that unfortunately, due to some shitty socialization, there are a lot of men that do feel a sort of way about this. But I think that if we were to actually sit down and talk to those men and try to better understand where that's coming from, and maybe give them some, some very, some kind education, I think that most men would stop holding on to that belief. Relief. Um, so I think that the vast majority of men absolutely are not going to get upset if they need a vibe. In fact, like, I can't think of much else hotter than like watching your partner use a toy to get off, especially if I'm in still— if I'm also involved in it. Like, that sounds great. Why would I not want that, right? I do think though that there are some men that, like we were just talking about the socialization, as a man, that you are in charge of the sexual experience. It's your responsibility to know your partner's body better than they do, to give them an orgasm. That's how— that's a measure of how much of a man you are. So if that's the way that you've been brought up and that is what you believe, then what else are you gonna think if your partner's like, "Yeah, you know what? You're not doing it for me. Your dick's not good enough. It's not, you know, it's not doing it for me. I gotta grab something else and help myself." that is completely at odds with that socialization, right? What you are essentially saying without saying is, "You're not enough of a man for me. You're not good enough. You suck at sex. You don't know what you're doing. What's wrong with you?" Now, no woman is actually saying that, is actually using those words, but if you have been socialized as a man to feel like you are 100% ultimately responsible for your partner's pleasure, pleasure, then seeing, hearing them say, "Hey, I need a vibrator to have an orgasm," is gonna feel like a slap in the face. Now, so the answer is not like, "Oh, so then we got to avoid the vibrator at all costs." The answer is we got to start opening the conversation around what our roles actually are when it comes to sex. I think these are really important conversations ideally to be having very early in your relationship. Relationship. Now, most people don't, so they're really important to have today, then tomorrow. Like, start to have these conversations because this really starts to get at kind of some of the really important underlying beliefs around sex and masculinity and gender roles. And I think that being able to start to talk about this, you might start to see, oh, hmm, that, oh, well, if they are, if they really do believe some of this stuff, maybe that's why been having disagreements about this topic or that topic. And at the very least, this helps you either start to move the needle and help them believe, hey, actually sex is something that we totally do together. Or at the very least, it starts to surface, hey, we might have some real differing views, some real opposing views when it comes to this. And honestly, I think a lot of people think, oh, I'd rather not know that we're not compatible in a certain area. Vanessa, honestly, I think the sooner that you can find out that you're incompatible in a certain way, the better, because it gives you the option to take action. It gives you the option to say, you know what, I think this isn't going to work. If you truly want to view sex in this way, that it's all about you doing something to me, and that we don't have a, you know, this isn't a team sport, like, you know, then at least that lets you think about, do I, do I want to be in a sexual relationship with someone for the rest of my my life where we are on different pages about this. I don't think it's a great idea to stay in a long-term relationship with someone, a man, that believes that you using a vibrator during sex to supplement his penis— I don't think that that is a great— I don't think that's a great relationship to be in.

Interesting. He went in a direction I wasn't really expecting. I have a maybe slightly different different take on this, and I want to be really clear and careful. Like, so, okay, in male-female relationships, we've been social— we're talking so much about socialization in this episode, but we've been socialized to believe that intercourse is the main thing, the main event, um, that's, you know, the home run. And intercourse actually is not the thing that is the most pleasurable for most women. The vast majority of women cannot orgasm from penetration alone. It's not how our bodies are literally hardwired to work. I also think that however people experience pleasure and reach orgasm is great and amazing. There's no hierarchy. There's no better or worse than. I also think that, you know, women have been— we've gotten the short end of the orgasm stick for a very long time. We still, you know, are having way fewer orgasms than men are having. So I want women to orgasm, and I want them to orgasm in whatever way feels good for them. All that being said, I do think there's some nuance here around how those orgasms happen, and it's not even specifically about a vibrator, but I think of like, I want, at least in our sex life, I'll just speak about our sex life, I want our sex life to feel like something that we are doing together.

Yes.

And if I imagine some alternate universe where let's say we do some stuff together and then you like stop and you bring out your own toy and you're just using that toy on yourself and making yourself orgasm. If that was what happened every single time, I can imagine that there would be a part of me that would think like, huh, it like, it kind of feels like we're losing the intimacy and the connection. Like he's grabbing his toy. We're not really like doing anything together anymore. I don't feel like I'm a part of like his pleasure and his orgasm and like helping him get there. Like, I can't imagine that that would start to feel disconnecting. So I think with something like a vibrator, I think there is some nuance in how you use it. So if it's like your partner using it on you, or you're the one holding it but the two of you are like making out and your partner's touching all over your body, or you're talking dirty to each other, like, I think that's great. Great. But like the one specific example of somebody just like grabbing the vibrator and like going to town on themselves and not involving their partner, like I can see that starting to maybe hurt a partner's feelings a little bit.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I might revise my answer. If your male partner is like, hey, I would love to know a little bit more about, you know, the vibrator experience for you, and you like, are there, are there ways that we could adjust the way that we're having sex so that, you know, so that like the orgasm is happening more like, like it's something that's happening because we're doing it together to each other rather than, you know, we have sex, I come, and then you finish with a vibrator? Like, are there ways that we could change what we're doing to make this like, not so that we have to have an orgasm at the exact same time, but like that— that it's happening, you know, together between our hands and our mouths and my penis. Is there a way that we could, you know, could we as a team experiment? Not like we have to do this tomorrow, but like, could we figure something out? If that is what your partner is saying, if that is what their, you know, their version of, hey, I'm upset because it just feels like you're always coming on your own and it's like I'm not involved in it at all, but I want to be involved. Involved, then yeah, that's a different story. Because yeah, and then if she's just like, no, I want to come with my vibrator and that's that. Like, that's not a very great— like, he's looking for more connection with you and more exploration with you and you're shutting him down. You're like, no, I kind of want to have the solo experience. That's a very different story. I was kind of— my initial take was really focused on the more stereotypical version of this, which is you shouldn't need to use that. Like, I should be enough for you. Because I think the problem is most men shut down the vibrator thing.

Oh, sorry.

Most men who have a problem with vibrators shut down the vibrator thing and then don't come with any new solutions. That's the part that's not okay to me. I do, I agree with you. I think that ideally we should be trying as— we should be like, hey, let's explore a bunch of different options to see if we can find a way to either incorporate the toy so that it is being used in a connecting experience rather than a solo experience, or even better, let's see if we can find ways between our hands, mouths, and my penis to figure out if we can make this happen. That's really the ideal. But the problem is a lot of men who have problems with this go, "No, this wasn't a problem with my past partners. She always came from intercourse." 'You just got to relax more.' It's like, you know, they kind of go with the spiritual bypassy stuff. 'Oh, I'm supposed to be enough for you.' You know, that is the one that's not okay. If that is how your partner is behaving, that's a 'we got to get to the root of this ASAP and see if we can change your perspective, and if not, I'm out of here.' Like, this is— that is— I hate to be that cut and dry, but that will not be a satisfying sexual relationship for you for the rest of your life. I I promise you.

Yeah, and to be fair, I think the amount of times that what I described happens, that like a woman just gets her toy and like totally checks out and does it on her own, I think that's a very small percentage of times. Like I think the vast majority of the times people are using toys together, and I think that's a great thing. I want people to do that. I think toys are a great addition to the bedroom.

And also mutual masturbation, if you decide, hey, we like each using a toy, toy side by side and we like orgasming like that. Fuck yeah. Keep on doing that.

Yeah, absolutely. We actually have a whole podcast episode about that because it's one of our favorite things. But yeah, I just wanted to like add some nuance to it because I do think it is— yeah, there's some interesting like details that come up in there. All right. Well, let's wrap things up with just a couple of quickfire questions that I'm actually not going to have Xander answer. I am going to have you, listener, dear listener with a male partner, ask these to your partner because these were all preference questions and preferences are just wildly different. I don't think there's even a—

A dime a dozen.

Yeah, and like Xander saying whether or not he thinks men like these or not. So here are the questions for you to ask to your partner. Do you like phone sex? Do you like sexting? Do you like hand jobs? Do you want to have a threesome? Well, maybe don't ask that unless you are offering that. If it's not something that you want to do, maybe you don't need to ask that. But you could just say like, hey, I mean, you could say, I'm not really open to this, but I'm curious if like a threesome is something that you've ever thought about.

To be clear, when this was worded as a question to me, it was threesomes, is this actually a man's dream? So, you know, if you're curious, is this, are threesomes something that you you, you know, kind of— was that something you found yourself thinking about from a young age or something? Might be a question. But yeah, that one might be a little tricky because it might give him the impression that you're offering.

Yeah, same thing with this one: Is anal something they really want? Uh, you know, if you don't want to experiment with that, make sure your partner knows that. And do you like to listen to music during sex? But also, we think that you should listen to music during sex. You should. It's better.

It's honestly better.

All right, that is all for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening. Join us again next week. We release new episodes every Thursday.