Getting Ripped With Yoga, Using Isometrics To Build Massive Athleticism, Five Things You Must Do Every Morning & More!

In this episode of the Ben Greenfield.

Fitness show, we can talk a lot more about the technique just because the poses are lasting longer as well. And then because the poses last longer, we're also getting nearer to that point of muscle fatigue. So you can actually build muscle and get stronger. We just really focus on the technique and the mental benefits will come. And if you notice that you are also getting something spiritual out of it, that's great, but we just don't mention it. I don't need to mention it for it to happen. Even when we're doing postures, the emphasis is very much still on the breath and keeping your cool, so to speak.

He's an expert in human performance and nutrition, voted America's top personal trainer and one of the globe's most influential people in health and fitness. His show provides you with everything you need to optimize physical and mental performance. He is Ben Greenfield.

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Hey, what's up? It's Ben Greenfield. And I remember distinctly, it was like two years ago that I was at this health and yoga e conference and this guy at the conference was just like a beast, this big, huge, like six foot six dude, basketball player. And I asked him what his training routine was and he said, do yoga. I'm like, all right, well, that's good for perhaps your flexibility and your blood pressure and relaxation and breathing. But what, like, what kind of strength training program do you do? What kind of cardio program do you do? He said, I just do yoga and I play basketball. This guy was literally huge. So I remember walking away from that conversation thinking that he was probably full of it. And then I met another guy about a month later at the Paleo FX conference. And at PaleoFX conference, they had like this obstacle course set up where you'd blast through this high intensity, powerful obstacle course in two minutes. And I remember getting my butt kicked by about, I think it was 10, 12 seconds. Something significant for a two minute course by this guy, this, this young bearded gentleman who was also ripped. And I wound up talking to him afterwards. His name was Dean Pullman, and it turns out that he too, primarily just does yoga. And so now I was incredibly intrigued. So I talked with Dean and wound up getting him on a podcast episode. You may have heard this podcast episode. It occurred about a year and a half ago. And in that episode, we talk about how Dean uses yoga to get ripped and powerful and athletic. And that's most of what he does. And he's actually designed a special form of yoga. So what Dean has. If you listen to that podcast episode and I'll link to it in the show notes to this episode, you can just go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com mobility project to access the show notes for this episode. But Dean creates yoga for people that, as he puts it, want the physical benefits of yoga without the lifestyle change of becoming a hippie. Pushing a giant grocery shopping cart full of kale through whole Foods. You hold the postures a lot longer. You place more emphasis on the technique instead of the spiritual. The workouts are more catered to the physical needs of guys, although his workouts are also accessible to women. And Dean was a former collegiate lacrosse player who decided that he wanted to use yoga to become a better athlete. And so he designed this crazy yoga program that actually develops athleticism, not just, say, like flexibility or relaxation or serene thoughts. And so today we're going to talk a little bit about that form of yoga, but also more about mobility, because Dean's got some pretty cool stuff he's been doing lately with different mobility techniques. And he's a very outside the box thinker, as you may already know based on my introduction. So get ready to learn more about how you can use yoga to get ripped, to get fit, and also how to increase mobility in new ways. Dean, welcome to the show, man.

Wow, that was quite the introduction, wasn't it? Thanks for having me, Ben.

I practice. That was good practice. So anyways, man, the first question I have for you, though, just so folks can get to know you a little bit better, get inside your head. A lot of yogis that I talk to, I mean, people in general, but people who do yoga especially, they tend to have these elaborate morning routines. And I'm curious, are you just a guy who gets up, crushes some eggs and steak, man, flow yoga style and just jumps into the day, or do you have a specific routine that you follow?

Well, first off, I think I'm going to disappoint you because I'm not a terribly weird yoga guy. I'm weird on my own, you know, in my own terms, in my own regard, but not terribly weird yoga style. If I just got up and ate eggs and jumped into my routine or jumped into my day, probably a pretty crappy day. But morning routines are something that I've worked on a lot for the last two years, and actually we just talked about this maybe a week ago or so, but I've tried almost everything for morning routines. I've tried cold showers and going for runs and doing intense workouts and doing regular yoga every morning. 60 minutes. And just a lot of different. A lot of miracle morning type stuff. I'm sure you guys have heard of some of that. And what's really stuck.

What did you say miracle morning?

Yeah, the miracle morning. This is more geared toward success and business people.

But I figured what, what, what is the miracle morning?

The miracle morning. And I'm not an expert on this, I don't think I even know all the components, but it involves affirmations, visualizations, 10 minutes of intense exercise. There's a few other things, but it's, it's a. I mean, it's a. It's nothing special in terms of a morning routine, but it's geared more towards salespeople as opposed to athletes, so.

Interesting.

Yes.

I don't want any part of that then.

I don't.

I don't need a morning routine for real estate agents. I want something for athletes. No, I'm just kidding.

Nowhere near weird enough for you.

Probably just insulted everybody who does miracle morning anyways, though, so. So you do something miracle morning esque.

Well, I've tried out all that stuff and some of it sticks, but my morning routine wasn't really based on this, but I've tried a lot of those aspects. But the five. The five routines that have stuck with me and I've gotten into a nice even. Well, a nice odd but memorable number have been things that I've done in my morning routines, in the different variation of morning routines that I've done over the last couple of years, and the ones that just kind of stick. So I like to get outside when I wake up. I make sure that I get outside. And living in Texas, it makes it really easy because you can always go outside. It's not too cold, and I spend at least 15 minutes outside. I have a dog, so that makes it easy that I have to go outside.

Can I, Can I interrupt you for a second?

Absolutely.

First of all, I think that anybody like I used to have that, that I'm gonna call you out, actually. I used to have that mindset that you couldn't go outside in the winter or in the snow. And I started doing it like, I started putting on boots and going outside in the snow. I'd go outside and like my boxer shorts. You'd be surprised at the amount of. Not just UVA and UVB radiation that can get through gray clouds. And they've actually done some research on this. Like you. Even when the sun isn't directly hitting your skin, you get a decent amount of vitamin D exposure and you also get a decent amount of, kind of like that jump starting of your circadian rhythm, you know, when light hits the, the photoreceptors in your eyes. But I think everybody should, should go out of their way to just be comfortable trying to step outside. Just try for like 30 days. No matter what the weather's like, step outside no matter what it is outside. Rain, snowing or sunny or whatever. The concept of getting outside in the morning, Dean, is fantastic. I think too many people don't get that burst of fresh air and sunlight and negative ions and earthing and grounding and all those benefits that you get in the morning. But I'd take it one step further and say, you know, sun, rain, snow, just like the postal service, right? Outside.

Yeah, I mean, I mean, 200 years ago we were living outside, right? We don't need to go that far back when we were living outside. You know, you don't have to be in 68 degrees to function. So I think that we forget that a lot. You know, your body was made to survive in winter. We've got people living in Wisconsin right now and Washington, so.

Yeah, yeah, well, some people's bodies were made to survive in winter. I guess it depends. I know there are, there are some folks who have, you know, done the genetic testing thing and come from, say, a Southeast Asian or a sub Saharan African population. And they might be fighting an uphill battle when it comes to trudging outside in the snow for a morning yoga routine. But yeah, you're right. People, people need environmental fluctuation. So what's number two, man?

Number two is solitude. So it doesn't have to necessarily be meditation, it doesn't have to be visualization or, or a mental process. Some sort of. Some sort. I just have to be by myself with my own thoughts, with nobody talking to me. So I don't want to, you know, I can spend a few minutes talking to people in the morning, but as far as functioning during the day or that morning, I need to have at least 10 to 15 minutes by myself and I can meditate during that time. I can do visualizations, I can run through my day, I can journal. But it just has to be me by myself without someone else bugging me.

Yeah, I hear you on that. And as a parent, I can tell you right now My best mornings are when I get up long before my kids are up. If I get up and my wife is up and my kids are up and people are already kind of like. And this sounds super selfish, but it's true. People are already, like, socializing and impeding on my day. And I'm even horrible at having house guests over who are up in the morning when I get up to make coffee, and they're like, hello, Ben, how's your morning? Like, I am a. Just an arrogant, selfish bear in the morning. Like, I. I'm. I'm right there with you. I need that solitude and that. That silence and that alone time. And a lot of times, if people are already up, my kids, my wife, whatever, I will find a quiet place in the house or in the yard and just lock myself away. I'm right there with you. What's. What's number three?

Number three is I drink. Well, this is out of order, but I always have water, so cold water, mixed with sea salt, maybe some lime, and then whatever supplements in the morning that I'm supposed to take before I eat right upon waking. So that's right now. That's been siltep for a long time.

Siltep?

Yep. The natural stacks. Nootropic.

Yeah, that's the one with. What's that, artichoke extract in it?

Yep.

Is that right? I forget what else. It's not like a central nervous system stimulant. It's more of a. It's acting in, I believe, like more of an adaptogenic sense. If I'm correct, it was like one of the first smart drugs out there.

That.

That's not like central nervous system based.

Yeah, I know that it's unique from. From others, and I think I had the talk with the. The guy who developed it at that conference that, that you and I earlier this year, but I was. I was hyped up on all sorts of caffeine and a lot smarter than I usually am. So it made sense at the time and then I forgot what it meant later.

Yeah, it's artichoke extract. I've got the ingredients here in front of me. Coleus forskoli. That's an interesting one. I know. It's good for thyroid, and it can also reduce LDL particle count to a certain extent. And apparently when combined with artichoke, that's where you get a little bit of an enhancement of neural functions. Got vitamin B6L, phenylalanine and acetyl L. Carnitine. I've used it before. I remember Distinctly. I think it was last year that natural stacks. And we'll link to this in the show notes. By the way, for those of you who want to check out ciltep. I remember you have to load with it for, like, one or two weeks before you begin to notice much of a change in function. Have you noticed that?

You know, I actually. I think I noticed the benefits right away, and that could have been placebo, but I think I remember using it for the first week, and I noticed my week was a lot better afterwards, so.

Interesting. Okay, so we've got siltep and a. A morning glass of. Did you say cold or warm water?

Cold waters.

Okay. Cold water. Good for the vagus nerve. And you've got. Getting outside. You've got solitude. What else? Was that four? Or was that five?

That was. Let's see, that was three. So number four is movement. So, you know, getting outside is. It's really nice having a dog because I can do all of these things with no excuses, like, well, I have to take the dog outside. I'm leaving, so, you know, I can go outside. And what I've been doing a lot lately, and this has been really nice, but for the last couple months, I've been doing a lot of shoulder mobility and core exercises using a strap overhead. And I found that my shoulder mobility has really improved greatly from using this. And so I've been using my dog's leash as my strap. So whenever I. Whenever I get outside, I do just some variations of lunges, you know, some. Some spinal flexion and some just side stretching with a strap overhead.

And you hold that strap almost like a PVC pipe, Right? Like, correct for mobility, like overhead stretches. Yeah, I have myself. It's kind of funny. You do the dog leash. I have a wooden dowel out on my porch, and a lot of times when I'm out there doing my morning mobility. So I alternate between a little bit of yoga and. I know. We'll talk about this in just a second, like your form of yoga and your form of mobility, but I'll alternate. One day I'll do yoga, and then another day I'll do this thing called the Core foundation routine, which is basically a program designed by a chiropractic doc that it kind of turns on your butt and decompresses your spine. I wrote an article about it recently at Benfitness.

Yeah, I read it.

Have you tried this before?

I've done a lot of reading. I did a lot of. I've read your article a few times, but I haven't clicked on any of the videos and looked at the movements involved yet, but it looks pretty awesome.

Yeah, it's a book called True to Form. And this guy used to work with a bunch of Tour de France cyclists and professional athletes to teach them how to re turn on their glutes and breathe more deeply throughout the day and then also decompress the spine, especially if they sit a lot or they have lumbar pain. And dude, I swear by this program now, I do it almost every morning. Like you like one of my. It's kind of interesting. We have parallels. Like, I'm big time into solitude in the morning. I have a morning routine. I drink my big glass of water, you know, I take my supplements, et cetera. But then I go out on the porch and this doesn't count as my workout. Right. It's just my little bit of movement for the day to gain. It's almost like if you do that 10 minutes or so of movement, you gain momentum into the rest of the day too. Perhaps be inspired to do your actual exercise routine or anything else. It's like, all right, I already moved for 10 minutes, now I can move a whole bunch more. You kind of get that feeling.

Yeah, absolutely. And if I, you know, the prospect of waking up and trying to do a 60 minute workout would just not be totally exciting. But after you do those just that five, ten minutes of stretching, you're like, okay, now I can do something. So, yeah, I get that.

And what's your fifth?

Fifth is just having a good breakfast. So I know that I'll probably get hangry within an hour or an hour probably. It takes about two hours to get hangry, but I eat within an hour, hour and a half of waking and I have a very consistent breakfast. It's pretty much the same every day. It's eggs, it's spinach, sauerkraut, avocado and sweet potato a lot lately mixed with ghee. And it's the same every day. It's delicious. And yeah, I'm set for at least five hours or six hours after I have a giant plate of that.

That sounds very much like what my kids have for breakfast in the morning. They get up and they do eggs and bacon and some vegetables. I'm a smoothie guy. I take out the giant Vitamix esque. It's like I use one called an Omni blender. It's kind of like a generic version of a Vitamix, but typically I'm dumping everything from ice to prevent oxidation as I, I don't know if, if you saw I wrote an article on this, but if you put a little bit of lemon juice and a little bit of, of ice in with a smoothie in which you're gonna like pulverize vegetables, it keeps the vegetables from getting warm and also from oxidizing as you blend. So you get a little bit less damage to the vegetables, a little bit less heat based damage when you're using like a high speed blender. So you put a little bit of lemon juice and ice in first, then you dump the rest of your ingredients on top of that. So you know, usually for me that's like, you know, coconut oil and vegetables and avocado, some nut butter, some sea salt, some cinnamon and then I just blend that all up. But the ice and the lemon juice work really, really well. I'm not a big, not a big fry up guy or an egg guy in the morning. I'm more of the smoothie variety.

Yeah, that lemon juice hack sounds pretty cool. I need to try that. I have a, I was at Costco a few months ago and they had a ridiculous price, they had a ridiculous sale on the Vitamix and I was like, all right, I've been looking at this thing for three years now. Just get it. But I need to use that thing more.

It's worth owning. I mean you can do so many things with like we'll do nut butters, right, where you blend almonds. Then you strain them through a cheese cloth and you've got almond milk coming out the bottom and then you've got almond pulp left over that you can make almond cheese with. Or you know, I recently wrote an article about this on BenGreenfieldFitness.com where I'll take bark tea. You can get this stuff called Pau d' Arco bark tea and it's an anti cancer, anti inflammatory. It's a precursor to an anti aging molecule called nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide. And you can blend the bark with fats like MCT oil or you can blend it with liquid fish oil or coconut oil or anything else and it creates this, it's essentially a bioabsorbable fat soluble form of this NAD molecule. And then you can use what you've created after you strain it as like a mixer for smoothies or you can drink it straight or whatever creates, creates almost like this bark tea milk. And dude, it's kind of like up there with, with bone broth in terms of something that will quote unquote, raise the dead. So it's Good stuff, man. You'll have to get your hands on some of this bark. I'll put a link in the show notes to the article I wrote about how to actually make this stuff. Yeah.

Anyways, though, what's your MCT oil? What do you use?

I use the. Well, the form that is most efficacious for neurological function is primarily what would be called C8. So coconut oil is a mix of C8 and C10, relatively diluted with things like lauric acid, et cetera. And then MCT oil is also a blend of C8 and C10, but a little bit more concentrated. And then there's this stuff called Brain octane oil. I get it from Dave Asprey's bulletproof company. And that's just basically pure C8. And that's the stuff that really spins the dials in your brain, satiates the appetite, et cetera. So I use this stuff called brain octane or C8.

But, yeah, I'm a bulletproof ambassador. That's why. Because I have. I've tried out a few different ones, and I've got the brain octane, and I use that. I kind of alternate between that and this giant tub of refined coconut oil. I found it. Literally a gallon of refined coconut oil. It comes in a bucket.

Nice. I like it. I like it. All right, so let's talk about. About your favorite flavor of yoga, this man flow yoga. Now, I know that we did a podcast episode on it and we talked a little bit about this, but I still need to wrap my head a little bit more around what it is that makes it so unique in terms of it building more fitness than other forms of yoga. And I was wondering if you could kind of like walk me through a sample session and give me some examples, like, you know, in terms of the actual biomechanics or biochemistry of what's going on during a man flow yoga session that allows it to build fitness or build tolerance to lactic acid or power or whatever else it is that you're building when you do one of these sessions.

Yeah, so when I was going to other yoga sessions, I noticed that we moved out of the postures very quickly. So if you ever been to a. If you ever been to a vinyasa class, which is the most popular type of yoga, or you go to even a bikram class, the poses last for. In a vinyasa class, maybe 15, 20 seconds. It's kind of one or two breaths and then, okay, next pose. So when I was doing those classes, I was super inflexible and I need way more time to work into the posture to actually develop flexibility, but also to make sure I was doing everything correctly. So we make the postures last a lot longer in manful yoga, whereas in typical yoga you might do 15, at most 30 seconds. We'll hold the posture for 60 or 90 seconds. So, you know, a lot of isometric.

Strength, building a long time. Yeah, I mean, if, if you've tried to hold a pose, like a lunge pose for 60 to 90 seconds versus three to five breaths. I mean, 60, 90 seconds doesn't sound like long, but that's, that's a decent amount of time to actually be holding a pose correctly.

Yeah, so that, so that really helps with endurance. So first off, it helps with. Physically it's just going to help with endurance a lot more. But number two, physically, it also helps with building flexibility because the longer you stay in a pose, it takes. Takes anywhere from. It can take up to. What is the number I saw? I think 90 seconds. It can take up to 90 seconds for your muscles to relax and lengthen. So while we're holding the pose for more than 15 seconds, we're actually giving your muscles a chance to open up, to lengthen, to get more flexible for those muscles to release. So the flexibility aspect is there as well. And then number three, because we're spending more time in it, we have more of an opportunity to really delve into the technique. So we can talk about breath. All right. Make sure you're using your breath to inhale, to come up a little bit and exhale to go deeper. We can talk about. Okay. Make sure you're doing, make sure you're externally rotating you're front hip. Make sure that your arch is lifted and your ankles are externally rotated. Make sure that your chest is lifted. Make sure that you're thinking of pulling your ribs away from your hips and tightening your core. So, you know, we can talk a lot more about technique just because the poses are lasting longer as well. And then because the poses last longer, we're also getting nearer to that point of muscle fatigue. So you can actually build muscle and get stronger.

You know, I know in some of the studies that they've done on isometric contractions, one of the things that they found, you know, you talk about muscle fatigue, but I know that they found you get a significant amount of motor unit recruitment when you drop into a position and you hold it for a long period of time. Like when you get to that point where the muscle is really burning, you can actually train for increased motor unit recruitment. And that actually staves off central nervous system fatigue. So what I mean by that is like I'll have some of the folks who I coach for running, for example, I will begin their run and end their run with a long isometric contraction in a lunge position, right? Like a three to five minute contraction in a lunge position to grab as many motor units as possible to prime the central nervous system or after the run is done, to fatigue the central nervous system. And I'm a huge fan of these type of isometric contractions even thrown in during the day. I don't know if you've tried this before, Dean, but like a technique where, for example, when you're on a phone call, you just drop into a wall squat or an isometric squat and you hold it for three to five minutes and you're actually training motor unit recruitment when you do that. Oh yeah, the other.

I was going to say the other thing.

I learned this from Jay Schroeder. Have you heard of his extreme ISO routines?

It sounds familiar.

Yeah, this guy trains a lot of NFL athletes and yeah, I've heard of this. Yeah, he'll have them go through a range of motion, but it's extremely slow. Right. Like you'll do say like an overhead press or a push up and you'll take like five minutes to do a push up. And one of the things that he talked about when I interviewed him, and I'll link to that interview in the show notes for this episode, just go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com Mobility Project. He talks about how you actually build up a lot of lactic acid in muscle tissue. And normally your muscles would shuttle that lactic acid out of the tissue up towards the liver and the lactic acid gets converted into glucose and then that glucose becomes an available energy source for you to use. But when you do a very, very slow contraction, you get much less of that milking action of lactic acid out of tissue. And so you build up a bunch of hydrogen ions and a bunch of acidity in muscle tissue and you actually have to increase the density of the enzymes responsible for buffering lactic acid in tissue. So by doing a very, very slow isometric contraction, you not only increase motor unit recruitment, but also your lactic acid threshold in that particular section of tissue that you're training.

Wow. Yeah, that sounds awesome. I mean, and I've been. I'm just thinking of holding a three to five minute lunge after doing, after going for a two mile run or any run. Yeah, that sounds really difficult.

It's hard, but it can be used as a, as a finisher or an ender to any routine. Right. Like, you know, a chest or an upper body routine. You can finish that up with a, with an isometric push up hold at the bottom of the push up to failure. Or you can finish up a squat routine with an isometric squat to failure. Or you can start with that again to prime your motor unit. Recruitment. It's a cool technique to try if you're listening in and you're masochistic and a glutton for the burn. So Dean, you've got this yoga routine and basically are you going through a typical, like, you know, half the yoga I know you do, down dog and sun salutations, all your different lunge positions. Are you pretty much just doing that and just holding each one for 60 to 90 seconds or are there other things thrown in?

I think there's a lot more, there's, there's more exercises thrown in and it's different from a typical yoga session because we've, we've kind of modified the postures the way that you would do a, let's say the bottom position of a squat in yoga isn't very, it's not really an athletic squat. You wouldn't be focusing on keeping a slight arch to your back and keeping your chest lifted. It's more of a stretch so you're kind of more relaxed. Your elbows are inside your knees. So what we try to, so we incorporate a lot more what you would see in a bodyweight exercise or like a calisthenics workout. So we're not afraid to incorporate things that aren't considered yoga into the workout. So I've heard it called, I've heard it called yoga calisthenics a lot more than, or I've heard it called yoga calisthenics from people who aren't familiar with it. You could also call it a slow burn yoga type class. But we also have, if we're in a gym and I have the use, I'll throw in pull ups or just get on a bar and hang just to make it so that we're getting in more recruitment of the muscles in the back of your body as opposed to what yoga tends to focus on.

That's one of the things I've noticed is yoga. It's very easy to get quite kind of chest and shoulder centric where you're doing a lot of these pushes from the ground and you almost create a muscular imbalance, so to speak, in terms of not getting a lot of those pulling type of exercises. And I don't know about you, but I found a couple of moves that tend to help out quite a bit with that. One is whenever you're doing like a, like a squat in yoga or even when you're doing lunges, I will sometimes do isometric or very, very super slow rows with my upper body where you imagine that you're holding on to like a cable or a rope apparatus and pulling it very slowly into your body. And it's just your own body weight that you're using, but you're contracting all your back and your scapular retraction muscles either from above your head and down are out in front of you and pulling in towards your body. I feel like an idiot because I'm actually doing this in my office.

I am too talking.

So you pull in and everybody listening in. Try it. Unless you're driving, then just use your steering wheel, which I also do. But basically, yeah, you pull and you're essentially doing an isometric contraction for a lot of your pulling muscles. And you can do that in a lunge position or in a squat position, like isometric super slow poles in a lunge or a squat. And then the other thing that I'll do if I don't, like you mentioned, have access to a pull up bar wherever I'm doing the yoga is especially if I'm outside. I'll use one of these kind of like TRX style suspension trainers. I've got one called a Most Fit, which is kind of like a TRX except it's like a poor man's version of trx. It just, it packs a little bit better in my opinion as far as portability. But I'll use this Most Fit suspension strap and hang that, you know, from a tree or a bar or whatever happens to be nearby where I'm doing my yoga. And then you can throw in like really super slow rows and pulls. And with the yoga routines you address, like you mentioned, you know, some of those muscular imbalances in terms of yoga not seeming to work the back or the, the upper back that much or the scapular retractors.

Yeah, so, so what I'll do, I have, I have people do Gulf host arms and kind of like you were saying before, that also helps with the scapular engagement and that scapular muscle activation helps because most people who are just starting yoga or who don't have a flexibility practice, movement practice of any sort, they can't lift their arms straight up overhead without arching their back. So if we do goalpost arms number one, we're actually stretching the pectorals. We're also engaging those scapular muscles, so the scapular stabilizer. So it's much more appropriate for someone who doesn't have that flexibility and also to help balance the workout.

Yeah, that's, that's one thing that I'll also do. And for people listening in goal post arms, and correct me if I'm wrong, Dean, but basically you bring your arms up as though you're like a football referee indicating that someone just kicked a field goal. You know you're making the goalpost arms with elbows at 90 degrees, correct?

Yes.

Yeah. Your palms, your palms are facing behind you. And, and what you do is you basically squeeze your shoulders back as you make the goalpost arms, right?

Yeah. And your palms can face forward. I think it palms forward. But yeah, Elbows.

Yeah. Fingernails facing behind you basically.

Correct.

Fingernails facing to, to, to your back. And one thing I've found is that this one tends to be really effective if you do an isometric contraction either against the wall as you're doing your goalpost arms, or one of the better ones to really get a good start chest stretch. And this is one I was actually doing this morning, is you get onto a foam roller and you bring the foam roller up about to the level of your upper back. Then you do goal post arms and you try to get the back of your hands to touch the floor behind you while you're in that goalpost arms position. And you just press the back of your hands as hard as you can into the floor while using the foam roller as like leverage to stretch the upper back and open up the rhomboids and the traps and the leviter and a lot of those upper back muscles as you're doing goalpost arms. And if you have issues with like a shoulder hunch or a tight chest or any of those other issues that can pop up if you're doing just yoga or just push ups or you're bench pressing a lot. This is, in my opinion, one of the best exercises to get rid of a lot of that kind of like chest tension. So cool. One to add into the routine.

That is not a relaxing exercise at all. It is intense the whole way through.

Yeah, it is. It's like getting a sports massage. It's not like a hands of serenity relaxing oil massage. Like it's teeth grittingly. Good. The other question that I have for you regarding yoga, I actually have a few questions for you about Yoga, this concept of power, I mean, obviously, and the folks who are into exercise physiology are probably trying to jump into the podcast, screaming through their headsets that we're not really developing much power or much brute strength. Right. If you don't have an external load or like a barbell or a dumbbell or a kettlebell or a stone or a keg or anything else, how are you going to develop much brute strength? And also how do you develop power? You know, like, you beat me on that obstacle course down at Paleo fx, you know, jumping over walls and, and, you know, proudest moment of my life. Flipping heavy tires. Yeah, well, that. Yeah. Proudest moment of your life. That's. You haven't had kids yet, obviously, or gotten married. Right, right. It's just beating Ben at an obstacle course. The power, though, and the brute strength, how do you develop that? What's your response to that? Are you, are you including like explosive exercises in a man flow yoga routine? Are you personally, every once in a while getting out and deadlifting or doing heavy squats or anything like that? What's your approach for power and for brute strength?

Yeah, so I used to be, I used to be all yoga. I used to be like 90% yoga and then some pull ups to help balance. And then when I realized that yoga wasn't all that I wanted to do, that I wanted to start playing lacrosse again and start doing athletic things, that's when I started doing some other things. So, yeah, I lift not often, not regularly at all. Maybe on average once per week. But I get my power movements in elsewhere. Yoga is one aspect of fitness, but, you know, to say that it would cover everything would just be a lie. So I get a lot of the power in from. I do kettlebell swings, I do squat jumps, I do deadlifts, I get out and I do sprints. I live right next to a park. So I put my cleats on and I do a lot of explosive agility drills. So, you know, I get in that stuff from my other workouts and I don't really combine the two just to kind of make differentiation, but as far as incorporating them into yoga workouts in the future, I think that'd be a cool idea. As far as, as long as you're down in the squat, why not add in some squat jumps or why use of some other tools and combine it? So it's definitely the, the ability to do it within a, within a yoga workout, is there? I just haven't done it yet.

Yeah, there's, there's a Guy, I believe it might be Dan John. I could be wrong on that. He has a kettlebell. Heard of that? It's an actual kettlebell yoga routine. And you're doing yoga with a kettlebell. I've experimented with that one a little bit and I'll link to it in the show notes. I want to say it's Dan John, but I'll have to re research it and remember. But the other thing that I've personally done, Dean, during yoga sessions and I've done some of this man flow esque yoga type of stuff where I'll hold these positions for a really long period of time and use some of the other strategies that we've talked about, like goal post arms, like the use of a suspension trainer. But I will also sometimes set up my yoga mat and I'll take one of these big kettlebells, right? Like I'll use for example one of the onit kettlebells like the monkey ones, but the heavy ones like the gorilla. And rather than doing say like light kettlebell swings or some basic kettlebell rows, things like that during the movement, I will do after a series of say like a sun salutation series, I'll grab the kettlebell and I'll do 10 heavy, heavy swings, right? So you're getting the strength and you're getting the explosiveness. The heart rate goes up and then you go back into the super slow yoga. The other thing I've done, like you mentioned, is you'll occasionally throw in explosive sets. So for example, if you're doing like a lunge, a yoga routine that involves a series of lunges, you'll throw in a series of like 10 lunge jumps or 10 super explosive scissor jumps or some type of clap pushup or something power based. After you've done the slow stuff. And then what you're doing, kind of returning to what we talked about with motor unit recruitment, is you're recruiting a whole bunch of motor units with the super slow hold. And then you are training those motor units to grab as many as possible in terms of your central nervous system, grabbing as many motor units as possible, creating the power. And then if you follow that up with an isometric hold, then you're introducing a bunch of lactic acid into the tissue and creating lactate tolerance and kind of, you know, more or less finishing off the muscle. And that gets into a strategy that I don't know if you've heard of. Neuromass. Have you read this book at all? Neuromass?

No, I haven't okay.

There's this book called Neuromass. There's a guy I'm trying to get on the podcast who wrote it, but that's all his program is, is you do a super slow grind, and then you do a power movement, and then you finish it up with an isometric movement. And so you're getting brute strength, the isometric training and the power, all at the same time. And it. It actually pairs really, really well with low. With yoga. You know, like doing a yoga routine one day and doing something like this Neuromass routine another day. So that. That one's another kind of cool resource if you're listening in and you want to. Want another program to try with just a kettlebell or with just body weight.

Yeah, so I was actually gonna respond to that, the motor unit recruitment thing. So there are a lot of. I do a lot of workouts where we focus on just priming your body. So, you know, you want to avoid static stretching before you warm up. But there's nothing wrong with doing static postures or static isometric exercises before you warm up. So I do a lot of stuff that focus on. Focuses on glute engagement and hip opening and inner thigh engagement and core engagement with yoga. So even though I'm not always. Even if I'm not doing a full yoga workout, I'll use yoga exercises before I go into, you know, before I go into a weight training session or before I play lacrosse game or something like that. And I recommend that to my clients too, and in my videos as well.

Right. And the other thing that I wanted to ask you about when it comes to your yoga practice, I guess, is this whole idea, because I know there's probably some people wondering, why do you say so much that you don't do? You aren't into the spiritual, that you place more emphasis on the technique and that you're more into the physical benefits without the lifestyle changes of being a yogi, so to speak. Why is that?

Yeah, so that. That the spiritual aspects of yoga really never made sense to me. I find that a lot of people who do yoga have never. They've never. They weren't athletes before. They. They didn't have a regular fitness program. They weren't working out regularly. They started yoga as something else, and then they also started at the same time. They were also working out while they're doing. Doing yoga. But for them, the spiritual aspect has always came first. So for me, I was an athlete. You know, the first time I did yoga, I was 20, 22 or 20 I think 22. So the first time I did yoga, I stepped into a studio as a lacrosse player. And, you know, I've been working on my whole life. And for me to get into the mindset that yoga was a spiritual activity, just. That didn't make any sense to me. It was, you know, to draw a comparison. It would be like me doing bench press with, with the spiritual aspect. So it just never made sense to me. And when I started talking with other people and trying to get other people to come to yoga class with me, and I don't want to do the spiritual thing and I'm like, well, I don't either. I just ignore it and focus on the process. So, I mean, since then I've transformed from a. Or not, I wouldn't say transformed, but I've somewhat evolved from a Neanderthal and started incorporating some spiritual practices into my life. But, you know, journaling and meditation and visualization and all those mental processes. But as far as doing yoga in conjunction with spirituality, those are just separate activities.

So isn't, isn't that though, like, historically, you know, at the risk of you, like, blaspheming yoga or defiling the practice of yoga, I mean, isn't that a big part of yoga historically is the breath work, closing your eyes and like, you know, activating the pineal gland by, you know, envisioning your, your third eye chakra doing like the humming and the chanting to activate the vagus nerve nerve and to settle the central nervous system, focusing on the deep breathing so that you get not just the oxygenation benefits, but also the parasympathetic nervous system activation. I mean, do you ever wonder if you're making yoga too fight and flight, too sympathetic nervous system based when you are perhaps neglecting or ignoring some of the spiritual aspects of it?

I get accused of that a lot. And kind of my response to that has been, well, this is the kind of yoga that I want to do, and this is the kind of yoga that a lot of other people want to do as well. But as far as neglecting the sympathetic response system, even when we're doing postures, the emphasis is very much still on the breath and keeping your cool, so to speak. So we aren't ever doing it saying, all right, now, pant, you know, breathe as fast as you can. So we keep the, we keep the, that fight or flight response to a minimum as much as possible. We really do focus on keeping things slowed down so that there is that mental stillness and there is that aspect of calmness to it. So that, number one, so that you can actually hold postures longer when you're focusing on breathing, I think slowly and keeping your body in control the posture longer, which obviously needs more endurance. But you're also going to be able to tell your muscles that they can relax and that you can build flexibility. So we don't neglect those aspects. We just take out the kind of the life advice or the spiritual advice that you would typically encounter in a yoga class kind of as somebody saying, all right, now I want you to make the theme of today's yoga class about forgiveness, you know, or whatever else it would say. So for sure, for me, I just, we just really focus on the technique and those, those mental benefits. And the mental benefits will come. And if you notice that you are also working on, you're also getting something spiritual out of it, that's great. But we just don't, we just don't mention it. I don't need to mention it for it to happen.

Yeah. Since we did our podcast together last year, I've talked to a lot of people who have done your Man Flow Yoga program, both guys and girls, and they love the workout, right? Like they get a, they get an amazing workout with, with again, just body weight. And if you're listening in and you want to go try out any of these Man Flow Yoga workouts, I'll link to some of Dean's videos. But you know, I, I personally Dean, like, I, I really like the spiritual aspect of it, you know, and I can go in and have an intention for a practice, right? Like I want to focus on gratitude or forgiveness where I want to devote this morning's yoga session or this morning's movement session to whatever I'm feeling gratitude towards. I want to devote this towards the amazing sunshine that's on my body right now, or the wind and the air that's surrounding me and the deep freshness of nature that I'm immersed in. And I can get kind of woo woo and still have an amazing workout. And I think I've found more of that since I started doing Kundalini Yoga. And again, I don't want to make it sound like there's one form of yoga that you have to do like Man Flow Yoga or Kettlebell yoga or Kundalini Yoga. I like to experiment with a whole bunch of different types. But since I started doing Kundalini Yoga and throwing that in right now, I do it on Wednesday mornings and Sunday mornings. That has really helped me get a little bit, I guess, like get in touch better with being Able to close your eyes, Focus on that third eye chakra. Engage in deep breathing. Engage in almost like aggressive, quick, powerful movements. Get the heart rate up. Do some like holotropic, like Wim Hof style breath work and kind of like roll it all into one and still get the spiritual aspect, right. Of not just like dedication and focus on the positive attributes of yoga. But for me, you know, I'm not necessarily an Eastern, you know, mysticist. I'm. I'm a Christian. And so, you know, I'm focusing more on like God and prayer and what I may have read in the Bible that morning, but I've actually found that, that yoga is good for tapping into your spiritual side. Maybe that's just like the, the old wise man in me coming out, but that's my thought. Spiritual stuff.

Yeah, I think, I think that for a lot of people it's awesome. And I think that, I think that some people like even both aspects. So some people will really want, you know, today I really want a spiritual workout or. Or what I get a lot of people coming into mantle yoga is. Hey, I do a lot of yoga, but I just want to learn a little bit more about the postures and I'm not getting enough focus on that in a typical yoga that I'm going to. So we get people from. Again, we get all types of people doing mantle yoga. People that really like the spiritual people that come here because they just don't like the spirituality aspects at all. And then people who are kind of in the middle, like, I appreciate both. So I think there's. Yeah, it's just. What kind of yoga do you want to do today?

Yeah, so, yeah, of course, you could have just called it Yoga for meatheads.

Might be taken.

No, no spirituality. You should look that up, get that URL. No spirituality required. Just yoga, meathead yoga. You know, speaking of yoga, like, a lot of people will do yoga for flexibility. And I think this is one of the prevailing myths out there that I think you, with some of the programs I see you developing now, you're starting to bust. But this idea of yoga making you mobile. Can you go into why it is that yoga would not necessarily be the best thing to increase mobility versus, say, flexibility?

Yeah. So, you know, I don't need to go through the whole analogy of a rope stretching because you guys have heard that and Ben specifically told me not to. But in terms of flexibility, that's just in terms of mobility. Flexibility is just one aspect of it. And you can stretch as much as you want, but the goal of, when you're working on flexibility, your goal is to increase mobility, with flexibility just being one aspect of that. So, you know, to really work on what your overall goal is, which is to improve your overall mobility, you need to do soft tissue work, you need to get into the fascia, you need to work on restricted muscle tissue and adhesions. So, you know, in order to really do that, you have to incorporate some self massage or some self myofascial release into what you're doing. So yoga can. And let's say yoga is level one, let's say there's flexibility to be gained from yoga, of course, but if you really want to increase overall mobility, you have to do soft tissue work. And I think that's where the real significant, dramatic increases in mobility come into play is when you start using mobility self myofascial release techniques. And, you know, what I like to do is I put them together. So I do, you know, I'll work soft tissue. So, you know, at a minimum, using a foam roller, but, you know, really getting into the. Getting into some harder mobility tools. Like, I use a tool called the Knot out, which is, you know, they have peanuts, but they also have really huge peanuts, which are four balls across and about the size of a softball.

And what is it? What is a peanut?

So the peanut is the two lacrosse balls taped together. And there's a lot of. Okay, Kelly. You know, Kelly Starrett. Love these. Talks about them a lot in mobility wod. But the. Yeah, the one that, the one that I really like using is, is made by a company called the Knot Out. So K n o T o u t. Okay.

K n O T o u T not out. I've seen these. I think I actually have one of these. It's kind of like a really hard version of two lacrosse balls taped together, but it's in like a whole bunch of different sizes. Like one for the bottom of your feet, one for your spine, etc.

Exactly. Yeah. And so they have one where the balls are as large as softballs. You know, they're huge. And I use this. I don't even use a foam roller anymore. I just go straight to these things because they're so much better at addressing restricted tissue and really, really pinpointing where you want to hit. And so I'll use these before a workout. And this is what I do with all of my clients and all my workout programs now too, is we'll do a minimum of 10 minutes of soft tissue work, and then we'll go into postures and exercises that focus on lengthening, on stretching and on engaging that muscle that we just worked into with the soft tissue work.

Right, okay, got it. So you're starting off prior to doing something like a man flow yoga esque routine by getting rid of muscle knots using deep tissue work. You also mentioned self massage. What do you mean by that?

So self massage. There are also some techniques that I do where you're just grabbing onto, grabbing onto restrictive tissue and squeezing. I mean that's a very, that's a very brute way of explaining it. But you can also use. One thing I like to do is I like to use my ulna. So I will lather up my forearm with lotion and then I will use that to massage my forearm. So I'll just really dig into my forearm from my elbow down to my wrist. And that's another way to do self massage. But to self massage I'm normally just referring to self myofascial release, but I can also talk about that as in just giving yourself a massage.

So, so you'll use your elbow, you'll hit specific spots, you use these knot out tools. What about areas that you can't get yourself? Do you work with a massage therapist at all to increase mobility to specific areas. And the reason, reason I ask is I have had to start doing that. Maybe it's again because I'm getting old and wise. Can't get old without getting wise, right?

Let's say you're getting wiser instead of I'm getting wiser.

Yeah. Anyways though I've found that I have had to start working with a massage therapist more because there are little spots, right. Like the back upper part of my butt that I just have a really hard time getting at. Even with lacrosse balls and a foam roller and stuff like that or like separating the soleus from the gastrocnemius down in the calf area. And so about two times, up to four times a month now I actually have a, you know, massage therapist come to my house and work on me and we get super duper like woo, woo. Like I lay on the biomat, we put the biomat on high and then I put in these, these whole tones music frequencies now which are like healing music frequencies that vibrate the body. And we do like essential oils and I have a special ayurvedic oil blend that's specifically for my ayurvedic type. And like totally geek out on trying to get every aspect of the massage dialed in. I mean, I'm curious if you've yet tapped into the use of massage therapy much?

Man, I have not had a massage like that. I mean you are going all out as far as making sure that your body is just a piece of putty. That's awesome. But as far as.

Why not, right? If you're gonna hire a massage therapist, I mean, and they're gonna come to your house to give you a massage, you're in charge, right? So I, I tell my massage therapist, hey, I'm gonna do the biomat. And she's totally on board with it, right? The, the music frequencies this oil a lot of times. And this is actually a tip I got from Aubrey Marcus from Onnit. If you use like, like high dose cbd for example, prior to massage, you do melt like you melt into the table. If you'll, you know, I, I take about 5 to 6 of the, the nature CBD capsules which are designed for, for relaxation at high dosage. But I almost mega dose on them before a massage and you just melt. And the massage therapist can get super duper deep into the tissue if you've got a bunch of cannabidiol in your system when you get the massage. And this is not for those of you listening, this isn't thc. It's not the, it's not the psychoactive stuff. Not that I have anything against that, but it's, it's closer to like, I guess like Rick Simpson oil or CBD oil, but it's like CBD capsules. And you can take a bunch of that before massage too. Anyways though, Dean, what were you saying before I got on my bandwagon about cannabidiol?

I was gonna say that, well, I do get massages, but I don't get them at home. So I don't think I could trial either. I think I had to drive home about 20 minutes after I get my massages. So I think if I did all that, I would probably cause multiple at home.

Yeah, that's why I get them at home, because I don't. And I get them at like 8:30 at night. Right. I want to finish up my massage and just basically go to bed. Occasionally I'll do like a bath and epsom salts or magnesium salts and then go to bed. But yeah, that's one of the reasons I get home massage. So I know as far as like the routine that you personally use for mobility, you have put it together into almost like a, like an actual routine that, similar to your man flow yoga, you have videos and stuff online that shows how you implement these Techniques. Can you tell me a little bit more about this? What do you call it? The mobility project?

Yeah. So the mobility project is I started doing these workouts myself probably a year ago. I started really working with these self myofascial release techniques, and I started blending them with yoga. And then I thought, well, afterwards, why don't I just do some really deep stretching so that we really work on the flexibility and the soft tissue aspects. And then I started doing these workouts because if people are doing manful yoga, they kind of want an authentic workout. So I started doing this with a small group of people that I was training online, so in a group online class. So we started doing these workouts that spent the first 20 or 30 minutes doing mobility techniques like these self myofascial release techniques, using a knot out, using lacrosse balls, using foam rollers. And then we would go into isometric exercises or into yoga postures where we're targeting the muscles where we had just done the mobility work on, and then finishing off the workouts with some really deep, longer lasting stretches to just pull that tissue as much as we can and to create as much flexibility as possible. So I realized, well, you know, we should probably put this into a workout program. So we created. Yeah, I created the mobility Project. And I called Mobility Project because I couldn't think of a better name, honestly. But it's a total good name.

Gets the point across.

Yeah. Actually the best. The most successful program you've ever had so far.

Really?

Yeah.

What do you mean the most successful?

Most successful is in most workout programs. Sold.

Okay, gotcha. So people like it.

People really like it. Yeah.

And is it like a single workout that you do each day? Is it kind of like your man flow yoga where it's a series of mobility yoga workouts or how does it go?

So it's the series. We've got eight workouts in there, and it's separated by body parts. So it's as much a tutorial as it is a workout. So, you know, the first couple of times you watch it, you'll have to learn the techniques. And this is what the videos teach you. But the third time you do it, you're like, all right, I got this. So you'll understand. So it includes. Includes mobility self myofascial release techniques for your entire body. So we have a head and neck section, we have an upper torso section. Arms, we have two hip sections because there's just too much going on down there to put in one workout. And then we have a lower leg section and Then also a mid or lower torso section. So there's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. Yeah, seven, seven workouts that. And they all follow that technique of first going through self myofascial release using the mobility tools, and then yoga or body weight exercise and then wrapping up with deep stretching.

So interesting. I'm gonna have to try this. Looks like a pretty good morning routine. It looks like you've got 20, 20 minutes up to about 70 minutes. You can kind of like choose your length of time. Yeah.

One of them is that that upper torso one is a beast of a beast of a session. It's a long time, but afterwards your shoulders just feel. Wow. It's a huge difference.

You know, when I first got Kelly Starrett's book Becoming a Supple Leopard, the first thing I did was I did the whole 30 day routine that he had at the back of that book to essentially just like have an entire month of deep tissue work. It looks like, you know, for example, if I were to do this and go through each of these seven workouts like for, for four weeks in a row, that'd be almost like, I like to pick a month of the year, right? Like January to do like a metal detox and a water fast and to just like work on the body, push the reboot button. I might, I might bookmark this and actually use this for something like my, my January reboot the body type of routine. Because this actually looks, looks kind of cool how you hit a, you hit a certain body part or body section each week with, with mobility. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna bookmark this. I'll link to this in the show notes too.

Yeah, that's kind of the intention with this because most people who, most people who do this program, they've just been spending way too much time on building strength. I mean, it's, you know, it's the typical guy who works out syndrome. They're like, I don't want to do flexibility, I just want to work on strength. And then they get to the point where like, oh, I can't lift my arm overhead anymore. Like, well, maybe you should have done some stretching. So this, the mobility project is something that you can absolutely do intensively. So something that, you know, I recommend, like, hey, just take the next three weeks off. Do this, just do this every day. Give your body a break. Let's work on your mobility and then come back three weeks later and start incorporating these exercises into your routine and see how that feels.

Yeah, I love it, man. I love it. I'M gonna bookmark this and actually try out these workouts and I'll link to them in the show notes too. It's called the mobility Project. Dean, I know you made a discount code for people, right?

Yes, it is. Greenfield 25.

Greenfield 25. Okay, so if you go to I'll just put a link over@BenGreenfieldFitness.com mobility project, but use the code that I'll put over there too. Greenfield25. To download. You can just download the videos to your phone or your computer or whatever.

Yep, it can do it on your phone, on your tablet, on anything.

Cool, Cool. I like it. Alright, well, I will link to that in the show notes. There's a, there's a lot more you guys listening in that we could talk to when it comes to yoga and mobility and taking care of your body. But alas, we are, we are out of time. And so first of all, Dean, I want to thank you for coming on the show today and sharing this stuff with us.

Ben, thank you for having me. It's always, it's always exciting talking to you.

Awesome. Cool. Of course it's exciting, man. Especially when I've had my eight cups of morning coffee. And then for those of you listening in again, go to BenGreenfulFitness.com MobilityProject and I'll put a link to everything we talked about. The mobility project, that discount code, Dean's Man Flow yoga program and the how to get Ripped with Yoga podcast I did with him last year. Siltep, the Neuromass program, my Kundalini routine. These knot out muscle adhesion tools. So much goodness. So check all that out. And then also if you have comments or questions for Dean or for me about anything we talked about, when you go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com MobilityProject you can leave your questions, your comments, your feedback there and either Dean or I will reply. So, Dean, I will, I will catch you later, man.

Yep, I'll see you later. Have a good.

All right, folks, whatever. Have a good whatever. And this is Ben Greenfield and Dean Polman signing out from BenGreenfieldFitness.com have a healthy week.

You've been listening to the Ben Greenfield Fitness podcast. Go to BenGreenfield Fitness.com for even more cutting edge fitness and performance advice.

Sam.