A New, Drug-Free Biohack To Finely Tune Your Emotions, Sleep, Relaxation, Energy, Focus, Calm & More: The Hapbee With Scott Donnell.

On this episode of the Ben Greenfield.

Fitness Podcast, I basically pitched the vision of let's Go for Broke. It's like Steve Jobs, thousand songs in your pocket with the ipod. Let's create a thousand signals and sensations and feelings around your neck in games on a flight. Using the relaxed signal or the sleepy signal would be an incredible way to enhance performance for them. Without anything in their body. They really use us instead of turning to us a substance that maybe they were addicted to or something that they know that they have a habit of, they want to cut back, help performance.

Nutrition, longevity, ancestral living, biohacking, and much more. My name is Ben Greenfield.

Welcome to the show. Well, folks, if you've been listening to the podcast lately, you know, I've gone way off the deep end. I've thrown a all my supplements out. No, I'm just kidding. I haven't thrown all my supplements out. But I have gotten into this whole idea of using, like, technology to elicit many of the same responses one might desire from, say, like, you know, foods or pharmaceuticals or supplements. And recently, I have been on kind of a roll talking about this stuff. Like last year, I showed you guys the Apollo, which is, like this wearable sound wave generating device that will elicit certain brainwaves that simulate what, you know, like, say, caffeine or melatonin or something like that could do for you. And then recently, a few weeks ago, I did a podcast about charging up your water. I talked about this infopathy device that'll put a glass of water on and kind of like pass the frequencies of any certain molecule into the water itself. And then there's this other thing I've been messing around with that I also find fascinating. And it's based off something kind of similar. All my guests explain a little more, but it's kind of similar to, like, a magnetic frequency. So it's not a sound wave. It's not something that you transfer into water. This one's more like a wearable magnetic frequency device. Kind of looks like a ring. It's called the HAP B. And you put it around your head or you wear it around your neck. And I've actually been using it, and I really dig it. And I wanted to get the guy who owns this company to talk a little bit about the technology because it's absolutely fascinating how it works. And I know you guys are always looking for cool devices. And look, I get it. When I do a podcast, it seems like at least once a month, I'll introduce all of you, my listeners, to some new Device. And it's like, well, Ben, there's, you know, I, I can't own like 20 different things. And the fact is, like a lot of this stuff, you got to try it and see if it works for you. Like, I probably get about 10 packages a day sent to my house of random objects. I try them all, I report back to you guys on the ones that I actually like that seem to work. And this one actually is something that I've been using, honestly, primarily I've been using it for naps in the middle of the day. But I also like it to give myself a kick of you what something like caffeine or nicotine might simulate when I don't have time to make a cup of coffee or smoke a cigarette. As you guys know, I do a lot, or if I just want to kind of use a little bit of better living through science because let's face it, some of this stuff just fun to play around with. So this one's called the Habby. And since it operates on these signals that you select from your phone, I'll link to it and also to everything that my guest Scott and I discuss. If you go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com signals, that's BenGreenfieldFitness.com Signals signals. We also have a link to this Hapbee device that will allow you to save some money on it if you want to try it for yourself. So Scott is a serial entrepreneur. He happens to have studied theology right here in my hometown in Spokane. We were chatting before he hopped on to record. And so he and I both have a few keen, similar interests as well as similar background geographically. But anyways, he. He's a serial entrepreneur. I was introduced to him by a friend who's kind of like in the biohacking industry who was swearing by this Hap B device. And Scott has joined the biotech world as a CEO of Hapbee. And so you also, by the way, Scott, are you still involved at Apex Leadership Company? I am the fitness and fundraising program for schools. You guys raise a lot of money for schools.

Yeah, yeah. My mission in life is to solve problems for a billion people is my goal. So the first one was 10 years ago. My wife is a first grade teacher, which makes her a saint by default. And she had to raise money for her school. And this was down here in Phoenix where we live now. And I started Apex just to help her class raise money in a healthy way. We wanted to do fitness leadership. Character of selling chocolate or magazines or pizza. Why not have the kids do something healthy. And so we launched Apex, and now it's the largest school fundraising company in the U.S. wow. And we've got, you know, $100 million plus raised for schools. We got 100 franchisees, and we have basically young athletes that go teach kids in schools. And I think we've served over. We just hit our 4 millionth customer at apex over the last 10 years.

So you guys are teaching kids how to be entrepreneurs too, right?

Yeah, yeah. We started another company called myfirstsale.com it's super fun. Basically, it's like Etsy for kids. It teaches them how to launch a business. And now we're doing virtual fairs with schools all over America. We saw the need when Covid hit last year. Just, why not help kids at home learn about entrepreneurship, about business, give them confidence for the future? So kids go on there and start a little business, and then we have a course for them, and then they make like a thousand bucks and they get excited about business.

Oh, my gosh. My. My. You know, my kids, you probably know, they have a food podcast, a cooking podcast@go greenfields.com and they're. They're actually wanting to develop and sell a product in conjunction with that podcast there, and they want it. You know, they kind of went and looked at some of these websites, you know, similar, like Alibaba, where you can import whatever, like aprons or Covid masks or whatever, and then brand them with your logo and sell them on your site. But I told them, look, guys, you should go for quality over quantity. Like, find something that can be kind of like the Tesla of cooking, like an amazing branded knife or, you know, like. Like a cutting board that's just like a piece of art in your kitchen, and design something really cool. And so I'll. I'll have to go explore this, my for sale website, see what you guys are doing, because it sounds right up the alley of kind of our own philosophy or the Greenfield House of, you know, unschooling and homeschooling. But I know a lot of my listeners are very into equipping kids to be young entrepreneurs as well. So I'll. I'll link to that one in the show notes. Even though that's not what I want to talk to you about today. You actually alluded just a few moments ago about you. You said, I'm not the scientist who invented Hapbee. So I got to hear how this thing came to life, man. Like, what. How did you come into the biotech world as the CEO of this company that's, that's, you know, like a wearable device.

Yeah. And little did I know we were going to explode this thing. We just went public and we just hit the hundred million dollar mark. This is insane, man. I, I am a problem solver and you know, I craft the message, I put the product and the people and the resources together. But no, the science behind this is Star Trek. This is crazy. So about 18 years ago, this technology was invented and I invested in the parent company out of Seattle. Emulate Therapeutics is their name. They are in the medical side of this technology, so I'm in the consumer side. So our company does consumer signals, things for sleep, things for alert, focus, calm, relax. We can actually imitate and emulate the effects of certain compounds to your body through a very, very precise magnetic field. Basically like feelings and sensations on command. It's like the Netflix of feelings is the goal here. But the science originated from a guy named Mike Butters and about a dozen other PhDs. In fact, our chief scientist at the parent company, Dr. Kenneth Ferguson, he led the team to invent Cialis. So he has a huge pedigree behind him. And this team of folks got together and they basically said, you know, what if Einstein was right with the string theory, then all things are connected at a subatomic level through sound and through frequency. And so let's see if we can prove it. And their thought was, what if the drugs that we intake into our body, what if the non covalent bonding drugs. Right, because there's covalent bonding and non covalent bonding. What if the non covalent bonding drugs that we ingest, what if there's a way to listen in and hear what that sounds like when it hits your cells? You know, we use the idea of ibuprofen. Ibuprofen is a non covalent bond. Aspirin's covalent. We can't do that technology, that's impossible for us.

And just so I can recall here from chemistry or physics, I don't remember the one in university where I studied this, covalent bonds is where you have a couple of atoms and they're sharing the electrons with each other. And then non covalent bonds, basically those are exchanging electrons between the two atoms.

Exactly, that's right. So think of it this way. A covalent bond, we look at it like this. A covalent bond is a chemical, you know, lock and key, enzyme, substrate bond to the receptor sites of a cell. That is a chemical link. That has to happen. It has to physically be there for it. To happen. Okay. That's how we look at a covalent bond. Food is this way. Okay. I cannot fill your stomach with a signal, however. And a lot of vitamins are this way and amino builders and things like that. But non covalent bonds are where it gets very interesting. Hormones, suppressants, stimulants, hormones, those types of compounds are non covalent predominantly. And what those are is just an exchange, like you said, of an electron. So.

So you could, you could almost say like it's a transfer of an electrical signal versus an actual almost like physical interaction.

Yes, that's right. It's a transfer of a signal. Almost like you're going to turn, you're shutting down a garage door with a remote control from a distance. That's kind of what's happening with these non covalent bonds. And so these scientists got together and said, you know what, we want to set out to try to see if we can emulate. Right. Which is the name of the parent company, emulate these non covalent bonds in the body just by creating a signal that's extremely precise. I mean, we're talking like 24 million bits of information in every single one of these signals that gets created. Okay. We're. These are multimillion dollar licenses for every single one of our feelings. The only technology available to them back in, you know, the mid-2000s was this magnetometer technology from the Navy. And this is where it gets sci fi interesting. They found these magnetometers and the navy uses them basically to find out where the nuclear subs are all throughout the Pacific in the Atlantic. Okay. Think of it like a propane tank, a four foot propane tank. And these devices are the world's most sensitive recording devices for magnetic frequencies. 10 to the negative, 15 centa Tesla of sensitivity. I'm talking 0.15 zeros before you get an actual reading here. These things are extremely fine and precise.

And it's based on magnetology is what you said.

Yep, that's right.

Okay, so is this the same type of magnetic field detection that you hear about, like sharks and humming bees and homing pigeons have like, they have magnetite built into their snouts or their beaks where they can actually detect magnetic fields and be able to navigate. What these magnetometers are doing is they're detecting the magnetic field that's output by any given physical substance. Anything that has an electron or an atom with electrons.

That's right. Okay, so these Magnetometers have a 2,000 mile radius. They can pinpoint where these subs are. Even fighter pilots as well, fighter jets from 2,000 miles away to a very, very precise, I mean, I'm talking like five yards, okay. Incredible technology. And the Navy's been using this for decades. And the company that created their technology was Tristan Technologies in San Diego. So these guys moved to San Diego, they're in Seattle, so they had labs in Seattle and San Diego. They basically cut a hole in the wall in San Diego with this parent, with this Tristan Group. And they bought a few, they pooled their money, they bought a few of these magnetometers and they went to work saying, okay, what if instead of listening externally, what if we could listen internally to a compound, to a molecule? And so it had to do with four years of work. Faraday cages around it, right, to block out outside noise, liquid helium pumping inside of it to create the atmosphere of outer space in an extremely quiet environment, adding prongs to be able to sense and record the magnetic frequencies coming off of these compounds. So, long story short, four years later, they started to get a reading from a few of these compounds that they were testing. And that was an extremely novel moment. And so that's when they said, okay, what if we could help with cancer? One of the founder scientists had a friend pass away of a brain tumor. And they said, you know what, let's go after brain cancer. Let's swing for the fences. Let me remind you, this is not a business. This wasn't a business thing. This was a. One of my friends died of a brain cancer. And what if we could imitate Taxol? That was the thought.

Remind me what Taxol is?

It's a chemo drug. It's an off patent chemotherapy drug that gets injected into the body and it's basically kills everything. Okay. But the hope is it kills the tumor faster than your body. Their thought was, you know, if we could get a signal from Taxol and play it onto the body and deliver even a portion of the effects, and what if we didn't have any of the negative side effects, the toxicological side effects? This would be a home run. Little did they know that it would take 15 years of FDA trials, which they're almost finished with now, but that was their first and greatest business.

But it could still be efficacious. If you simulated the signal. Signal and expose the body to the signal, it wouldn't still cause all the same damage that Taxol would cause.

That's right.

Why not?

Because there's nothing to be metabolized or digested.

Okay, so what you're talking about is like the issue is Say like first pass by the liver or something like that. If we could somehow bypass that, but induce the same effect in the cancer cell itself via a radio frequency, like an ultra low radio frequency, then you could get rid of a lot of like the digestive damage aspects of consuming something like Taxol.

That's right.

How would they actually target the cancer cell itself versus the entire body?

So they're going after very, very specific receptor sites. So when you have Taxol, you know, you're going right after this very, very specific type of cell and trying to really change the shape of the protein receptors on the cell to cause an effect in the body. And that's what they are working on. And they've helped over 200 people now in their, their trials. They're in FDA, I think they're through two and they're going into their pivotal now for three. And they've helped hundreds of people with glioblastoma, recurrent brain tumors, stage three and four. Amazing results, Amazing results. I mean I obviously, I'm not the scientist to give you the exact protocol of. We're very encouraged by X amount of. But I'm talking 40% increase in length of life. Okay. With a signal. This is, it's amazing. And they've also helped, you know, about 500 animals with the veterinary cancer centers of America just basically putting these coils onto the tumor site on these dogs and cats and having an amazing effect just by playing this signal. The other benefit is that they can play it 24, 7 because there's, you know, it's not like a 30 minute injection or anymore and you're going to die. If you can play this 24, 7 with a specific signal, you're constantly hitting the receptor sites to be able to deliver the effect. So that's why they're getting a net increase here. And there are still people today, mind you, that are wearing these medical grade signals on their heads. Six, seven years later.

That's where folks would wear it is on their head.

Yeah, it's on the, basically around the tumor site. They're wearing it like a halo around their head, like a headband. So that's how this tech started. You know, they really had one single goal is like, let's help people with brain cancer. This is a massive home run. And you know, they raised $80 million, there's 35 patents into this thing now, like I said, over a dozen doctors and scientists and I invested in that company. That's how I got involved. I invested in them back in 2007, in this emulate company in Emulate in Seattle? That's correct, yeah. We had some of our relatives invest. They told us about it. We all grew up on Whidbey island, north of Seattle together. They said, man, this company has some crazy dreams that are huge and they're novel and we need to help them. So I put in a lot of money at the time, I didn't have much at all and I gave them most everything I had to help because I really cared about that model and so invested in them back in 2007. They've been obviously they've been in FDA trials ever since. They've had six peer reviewed journal entries in CNS Oncology and other big publications. That's our parent company. And so they've been just working that for 15 years plus. You know, I love what they're doing now. They're looking into pain, they're looking into a few other markets. Well, long story short, these guys are in their 60s and 70s right now. They don't know apps really. They don't understand the consumer side of this. Just over two years ago I was running all these other businesses, loving what I was doing. One of the board members mentioned it and just said, hey, the Emulate is interested now in potentially pursuing the consumer side. And I raised my hand and just said, if you're going to do that with my investment, here's what it needs to look like. And I basically presented this entire vision to them, which wasn't at the time they were thinking about, well, what if we get a signal that was like triggering the endocannabinoids in Canada? We could help a lot of people feel a certain thing. Well, I basically pitched the vision of, you know what? No, let's go for broke. This is the Netflix of feelings. It's like Steve Jobs. Thousand songs in your pocket with the ipod. Let's create a thousand signals and sensations and feelings around your neck.

Like relaxation, energy, focus, like all the type of things that people would normally take a supplement for, for example, from compounds.

Yes. Let's figure it out and let's create the Netflix and create millions and millions of members here that they can download new signals every couple of months just like Netflix. And we'll grow this thing to bed form factors and things around your neck and ski helmets and yoga mats. And the list just goes on and on and on. And they, you know, in about 20 minutes they said, yep, but you have to do it. And so I obviously raised my hand, said, okay. So we started a new company, Happy H A p B E E Happy Technologies, we license their technology, they get us all the signals, we do all the animal studies, the safety studies, the placebo control, blinded studies and then we try them out in humans and go from there. And that's how it started.

Fascinating. Okay, so this emulate therapeutics, what they developed was like a head worn device. It's almost like a coil and I'm actually holding the Happy in my hands right now and it's basically like a, like a frequency generating device that looks like a coil. So this is basically the one that emulate originally developed and then you guys have taken it and created almost like a consumer model of it.

That's right, yeah. The parent company had like a medical device, like a blue headband white cord, a long cord going into a big box. And that box only played one signal. Right. It didn't have any WI fi, bluetooth capability. And what I had to pitch and try to get everyone to understand was this is a platform technology. You guys have created a multi billion dollar platform technology. And my job is to get this to be easy to use, easy to download and easy for people to use multiple signals. Most of our members now we've got 3,000 plus members using Happy they use it for. The average person uses three different signals at least. Okay. Of the first six and they're all over the map. Everybody likes different signals, which was my thought. It was like we don't want to just go out with sleep, we want to have alert and focus and relax. And Happy, right. Which mimics a couple of happy hour drinks and then sleepy at night which is a sleep aid. So that was the vision of the business. And I think most people are, you know, they're getting it, they're in, they're understanding and enjoying it. You know, we have about 5% of people who are like, they don't respond very much. There's a block, there's a trauma, there's something that makes it hard for them to experience all the signals. And those people, we usually do coaching calls or we'll give them their money back. Right. There's a 30 day money back guarantee so anybody can use it risk free. And if you enjoy it, keep going. If you don't like it, we'll give your money back and someone else needs your product. We got people waiting. So you know that's, it's one of those things where we want to keep it above board, keep it scientific and let people just try it out. This is a new thing. I don't want people to take a huge Risk I want them to just say, you know what, I want to see if it's good for me and if I like it, I'm going to use it.

And so in a nutshell, what you could do is let's say you want to take, let's say cannabidiol or cbd, you could use the emulate technology. You could simulate the frequency that, that non covalent bonding would normally generate within the body. You could then enable that frequency to be delivered say like via an app that will store all the different signals. And I think your, your app right now has what, six, six signals in it for alertness, relaxation, sleepiness, calm. And what's the last one? Like focus.

Happy and focus.

Yeah, happy and focus. You could basically flip on the device, sync it to the app, tell the app, okay, I want to generate, say like I want to relax, I want generate a CBD like signal and then I could put this on my head or I've actually been hanging around my neck. I like it better hung around my neck. Right. And then just sit back and let it do its thing.

That's right. And usually within a couple minutes it starts to take effect. For people who are more sensitive, the people who do, you know EKG and brain work and meditation work and they understand this world. It's a couple minutes. If people are very new to this, it might take 15, 20 minutes, even a few attempts. Like the alert signal, took me three tries to feel it. The happy signal was five minutes the first time. So the more you do it, the faster you feel it, the more the sensations come on and you understand what's going on. Because there's a little bit of a neural pathway timeline. Your brain has to understand what's happening to it. But once you've built those pathways, your brain's like, yep, awesome, let's go.

I think that's what a lot of people don't understand in the wearable industry is a lot of these act on, on that so called entrainment principle that you've just alluded to where the brain does almost have to become conditioned to receiving the signal. And I've, I've noticed that with, with most of these like so called infoceutical type of devices like, like the Infopathy one I was talking about or the Apollo, like increased frequency of use seems to, rather than as one might expect, cause some kind of like a, like a usage effect that would condition you to not be as sensitive to the signal. Instead, repeated use seems to enhance receptivity to the signal which is Kind of weird because a lot of times with like a pharmaceutical or a supplement, you gradually become used to it and then you got to take more or wean yourself off it or take a break from it, whereas these things just seem to kind of become more effective the more that you use it. At least that's what I found subjectively, and that's what a lot of people have reported. And thus you get something, you try it, you try it a couple times, it doesn't work, you send it back, whereas you try it 10 to 12 times, and all of a sudden it just starts working dramatically when it comes to efficiency and the rapid onset of the effect that you feel. And so, like I mentioned, I've primarily been using this HAP bee by hanging it around my neck. And I have this elaborate napping routine where every afternoon after lunch I'll climb into this soft shell hyperbaric chamber that I have, which is kind of like a sensory deprivation chamber where nobody can bother me because I'm zipped up in there. It'll take four minutes to get me out if the house starts on fire. But I'm just keeping my fingers crossed as I lay in there and I wear the hat be and put on some nice calming signals. I like to use that new calm app, and then I just lay back and drift off. And I'm an overachiever, so I also put that Apollo around my ankle and kind of kind of stack all three. The new calm, the happy, and the Apollo. And so I'm laying in there like an astronaut, just covered in gear. And I have these amazing relaxation or meditation sessions where I can drop myself in super deep within like two minutes flat and then come out and not be groggy. And I can even the other one I've been using with the HAP B is focus, which seems to give me a very similar effect to almost like nicotine. And so I'll put it on, like, after I get off from my nap, I'll flip it into, like a focus mode to kind of gradually wake myself up rather than, say, sucking down an afternoon cup of coffee. And it seems to work really well. One thing I was going to ask you, because I do have a few kind of practical usage questions, as I'm prone to do when it comes to these wearables, is do you think I would get a better effect if I wear around my head versus around my neck? Or what kind of experience are you getting reported from your customers?

So far it's 50 50. There's no definitive head or neck I mean, we just tell people, try them both, figure out which one you like. I mean, sometimes if you wear it on your head, it can be a little bit of a disturbance rather than if you wear it. Like for me, I just wear it under my shirt, around my neck, and nobody can tell anything except for the glowing logo. That kind of makes you look like Iron man, which you can turn that off if you want to. But I like to look like Iron Man. It's pretty cool.

No, I like to take the glowing logo off because I did that with the app. I disabled all the lights, just especially if I'm using it for sleep. I don't want the lights going off. Yeah, the other thing you said was you put under your clothes, but if I have it hanging around my neck and it's like over a hoodie or something, will it still pass through clothing? The frequency?

Yeah, it passes through bone, muscle, everything, skin. It's whatever's inside that halo. So that's just a copper coil wound around. So we are giving you an extremely Precise frequency with 24 million bits of information. And we're blocking out other signal. We're blocking out other emf. Okay, so it's actually blocking out bad and giving you a very, very defined, precise signal that the goal of it is to create a. Elicit a specific response, change the shape of receptors to cause an effect that a compound would do to your body. That's really our goal. When you start to think about it, that gives us hundreds, if not thousands of different opportunities here to be able to give people certain feelings and sensations. I mean, we have 18 more signals in the labs right now that we're working on. And we're within weeks of getting out our next signal to all of our members. For I think we're gonna have another sleep signal coming because it's sleep month, right? We have sleep week starts today. So we're gonna have a really cool sleep. It's more of a sleep trigger versus a sleep regulator, which is the one in the app right now. So that's the next one we're coming out with. We have another alert that's stronger, inspired by the main ingredients of chocolate, believe it or not.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

Because right now, right now, alert seems to kind of simulate caffeine, like a cup of coffee.

Yep, that's right.

Now, what if I use alert? And this is, I guess, kind of similar to the Taxol related question where I mentioned that you would be concerned about potential organ damage from the Taxol signal. And it sounds like by bypassing the digestion of the pharmaceutical itself or the liver pass that you alleviate those issues. Now, what about if you use something like alert to get awake and focus, but you use alert for, say, like a nighttime dinner party would you then have the same effects that you might be concerned about with caffeine disrupting the circadian rhythm later on? Like, how long does do the effects kind of stick with you, so to speak?

We actually have not been able to see that because within 15 to 30 minutes after taking a signal off, it's almost like it dissipates from your body. There's none of theagain, the toxicological side effects, or the liverpass, which is what holds these things in your body for five, six hours. Okay, so for us, it's just turn it on when you need it and then turn it off. You can play these signals now up to four hours sleep's gonna increase. Right. We're about to create playlists next as well. So once we get another sleep signal, our goal is to allow people to almost create their own playlist throughout the night or throughout the workday. We have a lot of people that use alert, focus back and forth. I mean, we have different types of contingencies of our members. Some of them use it maybe like you and I, we use it once or twice a day, you know, for a few minutes or for an hour or two. I love using focus and alert throughout the day, and I'll use relax at night because my muscles just melt, like after a workout in the afternoon. Relax is my go. To some people, though, they really use us instead of turning to us a substance that maybe they were addicted to or something that they know that they have a habit of, they want to cut back. Maybe they drink way too much coffee or they drink way too much alcohol or, you know, for me, I saved 50,000 calories not drinking an extra drink last year.

You mean extra, extra alcohol drink?

That's right. I have one Manhattan and I play the happy signal. Feels like three to four. It's fantastic.

You know, I haven't actually messed around with it much for kind of like, you know, because like that Apollo device I was talking about, it's got social mode and almost. Honestly, it feels like a microdose of MDMA or something like that or. Or maybe a couple drinks of alcohol. And I haven't really used the happy much in social situations, namely because I just haven't. Yeah, I mean, it's a little bit big, but I guess, you know, just putting it around my neck, I guess, is a Conversation starter.

If anything true or under your shoe.

Yeah, yeah, I'll have to try that, though. I actually have a little dinner party tonight I'm throwing for a few family members and maybe I'll hang it around my neck and just see what I'd notice and skip the glass of wine or just do like one small glass of wine and mess around with it a little bit. Now, anytime that you guys add a new signal, a new molecule that you've tested and you've got the frequency of that molecule, and then you transfer into the app, basically, if someone has the device, then their app will automatically update with that signal.

Yep. And they get unlimited use as members, just like they do with all the other signals. So everything has to go through an evaluation protocol as well. So again, the doctors behind this and scientists, it's first do no harm. So every time, you know, we request a new signal, it has to go through animal testing. For basic behavior test. They have to show mild somnolence, mild, you know, hyperactive hypoactive. They have to show behavior change with these signals. And then we have like with. We're working. We're working on a diet suppressant right now, Ben. So we are literally testing the mice and how much they're eating when they're playing our signal versus the control groups as we speak. So we have to do that first because mice don't have a placebo. Mice are mice, and they don't know that they're even getting a signal. And so we even blind our lab techs at the third party CRO because we don't want them to be impressed that there may be a certain signal on a certain cage. Like, they don't even know which is which. And just for the record, for the first six signals, when we did those tests a year and a half ago, they were 100% accurate in their guesses. The lab techs, when it was done.

Wow. Are you guys running any other studies on it right now?

Yep. We're doing a sleep study with 100 people that just launched this last week. Because it's sleep week. It's a good marketing thing as well as good science. And then we have Cambridge Brain Science doing a memory focus study as we speak. And then last May 2020, we did our first blinded placebo controlled human tests. So we did 92 sessions with a bunch of folks who were onboarded, so they understood how to use the device. They'd done a few sessions just to kind of get their bearings straight. And then I think they did three sessions and then we said, okay, we're going to play a signal with you. And this was virtually. So we weren't there to change their mind. Right. Physically, this was just a signal going to them, and they didn't know if it was on or off. Like, it would play, but they didn't know if there was nothing coming through or something happening. And they were 100% accurate in guessing if it was on or off. Then we moved into alert, sleepy, or off. So you don't know if it's alert or sleepy or if it's off. You don't know you're getting a signal, but you don't know which one it is. And they were 100% accurate in that guess as well. And so we just kept going down that path with tons and tons of folks. And then the only time we hit a hiccup is between the relax and the sleepy signals so far. Which one is a muscle relaxant from your neck down, and the other one is a sleep aid. Right. Which helps basically get you ready for sleep. And to be honest, I had to do it 100 times before I could tell the difference. It's like almost like Merlot versus Malbec. Right. I mean, they are very similar. And so people were 73% accurate in those guesses toto tell which one it was, but they still could tell if it was on or off. I mean, obviously they knew that, but they didn't know if it was sleepy or relaxed.

Okay. So I just put mine. I'm holding mine in my hand, my hat be in my hand. I just put on alert. And then the app comes up and says Alert was inspired by the jolt you get from an energy drink to help you feel more sharp, vigilant, and aware. It mimics a cup of coffee without the digestive issues. It's great for studying, running errands before a big meeting, on a long road trip, and while playing music or sports. So it's on now. And actually, if I hold up, up to the microphone.

You hear that? I do, yeah.

Okay. So I can. I can. It's producing that frequency. And then if I put it around my neck, it might be disruptive for the podcast. I actually haven't worn it during podcasting before. Let me see if I put it around my neck here.

If.

And then I got to put my headphones back on.

There's a little bit of a fuzz.

Can. Can you hear it? Just a little bit.

But if you go. If you go, try to go more than 6, 7 inches away from the microphone. Then you. There's no more fuzz.

Yeah, it'll diminish. But the reason I did that in real time was I know people are going to ask about this. Gotta figure out how to take this thing off. I'll take it off while you're answering the question. So we get rid of that background buzz for folks like the EMF issue. Right. So if we can hear this signal, etc. Etc. Are you concerned at all? Well, first of all, I should mention the Bluetooth can be totally disabled through the app. So you can start it up, disable the Bluetooth, and the app is no longer connecting to the device and the device simply keeps playing the signal that you've told it to play. But have you tested it for other forms of emf specifically?

Yeah. In fact, we are at the extremely low end here of signal play. So we are about 1/30,000th of what your cell phone puts off, by the way.

I'm going to interrupt you for just a second. I just put it on my thigh. I think it'll work because you can't hear that anymore, right?

Yeah, I can't hear that.

Will it work around my upper thigh?

It's localized, so yeah. I mean, as it circulates through your body that you're going to get trace amounts.

So probably yeah, I can actually feel it like going down my leg right now.

By the way, people use relax because it's a muscle relaxant. They use it around their joints and muscles like on their knee or their lower back. A lot of people do that. Fitness folks, athletes, we have a lot of pro athletes, the Dodgers, the director of performance and the Dodgers just reached out on Sunday, so yesterday morning to ask us if we would be interested in partnering with them. Because obviously, you know, athletes, they don't want to take performance enhancing drugs. They don't want anything in their system because there's all the drug tests. But they would love to use a technology like this for flights. Right. Going back and forth between games on a flight using the relaxed signal or the sleepy signal would be an incredible way to enhance performance for them without anything in their body. And so we got that request just yesterday. So a lot of fitness folks, we have some NFL athletes using it, some Hollywood elites using it, like with people are starting to hear about it because they're looking for a very specific effect and it' sit's helpful to them without any potentially negative substances in the body.

Yeah. Okay, so the EMF, that is basically very, very low because WiFi and Bluetooth can both be disabled. And then this radio frequency is based on your guys testing non problematic.

Yeah. We had. Dr. Joe Mercola was like one of our first people to be like, look, he's super picky. Yeah. Because he wrote the book emfed. Right. So he's big on that. And so he. For me, he was my, like, test here. Okay. Like, let's get past Joe and we. This thing is a home run. And his biggest thing was, look, your Bluetooth chip, he didn't even care about the signals. Just between you and I, he knew they worked. That wasn't the issue. And they didn't have any, really. The EMF release was very, very small. Like, on the same par as what your brain gives off. Right. Your brain, your heart, they give off EMFs. Like, we're talking good, small, very localized EMF. He didn't care about that. He cared about the Bluetooth chip, which is the same thing you and I talked about. He's like, you do not want to be connecting to that phone, which connects to a million satellites and having this Bluetooth chip be humming around. So just make it airplane mode and we're all good to go. Once we did that, things were good. We have. It's like DC to 22 kilohertz. I mean, that's how small these signals are. Mutual friend, Dave Asprey, he was one of the first guys to break this out to the world with us. He and I tried this in a back room. The alert signal in 30 seconds in Seattle. He's like, oh, my gosh, this thing's gonna change.

I didn't even know Joe knew about it. He and I talk a lot. I gotta ask him how he's using it.

Yeah. Yep. And Joe Polish, Dan Sullivan, Jim Kwik, all those guys were some of the first people to use this and tell it out, you know, bring it out to the world. And so, in fact, Dan Sullivan has been wearing this 10 plus hours a day for the last five months straight. And he just told me this last week on a coaching call with all of these, you know, he's got. He's the world's top coach, right. He's got 3,000 of the top business people that he coaches. He is absolutely loving this thing. And he has been telling everyone in his network, this is good for energy, for performance and productivity, for relaxation and de stress and then sleep. He's been telling the world about this. He's been one of our biggest proponents, as well as Joe Polish and Dave Asprey. So, yeah, it's been fun getting the word Out.

So are there any unique uses? Has anybody ever tried this out with their pet, for example, or with baby? I'm just curious if there's different uses that people have reported on that might be more unique ways to use this.

Yeah, a lot we have kids and pets are like the biggest ones people talk about because nobody wants to give their kids drugs. And so a lot of people, kids with attention issues or kids that need to be focused on schoolwork or a project, they'll try these on them. Maybe kids that just need to relax, they'll try those out. We've had hundreds of those examples already with great result. The pets one is interesting because our parent company Emulate right now is wanting to get into pets. We have not launched a form factor for pets yet, but we have some very large partners wanting to launch them and get those licenses going for pets. Because we have so many customers who are like, hey, when my cat or my dog are sitting next to me, like something changes in their demeanor. Like they're extreme, like a relax signal, for instance. They're not yippee, like someone comes the door. They're way less like yippee and barking, or an older dog who's achy and sore and has a lot of issues. These signals are very, very helpful for those animals. So I think animals are actually more sensitive than humans. I don't know a lot of the science on that, but I can only imagine if people are reporting this, you know, usually every few days we're getting a message in saying, hey, can I use this around my dog's neck? My 14 year old, you know, Labrador retriever. And we're like, well, there's, you know, we can't stop you. But if it's gonna work on a human, the very, very similar technology will work on a pet. So we have seen that in a lot of different cases. And I think it's not the right form factor. Right. Like right now we're working on a bed topper form factor. We're working on some massage table stuff. We have a patent pending. We just applied for our patent like a month ago for the sleep.

So you could do like a full body treatment, same technology, and just be like laying down on your mattress or whatever.

That's right. Like the Beamer. If people have heard of the Beamer, it's like that, but so much more precise. So think of this. Here's my pitch on the bed. We're about two months into our bed form factor. Imagine a little bit of a very, very lightweight mattress topper with Four halos, okay. In the pad. So you don't have to wear anything at all. It just goes underneath your fitted sheet, and it plugs into the wall. And you can tell the product to play a specific playlist all night long, right. For up to 12 hours. Anything from something with blood related to blood flow. Like, we're working on performance and vasodilators right now with blood flow. Something like that can happen between couples or to help with, you know, basically, blood flow is good for a lot of things in your health. Start with that signal and then go to a sleepy signal throughout the night, right? Like a sleep trigger and then a sleep regulator. We're actually working on diet signals as well for digestion. And then wake you up with alert five minutes before your alarm goes off so that when you get up, there's not the groggy. You're just ready to go.

Do all these recipes run for an hour? Because you were mentioned four hours earlier. But from my own use, and I think my firmware is all updated, all of them seem to run for 60 minutes.

You might need the newest app, but, yes, as of two months ago or a month and a half ago, you can play these up to 4 hours.

So as little as my apps on my phone aren't on auto refresh, so that might be why.

Got it.

I have to update.

So anybody listening out there, make sure you get the newest version of the app, because, yeah, a lot of people love the choose your own, you know, adventure timeline. Like, so you now you can play it 15 minutes, all the way up to four hours at a time. And then with the bed topper, we're gonna make it so that you can choose your own playlist all night long, because our real goal is to help, you know, with a full night's sleep rejuvenation. Deep rem Good hrv. Like, that's really the goal of this topper. And there's gonna be four sections of the topper. One for your head, one for your chest, one for your midsection, one for your legs and feet. Okay. So you can play these signals, you know, over your whole body or just over one of these sections. Or you can have multiple signals at different places. Maybe you have a sore lower back, you know, maybe, you know, stuff with your hips, you could play a relaxed signal there. And then for your head, you could play the sleepy signal. So that this is next level, man. We're really, really excited about it.

Okay, cool. I just wrote a reminder to myself to go update the app after this, because I Do like that idea of having it like when I lay down for sleep, I can put it in sleepy mode, which seems to really simulate what melatonin would do. But I can have that run for like four hours instead of an hour. And then with this new technology that you're developing the ability to make playlists, I could for example, put it on relax to generate more of a CBD like signal, run that for like an hour and then have it switch to more like a melatonin sleepy signal. And I could even say at 6am shift into like alert for more of like a caffeine type of response.

That's right. Yup.

That's pretty cool.

Yeah, that's, that's what I like to build that for me. I'm like, that's gonna be the coolest product. So this, this headband is almost like the original ipod, right? Like the ugly big brick ipod, you know. And people are buying it because they love getting in on the ground floor, they love using it, they love enjoying it with their family or their friends. But you know, we have so many more types of form factors to build. I think our list is at like 14 right now of the future form factors and things that we want to make for folks like, because think about it, like imagine having a sleeve for your work chair, right, that helps with your spine, you know, relaxation and energy throughout the workday. Like a ski helmet. I love skiing, but this product isn't perfect for that.

But I would love one get Elon Musk on board and Tesla can put the technology into their car seats. Maybe leave the sleepy and relax one out of there.

Oh, you better.

Yeah, sky's the limit. This is super cool. Now when it comes to the actual model for consumers, basically someone buys the hardware and then downloads the app. And what your guys business model is basically a subscription based business model to where to maintain all your access to all the signals and everything. You as a user of the device just like have like a monthly fee that you pay.

That's right. Yep. The whole family pays 19 bucks a month, just like Netflix 15 if they pay for the year. And then they get unlimited access to all of our current and future signals that join the app. So the goal here is to ultimately have Netflix like choose between diet suppressants and memory. We have memory signals we're working on with Jim Kwik right now. We have performance signals, alert, all the six that you're talking about right now, and then a bunch more, you know, motion things for motion things for your gut health, things for mitochondrial health. Like ifif a non covalent bond can do it, that's our target.

And then if someone buys the actual hardware. So how much does the hardware itself cost?

It's like 300 bucks. Little over 300 bucks.

Okay, so the little headband's like 300 bucks, and it's 19 bucks a month after that.

Yep, that's right.

Okay, gotcha. And then I think we have like a special discount for my listeners. It's like, I believe it's like a hundred dollars.

Yeah.

That you save something like that.

I think for your listeners it is the 80 bucks off. So it's like 379. And then they'll get it like 299 for your link. And we'll do happy.comben for anyone who wants to listen. H a p b e-e.com Ben will be the link and we'll keep it up for folks.

Okay, cool. So. So that will basically save people on the hardware.

That's right. Yep.

Cool. I dig it. I dig it. Well, I've been. I mean, I've been using it, I've been testing it, like I mentioned, and I. I really dig it. I was, I was honestly concerned about the EMF at first, and then based on the testing I've done with my little. My little. What do you call it? Forget the name of my, my EMF testing devices.

Oh, Gauss Black one.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. It's minimal on that. And then I just, I flip it on and I always have my phone in airplane mode anyways. Disable the Bluetooth and then just leave it on. So I don't have any concerns from that standpoint. And I think this is really cool. I'm excited for some of my listeners to try it out and let us know what they think. And like I mentioned, you know, I don't want to confuse people and say you got to own like a billion different devices, but some of them I try and use and they, like, stick and then the rest kind of get shelved or they wind up out in the garage. And I've been before. I arranged Scott to have this podcast with me just so you guys know who are listening. I've been messing around with this thing for about two months now, and I like it. And it's one of those ones that's actually stuck with me. And yeah, sometimes I do stack it. Like, I'll combine it with the Apollo or, you know, I'll drink a cup of coffee and use this in alert mode for like a double whammy effect. Because I'm an overachiever, but I really, really like the fact that I can use it. I haven't used it on an airplane yet, but I'm headed to Mexico with my kids on Thursday. So I'm gonna try on the airplane and see, see if I can get a good airplane nappy poo wearing this thing or maybe see if it'll conquer any of the jet lag from a long haul flight. So I'm stoked. This thing's a ton of fun, so nice job, man. I dig it.

And stay tuned too. I mean, I'd love to have you in our beta group. Our exciting thing here is we can release new signals once our tech is finished. In the next like two weeks, we'll be able to launch a lot of signals for testing. So we'll have you behind the scenes testing out some of our future exciting signals here that are coming through the pipeline. I'm really, really excited about the. The next four I think are going to be really, really fun because people sometimes feel it too much. Right? Like 10% of our users, it's too strong and they have to take it off after three, four minutes because it's like so strong they feel gonna get a headache.

That happened to my neighbor actually, because he, he saw mine and tried it on at a party ahead of my house and liked it and bought it. But it was almost like too much for him. Yeah, but he was super sensitive, so.

So we need a lower dose for him. And then for other people, they want more. So our goal here is to create sensations and feelings for your body and then we'll have like a high, low dose of each so that people can choose kind of how they want to feel. Some people want more, some people want less.

Well, I'm stoked and I'm gonna link to this thing in the show notes. So like Scott mentioned HAPBE, it's H A P B E-E.com Ben is where you can go get one and then also just put all of the show notes@bengreenfieldfitness.com signals if you want to access the show notes, some of the research and I'll put that same link in the show notes as well. So you guys have it. And Scott, this is super fascinating and I appreciate you coming on to explain all this to us because I always like to get the person who knows the ins and outs of some device that I'm using on the show. So thanks for coming on, man.

Absolutely. Thanks for having me.

All right, folks, so it's BenGridgefulFitness.com signals for the show notes grab a happy@h-a P B e-e.com Ben until next time, I'm Ben Greenfield along with Scott Donnell. Do you say Donnell or Donnell?

Donnell. Good enough.

Donnell Scott Donnell signing out from BenGreenfieldFitness.com have an amazing week.

Well, thanks for listening to today's show. You can grab all the show notes, the resources, pretty much everything that I mentioned over@BenGreenfieldFitness.com along with plenty of other goodies from me, including the highly helpful Ben Recommends page, which is a list of pretty much everything that I've ever recommended for hormones, sleep digestion, fat loss, performance, and plenty more. Please also know that all the links, all the promo codes that I mentioned during this and every episode help to make this podcast happen and to generate income that enables you me to keep bringing you this content every single week. So when you listen in, be sure to use the links in the show notes. Use the promo codes that I generate because that helps to float this thing and keep it coming to you each and every week.