Altered States of Consciousness, Energy Vortices, Breath Work vs. Psychedelics, Dangers of Plant Medicine, Pairing Fasting With Prayer, Meditation & Breath & Much More With Anahata Ananda.

On this episode of the Ben Greenfield.

Fitness Podcast, when the body feels vibration, it begins to shift things that are held in the cells and in the consciousness and in the emotional and the energetic body, giving permission to express whatever is right under the surface, whatever it is, because it's medicine to just let it out.

Achieving an altered state of consciousness by doing the hard work, right, by actually taking the path to the top of the mountain, versus, like, popping a pill and having a helicopter drop you off at the top of the mountain. Performance, nutrition, longevity, ancestral living, biohacking, and much more. My name is Ben Greenfield. Welcome to the show. Hey, I got a chance to podcast with my dear friend Anahata Ananda from Sedona, who's a breathwork practitioner. Crazy breathwork practitioner. Breathwork practitioner on steroids, meaning she's not on steroids, but her breath work certainly is. Well, this is going to be a special episode, you guys, for a couple of reasons. First of all, the podcast guest who I'm going to interview and who's actually going to chat with me, or I guess interview me as well today is somebody who's been on my show before. We did a podcast episode like three or four years ago called Magic Chocolate, Holotropic Breathwork, Grounding, earthing, vortexes, crystals and more. And I recorded that podcast when I went down to Sedona. That was my first time ever in Sedona. And I did different sound healing sessions and visited all sorts of wonderful restaurants and eateries down there like the Chocolate Tree. And I bought rocks and crystals for my children and my wife and had an amazing time in Sedona. And then a few months ago, I finally decided to go back to Sedona and I ventured there along with the co founder and the CEO of my nutrition supplements company, Kion. His name is Angelo. And Angelo and I went back to Sedona because I remembered it being such a special place. And we wanted to do kind of this business personal getaway to really connect. And as part of that, I decided to go back and see this person who I'd done that healing session with, that kind of like holotropic ish breathwork session with. And her name is Anahata Ananda and she's known as a shaman jellic healer. And so Angela and I dropped in and saw her and it was absolutely transformative, even better than I had remembered. Maybe it was because I was doing it with somebody else or I was just more mindful or present, or perhaps because I've experimented with breathwork so much for the past three or four years, I was so comfortable with it, but it was absolutely amazing. Profound physiological experience similar to what one might experience from plant medicine or psychedelics, but in kind of a drug free format. And so Anahata is a very, very special person. Now, I really let you get to know her pretty well in our first podcast that we did together. But just in case you didn't get a chance to listen to that one, first of all, I'm gonna link to that original podcast and everything else that Anahata and I talk about if you go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com Anahata2 like BenGreenfulFitness.com Anahata the number two because our second podcast together. But just so you know, she lives in Sedona. She founded this company called shamangelic Healing in Sedona and she guides people on these profound journeys of healing and spiritual awakening via breathwork. She's literally helped thousands of people. You may have heard her on other podcasts before. We have some mutual acquaintances and people like Drew Canole and Aubrey Marcus and some other folks who frequent Sedona. And she also has a podcast called the I'm Angelic Healing Podcast. And I should warn you that when Anahata and I decided to do this podcast, even though you're hearing me talking a whole lot right now, I'll shut my yapper. Pretty soon we decided that she would be able to interview me a little bit for her show as well. So you guys might notice that during this interview, it's kind of like me talking with Anahata and her talking with me a little bit. And hopefully you're cool with that. But anyways, if you ever get a chance to go to Sedona, Anahata gives these in person sessions and ceremonies and retreats, and she does a lot of coaching and online courses and virtual workshops as well. So she's definitely a person to add to your checklist of people to look into. So, all that being said, Anahata, welcome to the show.

Oh my gosh, what a beautiful intro. I'm honored we have had such a beautiful time together. Both times that you visited Sedona. Thank you for your kind words. And yeah, both times have been deeply profound experiences. And I remember it would have been about four years ago, the first time that you came to Sedona, and I remember you walking in with your toe wrapped, you were limping, you know, and you were training. It was a time when you were training really, really hard. And one of the things that I've witnessed in you, Ben, over the years. First of all, you're just prolific. You're just full on with the way you lead with your company, the way you lead with amazing products. A prolific author. You're really just a role model, I think, for, you know, doing great work and putting solutions out there in so many forms, whether it's your videos as a podcast, your books and products, and your latest book, Boundless. You know, this is amazing book. I want to acknowledge this shift that you've made in the last couple years since I met you first and since we saw you recently with Angelo here in Sedona. From pain cave being, you know, a big driving force years ago to now, this message of prioritizing joy and love and play and laughter and music. And I've just watched this shift in you and I feel like it's such deep medicine that you're alchemizing.

Yeah, well, I've gotten a lot more woo since the first time that we met when I was very, I guess, Yang. And I think I was training for my very final Iron man when I saw you. And you know, as, as Ironman Triathlo goes, kind of like crossfitting or Spartan racing or anything else, you're always injured, you're always using some kind of tape or brace or something to keep like the body parts that are failing together to finally get you to that starting line because, you know, God forbid you set your ego aside and just decide to let your body rest. And yeah, I remember that first time I came to you. I think I came to you because I was like, I'll do anything to get my body put together for this race. And we did some really cool breath work. But I think, yeah, coming back and meeting with you along with Angelo was just a totally different experience. And I think part of it really is being in Sedona. You know, I had this guy, his name is Brian Hoyer, and he came to my house up here in Spokane and he did what was called an EMF analysis. Like he analyzed the whole home for, you know, where cell phone towers might be emitting signals through the windows to, you know, areas where WI fi or Bluetooth might be subjecting someone to excess levels of non native emf. And he even went so far to look at how all these different subterranean water currents and mineral deposits and fault lines underneath our house and on our property, we're generating these so called geopathic stressors. And you know, my wife was kind of annoyed because he was like, hey, gotta move your bed 10ft in this direction because it's right over a geopathic stressor spot. And he was really explaining, explaining to us how the Earth actually has certain energetic frequencies that it emits. And I found this fascinating. Slash. Yeah, I was a little bit skeptical about it, but then I got to thinking, you know, when you look at all these different areas around the world, like, you know, the healing waters of Lourdes in France, or I know Big Sur and Kauai, Hawaii are a couple other places that are known to having for having like this really positive energy, this, this feeling that you have in your feet hit the ground, especially if you're barefoot. You know, you feel these, these energies and they even call them, you know, energy vortices. And you know, when I think about Sedona and the feeling that I get when I go there, it's like an automatic, I guess, rather than describing it, I'm going to make a sound. It's like a, you know, when you get there. I don't, I don't know. Did you experience that compared to other places that you've been to in the world?

Yeah.

Or is it all just a load of hooey?

It's so not. That's the thing is that one of the things about my journey is I've been finding that there are different places where I just feel better or stressed. And I started studying locations as a form of nutrition and where, you know, the elements intersect or anywhere where I feel more energized or less energized. And I start to ask why. And one of the things about Sedona is, yes, there's these electrical currents happening all around here in Sedona, but we haven't built over top of them. That's one of the things that is different here, is that the energy is free. And also the land here is hundreds of millions of years old. And so there's a lot of minerals which amplify the electrical current and there's a lot of crystals that also amplify the electrical current. So what you're experiencing here is an amplifier. And for better or worse, whatever you're feeling like, it'll have a spiritual amplifier. If you're going through emotional stuff, it'll be an emotional amplifier. If you're tired, it'll be. You'll want to sleep a lot. If you're energized, you'll be up at 4 in the morning. And so I worked together as a co facilitator because Sedona is working her own magic. And then I add mine to that and it's a nice blending. But I find that being here, I have to be really attuned and listen to my body because if something's out of alignment, it's going to be amplified. And so it keeps me really, you know, true to honoring my body wisdom or if something isn't right. So, yes, Sedona is why a lot of people come here. For healing, for clarity, for rejuvenation, for rest, for spiritual connection.

Yeah, it's a lot easier to get to than another spot like, say, Stonehenge. You know, Sedona is pretty accessible.

Sure. Peru or something like that. Yeah, it's accessible. And I wanted to acknowledge this is one of the reasons in the shift that I was acknowledging in you in these last few years of just as a CEO of Kion, to be able to say, yeah, Angelo and I and you coming to Sedona for your business strategy session in a place where you're not just hardcore hitting the computer all day and looking at stats and analysis, but actually coming here to like exhale and deepen your connection as business partners, to build trust, to be outside, to allow creative flow to happen, to come to me and do shamagelic breathwork. And I'm like, if every CEO was starting and team was doing their strategy sessions that way, I think we'd have a very different, you know, you have a different success measure.

I know some, some CEOs and some people who are in business together who will actually go off on retreats and do LSD together, you know, or journey on psilocybin together. And I totally get how you can merge the left and right hemispheres of the brain and dissolve the ego and probably achieve some breakthroughs and some personal and business insights that you might not have been able to without tweaking those dials in your brain, so to speak. And yet magic mushrooms are not necessarily required to actually experience breakthroughs that are very similar, particularly when you're using something like breathwork. Anybody who listens to my show knows that I've said this before, that I think one of the best ways to tweak your physiology drug free is with tapping into the power of your own breath, which also happens to be free and have a lot of less kind of biological blowback as well. You know, risk of serotonin and dopamine imbalances and, you know, neurotoxicity and some of the other stuff that goes along with hefty use of these plant medicines, which, which, again, I don't have anything against, it's just you know, I think that there are other ways you can go about doing things. And so for Angelo and I, we really wanted to kick off our session there in Sedona with something meaningful and decided to do it with you. And it was just. I don't know. Can we talk a little bit about the actual work that you do?

Absolutely.

Okay, cool.

I love this as a tool, just like you said, as an alternative to plant medicines. Maybe people can't get there, or it's not the right tool, or they're having diminishing returns. And this is one of the reasons why this is one of my favorite tools to offer in my healing practice. For sure.

Right. Or psilocybin gives them a rash. You know, all sorts of reasons. So anyways, when angel and I showed up, you have this beautiful property out in Sedona, and, you know, I'd come and seen you before, so I kind of sort of remember that, that we talk for a little while before we go into your special chamber and do the breathwork. But, you know, when we first got there, we just kind of like, sat and talked for an hour. And I think a lot of people who first go in for a session with you, they. They might even think when they first go in, they're like, when do we stop talking? When do I start all this cool stuff I've heard about, but we literally just talked and talked and talked. What's the purpose of that? Why do you sit people down and just chat with them for so long before you start into the breath work?

I think this is the foundation to me about building a safe space, building connection and establishing trust, permission to feel what you feel without judgment and honoring of whatever's happening. It's also an exploration. As I ask questions, it helps me understand where I can dissolve the layers of the answers that I'm receiving, and it helps me to then explore further with this issue. When I hear or feel or sense there's an imbalance, there's a wound, there's a disempowering pattern. I'm looking for the emotion. I'm looking for the energy. I'm looking for where there isn't clarity. I'm looking for where there's dissonance in the energetic field. So that is an opportunity for me to get to know the layers and the dimensions of the person that I'm going to be working with. But it's also for each of you to be heard, held, understood, and open the doorway for a compassionate present space that that foundation is going to be essential when we go into the healing room, because if there isn't trust and we get into the ceremony and you're about to have the breakthrough, if you don't trust me, if you don't feel safe, if you don't feel like there is permission to express anger, sadness, tears, rage, laughter, joy, if there isn't that container established, you won't have nearly as deep an experience as you could. And that's why shamangelic breathwork, I believe, is so different, because it's less focused on the specific breath technique. And that's fine, and that's great, but it's more about the container being safe and held. So that for both you and Angelo during that journey, there are times when both of you needed to express things.

Yeah.

And if that hadn't been established beforehand, then, you know, the fear, or what are people gonna think? Or it's not the right time, or I'm embarrassed. Like, if we don't get that out of the way first, you're not gonna have that. Those deep breakthroughs.

Yeah. And we certainly had some breakthroughs that we'll get into, but, you know, I'm trying. You asked questions. I think you asked us, for example, about our relationship with our kids, our relationship with our wives. You asked about the background of the company. It was almost like talk therapy in a way. That's what it felt like before we actually did the breath work.

Yep, that's exactly right. And just explaining kind of what's going to happen so that that kind of helps dissolve any of the nervousness or the fear or the uncertainty of, like, I've never done this before, or I don't know what I'm getting into. And it was my first time meeting Angelo. A lot of times when I'm doing breath work, it's. I'm meeting somebody for the very first time. And I want to establish that rapport so that there is, you know, that feminine nurturing, but there's also that masculine safety where both are required for you to really have a profound journey, I feel.

Yeah, you know, we did that and we talked. You know, that in and of itself was just fantastic to be able to open up and do so literally just, you know, sitting on your living room floor. But then we went into the breathwork room, like, this special room where you had essential oils. You had some different. Well, you had, like a. Like a special piece of art. I actually photographed it and put it on Instagram. I'll see if I can find the photo. If you go to BenGreenfulFitness,.com anahata2 I'll see if I can find that photo and link to it on Instagram. But what was that piece of art that you kind of created before you walked us through the breathwork?

This is an altar. I feel part of my training and part of what I feel is important is setting a sacred space, and part of that is holding and creating a sacred altar. What is the intention for the journey? What are the power objects that are holding this space for the ceremony? So there's going to be different guides. There's going to be different. We picked different stones on the altar, different intentions. In fact, you guys picked some and put some on the altar as well. So that there is a space holder of energy with intention and potency that makes it sacred instead of just going into some room where it's stark and there isn't anything holding a high vibration. So there's going to be sacred objects there. There's going to be crystals there, candles there. Probably there was Kuan Yin, the goddess of compassion, probably Ganesh, to remove obstacles. So there's gonna be some expression of some guidance and support. But there's also. We use the stones, different stones that had different words on there to anchor the intentions. And probably a heart in the middle or something like that, so that whatever you meet, whether it's pain, whether it's trauma, whether it's your higher self, whether it's a dream that you have, you're meeting it with compassion.

Yeah. Well, it was. It was cool. And I actually, I think I did find the. The photo. I was just scrolling through my phone here as you were talking, and I found it. So I'm gonna upload that and post a photo of this piece of art that you created because it had the stones. And I'm looking at the stones. One says dream, one says freedom. One says grow, courage, succeed, friends, healing, prosperity. And it was just kind of a cool symbolic way to kick off the session. And then you also use a lot of aromatherapy. Don't you? Like essential oils?

Yeah. And sprays, definitely. You know, our brain, that the olfactory senses really help us to trigger different feelings. And when there's a lot of emotional clearing, a lot of heaviness, a lot of, you know, anger, rage, grief that is needing to move. I'm going to use Palo Santo. I'm going to use sage. I'm going to use. I use a lot of sprays, especially when we're breathing. I don't want to use smoke because that's harder on the lungs. So I Don't want to sage. I clear the room before and I clear the room after, of course. But when you're breathing, I like to keep the lungs nice and clear. So I'll use an essential spray that has palo santo and lemongrass and sage. When we're kind of wanting, clearing out density, when we're opening the heart, when we want more spiritual expansion, I might use rose or something that is more of a higher frequency. I might use white angelica to kind of help connect to the higher states of consciousness. If there is some healing happening, I might use acceptance. So I have probably 30 different oils and five different sprays, depending on what you're going through, might be very different than what Angelo is going through. So I'm going to read the situation in the moment, and not only with essential oils, but with hands on, with a whisper, with an invitation, with some support, nurturing support. Yeah, you know, so how did that feel, you know, being how that was supported in the journey?

You know, I think that the aromatherapy piece, like the essential oils, a lot of people really think it's just, you know, something that smells nice. But, you know, I was actually reading a book, fantastic new book on essential oils. It's by Jody Cohen. It's called Essential Oils to Boost the Brain and Heal the Body. And she actually has some deep science in that book, particularly about. For example, it turns out that clove and lime, two essential oils I wasn't that familiar with with, they actually have a profound effect on your heart rate variability and the actual tone of your vagus nerve if they're applied kind of behind the earlobe on the mastoid bone. And I actually started to put a little bit in coconut oil and keep it right beside my bed and just apply a little bit of that to activate the parasympathetic nervous system before a night of sleep. Another one that you'll laugh about this, because I actually snort it literally out of one of those nasal sprays, peppermint and rosemary. I do that in the morning, and it's amazing. I mean, some mornings I'll get a bunch of green gunk coming out my nose afterwards if I'm congested or something like that. And that's wonderful for focus and for cognition and almost like a cup of coffee for your head. And then like you mentioned, there are others kind of like the lavenders and the bergamot, that kind of calm you down. But pairing the essential oils with breathwork, kind of like turkey and cranberries. And anybody who wants to try this, if you get like A good essential oil. Something really stimulating. I like before breath work, especially if it's kind of stimulatory breath work, similar to what we did with you, Anahata. I'll take the essential oil. And you don't need a nebulizer or an essential oil diffuser or anything like that. I'll just put a few drops in my hands, rub my hands together, bring my hands up to my nose, and take a. Like a few giant whiffs. And if you do that right before breath work, it's transformative in terms of amplifying the effects, especially if you're using kind of a more stimulative oil, in my opinion.

Yeah, I use oil. I use essential oils in so many different ways. What I use eucalyptus in the shower every morning. I just throw a couple drops and I just, you know, like, really deeply inhale, and it's that invigorating start. And there's a reason why lavender. We put in Epsom salts to put in the bath to help us calm down and relax. Plants are medicines, and they're fragrances are very, very powerful and can help us relax. They can help us calm down. They can help us connect to higher states of consciousness. They can open the heart. And so this is a whole other avenue of healing is absolutely through essential oils. I've been using them for 20 years, and there are some that you can absolutely ingest and, like, for cleansing. Frankincense is when you get a really high quality. I use young living oils, so I put that in water when I'm doing cleansing. And there's so many that I use for all kinds of different things. And then I make my own sprays if I want one that's more invigorating or clearing or for meditation or to clear a room, you know, before someone comes in or after.

Yeah, I have all sorts of blends that I. That I like. But I interviewed this guy named Dr. Nick Berry. He's like the wizard of essential oils, and he lives in Ashland. And they're. They're like, kind of like, picky. Like you got to pass a profile of mood state score before you're allowed to go in and be near the oils. And there's no, you know, electrical signals bouncing around. And they use all these. What do you call them, like the 3D geometry devices that allow for. For better energy frequencies in the. In the room. But he's got this one called cactivation that I've been using being down there in Arizona. You would like this one. And I. I think it was inspired actually by some kind of, like, San Pedro Wachuma type of cactus journey he had done. But it's. It's. It's frankincense, cedar, jasmine, mugwort, black pepper, and tangerine. That one is like my favorite right now. That's the one that's in my sauna. That's the one I'm using before breathwork. And so I kind of bounce back and forth between these different blends that I like. But you have the essential oils right there in the breathwork room. And I think that's kind of a, you know, that's something that I think might get underplayed. But I think it's crucial to the experience that this whole idea of stimulating the brain, you know, via the olfactory nerve, and then there's some very cool things that happen. And when you do that, you have a lot of instruments in there. You've got the music that you play through really good speakers, but then you've got a lot of music and instrumentation. Tell me about your thoughts on sound healing and pairing that with breath work.

You know, when the body feels vibration, it begins to shift things that are held in the cells and in the consciousness and in the emotional and the energetic body. So it's something that the brain, we just kind of override when we start to experience vibration through the body through an instrument like the shamanic drum right over the heart, where it just is vibrating the whole rib cage where the heart is held. And if we're doing some heart opening or you're having trouble forgiving or facing something, or you're wanting to open your heart and expand, playing the shamanic drum right over the heart is just phenomenal for vibrating the whole chest cavity. And the heart's right in the middle of that. And the heart is. Is so sensitive, it can feel it. So that's one that I used on both of you guys, I'm pretty sure. How did that feel to have that emanating right over your heart?

It felt amazing. And as a matter of fact, since I got back from Sedona and meeting with you, I actually got one of these sound healing mats. Have you ever seen these? It's called a bioacoustic mat.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I can plug any tracks from my phone into this mat, and I actually like to get a massage on, but I was thinking these would be amazing for your breathwork room. And you actually are just bombarded by this frequency playing through the mat. If you're laying on your back, it's getting your Spine and a lot of your deep tissue along the backside. And then if you flip over, same thing, you feel it through your heart, through your rib cage, and it's absolutely amazing. Again, kind of like the essential oils are like turkey and cranberry with breathwork, this would maybe be like peanut butter and jelly with breathwork, the whole idea of sound healing and vibratory therapy that goes along with the breathing. So, yeah, I think the mat's called like a vibroacoustic mat or vibroacoustic therapy mat or something like that. Yeah, I absolutely felt every time you'd come near me with a drum, what else did you have aside from a drum?

Well, of course, always a rattle. Because my shamanic rattle that's been with me I don't know how many years, decades, helps clear out density, and there's a lot of shaking off and letting go and, and expressing out. And so a shamanic rattle is really important for breaking up energy. The other thing that I probably did with both of you guys is a tuning fork right on the sternum, right on the heart chakra, which absolutely, again, vibrates that whole space of the heart. So tuning fork, crystal bowl, usually at the very end when we're in those higher states of consciousness. So crystal sound bowl, chimes. So there's all kinds of things I get to play with gong as well. And those just get woven in as I'm attending to each of you and whatever each of you is experiencing. And I think where the real magic comes in, of course, the sound, the breath and the essential oils, the sound instruments are all part of it. But I think the deepest part is reading what is happening with your energy body, your emotional body or energetic body, and then engaging really close with what's happening, where there might be some hands on healing, and especially just a whisper, a few words, a statement, an invitation, like, you're safe here or it's okay to feel that.

The tuning fork. By the way, if anybody wants to get into that science. I actually have a chapter on sound healing in the book, in my book Boundless. But there's actually a really good book on how these tuning forks work. How everything in your body vibrates at a specific frequency. Every, every cell period vibrates at a specific frequency or every molecule at a certain frequency. But the book's called Tuning the Human Biofield, and that was one of the first books I read. It's by Eileen McKusick, and it's really cool because it goes into the precise locations that you can place tuning forks to. Elicit some pretty cool effects. Perfect example, you could just get a tuning fork tuned to a and put it over kind of like the pineal gland area, kind of like right in between the eyebrows. And automatically you feel your mood shift kind of shift because you're actually eliciting an alpha brainwave production and a slight release of DMT from the pineal gland just from something as simple as that. And of course, anybody who's feeling down and just jacks up the music in your car, you realize, even if you don't know that you're doing it, you're sound healing using frequencies. It's not just about the lyrics of the music or the fact that it brings back a positive memory. You know, the way that music actually vibrates the body and sound waves and tuning forks actually vibrate the body can shift you into a certain state. And so then, you know, that's paired with the oils, with being really open after our discussion with the other sound instruments that you're playing. And then you're really ready to breathe yourself into a totally different state and.

You know, weaving that with you. Whereas, like within a breath work journey where there may be a group of people or like the two of you, where someone might be curled up in a ball, really weeping from something that they're grieving, that has not really been dealt with. And so there might be this really kind of Mother Mary holding that just allows the weeping or the grief to release. And with somebody else three feet away, it might be, you know, a lot of aggression that is in resentment and, you know, just frustration that has been oppressed for years or decades about situations that haven't been dealt with properly. And so in those situations, there may be turning around and supporting people with expression and releasing and opening the voice again and somebody else, you know, there was a time in the journey where you were just like celebrating and laughing and it was very ecstatic. And it's supporting that high vibration, like yippee. Yes. And so in the journey, for me, it's shape shifting a lot to support whatever is happening with each individual and invite it out. Because sometimes people are afraid to express or they're afraid to be joyful or they're afraid to cry. And a lot of times in the middle of the journey, it's about giving permission to express whatever is right under the surface, whatever it is, because it's medicine to just let it out. You know, one of the things that you had, you were coming 2 is that, wow, in our business we need more play. One of the things that I feel, and I want to hear from you that came out of that breath work because when we sat down in the living room and we were getting an understanding of why you're here, not only why are you here personally and what's going on in your personal life and same with Angelo, but also what is you're also here for Kion and for your business and where to take it to the next level. And one of the things that came out of that breath work is wow. Besides Kion being a place for nutrition and supplements and optimizing health, which I'm loving everything that I take from Kion, by the way. But you were also like, hey, we also want to be a place where community thrives and laughs and plays. We want to be a place where people can enjoy life. And this is one of the things that I see that you've really shifted in like this prioritizing family, prioritizing play, music, laughter and joy as also a success measure to business, to life, not just performance measures and victories and productivity. So can you tell me out of that breath work, like some of those visions that came through about a shifting quality of life?

I've had this, this nagging sense and almost a draw for the past couple of years. You know, we were talking about how I came to you all taped up like three or four years ago. Well, it wasn't too long after that that I realized that I had been going so Yang, so hardcore, so in a state of doing and achieving and very hardcore and masochistic for such a long period of time that I had really lost touch with a lot of my creative flowing almost like hopelessly romantic music and art loving side that I really was more tapped into, especially growing up. Like I was never a jock or like a hardcore athlete. Growing up I was like the kid who painted watercolor and played violin. And so, you know, like Gabor Mate says, a lot of times trauma is simply a long term disconnection from one's true self. And I feel like I spent so many years trying to prove to the world that I was a man or do all these things, you know, extremely ego feeding type of activities that I actually did wind up kind of disconnecting myself or at least shifting really far into the Yang, really far into the masculine energies, without really feeding or fueling, you know, a lot more of the yin, the feminine energies, the, the creative, the artistic, etc. And it's kind of interesting because during the, the breath work session, even though I'd kind of already come to that realization about myself personally. My kids needed a father who could initiate dance parties before dinner started around the dinner table, or who would just break out and play random songs on the guitar or cut a workout short to go and lay under the stars instead. In Stargaze, I hadn't really thought about that from a business standpoint, like, Key on the company, which I started when I was still kind of in an athlete go, go, go do compete mode. You know, Kion was a really kind of, like, edgy, fitness, athletic, you know, we equip you to go crush the world type of company and, you know, one. One breakthrough that actually Angelo and I had. And it was fortunate because we had, like, three days after the breathwork session to just hike and hike and get blisters and talk about, you know, everything that we wanted Kion to become and that we want Keon to become. You know, we. We're really shifting, and a lot of people will see this. I don't know when this podcast comes out, but, like, our branding, our logo, our messaging, our site, everything, we're really starting to branch out from, like, athleticism and working out. And what we want to do is equip people to have energy just for life, right? Like, not just. Not just the exercisers, but, you know, the musicians and the artists and the dancers and the lovemakers, you know, everyone who just wants amazing, flowing energy that's. We want to be part of our tribe, right? Like, we want the people who take care of their bodies and, you know, biohack and work out and have their schedules, but we also want the people who will just, like, you know, skip sleep and go stargaze or rave or stay up late and dance at a concert or skip a workout and go play in a park like this. You know, I think even I, like, sat up at one point during the breathwork session, because I think I sat up a few times. Hopefully I didn't scare you. And I would just, like, start shouting. Shouting ideas, you know, about how we are. The infectious and contagious energy that drives you to be playful and energetic and dance and make music and breathe and live life fully as human. Human beings, not human doings. And even our list of ambassadors and influencers who we decided we really want to target after that session. We decided, why just go after the athletes, the marathoners, the cyclists, the triathletes, the crossfitters. The people who we want as kind of like our dream team at Kion are the musicians, the artists, the dancers, the lovers, and really. And people will see this in our Rebranding, too, which was kind of sparked as a part of our trip to Sedona. They'll see a really, really cool change in the feel of our company based on a big part of that idea that we really want to embrace the feminine and kind of like the yin and the flow and the creativity and the art. And that was a big breakthrough for us professionally, which is so funny because I've been having that same breakthrough for the past few years personally. But I never really realized that I'd kind of left the business behind and kept that a little bit more kind of like hardcore. And so that was one of the big breakthroughs. To be honest with you.

I love hearing that because I think when we met four years ago, all of those injuries were on the right side, the masculine side. And this was part of our session last time. Last time, it was a shamangelic healing journey where we. We kind of do like that connection, communication and discovery, exploration. And there was a lot of pushing and force at that time. And we talked about, how's that working for you? I remember asking that question, like, how's that working for you? You just kind of looked at me. And after that, we were talking about, well, what is the long game so that you can actually have this need and this foot working so that you can play with your twins, you know, that you can run around and play, and that your knee or your foot is, you know, not mush. We talked about how so many professional athletes at 35, their body, they can't even go outside, they can't hike and can't play anymore because their knees just blown out. It's gone. And we were talking about the long game and not the short game. That's a different success measure, longevity, and not just short term performance. It's a different success measure. Am I having fun? Am I making my relationships meaningful? Am I fully present for the people that I love in my life? And it feels like there is a deeper connection in your marriage and in your relationship with your boys and also with Angelo as a business partner, that it's not just, okay, what's our stats? What's our numbers for? But, hey, bro, how are you doing? And I got to see a side of you that is optimizing different and prioritizing different success measures and more balance in the feminine and the masculine, which is what we originally talked about four years ago. And I just want to acknowledge how far you've come with that. And I remember we had a conversation with them where you're like, hey, I Might lose people, my hardcore pain cave people. And I said, yes, but you're gonna gain people a different audience. And you went out, you know, you went out afterwards and just kind of had a real transparent, like, Facebook Live, I think.

Like, wow, I remember that. Out in the hill. Out in the hills behind your house. I remember that. And this wasn't the last. This was like, the one that I went to solo three or four years ago when I just realized, you know, like, how. I guess stuck in this hypnotic rhythm or this groove of, like, exercise and hardcore working out and, you know, training to eat, needing to train and, you know, defining myself by my body and my personal and physical achievements and how much of that that I really wanted and desired deep down inside to let go. And I felt a lot of that, you know, particularly through those injuries. Speaking to me the first time that I worked with you and then this last time with Angelo, we kind of talked about talking beforehand, and the aromatherapy and the music and the sound healing and the whole setting and the art beforehand, but dropping into what I would literally define kind of like I alluded to early on in our discussion on a Hatha, this altered state of consciousness, this merging of the left and right hemispheres of the brain, literally breathing off carbon dioxide to a point where you're almost hyperventilating and entering this state where you change the default mode network of the brain. Right. The same as would be associated with altered states of consciousness, like meditation or psychedelic substances or sleep, like tapping into that same part of the brain while laying there and then beginning to. I mean, we were just like. We were spitting stuff right and left. And I remember you were sitting behind us because it seemed. How long were we there on our back? Backs just laid flat on our backs? About an hour or so.

Oh, an hour and 15 minutes at least.

Okay. Yeah. And you're kind of like, shouting orders isn't the right word, but you're kind of like choreographing us through to the music and to the aromatherapy and to your whispers in our ears and basically walking us through this breath work that almost is driving us deeper and deeper into this. Not a hallucinogenic state, but almost like this altered state of consciousness and stuff just started to flow. Like, I remember I was at one point, I was shouting. At one point, I was screaming. At one point, I was crying. At one point, Angelo and I were holding hands, which I think you took a photo of, and it was really cool. And I don't think I've ever asked you this but have you ever used plant medicines and psychedelics on a Hata and compared it to the type of breathwork that you do? What's your take on that whole piece?

Thank you for asking that. Yeah, I was drawn a long time ago. Early on in my journey. There was lots of opportunities and lots of invitations to take all kinds of different plants, medicines. And I think one of the things, you know, I did a podcast a while back. I'll link it in my show notes of, like, ayahuasca medicine or poison. And I think with any psychedelic or breathwork or, you know, ice cream or wine, it can be a medicine or can be a poison. It depends on a lot of factors. Are you ready? Is it the right thing to meet the need that you're going through? Is it the right location? Is it the right facilitator? Is it the right dosage? Is it for the right intention? Is it the right space? You know, so I think the caveat there is some things are a medicine and some things are a poison, depending on when and how you orient to it. So for many years, I was not getting a yes, even though there were lots of opportunities, because I'm like, not with that. Not with that facilitator, not at this time, not with those people, not in this environment. Because my shamanic training, I was really attuned to energy and vibration and the container being clear. And I had been working so hard, Ben, to clear out a lot of the density and open up channels for higher consciousness. I was a lot more protective about my consciousness and my energy and my spiritual field than I was before. Because I know that in these ceremonies you can absolutely take on. I know that you're talking about the physiological distortions in the brain, but you can also take on entities and, like, there's. There's some, like, energetic interdimensional stuff that's not clean that you didn't start with. And it's like, you know what? You know, I'm here to clean out stuff, not take on more density. So I am very, very discerning about who, when, why, and where I open my field to anything, down to who I would receive a massage from. You know, I'm very, like, very particular. And if I'm going to leave my body in an altered state, you better be damn sure I'm going to make sure that the environment is clear, that I trust that practitioner, that they know what they're doing. So for many years, I did not. I did not. It wasn't time. I didn't get a yes. And even if I got a yes of like, this plant is calling me, I was getting a no about other important things like location and facilitator. But in 2005, I think it was 2005, went down to Peru and I'm like, okay, I'm gonna go to where the vine is grown. I'm not gonna ask her to come to me. I'm going to go to her. And I went into the jungle and I sought out a very particular, well known, well established ayahuascaro. And I did a number of journeys down in the jungle. And I trusted the man, you know, I trusted this facilitator so that I could absolutely surrender. And I think what ayahuasca shows you things, but it might not be something that you're ready to see. So sometimes we open that door for the wrong reason, and we might get shown something that we're not actually ready or equipped to integrate. And so sometimes we get information or we get a vibration or we get an insight that we can't actually assimilate. And so it creates a little fissure or a little distortion there. And other times, like things that you couldn't see, all of a sudden, ayahuasca will be like, hey, let me show this to you. Like, wow, I didn't see it like that before, or I didn't understand what was really happening. And so I have found that, that my experiences were amazing. When I sat with the vine in the jungle by myself. Before I left, I went into meditation and I just. I put my hand on the vine and I said, you know, grandmother, ayahuasca, you know, what, what do you want me to know? She goes, you don't need to ingest me again. Which I was surprised to hear from her. She's like, I'm already in your consciousness. If you have any questions, just ask me.

Me. So you don't need to go on your 40th Ayahuasca retreat. Keep searching and searching like so many people. That's the thing. And I think a lot of people don't realize this is, you know, it's like sometimes you take an antibiotic to get rid of an infection, and that doesn't mean you're on it for the rest of your life. You know, you worked with it. Not necessarily that ayahuasca is the equivalent of an antibiotic, but, you know, with, with drugs or substances or plants like this. They aren't something that you use for life. Like, for example, oil of oregano, potent and very effective antifungal. But it's not something I take year round. I take it if I feel that I've got some kind of a candida or yeast issue going on, or I've been exposed to some type of illness. But it's not something that you use day in and day out or necessarily keep coming back to. And that might not be the best example. But this idea that plant medicine can almost become a crap crutch, a habit, or even an escape because you are in an altered state. And it's very easy to just forget life, especially with some of these that are a little less, I guess, rip you wide open and purge. Like ayahuasca. A lot of people just do psilocybin or LSD or something that might be potentially more pleasant. And it can be an escape. But I think in a different way than breathwork because somebody could say, well, breath work and achieving an altered state via breathwork is the same thing. Maybe you're escaping, maybe you're overusing it when you don't need it. But, but I think for me there's something remarkably different about achieving an altered state of consciousness by doing the hard work, right? By actually taking the path to the top of the mountain versus like popping a pill and having a helicopter drop you off at the top of the mountain. Like, it's. There's something that feels different afterwards, there's something that feels cleaner, there's something that feels more character building about it. And it compared to the use of plant medicine or psychedelics, which I don't feel called to very much at all. Anytime someone says, hey, let's do a breathwork session, I'm like, yeah, in, let's do it. And so me, and I don't know if I told you this, Anahata, both my twin boys joined me with this. We usually are in a breathwork session at least a couple of times a week now, typically 20, up to 60 minutes in length. And for us it's like an exercise routine or having dinner or any other part of our day that might be woven into our day or woven into our week. Like, I think it's, it's just foundational, especially for young people to have this. You know, I feel like breath work and learning breath work and, and developing an intimate relationship with how to tweak your physiology using your own oxygen and carbon dioxide. It's a skill that I think every human being should know. And, you know, I'm shocked. I think you should know how to use your lungs the same way you should know how to use your Freaking genitals, right? Like, it's like they're there for a reason, right?

Well, yeah, there's a lot, there's a lot to unpack here. And our breath is, you know, all the yogis in, you know, East India, this is pranayama has been around for thousands of years. And so many different cultures understand and ancient traditions understand the power of breath for courage, the power of breath for calmness, for alertness, for relaxation. There's so many different ways that we can use our own chemistry, our own pharmacy based on how we adjust our intake of oxygen, the pace, whether we hold it in, hold it out. There's so many, you know, wonderful videos now. There's so many different ways in which breath can help us, you know, reach deeper states of meditation. Shamangelic breathwork kind of clears out a lot of density and then also opens to higher consciousness. I love that it's efficient and it's clean. And usually you're not really shown something that you're not ready to integrate. And so I think it's important, you know, like if you see a vision or it's time to deal with something from your past, it's probably because you have the right support, you have the right container and it's what's keeping you from moving forward. It's time to go deal with that trauma or that insecurity or the I gave my power away to get this person's validation and kind of unravel those things at a core level so that you can reclaim your wholeness, your power, your truth and your freedom. Just like you said, hey, a lot of your Yang training and you know, go, go, go was, was coming from a place of needing to prove. And there's different ways where we can go after and be the best version of ourselves from a place of curiosity, from a place of I want to be my best self. And there's also some of those kind of more unhealthy motivations of I need to prove myself or I want to be better than that person or this is how I achieve attention, love and worth. And so those are the kinds of things that with breathwork and different healing modalities and different therapies that we're wanting to unravel and dissolve the distortions that are keeping you from being your fullest expression and breathwork, I think is one of those quite efficient ways of doing that. You know, one of the other side effects that I've noticed with too much, you know, too many psychedelics or too many mind altering experiences where you're taking something to alter your consciousness rather than your own breath and your own emotions and your own energy or spiritual connection to the divine. When I was sitting with the vine that last day, she said two things. One, you don't need to ingest me anymore. And two, but our work isn't done, which I didn't get at the time. But then what has happened since then, which was, I don't know how many years ago, almost 18 years ago, something like that is that Ayahuasca keeps sending me all of these people that have had traumatic experiences. I get the people that knock on my door that haven't slept for two weeks, that have now are dealing with entities. And I know this sounds really far out and really woo woo and really like, is she for real?

Yeah, I mean, you know, an evangelical Christian might describe as someone who's demon possessed. And whether it's that or something else, there's some pretty profound. Either neurotransmitter shifts or I do have a friend who got super sick and was actually working with a shaman who was out to get her, so to speak. And she actually had to almost go into a spiritual shaman battle between that shaman and the other shaman, a battle to kind of like, like rip the. Almost like the, I guess like a curse or a spell that one shaman had put over her and she was super sick. And like this stuff happens. Like it, like it's like we're talking about full on different spiritual dimensions that I think a lot of people underestimate. Like this is not just tweaking chemicals in the brain. Like you're playing with some pretty hefty spiritual dimensions here, right?

And it's different than if you have too much tequila and your liver's paying the price, right? It's very, it's very different when you are shifting your brain chemistry and you're opening up your, your gateways to fourth and fifth dimensions. And there isn't a clear boundary, there isn't discernment about what you let in or what you let out. And so to me, interdimensional work needs incredible training. That's why I spent so many years training and doing this kind of work, so that I can, can help people kind of disseminate, you know, kind of distract, like extract the parts of them that are. That parts that are interwoven with somebody else's energy, whether that was from a trauma in childhood or whether that is from an entity or there's. There's a lot of distortion around psychedelics that unfortunately people that are not in integrity are leading ceremonies that are taking advantage of people during ceremonies, or they're taking extorting finance finances so that they stay there and do more ceremonies. And. And you know, in my meditations at different times with Ayahuasca, I'm like, why do you keep sending me people like this? She goes, because you're going to clean it. You're going to clean it up. And also I want you to talk about it. Like, do I really want to talk about this? No. Do I? But it's part of my ethical agreement with Ayahuasca is just is to bring awareness that it's not always the best effort. It can be. I have experienced it, its effects. I want to be very clear. It absolutely can be in the medicine with the right person, in the right container for the right reason, in the right dosage.

And anybody who just wants to kind of like wrap their heads around the physiological side, I mean, just google something like serotonin syndrome and just see what kind of effects you can have when you're playing with chemicals to that extent versus, say, doing something a little bit more natural via protocol, such as breathwork work. There was one question I wanted to ask you because when we're talking about plant medicine and psychedelics, in many cases you do a dieta or a special protocol of fasting or plants, or even avoiding certain forms of meats or heavy foods or spicy foods or stimulants for several days or up to a week prior. I've personally found that I have very, very good breathwork sessions if I do them fasted. And there are even books like the Atomic Power of Fasting or there's one by John Piper that I just got that I didn't read yet, but it's called Hunger for God about pairing fasting with meditation. Arguably, you could also say the same thing about pairing fasting with prayer and breath work, or fasting with meditation and breath work. But I always feel like I get the most out of a breathwork session, waking up and doing it in the morning, like in my sauna in a fasted overnight state, or at least after a day where I haven't been eating heavy amounts of meat, like a few vegetable juices, things like that. Have you kind of experienced the same thing where there's almost like this interplay between food and breathwork that can either detract or add to the experience?

Absolutely. And that's why I tell people, don't eat a big meal before. It's better to eat light. Not everybody is accustomed to fasting But I feel that any spiritual practice, when there's less in the blood, that's really what we're talking about here. Because when you're talking about big meat particles and a lot of dense food in the blood, when you're hyper oxygenating the blood, which is what you're doing with breath work, it's one of many things that you're doing. It can flow through the body more easily if you haven't, if it's not filled with a lot of food particles. And so the cleaner, the more liquid, the more fluid that your blood is. Then when you hyper oxygenate it, it really has a profound physiological cleansing benefit. That's like the minimum is you're getting a physiology detox with all that oxygen moving through the blood, which is then moving through all of the organs, moving through the liver, that has such profound effects, just physiologically cleansing. But when we're also doing that in the brain, we're hyper oxygenating the brain. And so we're clearing out toxins and heavy metals. We're clearing out also the calcifications that are in the sixth and seventh chakras, the pineal and the pituitary glands, because those get calcified the more thin your blood is and the more you can oxygenate it. And it actually opens those channels for higher consciousness. This why meditation and fasting goes so well together. And my biggest profound epiphanies have happened when I have been fasting and meditating. Because there is literally nothing between you and consciousness. That's where the crown opens. The crown chakra opens.

I think if you look at it from a physiological standpoint, because that's how I started at University of Idaho with physiology and biomechanics. When you look at this type of breath work, by over breathing, you're initiating basically metabolic alkalosis, or what's also known as respiratory alkalosis, where you are removing more carbon dioxide than usual and essentially alkalizing the body. And so arguably, by avoiding foods that would be acidic, like coffee or dairy or alcohol or large amounts of red meat, and eating alkalizing foods, which are mostly fruits and vegetables, then you would increase your ability to more rapidly, steadily shift into an alkalized or alkalosis like state by doing so. And really the kidneys do a pretty good job maintaining kind of like a balance and acidity and alkalinity. Yet I'm just saying, subjectively, I get more out of breathwork when I actually pay attention to the diet that I pair with the breath.

You know, that's super Important and the benefits that you get from that. The other thing that's the preparation is, you know, eating light and having a clear intention. And I think the biggest, you know, the most powerful thing around impactful breath work is the integration process. Like, what are you doing with the epiphanies that you received during your ceremony or during your, you know, breathing meditation or whatever it is like the wake up calls, the new truth that you received, what does that change? Has that changed the way you look at yourself in the mirror? How does that change what motivates you during the day? How does that change what is important to you, what you value, how you treat another person, how you respond to stress, and how you respond to when you're being challenged or there is someone attacking or judging? How does that shift the way that you will interact with life and go after your dreams? How does it shift your fear threshold? You know, and I think that that's the biggest part of really getting the most out of your breath work is spending deep days and integration, and that's not throwing another ceremony right on top of it. Whether it's a plant medicine or a breathwork ceremony. It's like, wow, I just opened my states of consciousness. I just released a whole hell of a lot of density. What just shifted and what does that change in my life going forward? Without those questions, I don't think it lands deeply. That's why after every breath work, I always ask, like, what does this change? What you just. What did you just get? What truth did you just realize? What did you just let go of? So there's that journaling exercise of like, what are you, what did you just receive? What just shifted? Like, let's just name it. Let's. Let's put a date on it. Let's clarify that. But also, what does that mean going forward? What does that shift? Because that's the difference between having a wake up call and actually deeply having a shift in your embodiment.

Yeah, yeah, I fully agree. And I was very fortunate that, you know, Angela and I, I kind of did the breathwork session early on in our trips. We had three full days of hiking and integration and talking afterwards. And fortunately, also, I think you said you don't do this often, but you were like back there behind us, like, jotting notes that you gave us that were very helpful because obviously we were laid flat in our backs. And I would say if the music hadn't been kind of like, so, not overwhelming, but enveloping and loud, I probably would have had a digital record recorder and literally recorded what I was saying during the session. And I actually might do that for our next session is just bring like a digital recorder in and record what I say, which I'll sometimes do. If I do a plant medicine ceremony, for example, I just have a zoom and I'll flip it on and then having access to that afterwards. I think that helps too with the whole implementation piece. Just having recorded what you said or enabling yourself to record or have a nice scribe like you handy on a hotel to keep track of things. Because I think that's super helpful as part of the integration as well. That or just getting down as soon as possible afterwards and writing down everything that you found. I think that's key because otherwise it's just kind of like in one ear out the other to a certain extent. Even if it's super important, you just forget.

Sometimes I recommend having people come up with a mantra like, okay, this changed. So whether it's play, love, laugh, whatever, those are some of the things that came out of really valuing family and play and connection. And so what is a new guiding life statement that is something that can be repeated daily and visited daily. So a new reframed mantra or daily affirmation is what I recommend for people as well, so that they can revisit that and integrate it. I just want to ask you another quick question. And that is like, when you have been making this shift from being a human doing to being a human being and shifting and alchemizing your yin and your yang energies and integrating them more, what is a benefit benefit that you're experiencing and what is something you had to let go of to get that benefit?

Biggest benefit that comes to mind is deeper connection with my wife and my children, who are all. Well, if you look at their enneagram profile, they're peacemakers. They're all type B. They're all super artistic, they're all super creative. You know, they were kind of like stuck for so long with general that. And for me to just be able to hang out with them and not only meditate and pray and do gratitude practice, which has been something we've done for a long time now. But there's just, you know, there's more dance parties, there's more just randomly playing music and beating drums and going outside in the middle of the workday and just kind of flowing a lot more than functioning. I think that's the biggest thing is connectivity to family. And to allow for that, some of it had to come down to me realizing I didn't have to adhere to a rigid schedule. I didn't have to have zero inbox by the time dinner rolled around. I didn't have to get X number of minutes of working out in because frankly, even though my brain sometimes tries to make me think I am, I'm not a professional athlete anymore or someone who identifies themselves with towing the starting line of a race and just changing some of those things from a prioritization standpoint and then just being okay with flowing and with almost like a little bit more of a type B approach to certain elements of life. Like, don't get me wrong, you need, in order to maintain some semblance of structure and predictability and control, which I sometimes think gets vilified too much, you have to have some amount of scheduling in order and calendaring and things like that in your life. But. But I was way too far pushed in that direction and not far enough in the flowing direction. So I would say that's the biggest thing.

I think that there's medicine and alchemy to finding the balance between structure and freedom and work and play and being and doing. And I'm also hearing that you had to shift your value from winning to a different value from being at the starting line and also having to face the guilt of putting in less time or stepping away from the office when things aren't done. And like, facing the. My value, my worth is not associated with my productivity today. It doesn't mean I don't get things done. It doesn't mean you're just on the couch, Netflix and smoking pot all day. But it's. But there is different. There's a way of stepping back and not feeling guilty about, oh, I didn't. I didn't finish my workout because I was outside with a guitar under the stars with the boys. My sweetie, you know.

Exactly. Exactly. Speaking of which, I have. I have a joint and the whole lineup of Family Guy from last year waiting for me on Netflix for as soon as we finish. So we get. We got to wrap this thing up so I can get on to my next party. But anyways, I did have a couple of things that I wanted to mention as we get close to having to end here, because I actually do have somebody I gotta hop on the phone with here in about 10 minutes. Speaking of calendaring. But first of all, I know that you from my audience are giving, like, a free guided visualization with your online feminine and masculine balancing course. And, you know, feminine and masculine balancing is certainly something that I do quite a bit of. So I see the value in that. And I'm going to link to that in the show notes. It's just like a free download that you guys can access from Anahata's website that she was kind enough to put together for us. And that's all going to be in the show notes@bengreenfieldfitness.com Anahata 2 Anahata. The number 2 Anahata. For people who would want to actually come to Sedona and work with you, what's the best way for them to get in touch with you or to set up a session or schedule a session similar to what me and Angela did?

Shamangelichealing Calm. There's an inquiry, you know, there's an inquiry form there where you can say, hey, here's what I'm going through. I want to bring my family or my partner and I or I'm coming by myself or I want to attend a retreat or do online coaching, whatever it is. So shamangelichealing.com and because of the whole Covid thing, there's a lot more virtual. We're doing virtual breath work, we're doing virtual workshops and there's going to be some virtual retreats coming up this year. So if you can't get to Sedona for whatever reason, then there's also online opportunities. And yeah, then there's the shamangelic Healing podcast as well, which happy to have you on. And, and for those people that are listening from my end, where can everybody find you, Ben? And first of all, I highly recommend everybody grab your boundless book because that, I mean, like just the title, Optimize, you know, you know, upgrade brain, Optimize body, defy aging. And I think everybody can benefit. There's a lot of juicy stuff in there. So. So for your fans that haven't yet picked up that book, go get it. And also for my listeners, go get it. We'll have a link to where you can get that book, but where can everybody find you? And first of all, I'm going to put a link to Kion for sure because I love your products and one of the things that I know about you is that you're going to make sure that it's clean, it is high quality, it's going to be the best, best of everything and the best formulation because you would have nothing less for, for your body and you wouldn't want anything less.

Don't drink the coffee before your breath work session. But the fish oil, the fish oil could come in handy. That that's clean alkalizing thin out your blood a little bit. But, yeah, first of all, your checks in the mail. Thanks for the shameless plug. And yeah, I'm. I'm@BenGreenfieldFitness.com like, my podcast is called the Ben Greenfield show, so it's far less narcissistically titled than an Hota Shamajelic healing podcast and. Or far more narcissistically titled, I should say. And then, yeah, that's. You can find me book. You can find anywhere where books are sold, and that one's called Boundless. And then I'll put all the show notes for everything that you and I talked about. Anahata@bengreedelfitness.com Anahata2 and then the very last thing is I might see you soon because. Because my wife and I always do quarterly retreats just to get away and hang out with each other and plan out our lives and make nefarious plans for our children's lives. And we are thinking about actually kind of getting out of rainy Spokane in late February and coming down to Sedona. And if we do, we'll totally drop in for a breathwork session.

Oh, absolutely. And you know what? I'll take you to some really cool hidden spots in Sedona. Like, really sacred, sacred spots. So we'll get out on the land and feel those vortexes and. My pleasure, my honor. And you. And one of the things we do have in common is that we both have twins. Yours are younger, you have boys, and I have a boy and a girl. But that's something that we share in common and be an honor to support other parents of twins. So, Ben, thank you for what you do in this world. You're a prolific author, you're a wonderful father, a devoted husband, your products, your podcast. You're really just bringing such fabulous, valuable information. I'm grateful for everything that you're doing, and I don't know how you find the time. And that is coming from structure. You are very disciplined, and you get results. And I'm really impressed with who you're evolving into as well, because that's. You're now sharing with other professional athletes and CEOs that there's another way to live. And I love that. I love that. And your sons are having that role model that life is not just all about work and winning.

Yep. And they're not in prison yet. Kind of like you're. I'm assuming your twins aren't.

No, they're doing what they love, doing what they love. In fact, they're in Oregon not far from you. They're there out there playing and, you know, snowboarding and they're, they're like stand up, paddle boarding in the lakes and rivers there and like enjoying life outside and with people that they love.

So amazing.

Thank you, Ben. I appreciate it and looking forward to seeing you very soon and for many years to come.

All right, Anahata, we'll catch you on the flip side in Sedona. And again, folks, show notes@bengreenfulfitness.com anahata a n a h a t a 2 anahata, the number 2. And until next time, I'm Ben Greenfield and Anahata Ananda signing out from BenGreenfieldFitness.com have an amazing week. Well, thanks for listening to today's show. You can grab all the show notes, the resources, pretty much everything that I mentioned over@BenGreenfieldFitness.com along with plenty of other goodies from me, including the highly helpful Ben Recommends page, which is a list of pretty much everything that I've ever recommended for hormones, sleep digestion, fat loss, performance, and plenty more. Please also know that all the links, all the promo codes that I mentioned during this and every episode help to make this podcast happen and to generate income that enables me to keep bringing you this content every single week. So when you listen in, be sure to use the links in the show notes, use the promo codes that I generate because that helps to float this thing and keep it coming to you each and every week.

Sa.