Ben and Jessa Greenfield Go On A Walk & Talk About Education, Legacy, Finances, Daily Habits & More (Boundless Parenting Book Series).

My name is Ben Greenfield, and on this episode of the Ben Greenfield Life.

Podcast, we live in a very dopaminergic era. You know, whether it's social media or food or sexual sensations. I've been thinking about this term. I was even thinking about writing a book by this title called Viceless. Having this mentality that you want to not be attached to anything in life. Viceless. Like, I think that that's something I really want to make sure that, you know, the Greenfield family is known for is we don't have any dependency on dopamine and don't tend to be addict to, you know, substances and activities.

Faith, family, fitness, health, performance, nutrition, longevity, ancestral living, biohacking, and a whole lot more. Welcome to the show.

Hey, what's up? It's Ben Greenfield. I thought you would find this episode kind of interesting. My wife and I were recently sent a lot of questions from, actually, a financial advisor that we were working with. They were asking us everything about our financial philosophy, spirit of scarcity versus a spirit of abundance, and how we've actually built wealth over the years based on that particular philosophy. Questions about education, formal versus untraditional education, money and finance passed on to future generations, creating mindsets for perseverance and resilience, including daily habits and daily routines and some of our best habits to form a healthy life. Some of the most meaningful choices and decisions we've made, our ideas and philosophies passed on to us by our parents, our thoughts about inflation, investments, taxes, legacy, and a whole lot more. So if you go to BenGreenfieldLife.com BenGateSalegacy that's BenGreenfieldLife.com BengEdgeGacy I'll put the show notes over there and link to anything that comes up during this episode. And of course, as usual, if you have comments, questions or feedback, you can leave them over there. BenGreenfieldLife.com BenGessaLegacy and I hope you enjoy today's show.

This is going to be the responses for Ben and Jessica Greenfield for some of the modifications that are being made to our trust. And we're on a walk right now, so we're just going to kind of start spitballing on this as we go. We'll apologize in advance for any mistakes or fumblings, but we'll do the best we can. So, first of all, do you have a fully articulated financial philosophy that you can share in written form? And obviously, for the purposes of this project, this would be audio form. And I'll go ahead and kick things Off, I suppose. So. I grew up, I would say, in a family where saving was emphasized. We weren't a wealthy family, although my father did have wealthy parents. We weren't necessarily wealthy. He was a firefighter. My mom was a stay at home mom who did some hairstyling on the side. We were homeschooled. We had a little bit of money, but not a lot. We did live in a nice home that my father's parents bought for him, but, you know, we pinch pennies a lot. I think I grew up with the real spirit of scarcity. Even me personally, I was a real saver. Saved and chalked away a lot of money. Always, you know, cut corners when it came to spending. I still will shop for that can of sardines. It's like 50 cents cheaper than the other can. I've just always been a real saver, but I'm naming that because I don't want the Greenfield family to be a family that operates with the spirit of scarcity. I want us to operate with a spirit of abundance. Jess and I are both really good stewards of our finances. We love to shop for deals. We're not materialistic. We don't like to own a lot of nice things, nice clothes. We don't really care what other people think of us or judge us. If there's one thing we probably spend a little bit of extra money on, it would be our home and our health. You know, occasionally nice things here and there as far as, like, maybe art or good food. But we really. We're not materialistic at all. Wouldn't you say, babe?

I mean, yeah, not for the most part. I mean, yeah, we do have things, though.

Yeah. Even me. Like, a lot of my toys, I wouldn't even have if they hadn't been given to me, you know, I wouldn't have bought them of my own volition. And so that's not because we want our family to operate in a spirit of scarcity. We just want to be good financial stewards so that the money that we could have been spending, you know, if I choose uberx instead of uber black car, that's like 60 extra bucks I could use to help somebody, right? Or to save or to invest back in the business. So I guess our overall financial philosophy would be operating with a spirit of abundance and a spirit of blessing others and also taking care of our own bodies and health and legacy. But basically, at the same time, we really are very cognizant of just about every penny. You know, with that whole philosophy that, you know, if you watch the pennies, the dollars will take care of themselves. And so, I don't know. I mean, that is just spitballing. Those are the main things come to mind for me. How about you, babe?

I think that's it for the most part. Yeah. Just having like a spirit of generosity, I think is. I think we do that to a point now, but I'd like to be more generous.

Yeah.

With what we have.

Yeah. And I mean, honestly, like, you know, for example, I just told my son's curriculum coordinator that I really want a block for them this year where they learn about what a non profit is, how it's different than a regular business, how they can operate their own business as a non profit, with that culminating in them setting up their own nonprofit or their own charity so that when they're 14 years old, they can already be giving disbursements from their business in a non profit. I did the same thing with my company. Kion and Ben Greenfield, Life for World Vision. You know, I don't come from a family that ever had a charity that ever gave money away, aside from just like tithing. And I really want us to be known as a family who basically takes the money that we have, is able to buy the things that we need to live a decent life, and then everything else just goes out and either helps other people or builds our legacy, meaning equips our children to be able to better help people. So I think that kind of wraps it up. What do you think, babe? All right. What do you want future generations to know about money and finance? So I grew up, like, with the mentality, again, like, you know, have a lot of money in the silo when you die, you know, put a lot in the storehouses for a rainy day. I'm a real prepper and I certainly do have a real, real appreciation for. And I really value preparation, whether that's guns, you know, gold, silver, bitcoin, Campbell soup cans, meat in the freezer, you name it. But a, I really don't want my kids to grow up having accumulated a bunch of wealth and then just dying sitting on top of that wealth. I want them to know that money is just a tool for impact. It's a tool for creating value in people's lives, even their own business and my own business. You know, our number one metric is lives touched and not money made. And so, you know, the main thing I want my children to know, money and finance. At the end of the day, the reason that we're wise stewards, the reason we understand Our books. The reason we understand finance, the reason we look into things like insurance and trusts and the type of discussions that we're having right now as a part of this audio is so that they can best equip themselves, their families and their bank account to help other people. And gosh, I mean, like, that's. That's what I would love for the Greenfield mentality to be is like, basically, how do we take our skill set and be super successful and make a whole bunch of money, but unlike many people, not take that money and buy a Tesla or the $100 pair of jeans, but instead buy a Prius and some jogging pants and then go help people.

Yeah. And I think, like, when you said being successful, I mean, when you're successful, you're also able to employ families and people and. And provide source of income for others.

Yeah. Create jobs.

Exactly. So I was like, it's not just about just being successful and financially free. You're also opening up doors to help other families.

Yeah. And something to really highlight. And this is. I don't know if this is a question either, because I really look forward, but at my heart, I'm not an entrepreneur. I'm an artist. I'm a creative. I'm a storyteller. Like, I tell people if I could really, like, snap my fingers and just do what, like my fallback would be if I could just, like wake up in the morning, I would write songs and make music and like, learn to play new musical instruments and write fiction and probably do a little bit more drawing. Right. Like, that's the way I'm wired. I don't really like to build businesses, even though I have like this entrepreneurial bug. My entrepreneurial bug is kind of interesting. Like, I don't fancy myself as a suit wearing CEO. I fancy myself as like this artist, creative storyteller who just does some wild and interesting things and, you know, and almost like this, like, not so narcissistic, but like a total, like, you know, D list celebrity who people follow. Which I kind of get a kick out of, like building my name and my brand and my following. But ultimately I don't see the Greenfield family as much as like a business mogul family, as much as like an artistic, creative family. Would you agree, babe?

Yes.

Yeah. So, all right, so anyways, the formal education. How do we feel about formal education? Well, I mean, how much time you got? But basically I think that it is an outdated model that is really well designed for creating good factory workers and people who can engage in things like rote memorization of facts and put square pegs and square holes and round pegs and round holes, but does not produce creative, free thinking, resilient young individuals who are going to thrive in an era where creativity and being able to adapt to problems on the fly and solve them creatively is far more important than the type of things that artificial intelligence and automation can now do. And so I think that when you mix that with everything from peer pressure to learning at the same pace as everybody else in the classroom, to a lot of the failures of the modern schooling system, even just like the lack of God Christianity in the public schooling system, I look at the unschooling that we do, which is essentially experiential based education, based on paying attention to the passions and interests of a young person and then surrounding them with as many tools and toys and books and tutors and strategies that support those passions and interests. And then proactively, creatively making sure that young individuals also set up for anything else that life might throw at them by making sure they have a good understanding of rhetoric, of logic or persuasion. I'm sorry? Of rhetoric or persuasion, of logic or computer programming, of reading, of writing and of arithmetic. That's really how we educate. And I'm pretty sure our sons are aware of this. But, you know, I think it'd be pretty shocking in the future for a young Greenfield to be found doing anything other than attending probably like a classically based private school or being unschooled.

Yeah. And our kids know there's like zero pressure for them to go to college.

Yeah. How do you deal with the abundance mindset? By the way, I should mention with college, because I think this came up on our last call. I actually do respect the idea of a well rounded liberal arts education that again, is rooted in things like classic literature, rhetoric, logic, reasoning, Latin, you know, Christianity and history. Like, I think that does a good job setting a young person up for life, whether they decide to be a lawyer or an engineer, physician or an artist or author or anything else. I don't think it's necessary. But I can tell you there's a really good liberal arts institution in Moscow, Idaho, our sons are quite interested in. And so while we're not that infatuated as college, like, there's a few exceptions to that rule. All right, so how do you create an abundance mindset and deal with scarcity thoughts and thinking? For me personally, I think that the abundance mindset must be rooted in faith, because if you don't have a higher power that you trust, who will provide for you in the same way that God dresses the flowers of the field and feeds the sparrows, you're going to have a really hard time having the trust that's necessary to say something like, okay, I'm going to sock away 10%. And really, if you look at traditional giving back, it's 10 to 30% of my income to charity, to people, to the church, to others who need it in a spirit of abundance. So I think that one part of creating an abundance mindset is trusting God. I think another part about creating an abundance mindset, frankly, not to sound stupid, is just like recognizing the tendency that human beings have towards a spirit of scarcity, identifying that in oneself or one's shadow self, and then just basically having the awareness that the fallback tends to be scarcity and selfishness. Like humans are fallen creatures and we do tend to, at our core, be selfish. And basically, I think that knowing that, identifying that, recognizing it, and then placing one's trust in God and attempting to be more and more sanctified in Christ each day, which means becoming like Jesus, who was a servant of all, is really, in my opinion, the best way to approach it. An abundance mindset. I mean, really, an abundance mindset, in my opinion, is synonymous with becoming like Jesus.

And I think to just tag along on that is it's not having a lot of things, like you can have abundance and very little. I grew up that way. And so it's like. And still have happiness and joy. So it's not abundance in, like having things or having enough money. There's a you can have abundance outside of that.

Yeah, exactly. Like an abundance mindset. You're saying, like, it's not just money.

Yeah, it could be. Yeah. I was like, really? I really. I mean, you, like it says in scriptures, you, like Paul said, I learned to abound when I had very little and when I had very a lot. You know, you can abound in either situation. Yeah, really, it's a spirit. It's not right. It's not measured by actual physical.

It's that Viktor Frankl esque idea of just choosing happiness, of being content no matter your circumstances, which is of course, a core part of the Greenfield family mission statement. And so, yeah, I think that if you're happy, no matter your circumstances and your attempts to be more like Jesus every day, that you're going to be able to operate a lot more easily with that spirit of abundance. Now, how do you create the mindset for perseverance and for resilience? I mean, I think that the outside observer would probably say that I personally, with all the masochistic shit I've done over time from Ironman triathlons and Spartan races and body, like, I'm known as a guy who just like puts my nose to the grindstone and does hard physical things. Although I've probably gotten a little bit softer with old age. I like to sleep in every now and again. And I don't go out and do these triathlons and stuff anymore. But I think one part of building perseverance and resilience is doing hard things every day, scheduling them. Like I play guitar piano, or do something that challenges my mind and my fingers and my coordination. Every day I do something that makes my lungs burn or makes me want to like, sweat out my eyeballs in the sauna or shiver in the cold pool or swing an unwieldy object like a kettlebell. Every day I walk every day. When I'd rather be sitting to work, I instead just like, put on my shoes and go burn trails because I know that moving is good for you and it builds up perseverance and endurance and resilience. I even think that spiritual resilience is built up through things like prayer and fasting and meditation and silence and solitude and worship and journaling and devotions. And a lot of the things I talk about in my books Fit Soul and my book Endure. And then I tackle the physical endurance part of things. My book Beyond Training and my book Boundless. I think that the Greenfields are hard workers. I have to admit that at the back of my mind is always the that thought that, gosh, do my kids sleep in too much? Do I not push them hard enough? Do they need to be doing more burpees? Do they need to be doing more hard things? Should we be camping more? All the things that I know kind of take a young person outside their comfort zone. I do question that about myself a lot because sometimes I look at people who intentionally live a stoic lifestyle just to be hard on themselves, and I'm like, I don't know, do you really have to fast for 72 hours every week and then go, you know, do a, like an eight hour workout every weekend? Maybe not. But, you know, at the same time, I think that intentionally weaving periods of hardship and resistance as almost like micro doses of hardship and resilience into one's life is something that, that can build perseverance and resilience. I just think it needs to be kind of, you know, intentionally scheduled.

Yeah. And it's like, yeah, like, you Said, it's not just physical, hard things. It's sometimes it is denying yourself certain things. And I agree with you. I'm like, it's just having probably small doses of difficult things daily prepare you for the really hard things that just show up on your plate.

Yeah.

If you don't do hard things ever, you won't be able to overcome.

Yeah. And I think a big part of this, and, like, I really want to make sure I nip this in the bud. In our family, as we accumulate wealth, is just this idea of dopamine. We live in a very dopaminergic era. You know, whether it's social media or food or sexual sensations or, like, we could live all day long triggered by dopamine and addictions to food and supplements and drugs and smart drugs and coffees and teas and all sorts of stuff. And I just want to really make sure, like, I've been thinking about this term. I was even thinking about writing a book by this title called Viceless. Like, having this mentality that you want to not be attached to anything in life. Viceless. Like, you don't need coffee, you don't need tea, you don't need marijuana, you don't need Kratom, you don't need Instagram, you don't need any of these things that we tend to kind of, as Anthony DeMello says in his book awareness, become so attached to that our happiness depends on them. And so I think that that's something I really want to make sure that, you know, the Greenfield family is known for is. Is we don't have any dependency on dopamine and don't tend to be addicted to, you know, substances and activities because, like, you know, even genetically, I've looked at my father's genes, my mother's genes, my own genes, haven't looked at Jess's so much. But, like, we're like hardwired addictive personalities. And I'm always kind of like, I know, I know Jess is a lot less positive. What are the best habits to form for a healthy life? Well, I mean, you know, as far as the things to avoid for a healthy life, I would say exactly what I was talking about. Like crutches, addictions, things that you rely upon to feel good, whether that's, you know, cigarettes or alcohol or marijuana or even exercise. You know, I think that just avoiding dependency on anything is super duper healthy to have a healthy lifestyle. But as far as living a healthy lifestyle, honestly, balance. Yeah. I mean, like, again, how much time you got? I've Written a whole book on this. But I think it comes down to eating real whole food as close to nature as possible. Moving your body by lifting heavy stuff, sprinting and engaging in low level physical activity every single day. Consistently not eating too much food, eating in a relaxed state around people, having good relationships both with God as well as your fellow human beings. Being outside in nature, getting lots of good sunlight, exposing yourself to the stressors of things like heat and cold and heavy objects and lung sucking type of activities, good clean water, pure minerals and just largely kind of like an ancestral, kind of like primal lifestyle. In an era where we have a lot of evolutionary mismatches, you know, in this post industrial era where like living in boxes, sitting in boxes, traveling in boxes and eating out of boxes, I think that the more that we can identify that and live more close to nature, the better. So I frankly am not too worried that the Greenfields are going to be an unhealthy family, just because I've kind of set the standard for us. But those are a few things that come to mind. What have been the most meaningful choices and decisions that you have made? And what was your process? That seems like a really broad question. Yeah, like that's a super broad question. Kind of difficult to answer, but it's on your mindset. What are the meaningful choices, decisions you have made?

Well, I think one of them was like staying close to our family. Our family is extremely important to us. We could have lived anywhere in the world and we chose to live near our family so our kids could grow up knowing their grandparents and their cousins and have a really rooted community. So we could have been transient, but we chose not to because I personally thought it was a choice that we made for ourselves and not for our kids.

That's true. I had a lot of opportunities in la, in Austin, in Miami, in Seattle, where I could be making a lot of money right now. And we chose to stay close to home, close to family and close to nature. So that's one I'd say. Another one was education. Choosing an alternative education model. That was a really important decision that we made. Our decision to just really hardcore buckle down and focus on our family. Like our emphasis on faith and family I think has been more than I would say and don't let me put words in your mouth, Jess. I think probably more than either of our parents even focused on like, I think like we just. Jess and I really recognize that if we don't develop a playbook for the Greenfield legacy, nobody's gonna do it. And so just that decision that we just really want to build the Greenfield name, not in a narcissistic way to be great, but just in a way that it builds legacy so you can.

Identify who you are, what you are.

What you stand for, as great an impact for Christ as possible through the Greenfield family. That's just something that has been a big decision for us. And then I can't think of any major decisions, but I should just say that any big decision that we make is just steeped in prayer and seeking God's wisdom and spending time in silence with a journal, in meditation. We just really carve out those intentional times to be able to go to God and make God a part of that decision making process, which I think is important. So what are the most important things you would want future generations to know that have been instrumental in your success? Basically, this idea that you chop wood, you carry water, small, consistent amounts every day. And there's this saying that I heard once, like, don't dance on the farm. Meaning, like, at the end of the day, you're doing a big party that the work's done, because the next day, you know, you're going to be getting up, milking cows, plowing the fields, you know, picking the weeds, you know, hauling the hay, and just basically doing all the things you did the day before because the work never stops. And someday you'll be in heaven, living forever and resting forever. But right now, here on Earth, if you want to make maximum impact with whatever skill set you've been given in life, you just got to wake up and chop wood and carry water and do it consistently every day. Yeah, I mean, that's what I want future generations to know. Like, embrace discomfort, embrace the endurance and perseverance and resilience necessary to keep coming back every single day and putting in the work. Chop wood, carry water. That's really as simple as success gets. Just do, do the work. And what ideas and philosophies were passed down to you by your ancestors that still serve you?

Well, mine is, I think sacrifice trumps any kind of financial that you can give to anyone. If you sacrifice for someone, that's way more important than any kind of money you can give to them.

What do you mean by that?

Like, when I, when I was young, my family, I, My dad made $30,000 a year and raised a family of six. Our Christmases were all handmade things, but my parents would spend hours and hours making that happen, you know, and it was because we had very little. But what they gave us was a lot more than just like a dollhouse. It was invested time, probably nights that were, like, till midnight, you know, and we all knew that. And so it's like their sacrifice stands out more to me than anything that they actually really gave to me.

Yeah, that makes sense. That idea of time and presence. Presence with a TS or presence with a ce, not a ts, like, that's. That's basically gift that every human can receive. Like, humans want to be seen, we want to be loved, and we want to be heard. And I think that that idea really resonates in what justice said. You know, we don't necessarily want to be given stuff. We want to be seen, we want to be loved. I don't want to be heard. And, you know, other ideas and philosophies that I would say were passed down to me by my parents, I can't think of a whole lot, but I definitely. I saw hard work. Like, my dad is a serial entrepreneur. I didn't see him working smart necessarily, but I did see him working hard. I also think that our family, we really did have an emphasis on love for God and a love for family. Like, those two things were really important, both faith and family. It wasn't executed perfectly, but it was definitely something that. That we. That we focused on, that we held dear. Those. Those ideas and philosophies of faith and that a family. You know, my grandfather was a great salesman, and he worked with the likes of Zig Ziglar and a lot of these other motivational speakers. And again, same thing with him. He wasn't necessarily one of those guys who was super duper present for his family because he worked so hard. But at the same time, he had an incredible work ethic, and he prided himself on building a great business and having great customer service and taking care of his customers, being an ethical and honest business person. And I think that that definitely got passed down to my dad and got passed down to me. So, yeah, I mean, as far as ideas and philosophies, I wouldn't say that I had a ton that was passed down traditionally, but those are a few of the things that come to mind. And then do you have any formulas that support me in my success or any formulas that support Jessa in her success? You know, like I mentioned, one formula is that idea of chopping wood, carrying water, doing small, consistent bits every single day, no matter what. Getting up earlier, going to bed earlier, I think is important. More productive things happen in the morning than happen in the evening. Painting with a broad brush. I think evenings are more Focused on recreation, entertainment. Mornings are more based on work. So going to bed early and getting up early is a formula that's been helpful for me. Scheduling and calendaring everything, planning things out, sometimes to the minute is a way that I've been able to be very, very productive. Just basically protecting time and recognizing the value of an importance placed upon the sanctity of time. That's another really important one. Yeah, I mean those are a few of the formulas I could think of. I can't say that there's a, a whole, a whole lot of like algorithms or hard set formulas that I follow though.

And I also say like identifying like your purpose, knowing like what is a good use of your time and what is not. For me, that's been a big thing for me because I. There's a lot of shiny pennies for me. And so I have to really figure out like if this is going to be valuable or waste time.

Yeah, yeah. Identifying the most purpose filled activity, having life's purpose statement. I mean, there are other formulas like we meditate in the morning, we meditate in the evening. We have a gratitude practice every day. We have a service practice every day where we write down one person we're going to serve that day along with the one thing we're grateful for. At the end of each day, we engage in a process of self examination. We examine what it is that we did that was most purpose filled that day. What we did good, we could have done better. We pray in the morning, we pray in the evening, we pray before meals. We have family dinners. I mean, I've mapped out a lot of our formulas in the Greenfield family playbooks. Those are all kind of written down, the type of things we worked with with Rich Christensen of the Legato family Foundation. So those are a few of the major things that come to mind when it comes to formulas. So what kind of relationship do you want to have with your family? I mean, to me personally, it's pretty simple. I want to have a good relationship with their family. I want to be bonded, won't be together. We don't want to have, you know, strife between sisters and brothers or stupid bitter arguments that last for years that tear so many families apart that in the long run are often because of just like stupid and silly things. We want to be bonded as a family. We want to be together for family reunions and for family get togethers. We want to have pride in our offspring and our children, our children's children, their children for being a Greenfield. We want our family to know what it means to be a Greenfield and what we value and what we stand for. And we really do not want to be a family. It's like ships passing in the night. But I mean, if you hung out with our family right now, we're close knit, we're bond, we laugh together, we live together, we enjoy each other. We don't just like, put up with each other, but we actually enjoy, like, we love being together. We have a great time. We're all like lovers and friends and family members and brothers and sisters in Christ and just the whole shebang. So I would say those are a few of the main things that come to mind for me.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's, there's a lot of descriptive words I could put throw out there, like authentic, respectful, transparent, you know, like, I mean, I think that's, that's.

Yeah, yeah.

Those are the type of characteristics that I'm, that I'm interested in our family having. Really, it's just brother and sisterly love for one another.

Yeah, yeah. And it says, how do you go about choosing relationships? And do you have a method to protect you from people that may not have the same values as you? Well, let me put it this way. When we had a party at our house once, somebody commented, guys, your house, the Greenfield house, is like the island of misfit toys. It's like you have like the, the pagan massage therapist and the weird person from down the street and the overweight person who doesn't know anything about exercise and these super healthy people over here and a single jiu jitsu fighter over here and a family of five over here. And we're not judgmental people. We don't try to choose to just hang out with the people who are the same as us. The only thing we're picky about in our relationships is we know we are the equivalent of those who we spend time with, whether the equivalent of those people from a health standpoint or from a character standpoint or from a value standpoint. So the main thing that we pay attention to is, you know, whether or not the people that we're with are going to rub off poorly on us or whether we're going to rub off positively on them. I don't necessarily fool myself thinking, oh, I can hang out with a bunch of bad people and expect myself to be the good influence on those people and not put myself at risk of being tempted or falling into sin or compromising scenario by surrounding myself with bad people, but at the same time, you know, I'm not one of those guys. Like a Christian says, oh, I'm never gonna like, talk to a prostitute or a tax collector or sinner or whatever. Not the tax collectors these days are bad. Yeah. Nothing against accountants, but you know what I'm saying, Like, basically we're picky in that we surround ourselves with people who are going to build us up, but not in a manner that's like, overly judgmental. I guess we aren't like, proud and narcissistic and haughty. Although we are always hyper aware of the type of people that we're surrounding ourselves with, Whether those are people who are like, on our TV or in our earbuds, like entertainment and music and movies, or whether those are people who are physically with. Like, we do constantly analyze the nature and the character of those individuals, knowing that they could wind up influencing and affecting the way that we live.

Just to tag you on that, I'm like, we're very, like, welcoming to all kinds of people, but in the same breath, I'm also very picky about the people who I want to influence me. You know, I will pick out certain women with attributes that I actually would like to see more in myself, and I will tether myself to them greater than other people for that reason. So, yes, we're open and welcoming, but that makes sense.

All right.

Well.

Well, yeah, so I think that tackles relationships. Have you had any health issues and concerns that may reduce your life expectancy, and do you plan to create good health as you age and expand your life expectancy? Yeah, I mean, like, you're talking to a guy who, even though I think this is silly sometimes I'm considered to be an icon in the longevity and anti aging sector. Like, that's one of the things I do is I train people how to live a long time with good lifespan and good health span. So if there is a life extension strategy that exists, I have probably done it from stem cells to NAD to laser lights to, you know, the whole shebang. So I plan to continue to create good health as I age. But I need to note that my goal is not to live as long as possible. My goal is to keep my body put together so that I can be as impactful as I can with a great combination of health span and lifespan to be able to make as great an impact as I can for God during this life that I have on this planet, whether I live till I'm 70 or whether I live till I'm 170. And so as far as issues and concerns, I've personally had that might influence my life expectancy. I have had, like, gut and colon issues in the past. That's really probably the number one thing is. And my family does have a history of, like, gut and colon issues, so I think that would just be the number one thing that I'm cognizant of. How about you, Jessa?

As far as I'm aware, I don't have anything that I specifically worry about. And my family, on average, lives into their 90s, so there's not a whole lot in my family.

She's got good genes, so I don't.

Have any big concerns about any long.

And both of us take really good care of ourselves. Like, Jessa does, like, hot yoga and walking and hiking and lots of outdoors work and lots of spiritual work, and she takes good care of her body, and I do, too. So, yeah, we definitely do the things one would expect from a dietary and a movement strategy to expand life expectancy. Do I expect our assets to grow at a higher rate than inflammation, or do we expect to draw down our assets during our lifetime? I would say we expect our assets to grow at a rate that exceeds inflammation. I mean, even, like, you know, our outlook on things like vacations, right? Like, we take many retirements throughout the year. Like, tiny little vacations, like, you just got back from the Grand Canyon, you know, and then we're going to go cycling in Italy next year, and we're planning on a trip to Hawaii. And, like, we'll do these little vacations. They're not like, you know, when we vacation, we do operate with a spirit of abundance. Like, we don't like to fly all the way somewhere, not go to, like, the nice restaurants or, you know, go see something cool. You know, when I was young, we used to travel. You travel and get to where you're going and not do anything because you didn't want, you know, you're afraid to spend any money, you know, because you got to afford to get home. And I. I figure if we're going to travel, you know, I travel, right? Like. Like, that's one of the times when maybe we're not quite as frugal, as frugal as we travel, because we recognize that, you know, the reason we went to this place is be able to enjoy, savor that part of God's good planet. But. But yeah, we're not spendthrifts. We don't plan on being, like, golfer, yacht owning retirees. I'll probably work till the day I kick the can. I think Justin probably will, too. So, yeah, we definitely Expect our assets grow at a rate higher than inflation. And you say, is it important that your investments align with your purpose and your passion? Oh, I mean, like, it's so like, I even, like, avoid much investing in even like the stock and bond market just in case some company should wind up in my portfolio basket. That might be a company that say, like, you know, like Disney as far as sexual deviancy or, you know, abortion rights or things like that. Like, yeah, like, I am definitely an ethics based investor and would never want my money put somewhere where it might harm people or it might rub against my own ethics and values and beliefs. And that's pretty straightforward. Yeah. One thing I should say about my investments too is that I'm careful to invest as much as I can in businesses whose success I can directly influence. But that's because I am an influence influencer. What I mean by that is, like, I'll invest in a company that I can also, like, be in the commercials for or do a podcast for, or, you know, advise as far as, like, the quality of their product, the development of their products. So, you know, that's another kind of investment philosophy that I have is I invest in companies that I can also influence and be directly involved in the growth of and quality of. How do you feel about relinquishing control of assets today to protect those assets from creditors? How about potential estate taxes? Well, I can't say I can comment too intelligently on this. I'm fine with relinquishing control again, operating in a spirit of abundancy and trust if that's something that allows those assets to be protected from creditors. Same thing with potential estate taxes. I mean, anything that we can do from, you know, charities and, and nonprofits to any other tax strategies, I'm totally game to do when it comes to protecting the wealth. So I'd rather have not a whole lot of money now and have those assets tied up elsewhere for future growth than I would be able to have those assets now so I can go see a movie and have popcorn. So that's just, you know, I'm a total marshmallow test type person. You put a marshmallow in front of me, give me 100 marshmallows 100 years from now, and I'll sit there for 100 years and have zero issues with it. So how do you define legacy and what does that mean to you? To me, legacy means that my values, my beliefs, what I hold dear, what I believe in, what I work for, what I would die for, what I live for is well understood by the generations that follow me and is built upon by the generations that follow me in a manner that each generation becomes subsequently wealthier, not only financially, but wealthier in characters, wealthier in values, wealthier in impact, wealthier in reach, wealthier in drive. And so I think, to me, legacy is just every generation becoming subsequently better. And when I say better, I mean just like better human beings physically, mentally, emotionally, financially, and spiritually.

I agree with that. Because sometimes I think legacy people are like, oh, I just want to control everything in the future while I'm not around. And that's not how I view that at all.

Yeah.

Because that's just. To me, that's silly.

I agree. And what are you currently doing to establish and live your legacy? I mean, it's conference conversations like this. It's the Greenfield family playbook. It's a Greenfield family trust. It's a Greenfield family logo, and it's a consistency.

Going to prayer every day and praying for kids and your family.

Yeah, yeah.

It's like, it's small things, too.

Little comings and goings. The Greenfield family meditations. What we do on Christmas, what we do on Easter, what we do on Thanksgiving. I mean, you know, fortunately, as part of this work, as I know that especially the financial team is listening to this calls Aware. I mean, that's a lot of work. Work that we've done with the Legato family Foundation and. And with. With Rich and so. So, yeah, I mean, like, all those pieces I know you're familiar with are pieces that we've had in place for. For legacy. So, yeah, I think that that one's pretty straightforward. And you say, what things are you not doing that would be essential to building your legacy? Gosh, I. I feel like we're doing a lot. I. I think probably the. The only thing I can think of on top of my head is, like, my sons don't. They don't shadow me at work a lot. It's not like I'm a blacksmith, and my sons are going to work with me every day shoeing horses and making axes and hammers. Like, you know, I work from home. My kids kind of see what I do, but it's not like they're. They're interning or working with dad much. I sometimes wonder, like, oh, should my kids be seeing me write more, seeing me podcast more? But I mean, like, I don't think so. I think they see a lot of fun. Yeah, I think that's, like, such a small thing. And, you know, maybe I'm just judging myself Too harshly. But, you know, but I. I think that everything that we're doing right now that's essential to building legacy. I mean, we don't know. We don't know.

But that's where you guys come in.

Yeah, exactly. So what are your best practices that you would like to continue to do more of in order to create your legacy? Oh, gosh. I mean, our. Our daily rituals and routines, our daily comings and goings. What we do with the kids when they're 8, when they're 12, when they're 16, when they're 20. I feel like freaking Rich Christensen right now. But he's rubbed off on me a lot when it comes to showing me the value of a lot of this stuff. And I think that the best practices that we've learned from the Legado Family foundation are, I mean, not to be just too simple and short, but I mean, like, to me, that along with our faith and, you know, going to church, those daily habits, like, those are the best practices, in my opinion. So that one just seems kind of. Kind of simple to me. Again. So in what ways do you make the world a better place? What kind of legacy and contribution do you want to leave behind? So, for me, I teach people right now how to be healthy and increasingly also how to find satisfaction in God, how to have aspects of Christ in all their life, and how to be most satisfied. Basically, God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in Him. And that's what I'm trying to teach people every single day. Not just to have success in health and meaning and fulfillment in health, but rather meaning and fulfillment spiritually, emotionally, in their relationships. I mean, the way that I'm making the world a better place is I'm using my platform as a creative media outlet to teach people how to live their optimized life. Not in a selfish and narcissistic way, but in a way that loves God, that loves others, and that savors all of God's creation while becoming more like Jesus every day.

For myself, my calling is my family and to minister to them. And I feel like I'm doing that effectively. And if I'm doing that effectively, we're putting out two amazing boys, men who can go out into the world and affect the world. So just pouring into her, for me, it's pouring into my family.

Yeah, I agree. And what are the most important things you want future generations to know about you and what you stand for? There's so many things. We even went through this process called a lifebook once where we mapped out 12 different areas of life. You know, our favorite quotes, our favorite books, those books process created by our friends John and Missy Butcher. And that's very helpful in terms of really defining who each of us are as individuals. But I think that the most important things that, you know, if my kids were to look back and talk about me or future generation, would look back and talk about Ben Greenfield, you know, the founder of this part of the Greenfield family or whatever, I'd want them to say that he was a hard worker who knew how to just basically put his nose down, do difficult things and again, chop wood and carry water. That he loved others more than he loved himself, that he loved God dearly, and that he was also just like a fun, loving, like, happy, go, lucky guy who just loved to savor all aspects of God's creation as a real renaissance man. Just like intensely curious about all aspects of life and, you know, not in a way that like grass would straws or tries to get the most out of every single day on this planet, but instead just looks around with awe and wonder and childlike curiosity of all of God's creation says, oh, man. Well, how can I help other people discover all the joy that I've found? So basically, I wake up every day, I do the very best job with whatever God has put on my plate and anything I'm curious about, especially when it relates to life optimism, which is kind of my specialty, I just love to dig into and research and share with as many other people as possible while working really hard in the process. And, you know, I would love for future generations to look back and. And know that about me.

For me, I think mainly it was just that I'm a kind person, that I'm a welcoming person, and that I truly love people and I want to help. I'm a helper.

Yeah, I would agree with that. And then you say you feel like your investments are shaping the world and making a better place. Well, I think it could be better, let me put that like my own business. We're already. We've raised a ton of money for World Vision. We're feeding kids and giving kids water in Africa and doing all sorts of drives and charities and, you know, we help people out in our local community. Maybe I judge myself too harshly, but I always feel like I could be doing more. More as far as my own personal investments. Yeah, I mean, a lot of them are in the. They're in the health industry, they're in the supplements industry, they're in the longevity industry. They're in, like, the life optimization industry. And so, yeah, I feel like I don't just invest in widget companies. I invest in companies that do do cool things that help you, particularly from a health standpoint. So I would say that, yeah, my investments are helping to make the world a better place, but it's. It's far from perfect. Like the Greenfield family, You know, if I look at. Obviously, this is a. Is a far cry from where I believe you look at, like, you know, whatever. Bill and Melinda Gates, you know, not that they're perfect people, but, you know, like, I like the idea that you think of them. You think, oh, this is a couple that's taking their wealth and they're trying to help a lot of people with it. Maybe in a misguided way, in their case, but, like, I would love for people to look back at the Greenfield town and be like, oh, Ben and Jessica Greenfield created a scenario where subsequent Greenfield generations could, like, they've done, put their nose to the grindstone, work really hard, live their best life, and then, like, do a great amount of good for a whole bunch of other people. Because we figured out a way to intelligently, with wisdom and systematically and with a great team, disperse our wealth around the world to the people. People who need it most in the most impactful way.

I don't have much else to add to that. Sorry.

Let me think. Just. Just. Just because we got a little. A little bit time on this walk left, I think a few other things that I didn't get off my chest that I'd like to say is, like, we really like Jess and I. I've probably been more like this than Jess is, but, like, we don't care that much about what people think of us. Like, we want to be our true, authentic selves and not who the world expects us to be. Like, so, you know, there's that phrase, I'm about to go to Austin, Texas, in a couple days. So this comes to mind. You know, keep Austin weird. Like, the Greenfields. Like, we are a little bit weird. Like, we are a little bit of pattern interrupt. And I pride ourselves on that. Like, we're totally okay with swimming upstream. We're totally okay with being the odd person out. I know I. I sometimes embarrass Jessa probably with some of the things I'll do in public or the things I'll wear or the things I'll say, but we're. We're unashamed. We're unabashedly ourselves. I would say that's One thing that kind of sets us apart, babe. What do you think?

Yeah, I would say so. But, like, we're unabashedly ourselves, but we do answer to the Lord. And I like, and so we. So that, I guess that is our governance. And so there. It's not that we don't have. We aren't governed.

Yeah, we are governed, right? Yeah. But I mean, well, at the same time, if Jess and I are, like, walking to a couple cocktail party, people look at us, they'd probably be like, oh, those are, like, two people who take care of themselves. They look okay, they're. They're not butt ugly, and they don't stink, and they seem to take care of themselves, and they know how to care of themselves in public. Like, so we're not, like, we don't care what people think of us like dirty hippies, but we are unabashedly and unashamedly ourselves in a graceful way. So I would say that's one thing that comes to mind. Another thing is that. And I might be more this way than Jessa, and this maybe comes back to the part that you asked about formulas, but I'm very, very productive, sometimes to a fault. But, like, I look at my friends who get home and watch Netflix and just, like, go to a lot of parties and hang out and just, like, go to dinners every night with their friends. Like, that's all great. Like, I'm all about enjoying other people and company in God's creation, but I feel like people waste. People waste a lot of time. Like, more time than they need to. Like, you know, our family might see two movies a year, and we might watch a TV show once a month. And yeah, we'll go to dinner, but it's not, like, excessive. Like, most of our dinners are at home with the family playing games and talking. You know, like, we just recently went on a 10 day family vacation, and our family vacation was basically like, wake up, meditate, devotions, work out, go to breakfast, hike all day, come home, hang out as a family, take a nap, play some cards together, go to bed. Right. So we're cut. We can kind of be simple, but not in, like, a boring way, but we don't fritter away a lot of time with specifically entertainment and watching other people. People live their lives. Like, we'd much rather be the stars of our own movie than watching other people's movies. That's the way I'd say it, babe. What do you think?

I'd absolutely agree. I mean, I've gotten rid of so many things on my phone because of that reason, because I just, I can identify them, say, that's wasting my time. I don't need that. So I literally deleted out of my life.

Yeah, exactly. Social media be another example that like our kids, they don't have phones. Well, they have a phone, but it's not like something they do much with. It's like their emergency backup phone. But like, I'm on social media and on my phone a lot, but if you pay attention to what I'm doing, like, if you were to look at, like, I don't even know how to use Instagram, meaning, like, I don't know how to scroll through an Instagram feed. I can't tell you the last time I just went on Facebook and just scrolled through stuff or Twitter. And like, even social media, I use that for hyper productivity. Like, okay, I got this video. I'm gonna post it now. I'm gonna say this, I'm gonna say that, Boom, publish, done. Like, so, you know, so social media for me is, is my business. And you know, a lot of times I'm watching something like a cooking show, it's to learn some new cooking tactic that I want to then, you know, put in a cookbook or learn from. So, so yeah, we're, we're pretty, pretty hyper productive and great managers of, of time. And then I would say the very last thing is that, you know, our, our faith is important. We central. We probably aren't like died in the wool Christians though, in the fact that, like, we're very spiritual. Meaning that like, well, we'll raise our hands and we'll dance to Christian music. We're also very intellectual with Christianity. We embrace like, the mystical aspects of like, miracles and being anointed with the Holy Spirit and, and deep prayer and listening to God and talking to God. We're not just like the Christians just like, go to church every Sunday is what I'm saying. Like, we have a pretty deep and magical and intimate relationship with the Creator. And like, I mean, like, deep, like just the acknowledgement of like, you know, angels and demons and fourth dimensions and Christian mysticism and this whole other world around. Like, there's a lot of stuff that people might look at us and be like, oh, that's not like standard, typical westernized American Christianity. We're kind of like this weird mashup of like, you know, some of the stuff that probably for me in the health industry through like Eastern mysticism and plant medicine has fed into that. But we've kind of like claimed that for Christ all the way down to, you know, just singing old school hymns, the guitar around the dinner table at night. Like, we. We have a strong Christian faith, but I guess the best way to describe it is our Christian faith is one that acknowledges the deep sacredness of the entire universe. Like, it's not a really, like, logical, rational, scientific, heady Christian Christianity that we have. It's more like this sacred, soft, spiritual Christianity. Yeah, you're right. It's this weird mashup of both. We've kind of, like, got this weird mashup in the same way that my business is this weird mashup of, like, ancestor wisdom meets modern science. Our faith is this mashup of, like, ancient spirituality and mysticism combined with, like, modern Protestantism. And because of that, sometimes. Sometimes I find it hard to, like, plug into a specific church or whatever, but either way, I just. I wanted to mention that too, just because obviously faith is really the most important part of our existence. When you look at the fact that we're going to live forever, at the end of the day, like, the most important part of us is our soul, and our soul practices here on earth are going to influence, you know, us.

For eternity and legacy and all of that.

Right.

I mean, because our faith, basically, if we really are living it out perfectly, penetrates every aspect of our lives to the very bites of food that we take in. Knowing that God is the one who makes up the cells.

Yeah.

And all of that. So it's like. Yeah, it's basically every aspect of our lives.

Yeah. I mean, to put a pretty pink bow on that. One of my favorite economics books is Sacred Economics by Charles Eisenstein. And if you've read that book, then you understand exactly what I'm talking about. There's even sacredness and money. All right, you guys. Well, I hope that gives you some stuff to work with. Whoever's listening to this, I hope you got something out of it. Got to know Jessa and me and the Greenfield family and our hopes and dreams and desires a little bit better. We managed to walk through a spring rainstorm and stay dry without destroying my phone. So yay, and God bless.

More than ever these days, people like you and me need a fresh, entertaining, well informed, and often outside the bottom box approach to discovering the health and happiness and hope that we all crave. So I hope I've been able to do that for you on this episode today. If you liked it or if you love what I'm up to, then please leave me a review on your preferred podcast. Listening channel, wherever that might be, and just find the Ben Greenfield Life episode. Say something nice. Thanks so much. Means a lot.