How to scale from $2K/month to $100K/month in 97 mins

So dude, tell me about your business.

All right, man. So I used to be a photographer and videographer based in Amsterdam. Yeah, I did it for like 10 years, and then I started sharing my secrets online on Instagram when TikTok came along. I learned this from Alex Hormozi: share your secrets, sell the implementation. I shared it, it blew up, got 75,000 followers. I made no money from that at all, almost. And so I came to Bali 'cause I know that everyone here does similar things and my coaches were here. So I came here, met a guy that makes a million a month, and I was like, how do I make money from it? He told me to do sales calls. So I started doing that. Then I started making money at the beginning. Yeah, nothing. But then all my followers were photographers basically, but they don't have so much purchasing power or the mindset to invest in a coach. And so once I worked with a coach, she suddenly referred me to 10 friends, and it's much easier to work with them. And she, like, she wanted to work with me much longer. And so I'm like, I think one of the big struggles is I'm kind of in a pivoting moment from photographers, which is all my followers, to coaches, entrepreneurs, leaders. But the thing is, when I post for coaches I don't get so much views. And then when I don't get views, people look at my Instagram and they see, oh, you have 140,000 followers, but you get no engagement. And then when I post for photographers, you know, it's a miss or hit, but often I can get 1,000 likes, um, 500 likes, things like that. And then it works. Yeah, but that's the main problem, I'd say.

Okay, so your Instagram is built on photography people. And now when you post— and, and, and what do you want to do next? What's like the dream offering avatar and stuff?

Well, the richer the better, it's just more fun. The, the, the, the dream is to work with billionaires.

Beginners?

Billionaires.

Oh, billionaires. Yeah. And how do you want to help them?

Uh, growing their personal brands and be as efficient as possible about it.

And is this the direction that you're trying to go in now, helping wealthy people build their personal brands?

Yeah, I already am. Yeah, it's already working. But then, you know, I lose my credibility and authority because I don't get engagement when I post for them.

So just describe like your dream customer. To me, like right now, that you would sell to now?

That I sell to right now?

Yeah.

My favorite client was a health coach, so a detox health coach, and we worked together for many months. And, um, yeah, she, she, she was at 20,000 followers. I helped her bring her to 75,000 followers. Now she has 90, and We grew our business a lot with a lot of leads and we built a lot of, like, content systems and efficiency systems, and I hired video editors for her and I built her recording studio, things like that.

So, you helped her to basically grow her brand? Yeah. And get more customers? Yeah.

We had one post that got 20,000 leads. Like comments.

Wow.

And then I helped her with a ManyChat automation or with like DM setters, CTAs, everything with the business actually.

Okay. Okay. So that's kind of what you're doing right now is growing people's brands so they can get more customers. And do you help them with the getting customers side, the funnels and ads and Ads, not—

I'm not an expert on that, but I would help to find someone. The funnels, yes.

And offer copy?

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Okay.

Brand positioning.

So really, right now, would you say that your niche is coaches, but your dream niche is rich and wealthy people that don't have a personal brand yet?

Or no, they already have maybe a small personal brand, they struggle with it, um, or that they don't have.

Yeah. And is the point of the personal brand to sell coaching?

Um, I'm good at that. Yeah, I'd say I'm specialized in that. That's so— selling information.

Yeah. So there's kind of two parts to it then, isn't there? There's the getting the audience and selling something to the audience.

Yeah.

And you help with both?

Well, I'd say I'm more focused on the business side. Like, getting a lot of views without getting clients is not some— like, I can tell them to do dances and all the trendy stuff, but I don't really believe in it. I'd rather believe in building, like, a deeper connection with people. So it's not really, like, get famous. It's more get leads.

Get leads.

I'm good at getting leads.

This is what I was trying to drill down to. I'm trying to understand the layers of the offer and what you do for them. So yeah, so it's growing the brand, getting more customers, plus more leads as well, and What would you say your problems are right now? Let's list them out.

Well, sales would be a big one. I'm not so good at objection handling, and I have a lot of limiting beliefs about sales. I, I hate being sold to, so it's hard for me to sell to other people if it's not genuine. And I try to be as genuine as possible. And I think you have the same thing from my experience of doing a sales call with you.

What, did we do a sales call?

Well, not with you specifically, but with your team.

Oh, you had a call with my team?

Yeah.

When was that?

I think 2 years ago.

2 years ago? Yeah. Jesus Christ, okay, now that's a long time ago, man.

Maybe a year.

Yeah, yeah. And what, what, what was the reason that you didn't buy?

I don't remember, it was a long time ago, but I felt like it was— I already bought coaching from like Cole Gordon, for example, for $15K there.

Yeah.

Um, from other people, and I feel like everything is very similar to each other. So I was like, it's all similar, let me just stick to what I have right now. It's not—

yeah. And how has that worked out from where you are then to where you are now? Have you seen a lot of growth? Has a lot of good stuff happened?

Some growth, not— well, I've raised my prices, which is great.

From what to what?

So, it used to be $2,500 at the beginning, and then I raised it to $5,000, and then now I am raising it to $15,000. And it's not really I'm raising my prices, it's more like I'm asking people to commit for 3 months of working with me rather than 1 month.

Okay, so it's going to be $15K, and how long do they get you for?

$15K, 3 months.

3 months?

Yeah, every week a call. And then I'm also starting to pitch an offer of $30K, which is I would fly to people's home to build a setup for 4 days, record them, and do a lot of the things for them. So it's more done for you rather than done with you.

Hmm, cool. And do you offer them both straight away?

Uh, it depends who I'm talking to. Um, but I'd— yeah, I would. I also have a $5K offer for people who I see don't have so much money, and it's just one month working together and two calls.

Right, so now it's $15K for 3 months done with you, done with you, and $5K also, um, done with you 1 month, 2 calls.

So $5K, $15K, and $30K, right?

Okay, I'm starting again. I'm starting again so that I can get organized.

I'm trying not to pitch the $5K. It's only when I see people don't have so much money.

Yeah. Right. So the $5K, just tell me what they get.

It's 1 month of me helping them, but 2 calls.

Same for the $15K.

The $15K is every week a call. So 4 calls a month. So 12 calls, I think it is.

Oh, so that's 3 months.

3 months. Yeah.

Yeah. So that's 1 month. That is 3 months. It's kind of 12 calls.

Yes.

And that is where you fly to the house. Is that kind of that as well?

Yeah. The $30K is the same, but then me flying to them and doing things for them. So I would hire the video editors for them. I'd pay them. It's more done for you.

Nice. And you decide, so basically, and you sell through sales calls?

Yes.

Yeah, so when you get someone on a call, you kind of decide which one you're going to pitch them?

Yeah, sometimes I would pitch all of them if I can't read, really. But yeah, I'm not good at objection handling, so I just like, I believe in being transparent, so I'd often be transparent. But often I would try to go for a $15K.

$15K? Yeah. But let's, let's look at some numbers. So what is your close rate for the last 30 calls that you've taken?

Um, 5% maybe.

5%?

Maybe 10%. It's pretty low. Yeah.

Do you, do you track it on a tracking sheet? No, no, no.

That's why Cole Gordon fired me.

Okay. And just have your best guess on how many you closed of the last 30, like 2, 3, 4?

I didn't close anyone. I closed one person who paid me $2K for 2 calls. He was like, oh yeah, I want to join, but I don't want to pay upfront. I'm a bit scared. So he paid me $1K and I was like, okay, well, let me do this. And then he paid another K. So it was a little bit, yeah. Hmm.

Okay. And so of your last 30 calls, one sale?

Yeah, you can, yeah. Yeah, I think so. Yeah.

So close rate would be like 3%, 4% ish. So call it 4%.

Maybe I close another person, but I don't— I don't remember.

Okay. Okay. No worries. Yes. And let's just keep kind of putting the pieces of the puzzle together. So where is it? And we're in February now. How much have you made this month?

2K.

2K?

Yeah.

How much did you make last month?

Zero. Okay, that goes into some different things.

Go on, tell me more.

Well, I had to pay a lot of taxes, so I kind of lost my motivation, and then I worked on the whole tax structure and You know, I was actually also running after shiny objects, which was real estate. So, I had some, yeah.

Tell me more about the real estate. Were you gonna buy like a house or something? No, no, no.

So, actually, there are two people that I met. They both work with billionaires very closely. And that's where I'm wanting to go to.

Okay.

But one of those billionaires has a huge portfolio and he was selling real estate and he was looking for someone to buy. And I was like, hey, I work with a lot of rich people. I can maybe find you someone. And I helped him find someone and then I signed a contract and if they didn't close, but if they would close, I would make more money than I would make in a whole year. And so I was thinking, huh, maybe I should do, maybe I should really go that direction. Because if I can, it's easier work. And I barely need to do anything other than network with people and connect people together, and I make much more than I've ever made in a year, then why not?

What if that worked out? Roughly how much would you make?

$200K.

$200K US? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Maybe more, maybe less. It depends on how much it would—

Maybe we should scrap what we're talking about and talk about that instead then. No?

Well, I don't know anyone who builds systems for that. I don't see, like, it's not a proven model yet. It's more of a luck kind of thing. Not a luck, but yes.

Okay. No, fair enough. Let's stick on this subject for a second. So, how long have you been doing this so far?

How long have I? 4, 5 years. 5 years.

So, you've been selling this offer for about 5 years?

No, yeah, I've been selling a $5K offers for one month for, let's say, 3 years.

3 years?

Yeah, or maybe 2 years, I don't know, something like that.

Okay, okay.

Maybe even one.

You were selling it and let's take last year, how much did you do cash collected for 2025, roughly?

Cash collected. I think it was $160,000.

$160,000? Mm-hmm. And were you happy with that or did you want to make more?

I had mixed feelings. I had to pay a lot in taxes, so I was pretty pissed about that.

Yeah, I hate tax.

Yeah. So I changed my structure, but, and it really demotivated me from ever doing anything again. Yeah. So that's why I really lost it at the end of the year with the real estate and this. But I mean, it's okay. It's very comfortable.

Comfortable.

Yeah, very comfortable. But for sure, I'd want to do more.

You definitely want to do more.

Yeah. I mean, otherwise you wouldn't be here.

What? You wouldn't be here, would you, if you didn't want to make more, I guess?

Well, I think one of the things that I'm really looking for is how do I, like, go higher ticket, sell something for $50K or $100K, because that seems like the dream rather than, you know, managing a lot of employees and working really hard. Like, it's something I would want to do. And what you did, for example, sell a company, I guess that's also a dream.

Hmm.

But selling high ticket, selling something for 100K is a dream.

Okay, okay. So one of your problems is charging much higher prices, right? One problem is sales and objection handling. What are some of the problems that you have right now, man?

Hiring salespeople, DM setters, and, and closers, um, would be another thing.

The—

but But another thing would be the, the, the, the brand pos— or the shifting from photographers to coaches without losing my credibility. I can tell you more about that problem if you want.

Yeah, shifting niches, uh, to coaches, right? Yeah. Okay, that one, tracking sheet for calls, I would say New IG for new— Tell me more about that.

So it's almost a, it's a big shift because with photographers I can say, hey, I made $20K, $30K a month with, with, with photography. I can help you do that. And I help people grow to $50K a month with, as a photographer. And so for them it's like, oh my God, this is crazy. But then you need to do a lot of objection handling and it's really uncomfortable for them to pay a lot of money. And they would pay you $5K, $15K is, I've never managed to get that out of photographer.

Okay.

So $5K, $10K. But I have a lot of those followers and I can pretty much continue in that, it's easy. But it's not really where my passion is at. I don't do photography for a really long time. Videography, you know, that's the middle thing. Um, and then when I go to coaches, then it's like what's interesting for them is not how much money I made, so I lose that credibility completely. But it is, uh, it is, it is— I, I don't lose it completely because some coach, like, I helped coaches grow to $75,000 a month, and so that's interesting for them. But they're more interested in the leads and the followers. But then when they see that I talk to them and I get 30 likes a post because all my followers are photographers and they're not interested in the coaching stuff, then I would lose the credibility because then they would say, oh, you have a lot of followers but no one is engaging with you. Something's off. So the middle part would be to make content for photographers and coaches, which, yeah, which is something.

Yeah, we— let's come back to that. Let's come back to that. How many calls per month are you booking right now?

Uh, right now it's very low, but, um, right now it's what, 10 a month?

About 10?

Yeah, but, but it, you know, I tried to hire sales team, like ADM sitter and a closer, and then it was 16 calls a day sometimes. Hmm, 16, 1-6.

Well, you were booking 16 calls a day?

Yeah, uh, well, on a lucky day, I'd say. So sometimes it was 5 calls a day, sometimes it was 10 calls a day. That was when Instagram was more in his growth phase. And it was, by the way, I don't do ever, like, I tried ads a little bit, but I never made it work. So it's all organic.

Organic. And when was that? What month and what year was that when that happened?

I'd say a year ago.

About a year. So like February last year, maybe mid-year.

Yeah, middle of the year.

Yeah. And you had one setter.

I think one setter, maybe two.

Yeah, one or two setters. One closer?

One, then two.

Yep, yep.

But they didn't close.

No closes?

You know, one, two, three, but yeah, not so much closes. No, they were doing a lot of calls and barely closing anyone.

Yeah, skills.

And that's where I would go into my mind and think, like, there's so much wrong with the business. Like, the offer is maybe not perfect. I don't know if the price point is perfect. I don't have a sales script. And Cole Gordon, my coach, he would say you should grow to $100K a month all alone, which I really like that idea. But it's been hard.

Interesting.

Like maybe with a DM setter, but you should close everything yourself.

And I do agree with that.

Yeah. And his thing, like Cole Gordon, is like his offer is we will place closers and DM setters in your offer or you don't pay. But then they sell you on the best salesperson is the owner. So you should sell first. So let's not hire people for you. Hmm.

Interesting.

Which is an inspiring perspective, to be honest.

What? Inspiring?

Inspiring perspective. Like, it's inspiring that he has an offer like this, which is like one sentence, and then he helps you, you know, he feeds you the ham, but he gives you the pill.

Yeah. Do you like that or not?

Yeah, I kind of like that.

Yeah. Okay, so let's come back to this. So I know your offers close rate is very low. You're booking about 10 calls a month. And, and back when you were setting like, you know, 10, 15 a day last year, was that from your setter or from your content setter? Yeah, just hammering your leads and booking them for calls.

Yeah, talking to them.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

A few other problems that I can come up with.

Cool. What? Yeah. Yep. Yeah.

One is I have a feeling that there is a market fatigue to DM setters and salespeople. People don't want to hop on calls anymore or don't want to answer DMs because they know that all the coaches are just hopping on calls and then giving a ridiculous price and everyone does the same thing. That's my feeling. And the second limiting beliefs, or the second thing I struggle with, is hiring, because I expect people to be entrepreneurial like me, and I don't like really managing people, like giving them motivation, things like that. So I hire people and then they leave. It's a common thing, or they don't perform and then I, yeah, don't continue.

Sorry, mate, just say that one more time. I was just focusing on that. Just say that one more time.

Which one?

That, that last point that you made there. I think it was about hiring, wasn't it?

Yes, it was, uh, hiring. So I would hire people, then I would expect them to— like, I don't like managing people, so I would expect them to be self-motivated and to, to do everything that's needed to be done, but, or I find them just not doing what they need to do, or, and then we end up not working together, or I, or they just end up leaving because also, you know, I don't have proven systems on how to get clients so much. And when I have, when I work with people, I kind of want them to have this drive, have this like and help figure out the systems and I don't have clear SOPs. I like working with like-minded people, but then I think also they would go work for themselves. And so I struggle hiring. There is a fast rotation. I hire them, they work with me for a month, two, and then it moves on. So I tried twice to hire sales teams. It twice didn't work out. Or maybe even more times.

Why didn't it work out, like, specifically?

Because they don't close. And then I go into myself and I think, okay, well, what is the problem? Is the offer? Is it the script? Is it the guarantees? Is it like— there's so many things that I can change in my business that it becomes so overwhelming that I don't know where to focus on.

I'm going to solve that for you today. Okay, so sales team doesn't work, and then when I ask you why doesn't the sales team work, your answer is what?

They don't close. And then they, you know, one would blame the DM setter, the DM setter would blame the closer, which is a classic thing. And then they would both blame the content or the, like, you know, sometimes closers, they would be like, oh yeah, it's super warm leads. They're not really warm leads. I do short-form content, not long-form content.

So if a sales rep can't close, it's either skill, culture, or lead quality.

It's all of them.

Or all of them. Yeah. And for you, do you think it was all of them?

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, yeah.

No problem. Good. Okay, we'll come back to that. Now, at the moment, where does your traffic come from? I know IG is one. Is there anywhere else where traffic comes from?

Just a little bit of IG. Yeah, yeah. Sorry. Just a little bit of YT. YouTube.

YouTube. Yep.

Yeah. Anywhere else?

Like email ads?

I don't do emails. No, I have emails. I don't do them.

Do you have a list?

Yeah. 16,000, I think. I got one sales call this month from ChatGPT.

What?

Yes.

How?

The guy was like, oh yeah, I'm looking for a marketing agency. He spoke with AI. He was like, I'm looking for a marketing agency that can help me. And he did travel agency. He had a travel agency in Africa and he's Dutch and I'm Dutch as well. And my Google Maps is in the Netherlands also.

Yeah.

And so he just asked that and he was like, oh yes, like Sam I Am is one of the guys who can help you. So one of the lists. Then he looked at my website, he was like, this looks good.

Oh, they went to the website.

Yeah.

And booked a call from the website.

Yes. And another shiny object that I have is collecting testimonials lately. So I went from like 30 or 20 Google reviews to 60 really quickly now. And I'm thinking if I grow it even more, maybe I'll get more from AI or—

Yeah, I like it. I like it. And any other sources of traffic?

No, but the website is a big one. I, when I was a photographer, I used to get the best clients, like B2B clients with huge budgets, uh, from my website, uh, itself.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, how did they get to the website?

They were looking corporate event photographer Amsterdam or event photographer Amsterdam, and I would rank one of the number one organically. Organically?

Wow.

And It's because in Amsterdam there's a lot of conferences. And so companies from all over the world would fly to Amsterdam and they would look for a photographer. And then they had huge budgets and they would just pick the first one they came to and book him. And so one, like, I made a lot of money with that. I lost all that money since moving to coaching. So I'm always thinking, how can I bring that back? Because I think no one is doing that.

I think I agree with that. We can talk about that in a minute. Yeah, so that's that. Any other sources apart from that?

What?

Any other sources?

Uh, you have referrals?

Referrals? Yep.

Yes, so I got a lot of clients from referrals last year, um, because of that health coach. She just referred 10 people to me.

Yep.

And sometimes people would talk about me and someone else would book a call, so that's, uh, Yeah, word of mouth.

Got it, got it. And what's the sales process or the sales funnel?

Actually, another one would be meeting people in real life. So at the gym, networking, that's a big one. I actually got a few clients from that.

Cool. Yeah. And then let's say from Instagram, what's the sales process?

Uh, for Instagram is every CTA goes, or to a free course. It would go to a free course. All my knowledge I share for free. I used to sell my course for $2,000 or $2,500, and now everyone gets it for free.

Yep.

Which devalues it as well. People would pay attention to it less, of course.

Yeah.

But I think that's a great way to get people to the website and to get people to stay longer on the website, which will Increase organic reach on Google. Yeah, but free call, free course. And there's always like, hey, if you want a free call with me, here's the link.

Yeah. So that pushes to a sales call.

Yeah. So everything leads to a sales call.

Yeah.

Or they would go to my bio and book a sales call or DM or I would DM. I'm the DM setter right now. Right.

That's one. To— what's the link in your Instagram bio? Does it go to a VSL?

It goes to my website, which has a VSL. Yes. And it has everything written down in text as well with a lot of photos and proof and case studies.

Yep. And yeah, yeah. Cool. So sales process 1, free course to sales call. Sales process 2, VSL to sales call through the website. Any others?

I don't do webinars. There is a, like, when you go to my website, or sometimes when I ask, when they ask for CTA, it would go to like a survey. Yeah. And then that survey would go to the call. And if they didn't book a call, it would basically send them, and it's basically connected to AI, and then it will collect all the data. It will go and review their Instagram, their websites, and then it will send them a personalized email and sometimes they will go book from there.

Okay, okay. Right, now in terms of growing this business, tell me, when did the last person buy again? You said it was like 2 weeks ago?

Yeah, yeah, 3 weeks ago.

Yeah. Who was that customer? What was their business and niche?

But he didn't buy the full thing, right?

No.

So, he's not an ideal client, but he is a, how do you call it, he teaches doctors how to do operations on the mouth. He teaches dentists how to do operations.

Wow.

So, he's in the health industry.

Must charge a lot of money for that.

Not so much, to be honest.

No? No. Wow, that's— do you know what he charges, by the way?

Yeah, yeah, uh, 3K. He does workshops, so it's like 3K there, maybe 6K there. So cool. I mean, yeah, it's good, but he works with the Turkish market or with markets where it's like not so much money.

So I see he's in a poorer segment of the market.

He's German, but he works with Turkish people because he's Turkish, and he works with Germans as well and Europeans. So Yeah, but we got him good. Like, I did one call with him. On the call, I made him make a post, and he already made his money back from this post because it got him the most leads he ever got, and it got him a client.

When that happened, did you try and upsell him a bigger program?

Um, no, I— so he paid $1K. And then we did this call, and then he paid another K on the second call, and the third call he cancelled. Why? I don't know. He's not very communicative. I guess he's really busy.

Okay, fair enough.

But he cancelled the third call. We have another call, I think tomorrow. We'll see how that goes. But yeah.

Got it. Tell me, broadly speaking, What do you want right now?

People to pay $15K, right? Or more, right? So, so, North Star, $100K a month would be the dream, right?

$100K a month, high-paying clients, that's the North Star.

Yeah, not working with like 100 clients but working with like 5, 7 clients, uh, or, or even less. Like, just, just simplicity. I love simplicity. And I mean, if I can get one client that pays $100K, that would be even better.

But yeah, you know where I think you're going to struggle, right? I think that me and you today, we can figure out the avatar and the offer, but I think you might struggle to sell it because you've got to be a very good closer. To close expensive deals.

But don't, like, rich people just buy based on logic rather than, you know, like, objection handling and stuff like that?

Yes and no. Yes and no. Like, yes, because they've got the money, and if it makes logical sense, they're kind of 90% there. But everybody has human fear and doubt, right? You know, and if there's one thing that I've learned, if you don't close someone on the first call that you have, the chance of them buying later is almost non-existent. And to get them to buy on the first call, you have to be a good closer because people are naturally scared.

Well, that's, that's new insight for me. I never, I never heard that before.

Oh dude, that is— I, we— so in my old company We built the data, we tracked 500 calls. Yeah. And we looked at the close rate on the first call. And then if they got off the first call, what did they close in the future? And I can't remember exactly, but the close rate was like 7% or something for people that left the first call. And you'll know this already, when people leave the first call, they're always like, yeah, I just need to speak to my wife and yeah, I'll get the money and we'll have another call next week and whatever else. Almost all of them are talking shit, right? If someone gets off that first call, the chance of them going on to buy is close to zero. So you have to close on call number one. It's, it's critical, it's crucial, right? And to close on call number one, you have to be a skilled salesperson, and you have to push, and you have to handle objections and hold them accountable, and hit both logic and emotion. I'm like, cool, what are your thoughts?

Yeah, that's, that's, uh, yeah, lots of emotions, but let it all out, let it all out. Well, I, I just always try to think, what would I, I like to have done for me, right? What would I—

perspective.

And, and, you know, because of that, I, I tell people like, hey, you, you can get your money back. Like, I, if you're not happy, I will send you your money back.

Yeah.

And so I tell them like, hey, we can do 2 calls, and if you don't like them, I'll send you 100% of your money back. After that, if you take like a month of my time or 2 months of my time, then I'll just refund you the parts that, you know, you, you didn't get. So I, you know, I try to be transparent and good in an industry that's bad. I don't say bad, but it's manipulative, I'd say. I don't like the manipulative stuff.

Hey dude, you know what, right? I agree. And I'm quite a soft person, you know. I don't like conflict. I don't like fighting. It's not in my nature. But I've learned that people, humans, are not good at making decisions.

Right?

Humans are not good at making decisions. And you've had a lot of sales calls with people that if you were more pushy and aggressive and maybe more manipulative, they would have bought and you would have really helped them. That's the truth.

Well, I had it. I had— I'm trying sometimes to push. I had one girl that I pushed a little bit, uh, and then she ended up buying. And then after she bought, she cried and she was like Sam, it's been years that I wanted to do something about it. Thank you for pushing me.

Yeah.

So I know sometimes it's good, but I know when people play the game with me, I'm like, no, I know, I know.

Well, I mean, listen, if you want it, you get it. If you don't want it, you don't get it, you know?

That's what I tell them. And that's why they don't buy.

Yeah. I mean, but then again, there's so many influencing factors before the call, you know? Like organic trust, good VSL, good sales script, good pitch deck.

I don't watch VSLs as well.

You don't watch VSLs?

Yeah, so I don't expect anyone to watch a VSL. I just, I think it's like, hey, I need to charm on the first call. That's my belief, right? And that's sometimes I hop on calls with salespeople and I'm like, you didn't charm me in any way, you just spoke about my problems, you offered nothing, why would I buy? And I believe Well, let me show— like, sometimes I'm like, oh, you know nothing about me, let me show you an overview what I can do for you, and then we can go to the discovery. So I'm much more flexible, and I'm really trying to understand the psychology of high-ticket sales, and the psych— like, really understand it.

Well, really, this here is what you need to understand. So for, for one of these businesses to work, for you to sell, let's just say, let's say the $30K offer, right? You do need to have skill on the phone, and you need to have a good script and a good pitch and a good pitch deck and closing skill. You do need— that's one element, right?

Yeah.

You need quality leads, obviously, people that can afford $30K, right? So that's another element. Another element is pre-call trust, right? And that is built through, uh, I mean, loads of ways— a long-form YouTube, podcasts, good organic, good-looking Instagram, articles about you, testimonials, case studies, that kind of thing, right? And for me, if you want to close high-paying clients, you need really one of two things. So you need a killer offer, trust, and really unit Good unit economics as well. And if we can do—

what is unit economics?

I'll give you an example. So right now, our paid ads, the close rate is about 8%, which is tiny, way below industry average. But we are about 5x cash. If you spend, say, 10, we'll make 50 back. Even with an 8% close rate. Now, how does that make sense, right? Well, the reason that happens is because the prices are so high.

Because the price is high.

Yeah, yeah. So the price fills in the gap of the shit close rate.

And what is high?

Industry average is about 20% close rate.

No, no, what is, uh, ticket— high tickets, like how high is the ticket for you?

Yes, so we have 3 programs.

Yeah.

Group is $5K a month. Yeah. One-to-one is $10K a month. Done for you is $15K a month. Okay. And if you buy 2 months on day 1, we give you 1 for free. Oh yeah. And if you buy 3 on day 1, we give you 2 for free. And on and on and on. So the more you buy on day 1, the more you get for free. Most people buy the 3 for 2. And most people buy done for you.

3 for 2? Oh, done for you. Oh really, 15K?

15K.

So they pay 3 months.

Yep. So that would be— so they pay for 2, which is 30 grand, and they get one for free because they buy 2 up front on day 1, right? Right.

Yeah.

So our average day 1 cash— I don't have the exact number, but it's about, it's about 24K is the average day 1 cash sale. And it costs us about $4,000 to acquire a customer.

And how much do they make usually on average?

Customers?

Yes.

It completely varies. I mean, our most successful client of all time has made— he teaches yoga— he's made almost $5 million in 2 years. Right. But obviously that's a, that's an outlier.

I don't know the average customer result, but Is there like a minimum that you're targeting, like at least $10K a month or something?

No, some— a lot of them are beginners and they would pay you $20K. But don't forget, they're professionals though.

Professionals?

Yeah, so like for example, uh, accountants, contractors, okay, famous tennis players. Yeah, you know, so they have money, they're just new to info. So they're already like a professional in, or, you know, something like that. Filmer, writer, actor, whatever. Yeah. So they've got the money, but technically they're beginners. And the only reason we make money is because we've got very good unit economics, you know. And if you're going to sell something for 30, if the offer is good enough and the funnel is good enough and you're good enough at closing, you'll probably have the same advantage as us.

Advantage is what?

The same advantage that we do.

Yeah.

Because if you ran ads, I mean, I don't run ads yet. Well, not yet. Yeah, not yet. But just to kind of paint the picture, it costs us about $300 to buy a sales call. Yeah, right. So if we take 10 calls, that's $3,000. We take 20, it's $6,000. If we close 1 in 20, it costs us $6,000 to make $24,000.

So how much does it cost you?

So 300 per call. Yeah. Times 20. Yeah. Is 6,000. So it costs you 6,000 to make a sale. Wow. Roughly, roughly, depending on the month. Right.

So scary.

You've got to have balls and you've got to have money.

Yeah.

I think the average is about 4.5. I think it costs about 4.5 to make a sale. So, but that's just the game, you know, it costs us 4.5 to make 20, 25.

Okay.

And that's what unit economics means.

Yeah.

You know, and if you're selling, say, a $30K offer, well, you're going to have good unit economics, right? So now we just need these: a killer offer and trust. So just describe that offer to me as if we just met for the first time right now.

Yeah, so you pay me $30K, I would fly to you and I would help you build a content setup, which means I'll, will buy you a camera, which you need to pay for, um, we'll set up like a whole studio, I'll set up the lighting, all of those things, then I'll record you and I'll basically help you also build like a brand positioning. So, I'll figure out exactly what can go viral in your niche, right? So, I'll go do some research with you and then I'll record you, I'll make a lot of content of you, then I'll hire video editors and I'll help you build the funnel I'll teach you sales.

Yeah.

Um, I'll help you, or I'll help you hire DM setters and closers, which is something we'll need to do together. I won't do it for you completely, but I'll make sure that you make more money than you pay me. That, that, like, the end goal is— yeah, to, like, you take the risk on, but I— the goal is to help you make money.

That is a killer offer.

Thank you.

That is a killer offer.

Well, that's what I've been doing all this time for my clients.

Tick. Dude, do you know who, um, who Viral Coach is? Yeah. Yeah, so I think their offer's $30K, I think, as well. I'm pretty sure it's $30K. I think it's $30K for the normal one and $125K for the fly-to-you one. $135K. 125.

Uh-huh. And then the main guy flies to you?

Yeah.

Well, yeah, yeah, 125 sounds good. I'll take that.

Yeah, yeah. And dude, then dude, if you charged 125, you could run ads all day long. You could pay 20 grand for a customer and still make money. Pay 25 and you'd have 100 left.

Yeah, I don't mind it, you know.

So you could do that. You absolutely could do that, man. If you build good ads and a good funnel and you're good on the phone, job done, right? So unit economics, tick. Killer offer, tick. The last thing is trust. Now, to build trust, you've already got a really good Instagram, right? When I looked at your Instagram, um, it looks authoritative, you know, good bio, good followers, good content. Good engagement.

The engagement is not always so good.

Say that again.

The engagement is not always so good. I, I hear people on sales calls, they're like, hey Sam, like some posts you get 30 likes, I don't think you're the best in the game.

What do you say when they say that?

Um, then I tell them about my positioning, that I used to work with photographers and I got a lot of leads, a lot of engagement then, but now I'm pivoting and that I measure more leads rather than engagement. Sometimes I think my priority should go back to my Instagram because I've really, like, my Instagram is on low mode, well, medium mode. Like, I don't, you know, it's quite systematized. I don't spend too much time and effort doing Instagram. Which shows— hmm.

Cool.

So I guess, do we even need a sales team, or can I just forget about it?

You do need a sales team, that's a fact. Oh, 100%, because especially at this price point, the human needs to speak to you.

No, yeah, to me, but a sales team, like to hire closers and the MSLs?

Oh, uh, no, you can close it yourself.

Okay.

Yeah. And I would recommend that.

Okay.

To be honest, because at low scale with a price like this, you just need 3 customers a month and you're at $90K.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which, which is awesome. And I mean, if this works, I might raise the price as well to— thank you. I might raise the price also to $50K or $100K if I, if I, if I saw how. Yeah, but I'm doing something very unique also. No one else is doing with building this content setup. So the studio, and then we also have automations that basically when you click start record, it will record you, it optimizes the video, it color grades you, and it adds filters. And then when it uploads everything to the Google Drive, then even it would scan, like that's something new that we're building now, but it would scan the whole video So an hour-long video, it will scan everything and then it would create a document next to it explaining the video editor exactly what needs to be done. So it can be turned into 4 long-form videos, 20 short-form videos. This is the title, this is this. So that's something I've never seen anyone do before, and that's what you are developing now.

Yeah, really good, man. Really, really good. Well, fundamentally, right, this is what you need to do. Decide on your dream customer, who they are, where they are, what are their pains, what are their problems. Yeah. Then you need to make pain and problem-based content for that people because that's what's going to attract them.

Pain and problem-based content.

Yeah. Okay. So for example, let's say you wanted to get me as a customer, and you know, one of my problems right now is scaling to a million a month. And hiring and stuff. If you made content about how to scale to a million a month and hire, that would get my attention and I would come into your world. That's what we want to happen. We want to make content that is going to appeal to these people, and they're going to see it and come into our world.

But are you sure it's about pain and not desire? Because you just spoke about desire.

Yeah.

And well, from my understanding, wealthy people buy based on desire. Rather than pain?

Desire rather than pain? You could say both. Okay. Because the reason I bought this villa was because I desired to live in Bali, but I was in pain living in Dubai. Yeah. Because I was like trapped and it was stressful and it, you know, crazy energy and shit.

Makes me so happy to be here, you know. Yeah.

So it was both pain and desire. Pain of escape, the desire of a new chapter. Yeah. So I think it's pain, problem, and desire.

Okay. Okay.

Really? All three. So for example, you could have made a video like how to buy a villa in Bali and start your new life. You know, that would have got me. Yeah.

Yeah.

From there, you're going to send them into a VSL funnel. Obviously you're going to be like, listen, if you want my help with this stuff, book a call and sell them the $30K to $50K offer. Yeah.

And a VSL, can that be a website also, or does it— like, I don't watch VSLs. I am a short-form guy, so I just watch like a 1-minute video and then I would book a call directly.

Hmm. Well, if the website is built for conversion, then yes, it is. There you go.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah. As long as it's like optimized to get them on a call and yeah, you know, then, then yeah, yeah, it can be a website. Yeah. It's nice to have a VSL, like, because it's just for me, it's nice to watch a VSL because then I get to know the person a bit.

You watch VSLs when you buy?

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah. So I just like to know what's it about and You know, I love watching YouTube. You know, I watch a lot of YouTube and a VSL is like a kind of like a sales YouTube video, isn't it really?

Do you consume short form as well?

No, never.

Never?

Never.

Would you say that most high-level people don't consume short form?

Oh, yeah.

They do?

No.

They don't?

No. No, because smart people know that it's useless.

You sure?

Well, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong, to be honest. But because generally, you know, smart people understand like dopamine and wasting time and stuff, and short form is like high dopamine waste of time.

Well, I get a lot of good ideas from short form as well. It's just more condensed.

Yeah. I mean, everybody's different. I'd love to survey everybody and see who watches it. I'm sure some people do by accident.

But the question behind it is like, should I go to YouTube Or should I stick on Instagram?

Well, you should do both.

Yeah, I do both. Yeah, but my main focus really is on YouTube.

Oh, definitely, definitely, because YouTube builds so much trust. You know, when you can sit with someone— like, for example, when you were watching one of these videos, right, um, it built so much trust that you reached out and you were like, hey, can I do one?

I actually didn't watch the video.

Well, did you not watch it?

I just saw your stories. I like that you're living in Bali. I saw that beautiful villa. So if you do a podcast, I saw the first 5 minutes of the video and then I messaged you, I think.

So it kind of still did its job though, in a way, you know?

Yeah. It's not about the long form. It's more about this whole setup. It's the whole— yeah, yeah, 5 minutes, I'd say. Yeah.

Yeah.

So it is long form.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the ideal thing is both, you know, I see long form as for conversion. And short form as for attention, you know.

Yeah.

So in this scenario, like Instagram got your attention and sent you over to the long form where you saw the villa and stuff. Yeah. You know, so yeah, that kind of thing. And then see, the good thing about high prices is how impactful they are. You know, one sale makes such a difference. Right, you know.

Yeah, I've never sold anything for $30K, by the way.

Well, you will, you will if you, if you get enough, enough calls, you know.

I got a lot of calls. I— so I'm a short-form creator. The thing with it is I would have one that blows up, gets incredible client. So I had this one post that got 250 views, and everyone that commented on that had a million followers. Like, like it was the best people ever. And I'm now trying to run a certain ad, um, but I got, I got amazing people. Everyone has like a lot of money, and, uh, still the conversion rate was low. But yeah, because there was no trust, I guess.

Well, there you go.

There you go.

Yeah, that's the problem. See, that's the, that's the good thing about short form. It gets you a lot of attention, but you need to nurture it. You know, and if you only have Instagram, it takes weeks and months to build up enough trust where they can buy. Whereas if you have YouTube and podcasts, they can spend an hour with you so fast, you know.

Yeah, I was thinking always the sales calls builds the trust, but is that—

he does, you're right. Yeah, he does, but a lot of trust has to be built in advance. You know, you can't build enough trust on a call to get someone to buy cold. You know, well, you can, but it's going to be a very, very, very, very low close rate.

So, you know, that might be the problem because that's what I've been trying to do.

Yeah, I think it is. I think it is.

I just hate when people push a video on me which I know is a sales video.

Yeah.

So I'm like, this is just manipulation video. I don't have time. I don't want to waste my time on it. If I would go and watch some more videos, I would go into his Instagram and look for a few more videos there. That's what I usually do. I don't really watch a VSL.

Interesting.

I even had a guy, a coach that runs a lot of ads lately, similar to yours, actually. And he pushed me, he pushed on me like a 1-hour VSL. 1-hour VSL? Yeah, and I was like, I'm not watching that. He was like, fine. And that's how we never ended up on a sales call.

I don't think you would have bought on that call anyway.

Um, well, I have this belief that I need someone to charm me, to be like, hey, I like— this is going to be great for you, this is like— this is why it's— I kind of see it like dating almost. And what I see a lot of coaches, they're like, what's your problem? How painful is it? And it feels really, I don't know, dirty.

When was the last time you bought some education?

It might be half a year ago with Cole Gordon.

Cole Gordon?

Yeah, well, yeah, or yeah, yeah.

When was that? Was that like last Like June or something? Um, yeah, yeah, yeah. And did you buy on the first call? I'm guessing you did.

No, second call.

Second call?

Yeah, well, he didn't have enough— he could have probably closed me on his first call maybe, but he didn't have enough time yet on the call.

Fair enough, fair enough. How did you know Cole first? Like, where'd you find him?

I got recommended to him I booked a sales call with one of my competitors almost. It was a guy that would hire a whole clipping thing and would clip a lot. And I booked a call with them and then he was like, well, it's not like what you're describing as your problems. I think Cole Gordon might help you better. And then I was like, okay, well, let me just book a call with him because it was a new introduction for me to the rich coaches, to the coaches who make a lot of money.

Yeah.

And then I also asked my friend who makes a million a month, and I was like, hey, I'm thinking about buying from Cole. And he was like, yeah, Cole is a GOAT. He's awesome.

What? Who's the guy with a million a month?

That's a friend, a client that lives here in Bali.

What was his name?

Mitchell.

Mitchell. Mitchell. God knows. Okay, cool.

Yeah, so Dutch guy.

Yeah, so there was a lot of trust already then.

Um, yeah, and there was also desire to pay someone like 15K. Yeah, because I never paid, I never paid someone 15K, and I never understood how I can sell something for 15K.

Yes.

And so I was like, and I had this, this is from a reel that I watched, if you want to sell something for a high ticket, you need to buy something for a high ticket.

Agreed. Agreed.

Yeah.

Yeah. What one of my mentors, Sam Ovens, once said, you know, he was talking about his mastermind, which used to be 36K. And he said, you know, you can't pay 36, you can't sell 36 if you've never paid 36.

Exactly.

Because you don't, it's just not kind of in you. So that, well, that's really good. You bought the 15 to learn how to sell 15. Dude, that's great. I love that. I love that. So, so let's come back to— so I know where you're going, I know what you want to do. You've got a killer offer, you've got— yeah, so dude, I think if you added in long-form YouTube, that's definitely number one. Number two, I would say Long-form YouTube is going to get you a lot, lot, lot more trust. Maybe a bit— do you, do you ever go on podcasts and stuff?

Yeah, I usually host them myself.

I would—

so I'd be the interviewer.

And I'm just trying to think about your existing Instagram because I think we would have to like overhaul it. Do you think? Like, um, kind of stop with the photography stuff and start with the new avatar?

Yeah, but then I would get really low engagement.

You'd have to start again. Yeah.

Ah, not start again. So I, I post it, it— I got one hit from it. So I, when I share this piece on how I do the setup, or how the hook is, how I grow my Instagram without wasting time, or this is how I spend no time while my Instagram grows—

I saw it.

Yeah. And that got the best engagement, or the best— it got a lot of new people, let's say, into my ecosystem. And it got, you know, like, people you wouldn't believe suddenly followed you. Like, I had a conversation with a guy who predicted Bitcoin at $1. Things like that.

Yeah, even my operations director saw that video. Okay, actually, yeah, you need to do long-form YouTube. Number 1, I would go and get on some podcasts, even if you have to pay. Okay, go and do 3, 4, 5, 6 podcasts. Okay, with very different people to grow your brand.

And you don't think I need to kind of build my story better before doing that?

Number 3, pivot the brand and the content, you know, and you've got to start fully pivoting the brand to attract these people, right? So for example, I used to own the trading education company and I wanted to do consulting, and I knew that yes, it was a successful company, we'd made a lot of money and scaled very far, but I didn't think it was enough, you know. So I was like, right, I'm going to sell it and get that badge of honor. I'm going to go on loads of podcasts. I'm going to start a long-form YouTube channel. I'm going to build this brand around the people that I want to work with. And then it got me the people I wanted to work with. You've got to do that next. So pivot the brand and the content. And number 4, you're gonna hate this. Sales skills and selling and just becoming great on the phone, becoming a fucking G, you know. Yeah.

And would you say that's more really under— because what I'm trying to do is understanding like the whole psychology of it so I can teach it as well, or would you say it's more like, oh, just follow a script? Because I, I'm not good at reading ADHD problems. Stuff like that?

Yeah, well, sales skills, well, it's objection handling, being personable, I mean, good with people, having a good pitch and a good pitch deck, holding them accountable, and also, what's the word, like, having full belief and conviction in what you're selling, what you're doing as well. And if you can do those things, you're going to close very well. But I would say you do need a script. You do. Because a sales call is a psychological process.

Yeah.

You know, it is similar to dating in a way when it's done right.

Yeah.

You're kind of making them comfortable with you, getting to know them, but you're being firm and professional and conducting a professional call as well.

Yeah.

Gotta do both. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Sales skills, objections, selling high ticket, shifting niches, hiring.

Question.

Yeah.

Are we scraping the $5K and the $15K offer?

I would keep the $15K. Yeah. Scratch the 5, and I would use the 15 as a downsell. So I would lead with the 30.

I like that.

And if you can't close the 30 for whatever reason, then reveal the 15 if it's a good fit for them and say, look, if the 30 is out of reach or whatever, there is another option. Would you mind if I share it with you? They're going to say yes. You say, okay, cool. The other option is 15. You don't get this, you don't get this, blah blah. 'But it's still going to really help you to get the result and the outcome that you're looking for here.' And use it as a, as a downsell. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And dude, you've got to get better at tracking. You've got to track shit, you know. You've got to know your numbers. Like, what's your close rate? Close rate. How many calls a month? This number, you know.

But the reason I don't do that is because there's so much Different variety, like different things.

Like what?

Like, did he came from organic or ads? Which video did he watch? What kind of person is he? Is he this? Is he this? Like, I don't have, you know, a specific avatar. It's any expat that comes to me. Expert.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, well, that's what, you know what Hiros is, the tracking software, right? Yeah, yeah, get, get HireUs because then you can see where they came from, like which video, what they clicked, what they watched. So that, that will help you a lot. That will do a lot of the work for you because it tracks Instagram.

Yeah, it tracks which video they watched on Instagram, uh, on—

well, if you embed a link in an Instagram video, yes, but you can't click a link in an Instagram video, can you? No, no. So they'd have to copy paste it, but you could have a tag in the link in bio. So at least we know they came from Instagram.

Yeah. Or— oh my God, it sounds like a nightmare.

No, it's not. It's not too hard. It's not too hard.

I'll probably need to change all my CTAs.

Maybe. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. But again, you're going to be— you're going to be pivoting the brand of the content, so you're going to be kind of starting again anyway. Really, as annoying as it is, it's got to be done. And I would scrap the free course as well. Like, if you're going to do this new thing—

well, do you want to have this conversation? Because it's a little bit of a conversation.

Yeah.

I saw this one reel lately which made me change. Like, I used to sell this course and now I give it for free, but it's basically sell, or not sell, but like build a business that serves God. And it's all about mission and stuff like that. And I was like, Alex Hormozi does it, which is one of my biggest inspirations. He, you know, he gives everything for free and he sells only to the rich people. And then he gets, because of that, you get a lot of results. And that's something like I was about to talk with you also about later, but it's when you have this mission, you have people chasing you, you get engagement, you get followers, you get all of those things. And then you sell only to the rich people. So that's kind of what I'm doing anyway. So this aligns a lot what you're saying here with a sell $30K, and then I would raise my prices as well.

Same thing as what we do as well. Like, we, we don't get many customers. We only get about 15, 20, 25 customers a month, but they pay very high prices. Yeah. So it's low volume, high price. Yeah. And that's the way that I like to go, and it's the way that sounds like you want to go as well. Yeah, I love that way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's what you're gonna do. Yeah. So I— yeah, that's okay. That is okay. Yeah, you could maybe give it away with a VSL. DM setter is a separate thing. You just really need to start again. Do the long-form YouTube, go and build the brand, pivot the content, get good at sales and the whole sales call process, and you're going to be in a much better place. And you just need to build in the business skills. That's one big thing that you're missing— hiring, tracking, like the real business foundation.

Hiring like a DM setter?

Hiring in general, building a good culture, you know, hiring good people, learning to train them and manage them and ramp them. It's hard. It's annoying.

Yeah, it's annoying, but, but it kind of goes against what you're saying, do it yourself. I thought to sell $30K and then I don't need to, and I don't need any employees. Maybe a DM setter would help.

Well, I'll tell you what's probably going to happen, man. So this you can do yourself, and if you do it well, you should be doing 1 or 2 or 3 sales a month. Eventually you're probably going to want to scale. You know, when you get to $100K a month, then you're going to want $200K.

Yeah.

And then you're going to want $500K. It's just natural.

Yeah.

And so then you are going to have to hire later on. So you can get to good numbers on your own, and you will if you do this right. Uh, but yeah, but then the foundation is like business skills, tracking, knowing your numbers. You know, that's like the glue that holds everything together.

Yeah.

You know. Yeah.

Yeah, I like 30K. That aligns a lot.

Nice.

And then raising that. Pivoting the content. I'm already doing that. Sometimes I'm going back and forward, right? Pay for podcasts. Never thought about doing that, but I'm open to it. Uh, long-form YouTube video, already doing that. It's, it's not picking up yet, but it's, yeah, underway.

Huh, you're doing it?

You do it again?

You're making the YouTube videos?

Yes, I am.

Yeah, good.

Yeah, so 1 and 3 already doing. Uh, sales skills, um, yeah, and, and you're right, like, I have already this ego of like, I paid so much already for to learn that, but I still don't know it. I still don't understand it.

Yeah, 100%. And just one other thing that I'd add. People don't want to call. I agree, people don't want to call, but they need a call. They need a call. I don't know whether you saw this, probably not, but recently we removed the VSL funnel. We removed the sales call and we just had an application on a page. And yes, we closed people from it, right? It was a 27-question application. It would go into Slack, I would see it, it would give me a Word doc with all the answers. Yeah, I would make them a Loom, send them the Loom in WhatsApp and close them in WhatsApp. And it worked. We did about $340,000, $350,000, $360,000 from it in a month. But we would have made a lot more with calls. A lot more. So, so I agree with that. People don't want a call, but they do need a call.

Well, And then I, I think people don't want to hop on a call with a salesperson.

Yeah, agreed. But the founder just can't take calls, you know. When you're doing volume, the founder just cannot take calls, right?

You know, right?

That's just the unfortunate truth of when you scale.

Some people would say get the founder on a call to do the calls but charge them for it.

Doesn't work. We've tried it. Because people don't want to pay for that first call. Yeah, because they don't. It's a fucking sales call.

It's friction.

Yeah. Yeah. So I wish, I wish we could, but we can't. Okay. Yeah. Does that help?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The $30K helps a lot.

Easy.

What would you, what would you say about ads? Like, You didn't write anything about ads, but that's what my main priority is lately.

I would run ads. Yeah, I would. Like, for us, God, man, like 80% of our money comes from ads.

Yeah, you could say you don't have a business until you run ads.

I agree.

You cannot track anything.

Agreed. And the good thing about this is you will almost certainly be profitable with a $30K price tag, man. It would be hard for you to not be profitable. So, I'll put it on the list.

Well, what if I, you know, what would get in the way is getting on a bunch of sales calls, not getting them to sell, and then losing belief.

Yeah.

But what you're saying as well is I should send them before the sales call, I should send them a few videos, like I could do it manually, like, hey, I just looked at your profile, I think this video will help.

What you mean when they book a call?

Yeah. So right now we're doing like I'm just running ads yesterday and what we're doing is getting them to DM me.

So, oh, the DM ads.

Yeah, DM ads. And then they ask, hey, can I book a sales call or can I know more information about it? And then I would send that to them and then I could probably send them also like, hey, I think you would find this 'Is this video helpful?' Or send, or just send them my YouTube and then be like, 'Hey, you might help, this might help.' Yeah, yeah.

So think of it like this, right? So this, let's say they DM here and they buy here, and this is like the coldness scale. Yeah, right here they're a zero, like they don't know who the fuck you are, what you do, any shit like that. I need to stop swearing so much, man. And so basically They're cold and then they chat to you a bit in the DMs, you know, a few questions and stuff like that. And then that probably makes them like a, say, a 3. And then let's say they book a call. So they book. Now it's going to be very hard to close 3s on the coldness scale. You can, you can close some, but not many. So between that and that, you need to send them a video, which is a VSL. To warm them up, send them some YouTube long form and some pods, podcasts and some like testimonials. And that's what makes them attend. Then they buy. And you've got to do that before the call. So they book there, they get all of that, then they have the call and they buy. That is how you're going to make more money. Yeah. And that's the importance of brand that builds the trust.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So VSL, and then what was there?

So VSL, YouTube, podcasts, testimonials, right? Yeah. So what we do when someone books a call We've got retargeting running. So for anyone that sees the thank you for booking page, all those people, we show retargeting ads, YouTube videos, podcasts, testimonials. So between the call, they've seen it on Facebook, they've seen it on YouTube, they've seen it on Instagram, they've seen it here, seen it there, and we're warming them up, trying to get them to a 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 before the call.

Fascinating.

Do you think you can do that? I can.

I'm working on my sales skills for sure. How would you go along that? Just learning by myself.

If I wanted to learn sales, I would read— Do you like to read books? No.

Audiobooks is something I can work with.

Yep. I'm not sure whether there is an audiobook, but read a book called Gap Selling. Right. And also, I would— yeah, Gap Selling is a really good book, okay, for sales. And I would probably buy a sales training program because you need to role-play, right? Objection handle role-play, questions role-play. You could do this with a friend, to be honest.

Could I just not do it on Salesforce? And live sales calls, of course, because I can get a lot of sales calls if I want sometimes. That will not be the, like, qualified people because I have a lot of unqualified people.

But yeah, I always like learn, then do, then learn, then do, then learn, then do. And if you keep doing that, you know, like, we are training a new rep right now, and every single day my sales team manager is listening to all their calls, reviewing them, getting on and doing some role play with them. And making them better fast. And that's what you've got to do. Yeah. And if you do all of that, you can get to $100K per month. That's for damn sure.

Yeah. So you just fly to people. That's basically it.

Yeah. Yeah. And then as it starts working, I'd raise the price. Yeah. Then go 40, get it, keep making sales. Cool. Then go 50.

40, 40.

Yeah.

50. Yeah.

And then 60, 80.

You would just raise it by 10, not by a percentage?

I'd raise it by 10. Yeah. Because if someone's going to pay 50, they'll pay 60. Yeah.

So why not just go from 30 to 50?

Yeah, you can.

Okay.

Yeah, 100%.

And then it's 275.

Yeah. Just depends on, on things like what's the close rate, what is it costing us to make a sale? You know, again, that's where tracking comes in because it's the data that allows you to make good decisions. Without the data, you're just guessing. Uh-huh.

Okay. Yeah. You know, I could probably— because you're saying track your stuff, I could probably build an automation that tracks all of that.

Yeah.

And then I can even sell it.

Yeah, you could. Yeah. And you could even do what we do where inside our training program we have a software that people use for like the funnel, the calendar, the survey, the course, and shit like that. £297 a month and most customers buy that, right?

Sorry, I lost you. Can you say that again?

Yeah, sure. So inside our training program, people need software to host their course and build their funnel and stuff. We sell that to them. We have a software ourselves.

Okay.

And most customers buy that. Okay. And it's £297 a month, $350. We're also just about to introduce a sales tracking software that reviews your calls for you, tells you what you're doing right and wrong, stops you if you're doing something wrong, highlights the objections, that kind of thing. And that'll be another software.

Live on the call?

Live on the call.

Why do you sell in pounds? You're the only one I saw who ever sells in pounds.

Yeah.

Why is that?

Um, sounds cheaper.

But do you sell to Americans usually, or like, how much percent of your clients are Americans?

60%. Okay, and, and then the other majority would be UK, rest of world, England, Dubai, Switzerland, Bali, Canada, Australia.

My— yeah, okay, thanks, that's helpful.

Yeah, no worries.

And, and what helped a lot as well, saying that this other guy sells 130K for a flight to you.

125.

125. Well, that, that's just like— because I've never seen anyone do that, I was just coming up with it myself.

Yeah, I think they're only selling like 2 a month, 3 a month of that. Yeah. So, not big volume, but—

Yeah. How much is he making, you know?

I believe the last I know was $3.2K per month. Yeah. So, not bad.

It's so simple. Yeah. I mean, yeah.

It really is, man. It really is. This is all you gotta do. Just forget all of this. Just do that. There.

It's a Russian guy, right? Huh? He's a Russian guy, right?

Is he? I think so. I don't know. I thought he was American.

With a beard?

No.

No?

No. I don't think so. I might be wrong. I can't picture him in my head right now.

Never mind.

What, what was the most helpful thing that we covered today?

Um, the $30K, the, the stop focusing on the $15K, focus on the $30K, because, you know, I've been even going back a little bit to selling $5K or to pitching $5K, which is just because I'm focusing on the wrong people. Um, and then some of the limiting beliefs. Um, let's see. Get tracking. I can get it automated, so that's going to be a new focus. New IG for newsletter. What's written? What's the second to-do list?

Uh, new Instagram for the new avatar.

Ah yeah, that's pivoting. I'm already doing that. Yeah, but it's a struggle. Yeah, business skills, uh, yeah, working on that for sure. Sales training, yeah, I should focus on that. Yeah, so, so, so sometimes I have this, this, this belief that, oh no, I just need to find one good closer and he can change everything for me, but it needs to be an exceptional closer. And it would probably not work for me.

That's true, that's true. If you found an A-player, it would change your business, but they wouldn't work for you. Not yet anyway. That's why it's— you've got to do it yourself first.

Yeah, yeah.

And you've got to get the volume as well, you know, because what's one of the first things closers say? How many calls can you give me per day? You know, right? Um, yeah.

Business with sales training, limiting beliefs, people don't want to buy on calls, they need it. Well, you know, when it makes sense, like no one would want to pay $30K without meeting the person first. So, now everything makes much more sense. Yeah. Like when we structure it like this. So, this helps a lot.

Good.

Email strategies. Email strategies, you want me to do email?

Yeah, I mean, I was gonna say, you know, like you can email them to book a call. You can email them like about webinars, challenges, low-ticket stuff that then gets them on a sales call on the back end. Sounds all to me like shiny objects, or, uh, it's, it's not critical, but it does help. Yeah, you know, we, we do get 1 or 2 sales a month from email, you know. So what we do is on a Monday we email out the YouTube video with a bit of copy about it.

All right.

Wednesday we send out a testimonial, case study story about a customer with a video testimonial. Friday we send out like a story, like a tip or a trick or a strategy or something like that. Yeah. Um, and it does get customers. And, and the PS is always book a call. The bottom of every email, PS, book a call.

And it doesn't like really lower your metrics? No, no, because Google or Gmail hates when you have CTAs in the emails.

We gotta sell somehow, right?

Because some people would say it's better to get them to reply to you if you want a sales call. Yeah, never mind, that's small things. And then upsell successful clients.

That doesn't apply anymore.

Well, you know, I have this— my girlfriend, before this call, before this meeting, she was like, hey Sam, he will probably say something about, um, your lifetime— how do you say—

lifetime, lifetime value.

Yeah, lifetime value per client. And I'd say, yeah, some people go for 3 months, some people go for 2 months, and some people go for 1 month. It's— what do you think about that? Do you think I should resell to existing clients?

Well, think about this. Why is LTV so important? I feel like a teacher in a classroom. Well, yeah, but tell me, why is LTV so important? Get out, you're fired.

You are the guy for that because Because you sold a company, right? So it's, it's really good to raise the value of your company.

So the reason that—

good referrals as well, I'd say. Good for referrals as well, I guess.

Yep, yep. The main reason LTV is so important is because it covers more of your costs. Yeah, right. So if you're selling something for, let's say, $5K or you're selling something for $35K, well, if you're running ads, you know, let's say it costs you $2,000 to get a customer. Well, you need to swallow that cost and then you might have fulfillment costs like team costs, tax, softwares, all this shit. So the more margin, the higher the LTV, the more cash you have to play with.

Yeah, you know, um, when would you go and hire a sitter?

As soon as I had enough traffic in the inbox and I couldn't do it myself.

Okay. And, um, who would you not let on a call?

I, I would filter pretty heavily for this. I would have a very strong qualification that's like, you know, number one, to make sure they know it's a sales call to buy something so they're not wasting time. Number two, I would hint at the price. I would say like, you know, working with us is not free and requires a minimum 5-figure investment. You know, are you able to invest that in yourself and your business? Yes or no? Mhm. And things like, um, do they have the problem? What do they need help with? What are they doing now? How big is their audience? Just stuff like that.

Well, yeah, usually I, I make it as easy as possible to book a call, and then I would go and look at their Instagram, and then I would be like, I would message them and see like, like, hey, just working with me is minimum this, do you still want to do the call? Or I would just cancel it myself.

I think what you're going to find, I mean, there's two ways. Low friction, more calls. High friction, less calls. One always works better. For an offer like this, it's probably going to be the latter, I would imagine. Where you hint that it's very expensive on the survey.

Oh yeah.

And on the website and in the funnel. 'Cause otherwise you're going to get loads of people that just can't afford it. You know, you've got to position this as a premium service, 'cause it is a premium service, you know?

Yeah, it is.

Yeah. Yeah.

So I will basically help you grow your, get more leads for your existing business, or if you want to start in the educational business. I'll help you get more leads.

That's the offer.

I mean, that's the, that's the, that, that's who I'm talking to. Like, this is just like what I'm doing. I kind of sometimes I need to understand it myself.

I, I think what you're doing here is I will help you build your entire content ecosystem so that you can put out high-quality content that gets you leads and calls and high-paying buyers. Yeah, that would be my promise. That's what it is.

And, and would you promise also money-back guarantee or anything like that? What are you doing right now?

I wouldn't, no, because people that usually want a guarantee want to use the guarantee. What people that ask for a refund guarantee? Yeah, they're coming into business with a refund in mind.

I don't think people— people never ask me that.

That's a good sign.

Um, but, but I'm like, I need to think about it. And then I'm like, you know, like, there's no really risk for you. Like, if you, if you, if you're not happy, I'll just refund you.

Yeah.

Which I think is fair.

It's very fair. Very fair.

Yeah.

Yeah. I just worry about if you're like flying to them and setting everything up, building everything out. If you have an any reason refund policy, some people will use it.

No, yeah, no, I'll need to make sure it makes sense.

Yeah, yeah.

Yep.

Cool. Do you feel a little bit clearer now?

Yeah, I'll probably put, yeah. I'll probably put this whole meeting in AI and be like, tell me what to do. Yeah, but basically what I'm gonna do is ads, go hard on ads, work on my skills meanwhile, read this book that you recommended. Yeah, do the whole brand, new content, Yeah, and the big thing we're doing right now is pivoting from a coach, which I used to be for the past years. For the past 5 years, I used to be a coach to a service provider.

Yes.

Which is the biggest thing, right?

Yes.

Which you could say even is a downgrade.

I wouldn't say it's a downgrade, I would say it's an upgrade. I think, because now you're building a premium service. This is not coaching bullshit. Anymore. This is like a quality offer now, like a top-of-the-market offer, in my opinion.

Interesting. Um, okay. And I need to be really good at sales then to sell something for $30K?

Yes. Yeah.

Yeah, and, and I don't need to talk to my existing clients or my past clients, right? You don't—

I mean, you could email your past clients and frame it as a new offer, be like, hey guys, listen, I just want to tell you about something brand new I've never done before. This is not for everybody, it's very expensive, but this is where I fly to you and I do this and I do this and I do this and blah blah blah blah. If you're interested, book a call, and that could get you your first 5, 10, 15, 20 calls.

I have a question.

Yeah.

So AI was like amazing, this is the best idea ever. Yeah. But I'm curious, your idea, um, a sales call. I was framing it as, uh, right now it's framed as let me show you what people make $1 million a month do for their content. And then, um, then I was like, hey, I got this guy one client from a 10-minute call, like from 10 minutes on the call, right? And I was thinking, oh, maybe I should do this as the first call, like, and I know a videographer or like a guy that makes $300K a month. He basically has a videography agency or short form, and he basically does the first reel for free. And so I was thinking, okay, well, I can, like, I can to get more people on a call, I could offer them like, we will make a free post on the call itself, which I could do. It will take probably 20 minutes. Do you think that's a people-pleasing thing, or is that legit?

You don't need to do it. Okay, it's a good— it's a nice idea, you know, but you just don't need to do it.

Yeah, but it builds trust.

It does build trust. Yeah. I mean, if let's say, let's say worst case, you do all of this and you are really struggling to close the calls for whatever reason, you could then test that to see, is that a solution? But I wouldn't lead with it. I wouldn't, I wouldn't do that first.

No. Okay. Okay, amazing. Thank you.

All good.

Super valuable.

Yeah, awesome. Good stuff, Mama. Good to have you here. Thank you.

Appreciate you a lot.

Good fun. Good fun.

Yes.

Amazing. That was a deep dive. Yeah, that was a deep dive, man. I was feeling focused in that session. Oh, I need some dinner. I've worked too hard today. Far too hard.