How Quitting Alcohol Helped Today's Guest Lose 30 Pounds, Make More Money, Attract Better Friends And Lovers, And Got A Job Hosting SportsCenter on ESPN (And Your Formula For Reducing or Quitting Alcohol).

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Foreign. Hey, folks, it's Ben Greenfield. And in recent podcasts and a little bit on Twitter, I've created a bit of controversy in talking about something that it seems like a lot of people hold kind of near and dear. And in this case, that's red wine and booze in general. And alcohol is something that we've talked about before on podcasts too. We've discuss detoxing and what kinds of alcohol are the most healthy and all sorts of things when it comes to alcohol and what it does to the body, both good and bad. Well, my guest today has a really interesting take on this stuff. His name is James Swanik, and James is actually the host of another podcast called the Alpha Male Club. And I've been on that podcast. You can check it out in itunes. And James, I actually learned this about James several months after I'd met him and we'd hung out. And it kind of shocked me because he didn't come across to me as the type of guy who would have made a decision like this. But he did, and he'll explain it here in a second. But James doesn't drink alcohol. And in this podcast you're gonna learn how quitting alcohol actually helped him lose 30 pounds of fat, make more money, attract better friends and lovers, got him a job hosting SportsCenter on ESPN. And he's kind of got a formula for you whether you want to quit alcohol or if just does not sound fun to you. And maybe you'll be able to make a more informed decision after this podcast. Perhaps just reduce your alcohol from, say, that three glasses of wine a night that I know a lot of you are drinking to something a little bit more sane and healthy. So, James, thanks for coming on the call, man.

Ben, thank you so much for having me. It's great to be here.

Well, let's just jump right into the first crazy question, man. Why did you quit alcohol? Because. Well, I probably should have said this too. You're freaking Australian. So that right there is a little, is a little strange. You're not drinking alcohol.

Yeah. They arrest you in Australia if you don't drink alcohol. There's a sirens come down the street and they handcuff you and put you in the watch house for the night if you quit alcohol. That's the culture I grew up, I grew up in, Seriously. You know, I grew up in Australia. I'm Australian American. And over there, it's like a rite of passage for a man. You know, how many beers you can drink, how much booze you can knock back on a weekend. You know, I moved over to the, to the US in 2002, 2003, and you know, I kept my drinking on. I was never a huge drinker. I mean, I was a binge drinker. They say that binge drinking for men is when you drink five or more drinks in one sitting. For women, it's four or more drinks in one sitting. So I was just a good binge drinker. I never did anything too crazy. I mean, I threw up a couple times and I made a couple of bad decisions, but nothing like, oh my God, like, he's got a, he's an alcoholic, he's got a problem. But, but for a couple of years there in the late 2000s, I was playing rugby for the Los Angeles Rugby Club. And that's a big drinking culture as well. You go out there, you play rugby, and then at the end of the day, end of the game, you go into the pub and you drink. You know, for us, it was the Manhattan Beach Sharkies drove one block, one block back from, from the, from the ocean there.

Yeah, these guys aren't throwing back Diet Cokes, right?

No, they're not throwing back Diet Cokes, but you know, we would do chugging. If you were the best player on the field, you had to chug like a big, big like bottle of beer or big schooner of beer. And that was the culture. But you know what, I just decided I'm going to take a 30 day break here and just see what happens. So I took 30 days off in about 2008, and at the end of 30 days, I went, wow, I've lost a little, little bit of weight here. I'm sleeping a little better, my skin's a bit better. Yeah, this is okay. And then day 31, I just went back to drinking and just drunk for the next 11 months. And then the next year I said, I'll do another 30 days. And then I did another 30 days and went, oh, that was an interesting test. And then in 2010, I was at the south by Southwest festival in Austin, Texas, and I went out on a Friday night. I didn't drink a lot, Ben. I just drank a Couple of gin and tonics, maybe a beer. It was like a three drink night. But I woke up in the morning.

For south by Southwest is nothing, right?

It's nothing. Yeah, right. And I didn't have a big night, but when I woke up on that Saturday morning, I just had a really bad hangover. I don't know what it was. It was dehydration maybe. Maybe it was the flight in from la and I didn't drink enough water. I just felt really, really bad. And I just said, you know what? I'm gonna see if I can beat 30 days. I'm just gonna start my 30 days, my annual 30 days right now and see if I can get to 35. And so I just began. I got to 35 and I went, you know what I'm thinking? I'm gonna go to 40. Then I got to 40 and I said, I wonder if I can do 50 days. Wouldn't that be a feat? Then I got to 50 days and I was like, wow, this is pretty cool. People are like going, wow, you got some self discipline happening here. And then it just continued on and on. And I went, I wonder if I can do three months, I wonder if I can do six months. And then it was like, imagine if I look back on my DeathBed when I'm 80 and I go, remember that year I took 12 months off drinking and I said, I'm just going to go for a year. So I went to a year and I was back at the Southwest Festival in Austin, Texas 12 months later. I went to a bar, ordered myself a Budweiser. I was going to drink it to celebrate it. I put it to my mouth. It smelled really good. But something just stopped me and said, you know what, I'll just keep on going. And I put it back down and I haven't drunk since. It's been about four and a half years now.

Wow, that's amazing. So, you know, I'm curious. You said that, you know, you felt a little bit different, but. But I'm curious if you really delve into the nitty gritty of this, like physically and mentally, because I'm sure a lot of people are curious because some people have tried this for 15 days, 30 days, but not many people for more than a year that I know of, honestly. Especially people who have not grown up drinking alcohol and then quit and been able to compare the difference. But what did you notice physically and also mentally as far as the benefits? Big takeaways for you from not drinking?

Yeah, well, yeah, absolutely. So after 30 days of not drinking, I lost considerable weight. Like, I, I, I was never fat, but I always carried fat around my, my tummy. So from a pure sort of fat loss point of view, after 30 days, I lost 13 pounds.

I'm just curious. Sorry to interrupt. From like a, from like a calorie standpoint, do you think, do you think that that was just not drinking as many calories or not consuming as many calories, period, just because you weren't having the glass of wine with dinner or whatever, or were you still replacing the booze with other calories? Like, are you drinking soda? Or were you eating more food because you weren't drinking as much alcohol? Or did you pay attention to anything like that?

Yeah, no, absolutely. So when I was drinking, I would have a late night kebab or I would have a late night pizza, or on the way home, I would stop into In N Out Burger on Sunset Boulevard in Los Angeles where I was living, and I'd just get a late night burger and fries. And so when I stopped drinking, obviously, I stopped putting those calories in, but then I also stopped putting the calories of the food that I would ordinarily eat with the alcohol. So it was like a double whammy. Yeah, I stopped putting the calories just from the alcohol in, but then I stopped putting the calories from the crap food that I would eat with the alcohol in. And that double whammy was enough for my body to go, oh, this is nice. Wow. I'm not, not putting in all this, this crap all of a sudden. I did at the time before, I obviously listened to your wonderful show, Ben Greenfield, and realized that I shouldn't be drinking soda or diet soda at all.

That's what I was going to ask you. If you just started drinking pop.

Yeah, well, you know what? I drank for the first year, I just drank diet soda. Diet Coke. That was my go to drink as a replacement. I was like, oh, yeah, just give me a, a Diet Coke. And then sometimes I'd have a ginger ale. But it wasn't until I became quite health conscious that I realized that Diet Coke was probably not a good option for me, nor was ginger ale. I might as well just pour some sugar down your mouth. But I wasn't drinking a lot of that stuff. Like, if I would go out on a good night and have four or five alcoholic drinks, I was still only having one or two glasses at the bar of Diet Coke. So it wasn't like I was drinking a whole liter bottle or gallon bottle, if you like. Yeah, so. So yeah, I stopped putting in calories from the alcohol and I stopped eating food, the crap food that I would eat from the alcohol. So from a dietary point of view, that was huge.

But I'm sure that's not a huge surprise to people that, like, when you, when you don't consume calories from booze or, you know, IHOP at 2am or whatever, that you're gonna lose some weight. I'm curious what other things you noticed physically or mentally that maybe surprised you.

I slept a lot better, Ben. That was really interesting. So at nighttime I tended to go to sleep a little earlier. And when I say a little, it was probably about 45 minutes to an hour. And I found that my sleep was certainly deeper. And when I woke up in the morning, I felt fresher. And this is not putting any mayonnaise on the story. I mean, this actually happened. This is a real benefit that you get from giving up the alcohol. I mean, I would wake up in the morning even after a few drinks and feel lethargic and feel like my sleep wasn't that great. And you would think that, you know, if you're drinking heavily, that you're going to sleep deeply, right? Because you're just your body so exhausted. But what's going on when you're sleeping is that your body's trying to break down all that alcohol. It's trying to break down that late night burger, it's trying to break down that late night set of fries. So by the time you wake up in the morning, you're like, oh man, I'm exhausted from that. Whereas when I stopped drinking the alcohol and when I just went to sleep without the alcohol, I felt that I was sleeping a lot better. And when I woke up in the morning, I was, I wouldn't say I was like jumping out of bed going zippity do, duh, zippity day. My, oh my, what a wonderful day. But it was certainly, it was certainly, ah, okay, yeah, good, I feel good. Let's do this. So that was a big difference.

Did you do much in terms of like self quantification? Like, did you look at inflammation or testosterone or anything like that?

But I didn't at the time when I first did it, only in the last couple of years. Again, obviously speaking to you, Ben, and listening to your podcast and becoming very health conscious, have I looked at that. But at the time when I quit, I didn't really have a comparison of what was my testosterone levels before I quit and what was my testosterone levels after. I wish I had, that would have been a great.

Yeah, I'd be curious because they have done those studies, you know, where they look at before and after multiple drinks. And there's always a drop in testosterone in most cases when we're looking at a pretty serious bender, people, men specifically, winding up with the testosterone levels of an eight year old girl after a night of drinking. But I was just curious if you had done any of that type of testing. The other thing is that when we get into the salacious headlines here, you certainly say that it helped you make more money and get a job hosting Sports center on ESPN and that type of thing. Let's delve into some of that and, and how that, you know, how you feel that all, you know, that success was directly related to you quitting drinking alcohol. Do you have some stories about that?

Yeah, yeah, sure. So when I was drinking alcohol, I found that I was hanging around with a certain type of person. They were great people, they were fun people, but they were party people. And I got distracted. And not only did I get distracted, but I found I was irritable. Like when I was drinking, I was just like a little bit more moody. I was just kind of, I started to get a little bit jealous of other people. I was envious. And it's hard to say, yeah, it's a direct result of the drinking from a biological point of view. But for me, I know like when I was drinking and when I was partying and when I was living that lifestyle, I was hanging out with people who like to drink, who like to party, who like to live that lifestyle. When I stopped drinking, when I quit the drinking, what I found is that all of my relationships changed. And again, I'm not saying that the party people were bad people, I'm just saying they're a different type of person. But when I stopped drinking, I started attracting into my life people who were more focused on business, on productivity, on spirituality, on positivity, on glass half full, glass half empty. The kind of people who would speak highly about people and would rarely speak negatively about people. Not to again. I mean it's not, it wasn't like a huge, huge, huge thing at times. It was just a subtle change. And I noticed the difference between the type of type of people. Other times it was just really, really obvious, you know, the type of person that was in my life. But then starting to surround myself with those people, those positive people, starting to surround myself with that mindset all of a sudden changed my whole thinking on all of my relationships, both platonic and Romantic. So let's deal with the romantic relationships. Initially, I was like going out and I've been drinking and I was a single man and I'd see a pretty woman at a bar or out in the street and I'd go, I'm going to chase that woman, I'm going to conquer that woman. She's my prey. And I would get the short term fix of either picking her up or knowing that I could pick her up. And that was great. And it didn't really matter what type of woman she was as a person, as long as she was hot and attractive and I was a man and my testosterone was going up and I'm a man and she's the woman, I'm just gonna chase her and that's that. Right? Whereas after I stopped drinking, I started really appreciating an elegant woman, an intelligent woman, having intelligent conversation, having sophisticated, more mature conversations. And so when I started enjoying that, those women just started appearing, those women just started appearing in, in my life. And so I found that the quality of my romantic relationships went through the roof versus before, when I was drinking, when it was more like in the moment, just kind of like, I'm a man, you're a woman, let's do this.

Right, right. Interesting, yeah, huh?

And from a, and, and from a, just to finish the answer to your question from a, from a professional point of view in relation to the Sports center gig, before, when I was drinking, I would go into relationships thinking, hey, how can this person help me? Like, I'd meet a new person, I go, how can this person help me? And then when I stopped drinking, when I had that clarity of mind, I started looking at all new people that I met as how can I help this person? And so why do you think that is? I just had the clarity. I mean, I had the poison out of my system. I had a clear mind, I was sleeping a lot better. I had the time to actually focus on what it is that I really want. So instead of going out and getting drunk on a Thursday, Friday, Saturday night, or even a Tuesday and Wednesday night, and then waking up in a drunken haze and sort of being hungover and lethargic, I would focus on what are my goals, what do I really want? How can I get here? What can I achieve? How can I be a better person? How can I help my friends? And then even if I wasn't thinking that on a Tuesday night, just by virtue of the fact that I'd wake up on a Wednesday morning and be fresh headed and feel fresh mentally I created the space to be able to think of only positive things, to ways that I could help people, to how I can achieve my dreams, to how I can achieve my goals. Because how can we actually create space for ourselves if we're hungover and we're tired and lethargic all the time? So actually having that peace of mind and that clarity and being alcohol and poison free really changed my whole mindset from one of go, go, go, go, go and, and like in the moment and, and just short term pleasures and drinking and chasing girls and partying and having fun like that too. How can I get enjoyment and derive pleasure from my life as a whole on the long term?

Yeah. Rather than racing down the highway on a motorcycle with a loose woman hanging off the back of, of the motorcycle type of thing.

That sounds pretty good. As you're describing it.

I don't want to turn you back to drinking. So, you know, I'm curious. You talked about like, like poison in your system and that type of thing. And you know, I'm sure you've probably gotten this question before because I know I'm not the first person you've talked to about the fact that you don't drink alcohol, but what do you say to the people who are like, well, you know, maybe you just had a self control problem. Maybe you should have just learned to have one drink so that it wasn't poison in your system. Or did it ever cross your mind to say, okay, well, I'm just going to be one of those guys who has a beer or a glass of wine with dinner every day. Why didn't you just use that kind of glass of wine a day type of approach instead of quitting cold turkey?

Yeah, sure. Well, I used to smoke cigarettes, Ben. I smoked cigarettes for about 10 years. Pecket of Benson Hedges Extra Miles. They were down in Australia or Marlborough Lights, probably about a half pack a day for about 10 years.

Were you one of those guys in the, like the Australian horse commercials? You know, riding the horse down the, down the wilderness with the cigarette hanging outside of your mouth?

I was the city version, you know, working in a newspaper with a suit.

And tie with the cigarette hangout, Hugh Jackman, Wolverine look.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so I smoked cigarettes and I had tried to quit a few times. I'd quit a few times and then started up again. And I always remember that it was a slippery slope. So I would quit. Say, like, let's say I smoked for eight years and then I quit for six months and then I'd go out and Then someone have a cigarette, I'll just give me a little puff and I'd take a little puff and that was fine. And then a couple nights later, because I'd had that puff a couple nights earlier, I'd say, oh, just let me have a couple puffs. And so I take a couple puffs and then the next night I'm like, ah, you know what, Just give me, I'll just smoke half a cigarette and smoke half a cigarette. Then the next night it was like, you know, I'll just have one. And then it was just this slippery slope. It's just a slippery, slippery slope. And so then I, you know, a week, two weeks later, I was back to smoking half a pack of cigarettes again. And so I just knew that for me and drinking, the minute that I started having a drink, I would probably go on that slippery slope. I was comparing it to my, to my smoking days. Now your listener might be thinking, well, this guy's got no self control. He's got no self discipline. Bear in mind, I was not an alcoholic. People like to think that I was, because it's a nice story, right? Why would this guy just quit drinking just because he enjoyed the health benefits and the clarity business? You know, clarity benefits and all that kind of stuff. I was never an alcoholic. I never drank in a crazy way where I caused damage or harm. I was just a good, fun, solid binge drinker. But when I quit the alcohol and I started to really see the benefits and I enjoyed the benefits. And I loved the clarity and I loved the fact that by helping people, that indirectly or directly rather led to me realizing a 20 year dream of hosting SportsCenter on ESPN. And I realized that I looked better and I realized that I was attracting better women into my life. And I realized that I was getting more productive and that I was making more money and I was more focused. I was like, why go back on this? Why even put a beer to my mouth just once a night or once a week? Because it's a slippery slope. Now I don't know whether, I mean, listen, here's the thing. I'm going to drink again, Ben. I'm sure I will drink again one day. And I'm sure that it'll just be a couple drinks here, a couple drinks there, and I'll enjoy it and I'll savor it. But right now I just enjoy the positive benefits and they outweigh the immediate pleasures that I get from drinking.

And you may also be interested in the research that they did on red wine in which they found that all the beneficial heart healthy effects of red wine were due to all the components of red wine that were besides alcohol. And so in one study, they actually compared non alcoholic red wine to alcoholic red wine and it was found that all the health benefits were actually derived from the non alcoholic red wine. So it's, it's, it's interesting from a health standpoint too. You know, some people think it's the alcohol that's actually healthy for you and maybe if it de stresses you a little bit that that could be the case. But in fact, you know, when we're talking about polyphenols and resveratrol and all of that, there doesn't actually have to be, you know, ethanol that goes hand in hand with that in order for you to get a, get a health benefit.

But that's, I'll tell you what's a good de stressor. I'll tell you what's a good, a better de stressor than drinking the alcohol. Exercise. I mean, my exercise just went through the roof as soon as I quit drinking. Partly because I woke up earlier fresher. I didn't have anything to do. I'm like, oh, I better go and do some exercise. Better do something. So exercise is a great way to relieve stress. I mean, trust me, I drank for years. It's awesome. I love drinking. It's great. And there are times where I miss it. And all these studies come out, Ben, that point to the probability that light drinkers live longer and are healthier than strict teetotalers like me. I mean, I've read those studies like a glass a day is actually healthy for you. But I don't know, I stopped drinking completely. I eat better, I've become much more health conscious. I exercise a lot. My relationships are better. If it's working, I'm just going to keep going.

I think part of that too is personality, relationships and a few of the other things that you touched on. I do think that there are certainly a lot of people who aren't drinking but who also don't have any social life whatsoever and that potentially could be holding them back from a longevity standpoint. You're actually one of the few guys I know who doesn't drink. And I'm not saying this to kiss off, I'm saying, I'm just saying to make a point to our audience, but is also fun to hang out with and knows how to go to social events and have a good time and not necessarily drink. And so I think that there's something to be said for that too. And that actually leads me to. The next thing I want to ask you is what in the heck you do at a party or at a bar to make other people around you not feel uncomfortable when you're standing around at a social event and you're, you know, you're not the guy drinking? Because I'm sure it has to go above and beyond, like holding an Aquafina water bottle or something like that.

Well, you know what? I used to worry about it when I first started doing it, and my friends didn't really warm to the idea initially. They were like, what are you doing? I piss off. You're an Australian who doesn't drink. Are you serious? Just have one. Just have one. Come on, don't be a clown. What are you doing? And then some idiots would actually go to the bar and get me a drink. I'd say, what do you want? I say, get me a soda water. And they'd come back and they would have slipped vodka in it. And I would, you know, luckily I. Luckily I would put it to my. To my nose and smell it first. And. And I was too smart for them.

But you're like, I'm Australian. I could smell booze a mile away.

Yeah, exactly. So, you know, you do run into that issue in the beginning, depending on who you. Who your friends are and who you hang out with, obviously. But, you know, I just got through that first little hump of the first couple of months of that pressure of people saying, what are you doing? Like, I don't understand. And then after that, it actually became. Became quite easy. So I'll tell you this, Ben. There's a big difference between telling someone that you don't drink and telling someone that you quit drinking. So if someone says to me, why aren't you drinking alcohol? When I said, I don't drink, people would look at me and go, what? What? I don't. Ah. And I would actually see in their eyes, they'd be like, this guy's like a douche. Like, this guy's pompous. This guy thinks he's too good for us. But if I said I quit drinking, the reaction was very different. The reaction was, oh, really? Tell me about that. Now, initially, they're thinking that I was an alcoholic, and I say, oh, I was never an alcoholic. I just drank a lot. And I just, you know, on occasion as a good binge drinker. And then I stopped, and I just like the health benefits of not doing it. And they're like, oh, really? Tell me more and then they become quite interested.

You've never used, like, the order, because I've done this before. Ordered, like, a soda water with a splash of cranberry and a wedge of lime, just. Just to make it look like you're drinking, like a. Like a vodka crayon or something like that.

It's funny, I did exactly that in the first week that I stopped. When I went out on a first date with a lovely girl called Andrea. I went to the Jones Bar on Santa Monica Boulevard in Hollywood, and I felt a bit awkward that first. That was my first date. And so I did exactly that. And I tried to disguise it, and I went out with her, and I got through the night. She didn't realize that I was only. That I wasn't drinking alcohol, unfortunately. We went to the Coachella Music festival about two weeks later, and I was there with her and her friend. And her friend said, oh, I'll get some drinks. What do you want? And I said, oh, nothing. Just a. Just a Coke. She goes, come on, I'll get you a drink. And I said, oh, I don't drink. And Andrea, the girl who I'd taken on day, said, what? Oh, what do you mean? What do you mean you don't drink? And I said, I kind of quit drinking. She goes, no, you were drinking alcohol when we had our first date. And I said, no, I wasn't actually. I was drinking. That was just, you know, soda with cranberry juice. She goes, so you tricked me? And I said, yeah, I kind of did. And she was really angry.

Like, she was.

She was upset. And I learned a very valuable lesson there, which is just own it. Just own it. Don't try to hide it. Just own it. And don't put it into people's face. Like, I quit drinking. I don't drink. Look at me. I'm so great. Don't do that. Just order whatever it is that you want to order. And then when they ask you and they say, oh, you're not drinking, just explain it very matter of factly, I quit drinking. I'm only going to drink soda. I'll have a ginger ale with you. I'm only going to drink water. And then as long as you're saying, I quit drinking, and you just explain that it's a health thing. People have. People are very understanding. People are very understanding. And if they're not, quite frankly, they're not the type of person that I want to be hanging out with.

Yeah. Or even. Even, it seems to me, I don't know if you Ever thought about this? But just to say I'm not drinking, like what about that? Like it could. Because I've certainly, for example, eight weeks before I go do like Ironman Hawaii or some killer physical event, I am literally not drinking. It's not that I quit drinking or it's not that I don't drink. It's that at that point in time, I'm not drinking. Have you used that strategy before, gauge people's response to that type of phrase?

I didn't at the time. And I think it would seem a little bit strange right now because it's been four and a half years in where I haven't been drinking. So to say I'm not drinking sort of implies that I'm not drinking in the last couple of weeks or the last little, little month. So I'd be curious to find out what reactions people get when you say that.

But usually people initially, they think you're the dd and that is just because you're, you know, you're driving. But yeah, yeah, interesting.

But you know, I've met other people out and about who say I'm not drinking, I'm just taking a couple of weeks off and I'm like, cool, that's awesome. And it's no big deal. I mean it's a lot of this thing is just changing your mindset, Ben. It's just like what is the norm if you're hanging out with a bunch of friends and you're drinking a lot and that the drinking culture is very prevalent. I would just test it, like do a little two week test where you don't drink and then just tell them that you're not drinking and see what they say, see how they react. I mean people are pretty good. Some people are not. Some people will chastise you for it and make fun of you for it. But most people, you'd be surprised. Most people are very understanding and okay. And like, oh yeah. All right, let's move on.

I believe you. The self quantification nerd in me wants to try this out as an experiment and you know, using either myself, you know, and I am like, I'm typically a glass of wine a day type of person or someone else and actually look at, you know, do do a pre measurement of like, you know, total and free testosterone, all the liver enzymes, hs, CRP for inflammation, thyroid, and just basically go say a year or even six months and see what happens. From a, from a laboratory standpoint, that'd be interesting. And by the way, if you are a listener listening in perhaps we can, you can contact me, we can convince Wellness FX or one of these other lab testing companies to give us some lab tests just as part of a grand experiment. So unfortunately, James, you'd be out since you already quit, but.

Yeah, yeah, I would be. I mean I would have loved to have tested my pre drinking and post drinking hormones. But I tell you this, if your listener wants to go, wants to see a photo of me pre quitting alcohol and then a photo of me today, look, you can just see it in my face. Like you can just see it in my face.

Yeah, I actually got, I have that photo. I linked over to your website where you wrote an article. But I also, I put that photo over at on the show notes for this episode. If you're listening in, you can go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com booze and I actually have a photo of James and link over to his podcast and his website as well. But, but they actually are some pretty interesting photos. You've got like a before and after photo of yourself which you can see like your face is, well, it's, it's fatter, but it's also obviously inflamed.

Yeah, absolutely inflamed. That's exactly the word. It's, I call it my fat photo. My fat photo. And I've just, my face is just very full, isn't it? It's just puffy. It's kind of like, I mean, it's not like I'm, I'm obese, but it's, there's a bit of marshmallow man going on there. You know, you could see the double chin, you can see the puffiness around the cheeks and around the eyes. And now you look at the photo of me today and you know all that fat's been, been, been stripped away and the jawline is exposed and I just look exactly how I feel like I'm supposed, supposed to look. So I mean again, I would love, I would have loved to have got my hormones checked and that would be a fascinating test to see. But like I just do the mirror test. Have a look in the mirror. How do you look? That's a good indicator.

Yeah. I've got one other question for you. As far as giving up alcohol. You mentioned I used to smoke cigarettes. But I'm curious if you found that you had a tendency towards other vices once you stopped drinking alcohol. Like if you, if somehow psychologically you were like, I'm not drinking alcohol. So that means that I am going to, you know, whatever, start tying Fireworks to cat's tails and lighting fireworks or doing some other vice that took the place of alcohol. Was there anything else you found?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exercise. I know.

Positive vice.

Yeah, I mean, I know it's a positive habit. Yeah, it was a habit. I mean, I didn't pick up any bad habits. Habits other than maybe eating a bit too much white rice and Thai food. Like maybe my. Maybe the portions of my food went up ever so slightly because I wasn't drinking. But in terms of a positive, something positive exercise. I mean, I became addicted to exercise, which was quite. Was quite interesting. I mean, not addicted to the point where I'm like seven days a week, every single day, one hour. But like, I played rugby, but like, I trained on a Tuesday, I trained on a Thursday, and then I played on a Saturday, and that was three days a week, and that was it. But then when I quit the drinking, I went to gym on a Monday, training on a Tuesday, gym on a Wednesday, training on a Thursday, day off Friday, playing rugby on the Saturday, and maybe going for a run on a Sunday. I also ran a marathon in New York. Ran the New York marathon. I ran a couple of half marathons. One in Los Angeles, one out in the Bronx in New York. And I just became addicted to waking up in the morning and going to the gym. And I became addicted to the endorphins that I felt from exercise. So advice, I guess what was a negative that came out of me quitting drinking? Maybe the portions of my food went up ever so slightly, but it didn't really matter because I was still dumping so much weight from not putting in the bad calories and not eating the crap food that I would eat with the alcohol. That whatever extra food I was eating was just counted by that.

Yeah, yeah. And I think that's the big one for people is a lot of folks say, well, you know, whatever, I'm drinking healthy versions of alcohol or I'm just drinking red wine. But that's what I see is so often there are so many other things, things that go along with a drinking habit that come back to bite you. And honestly, it's not just calories. A big part of it is money. Like, my wife and I are at the point now where we keep a box of organic red wine. And it is purposefully a box, because when you open a bottle, you want to finish the bottle, right? Because if you cap it, it might only last a week, and then it's crappy. But these boxed wines actually last a pretty long time and they taste really good. I don't know if it's box technology has come a long ways or what, but we keep a box of red wine, we have one glass, anything from five to seven days a week. And we don't go out and spend money on alcohol or go out and do cocktail hour at the bar and stuff like that. And I think a lot of people may or may not realize how much of a dent it puts in your wallet. Too huge when you're out spending nowadays. 8 to $16 easily for a cocktail. And so I think that's a big part of this too is not just the all the added calories you're probably going to take in from peanuts or hors d' oeuvres or whatever else when you're drinking, but also the money and then if you don't stop at one, at least also the health effects. So, you know, there's a lot to be said for quitting or reducing. For sure.

I would say about $10,000 a year, conservatively I think is what I saved in just alcohol and alcohol related costs. And when I say alcohol related costs.

It'S like I said, you're breaking in people's windows with sledgehammers after you get raging drunk downtown. Is that what you're referring to?

Yeah. No, Ben, I wouldn't do that. You know, the late night burgers, the late night fries, getting a taxi, getting taxis home because you can't, because you can't drive a big one. Yeah, all of these things, these things add up. And then of course you're going to get sick if you're hungover, right? Your body's going to get run down and so you're going to go and buy antibiotics to make you feel better. You know, you're going to go and buy cold and flu tablets because you're going to be sick. You're going to lose work days or productivity if you run your own business because you're sick. So you lose a few days here, a few days there, which you know, directly affects your incomings and your ability to be able to generate revenue. I mean, all of these things, all these things really add up. And then imagine if you have some kind of long term problem, like health problem, like we were talking, like liver disease or cancers or gastrointestinal problems or high blood pressure, you know, dementia. Also drinking is a depressant. It puts you in a negative mood. So if you're in a negative mood, that's obviously affecting your ability to do your job effectively. It's affecting your ability to Be able to generate revenue for your own business. It's affecting your relationships with people. So I'd say ten grand in saved costs in alcohol and alcohol related activities and then I can't even put a price tag on the health that health benefits or what I would have to spend on my health correcting problems if I continued with the way that a regular drinker over a lifetime does.

Yeah, it's very interesting when you weigh up the pros versus the cons. I think that when you talk about the health effects of not drinking, I'm of the camp that is still at the glass of wine a day. I'm into that because it doesn't cost me a lot of money and I do feel that there are de stressing and health effects and you're not drinking to the point where it becomes, becomes a depressant. But, you know, the reason that I wanted to get you on the podcast, James, is I talk to so many people, triathletes, you know, even my own clients in many cases, and they're just like, you know, they get to the weekend and they're doing five glasses of wine or you know, between Friday and Sunday a couple of bottles of wine or, you know, going through four beers on a weekday after a stressful day of work. And you know, I think it's important that people realize that a you can fit in socially and be a cool person like James. And again, go look at all his photos and stuff over@BenGreenfieldFitness.com booze he's not an introverted loser. He's actually out there having a good time but not drinking.

Oh, thank you, Ben.

Yeah, no worries, man. That's the best comment or the best compliment you'll receive all year, right? He's not an introverted loser. But. But also, you know, it can be done. You can still fit in socially. And you know, in James's case, when you look at just his body and the way that everything changed when he stopped, maybe you do need to make that choice to stop, you know. Well, you know, James, for you it started with a day and turned into four years, you know, and who knows if that'll happen to you if you're listening in, but at least try it, you know, try it for a week, see what happens. I think it'd be interesting. So, James, thanks for coming on, man, and sharing this stuff with us.

Ben, it was my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.

So check it all out@BenGridgewaldFitness.com booze I'm going to link over to James Swanik's website on there too, and also his Alpha Male Club podcast, which is a pretty cool podcast to listen into. So check all of that out. And thanks for listening.

Visit BenGreenfieldFitness.com for even more cutting edge fitness, nutrition and performance advice.

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