Eastern Wisdom Meets Western Medicine: 10-Pass Ozone, Peptides, Blood Irradiation, Constitutional Assessments & Much More!

On this episode of the Ben Greenfield Fitness Podcast.

I think that this type of fusion of this particular ancient form of medicine eventually gets you deeper into the interstitial space, deeper into the extracellular matrix in a way that is in your authentic nature. I'm interested in people that are serious enough to train other people because we're at a point in time where we have to raise the consciousness level dramatically. We don't have a lot of time left, so we might as well only deal with the serious.

Health, performance, nutrition, longevity, ancestral living, biohacking, and much more. My name is Ben Greenfield. Welcome to the show. Welp, as I am sometimes prone to do, I like to get out and about every now and again and go visit really smart, smart doctors who are doing really cool things. I met today's guest at a bar in a steakhouse in Vegas at an anti aging convention and I didn't even know he was attending the convention. We sparked up a conversation. He started telling me about these crazy like body typing protocols that he uses to customize diets and lifestyle and medical protocols. And then I found out the dude, just like he's got, he uses ozone and nad and all these really cool, you know, so called biohacks in his protocol as well. Kind of like an east meets west type of approach to amplifying physical and mental performance. He's a whiz kid. He's a whiz kid. He's older than me, but I'm gonna call him a kid anyways. Dr. Avi Herskowitz, you're gonna dig today's show recorded right at his office where I was doing all sorts of crazy stuff in his Batman cave in San Francisco. So check this guy out as you listen. The show notes are going to be@BenGreenfieldFitness.comavi you spell it a H V I E. BenGreenfieldFitness.comavi all right, so here's the deal with what you're about to hear. I will tell the story about how I met this dude in the beginning of the interview that you're about to hear. But I recently had the opportunity to dive into this super interesting kind of EAS wisdom meets modern western medicine, cutting edge world of medical biohacking at the office of this guy named Dr. Avi Herskowitz in Anatara Medicine in San Francisco. This guy's really smart and they did a bunch of stuff on me like a 10 pass ozone and infrared treatment on my blood and photo treatment on my blood and exosomes and all this crazy stuff IV procaine. We just kind of filmed and podcasted the whole thing. Now, Avi, who you're going to hear during this interview along with a person who helps him out with some of the body typing stuff he does. He has a really deep history. He was an associate professor at Johns Hopkins Hospital in Cardiology and worked at the Department of Molecular Immunology and Microbiology over there. He was also in his residency at Einstein Anatomic Pathology and graduated from Einstein Medical School. With a name like Einstein, it must be a medical school for really smart people. He was a clinical professor of medicine at UCFS and the co founder for the Institute for One World Health. And now he practices convergence medicine and regenerative medicine at Anantara Medicine, also known as the San Francisco Stem Cell Treatment Center. And you can go to their website, it's onitaramedicine.com and I'm going to link to everything we Talk about@BenGreenfieldFitness.com Aavi that's BenGreenfieldFitness.com so enjoy today's show. So I'm sitting here in the office of Dr. Avi Herskowitz and I met this guy at an anti aging conference in Las Vegas called a 4M, myself and a great filmmaker named Jeff Hayes. We met up at a steakhouse there to slip into the bar and stuff some rib eye into our face. And there was this fast, fascinating guy who was sitting at the bar with Jeff when I showed up for dinner. And he's an anti aging doc and was there delving into all the different technologies and peptides, everything else that you'll find at this A4M conference. We began to talk and one of the things that intrigued me about him was he began to describe his practice and it was kind of like an east meets west mashup of technologies that I've had the pleasure to engage in the past couple of days. And I'm actually hooked up to. What am I hooked up to right now, Avi, what is this?

Well, you're hooked up both to what we call a multi pass ozone device, which will give you 10 separate treatments in one. So this will be 200cc's of ozone treated 10 times back and forth into your body. And I'll explain the mechanism of action.

And during the the podcast 10 Pass Ozone.

Yeah, 10 Pass Ozone, which should give you a more spectacular effect, particularly the weller off you are, the more repair you're gonna enjoin from that. And then at the same time you're being treated with photodynamic therapy or photonic energy or laser therapy, but intravenously.

My blood is actually passing through this. You got, you guys should see me just visual right now. And I may. We have a photographer in here, so we might publish some photos. If you go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com avi that's a H V I E. That's Dr. Herskowitz, his first name. We'll put some photos of some of these technologies because I've got like tubes coming all out my arms and going off in separate directions and my blood's getting sucked up into a big glass spaceship looking ball for the 10 pass ozone. So it's very cutting edge. But that was, that was not what intrigued me about you in the first place. I didn't know you did all this stuff, but you were talking about this idea of getting my birth date, getting my birth date and my birthplace and my birth time. And it was for the purposes of this thing that you do called constitutional assessment. I've never talked about it before on the show. I've mentioned some Eastern medicine concepts and body typing and eating according to your ayurvedic type and some things like that, but never seen as deep a dive into it as all this paperwork sitting here in my lap. And so sitting with you right now, and we'll get a chance to meet her in a moment, is Tracy, who I know you kind of tag team with on these constitutional assessments. And so if you're listening in right now, what we're going to do is we're going to go through what it means to get a constitutional assessment just based off of where and when you were born. And then we're also, after that, going to dive into some of these technologies that when paired with the type of diet and lifestyle that Avi can recommend based on this constitutional assessment, can really amp up performance and energy and sleep. He's worked with pro athletes. He has some great stories he'll tell you later on. I know in particular about a pro cyclist he was telling me about last night. So that all being said, Avi, where's the best place to start in terms of describing what this whole constitutional assessment thing actually is?

Right. Well, when I first started this practice, excuse me, I wanted to delve into personalized medicine and precision medicine. I come from a molecular background, cardiology and immunology at Hopkins, and you can, those terms are used very loosely. But I also was trained as a five element acupuncturist around 20 years ago, and it sent some of My sickest patients from Hopkins through that system and understood that it has a role to play, that ancient wisdom does have a role to play. And the fusion between ancient wisdoms as well as molecular techniques and is the most important way to go forward in the future of medicine, so to speak. That most of our highest intelligence is not necessarily artificial intelligence. It has to be both fused with predictive biomarkers, with genomics, with proteomics, but also then have higher level of sort of tracking. So ultimately, the system is not just dictated by genes and epigenes is also dictated by patterning and by gating. And so this takes you into the energy world and takes you into the world of my world of five element theory. Tracy was my original five element acupuncturist and teacher. I asked too many questions, so she made me train in it. I was also trained by the person who brought the technique to the West. But it gives you a sense of the importance of this type of principles and then allows you then to understand someone in a deeper individual level. So it's archetyping. It's a form of archetyping.

Yeah, I remember you using that word, archetype.

So you can archetype through ayurvedic medicine. You can archetype through this form of medicine, which was generated in Korea. But I think this is by far the most accurate form that ultimately leads to nutritional. Assess nutritional recommendations that really are energetically best suited or metabolically best suited for you. So it has a lot of side benefits.

I flipped through my paperwork last night, because when I came in last night, I mean, we did other treatments. We did ultraviolet radiation in my blood, we did a little bit of. I know you do exosomes, which we'll do later today, and we could talk a little bit about that. And we even did this far out IV procaine treatment. So a lot of different things. And last night, as we were doing that, I was reading through, I noticed it's not just nutrition. There were things like be sure to make your energy flow upwards after a workout. Finish with the upper body portion, which I did this. You'd be proud of me. And I went to the gym this morning and I finished up with pull ups and push ups and drive the energy upward, rather than finishing on the bike or finishing with squats. And there's a lot of kind of like emotional management, like what to do with anger, what to do with emotions. So do you think Tracy's the best person to walk us through what this assessment actually looks like? Is that how you want to do things.

Yes, that's exactly how I would like it to run. Is just essentially, while this sounds a little bit weird, there are only a few people in the world that know how to do this on a very high level.

Well, I'd never heard of it before.

She's one of them. So we've had now 20 years of experience. Perhaps Tracy can tell a story, but it stems from my own experience with trying to treat my youngest son, who was then one year old. He's now turning 21. And I asked Tracy to train in the system, and now she's become the leading expert in. Certainly in this part of the world, there are a few experts in. In Korea, because it stems from Korean Sasung medicine, so to speak. But I think she's the best person to explain how, really how it's useful to you, but also how it would be useful to your followers in terms of practical reality, the practical benefits of having an assessment like this.

All right, we'll turn things over to Tracy here and come back to Avi for some of the techie stuff here in a little bit. So, Tracy, I have all this paperwork in front of me that I received after giving my place of birth, Lewiston, Idaho, my date of birth, December 20, 1981, my time of birth, which I had to hunt down my mom to get. She had my data stored away somewhere, 7:12pm Standard Time. And so where do you go when you get this information?

Okay, well, so just to start with, I'm fairly techy myself. I'm a biochemist by training and worked in medical research and was a project manager at Genentech before I became avi's acupuncturist. And one of the things I noticed about AVI is if I missed a point with the needle, he'd say it's a little distal and a little lateral. And I thought, man, this guy knows energy. So I said, you need to become a five element acupuncturist. And he did. So one of the things to know is that the Chinese astrology and Chinese medicine come from the same philosophy. It's about the movement of qi. It's about the rising and falling of yin and yang. It's about the cycle of the seasons, the interaction of the five elements, and the eight trigrams of the I Ching. They're all of the same ilk. And what I found through experience with my patients, with people I knew, was that anybody who did the diet that was prescribed for them through their astrology got better. And I'd never seen anything do that. So it's become the focus of my practice. I only do acupuncture on my old clients where we're both attached to each other. So I do this almost exclusively. And I can tell a lot from the person's chart about what the energy looks like in their body. It's almost like looking at a landscape. When you see somebody who has all five elements, you have a lush landscape that contains everything. People are missing elements that shows up as, you know, either a lot of wetness, a lot of dryness, some organs being really dominant. And because it's a Chinese philosophy, only balance is good. Excess is not any better than deficiency. Only balance is good. And so you use food specifically, but also herbs and supplements to balance out what your constitution is. So for someone like you, who has. And I do have your permission to.

Talk about, you, people freaking know that I shove coffee up my butt every Wednesday morning. They'll be fine. We won't get that person about the constitutional assessment.

So you're missing.

Just don't let any life insurance company listen in if I'm constitutionally effed up.

So you're missing elements. So you're missing two elements in a row. And a third element is very, very weak because the two elements before it.

Aren'T there because of when I was born and where I was born and the time I was born.

Yes, exactly. And the way that the Chinese look at this, even from an acupuncture point of view, acupuncture isn't about necessarily healing things. It's about helping you be the authentic person you were meant to be. And Chinese astrology tells you what that authentic person looks like. So for you, it's not surprising that you've become an athlete. From your chart, you have tremendous stamina and you have blocked energy. So what do you think?

I think you call it stubbornness in the chart, let's be fair, there's a.

Little of that, too. But this is blocked energy, and you can have that without stubbornness. And what feels good to somebody with tremendous energy and blocked energy is to move is to move. So you were moving, made you feel better always? Yes, always.

Even before I got into sports, I would dance like a maniac. Every time my mom would put music on, I'd go out to the living room floor and just dance like a maniac.

And that's the other thing. You know, I think you're. Because I've read a couple of your books, and I think you're from a Western standpoint, because biochemist is like being a nutritionist. You've got it down. It's tweaking the things specifically for you. Because some of the things that you're eating build the water energy and build the metal energy or the lung and the kidney. And you already have too much of that. So if you eat foods that are cooling in nature, say pork, what it does is it makes the water energy stronger. It's already too strong. It's blocked. Where does that excess water energy go? It goes and damages your heart. It over controls your heart.

Now, is there a biochemical reason that pork would be considered a cooling food? I mean, like for example, how lemons would be alkalizing or is this something different?

It's something different.

Like the energy of a pig.

Yeah. It's about the energy of the food. And it's about the energy of the food when it's ingested and how it interacts in the stomach. So pork creates coolness in the stomach, but you don't need coolness. You have plenty of it.

Okay.

You need lots of warmth.

What does coolness in the stomach mean?

That's a hard thing to translate into, you know, like a biochemical framework. And I don't know whether I specifically can. The Chinese would say it strengthens water.

Okay.

Which is cool energy that sinks downward.

Okay. I was just curious if cool might be like less enzyme production, less hydrochloric acid, something like that. And warming would be more metabolic activity.

You're a very intuitive guy too. So one of the pieces is like, if I told you watermelon was cooling, would you be surprised?

No, no, of course not.

Because it's extremely cooling.

Yeah.

Where pork is sort of cooling.

Yeah. You don't want pork on a hot summer afternoon.

Oh, you can do pork on a hot summer afternoon. Yeah. Ask everybody in the South.

I guess so. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. And you know that garlic and onions and hot peppers are warming. Ginger's warming. You know, cinnamon is warming. You can tell.

Yeah.

So these are sort of like fine tune to the more subtle things. Like chicken is slightly warming.

But we don't have to go on intuition. I mean, I have like a 10 page here with. You've given me of all the foods that are cooling, all the foods that are neutral and all the foods that are. That are warming.

Yeah. And that system also points out what organs those foods direct to the charts has check marks in certain categories. So all the check marks in the warming category feed the spleen. So unless it says it goes to the heart or something, it goes to the Spleen if it has a check.

Mark and if people want to follow along or go and look at this after the episode and they go to like BenGreenfieldFitness.com Avi, can you email me these as well? And I could put a PDF download of them on the website.

In fact, I have a PDF I can send. Perfect.

And I'll make this available to all of you listening so you can review this list of cooling and neutral and warming foods. So once you get the list of foods and you need to know which.

Ones are right for you. So for you, cooling foods are not helpful and they can be actually detrimental. And that also lung building foods aren't right for you because your lung energy is actually dominates your chart. Okay, Right, Yeah. It's also building the kidney energy. So you have this kind of cold, damp environment and you don't have enough warmth from either the stomach or the spleen or the heart. You know, those are all deficient. And you're also missing wood in your chart. So with all that metal, you attacking the wood element, this is damaging your liver long term. So I think you've already figured out that, you know, you have great stamina, but you don't have good resilience and that you've put an emphasis for yourself on recovery.

I have good resilience, but only because I've hacked it artificially, right? Like I use peptides and I have Normatec boots and infrared and you know, all these things because I figured out, well, my resilience, my bounce back is not great, but I can hack it.

That's what I mean. You know that about yourself. And so eating the right foods will help you not have to hack it so much. So if you start eating foods that, you know, build the organs that you're, or the elements that you're deficient in, this will increase your resilience.

Interesting. Okay, so I'm looking at this list and of course you're saying that I would benefit from spices, garlic, onions, pepper, warming foods. But then there are, there are certain others, like you mentioned pork, that would be considered a cooling food to avoid. How about when you get into things like beverages, for example, you know, coffee versus tea, forms of alcohol, what do you do with beverages?

They're in the same kind of. Anything you put in your mouth and that goes to your stomach is considered food. So for instance, tea, like Camellia sinensis, the black tea, oolong green tea, that is a cooling herb and it's not good for someone of your constitution, but for somebody else like you know, that would be the best thing to have. You're actually better off with coffee. Even though it has rough energy, it's actually better for you because it's warming and it's nature.

This is the best for the balance, especially for the heart. It says your heart is your weakest organ, so you're missing fire and missing wood that supports the fire. And so you say if you drink alcohol, I'm supposed to avoid grapes and barley because those are cooling foods. So no beer, wine, scotch or vermouth. And cocktails like gin and tonic, which I love, bourbon and water or margaritas with no salt would help your heart stay strong. And, you know, I was telling Avi last night, I give everything that I kind of do this little immersive journalism kick with a fair try. And I'm going to actually do this for. I'm committed to trying it out for a month first and then reporting back to my audience on what I find. So I can totally substitute some gin and tonics for the wine. And. But it also, at the end of that list, it says margaritas, parentheses, no salt. Now I'm a salt fiend. What's up with salt?

Salt is very, very cooling, and it builds the kidney, which you don't need.

No kidding.

So every time you eat cooling food, you're over taxing your heart.

Okay, but where do you find the balance? I was thinking about this during the workout today because I sweat copiously. I've had sweat sodium analyses done, and my sweat sodium loss is through the roof. My shirt was drenched after an hour in the gym across the street here this morning, and I. Oh, gosh, there's got to be a balance. You know, it says no salt, but if you're an athlete and you're sweating heavily, there must be some kind of a balance.

You need some salt.

Yeah.

Yeah. But you don't. So one of the issues with the symptoms that you're having, we call that floating fire, which actually comes. Or deficient fire, it actually comes from a deficiency. So what fire. We all have some. If you didn't have some hard energy, you wouldn't be sitting here talking. If you have some heat, but you have a really cold stomach, that heat does not settle downward. It goes upward and it goes out to the surface. So that's why you perspire and that's why you feel flushed, but it's actually coming from the cold stomach. And because your diet is basically really good, Ben, there's very little that you would have to change. Like if you substituted chicken for pork. If you substituted lamb for beef, because beef builds the lung energy, you would be well on your way.

That's interesting. And I noticed some of the foods on here, I just kind of intuitively like, like, I love lamb. I prefer coffee to tea. I love squash and sweet potatoes. And these are all good.

You're gonna have fun.

Nutmeg, cinnamon, lamb, chicken, ginseng, peanuts, honey. I love raw honey. So the things to avoid, the cooling foods would be like the pork, like you mentioned, watermelon, buckwheat, beer, a lot of shoots and sprouts are also cooling. That's interesting because those are often recommended as burdock ribs, as nutrient dense foods. Yeah, very interesting. Okay. Okay.

Some people get cravings for foods that aren't right for them. You know, like you've got a little bit of a thing going with salt. But I promise you, when you start doing the diet, your salt craving will go down.

Okay, this is interesting. Now, what about the exercise component? I thought, you know, I alluded to the fact that it says here I should be focusing on moving the energy upward, kind of focusing more on upper body. You're finishing with upper body. How exactly does that work?

It has to do with the way the energy splits. When you have a lot of cold energy, it tends to sink downward. And because it's not circulating fully, you get warm energy flowing upwards. So you get the split in your energy. And when you start moving your upper body, it brings the circulation because your energy, most of your energy is in the going into this kidney and sinking downward into your legs. So, for instance, swimming is preferential for you than bicycling, because bicycling is almost entirely lower body. Running, of course, is more full bodied. But you can. I think Avi has talked about a patient that.

Yeah, tell us about that cyclist that you worked with. You were telling me last night. This is intriguing, Avi.

Right. Well, this cyclist was a master cyclist number three or four in the nation for a number of years, you know, has his daily diary for decades now for training and then for competition. And he was. Became familiar with the diet and ultimately decided to do it. So ultimately did the diet, which he had your constitution, in fact.

And.

But he was a master cyclist, so he wanted to become champion finally. And so he did the one year cycle with the diet and the changing of his exercise regime to doing upper body first, then lower body, then upper body again. So doing two thirds and one third upper body focus. So he did less training on the cycle, more training on upper body than he had accustomed to. And then he became national champion.

Now, is he doing the diet recommendations as well?

Yes.

Okay, so the primary thing you would notice is feeling less drained, faster recovery, more resilience. If you're this type, what is it called, you say? A lesser yin type.

Yes.

Okay.

But you can also have CNS effects. Like when Tracy uses the concept of floating fire. It floats up to your head and you become ruminating and you become difficulty with getting into deeper sleep. So as you settle your energy down in a more balanced fashion, you'll get less of that floating fire.

So would this mean, like, it, like when you go to bed? Because one thing I've actually found to settle me down a little bit is this whole body scan where you kind of contract your toes and then relax and contract your feet and contract your legs and allow yourself to become more heavy. But would that be something that would kind of draw some of that energy down from the top of the body towards the legs as you.

Well, for you, it's going to be. Once you get on the. The warming side, you'll be able to balance that energy without doing that. You'll actually just. You won't need to do it. It'll just. It'll just. You'll just go to sleep and be in more homeostatic balance. Now, for example, when you see people in the hot tub all the time. Okay.

Yeah.

So if you're my archetype, which is the opposite of yours, it's much easier for me to go into the hot tub because all I have to do is put my legs in the hot tub. And then I feel amazingly calm because I have to work my lower body more than my upper body. And. And for those of you, like you, you'll end up going into the hot tub fully immersed up into your neck. Because that'll make you feel better.

Yeah.

Because you need your upper body to be.

Yeah. Oh, even in the sauna, I love, love it. You know, I do the sauna and I do the cold, and I've talked a lot in the show about cold thermogenesis, and I've probably never said this on the show before, but I do struggle with the cold. Like it's an uphill battle for me. I think that's why I'm attracted to. To sometimes doing the cold showers and the cold soaks, because I get attracted to anything that I have a hard time with to conquer. Right. And so I figured out how via breath work and focus and little bits of meditation and some Wim Hof breathing and things like this, I can really tackle the cold tubs or a cold shower or a cold soak, but the sauna, you can put that thing at 200 degrees and I won't even ask twice. I step in and absolutely love it.

So if, when I go into the cold plunge, you'll see, everyone will notice me because I'm the weird guy that has my legs out and my butt and my upper body in. Because I can do it. I can, I can exercise. I can be in the cold plunge for an extra 10 minutes that way without, without bothering to freeze my lower part of my body. Because it's just more, it's just more natural for me. I don't, I can't explain it. And I don't think, I think Tracy is right. There is no biochemical explanation that we can figure out. I think that if I think that this type of fusion of this particular ancient form of medicine eventually gets you deeper into the interstitial space, deeper into the extracellular matrix, deeper into the communications network, that nutrients have to flow into cells in a more efficient way, in a way that is in your authentic nature.

Yeah.

So, and it's over and above needling someone and direct redirecting their pathways, it's more fundamental. And the interesting thing about adults is we have some placebo effects, but children, and in fact babies don't. So when you, when you take a younger child and you modify their diet according to this, so many of the symptoms go away very quickly and more quickly than for us now when we're taught if you were allowed to eat everything that you were suited to eat, that you like to eat in real nature, a hundred years ago you would have gravitated to the foods that do you the best. But right now, everyone that goes to school goes to a birthday party, they're going to be barraged by, you know, terrible food and Dunkin Donuts and so on. So.

Well, or even if you go to say that there's a Whole Foods across the street, you know, I could go in there and buy a bunch of healthy cooling food, but I could also at the same time buy a bunch of warming foods.

Just want you to know that I never met you before when I first met you. And so I just noticed you had two things on your, on your plate. You had beef and pork. And I said, well, I hope this guy has a cool, needs to be made cool because he's world class athlete. And I'm sure that's the case. And yet you were, I sort of estimated you around 35 at the time. And I said, well, in the 30s you can overcome with other compensatory methods, mechanisms, things. But as you get into your 40s and 50s, this becomes more fundamental. And we've treated now at least 10, 15,000 people with this technology, I call it technology, but this archetypal form of medicine for 20 years now. So we have long term follow up and most of the folks that use it have used it for the last 20 years and most folks have had their kids typed and so on. So in most families you have two different types. You know, I know my family. Two of us were cooling and two of us were warming. In the entity that I ran with 200 employees with a Gates foundation enterprise that we ran downtown here, we had about 120 people in the warming category. There's a, there's a bit more of in the population in your category and about 80 in the cooling. And then we had neutral food in the center and we all had a blast. But all of them that still in contact with me are still using it.

Amazing. I do have another question about this chart and it kind of relates to lifestyle. I suppose you get to a point in the printout here where you talk about breaks. You say, I don't know where the page is. Do you know where I'm talking about, Tracy? Yeah. What's a break?

Break is an incompatibility between two of the astrological animals in your. Sometimes like when you go to Chinese restaurants and you look at the placemats, it says, don't marry this person. Well, you have an incompatibility within you. So what this means is that people who have breaks in their charts when they get upset tend to be more emotionally upset than the average person. They tend to hang on to it a little bit longer. Anything that's in the chart is not considered a fault because you know you were born with it, but it is considered an opportunity. So breaks provide you the opportunity to be sensitive to emotional things and to learn how to manage your emotions without being critical of yourself.

Yeah.

To say I'm angry and yet not to act out on on it. And not to also get angry at yourself for being angry.

Yeah. And it says you can be stubborn, which makes you successful in your business and athletic ventures, but doesn't always serve you. And I love this tip. Practice responding to suggestions with maybe which I need to do more of. More maybe. Yeah, I actually did that this morning. Someone did one of those cold email introductions to somebody I'm supposed to meet and have to connect with and I just wrote back, and I said, I'll go check them out, rather than that knee jerk reaction of, yeah, where do you live? Let's get together, let's hop on the phone this Saturday.

Yeah. And it's important to note that stubbornness is a desire for freedom. You know, you can't control me kind of thing. But of course, you are free. You don't have to follow someone's advice. Right. You're free to do that. And what a knee jerk response to somebody is, is a mechanical reaction, and it's the opposite of freedom. So maybe gives you the breath to step back and go, oh, okay, I don't have to do this. I'll decide if it's right for me. Yeah, right.

Yeah. Interesting. Well, I know that we want to delve into some of these technologies also that you pair with this, but is there anything else you guys want to tell people about this constitutional assessment?

What's right for Ben Greenfield isn't right for everyone, because you have a listener who will need the opposite diet.

Listeners who like pork, and maybe they actually should eat it.

And maybe they should eat it. So the only. Only thing they need to do is find out what's right for them. Because what's right for you is for you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So as a cardiologist, when I do recommend people with this cooling archetype to eat pork, their cholesterol numbers will improve.

Interesting.

Now, when salt is cooling for me and not too cooling for you, it's good for me, it's not good for you. If a patient like me gets hypertension, they're not sensitive to reducing their salt intake. Patients that develop hypertension with your archetype are sensitive to salt reduction.

Interesting.

So it has physiological meaning. And I think that when I have a drawing that I have about us as where we're in the center, as our system biology is in the center and what we bring to the table, people say, well, I'm only bringing my genes, and I'm bringing my generational genetics as well. But this is not genomics. But you are bringing the time and place of birth and how it impacts on all the epigenetics that you. You put yourself in front of.

Yeah.

So it has a lifelong impact, which is fascinating.

Well, like I said, I'm gonna give this thing a try, and I'll report back to people. You know, I experiment with the carnivore diet, and I did the liver cleanse diet in Switzerland and messed around with all this stuff. So I'll. I'll be. I'LL be reporting back to folks on how all this goes. So Tracy, thanks for joining us for this part of the show. Yeah, it was, it was really great. And I guess I do have one other question regarding this. You guys can do this from afar, right? People need to come to San Francisco to do this or no, they can just give their birth date, etc. And they go to your website to learn more about that.

Yes.

Okay. All right, so I'll put a link to the website in the show notes@bengreenfieldfitness.com avi a h v I E and what we're gonna do now is transition a little bit from the east to the west. So as promised, what we're going to do now is move on and talk about all the beep, boop, beeping whirring sounds that you hear in the background right now. And that is what's called the, what do you call it, the 10 pass ozone AVI.

So we, it has different names. One is called multi pass. We typically use it the healthier you are. You can start with 10 pass as we started with you today. That's the typical regime for optimization and repair. It's also called hyperbaric oxygen. Even though it's not a hyperbaric chamber, it acts through a different mechanism of action. So right now you're on, I think pass number nine.

And meaning my blood has passed through there nine times so far.

Right. So you've had 200cc or 220cc's of blood ozonated at a high concentration eight times now passing through your system. So you've had around 1.9 liters of blood treated. Holy cow. Now in our history, the Italians that have done most of the basic research in ozone have suggested in animal models that this dose is too high. But in humans we see it's the opposite. It's a paradoxical effect and it's more anti inflammatory and more reparative. So basically when ozone is infused into that conical device, it instantaneously changes from O3 to O2 and O. So it retains an oxygen, a negative charge and it releases ozonides, these that O minus immediately is lipophilic. So it loves cell membranes. So it immediately inserts itself into your white cells and your red blood cells in that conical thing. And then it's going to be infused into you. Today we infuse it without going first through UV light. Yesterday when we gave you a standard ozone treatment with one pass, we passed it through UV light to get an accentuation of both Repair as well as antimicrobial effects. But in this case, it's going to enter your body and then it has a more global impact. So it has, even though it's only affecting a very small number of cells in the conical device, it has a global impact on microcirculation, on oxygen Transport, on the RBC's ability to translate to transfer oxygen through the lungs. And it has a massive effect on all the NRF2 pathways, anti inflammatory pathways, and suppressing the NF kappa B pro inflammatory pathways.

So how would someone feel if they were to go and do something like this? Like what would be the expected feeling? Would they tired afterwards? Would they be energized? Would they sleep better? Like, why would someone actually go do 10 pass ozone if they didn't have Lyme or mold or mycotoxins or something else going on that I know ozone therapy is often used for?

Yeah, but I think the main use for this is for optimization and longevity. The limitation of ozone is that it has a relatively short half life. So it only lasts in your system 48 to 72 hours. And unless you build a reserve. So in this case with 10 passes, we typically treat people 10 times. So we give 10, 10 passes and that builds your reserve for the full year.

That's similar to like nad, where if you really want to jump start your NAD levels, you get usually about four or five consecutive days of around 1,000 milligrams of NAD. And then you would move on and use patches or supplements like NMN or NR supplements afterwards to keep those levels up. So 10 pass ozone, you do 10 treatments in a row of 10 pass. So 100 passes total.

That's correct. When you're dealing with fundamentals, pillars, as I called it yesterday with you, pillars of optimization, pillars of repair, pillars of aging, of which NAD is part one pillar and ozone is another pillar. In my opinion, each has its strengths and weaknesses. You have to build a reserve. A single treatment is going to make you feel, in this case, the less toxic you are, the more up you'll feel. You'll feel clarity, you'll feel energy, you'll feel, you know, you'll, you'll develop your stamina, heart, and you will repair faster. But if you're have a high toxic load, you will feel sleepy and you will detox. Now, if you have Lyme or mold, those patients are the ones that have so called Herx reactions. Although we specialize in the center on how to mitigate those negative responses, I don't believe that detoxification responses that Are severe, are informative on any level.

So at the same time that you're doing this 10 pass ozone, to my right here is a different machine with all sorts of cables coming out of it. And what is this one?

Yeah, we call it the Octopus. It's the, it's, it's we. The other name for it is the Weber laser. And in this case it's providing you with multiple colors of laser light. The first one that you received intravenously. This is the unique part of this machine is that it has the ability to have its fiber optic cable tip out of the IV cannula and then you will see the color in your, under your skin. So you first had infrared, then you had red, now you having green. So if we turn the lights out, you'll see that you had a green dot right underneath.

Right underneath my skin here where the needle is plugged in. Interesting.

So each one gets, gets 20 minutes and then after that you get the blue. And then there's also a UV light device as well. UV light frequency. So each one of the lights has different characteristics. So for example, the intuitive one is blue is cooling. You know, that's an anti inflammatory I think. So that would be best for you after the workout. In this case, you know, you'd come in after your spartan championship run in two weeks time and you say I want to disappear.

Well more like after a brutal competition because after workout you wouldn't want to quell the response.

After that seven, ten hour thing that you're going to do, you'd benefit from all the lights. But some of them are more focused towards cellular repair and some of them are more focused towards anti inflammatory effects. Now. Now it was also developed for cancer care patients because you can use a photoactivating agent and then localize that agent to a given mass and then photo activate that mass in that location. But for the optimization folks, again you have to develop a reserve and this will accentuate the effects of your ozone 10 pass. And I was telling you last night that my only problem of treating you last night with this, even though we had difficulty with the machine, was that you probably wouldn't sleep for a day or two afterwards. It has a.

Gives you that much energy.

Gives you that much energy. Now I think if you had intravenous CoQ10, intravenous resveratrol, intravenous, other forms of therapy, you can mimic this effect because it doesn't the body, the system doesn't matter. As long as you're talking to mitochondrial function and you're dealing with you're going deep, deep, deep down. So all of these technologies, including the procaine that we gave you yesterday, which I'll delve into in a minute, are deeply vasodilatory and they go down to the microcirculation level on the interstitial space location. So without the communications happening on that level, you're never going to get cellular repair. You'll get energy flows and you'll get effect, but you won't get the true, the complete benefit.

Now last night when I was here, as you mentioned, there was also the UV radiation that's different than this infrared radiation that I'm getting right now or the infrared train I'm getting right now. What's the difference between the UV radiation that you do with the blood and this infrared light treatment?

Right, the UV photo treatment. UV radiation has twofold. One is activation. It activates your white cells and red cells de novo. So now your white cells and red cells that now contain ozone, O minus and then that's already penetrated deeply into their system. But then, so one of, so the UVA has that characteristic and then the other UV light that's present in that particular device is a pure anti infective. So we all carrying a lot of viral genomes in our system. I think you told me that you may be carrying Giardia in your system.

Oh, a few weeks ago. Yeah.

I got Giardia because. So in that setting, high dose vitamin C at 75 gram level, plus the UV light will be able to support you eradicating it more quickly.

Interesting. So in addition to all these treatments, you know, and this was a hot topic at a 4M as well, you do some peptides and last night we were talking about a range of different peptides for mitochondrial enhancements, for longevity, etc. Are there particular peptides that you're pretty fond of using in your clinic or ones that you think fly under the radar, that you wish more people knew about?

Yeah. So thinking about scaling peptides into the general population for prevention, I think the two peptides that come immediately to mind are BPC157 and thymosin alpha 1. As an immunologist, I'd say that we are as a society in a state of immune chronic activation. So we've lost the ability to modulate. Now that's for many different reasons. We've lost circadian rhythms, we've lost, we have a tremendous toxic load from the, from the food supply. Our gene, our biomes have been modified to such an extent that they're no Longer, I think protective. But we're in the state of chronic immune activation, so modulation, you know. So what's the number one drug in the world today? It's Humira. Humira is an immunosuppressive drug.

This is the number one drug.

Really?

It's the number one drug in the world?

Yes, because it's used for autoimmune conditions which are so prevalent.

But autoimmune conditions are pro inflammatory states. And I can assure you that most of the patients that are treated in that particular way could be handled in a more natural way and sort of not require a drug like that that is suppressive. It's not modulatory, it's ultimately suppressive so that you'll develop over years lymphoma and tuberculosis.

Well, rapamycin is also suppressive, is it not?

That's correct. And in high doses it's not an appropriate solution for us. On the anti aging side, the question is whether low dose rapamycin is an appropriate medication for us. And that from my perspective, the word is still out on that. I know there are many patients, many people that are taking it.

Yeah, there's some folks using like dosage and cycling regimens that are, that are smaller doses cycling on and off.

Except to say that one of the benefits of us in the, in our medicine, our clinic over the last eight years of treating the very ill populations is that one of the ill populations that we have are the advanced cancer patients. So we monitor all of our optimization patients and performance patients with what we call liquid biopsies. So these are. This concept is that when you develop a tumor, even before it gets to 1 millimeter in size, it's already spilling over into the bloodstream. So you can measure the circulating tumor cells in your blood. These tests are available with several vendors in Europe, but they're not available yet here. The FDA is now screening two different companies.

Is that the liquid biopsy that you pulled on me for colon cancer?

Yes. Yes.

Yeah, yeah. And the reason we did that was I just have a very high genetic susceptibility to it and have had several family members develop colon cancer.

Yes. And I was telling you that if you find you have circulate. If someone finds that they have circulating cells and their total body scans are clean, typically they are. We can turn the negative and the positive into a negative by using natural means. But more importantly, if you're going to take rapamycin, you should know what you, your status is. Because one of the downsides is that it can through the mtor Mechanism, it can proliferate.

So you would want to get a liquid biopsy for these cancer markers prior to embarking upon like a rapamycin protocol for longevity.

Yeah. And of course, since the overwhelming majority of us over the age of six men over the age of 65 will develop some form of prostate cancer in our lives, I would want to know whether I had prostate cancer circulating in my body that will eventually emerge into a tumor or a nodule that's identified by an MRI a few years from now. Because I don't want to accelerate that process.

Now what you're saying is that rather than suppressing immune system activity, peptides such as BPC157 and thymosin alpha would modulate.

So when you take an autoimmune patient, the autoimmune patients are suppressed by the typical drugs. The modulatory approach seems to be as effective or more effective for lasting remission. So the concept is that I've been teaching for a number of years is conceptually, we have quadrillion chemical reactions and trillions of cells. And in terms of chemokines and cytokines, there's at least 500 of them that we now know. So the complexity is beyond belief. So this is beyond recognition. So just providing a suppressive versus a peptide that used to modulate your entire thymus gland, it seems to be a safe and effective way to reset. It takes time. It's not, you know, one of the benefits of starting an immunosuppressive drug is that you may feel better in a week, but of course you'll have all the complications. But this takes more time.

So people are using BPC and thymosin alpha, not to be confused with TB thymus and beta, which is more of like something you would use to repair actin myosin fibers for an injury. You're using thymosin alpha as an immunomodulatory and you're actually. People are, for example, injecting that subcutaneous long term.

That's correct. And my thing is that if you're going to use it, use it for a six month period. Now we have a lot of experience with lyme patients, with autoimmune patients, with patients post chemotherapy and so on. They all seem to do well. Although, you know, when I say all, nothing works 100% of the time. So it's. But having something that works 80% of the time is a very effective treatment. So when you're looking at fundamentals, we all have to, we all understand that if you're Depleted in something, you should fix it. That's sort of obvious. That's now called, you know, personalized medicine. Well, that's pretty basic stuff. You've already done that many times over. You may need to modulate how much amino acids you take, given what you need to accomplish in the next few weeks. But ultimately, you know, your, your communications network is intact. Well, communications network is not just hormones. It's not just testosterone, thyroid and adrenal function. It is your immune system. So that's the thing that I've been focusing on for a long time. So the, the experiment that's caught my attention throughout my career was when I was at Hopkins running an NIH lab in a cellular immunology facility where I was responsible for doing the immunology of transplant rejection and viruses and so on. But we treated a hundred strains of different mice with the same virus and got 12 different patterns, anywhere from death to no illness whatsoever to something in the middle where the mice looked fine and then developed autoimmunity afterwards, post viral autoimmunity afterwards. And then that shows you that we are all fundamentally different on the immunogenetic side. When we repeated that study running a cardiac institute 15 years later and realized the patients that developed complications after cardiac surgery and after prolonged surgery, these were cardiac patients. The patients that did poorly were high TNF producers on the genetic side. So they had an immunogenicity issue to the plastic, to the blood. Seeing the plastic, and when you look at the mice and you say, well, I give them one virus and some of them survive and some of them die, I give them another virus, the pattern is completely different. So the level of complexity for me to be able to say, if I'm a pharma scientist, I understand what's going on here is, I think, very naive and relatively, it's just way too early to say. So if I can give him a modulatory event, I can give ozone, I can give UV light, I can give nad, I can make your mitochondria a bit more efficient. Let the system take care of itself is the fundamental, I think, lesson that I've learned over the last 40 years.

Yeah, and last night we were talking about certain peptides that could be used for cognition. You know, I mentioned that stack that I recently podcasted with Dr. William Seeds about, with Dihexa and Cortagen and Penny Allen and intranasal C Max. And then you began to talk about some of these unique, unique neural stacks. I've spoken with the folks at Qualia before and talked about their supplement mind, which I use sometimes as a natural.