Episode #127: Why Saturated Fat Won’t Kill You But Vegetable Oil Will

In this podcast, why saturated fat isn't bad and vegetable oil could kill you what's the difference between fructose in fruit and high fructose corn syrup? How to use hemp protein Is it okay to take Advil before exercising? Advice from an 80 year old guy who raced an Ironman. What's the difference between threshold and VO2 max? And do special breathing techniques make you perform better?

Welcome to the BenGreenfieldFitness.com podcast. We provide you with free exercise, nutrition, weight loss, triathlon and wellness advice from the top fitness experts in the nation. So whether you're an Ironman triathlete or you're just trying to shed a few pounds, get ready for non run of the mill cutting edge content from BenGreenfieldFitness.com.

Hey folks, Ben Greenfield here. And in today's featured topic, I've got Udo Erasmus coming on. This is a guy who knows more about fat than just about anybody on the planet. He's written the book Fats that Heal, Fats that Kill. So I would highly recommend that if you want to understand this whole fat debate a little bit more, that you listen into that interview. We have a Q and A and a very important announcement about the Q and A that you shouldn't miss if you're a regular listener to the podcast or somebody who wants to ask questions. Questions for the podcast and of course, just a few special announcements before we rock and roll. So let's jump right in to this Week's content from BenGreenfieldFitness.com.

Special Announcements.

Folks, I am no longer taking Questions for the BenGreenfieldFitness.com podcast via email. I've instead set up a form on the website and that form can be found on the Show Notes for any podcast episode. So whenever you have a question, just go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com, click on the show notes. So for example, you would click on the show notes for this episode. This is episode number 127 and down by the Q and A there is a little form that you can fill out. So that will allow you to effectively ask me a question and have that question get directed straight into a Q and A folder that I am able to view. The reason I'm doing that is because I was literally getting hundreds of email questions each week and it was getting very difficult for me to navigate through, filter those questions and effectively be able to take care of you. So now we are using that form. The only exception to that rule is that if you have the free Ben Greenfield Fitness iPhone app. You can continue to ask your questions through that iPhone app. And then of course, you can also ask Your questions toll free 877-209-9439 or you can Skype me at username Pacific Fit. The other announcement that I have for you is that I will be speaking in Sacramento, California on January 22nd at a health event that's going to be a Saturday evening and I will put a link in the show notes so this episode, episode number 127, if you're interested in attending that event, in meeting me, or in listening to a speech that I'm going to be giving on how to make your health more prosperous in 2011. So let's go ahead and move on to this week's Listener Q and A. Get the inside edge from Ben Greenfield Fitness delivered straight to your phone. Just text the word Fitness to 411247 and you'll instantly get exclusive VIP discounts and insider tips that no one else will ever see except you. Do it now. Text the word Fitness to 411247 and you'll be in Ben's VIP Text Club for free.

Listener q and a.

So the first question for this week comes through from listener Patrick, who says, is there any validity to the claim that taking in natural sugars is somehow less damaging to your body than processed high fructose corn syrup or refined sugars? I've heard that it has to do with what your body recognizes as food, but haven't heard any convincing evidence that your body knows the difference. And so, to make this question a little bit more specific, let's go ahead and delve in and look at the difference between a natural sugar, like the type of sugar you'd get from, say, fruit, versus the type of sugar you'd get from high fructose corn syrup. Because, as most of you probably know, fructose is the primary sugar in fruit. And of course, fructose is also a component of high fructose corn syrup. Fructose itself is basically what's referred to as a simple sugar. There's three simple sugars that are in our diets or in our foods or in nature, and those are glucose, galactose, and fructose. Now, fructose is interesting because it is processed by the human body a little bit different than glucose, and the reason for that is because fructose gets absorbed by the intestine the same way as the other sugars that you consume do, and it gets basically transported from the intestine via a special type of transport protein into your bloodstream.

But the interesting thing is that this.

Process is not regulated by the hormone insulin. When you consume something like glucose, insulin is released by your pancreas, and it either will transport the glucose into your liver, where the glucose could be stored as carbohydrate or converted into fat, or it'll transport that glucose into your muscles. Fructose, however, is not something that is controlled by insulin. And so when you consume fructose, you don't get that same insulin release. Now, the reason that that might be a bad thing for some people is because if you don't get that insulin release and you don't get that surge in insulin after consuming a meal that contains fructose, you don't get the same type of appetite suppressing effect as you would from a meal that is causing that release in insulin and the storage of the blood sugars. In addition, fructose has been associated with a high conversion in the liver into what are called triacylglycerols or triglycerides, which are circulating fatty acids. And so they can really have an effect in terms of your weight gain as well. Now, of course, that's only an issue for you if you're sitting down to a meal of, say, four apples or eight tablespoons of high fructose corn syrup in most cases. Most people, especially physically active people, don't need to worry or fret too much about moderate amounts of fructose intake. But the question is, what is the difference between getting your fructose from something like fruit and something like high fructose corn syrup? And although the actual fructose molecule per se is very similar between high fructose corn syrup and the fruit that you would get in, say, something like an apple, there are other elements in a piece of fruit that go way beyond the high fructose corn syrup. Specifically, you are getting fiber, you're getting water, you're getting phytonutrients, and, and you're getting the synergistic interaction of all the components in that fruit, and you take something as simple as the fiber in that fruit, and that's going to automatically slightly lower the glycemic index or the rate at which that fructose is going to be released into the bloodstream. And so you get a little bit more stabilization of blood sugar levels when you consume your fructose from a fiber and water and phytonutrient containing source versus consuming your fructose from a high fructose corn syrup source. Now, one of the bigger issues to me for high fructose corn syrup is the corn part of high fructose corn syrup. Because most of the corn that you're going to find in the high fructose corn syrup that's in processed foods or preserved foods is going to be a genetically modified corn. And there are a lot of unknowns out there when it comes to genetic modification and its potential effect on the human body. I wouldn't necessarily come right out and say that you're going to get cancer, you're going to grow a third eyeball. But I personally try to steer clear of as many genetically modified agricultural products as possible simply because I don't really see a lot of research out there proving that they're going to be safe to consume. I don't see a lot of research out there that proves the opposite. But I like to play it on the safe side and not consume a lot of genetically modified food. So you're getting that, that corn component of high fructose corn syrup. And then there are a lot of issues with high fructose corn syrup in terms of the damage that it has been shown to cause. For example, the consumption of high fructose corn syrup is linked to diabetes and insulin resistance. It's highly correlative to obesity and deposition of especially abdominal based belly fat fat cells. It's linked to high blood pressure. It's linked to high triglycerides, which I mentioned because it's so efficiently converted into triglycerides in the liver. Furthermore, it can cause damage to the liver, producing something called fatty liver disease. It can produce a high amount of uric acid in the blood, which can lead to uric acid crystals forming in your joints. And the name for that is gout. A lot of people who drink a lot of soda, especially with high fructose corn syrup, increase the risk of gout. High fructose corn syrup can potentially have detectable levels of mercury in it, and that's because they use caustic soda to separate the corn starch from the kernel when they make the corn part of high fructose corn syrup. And that caustic soda actually contains traces of mercury. High fructose corn syrup consumption is linked to kidney disease, it's linked to memory impairment, it's linked to pancreatic tumors. So there's a lot of issues that have been found with high fructose corn syrup that have not been found with fruit, usually because again, the other components that you're consuming along with the fructose in fruit are balancing or stabilizing the way that the fructose in fruit is metabolized. And in addition, you're not getting a factory produced, chemically produced fructose derivative. You're rather getting a naturally grown fructose developed in the fruit as it was growing. So fructose for anyone is something that I do encourage to consume only in moderation, just because of the weight loss effect that it can have. I generally just have a rule that I try and limit myself to eating no high fructose corn syrup. I look at every label and don't eat any high fructose corn syrup. And then I limit myself to about the equivalent of two pieces of fresh, raw fruit. Perfect day. If I were a diabetic, I would not be eating that much fruit. I would probably be eating closer to one a day. Furthermore, if I wanted to lose weight, one of the things that I would cut from my diet would be fruit consumption. And then finally, some fruit doesn't get absorbed in the small intestine. It can pass through and get absorbed in the large intestine, the fructose from that, and that can cause some bloating and indigestion, especially before exercise. So if you're someone who's consuming like dates, figs, fruit juice, fruits, fructose sources, things like that, and you're experiencing bloating or indigestion during exercise, you may want to consider switching to something other than fruit or a fructose source for your workout meal. It's a good question. Listener Mare asks, I was wondering, what's a good place to start with hemp protein? I'm staring down hemp seed oil, shelled hemp seeds, and hemp protein powder. I've seen your wife Jessa, mix up the stuff with oil, but is that good for smoothies too? I can't buy all these hemp products at the moment, so where would you start? Well, first of all, the reason that we like to use hemp is hemp's pretty cool stuff. Not only does it have a high amount of those omega 3 fatty acids that we'll talk about later on in the podcast interview with Udo Rasmus, but it's also a great source of amino acids as well. It's got 20 of the essential amino acids in it, including 10 of them that the body can't produce itself. And of course, the amino acids are your building blocks for protein and are necessary to not only your muscle tissue, but also a healthy immune system and healthy hormone formation. So it's one of those things that's nice to have around as a good source to grab for amino acids. So, for example, the living protein stuff that I encourage anybody who's wanting a vegan or vegetarian source of protein consume contains hemp as one of its primary sources of protein. Living protein is something that you can easily get over@pacificfit.net but suppose you didn't want like a powder based hemp protein powder. You can also get a hemp oil and you can use that the same way that you could use like a flax oil. You can use hemp oil in something like salad dressing. For example, if you have a salad dressing recipe and it's calling for a vegetable oil, such as a canola oil or sunflower oil or safflower oil, you could use a hemp oil instead and get a lot of those or a better ratio of the Omega 3s, and you'd also get some of those amino acids that come along with hemp. The seed I always recommend with hemp seeds or flaxseeds, even though if you eat them raw, you're getting a lot of the fiber effects. So you're moving food through your body, you're improving digestion, you're slowing down the absorption of fats, the release of sugars. But when you consume a seed whole, you miss out on a lot of the nutrients that are inside the seed, such as the oils and the amino acids. So I would encourage you to grind hemp and add it to something like a smoothie. Or you could also use the oil like I mentioned earlier. You can also, if you did want to use the hemp seeds. For example, my wife makes a salad, a quinoa salad, and she basically just mixes up quinoa with vegetables like fresh chopped parsley and carrots, a little bit of mint, a little cilantro, some green onions. You can put some crushed red pepper flakes in there or some black pepper, typically a little bit of lime juice, a little bit of sea salt. You can put a little bit of maple syrup on there if you want a bit of a sweetener, that's a good way to sweeten this particular meal. And then you put about a half cup of hemp seed and a cup or so of quinoa, and that's a great meal that's going to stick to your ribs and be very high in protein, high in fat. You know what? I will, because I just rattled all that off very quickly, I will put that recipe in the show notes for you on a great way to use hemp seeds. So grind the hemp, throw it in smoothies, use the oil and salad dressings, try the protein in smoothies or take the hemp seeds and put them in a quinoa type of salad. And those would be some great ways to start with hemp. The next question is from listener Bruce. And Bruce says, a few weeks ago I had a bit of a head cold. I was taking Advil cold and sinus to keep my symptoms minimized. And I noticed that when I went for a run, I felt faster, lighter, and like I could run forever. I thought it might be the pseudoephedrine in the medication. So once I was over the cold, I tried going for a run. About 20 minutes after taking one capsule of Advil cold and sinus and sure enough, I got that energy boost again. My question is, I know Sudafedrine is a controlled medication in Canada, where I live, likely due to the meth lab springing up and has been on and off the banned list for the Olympics, but is it safe to exercise when taking it? Is there any reason why someone shouldn't pop a couple Advil before a road race, shinny game or even a marathon to get that? Any energy boost? Good question. So should you reach for the Advil pseudoephedrine when we're talking about the pseudoephedrine part of Advil? Basically the way that that works is it causes what's called vasoconstriction, which is a narrowing of the blood vessels and a release of norepinephrine or noradrenaline from your neurons. And when you release that noradrenaline, you can get a feeling of increased energy. You also get those constricted blood vessels, however, which can increase blood pressure and that can be an issue during hard and heavy exercise. So while you are going to get that energy high, you may also experience that high blood pressure. And consistent use of pseudoephedrine and consistent exercise with that high blood pressure could potentially be dangerous. Some people have some GI effects like gastric irritation from taking a pseudoephedrine containing compound. And then the last thing that you may want to be careful of is anxiety and increased stress, nervousness, irritability when you take something like that. But the pseudoephedrine, like if you were to just hand me pseudoephedrine, tell me to go for a run, I'm not going to be that concerned. I mean, your blood pressure is going to go up anyways. And while I would think twice about taking it before a marathon, just a straight up pseudoephedrine, I wouldn't be super Concerned about. What I would be more concerned about would be the other components of Advil, specifically the non steroidal anti inflammatory drug component or ibuprofen component of Advil, because that blocks out prostaglandins. And prostaglandins cause pain, so that's good if it blocks out pain. But prostaglandins also protect your stomach lining. So when you take a non steroidal anti inflammatory drug, it can cause stomach upset or it can cause gastrointestinal bleeding. And, and that's a big issue. So they have studied nonsteroidal anti inflammatory drug use in athletes, found very little performance benefit, and found that by masking pain you could increase your risk of injury, which makes sense. So one study found that when people took about 400 milligrams of ibuprofen before exercise, they reduced their perception of muscle soreness, but it didn't actually prevent muscle cell injury. And the way that they looked at that was they looked at levels of creatine kinase, which is a protein that indicates muscle inflammation, that actually increased more in the group that was taking the ibuprofen than the group that didn't. So the group that took the ibuprofen did more damage to their bodies during the exercise session. They also studied the use of this stuff during Ironman triathlon. And that caused some pretty big problems, really. Increased risk of something called exertional hyponatremia, which indicates altered kidney function. And basically that's because of poor fluid transport and vasoconstriction leading to dehydration and a drop in pressure at the kidneys and kidney failure. And then they also did a study on ibuprofen use in the 100 mile Western states trail running race. And what they found was that the groups that took ibuprofen, as they found in this other study, had much higher blood levels of inflammatory markers and muscle damage. They found the same level of soreness across the groups. No difference in the race times, no difference in the rating of perceived exertion. So basically, once again, ibuprofen was just found to cause increased damage. The last thing that you may want to consider is that with that decrease in prostaglandins and protection in the stomach, you can get what's called a state of toxicity or gastric toxicity. So you get a lot of leaking of the other things that you're consuming into your bloodstream along with the ibuprofen. And once again increase your risk to go into toxic shock, especially during something like an ironman or a Marathon. So pseudoephedrine, not that big of a deal. The other components in Advil, something to worry about. So be careful. Alright, Next question is from Bill. Bill says, I was wondering if you ever commented before on lou Hollander, an 80 year old Kona Ironman finisher. What are your thoughts on his supplement recommendations? Well, Lou Hollander is this 80 year old guy. If you watch the NBC coverage of the Ironman Triathlon in Hawaii, amazing guy, finished the race and he's a motivational speaker and he does have a website where he gives out supplement recommendations, albeit when I saw him at Ironman he was drinking a Red Bull, which is not all that great for your red blood cells while you're exercising, but that's a whole different can of worms. Anyways, so you asked me what I think about his supplements, so I went to his website and looked at what his suggested supplements for the aging athlete actually are. And here's what he says. When you wake up, you drink this cocktail. And his cocktail is a greens supplement mixed with a magnesium supplement mixed with vitamin C mixed with glutamine mixed with cod liver oil mixed with glucosamine chondroitin. So he mixes that in a glass of orange juice, drinks it down. Yeah, not too bad. I actually discourage people from taking a high fiber supplement along with their oil because that fiber can wrap around the oil and decrease absorption of it a little bit. So I'd be careful taking a lot of high fiber supplements with like your fish oil or your cod liver oil and try and split those up at a different time during the day. But ultimately, yeah, not bad for a morning cocktail. The only other thing I'd recommend is that you, if you, if he were taking this magnesium supplement in the morning, take it before bed instead because it'll help you sleep. And then he takes it looks like a mix of a bunch of different amino acids in the morning. Great. Those are gonna help decrease a lot of muscle breakdown. He's got lysine, taurine, methionine, you know I don't want to turn into a pharmacist here, just rattling off all these different supplements, but he takes amino acids in the morning, so. Great. Not a problem with that during the day. Takes ginkgo biloba, great for the brain, couple garlic tablets, good for the GI tract and blood pressure. He takes some folic acid, another vitamin B complex. Looks like he takes selenium, saw palmetto. So he's getting some good action for his prostate there. Coenzyme Q10, which I recommend everyone take no matter what, whether you're an athlete or non athlete, Coenzyme Q10 is a great supplement to take. I use race caps from Hammer nutrition. He takes 5,000 microgram sublingual drops of vitamin B and then before bed he takes more amino acids and more vitamin B. He's taking a lot of vitamin B. But the reason that he's probably taking all that vitamin B is just because it really is essential to cellular metabolism and it can amp up your energy levels quite a bit if you're taking it throughout the day. It's water soluble, not really an over toxicity issue. So yeah, I mean most of the stuff he's taken is actually pretty good. I'd question how much you're gonna spend if you jump into this supplement protocol. That's why I don't know if anybody listened to the interview I did with James Audio from Bionic Supermodel. But the Bionic Supermodel has a lot of this stuff in there and it's not cheap. I think it's like 150 bucks a month for that supplementation protocol. I'm guessing this one that he's listing on his website is pretty similar. But you know, if you've got 150 bucks a month to burn and you want to feel great and look great and live longer and do the type of stuff he's doing when you're 80, this stuff would actually help. Most of it's a pretty good little protocol. So great question. And yeah, this guy, Lou Hollander is doing the right thing when it comes to aging. So if you're an aging male and you have questions for me or you want me to help you with your supplement protocol, just shoot me an email BenGreenfieldFitness.com and I'll kind of help you put together something like Lou's got together. So next question is from Kelsey. Kelsey says, what's the difference between an interval workout using Threshold vs VO2 Max? This is a pretty easy question to answer, Kelsey. Threshold. When you hear that word thrown around, what threshold is, is there is a point during exercise at which your body begins to run a little bit low on oxygen, meaning that your muscles are using up more oxygen than your lungs or your cardiovascular system is actually able to deliver to your muscles. And at that point your muscles begin to produce lactic acid. And lactic acid not only makes your muscles burn, but it also makes you need to breathe harder. Because when you exhale carbon dioxide, that's one of the ways that you buffer or break down lactic acid more Quickly. So at threshold, your muscles start to burn from the lactic acid, you start to breathe a lot harder, and generally exercise becomes markedly less comfortable. That is what threshold is. And when you exercise at threshold, not only do you burn a lot of calories, but you also train your body to build up less lactic acid or to shift to producing all that lactic acid or using all that oxygen at a higher intensity. So the VO2 max is different than the threshold. Typically, VO2 max occurs anywhere from about 10 to 20 heart rate beats above where your threshold occurs. And what VO2 max is, is that's the maximum rate of oxygen absorption that you can get to. So, so you've gotten past the point where your muscles are burning and you're breathing hard now, you're sucking in as much air as possible, you're burning close to 100% carbohydrate, your heart is very, very close to maximum capacity, and you are working at a 100, even a 110% all out, red hot intensity. When I've done VO2 max tests on people in my lab, I've never seen them be able to sustain VO2 max for more than two minutes. Now, a typical workout to improve your threshold would be, for example, to go out and do five, five minute efforts with your legs burning and you would rest five minutes or fully recover between each of those efforts. A workout to improve VO2 max might be ten 30 second all out efforts with four minutes of rest between each of those 30 second all out efforts. So there's a different way to train each of these separate systems as well. But that's the idea between the threshold and the VO2 Max. And any good training program is going to have certain components of the program that train both of those elements of fitness. Although in my opinion, for people like triathletes or marathoners or swimmers, working out at threshold is more important than working out at VO2 max. So the final question here is from Sean, and Sean says, just wondering if you are familiar with the breathing techniques from, from something called Breath Play. And what breath Play is is Breath Play is. You can read about it@breakplay.com but it's basically a series of CDs that you purchase and they provide you with coaching in certain breathing tempos and breathing patterns. So you learn these exercises and breathing techniques that, that supposedly are going to help you breathe more deeply, stay more relaxed, especially during exercise, and essentially improve your performance due to the increased amount of oxygen that you're able to consume by breathing deeper and the improved relaxation of your inspiratory and expiratory muscles. So the philosophy behind breath play makes sense. I've personally never used the CDs. If you've used the CDs, then leave a comment or tell us your experience on the comments to the show Notes for episode number 127 but it makes sense because if you learn, whether via yoga or via breath play or via pure concentration on your part, to do things like breathe in through your nose and then breathe out through slightly pursed lips to slightly flare your nostrils when you breathe to control the rhythm of your breathing so that you are, for example, breathing out or exhaling during the most difficult phases of exercise, for example on foot strike when you're running or as you press up when you're bench pressing or squatting. If you learn how to use your diaphragm when you breathe, for example, breathe from deep within the back of your mouth or breathe within your belly or your belly button, you're going to turn yourself into a higher oxygen consuming machine no matter what. And if it takes a couple CDs to teach you how to do that versus a yoga class, versus just, you know, sitting at your desk focusing on breathing, then, then great. I think that it could be very effective. So that's my thoughts on the breath play. And again, if you've used them, let me know. Leave a comment so that we can see your experience. So those are all the questions for this week. Remember, if you have a question to use the new form@BenGreenfieldFitness.com I'm not saying forum, I'm saying form F O R M and you can find that form above the listener questions for any of the podcast show notes. So if you go to any of the podcast episodes, click on the episodes, scroll down and you can ask your question. And that will be a very, very good way to do things going forward. The only other way to ask your question would be to call it in or to ask your question using the free iPhone app. So we're going to have a special message and then move into this week's feature.

Featured Topic did you know you can get personalized nutrition and fitness consulting from Ben Greenfield? No matter who you are, if you want to run a triathlon, lose a few pounds, reinvent your diet, or have Ben create a training program or nutrition plan that's customized to you? Here's what you need to do. Visit tinyurl.com helpfromben that's tinyurl.com helpfromben Ben will personally contact you within 40, 48 hours. What are you waiting for? Visit tinyurl.com helpfromBen today and get the body and results you've always wanted. Featured Topic.

Hey folks, this is Ben Greenfield and online today I have Udo Erasmus and aside from the book Fats that Heal, Fats that that Kill, and we will put a link to that book for you in the show notes because it's a fantastic read. Udo has quite a few accomplishments. He has a PhD in nutrition and many years of research in nutrition that actually went into that book, Fats that Heal, Fats that Kill. But he's recognized as an international authority on fats, oils, cholesterol, you name it. If it has to do with dietary fat, he really knows that topic quite well. And back in the 80s he actually began to pioneer technology for pressing and producing edible oils that were a little bit different than the type of oils.

That most folks use as a vegetable oil source for.

What Udo and I are going to be talking about today is fat in general and dietary fat and also some of the unique of the type of oil that Udo recommends that people prioritize in their diet. So Udo, thank you for coming on the call today.

Well, my pleasure, Ben.

Well, the first thing that I'd like to start into because we have highlighted before the importance of essential fatty acids on this show, but I thought we'd start off with a bang and talk for a second about the link between saturated fat and cardiovascular disease, because I think a lot of people find that to be confusing, whether or not going out and eating marbly beef and butter and maybe dairy with saturated fats in it and cheese is going to be bad for you from a cardiovascular perspective or not. So what's your take on saturated fats.

And the link between them and cardiovascular.

Disease that seems to be constantly reported by the usda.

Okay. And there's complete misrepresentation based on misunderstanding. And let me explain why I say.

That there are more cardiovascular problems come from the hydrogenated fats, the trans fatty acids, the margarines, the shortenings, the junk food fats you find in junk foods, the correlation to cardio from those is much higher than that for saturated fats. Having said that, here's the saturated fat story. Saturated fats will make your platelets more sticky. That means they predispose you or they raise your risk for heart attack, stroke or embolism based on clogged arteries. And they make you more insulin resistant, which means they take you in the direction of diabetes. That's what the doctors have reported. And that's why they say buy your steak, have the fat on, cut the fat off. You know, don't eat that stuff. Here's what the mistake is. The Omega 3s, which are kind of my specialty, newest essential nutrient, which every cell in the body needs, they are an essential nutrient. An essential fatty acid were only established to be essential in 1981. Those, when you increase them and optimize them, they actually make your plate looks less sticky and they make you more insulin sensitive. So they work against the problems that saturated fats can cause. If you bring in and optimize your omega 3s, you can eat saturated fats till the cows come home and never have a cardiovascular problem. So what is being blamed on the saturated fats should actually be blamed on lack of an essential nutrient that 99.9% of the population doesn't get enough of. That actually works to prevent the problems that saturated fats cause when omega 3s are deficient in the diet. So this is really an omega 3 deficiency issue, not a saturated fat issue.

Now I know that you're probably exaggerating when you say eating saturated fat until the cows come home, but I'm curious about what type of levels we're talking about because if you look at some the USDA's recommendations, and I know you're up there in Canada, but yeah, where is this doctor? Down here they're telling us that we should, depending on total calorie intake, shoot for anywhere between about 20 to 30 grams of saturated fat or about less than 10% of the total daily calorie intake. Now what you're saying is, you know, if you had enough omega 3s, you.

Could eat more than that.

How much more?

Well, you know, you can go up to 60% of calories from fats and never die of fat related disease, provided a the fats are not damaged, we eat a lot of damaged fats, and B that they have enough omega 3 and enough omega 6 in the right ratio together you can go up 60%. Like Inuit. Did you know the doctors actually give eponec kids a DIET that is 80% of calories from saturated fats for two or three years and sometimes that cures the epilepsy, changes behavior, changes mental function, slows them down, decreases the epilepsy and often cures it. So you can go up to 80% of calories from saturated fats for two or three years and still not die of a fat related disease. That whole thing is complete garbage.

The garbage you mentioned, whether or not the fat was actually damaged. Now, is it possible to damage a saturated fat? I know it's a very stable fat that you could, you know, for example, leave it, leave it out in the heat or in the sunlight and it wouldn't damage as quickly as, say, like a vegetable oil. But how do you damage a saturated fat? What are some damaged saturated fat sources that people might be exposed to?

The saturated fats are more stable than the liquid oils. But when you fry fats or oils, you increase inflammation and you increase cancer, both when it's just overheated fat or when it's overheated starch or when it's overheated protein. All three of them increase cancer and increase inflammation risk. Frying is the no no. That's the big no no. The more damaged fats are the liquid ones because they're actually more sensitive. Cooking oils are damaged. A million damaged molecules for every one of the body's 60 trillion cells in a tablespoon of cooking oil that is 1% damaged by being treated with Drano, then window washing acid, then bleached and then heated to frying temperature. Plus, those oils contain pesticides, and those also inhibit life functions and performance and all of that. So I say to people, your body needs an oil change just like the car. You want to get off the dirty oils that wreck the engine, and you want to get on clean oils that make everything work smooth.

Now what about, say, coconut oil or butter? If you're going to cook, you got to cook in something. How much damage, how much risk are people taking on if they're frying foods in those oils?

Less than liquid oils, but more than cooking in water. The preferred from a health perspective and performance perspective is cook in water, add good oils after, because you don't really. Coconut and butter don't get your essential fatty acids. Every cell needs those. What you do is you cook in water, Then when it comes off the fire, you can put good Omega 6s, you know, low oil. That's what I use. You can put it in hot soup, on steamed vegetables, just not in the frying pan. I tell people, take your frying pan, turn it upside down, hit yourself on the side of the head with it so it re hurts, and then throw it out because the thing is going to cause you a lot of pain.

So you're talking about like steaming and boiling in forms of cooking like that, huh?

Yeah.

Pressure cook. Yeah, that's how people cooked 100 years ago, before the oil industry was invented. That's only been around for just 110 years. That's how people cooked. Even olive oil was not used to fry.

They cooked in water, dumped the water.

Put the olive oil on. Why did they do it? Flavor enhancement. Better absorption of nutrients. And you didn't wreck the food and you didn't wreck the oil.

Now, I'd like to ask you a little bit. We've talked, like I mentioned, about essential fatty acids before on this show. And so I don't want to insult people's intelligence by going over the elementary of what an essential fatty acid is. But I have in front of me a bottle of your 369 blend oil. And it's something that I've been taking on a regular basis. For example, I just had lunch, and my lunch in celebration of my upcoming interview with you was an avocado and a little bit of this oil with some homemade flaxseed crackers and a couple of eggs. And this oil has an interesting blend. You've got flax oil, sunflower, sesame, coconut, primrose, rice bran, oat, germs, soy, lecithin. All these oils blended together. And I know you probably didn't just haphazardly throw these in here. So why do you put an oil like this together the way that you do?

Well, you do not probably know that, but in 1986. Well, 1986, I wrote a book. It's now called Fats that Heal, fats that kill. 1986, I also developed flax oil. Everybody knows it, but I became omega 6 deficient in flax oil because it has a lot of three but not enough six. I got dry eyes, skipped heartbeats, arthritis like pain and finger joints and thin, papery skin. Those are classic omega 6 deficiency symptoms. And I fixed those by eating sunflower seeds. But it got me thinking. We can't just sell flax oil and we can't just use cooking oils that are damaged. What would it take to make one oil that has all the good stuff and none of the bad stuff in it? That's why we made that the ratio between omega 3 and 6 is the most effective for performance and for health. Because the omega 3s we high grade the omega 3s because they're the ones that are too low in everybody's diet. But you want your omega 6s also made with health in mind. You don't want to go back to the cooking oil and eat dirty omega 6s because they will inhibit body function. So the idea was to. Because people would always say to me, this is a complicated area. Every seed has different fatty Acids. Every seed has different amount of fat and there's good ones and they're saturated, unsaturated, blah, blah, blah. This is complicated. Is there one thing I can take that gets me all the good stuff that I need from fats and none of the bad stuff that I should avoid? The blend was made to answer that question and make it simple for people.

Gotcha. Now, I gotta be totally honest with you. I take a fish oil because this oil of yours that I have here on my table doesn't have any EPA and DHA in it. And those are, of course, very important in terms of our cell membranes and their role as prostaglandins and things of that nature. So should somebody also take a fish oil or. Why don't you have EPA and DHA in your blend?

Because I know in the marketplace the fish oil industry tells you the body can't convert. That's Maybe true for 8 to 10% of the population that don't convert. Well, that do better with the supplement. The rest of us do if we have enough starting materials. Problem is, 99.9% of the population doesn't get enough starting material to do the conversion of omega 3s. But even if the body could not convert any of the Ala, Omega 3 in Udo's oil, you would still need it. Because you're talking about two things. One is the food fat foundation and the other one is the supplement. Fish oil is a supplement.

Get what?

About three grams a day, if you follow doctor's orders, never more than five. Often only one. And a ton of people on this planet, including 300 million Hindus, have never eaten fish or taken fish oil. And their brains, their eyeballs and their sperm work just as well as ours do. But they have vegetable sources of ALA and they must therefore be doing the conversion. Otherwise they couldn't do the conversion. They'd be deaf. Sorry. They'd be dumb like imbeciles, idiots, blind and sterile. And you look at India, you know that they're firing on all cylinders.

Even.

If you didn't convert. And for a moment, let's just say Udo's oil cannot be converted into fish oil. Not true. But let's say that for a minute, you still need it. Because it's supposed to replace not fish oils, but the cooking oils that are damaged, of which you use about 2, 3, 4 tablespoons a day at 14 grams per tablespoon, so usually around 50 grams, which is about half of the fat intake per day, which is about 100 grams, plus or minus cooking Oils and those we replace with oodozole, because udozoil is made with health in mind, has both Omega 3 and 6, has them in the right ratio. It's packaged in glass so you don't end up with plastic in your oil. And that is a healthy alternative to the damaged cooking oils in plastic, the ones that have been treated with drain or washing acid, bleached and fried before they go in the bottle, that are associated with more cancer, more inflammation and certain forms of cardiovascular disease. This is a bad cooking oil replacement, a food oil foundation. And everybody needs that foundation made with health in mind if they want to be healthy. Some people can get more benefit if they add supplement to that, but nobody can be healthy on supplement alone. And that's what needs to be understood. More problems come from bad foundation because there's so much of it than come from whether you get or don't get a supplement. Supplement cannot fix what's wrong with the foundation. A better foundation is the only way to fix that. That's why the blend, you can use supplement on top of it, but not instead of it. That's ridiculous.

Now, what type of nutritional deficiency would I need to have if I were, say, unable to convert an Udo's oil into an EPA or dha? You mentioned that if you had the proper nutrition or the proper elements in place that you could do that conversion. Can someone be in a state of deficiency that would put them so that they aren't able to convert?

If you have no start material, then you have no conversion.

What would the starting material be?

Alpha linolenic acid.

Okay, all right, got it.

The one in flax and the one that makes up 50% of udazole. We recommend a tablespoon per 50 pounds of body weight per day. Some athletes use twice that much. We also recommend that the people who do the long races, like you got triathletes and marathoners that instead of carb loading for the race, they carb deplete and run the race on fat in their body and tank up on omega 3s because they turn on the fat.

Burning mechanism in the body really, really effectively. And the people who've taken me up on my challenge, because that goes a little bit against what we think we ought to do, come back and they say it was awesome. I never hit the wall, never had that, that time that you get when you run out of carbs on these long races. And I had stable energy and at the end of it I felt like I could keep running.

Yeah, you know, I find it Interesting that, you know, they've just started to do more and more studies that replace carbohydrate based drinks with certain percentages of protein. Keep the two drinks at the same number of calories, and they've found that the same performance was reached on the drink that was replaced partially with protein. Not a lot of studies like that I think have been done yet with fat.

It's interesting, but Ben, if you replace the calories with good fats and we've done a couple of studies on Udo's oil. Now within a month of starting on a tablespoon for 50 pounds of body weight per day of the blends stamina in athletes. And we've worked with elite athletes with strength and endurance athletes. 40 to 60% increase in stamina just on the oil. There is nothing that does that better than creatine.

Interesting.

One of the guys actually said if I give creatine a 10, I'd have to give udos oil a 15. Then they don't have the joint problems. Their injuries heal in a third to half the time. Explosive powers through the roof. Of course, the triathletes don't need that so much. But this is the big guys that, you know, strong men, their recovery time after their heavy workouts down from three days to one day. The intervals, the rest between sets down from five minutes to two minutes. And at the end of the sets that they do because they have all worked out, you know, right. All worked out. They follow a particular program. They said, I could have done two or three more sets.

Wow.

Now, how much increased stamina you get when you get the right oils undamaged with preponderant in omega 3s and in plant omega 3s and you use enough of them.

Why is it that you wouldn't want to heat this oil or why is it that you'd want to make sure that you use some type of oil that's that's been gently extracted?

Okay. Well, the more effective the oil is for energy production, and omega 3s are about five times more effective than omega 6s, even though both are essential for functions in the body. The more effective the oil is in the body, the more chemically sensitive it is to damage by light, oxygen and heat. And so to make these oils high in omega 3s, you have to protect it from light, oxygen and heat. That's why they go in brown glass bottles. That's why the bottle goes in the box to keep the light out. That's why they're refrigerated at the factory in Shipping if it's more than two weeks. So when we ship it to Europe and Asia, it's actually shipped refrigerated. That's why it's in the refrigerators, in the health food stores, in the gyms. That's why you keep it refrigerated at home. And that's why you never use it for frying. Because frying damages oil by light, oxygen and heat, working on them all at the same time. But you only add it to food after the food comes off the fire to enhance flavors and improve nutrient absorption.

Gotcha.

This is how I say it to people. Oils are vindictive. They treat you like you treat them. If you treat oils with care, they will take care of your health. If you damage them, they will damage your health. And if you fry, they will fry your health. So you don't want to do that if health.

Now I noticed that depends.

Oh, go ahead.

Sorry you broke up for a second performance.

You know, the performance cannot be better than the machine that's performing and the fuel that it uses to burn to create that performance.

You have listed as one of the ingredients in here, and this is something that I know concerns some people when they see it, soy lecithin. Now why is it that you have soy lecithin as an ingredient in this oil?

Because it makes the oil easier to emulsify, which makes it easier to digest, which makes it easier to absorb. And because it's in there, the athlete tell us within half an hour to an hour of taking their oil glug, they find that they have an increase. They actually feel the increase in the energy. Now the problem with soy, it has some thyroid inhibiting issues, it has some allergy issues. Those do not. The allergy is the protein. The protein does not end up in the lecithin. The thyroid inhibitors end up in the bean. They don't end up in the lecithin. The way that it's made, it's actually taken out of the sea into oil soluble. And most of these problems in soybeans are not oil soluble molecules. And then the lecithin is taken out of the oil soluble with water. So it's the process by which it's made. Separate it from all of this stuff that people have concerns about. And then the other thing you got to remember, a billion Chinese can't be entirely wrong. Soybean as a protein or a meat extender rather than a meat replacement, then you don't run into those problems.

Now I know and I've seen and a lot of the people Listening to this show are endurance athletes or triathletes. I've seen advertisements in Triathlete magazine for this stuff, being kind of like you mentioned as kind of like that oil that keeps your car's engine going. Now, one of the things that I'm a little bit concerned about because the one area I haven't really started using this oil for is before I go to a race or before I go to a hard competition, because I'm concerned about gastric emptying and digestion of fats taking a longer period of time or maybe causing some stomach distress. How does that actually work in terms of using something like a fat for competition and not experiencing a stomachache?

Doctor, are you talking about drinking oil while you're racing?

Dr.

I'm more talking about, let's say I'm going to take in a pre workout meal or pre race meal two hours before and I take in two to three tablespoons of this stuff. I know as an athlete that fat takes a longer time to digest than carbohydrates.

So how does that work?

Well, the Omega 3s, I call them the fat burning fire starter. What you run the race on, if you're smart, you run the race on the fat already in your body. The Omega 3s make it easier for your body to burn that fat. I figured out in numbers, if you carb load, you carb load about a pound 400 grams, you can run about 20 miles on that. If you're 8% body weight, which is relatively lean already and you weigh 150 pounds, you've got 12 pounds of fat in the body. If you ran half of that down, because you'd be dead. If you ran all of it down, because you can't have a body that's alive without any fat in it. But if you ran half of it now, you were down to 4% body fat, you could run 300 miles on that. So fat has always been the body's major fuel. And carbs, you can carb low because carbs are actually dangerous because of all the insulin, high blood sugar, low blood sugar, the cravings, the, you know, the falling asleep, the driving off the road that comes from when your blood sugar goes down. And the fact that they turn on fat burning and inhibit, sorry, they turn on fat per production and they inhibit fat burning in the body.

What about higher intensities?

What about them?

Well, you know, like a sprint triathlon versus an ultra marathon where you're moving.

At a slower pace at a lower heart rate.

Have you in the experience that you've seen as a nutritionist or an advisor or in the studies that you've seen, seen any differences between fat, fat use or digestibility of fat at that intensity versus a lower intensity?

Yes, it's not about the digestibility. It's that when you run more than 20 miles or the equivalent of the energy you need for 20 miles, fats are your fuel of preference. If you run the short races, you can run them on carbs, but you can't run long ones on carbs unless you keep eating carbs, but you actually run them better and you have more stable energy. And you have a higher level of energy when you run the entire long race on body fat plus omega 3s that you can load before the race, that you can take small amounts during the race. A teaspoon gets you 9 calories, right? Whereas a teaspoon of carbs will only get you four. So you don't need the bulk food. So you can do that during the race. And to take a teaspoon of oil on an empty stomach every, whatever it is, every few miles, however you pace, that actually works. And there isn't a problem with getting them digested. Our athletes say within a half hour to an hour, they notice they spike in energy level.

How do they keep the oil, how do they keep the oil cool during these events where they're taking it on a regular basis?

Well, you can keep the oil warm for a certain time if you took a bottle along. And how long's the longest race?

Well, let's say for example, like a 10 hour long Ironman event, it's not.

A problem at all. Ten hours is peanuts. You can have them unrefrigerated for two weeks, closed, but they don't go that fast. It's just that air gets in and then gradually the process begins. But for any of it, for a 10 hour race, even a two day race, even a three, four day race, you'd be okay.

Okay.

So if I were to throw some of this stuff in a flask, I could take it out with me on say like a long bike ride on.

A warm day and I wouldn't be.

Doing more damage than good.

No.

And what I would do is when I take the oil, you know, when I take a swig of oil, I would swish it around in my mouth and get it really mixed with saliva and it becomes quite liquid and starts to taste sweet and then swallow it. And I think it just makes it easier to digest. And really it's not a digestive load. I think the Digestive load usually comes from eating too much oil at any one time or from having liver toxicity, because sometimes people feel tired or heavy or nauseous when they take a lot of oil on an empty stomach. That's the liver saying that doesn't mean they don't digest them, absorb them. It means they did digest and absorb them. And the liver is saying, don't give me so much so quick.

Gotcha. Gotcha.

So that's why I recommend you mix it in food and spread it out over the course of the day.

Okay.

Well, folks, but Honestly, in the 60s, we were told saturated fat is the best fuel. In the 80s, they figured out that carbs get you more energy than saturated fats. We're just at the beginning in the 2000s now to show that Omega 3 and 6 rich balanced oils not damaged by processing get you more energy than carbs, too.

Yeah, And I've definitely noticed a difference since I've skewed the fat percentage of.

My diet way up.

Now you've written this.

Oh, go ahead.

Plus, they get you a long list of other health benefits, whereas carbs get you a long list of problems, including wrinkling and aging, insulin spikes, aging faster, taking minerals out of bones and teeth, feeding bacteria and viruses and cancer cells, and then getting the blood sugar and mood swings and getting you to fall asleep in class if you're a kid or on the road and driving off the road if you're a truck driver who's eating high carb meals, then sitting in the truck.

Yeah, yeah.

And the omega 3s and 6s are essential. There are no essential carbs. Omega 3s and 6s get you. Every cell in the body needs them. They get you a raft of benefits in every part of the body as a side effect of taking enough to maximize their energy level.

Absolutely.

Well, you're a true expert on fats, and I really appreciate the time that you've given us today, this book that you've written. I would highly recommend that folks check out fats that heal, fats that kill. And for those of you who are wondering about the oil that we were just talking about, this 369 blend, pretty simple to just keep in your refrigerator. And like Udo said, it's in this glass bottle. I'll make sure that I put a link in the show notes to be able to get that. And also to Udo's book. Book. And what were you saying?

Yeah, you find it in the fridge in the health food stores. It's under Oudo's choice because I also work with enzymes, probiotics and fiber and greens, mostly for digestion. And it's under Udo's Choice and it's called Udo's Oil. It has my picture on it and it's in a bron glass bottle, in a box, in the fridge, in the supplement section, in the health food stores or in the gyms.

Yep. So people, fat phobia could be killing you and it could be really limiting your performance. So open up your mind and don't. Don't fear fat. Don't fear fat.

Yes, yes, exactly.

Udo, thank you for your time today.

And for coming on the call.

Ben, it's my pleasure. I hope somebody can benefit from the information.

Absolutely. So, folks, that is Udo Erasmus. I will put a link to his book Fats that Heal, Fats that Kill in the show notes to this episode, episode number 127. I will also put a link to the Udo 369 oil that I personally take. The last thing is please remember to leave this show a ranking in itunes. If you are able to just go to itunes and it's pretty easy, type in Ben Greenfield or Ben Greenfield Fitness. You'll be able to find the show and leave it a ranking. It really helps out. So that is all for this week from BenGreenfieldFitness.com we're going to finish with a final special message and I wish you a wonderful week.

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