Building The Perfect Beast & Tuning Your Body's Electricity With Qi Gong.

In this episode of the Ben Greenfield.

Fitness show, what I try to do is I get up in the morning, I have a pretty good sized backyard and I have a nice little patch of grass in the back that faces east. And when I get up in the morning, I will usually use the eight briquet qigong, which is all standing, all motion and face east. Then I will finish up with a little meditative qigong. E equals MC squared, so atomic energy and we break that down into basically protons and electrons and we say that all the forces in the universe are either stemmed from or tied to some form of electromagnetism.

He's an expert in human performance and nutrition, voted America's top personal trainer and one of the globe's most influential people in health and fitness. His show provides you with everything you need to optimize physical and mental performance. He is Ben Greenfield.

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Hey folks, it's Ben Greenfield. And man, you probably know that I tend to get pretty infatuated with using special breathing techniques to work on my body or work on my mind. And in previous podcasts and articles I've talked about like rhythmic breath work while running and bicycling using techniques from for example the book Body Mind Sport by John Douyard or the book Running on Air by Bud Coates. I've talked about hyperoxygenation breathing and crazy 90 minute session spent literally like taking the body to another dimension while doing some of the training that I've done down at the Sealfit organization in Encinitas, California. I've talked about fire breathing using WIM HOF style techniques. I've talked about hypoxic and apnea training, the type of things that free divers do, Kundalini, yoga and beyond. And in today's episode I actually want to hone in on a specialized style of breath work that, that I actually, I don't know that much about, but I really want to learn a lot more about just because I've seen a lot of folks using this. It's called qigong. Qigong. It also goes by the name qigong. You may have heard of it before. It's also spelled key. It looks like it's spelled qigong. Q I G O N G. And my guest today is a guy who does this qigong. His name is Gary Edwards and Gary has been a martial artist his whole life. He's a former competitive boxer, he's a former elite bicycle racer, and he basically works with people all over the world to do things like use breath techniques to extend their time to failure, like how long they take to fatigue, to increase their core competency, to focus on cognitive balance, the stuff that he does. He's a USA Cycling certified coach, black belt and karate. He's a three time Florida Golden Gloves competitor, he's a cross country cyclist, he's a road racer in cycling, and he coaches a bunch of athletes all over the globe via this system that he has called Health Defense Training Systems. So if you have ever wondered what qigong is or you ever want to delve into, or you've ever wanted to delve into how breath work can make you a better athlete or help you to think better or move faster, then Gary is your man. So, Gary, welcome to the show, man.

Hey, Ben, glad to be here. Thanks for having me.

So I guess the first glaringly obvious question here is what exactly is qigong? And I'm also curious, kind of like how you discovered it and started to implement it.

All right, yeah. Well, I'll explain first what qigong is or qigong.

Sorry, he'll probably have to correct me a million times. And by the way, I should mention the spelling of it. Q, I, G, O, N G. That's exactly where you can go to get the show notes. If you go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com Qigong BenGreenfield Fitness Fitness.com Qigong. You can get the show notes. All right, so pronunciation out of the way, Gary, go ahead.

Well, let's. Hey, while we're on that subject, I know we're all going to get a laugh, but it's actually Daniels. My last name, Gary Daniels. You said Edwards, but it's okay.

Did I say Edwards? Really?

Yeah, it's okay.

I'm off to a fantastic start here. All right.

Yeah, it's all good.

Go ahead.

So, yeah, so it's, you know, first of all, we're translating from other languages. So as I explained it here, I think it'll kind of make sense here in a minute how, how we come to qigong. So the simplest way I can relate is, is it's a practice used to exercise our life force. Chi being this life force, life energy, prana, or the animating power that flows through each of us. And kung, kung or gong, again, this is spelling, translates into work, practice or basically acquiring skills. So where Kung fu, which we're all, I think familiar with, translates into hard work. And it's why we always refer to it as Wing Chun Kung fu or Hapgar Kung Fu to the styles that I've studied. So now if we put it all back together, then we can say qigong is the cultivating of our life energy. So much in the way.

So this chi thing. Sorry to interrupt, but this chi thing, like this concept of qi or flow, it sounds really woo woo, like I will admit. And so I have a tattoo on my shoulder and it is the Japanese chi symbol because I like this concept of life force and energy. And so I have one of these tribal sun pattern tattoos that makes it look like I was a frat boy, even though it's got meaning behind it. But I like this concept that we have flow throughout our bodies, right. And I do things like acupuncture and I do things like breath work. But is there some kind of a good description of like, what the flow is, what, what qi actually is, like from a, from a physiological standpoint?

Well, you know, sure. I mean, it's both. It's, it's when you, when you know that, you know, E equals MC squared and so atomic energy, and then we break that down, it's, you know, basically protons and electrons. And we say that, you know, all the forces in the universe are either stem from or tied to some form of electromagnetism. And so the universe itself derived from electromagnetism. And our bodies, you know, the same energy that flows through the universe and creates all matter is the same energy in which sustains life, but as well as it animates life. So, you know, difference between us and a, and a living tree is really just a couple, you know, whatever it is, chromosomes. And so it's really the life force again. In yoga they call it prana. And it does flow through throughout our bodies as bioelectricity. And like other forms of electricity, it moves under pressures, you know, electromotive force, EMFs by way of differences in potential.

Well, that's something that I've actually found interesting because I've looked into bioelectricity before and I mean, like, there's everything from like cameras out there that can take photos of people and show that they have electrical fields emanating from their body. Now, somebody tweeted me the other day and they sent me a link to this new kind of clothing that they're making for hunters, because animals can detect the electromagnetic field coming off hunters and they now have like clothing that can that can block some of those fields. And then one of the things I've talked about before on podcasts is how your heart actually generates an electrical field. There's this concept of heart rate variability, and the heart actually generates an electrical field that emanates out from the human body a lot farther than a brain wave field. Apparently it can go 8 to 9ft outside of the body. So if somebody is stressed out and they've got a really rapid heartbeat or they have a lot of sympathetic nervous system stimulation, you can almost. You can sense the stress. That's why you can walk into a room full of stressed out people and you almost feel what a lot of people would describe as bad energy. It really is interesting, this concept of bioelectricity. And even though I don't have my head fully wrapped around how it ties into energy meridians, that's actually something I wanted to ask you about is I'll readily admit that there definitely is some kind of bioelectricity going on in everybody. But how does it interplay with this whole idea of meridians? When it comes, it comes to, like, qigong or acupuncture is another common practice where we talk about triggering energy meridians.

Yeah, sure. I mean, qigong is basically a direct cousin of acupuncture. The acupuncture points lie along the same exact meridians, and there's, you know, hundreds. You know, the number varies depending on how the practitioners look at it. But let's just say 300 acupuncture points, then you have acupressure. And basically what qigong is, is stimulating the energy within your body through using the mind to direct, you know, the consciousness to direct the energy throughout your body. And it can be done either still, like in a meditative state, which is sort of internalizing the energy and focusing on the movement that's happening inside your body. Or it can be practiced more like another cousin would be Tai Chi, which we're familiar with, where Tai Chi, Tai Chi xuan is a little more of a martial aspect, where the movements are flowing, but each movement is, you know, in some. Some sense a block or a kill shot. You know, where in qigong it's really, really has more medical roots where, you know, and actually little, a little history or a little origin is there was a monk in India who's traveling through China who came upon the Shaolin temple and found that the monks there from such lifestyle of just seeking enlightenment, you know, their bodies became frail. And so he actually helped them create health, you know, from within, you know, show them how to create health from within themselves by using these specific movements. So what we're doing is when we use active qigong, we are moving the body in a certain way in which we can move the energy along the meridians. And it has to do with, you know, similar to way not everybody has an electrical background. I guess, coincidentally, I actually do.

Oh, really?

My former life is actually a licensed master electrician. So I've been studying those things and where, you know, and when we talk about how I got to that point, there's a lot of coincidences there because I started my martial arts from my. My electrical and martial arts started from the same individual. So really, Sensei? Yeah.

So as an electrician, as a trained electrician, have you. Have you ever tried to, like, measure a human body's electricity or. Or the actual electrical fields that you're moving around when you're doing something like qig?

Well, think about it like this then. Think about it from the perspective of, you know, electricity doesn't pass through each individual's body at the same rate. So if you were to get shocked and I were to get shocked, you know, we both have different levels of impedance throughout our bodies, right? So not everybody's the same. Not everybody's body is the same. And what I'm trying to do with, again, using my mind, you know, there's the. The masters, they would say that basically, where you send the chi, then the blood follows. So what you're doing is creating this path, this. This basically lowered resistance of this energy field throughout your body. And as you, you know, like again, with. With. With changing potentials, right. You know, the way electricity works in your house, right, is, you know, you're. You're controlling the potential and you're. You're. Can build your chi and then you can direct it, you know, map it out through your body and send it where your mind recognizes where. Where the Qi meridians are and then move the chi through your body. And basically what you're doing in a medical sense is increasing. Increasing this life force in your organs, actually. So.

Increasing life force in your organs. What do you mean?

Well, you know, let's say. Let's go back to where we were a moment ago and where we were speaking about the measurement or the recognition of the chi in the body. And yes, there are people that we say they, you know, again, there are people on another level of enlightenment where they can have sense, you know, sense energy, there's healing energy. I'm sure you're familiar where people can actually Heal other people without actually physically touching them or just as well, people have certain healing hands. So, but, but, but in medical science, you know, we can measure, you know, our hearts through, through EKG, we can measure brainwave through EEGs. And what is that? Is that not what we're actually measuring? Right. Is, you know, is the bioelectricity as it flows through our body. So the objective is to use the mind to sort of lower this impedance, relax the body, and move the energy throughout the body. As if you were, you know, an electrician and you specifically wanted to utilize electricity. Somewhere in the building, you would have a specific point where you would utilize it, and you're creating a circuit. So, you know, your body's meridians have a circuit throughout the body and you move in specific ways and, and basically are controlling this energy to really just. I guess the best word would be flow. To have flow throughout your body.

Okay, all right, got it. It's still, you know, obviously, and I know, and for people listening in, you know, it's still tough to, you know, Im imagine electricity moving through your body or being able to have somebody with their hands manipulate your electricity or somebody with a needle manipulate electricity. But for me personally, it's something that I've definitely felt and experienced. And I think we kind of have one foot in the Woo Woo camp and one foot in the alternative medical camp. If we had another foot, maybe in the electrician camp. But how does it actually work? Gary, how does qigong work? What would a typical qigong session look like? Let's jump into brass tacks here.

Okay, well, if. I would say, if yourself and the listeners are familiar with, you know, karate and the forms of kung fu and karate, well, they normally have a standard set of movements, you know, in karate, I think maybe more familiar. They're called katas. You know, a kata. So from beginning to end, basically a kata takes you through certain punches and blocks and stances, right? And a lot of the kata has to do with footwork, which is basically grounding yourself such that your center of gravity, you know, I mean, the earth actually pushes up against your feet. And to recognize that you're, you're, you're grounding yourself and creating. Finding your own center of gravity is almost the most important thing. Posture. So what you're doing is you are creating a certain posture in which you wear the crown of your head, okay? And the base of your feet are both in contact, you know, up and down, and you're. And you're creating this lower impedance where with your mind that energy can pass through your body. And then. So you would go through these specific patterned movements in which each movement is directed at a specific organ, actually.

Okay, so when you look at something like acupuncture, when you, like, stick a needle in a certain area of the skin, it's supposed to stimulate, like the liver or the kidney, what you're saying is when you're doing qigong, there's specific movement patterns that you do that target those same organs via similar. Similar energy meridians. Like you're trying to drive electricity or movement or stimulation into specific organs with a movement that you do in qigong.

That's correct. That's correct. And. And not. Not as a plug, but if you would go to YouTube and go to health defense and again, spelled with the Q I G O N G for athletes. Got a short clip there. Loaded. Where my. My instructor and also training partner, partner Curtis, Sifu, Curtis Taylor, he did a demonstration of one style. You know, there's thousands of styles of qigong out there, and which is called the eight brocades. And the reason we filmed that one is it's actually the Most available on YouTube, the most available on other forms of media. You can find it all over Pinterest and all these other sites. But what we did was we walked through the eight brocades, and he just did two repetitions of each. And, and then I narrated, and as you. If. If the listeners go there again, health, you know, health defense qigong for athletes with sifu Curtis Taylor, then you can see that each of the specific eight movements, and I mentioned which organ you're actually enhancing at that time.

Okay, all right, got it. So, so is this a scripted series of movements? I mean, like, is it the same every time? Like, if you look at, like, Bikram yoga, for example, it's technically the same moves that you do every time. Is qigong like that?

Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And in different forms. Just like different forms of, you know, there's hundreds, I don't know how many forms of kung fu, karate, you know, and all those, when they have the learning, when you. When you start out as the white belt at the very beginning, then you. Then you learn the movements very specifically. And what's wonderful, I would say, about qigong is, is that as you heighten your experience and you learn more, then you make it more curtailed and more specific to yourself, your body type, what you're feeling, how you move, the energy. But the movements are all the same. They're just certain little things that the individual might do you know you and I don't pedal exactly the same way.

So you can tweak it and customize it to you.

Absolutely. And the more you do, the more heightened so, so just really, it's really we're going down the right place here because the, the more that you're able to do that, the more you sense the chi, the more that you move your body, more specifically, the more consciously aware of yourself you are, the more that your personal energy is moving throughout your body, the more little, the little minute changes that you can make so that you can actually feel. And you will feel it and you will feel it. And at the beginners will predominantly feel little tingling I think is the word paresthesia, correct. Little tingling in your hands. You can feel some tingling. You can actually get raised goosebumps in your arms. And then you just start to feel and sense when you're kind of in tune, kind of when you're striking the right chord within your body and then you have harmony and once you do, then you then you know you're going down the right path and then you just start again like sort of tweaking the pattern movements. You can typically stay within them. And that's, you know, again we're just using historical data from thousands of years. But I would say a good analogy here, Ben would be, is been somebody myself been involved in martial arts for over 40 years. I come from the era where, you know, if you were in a karate class and you know, you wanted to have a little one on one with somebody from another school, you would stick specifically to your style. And if you went outside your style, you know, you would probably get a brow beating when you get back to class. And now we see the morph of this mixed martial arts and we can see that's actually the height of, you know, this, it's not really self defense, but this, these fighting styles in which the more you know and the more you gather information and practice that which styles and which movements work best for you, the more you enhance your, your, your martial arts in that sense. So it's the same thing with this. You're just that your mind is basically just steeped in health and healing and longevity. Although I guess I'll just segue right into, you know, there really are three, three kind, three basic kinds of the qigong. One is the medical, the preventative, the healing. Okay. One is more what you would consider the meditative, the spiritual, you know, going towards enlightenment. And then there's the martial arts qigong. So what I feel, I'VE done is through my reading and studies is try to gather all the information from all three and try to apply that to like you do, to human performance. How do we, you know, have a healthier body all the way around? You know, how do we breathe better? How do we become more efficient? You know, how do we become more powerful? How do we, how do we raise our energy when we need to raise our energy? And how do we, you know, here's as an example, if I'm working with somebody who's a road racer or a cross country racer, I mean, typically they're coming up to the line and they're trying to settle their nerves, you know, the race is about to start, they're at the starting line, you know, you know, we're waiting, we're waiting, we're waiting. And you know, they're dissipating energy like mad. So, you know, you would talk about a breathing technique that they would use to lower, you know, lower their energy, be calm and be, you know, in the moment. And then also work with BMX racers who line up at a gate and they go from zero to max power, you know, supposedly, you know, well over between a thousand and two thousand watts in an instant. And what I do is try to show them how to go from zero to everything they have, elicit, you know, every muscle cell in their body and fire off everything at once so that when they come out of their, out of that gate, you know, they're half wheel ahead of everybody and in the first corner.

Right. So what would, what would it look like? What would a typical session look like? I mean, is this something somebody is doing, let's say for an athlete, for example, would they be doing this like in the morning before they race or before, like a big training day? Would they be doing it like right there on the starting line, like super duper quickly? Like, what would it look like? Walk me through the process of somebody actually using qigong for performance.

Okay, well, how I use it, and let's just say not every day is like it's supposed to be. But what I try to do is I get up in the morning, I have a pretty good sized backyard and I have a nice little patch of grass in the back that faces east. And when I get up in the morning, I will usually use the, the eight brocade qigong. And which is all standing, all motion and face east. And then I'll, then I'll finish up, finish up with a little meditative qigong can be related to a standing post and basically What I'm doing then is getting in more of a. If folks are familiar with a horse stance where my knees are substantially more bent, I'm all, like, easing, almost easing into a squat position, but I don't go down very far. And my hands are out in front of me, level with the ground, about chest height. And it looks like I'm out there hugging a tree, but the trees all the way, you know, in front of me. And then I'll. My fingers are open. And again, these, these, this position you can find just really all over by Googling or otherwise.

Just. Yeah, I think you're talking about the position. I've seen it before on the Internet. Like that, that type of, like, relaxed, like, ready, like qigong position. And how long are you doing it for? Like, are, and, and are you. Are you specifically, like, moving, like, from your toes up to your head with specific breathing patterns? I mean, help me wrap my head around this.

Yeah, that's, yeah, that's what I. So when I, When I'm doing the active qigong, the eight brocades, then what I'm doing is focusing on the specific meridian as I'm moving my arms up. When I raise my palms straight up, where, if my feet are planted, of course, I'm, I'm, I'm feeling the energy. I'm out there barefooted, I'm in the grass. And, you know, in my mind, I'm pulling energy up through, through my feet. I know you wanted to talk about that. And then the first movement is just basically sort of a heaven and earth is what they would. And my hands would be. My, My arms would be stretched directly over my head, and my, My Wrist Bend at 90 degrees such that my palms are facing straight up. And I would take a deep breath, diaphragmatic breath. Your tongue would be placed at the roof of your mouth with the tip of your tongue at the back of your teeth. And here's where we're interesting. So you have the meridians. Flow is yin, yin and yang. And so you have. Everything flows, you know, circuits and loops. And you can actually close, open and close a yin yang circuit between your tongue and the roof of your mouth. So what you would do is place your tongue to the roof of your mouth with your tip of your tongue right behind your teeth. Your lips are sealed, you know, gently sealed, and you're breathing in, in through your nose and down in through, using your, Your abdomen to, to, to, to. To draw out the energy. You're relaxed, the posture is in again. Your knees are bent. Everything's relaxed and draw a deep breath in through my. Through using my diaphragm. And then when I breathe out, then I open the circuit. So basically it's the good air in, right? Positive energy in. I breathe in and then I pulled my. Let my tongue rest away from the roof of my mouth. And then. Then I breathe out and. And push, you know, push out the toxins and the negative energy along with the carbon dioxide. And then I will do each movement eight times for the eight, you know, eight pieces of brocade. But I'll do eight repetitions each, and that takes about 15 minutes.

I was going to ask you how long it takes. So it's not. You're doing this every day and it only takes 15 minutes?

Well, you know, I do what I do. Yeah. So my morning routine, if I'm home, you know, if I. If I'm doing what I want, you know, and my day is I will go outside in the morning, I will do that. Then I will do the standing post, and then I'll come into the house. And then being. Being a rider or fledgling rider, then I will open up my laptop and then I will actually be on the ground where it's sort of. Again, you have to be familiar with. I don't know the name of it exactly, but basically I can just describe where I'm on the ground, where my shin is completely laying across the ground, the tops of my feet. So I'm actually sitting on my haunches. I'm sitting on my heels in sort of a meditative position that's used in martial arts. It's, like, at attention. And then I have my laptop and I'm typing, and I sit in that position. And then I'll sit there until, like, basically my legs kind of fall asleep. And then I will start moving into stretching. And then I'll start stretching my body. And now while I'm working and I'm thinking and I'm. And I'm still. I'm still breathing. So now I'm breathing and then doing more of just natural athletic movements, like, you know, stretching my quads or, you know, stretching my hamstrings. And then I'll move along with that. So that total workout, first 20, 20 or so minutes, is sort of, sort of more directed specifically to qigong and meditative, if you will. And then up to the next hour or more, then I'm just continuing to stretch my body where I'm still breathing in the same manner. And, you know, once in a while, if I just feel like I need to raise my energy. I'll do the, you know, a little WIM HOF method myself with, you know, trying to do a little hyperventilation, but just really just, you know, just to try to raise my energy up, depending on where I'm going next.

Okay, gotcha. Now what do you notice? I mean like what happens? Do you get. Are we talking about something where you're getting less sore? Are we talking. Do you any self quantification and see if it affects like alkalinity or acidity? Are you look like, what do you, what are you looking for when you finish doing a qigong session or like incorporating qigong in your practice?

You know, I, I feel that, you know, there's, there's definitely as like in any other type of. I feel that exercise for, you know, accomplishment. You know, I feel really good about myself. I feel like I. I've not only done some form of exercise, but that exercise is directly related to my own health, you know, preventative healing, longevity. And I just feel like I really am energized and you know, in a sense ready to take on the day.

So when, when you were talking about like breathing through your hands and your feet, I think is the way that you described it. What do you mean? How do you actually breathe through your hands and feet?

Well, you know, I mean we also breathe through our pores.

No, I don't, I actually don't know that's. But I. But I'm curious. How does it, how does this actually work?

Yeah, yeah, no problem. Okay, so actually have I took a few notes here just to make sure I wouldn't get. So I'm actually going to read a little some of my own notes just so I was be prepared. So Qi is rooted in the feet and manifested in the hands. There are five places where Qi in the body communicates with the Qi surrounding the body. The face, the two labor palace cavities, one in each of the palm of the hands and the two bubbling, well, cavities in the bottom of the feet. And let me digress a moment. And we have to understand that qigong as a whole, being 5,000 or more years old, can be quite esoteric. So if we really got down to some of the things, you know, we could really get into a rabbit hole here. Okay, so there are places, there are these places where we use to sense our surroundings. Right. Hands and feet are extremities. They have the most nerve endings. You know, the place where reflexology taps into and the all run in through, you know, through and through the Hands and feet, you know, it's very much, you know, acupuncture and so forth and anything to do with all your organs, you know, there, there are reception points, you know, like again, it's called reflexology in the hands and feet. So when, when our feet are rooted into the ground and we're firmly tied, tied to the earth, you know, we can pull up energy through our feet. And basically what we're thinking in a sense is we're pulling up energy completely through our body from, from, from both extremities in from the hands, in from the feet, and engaging the whole body as a breathing system at once, as opposed to just shallow chest breathing. And what we're trying to do, like I say, is energize the whole body. And I think the best way that I can describe it, if you have another question related to that, I certainly try to answer.

Okay, got it. I think it kind of makes sense. It's like when I move my hands and my feet when I'm doing like yoga or like Wim Hof style breathing, where you get all tingly in your hands and feet. You're just basically trying to take that energy, be aware of it and almost like concentrate it into your body. I even wiggle like my fingers and toes when they start to get tingly as I'm doing some kind of like a hyper oxygenation practice or something like that. And that seems to help out a little bit too. Do something like that. Is that kind of like approximately what you're doing here?

Yeah, I think if you look at it from the perspective again that the hands and the feet are at the extremities of the body and you know, and again, back when I said the first, the first brocade that I mentioned, where my hands are stretched directly up over my head, pointing at the sky, my feet are rooted to the ground. And what I'm trying to do is draw energy in from both, you know, both places and have it pass completely through my body. So in a sense, so that the energy, the breathing, the air, the nutritive qi doesn't miss a cell in my body. I want it to catch every cell. And so that's, that's kind of what I'm thinking when I, when I'm doing the exercises.

Are you aware of any kind of work that's done that looks at self quantification of what happens to like cortisol or any other biomarkers in response to doing something like qigong or qigong?

Well, you know, I tell you, if you read Enough about, you know, books online, any literature about qigong, and if you read enough about it, you'll, you'll in a sense be convinced it's a panacea. I mean, that they will. You know, it cures and does everything, but. Yes, absolutely.

Like what?

Well, you know, it. What? Well, I think what it's trying to, what it's trying to mimic is see, if you really consider I'm trying to get the right root or the heart of the qigong practice is it's really becomes prenatal. It's like, how did we breathe when we were in the womb? How did our body take in nutrition? How did our body act again, if, you know, all the circumstances were, were perfect or, you know, our mothers were eating properly and breathing properly and so forth. But, you know, there's a lot to learn about prenatal breathing. You know, that's basically what, you know, again, the masters, you know, the people that I'm, I'm reading from and learning, learning from, relate to. And that is, you know, trying to be more like natural, you know, before our minds got sort of warped, if you will, from, from what goes on in society, you know, what is the most natural way to be? What is the most natural way to breathe? What is the body supposed to do, you know, and when you can conceptualize what the body is supposed to do and you can sort of meditate on the concept of wanting to be and feel like that, then sort of take yourself back to being as natural as possible. So I would say where are our cortisol levels supposed to be if in perfect harmony, you know, how is our lymphatic system supposed to circulate in harmony? How is our heart rate variability supposed to beat? You know, what's the time between our heartbeats in perfect harmony? And so what we're trying to do is conceptualize with our minds what perfect harmony is, what it looks like, what it feels like. And, you know, we're light kind of comes into, into, into perspective, you know, it being a form of electromagnetic energy as well, and bringing the light and the energy and the chi into our bodies and harmonizing ourselves, you know, with the universe, if you will, such that we are as we were, we were meant to be, you know.

Interesting, interesting. Well, it's fascinating stuff. And you've got videos and stuff online. Would the best place be for people who want to like, go and watch some of the stuff that would be your, your Health Defense Training System site. It's get HDFit.com, right?

No, not, not not as of yet. Ben. Yeah, that, that, that, that website's a little bit behind the times. It really has more just about training, you know, bicycle and motorcycle racers and stuff. I think the best place to go right now would be to go to the online magazine which I write, the Coach's Corner. It's called Next Moto Champion. And just basically going to go to nextmotochampion.com and you're going to click on the online magazine. And starting back from December you can start reading my, my Coach's Corner articles in the magazine. I think you can kind of get caught up. My first article was, you know, kind of, kind of a consensus of a lot of, a lot of stuff that just wade came out. But then as I move forward then I have a article on qigong last month and then this month it's not out yet. It's going to be coming out soon. That'll be on VO2. But I definitely talk about how qigong practice and you know, enhanced respirations, kind of what I, what I call it all kind of come together.

So that, and what's the name of the website again?

Well, the magazine is Next Moto Champion. So that's the online magazine and I'm the author of the Coaches.

What would the URL be?

Just, I would say just, you know, it's nextmotochampion.com okay.

Nextmotochampion.com Cool. I'll make sure that I link to that in the shownotes.com or in the show notes. BenGreenfieldFitness.com sure. And that's at BenGreenfieldFitness.com for those of you who want to visit at BenGreenfulFitness.com Q I G O N G so Gary, I want to thank you for your time today and for coming on the show and explaining some of this stuff to us.

Hey, hopefully we can have a follow up and maybe get a little deeper into and I greatly appreciate your time and of course all your listeners.

Awesome. Well folks, this is Ben Greenfield and Gary Daniels signing out from BenGreenfieldFitness.com have a healthy week and thanks for tuning in.

You've been listening to the Bengreenfield Fitness podcast. Go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com for even more cutting edge fitness and performance advice.

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