E281: Am I the Asshole? Kissing After Oral, Weight Gain, and Bad Sex

And at the end of the day, like, your sex life will be so much better if you just embrace your bodily fluids.

Yeah.

That it's like—

We need shirts. Embrace the bodily fluids.

Like, sex is messy. And it is kinda icky.

Yeah, let's make— let's sexualize the messiness.

Yeah.

Like, if you can, I guess.

There's a slogan in there somewhere, but I can't come up with it. Sexualize the mess. Hello and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin.

I'm a sex therapist with over 20 years of experience, and I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step-by-step techniques for improving yours.

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. We are back today with another round of Am I the Asshole? This is one of my favorite series that we do, and we have to give credit where credit is due. This was originally a Reddit thing, and I think it's still a pretty big, like, Reddit subcommunity.

I thought you were gonna be like, Reddit created this. We have no idea who created the idea Am I the Asshole?

Oh, the idea. Yeah, I don't know the very first person who ever thought, am I the asshole? But it is very popular on Reddit.

AITA.

And that's where we got the inspiration from. But the basic idea behind it is somebody shares a scenario, like a situation that they're in that is leaving them wondering, like, who's in the wrong here? Am I in the wrong here? Is my partner in the wrong here? Like, who's the asshole? So we decided to put our own little twist on it and make these scenarios that are specific to a relationship and really specific to like sex too. 'Cause obviously that's what we talk about. And what we do. So we have a fresh batch of them for you. I think these are really, they're always interesting. It's always interesting to me to see like what are couples, Arguing about— I love gray area too, just personally. I think it's so interesting.

If your relationship has no gray in it, like, I would be shocked. Like, gray, I feel like—

Kudos to you if it doesn't. But yeah, I don't know, actually.

I mean, I think that the gray is what makes life interesting. The gray is what, you know, it's what makes us human. Like, there, you know, I think it's so easy to be like, oh yeah, no, like, there's these absolute right and wrongs and, you know, perfect morality and stuff. And the reality is, When you put most of it into practice, even when you think that you have these very clear, like, yes, no, right, wrong type of things, we very quickly find some gray area.

Humans are messy.

We are.

That's the TL;DR of this episode. So I also think this is a really fun one to listen to with your partner too, and like pause after you hear the scenario and the two of you debate it amongst yourselves and then come back and listen to what we had to say. I think these are really fun too. But before we get into our very first Am I the Asshole? scenario, we have a super quick request of you. Please. Just grab your phone and hit that follow or subscribe button. I know it doesn't seem like that big of a deal. I'm sure you've heard us ask before and been like, ugh, I don't want to. But it genuinely does really help the podcast grow. We want to reach as many couples as we can. We want to help as many people as we can, entertain as many people as we can. And having more people subscribe and follow really helps. Also, if you want to leave a star rating or review.

That, yeah, that's the gold star.

Yes, that makes a majorly big impact. That takes a little bit longer.

It does.

Let's be real. And you can only leave reviews on Apple Podcasts. So if you're like listening on Spotify, you can't really do that. But—

But yeah, you can rate us on Spotify.

Yeah, you can give us a star rating. Really, really important. Thank you so much.

Thanks.

We really appreciate it. Okay, let's get into our first scenario. I, a female, have gained a significant amount of weight in our time together. My partner, a male, doesn't say I need to lose weight or go to the gym, but has taken physical intimacy off the table stating he isn't attracted to me. Am I the asshole for wanting physical intimacy despite what weight I am? Okay, just— okay, first of all, Xander and I have not read these scenarios. We have a team member who puts them together for us because I think It's better when you get our real hot takes. Yeah, when you get our like, hot takes, in-the-moment reactions. So I'm dying that I just gave this nice little speech about like, the gray area, and humans are complicated and messy, and it's interesting to like, feel into these scenarios, and then we're coming out the gate with one that it's like, a very obvious black and white here. Like, I just want to give a big ol' middle finger to this guy. Like, this is— that is so fucked up to tell your partner, I will not be physically intimate with you because you've gained weight.

But I will stay in this relationship with you.

Yeah, that's— yeah, that's really weird.

Like, because for real, he is allowed to not be physically attracted to her.

Yeah, that's what I was gonna say.

But he's a coward if he's like, Oh, well, I'm too scared. I don't want to leave. This relationship is really convenient for me, but I'm just not physically attracted to you.

Yeah.

Like, it's like, shit or get off the pot, buddy. Like, it is fine for you to not be attracted to someone. I think that we undervalue physical attraction very often in relationships. No, that's a whole thing. Well, no, I think that sometimes that we can think, oh, I'm so vain for like wanting somebody physically attractive. I think that is totally okay, but we have to actually live by, like, we have to live and die By that. Like, it is okay to not be physically attracted.

This is hot, spicy tea.

Really? I think it is totally okay to not be physically attracted to someone, but it is not okay to be like, you're not physically attractive, so I'm gonna stick around here, but I'm not gonna do certain things that come with being in a relationship until you address that for me. Like, that's not okay.

Yeah, I agree with that aspect of it. I think, yeah, we are all entitled to have our physical preferences. I'm not saying like you should plop 2 random people together and they have to be attracted to each other. Yeah, of course, we all have preferences and that's okay. Sometimes our preferences are worth examining and trying to get a sense of like—

Oh, for sure.

Why am I so interested in this? But I always wanna be super careful when we're talking about weight because it obviously is an incredible— this is where all the gray is, right? It's an incredibly loaded, nuanced, sensitive thing. And there are so many different reasons why someone might gain weight. And along with that, a lot of different acceptable reactions for somebody to have. So like on one hand, we've had questions from people saying, you know, like my partner has fallen into a deep depression. Like they won't take care of themselves. They're not showering anymore. They're eating horribly. They can't get out of bed. And if it's a, you know, if it's a case where It's truly like your partner is not showing love to their body, respect to their body. They're going through something incredibly challenging and like struggling to take care of themselves. I think that's a really different scenario. And I think it's in that kind of scenario, it's really fucked up to tell your partner like, yeah, no. Like if your partner's dealing with, yeah, mental health illness, mental health issues, like some sort of physical health issues, grief, depression, you know, anything like that. I think that's something different. You know, also, people just gain weight too for no reason. Like, that just happens. Bodies change throughout the course of our lives. That's, you know, part of having a body is that it changes. And I think we actually get ourselves into a lot of trouble when we think, oh, the body I had in my 20s is the body I'm supposed to have for the rest of my life.

Yeah.

Like, this might be— who knows what significant amount of weight means? Like, this might be a woman who feels really self-conscious about gaining like 20 pounds when it's like, Yeah, everybody's going to over the course of life. Whenever we hear stories like this, I always try to think about how I would feel if I was in that person's shoes. And like, yeah, again, if I saw you like not loving yourself, not taking care of yourself, like I think that would be a different scenario for me. If I saw you just gaining weight because you're a human and that's just— something that happens. Yeah, the idea of saying to you like, physical intimacy is off the table because I'm not attracted to you anymore, just feels so unbelievably cruel. So I agree with what you're saying.

Yeah, it's just like, why are we in a relationship? Why are we together? Why are we in a relationship? That's the big deep question. That is such a cruel thing to say. That is crueler, honestly, than being like, hey, this isn't gonna this just isn't gonna work.

Yeah, I mean, I agree with you that anybody can leave a relationship at any point for any reason. Like, that's our prerogative to do. So if this has become such an issue for him that he's like, yeah, I no longer am attracted to my partner, I do think that's a valid reason to end a relationship. I would love for him to examine, like, is this some fatphobia here? Like, is there something else going on? I would love for him to examine that. But at the end of the day, yeah, if he wants to say, Like, hey, I'm just not attracted to you anymore. I'm not feeling that connection, that spark with you. Yeah, walk away. But it feels unbelievably cruel to stay in the relationship but just take physical intimacy off the table. Also, then you're not getting to have any physical intimacy, dude. What is the point here? What's the endgame?

There's clearly some amount of whether conscious or subconscious manipulation going on here where there's some sort of There's some sort of weird dynamic that we aren't privy to.

Yeah, does he think he's like motivating her or something?

Yeah, that is going on. Like, like there's something going on here that we're not aware of. But I think for me, bottom line, just to answer literally the question that was asked of us, are you the asshole for wanting physical intimacy despite what weight you are? Absolutely not. Regardless of what weight you are, if you are in a relationship with someone, a sexual relationship with someone, it is Absolutely normal, encouraged. It is a normal expectation that you should want physical intimacy with your partner and that they should want to have physical intimacy with you. Now, that being said, on the flip side of the coin is that no one in any relationship should be forcing themselves to have sex with their partner if they don't feel comfortable doing it or if they don't want it, right? Like, that is also very important. The thing though is that you need to have some amount of self-awareness around that. If you are finding, hey, I don't feel safe having sex with this person because of something that is happening, I don't feel attracted to this person, and so I don't want to be having sex with them, that is an opportunity for you to very quickly and urgently start asking some questions and probably seek some help.

Yeah.

To help you figure out what's at the root of this. Is this some fatphobia thing? Is this some you know, some vanity type of thing? Or do you need to actually like talk through, hey, am I just at a point where I am just not attracted to this person? And therefore, if I can't meet some of the basic expectations of what a relationship is, then I need to take action.

Yeah.

To get out of this, to not be in a position where I am not able to meet a very standard expectation. You know, it'd be like change out sex for something else. Be like, oh well, um, I am no longer going to do any work around the house because I don't respect you anymore. I used to respect you, but I don't anymore because of what you said last night, and therefore I am no longer doing blah blah blah. Or, you know, it's sort of like tying something to something else. It just doesn't— it doesn't make sense. So yeah, it is totally not okay to be like, Yeah, so physical intimacy is off the table because what is implied in that is until you do X, Y, and Z. He didn't say it out loud. He's probably thinking, oh, I'm being a good guy 'cause I'm not saying it. You're fucking saying it whether it's explicit or implicit.

I hope he doesn't think he's a good guy. This is pretty awful. Okay, yeah, he's the asshole. And like, at the end of the day, every body is deserving of physical intimacy. Like, there is nothing, I don't care what your body looks like, I don't care the shape, the size, the color of your skin, the ability level, anything. Like, just having a body makes you deserving of having physical intimacy with somebody who supposedly loves you.

Yeah.

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No, you're dehydrated. That's my line.

No, I'm talking to our listener. You and I are not dehydrated because—

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All right, let's go. Hello, wanted to reach out and hopefully provide some podcast content for you. I, male penis owner and operator.

Wait, I love owner and operator.

It's good. It's good to operate your equipment.

We sometimes say penis owner, but I've never seen penis owner and operator. I love that.

I guess we could just take out the owner and just, I'm a penis operator.

But I don't know, sometimes I don't mind it.

Yeah, do you do each your own?

Okay, continue.

All right. I, male penis owner and operator, and my wife, female biological, have been together 5 years, married for 1. Ever since we got together, she has always said that she does not like semen in her mouth, like at all, ever. We have tried this once, maybe twice in our time together just to try it again, and she hated it and just says that it grosses her out. This starts to especially feel crummy because I'm the opposite with her. Leave this out if it's too much, but I will absolutely devour her when going down on her. And when we switch positions, cleaning up the drippings, hers, if you will. I'm with you, buddy. I'm definitely not shy when I'm down there and she doesn't seem to mind and even enjoy these acts. But then she acts hesitant to kiss me after I've gone down on her and she really doesn't like going down on me after I've penetrated her vagina. We've had this kind of talk before and she says she will try, but then And there's never any action taken. So I guess I just don't know where to go from there. Am I being unreasonable? Am I the one that's too kinky in this situation? Bonus question that I would like some clarity on. When I'm going down on her, I like to venture a little further south to the old b-hole and explore.

I love this guy.

Yeah, but then—

The old b-hole.

The old b-hole, not the young b-hole, the old b-hole.

The old b-hole.

Hey, old b-hole.

That should be like a rapper's name or something like that. Like Ol' B-Hole.

Ol' B-Hole, yeah. Not Lil B-Hole. I kind of like Lil Ol' B-Hole.

That's it.

Someone take that artist name. It's not a rapper. It is an artist. An artiste.

You're right. You're right. Okay, he likes to venture a little further south.

Yes, uh, to the old b-hole and explore. But then she always gets weird about me going back to her vulva because, see, she thinks she's going to get an infection. That's not real, right? Oh, it is, it is real. I'm just gonna— we're gonna stop right there. That is absolutely real. Never be— never B to V. V to B, all good. B to V, No good.

Yeah.

Okay, for clarity, uh, when this happens, she is typically freshly showered, and I'm not diving in there deep by any means. The tongue stays pretty surface level on the back door. Let's just answer that first. Yeah, let's start there. Totally cool.

There's a lot of different questions in here.

Very, very awesome that you want to go back door, down south to the old b-hole. Absolutely do that, but do not go back to the vagina or the vulva. Until you have like brushed your teeth.

Mouthwash.

Mouthwash, brush your teeth, like basically disinfected because you can get bacteria that can cause an infection in the vulva, vagina.

Yeah, I mean, to be very realistic, if you are talking like freshly showered, you've used soap, like the risk is probably low, but it's just a general guideline to follow. Good rule of thumb, once anything has touched the B-hole, don't. Go back to the vulva.

Yeah, I think the problem is probably this is portrayed in porn a lot.

Yeah.

And that is, you know—

Unfortunately, not a good sex education.

Yeah, not— yeah, which, surprise, surprise, isn't the best sex education. But yes, there has been all kinds of preparation. I'm not saying that it's safe, but it's— they are assuming a risk.

Yes.

Doing it to portray some, you know—

They probably are getting infections and stuff too.

Yeah, but yes, there are probably a lot of infections and people on lots of antibiotics and all of that.

Yeah.

Good stuff, which you don't wanna be on in real life.

And yeah, the reason for this is the vagina keeps itself at a really specific pH. It has like a natural balance of bacteria. You know, a lot of our body has like a natural bacterial balance that it's maintaining, but introducing bacteria from the butthole, anus, rectum into that delicate ecosystem can cause an infection. So she's absolutely right on that one. Don't do that anymore. But let's go back because there are a number of different things in here. Okay, so first is her saying she does not like your semen in her mouth at all, ever. It grosses her out. So my hot take here is I think we have a horrific double standard when it comes to oral sex between a man and a woman. If a man was writing to us saying, I don't want to go down on my wife. It tastes gross. It's weird. I don't like it. People would be up in arms like, fuck this guy. How dare he make her feel bad? Real men eat pussy. Like, everyone would be upset at him, right?

Yeah.

But when a woman is the one saying, oh, I don't like to have semen in my mouth. It grosses me out. Like, all of a sudden that's cool? Make that make sense to me. I think that is completely not cool, and I think it's really insulting and cruel, actually. The bottom line is that bodily fluids are not meant to taste like delicious candy. I mean, I know that you— I know that you and some men are like, I could drink it, I love it.

Well, I mean—

But like, it's not delicious, right? No, it isn't. It's not like drinking fruit juice or Bubble gum, you know? Like, it tastes like bodily fluid.

Yeah, so here's the thing. It does not taste delicious. Like, this is the problem.

It's not delicious, but like—

I do think it tastes delicious, but I'll tell you why. It's because I have sexualized it.

Yeah.

You know, I think probably the first couple of times I went down on someone, like, I didn't really know what to expect. I had heard all the talk of like, you know, all the gross things that people say. Right? I'm not going to repeat all of them, but like, I definitely, when I, the first time I went down on someone, I was not thinking like, oh, hell yeah, this is going to be the best taste ever. I can't wait to get my tongue on this. Right? I mean, I was like, I want to do this because I want the thing that comes in exchange. You know, I mean, I was 16 and I was definitely, you know, I wanted to gain some experience.

It was more about me than it was Oh, I thought you meant you just wanted like a blowjob in return.

Yes, I did.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So wait, wait, did it sound like I said something else?

Oh, I just wasn't sure.

Oh, yeah, no, no. I wanted to start the party so that I could get the favor returned.

That's fair.

You know, as a 16-year-old does.

Who just really wants a blowjob.

I didn't have any like serious relationships through high school or, you know, the tail end of high school where I was also getting action. So it would have been a different story had it been a serious thing. But yeah, so I wasn't expecting it to be great. And honestly, I didn't really start loving it until it was in a committed thing. Because I went from sort of having whatever socialization around like, oh, you're supposed to do it, but maybe it's kind of gross. Oh, you eat pussy? What the hell? Whatever, like all that shit, to associating it with really hot stuff that happens. Like, we are having sex and we're going down on each other. And like, it's like once you— it's like, yeah, we talk about how things can become sexualized, and I think that sometimes that can be in a, in a problematic way. But I think that you can also sexualize things in a really positive way. In a good way, yeah. Where it's like, yeah, I have associated over time the taste of pussy with sex and us having a great time together and feeling connected and feeling pleasure. And so to me now, because I have made that— like, I have literally— those neurons have fired so many times together that, yeah, it's like the best thing in the world. And I do think that that is available to anybody who's willing to do the work to dismantle their own blockages, but then also—

Yes.

Literally do the work to make those neurons fire together and create that connection.

Yeah. So again, we can find a lot— I mean, I feel the same way. I find a lot of enjoyment in it. I think it's really sexy. It's really fun. It's something I enjoy doing for you. If somebody's going to place a glass of semen in front of me and say, do you want to drink this? I'm going to say no.

In a non-sexual situation.

No, no, thank you. It's not like this unbelievable, like, oh, delicious, mm, like, let me have more.

An elixir.

But like, yeah, I've sexualized it, and I enjoy doing that for you, and I enjoy it for myself too. But again, like, the bottom line— so yeah, I just want to normalize, like, it's not supposed to taste delicious. So let's get that out of our heads, and let's also recognize that, like, It's, you know, if you're gonna be in a relationship with somebody, you need to show kindness and respect and love to their body. And telling somebody to their face, you're perfectly normal, natural— and okay, so I'm also gonna assume sometimes people are like, well, my partner has like real hygiene issues, like he never washes. Okay, yeah, of course.

If your partner's never taking a shower— Yeah, then like don't even put your mouth on them.

This is a different story. But like in a normal, healthy, normal hygiene person, like to tell them to their face like your body grosses me out, that is a cruel thing to do. That is just undeniably a cruel thing to do. And we always say like all the time we say look, it's your sex life. You get to make decisions about what you wanna do, what you don't wanna do. I think the whole spitting versus swallowing thing is like, you know, obviously related but like closely intertwined. So it's like you guys get to decide what you wanna do for your sex life. But I truly think that it is cruel to tell your partner that it grosses you out. I think it's just like, that's just a part of sex is you need to accept it. You need to show respect to your partner and kindness to your partner and treat your partner's body the way that you want them to treat you. If it would horrify you for your partner to say, ugh, gross, I don't want to, like, don't do that to them. So I think your partner's being the asshole here.

Yeah. Or like, You have to really take ownership of something that you're not willing to do and then be like, all right, let's talk about what are— like, if you are truly like, this is so gross, I'm just gonna barf any semen, just straight barf, I can't do it. It's like, you got to think about, are you okay being like, all right, look, here's the thing, I want to take oral off the table. I can't go down on you because I cannot have the possibility of semen in my mouth. And therefore, I also cannot— expect you to ever go down on me, 'cause that's totally unfair. So let's just completely take oral off the table, because honestly, like, your bodily fluids just gross me the fuck out. And I don't wanna be anywhere near my bodily fluids on you, yours on me, like, ugh, ugh. Gross, gross, gross, gross, gross. We're gonna just, I need us to accept the fact that our genitals are disgusting, and they can go inside of each other, but they cannot get in our mouths. And it's like, are you willing to have that conversation with a straight face with your partner? Are you willing to tell your friends that? Like, seriously? Because I'm pretty sure the answer is no. I'm pretty sure the answer is no. So I would challenge you to be like, yeah, you either gotta get over it or you gotta lean the fuck in.

Yeah.

And you gotta be willing. It's kind of like in the last question with the guy where it's like, it is okay that you're not attracted to her, but you gotta do something about it. You can't— it's like, Actually lean in. We end up going into the gray— oh, I'm just gonna kind of sit in this weird gray area where, oh, I'm gonna tell him it's gross because it's societally acceptable to say that semen is gross, but I'm not gonna complain when you go down on me. Though I will complain, like, I don't want your mouth anywhere near me when, like, maybe it's got some of my pussy on it.

Well, we have to go to that next.

Yeah, I mean, yeah.

Yeah, okay. I also, I do want to say though, we have heard from some people where they have, like, pretty extreme sensory issues where it's like a real textural thing. So I think that there are some very tiny fringe cases, but again, I think the ultimate message here is like, fucking get over it. Like, this is just a part of having a body. It's a part of having sex. And I think for 99.8% of people who get squicked out about this kind of stuff, it's just internalized sexual shame that we've had.

Yeah.

Like, you grew up hearing the message that this is gross and it's icky and it's weird, and you internalized that. And it's not entirely your fault. But it is your responsibility to get over it and to treat your body and your partner's body with kindness, decency, and respect.

And given what this guy has written, I can say with 99.8% certainty that this is the case. For— that this is not some like, you know, this is not like, oh yeah, you know, she also has all these other sensory issues and like she can't do this food and that food and like it really has an adverse impact. On her life, and like I can see her suffering. I can tell that this is a socialization thing because of some of the other things that she brings up.

So what are those? Yeah, yeah, because we have we have had people reach out saying like I feel really bad about this. Like I don't want this to be the case, but I do have these sensory issues, and it also comes up with this thing.

And yeah, that's not happening.

That's not here. Okay, so then the next part is she doesn't want to kiss me after I've gone down on her.

Yep, tough.

And she doesn't like going down on me after I've penetrated her vagina. So this, I mean, yeah, this is the same issue that, and in a way, actually, it kind of softens it a little bit. Like, she's just really squicked out by bodily fluids in general. It's not just his bodily fluids, it's also hers. But I think the, I would venture to say the majority of women feel this way too, or it's like—

Which is a shame.

It really is a shame, and it really is the result of internalized sexual shame. I mean, how can you grow up as a woman hearing all these dumb jokes about smelling bad and tasting bad and it's gross and icky and like not feel that? I still to this day, like almost every time that you go down on me, there's still some tiny voice in the back of my head that goes, ugh, ugh, ugh. You know, and like I've done so much work on that and I don't like consciously feel that anymore. But it— there's still that like tiny little knee-jerk reaction. So like, I get it. I do get it. I don't think there's any way to grow up in this society and not feel a little bit of that. And I also think it's our responsibility to take that on within ourselves and like dismantle all those blockages and those negative beliefs because they're not serving anyone. And at the end of the day, like, your sex life will be so much better if you just Embrace your bodily fluids. That it's like—

We need shirts. Embrace the bodily fluids.

Like, sex is messy and it is kind of icky.

Yeah, let's make— let's sexualize the messiness.

Yeah.

Like, if you can, yes.

There's a slogan in there somewhere, but I can't come up with it. Sexualize the mess. But like, yeah, it's— sex feels so different when you just lean into it. And you can enjoy the like, yeah, I can taste myself on you. You can taste yourself on me. Like, there's something actually incredibly hot about that. So I think she's in the wrong here as well about not wanting to kiss you after. Also, 'cause it's like, you went down on her. Like, you did something great for her, focusing entirely on her and on her pleasure.

Yeah, now it's like, how dare you kiss me?

Yeah, and then it's like you're coming back up to connect with her after you've just done something for her and they're like, ugh.

Gross!

No, go away! Like, that's—

That's a mixed message.

No, come on. That's so— that's just so defeating and sad. So it's tough. It's like, I get it. I really do sympathize with it. I know what it feels like to feel that. I know where it comes from, and I just really want people to get over it. I really want people to get over it and embrace the mess. Sex is so much more fun When you lean into it and you lean into the bodily fluids.

It's a lovely mess.

Lovely mess.

Okay. That's the shirt. Also props to, um, props to, uh, our, our teammate who got these screenshots in here with 100% battery on her phone. Oh, wow. Usually you see like 5% and you're like, whoa, you're living on the edge, girl.

Okay, so she is the asshole in this situation. I feel a lot of compassion for her.

He is the asshole for trying to go down to the old B-hole without the proper—

From the B-hole to the V-hole.

Without the proper technique. But we can fix that real quick for you, buddy.

Wait, do you see his username? We cannot say it out loud, but it's kind of hilarious in the context of this question.

Get it. Get it, dude. I like this guy.

I really want to read it, but I won't. We got to let this guy have some privacy, but it's funny. Okay, here's our next one. Oh, we're down to 55% battery life on the screenshot. She was coming through. There were a lot of these submissions.

I will say, if you— when you are in the Instagram DMs on a large account, your phone battery, man. If anyone who works at Apple is listening—

Oh, God. Please fix this.

You gotta, you gotta get in touch with Meta and be like, guys, we gotta fix this app because it is destroying our phones.

Sorry, I'm just sitting over here like, I know we're gonna make so many women mad with that response. So I want to hear from you. Like, come over to Spotify and leave a comment for us if you're like, no, like—

Let's get spicy with each other.

Yeah, if you're like, I don't want to taste my bodily fluids, like, that's just a personal preference, whatever. Like, tell us what your argument is against us.

I know, I know.

Honestly, I feel like the vast majority of women right now are super mad at us.

Well, I know the male argument is, and I think that there might be be something similar on the female side. The male argument against like, you're gonna like taste your dick, is that that's gay.

Mm.

That is basically the male thing. It all comes down to homophobia. And I would imagine it's kind of the same, like, ew. Well, it's a combination of like, oh, well, like, why would I want to— like, I don't want to go down on a woman. But combined with, Because women's genitals are gross, including mine.

Yeah. How— like, I don't even—

It's sort of like— it's like a self-hatred homophobia combo.

The fear that straight men have of being gay, just honestly, it makes zero sense. How is your own dick gay?

Yeah.

Like, if your dick is—

How are you gay? By— you're going down— like, you're literally eating pussy.

But you're gay.

And but like— but like, oh God, this Tiny, slightly different— it's like—

A dick being in a pussy again.

I don't really know what dick tastes like. All I know is like what sex tastes like when we're having it, essentially. But like, but it's like she tastes ever so slightly different for like a second. Or it's like kissing you after you've gone down on me. It's like, oh, there's like a slightly different Not even taste, like, scent.

It's ever so slight.

For like a second.

Yeah, and it goes away so fast.

Yeah.

And it's not strong. It's just like the tiniest little whisper of something. But like, how is your— I just can't— like, how is your own dick gay?

Well, I think it's also— I guess it's the same for men. It's also like, ew, well, that's gross. Like, I think it also is a bit of an internalized— oh, like, oh, our genitals are gross. But somehow it's totally okay to just Just stick them inside of each other.

I just don't understand how— like, all straight men are like really into their own dicks.

Yeah, like, it is okay to—

All men are into their dicks.

It's okay to think that your dick is hot and still be straight.

But you can't put it in a vagina and then lick that vagina and there's like, maybe you kind of— that makes you gay. No, it just makes no sense. It makes no sense to me, you guys. It makes no sense.

Yeah, so come over to the comments, guys. What is your pushback on kind of barely tasting your own dick? You're not sucking on your own dick.

For a millisecond.

You're literally tasting like something else that was in contact with your penis.

If you sucked your own dick, does that make you gay? Like, if you're attracted to yourself, does that make you gay?

That means that you masturbate. Like, what?

No, you can't suck your own dick.

Well, I know, no, no, no way.

Okay, I look at myself in the mirror and I was like, I'm looking pretty good today. Does that make me gay?

I mean, I guess maybe we're just straight. We're just all bi. I mean, it does. Yeah. I don't know, man.

We have to move on.

I don't know. We got— okay. Should we keep talking about this?

We're just gonna make everybody angry. It just— let's normalize bodily fluids, guys. They're not absolutely delicious, but let's sexualize the mess. Let's sexualize and normalize it. And it's just like, it's okay. It's all gonna be okay. We are very quickly approaching holiday season.

Oh God.

I'm like already starting to get promotional emails about it. So today I wanted to highlight one of my favorite gifts to give people. I love it personally myself, but I think it also makes a fantastic gift and it's a great gift for that person that you really struggle to get a gift for. Like what on earth can I give to them? A Blissy silk pillowcase. Over 10 million of these have been sold. There are 250,000 5-star reviews. These pillowcases are made with 100% mulberry silk. They're dermatologist recommended. What most people don't realize is that sleeping on a silk pillowcase has huge benefits for your skin and hair. For your skin, it helps reduce sleep creases. It retains moisture. Clinically proven results. in weeks. With your hair, it fights frizz and bedhead, helps reduce breakage, prevents— protects your hairstyle as well.

Plus, it feels really luxurious at the end of the day. Oh my God, it feels so good. It feels like a resort experience in my bedroom.

And they're very cooling too, so if you always sleep hot, you're like trying to find the cool side of the pillow, you will love a Blissy pillowcase. Personally, I've noticed the most impact on my hair because I got frizzy, frizzy hair, so sleeping on One of these pillowcases really makes a big difference. And because you're a listener, Blissy is making holiday gifting even easier with 60 nights risk-free plus an additional 30% off when you shop at blissy.com/pillowpod. That's blissy.com/pillowpod and use code pillowpod to get an additional 30% off. Your skin and hair will thank you. Okay, let's read our next one. Am I the asshole? Sex has never been fun for me.

Bummer.

Husband is super vanilla and I don't need something crazy, but would like different positions. Told him once that it takes forever for him to O and that's why I don't initiate sex so much because it takes hours. I don't withhold it, I just know if I initiate, it's gonna take a very long time, so I never act on the feelings. Foreplay is boring. There's no sexy talk and the penetrated to an O takes him 1+ hours, I'm guessing, over an hour, and it becomes raw and hurts. And even then he can't. When I tell him it hurts, he gets offended. Even BJs and HJs can take hours, in all caps, and never end in an O. He never initiates either. Am I in the wrong for getting tired of vanilla and the time it takes? I told him I'd like us to have sex even when neither of us O, but he doesn't believe that sex Socks can be that way. He believes both have to O for it to be intimacy. Okay, there's like a lot of different things here.

I mean, I have a pretty strong suspicion of exactly what's happening here.

Okay.

I mean, I think that this is almost certainly a death grip situation and probably doing a lot of masturbation and death grip on the side.

Explain what the death grip is.

So the death grip is something that develops slowly over time. It is not something that somebody just starts one day, but typically it is men masturbating to porn using an increasingly tight and tighter grip with their hand, and getting to a point with the tightness of grip that no sex toy or human body could actually replicate. And so you are essentially training yourself to require a level of stimulation that is just not going to be possible without your own hand. And so typically that means that when you start having intercourse with someone with a normal tightness of vagina that is way less tight than this firm grip that you are using, and also probably the speed, grip and speed that you are using, there is no way for you to get very much stimulation because you literally trained your brain to expect a very specific type of stimulation. I mean, in a way, it's very similar to women who who learn to orgasm in a very specific way and struggle to translate that to anything else. It is the same issue. You have literally trained your brain to react to only a certain type of stimulation.

Yeah, so there are, so this is called in the sex therapy world, this is called delayed orgasm or delayed ejaculation. There are other causes for it. What we see most frequently is what you're describing. It's like a masturbation issue. It can also be from medications, SSRIs and anti-anxiety medications, Hormones are frequently the most common culprit. There can also be like some medical conditions that can lead to it as well. That's a lot less common. So yeah, I would definitely— I mean, this is a separate question about like what to do with it. But like, okay, so—

Yeah, well, but talk to it. If you truly have not created like a good situation, you've got to talk to a doctor because there are— yes, there are potentially medications that can help you. with this, but you have to ask for help. That being said, if you are engaging in the death grip, there's no amount of medication that is going to make you all of a sudden respond to a normal vagina.

Yeah. Okay, so let's break this one down though. There— I'm kind of curious about how she's like tied a few of these things together. So first is the question of husband is super vanilla, is she an asshole for wanting sex to be a little bit more kinky?

No.

Yeah, I agree.

Yeah, no. But I would, if I were you, to this listener, I would set that aside. Like, let's focus on trying to figure out the— on trying to just figure out making sex, making some actual vanilla sex relatively equitably enjoyable for you. Then let's move on to ways that you might want to spice things up. But I do totally understand. I think a lot of people think like, oh, well, this vanilla sex that I'm having is not enjoyable. So therefore, the way to have more enjoyable sex is to have kinky sex. And I think that for many people, that is a fallacy.

But she's saying, I don't need anything crazy. I just wanna do different positions.

Yeah. So I think that that's not even— what you want is not actually less vanilla.

It's not even kinky. It's just more variety.

It's just more variety, which is Which is totally fine, but I want to caution you that incorporating some new positions won't solve his delayed ejaculation problem, and it won't make you less raw. That is a real problem that you guys need to address in order for you guys to have a successful sexual relationship.

Yeah. Okay. So let's put that aside. Yeah. You're not an asshole for wanting some different positions at all, but yeah, I agree with you that this is not the central issue. The central issue is that it's taking him forever to get there, which— I don't want to say he's an asshole for that. We don't know what the cause of it is. And even if it's a death grip issue, even if he's the one who caused it, I wouldn't say you're an asshole for causing it. I guarantee you that he is also struggling. He's not having a great time. Yeah.

Though, I mean, it seems like I'm reading between the lines. It seems like they're not having a lot of sex. And it seems like he is— and he's basically saying, oh, well, if I can't orgasm during sex, I'd rather not have it. So I doubt he's initiating very often. Clearly she's not. She's sexed.

I don't blame him. If I was not orgasming all the time, I probably wouldn't want to be initiating sex either. I don't blame him for that. But yeah, it does seem like he is not being Yeah, the only point I'm trying to make is that I don't think he's over here having a great time. Yeah, I love doing it for hours too. Most people— sure, some people might like to have sex for hours every once in a while, but I think most people are like, I'd rather have sex more frequently, but it's shorter.

Yeah, for sure. I was wondering, if it's a death grip thing, I'm wondering, is he off on the side when he's alone, he might be able to come in a couple of minutes with his tight grip, So it's like, what I'm wondering is, is he over here taking care of himself on the one hand and being like, well, I guess we just can't really have intercourse, but I'm good.

Yeah. Okay. So I want to piece this apart a little bit more. She says, I told him once it takes forever for him to O, and that's why I don't initiate sex so much because it takes hours. I think she might be a little bit of an asshole for that one. It really depends on how she said it. Like, there is a gentle way Like, she could have said it really gently, kindly, respectfully, but trying to like put these 2 things together of like, you know, kind of saying like, I want us to connect and I'm sorry that you're going through this. I know this is really hard for you too. Here's the challenge that I'm facing. How do we work together as a team and address it? Like, there is a kind way of saying it. My guess is that like, if she just told him straight up like that, like, it takes you forever to— oh, and that's why I'm never initiating. It takes hours. I'm tired of this.

It's kind of like our first question. I'm not physically attracted to you anymore, so sex is off the table. It's a lighter version of that. Hey, you take forever and it sucks, so I'm just not going to initiate.

I'm not doing it anymore.

But it's like, does that really solve the problem? Because then, well, he could still initiate. And so what is she like? Oh, well, if you initiate, then I'll say yes. So it's like, it doesn't quite—

it feels like a not fully thought Yeah, you might be a little bit of an asshole here for how you've described it. So I think really trying to make it clear that it's like a team effort between the two of you.

Yeah, maybe take some ownership for the fact that you said something that maybe wasn't the most thought through and you can see how it was hurtful and mean.

And then she also says like foreplay's boring, there's no sexy talk. Like, yeah, if you're saying it like that to him too, like foreplay's boring. Like, if you're saying it in a mean way, you are an asshole.

And also, that is not all his responsibility. Like, the way that she's written a lot of this, it kind of seems like she is outsourcing responsibility of all this to him. Well, we don't do more positions.

Yeah.

Or like, oh, our foreplay sucks, blah, blah, blah. Like, you have just as much of a part to play in that as he does. If you want something in your sex life, you need to be able to express that and then work together as a team to make it happen. Not like, hey, buddy, you need to do more foreplay. Hey, we need to do more foreplay. Here's what I'm gonna do to make this happen. Here's what I would like you to do to make this happen. Let's do this together.

Yeah, I agree with that. Okay, then the next part is, when I tell him it hurts, he gets offended. That is just undeniably straight up him being an asshole.

Yeah.

You're not allowed to get offended by your partner being in pain. Like, that's not something that she's consciously choosing to experience. Being in pain during sex is awful.

Yeah.

And sadly, most women have experienced this. A huge percentage of women experience some sort of pain or discomfort almost every time they have sex. This is something that has become way too normalized, and women need to understand pain is not normal. It is not something that we should be forced to endure, and there is a huge connection between feeling pain during sex and low libido. Our bodies are hardwired to avoid pain. If you are experiencing pain during sex, there is no way you're gonna have a sex drive. Your body learns, oh, pain bad. Don't want that. It's like, who craves putting your hand on a hot stove? Nobody. Well, maybe there's a couple of weirdos out there. But like, your body's like, that is painful. I do not want that. I will not do that. It's the same with pain during sex. So yeah, for him to say that he's getting offended— again, we don't know exactly how she said this. If she's saying it in a rude way of like, you fucking asshole, you take too long to come and it gives me a lot of pain, what's wrong with you? Like, yeah, okay, sure, maybe he'll get offended like that. But if it's like, hey, I'm trying to be your teammate in this, I don't know what to do, I'm struggling because I'm in pain, and then he's making her feel bad about it, then that's a different thing.

Yeah, I want to give you as long as you need. and I'm reaching a point where it's starting to become painful, and I don't know what to do.

Yeah.

And this is where you tie it to actually doing something about this. I don't know what to do because I feel like I'm trying to do all the things that I can to support us having a sex life and support you getting to orgasm. I don't know what else to do. Is there something else that we could do together to try to approach this problem? I think that this is— what we're seeing are the classic symptoms of the sort of the typical male head in the sand when it comes to any kind of erectile dysfunction, whether that is delayed orgasm or premature ejaculation or losing erections, struggling to get hard. It is the typical, oh God, like, I just don't want to talk to a doctor about it. I don't want to ask for help. I just want to pretend that it's not a problem. And a lot of men, crazily enough, despite men getting the stereotype as, oh, they just want sex anytime, anywhere, So many men will go, well, I guess I would rather not ever have sex than have to acknowledge that there's a problem with my penis and talk to a doctor. Nowadays, you don't even have to do it face-to-face.

Mm-hmm.

My God, as much as like some of these, like, you know, online ED med things seem to be really overprescribed, you don't need to literally, like, you don't need to even see someone's face anymore to do it. So yeah, it's time to get your head out of the sand.

Yeah. Okay. And then there's one last part of it here where she's saying, I want us to have sex where neither of us O, but he doesn't believe it can be that way. He believes we both have to O for it to be intimacy. So first of all, he's wrong. Like, an orgasm is not required for intimacy. Sex can— I mean, this is the thing about— okay, I love orgasms. I have a whole course, multiple courses on teaching women how to orgasm. I love orgasms. I want to have an orgasm every single time. And the reality of sex is that orgasm typically comes at the end. It's 2 to 20 seconds on average, and you can have sex with each other the whole rest of the time. So are we saying like only that little tiny bit at the end counts as intimacy and the rest is not intimate at all? Like, of course not.

Nah, doggy.

That is very silly. So you don't have to have an orgasm in order for there to be intimacy. Actually, I would say like you can have, you can have an orgasm that has zero intimacy in it easily, right?

You can have a just getting it done type of orgasm.

Yeah, like the intimacy is in the whole experience, the energy that you're creating together, the way that you're showing up for each other, the vulnerability, the connection, The eye contact, the words that you're saying, the ways you're touching each other's bodies. Like, that's where the intimacy lies. But I am curious, like, okay, so she's saying, I want us to have sex even when neither of us orgasms. Do you think that that's— why do you think she's offering that? Do you think that is coming from a genuine place of like, oh, I like sex even when we don't orgasm, or do you think that's kind of like a protective mechanism for her of like, I just need to stop after 30 minutes. I don't want to be rubbed raw anymore.

I don't know. That's a really good question. I mean, I guess I would be curious to ask her, are you saying that you want to have sex? Wait, did you just say socks?

Did I?

I think you might have. I was talking and then half of my brain was analyzing Did she just say socks on the podcast?

Like, I— well, okay, she did, because she—

I know she wrote it.

She wrote socks. Um, I did do that, I think last week though. That was the first time in the podcast where I said socks. It's because if you don't know what the fuck we're talking about— yeah, we've never— I don't think we've ever explained this on, on the podcast. I think we have. So on Instagram, we can't say sex because the little algorithm picks it up.

Yeah, bananas.

It always pulls our content down. We've gotten our account flagged countless times. We've gotten warning messages like, you're in violation of community guidelines. We're gonna pull your— they have threatened to take our account down. And technically, we are in violation of community guidelines. No sexual content is allowed technically on Instagram. And people are always like, but what about the OnlyFans models? There's all these ladies with their boobs out.

Yeah, shut 'em down.

I don't get it.

Not shut 'em down, but I mean, if you're gonna start shutting accounts down, Let's start with the ones that are like, that are like actually showing nudity or whatever. Like rather than the accounts that are trying to— sorry, trying to like— I thought, okay, I'm not trying to be like, I'm not trying to be anti-sex work. Yeah, I know. On OnlyFans, that's—

so anyways, we cannot use the word sex. Yes, it drives us absolutely crazy. We originally were like bleeping all of our content and people were complaining like, it's so annoying. It's like, it's impossible.

There were so many bleeps. I was like, no, I don't know what— I don't even know. I don't remember what I said anymore.

So we started using the word socks instead of sex, which now I am actually very fond of. At first it was annoying. We were— oh, because first we went to S-E-C-S, so we were still saying— yeah, we were like typing out S-E-C-S and it still freaking flagged us. So I was like, God, we can't even do that. A lot of other people use segs, which I just don't like at all. Segs.

Yeah, it's better to use a real word.

So I randomly picked socks. I was like, that's close enough. Socks. I don't know. Could have done sacks too.

But socks, it actually works in most sentences. So it's, I like to have a lot of socks.

And now I kind of like it. And people are like, you got to make merch. I'm like, oh my God, we should be doing this. I love my socks Oh yeah, we have to have a socks line. Socks lover. Sexy socks. Yeah, let us know. Come over to Instagram or Spotify and tell us what the name of our socks brand, and would you buy socks from us? But anyways, yes, now I've said socks so many times that now I'm starting to say it here on the podcast.

Wow. Now, what was a point I was trying to make here? I think that what I was trying to say is I would be curious to ask her, Like, do you— are you going into a sexual situation thinking, I would love to have 10 minutes of sex where neither of us orgasm? Or are you trying to make it okay for you to have these situations where presumably he initiates, 'cause you're not initiating anymore, where you start having sex and then at the point where you are like, hey, I'm in pain, I need to stop, are you trying to create a situation where that becomes okay?

Mm-hmm.

Because, I mean, I feel like neither of those are great outcomes. Like, if you're like, oh, I'd like to be having orgasms, but I guess I don't need to, like, that sucks. And if you're like, oh, well, I want us to be having sex, but I just can't go longer than this whatever minute, it's almost like you've just sort of given up that he's ever going to be able to address this delayed orgasm.

Mm-hmm.

And it's like, no, like, I think that we're trying to solve the wrong problems. We gotta focus on the actual Delayed ejaculation, because that is a solvable problem. Yeah, that is absolutely solvable. He just has to be willing to solve it or maybe stop engaging in things that might be causing it.

All right, well, we're gonna have to wrap it up here.

Um, these were good.

These were good. We got— we only got into 3 of them.

We're gonna get— we're gonna do another one with the rest of these.

I just— I love these. They're so interesting. Even with one that we were like, oh, this one is so obvious, like, we still only got through 3 of them. Yeah, we have like a whole other list of ones that got submitted. So we'll come back. We love this series so much. But come on over to Spotify. Let us know, do you agree with us? Disagree with us? How angry did we get you?

Yeah.

Talking about bodily fluids.

You fired up about bodily fluids or what?

'Cause we are. 'Cause we are. You're like a bodily fluid defense fund or something like that.

Oh, man.

All right, well, thanks so much for listening. That is all for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Join us again next week. We release new episodes every Thursday.