How Something Called Pulsed Electromagnetic Field Therapy Can Make You Sleep Like A Baby (And Do Much More Than That).

Hey, folks, this is Ben Greenfield, and we've mentioned on the show a few times the concept of pulsed electromagnetic field therapy and the use of electric fields and magnetic fields to do things like help injuries to heal. And specifically, the thing we've talked about most concerning is dealing with PEMF and something like chronic pain. But I actually was recently made aware of a device, a home device, that actually uses pemf, and I was able to get the inventor of the device onto today's show to kind of talk about what pulse electromagnetic field therapy can be used for and some of the ways that it actually works. Because this stuff can be kind of hard to understand. I know. And it can also be concerning when we're talking about electric fields in the human body. I know a lot of people can get concerned about the health effects and all that. So we're just going to delve really deeply into this and kind of geek out on the science of PEMF and how it works and how it can help you with everything from sleep to recovery to performance, how to practically implement it, and so on. So, Paul, thank you so much for coming on the call today to talk about this.

Hey, it's my pleasure.

So, Paul, you've got this device, and I'll be sure to link to it over at the show. Notes for this podcast@BenGreenfieldFitness.com but it's called the Earth Pulse. Can you kind of describe to me just right off the bat, what exactly is the Earth Pulse? Why is it named Earth Pulse, and what's the background behind it?

Okay, well, I was, when I got out of law school and was studying for the bar exam, I think I spent more time studying electromedicine than I spent studying my bar notes. The reason that, you know, I was bartending in Las Vegas, I was getting sick all the time, and I happened to stumble across a little device that pulsed electricity into your pulse points on your wrist. And in fact, when I discovered it, I was carrying the flu. Shouldn't have been out in public, but I was. And I got over it really quick. And I didn't get sick again for years. I mean, I only got sick this last year, this winter, after 17 years. The first time I was down with a fever. But anyway, I was working with this technology, having some little devices built and such, and my dad was diagnosed with Parkinson's disease. So after basically burning myself out, trying to figure out why this stuff didn't work on my dad, the year after he died, I came across a line of studies using Pulsed electromagnetic fields versus electric stem. And so I dove into that body of scientific papers and started reading.

So what you'd been using up to that point was like electrical stimulation, not chemical therapy.

Okay, exactly. I was using rife. I was using this Beck blood pulsar, which is a great technology to get yourself healthy. And basically your immune system has nothing left to fight. So it gets really strong. So you get any bugs that attack you, you know, there's a lot of juice there to fight it off. So anyway, so I started studying this technology for Parkinson's disease and developed a device, had a friend with a friend, very good old friend of his with Parkinson's that we guinea pigged on and, and it worked phenomenal right out of the gate. But what, what I found the very first day I picked it up on a, on a pot of espresso coffee because, because my, my routine was, was work on the Internet when it was fast. You know, don't forget this is back in 99, 2000. And the patent websites were very, very, very slow until about 2:00 clock in the morning. And so until 6, I get up at noon, drink a pot of coffee and then go play all day and then come back home, eat dinner and then go to work. So on a pot of coffee, I drive across town, pick up this device, this, you know, prototype and drive it home. And I'd been suffering at 40 from some neurological deficits. My surfing had gone to crap, my timing was off in the water. I had bad shoulder, my rotator cuff was just shot. 22 dislocations. I counted them one by one over 16 years. So I was having a hard time with a full swing, holding my golf club, surfing was, was almost, almost non existent. So I wanted to, I was hoping that this thing, besides working on Parkinson's disease, would have an effect on this brain fog that I developed and this neurological deficit where my balance was off and my driving sucked and all of this stuff. So anyway, I put it under my pillow, draw the blind so it's dark, which came out of the park and sees it.

You put it under your pillow. So this is something that you actually put, attach it to your body?

No, it's a non contact device, always has been. But now we generally run from under the mattress. But I put it under the pillow because my main complaint besides the shoulder was my brain. I felt that I was losing my edge at 40 and I wasn't looking forward to 60 and 70. If I was looking at 40 and realizing I'd had these deficits Next thing I know, it's 3:30 in the afternoon. Two and a half hours had passed. I sit up, one of those where am I? What day is today? Kind of things. And soon as my feet hit the ground, I, I just felt completely centered. Like martial arts centered when you've been doing horse riding stance and learning how to anchor into the ground. So I knew something had changed. I went outside, I walked around the pool like a tightrope on the lip while I was dialing the guy with Parkinson's disease telling him, I think I hit the nail on the head because this thing worked on me phenomenally well. I mean, it was just like somebody threw the light switch on. So anyway, so you know, to keep that whole medical thing out of the, out of the discussion over the course of the next few days, I wanted to see how, just how good this device was at inducing sleep. So I slept, you know, nice, nice out, you know, two, two and a half hour nap from about 1 to 3:30. I went to bed that night at my normal 6:00am I got up at noon to pee because I was on a six hour schedule with that, you know, at 40, was already having to get up at night to take a leap six hours in. I was like, okay, let me see if this thing will put me back down again. Laid back down, Woke up at 6pm, another six hours, had to pee again. Went Pete, figured, you know, what the hell, I'll lay down again and see if it'll put me out. I woke up at midnight, 18 hours in three different shifts. And this is after sleeping the six hours and only being up, you know, for, for part of the day. So anyway, I definitely knew that I, you know, come up with something that was going to have an impact on sleep over the course of that weekend because I got it on Memorial Day Friday and that was my Friday night into Saturday. On Saturday, after getting up at midnight, I went into my computer. First time I'd been on the computer that day. Sat down, my fingers just flew on. I mean I use very tough passwords and my fingertips just flew through my password. I was like, what the heck? You know, I mean it was, it was to my, to my brain. It was remarkable how fast my fingers moved. So I worked for six hours and I'm like, you know, if I don't get some sleep now, I'm going to shoot my day out. So after being up six hours only, I went to sleep and I woke up at noon. At noon I decided, you know, I could stay up or I could further Push this and see will it put me down again? And so I laid back down and I woke up at 6. So after 18 hours of sleep, being awake for six hours, I slept 12 more hours. Now, let me caution it. This doesn't work like this for everyone, but it was kicking me in the ass like, dude, you got to develop this thing because this could be really, this could really have a major impact on humanity, you know?

Right.

So, so I got up at 6 again and worked through the night, went to bed at 6am, woke up at no and decided, okay, I've slept enough. There's no way I'm going to sleep anymore.

So that's a lot of sleep.

That's a lot of sleep. Right.

So I'm sure people are concerned at this point that if they were to ever use this, they might not be actually productive.

Well, the thing is, once you get that sleep debt taken care of and I encourage my new clients over their first weekend when they got it to sleep in that weekend, you know, definitely, like recharge the sleep batteries. So anyway, so what I noticed on the third day was that the numbness in my fingertips was no longer there. That arm that had the severely trashed shoulder, I had ringing pain down through my elbow and numb fingertips. And I realized that although the pain wasn't completely gone, the fingertips weren't numb anymore. And those fingertips had been numb for years. Wasn't a come and go thing. It was, it was numb. When I duck dived, the times when I would surf, I'd have to bear hug the board with my left hand because I had no grip strength. I mean, with my left arm, I'd wrap my arm around the board and then control it with my right hand on that rail when I push under white water. So anyway, we got a swell a couple of days later and I'm thinking, you know, my shoulder doesn't feel really that bad and the surf is good enough. So I went for a surf and although, you know, my shoulder was still dragging a little bit and my fingertips were on the recovery stroke or in the water, the very first wave I stood up on and turned. As soon as I turned, my brain was just like, whoa, dude, you're back. I mean, I, I went down, flew down the line on that wave. You know, we lived in Florida, we get some really good serve sometimes. And it was very, very good that day. And I just, I cooked out and I kicked out and I just screamed at the top of my lungs because it was like, man, I was. I knew then that my Brain was back to normal, you know, that my body was listening to my brain on the same pace that it had most of my life, except for the last six years or so, because there was, you know, some definite brain fog there. And I know a lot of people deal with brain fog, and much of that problem is due to holding a cell phone to your head.

Right. Well, I mean, it sounds like when you were using this pulse electromagnetic field device, that it was having a lot of positive benefit for you. But, you know, I want, I want to delve into kind of, you know, how something like this actually works on, on a physiological level. So when you've got something, you know, let's, let's go ahead and say something like, you know, under your pillow or under your mattress, you've got pulse electromagnetic fields getting churned out while you're sleeping. And I do want to talk to you. I want to talk about the health effects of that in a second. But sure.

A very particular, A very particular frequency range.

Right.

And this is, this is the thing, you know, where people get hung up with EMFs and pulsed EMFs or PEMFs. Okay. It's all about the frequency waveform. Yeah, there's. There's some, you know, there's some things to be concerned about there, but it's frequency, man. You get over 20 hertz, you're debilitating the mitochondria, you're debilitating the brain. You get, you know, into power, frequency area. You're talking about cancer because you're way past 20. You're debilitating the mitochondria.

That's what I was going to ask you about, just because we've had someone come on and talk quite a bit about cell phone radiation, the concern about pulse radiation from a cell phone, microwave radiation, stuff like that. So these are at different frequencies?

Well, yeah, they're pulsed microwave. Okay. So they're actually pulsing it on a biologically active rate, which is quite low. I've read some places. 7, 10, 8, 9, 10, which is where my device pulses.

So it's different than, like a cell phone.

Totally different, because they're pulsing microwave. And you look at the early studies, before science was overrun by money and special interests, and the very earliest studies showed genetic damage from. From minutes of exposure of pulse microwave. And here they've got these devices that people are holding up to their side of their brain. It's insanity.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I, I own one, but I always use it on speaker.

So how exactly does a pulsed electromagnetic field do that? Like, for Example cause you to sleep more. Let's start with that. I want to get into performance effects, but how, on a practical level, would something like this cause you to sleep as much as you did when you first got it in terms of improving sleep quality?

Brainwave entrainment. There are a lot of programs out there on CD that they tune your brain, they condition your brain to follow an impulse, the binaural beats. It's kind of complicated the way it reacts to that. But just let's talk about the effect of an external stimuli on the brain. And when you pulse a repetitive signal at the brain, your brain will try and match that frequency. I forget the scientists that discovered. You know, the classic example is you take two clocks with pendulums or two pendulums, and you swing them out of sync and you leave and you come back six or eight hours later, and now they're swinging in sync with each other. And basically that's where the, where the entrainment first was discovered. But the brain has an inherent ability to try and match external stimuli. So you're pulsing a rhythm through your mattress or through your pillow to the body and your, your neurological system, which is, I don't know, tens of thousands of miles of very sensitive wiring is picking it up like an antenna. And that beat frequency, when it's very, very slow, it. Your brain can match that frequency.

So how would this be different than like, using, you know, a CD or a sound, you know, because I know there's, like, you mentioned CDs. I also know there's. There's cell phone apps out there that, you know, put you to sleep by affecting your brainwaves. Like, I've got one on my, on my cell phone. It's called the, the piezo or something like that. But how is, how is pulse electromagnetic field working differently than like an audio.

You know what, except for the comfort level, where you're not having to listen to say, see, okay, except for the comfort level is working exactly the same way. Instead of the signal going auditory through the ear canal into the brain, it's actually blanketing the whole brain, actually blanketing your body. Because when this thing pulses, when you get a pulse of magnetics, now you have triangular wave devices that are time varying. So it's an expanding and contracting field where my device is a square wave. So when that leading edge pops and that, that magnetic field generate is generated, that pulse wave projects itself at the speed of light. So it goes 186,000 miles per second in all directions. So it's hitting your toes and your brain at exactly the same time. So it's, it's, it's affecting your brain in the same way that sound would only, I don't know, 100 times better, probably.

Gotcha, Gotcha. Okay, makes sense. So basically we've got amplification of brainwaves, and we've touched on that a little bit on the show before in terms of what happens to your brainwaves as you're sleeping. But essentially what you're doing is you're affecting the brain waves with a pulse electromagnetic field.

Exactly. For sleep or for studying and using it in alert mode, where it will keep you in a, in a, you know, a moderately low beta stage so that you're in a thought, thought provoking concentrating state, you know, without like alpha brainwaves. Basically low beta, but right next, right next to high alpha.

Okay, gotcha. So when we're looking at this for sleep, obviously that makes sense. And it does kind of align with what I've studied and heard in terms of brainwave amplification with audio devices, or in this case, I wasn't aware you could do it with a pulsed electromagnetic field, but it makes sense. Now let's turn to somebody who say, you know, wants to improve their performance. How does this work on, on that level? And I do want to ask you about recovery as well, because that's tied into sleep. But first I want to, I want to talk about maybe ways in which this might be able to improve an athlete's performance or help someone with their workouts or if someone were to sleep with it, say like the night before an Ironman triathlon or something like that, you know, how, how it could help with something like that or what the research says about this.

Sure. And, you know, and it is very much tied into, you know, recovering from injury as well, because the same pathways are involved. But, you know, there were. First. Let me, let me, let's talk about a couple of studies that were done in the last three or four years on sports performance and sleep. Okay. Where they, you know, they had one group and they made them sleep, you know, four or five hours or six hours before an event. And then they had another group and they slept, they forced them to sleep eight hours before an event. Now, their numbers were awfully high. Okay. Like, I had a hard time believing what their numbers were. And they, they, they mentioned something like, you know, 20% or 18%, some, something, you know, to me seemed very, very high.

Okay.

I mean, I could, I would think that, you know, you sleep four hours for a few nights and try and run a marathon. You're, you know, or a 440 or something, you know, you're, you're going to be pretty dragged out. But I had a hard time believing that there was a 20% or high teens percent difference in performance with just one night of curtailed sleep. Okay, but that being said, there are some studies, and I directed you to take a look at those. And what those studies show is that this particular frequency range, and let me take a step back. That first device that I have that knocked me out, that started to heal my old sports injuries, that was a 10 Hz device, 9.6 Hz. And the reason that I chose 9.6 was that in my study on electric stem, and then again in pulsed electromagnetics, I found a very distinct pattern around 10 hertz. That 10 hertz seemed to be the gold standard. There were a lot of studies on bone and this and that that showed beneficial effects, you know, with a thousand hertz, with 100 hertz, with. There are bone stimulators being sold right now that use power frequency. They use 50 or 60 hertz and you know, they show effect. But in those higher frequency studies, they show that it will stimulate early healing. But then the end result is no better than the controls. No stimulation. But these 10 Hz studies, particularly out of Eastern Europe, I mean, they were all the 10 Hz studies that I found, except for very few were out of Soviet era Russia, Czechoslovakia and Poland. And they were using 10 hertz on everything from optic nerve regeneration to glaucoma, to pain syndromes, to bone healing, wound healing, it's just everything. So I was already focused on 10Hz with my electric stim days. But what I uncovered was a study where a guy drove stakes deep into the ground, like 20ft down. Then he hooked up the metal stakes to amplifier and then ran it through a frequency counter. And what he found was a pulse, a resonating frequency at 9.6 Hz. And when I read this, I was like, you know, boom. There's the natural law. These people that they're using 10 hertz on, they were stimulating them with damn near close to what the planet put out. So in the old days, you're sick, you're laying on the ground on a straw mat. Yeah. Or you're sleeping on a bedroll on the ground, too sick to get up, but you're in touch with mother nature, you're laying horizontal and you're picking up that feed. And so it seemed to me that there was some biological law there. And that's where the Earth pulse name came from, because my first device was 9.6 hertz. And so with those studies that I tossed at you a few days back in 19, and this is where the sports performance comes in. In 1989, a guy named David Hood from a university in Canada, forget the name of the university, but he was, he's been messing around with 10 hertz. He's a mitochondrial specialist and he's been using 10 hertz stimulation in many, many studies. And I found this study in 1980, from 1989. And I only found this in like, I think it was 2008. I found this study after 30 days of 8 hours per day stimulation. And think in terms of 30 nights, 8 hours per night stimulation. He found that the two enzymes responsible for oxygen metabolism, the citrate synthase and cytochrome C. Right. The level, the levels tripled in the mitochondria.

Interest.

Triple. Okay, now you, if you look at the Krebs cycle and you start reading about the Krebs cycle, you find that citrate synthase is the pacer of the Krebs cycle. And when you look at the oxidative phosphorylation chart, you look at where the cytochrome C is, and it's responsible for one of the major, you know, pulling, pulling things through the mitochondrial membrane, right? Okay. So if you triple these enzymes that are very important components of, of the ATP generating process, you figure there's some pretty good stuff is going to be going on. All right? Now, when I discovered these studies, we had already been tracking our more athletic clients there. We've been tracking their breath hold. Because I, out of nowhere, you know, I mean, I'm a surfer. Back in, it was like 2004. I'd been on the device for a couple of years. And, you know, I mean, I smoke cigarettes and drink and have, have fun. And I, you know, I'm like, you know, I haven't held my breath in a while. I wonder, you know, how bad the cigarettes. These cigarettes are killing me. So I'm sitting in my car just killing some time, waiting for somebody, and I take a few deep breaths, you know, oxygen load for like 30 seconds, and I hold my breath. And to my surprise, I get two minutes. And my whole life I've been able to hold my breath for a minute and 15 seconds, maybe a minute and 20. All of a sudden I pop off two minutes. And I hadn't been training, I hadn't been doing much anything. Now, I mean, I have my Bowflex and stuff, but it wasn't like I was doing any aerobic work, anything that would affect my, my, my breath hold. So, you know, I was like, that was one of those eureka moments kind of, you know, it's like, you know, so what I did was I had this, picked up this swimmer, US Team swimmer, and, and he was the first other client I cross referenced myself on. And, and I'm like, hey, you know, how long can you hold your breath? He's like, I don't hold my breath for two and a half minutes. I'm like, you've had the device now for what, three weeks, something like that? I said, do me a favor, like when you get a chance, hold your breath for time and give me a call back and let me know what you get. So he calls me back a couple of days later and he held his breath for three minutes. And I'm like, wow, that's, you know, I mean, even in somebody in your shape, that's world class, you know, competitive shape, your breath hold went up, you know, 19%. So then what I asked him was, how far can you swim underwater? And he goes, I can swim the length of a 50 meter pool. I said, can you turn? No, I'm almost passing out. Are you pushing off or diving? He's like, pushing off. I said, okay. I said, next time you get some, get a chance in the pool. I said, see how far you can swim underwater and call me back. He calls me like he's in California, Stanford area training. And so he calls me back, it's like midnight that night. And he goes, he goes, dude, I just swam the length of the pool and halfway back, which, you know, he thought was 25%. And I'm like, oh, don't do that's 50% further. 50% further under load. Okay, so then that. Now you really start thinking about the chemistry of what's going on there, you know, in terms of lactic acid, in terms of free radical production, and turn, you know, every which way but Sunday, you're trying to figure out, okay, what's going on here now? So now that was in 2006, and when I found that, that study in 2008, that had been done in 1989, you know, boom, the light bulb went off. You know, so then I started digging through stuff, looking for, you know, mitochondrial studies and 10 Hz, because most of us that are, you know, most of the athletic people, they come to me not for the sleep effect, they come to me for the ergogenic effects. And so I started looking into I start trying to find studies that are showing, you know, that are using 10 hertz stimulation. And what I find is this other study by Tong, which is on the website. And I sent you the link to those studies where he just, he subjects, he's looking at the mitochondria at the nerve synapse, and he subjects it to a half a hertz and the synapse junction electrical potential drops 20%. And then he goes from a half a hertz to 10 hertz and within two minutes or three minutes, the energy at the synapse junction nearly tripled. So this is not something that takes a long time. It takes a while for your breath hold to get going and all your cells to detoxify and all this stuff. But the effect of, of the 10 Hz stimulation is nearly instantaneous.

Yeah, it's interesting just because, you know, a lot of the, well, the neuromuscular diseases, especially the neurodegenerative diseases you're talking about, like Parkinson's and Alzheimer's, they are related, I know, to a certain extent to the production of these free radicals and, you know, like reactive oxygen species. And what I find interesting about this is that I know a lot of people listening to the show are, you know, maybe they don't have Parkinson's or Alzheimer's, but they're more concerned about recovery. Can you talk a little bit about how enhancing the activity in the mitochondria in terms of buffering free radicals or holding off cellular degeneration could actually affect recovery?

Well, all right, let's, let's go to the NASA study. NASA was looking at nerve tissue regeneration. Okay. Which is, you know, not the easiest tissue to regenerate. So they're looking at nerve tissue regeneration and they've, they built a device and before they edited it or cleansed the study of too much information, I guess they were studying 5, 10 and 15 Hertz. What they found was that 5 Hertz doubled the rate of tissue regeneration. And this relates to bone or muscle tissue, whatever you want to, anything you throw at it. But 5 Hz stimulation doubled the rate of regeneration of the neurological tissue. Ten hertz quadrupled it, and 15 hertz doubled it. So basically a nice even bell shaped curve. So when you're looking at a muscle injury or a tendon injury or a bone break or any combination of those, you know, I mean, you're trying to reduce inflammation, push the, not so much reduce it, but complete the inflammation process as fast as possible so that the healing begins and you're back on Your feet and competing again. So what, Pulsed electromagnetic fields for, you know, for. For pretty much the entire time since they've been being investigated, I mean, since the early days, around the time they were discovering that it healed bone really quick, was that it reduced inflammation. But it didn't reduce it as much as make the inflammatory process complete itself in a much shorter period of time, in almost no time whatsoever, to the point where it looks like the inflammation process is going away. But what it's actually doing is it's actually speeding the inflammation process to the point where it goes through, you know, four or five days of inflammation in a few hours, and it blows all of the waste product out of the area, which is what the inflammation is designed to do, and then the healing begins. So, you know, when you heal you. When you hurt yourself, and I mean, it could be anything. I had a bicep or a guy who separated his bicep from the brachial tendon. So his biceps all jammed up in the top of. On the top of his arm. So it was over Christmas holidays, year, a little over a year ago. And he, you know, he's an old client of mine, he called me up. I said, man, just strap that thing to the arm with an ace bandage and, you know, and suffer until you can get in to see the surgeon, because it was just before Christmas, and he couldn't get it operated until just after. So the surgeon, after the surgery goes in, he tells him, he goes, man, that surgery took a couple hours longer. He said, I never seen so much healing occur in such a short period of time. We had stuff that we had to pull out of there that was, you know, masses of tissue that was. That were starting to grow and all this other stuff. So they attached it and they, you know, he said, well, how long am I going to be out of work? Because it was an industrial accident. And he goes, you know, 90 days. In 90 days, you can start physical therapy. Well, he goes in to see the doctor at two weeks, and the doctors, like, you know, looks at it, and he still had. Still had his cast on. He changed the cast and says, oh, it's healing really good, you know, blah, blah, blah. And so he puts a new cast on and he leaves, comes back two weeks later and takes it off. And he's like, you want to move the arm? Show me how your range of motion is. And so he just. The doctor is, like, just sitting there with his jaw hanging on his chest because the guy is literally going, look it. I can make a fist. I can Do a whole arm curl like this. And I have no pain. So the doctor is scratching his head and says, okay, well I guess I should schedule you for physical therapy. So he goes to physical therapy, does the first day, and the person is looking at the chart. And here it is, the end of January. And he's looking at a chart where the guy was or the beginning of February. And he's looking at a chart where he had, was operated on like 32 days before. And he goes, when were you operating on? He goes, January. I think it was. No, it was December in between Christmas in January. So it was like December 27th or 28th. And here it was at the beginning of February. And, and, and the per. The guy's like going, how the heck are you even here after, after an injury like this? And you know, he explained to me, so I got my secret device and it was just, I had it strapped to my arm 24 7. I mean, he didn't take any of the oxy's the doctor gave him. He had the backup medication. He didn't take any of that. I mean, you know, because he knew the stuff's poison so he didn't take it. And he was able, you know, he slept a lot, he, he laid around a lot. And all he did was use the earth pulse and sleep as much as possible because when he slept, he didn't have any pain and he slept a hell of a lot. So anyway, after the second trip into the physical therapy, they cleaned it, cleared him for work. He was back to work in five weeks instead of in physical therapy at 12.

Gotcha. Nice. Well, I'll put a link in the show notes to some of these studies that you've mentioned. So if folks want to go and read those, they can. But I want to talk to you in the, in the time that we have left about kind of practical inflammation or inflammation, practical information about how somebody would, would use pulsed electromagnetic field therapy, like just kind of best practices. Would you, would you use this every day? Or does your body get used to it? And so do you just want to use it when, when you really need it for, for example? And if you do use it, do you put it under your bed the whole night? Can you have it on in your office during the day and see an effect with that? I mean, if someone were to have a device like this. Oh, and also I wanted to ask you, how big is it? Just all the little things I know people will probably want to know about how to use something like this.

Okay. This particular device when it's shipped to you, the whole package weighs under two pounds. Okay. So it's very small. Comes a little zip case. You can put it in your briefcase or your carry on luggage or whatever. So it travels everywhere.

It's 110 fine. In terms of getting on airplanes, it doesn't have.

Yeah, you know what's really nice is that little zipper case with the cutouts and everything. It looks very, you know, legit. Okay, So I haven't heard of any. I've got, you know, many thousand people out there with them and not once have I heard of them, them being not let on an airplane because they had it. I generally put it in my, my, my carry on because when my luggage goes sideways and it doesn't land with me at the airport, at least I know I'm going to sleep good that night. So I always take it with me. But I don't live in the States anymore, so, you know, I don't know about the tsa, you know, today. I just know that I haven't heard anybody being, being stopped because of it in the past, you know, or in the recent past. Okay, so as far as use, I've had the device now since Memorial Day 2002. Memorial Day Friday, 2002. So I'm coming up on, on 10 years.

10 years and how many minutes?

Anyway, I have used the Device in the 10Hz mode, the 9.6Hz every night except for a few nights, you know, maybe two nights a month when I use the delta mode program because I had too much coffee too late in the night and I, you know, I lay, I lay in bed for 15 minutes. That's too long for me. So I'll roll over and I'll switch it into the delta mode program. And then it's pretty much, you know, goodnight, Irene. So it goes under the mattress. If you've been drinking, you put it under your pillow and it's a, it's an unbelievable hangover. Prophylactic. And, and that's just a, you know, that's a testament to how good it works at detoxing the cells.

Yeah. Improving cellular respiration.

Yeah. Because I mean, you run any of the other programs from under the pillow, you still get a headache. You run it from under the mattress in the recover mode, you still get a headache. But if it's under the pillow, and that's proof positive of certain things, you know, field amplitude required and field animal.

I thought that we're recommending that folks go out and get plowed and put one of These pillows. You're just saying, right?

Yeah, you know, I'm just saying. I mean, it does happen, you know. So you take, you know, you take this little inductor, it's about size of a hockey puck, you put it under your mattress and you set the timer because the timer is important, because it will wake up, wake you up in the morning. It shifts to alert late in the program so that it actually is tuning your brain to an alert state before your alarm goes off or before the device shuts down. So I've been using it every night for 10 years almost. I have not become conditioned to it. My breath hold is still. My breath hold topped out, by the way, at 2 minutes and 4 seconds. 2 minutes and 42 seconds. That was over years. And I don't like to do them, they're not pleasant. So I don't generally do them even once a year. So there was no practice related to it at all. But what my theory is, is that this thing stops the death of your cells, the ones that are savable, and basically nurses them back to health over a course of years. Instead of them getting worse and worse and worse and then going through apoptosis, dying and being replaced, which is part of the aging process, it actually revives those cells back to a healthy state. And it took me about, no, it wasn't seven years, 2007. So it was five years before my body was in peak, peak, peak shape in terms of utilizing oxygen. My, my breath hold now is about 2 minutes and 15 seconds. But you know, I've beaten myself up quite a bit in the last seven years, but, but I still stay in pretty good shape and it's remarkably easy if, if, you know, I mean, I'm 54 and you know, waking up with wood every morning, it's, you know, everything's still working. It's still working great. And Trust me, at 40, that was, that was done already. You know, I mean, maybe, maybe a pee boner, but that's about it, you.

Know, so there are other effects as well.

Yeah, man. And I got 90 year old men that were getting up five, five times a night to pee. They get up once, you know, 50 year old guys that get up, we're getting up two, three times a night to pee. And just in 90 days they're down to one, you know, so that gets into the whole inflammation thing too, you know, I mean, the, I don't know if you saw the video of the dog at 16, you know, that, that little dog was laying right on top of its, its Own magnet for eight and a half. I guess it's up to nine years now. And that dog, until the vet almost killed it last year, was jumping three times her height at 16 years old. I mean, that's, you know, I've seen old 16 year old dogs that look pretty good for their age. But this dog, even now where it doesn't have the jump height, still people think she's five years old.

Yeah. And you know, I personally, I sleep pretty well. I sleep about eight hours a night and don't really have much trouble. But one of the reasons that I was really interested in, in pulse electromagnetic field therapy was I started looking into it for pain control for some athletes and then kind of started to find out, find a lot of other stuff and also stumbled upon your device and realized that you can, you can use this stuff for a lot more than just sleep. So I want to ask you, because we do have folks who listen in who want to kind of learn more about this stuff before they take the leap and start using it, so to speak. Any books out there or anything like that that people could read to learn more about pulse electromagnetic field therapy or the safety of devices like this or anything like that?

Nope.

You've got these studies. Well, I'll tell you what, what I'll do is I'll link to these studies that you've been talking about over on the show notes for this podcast@BenGreenfieldFitness.com and.

You know, I mean, don't get me wrong, don't get me wrong, it's not like there aren't any books, but I mean, there's really no books written about anything that we've covered tonight except for, you know, medical Applications of Healing bone or whatever. You know, Oshman wrote a book. But I tried to debate Oshman at a trade show on Setup day. And that guy who's a PhD that should have loved to just, you know, tear me a new a hole. That guy avoided me for five days. I saw him walk halfway up my aisle and took turn a U turn and go down and take the cross thing and then go back and then go to the beer garden from there. You know, it's like, it's ridiculous. It's like this is in a completely different realm than anything that's come before it. You know, there are 25.

What about the physician, Robert Becker? I've seen some of, some of his stuff and I notice he has a few books out on, on kind of like, you know, electromagnetism and stuff like that.

Yeah, the book Electromagnetism in Life, I've got linked off my site. He wrote that with Andrew Marino.

How's that book?

It's actually pretty good, you know, but, but it was written, I think in the 80s and so, you know, I mean, look, when I had lunch with Dr. Becker a couple of times, I had the pleasure of visiting him at his house three times. You know, I didn't know enough about my technology in 2004 and 2005. You know, he died, I think, in 2007. And I only came across this mitochondrial stuff in 2008. I mean, my device was already six years old, you know, and we had a lot of talks about, you know, silver and silver ions and electric and DC current and wound healing and all of this stuff. And he had my device and it was helping him sleep. I was hoping it was going to get rid of his glaucoma, but, you know, he was already blind. And, you know, it was the one eye they termed it. They killed it. You know, they injected it with something to kill the eye. Because of the pain was so bad, he just had it taken out of its misery. And the other eye, he couldn't read anymore. So he's, you know, legally blind in both eyes. And I was hoping that it might. My device would have helped the glaucoma. But you know, when he, you know, it was just one of those things, he was, he was very bitter about, about science and, and what they'd done to him because of his preaching about the harmful effects of, of power, frequency and all of this stuff. You know what I mean? So he lost all his funding and. Yeah, I mean, the guy regrouped a fingertip, a human adult fingertip from a stump. You know, you think that that would have been on the COVID of Time magazine or, you know, at least he would have gotten a Nobel prize for that. But see, it's too simple. You know, it's, it's simple, stupid, and it's inexpensive, and that's not how the world works. You know what I mean? There's probably seven or eight really viable free energy machines out there and they've killed most of the people that have come up with them.

Gotcha. Well, you know, there's so much information out there about PEMF and some of the things that it can work on. I've personally kind of been geeking out on the whole brainwave concept and ways that I can amplify my own brainwaves. I've been doing some heart rate variability testing. I've been working with the HeartMath device to try and amplify my brain waves that way. And this looks like another great way to enhance sleep, and it looks like it's got some other benefits as well. So what I'll do is I'll link to everything in the show, notes to this podcast for people to go check out, because there's a lot more information than we could really even get to in the short period of this interview. But I at least want to turn people onto it so they can start to consider implementing this in their training, or if they or someone they know is. Is kind of having trouble on the sleep front or even the mental focus front, use it with that. So, Paul, thank you for coming on the call today and sharing the information about this with us and for letting us know about the Earth pulse.

Yeah, it was my pleasure. And let me just close with. There isn't another ergogenic type of technology out there that can come close to this. Steroids. Yeah, but they're illegal. Epo blood doping. Yeah, but they're illegal. Not to mention the side effects of both. But you get just as much of a performance boost at the same body weight with this technology. And, you know, it's completely untestable, completely legal. So you guys that are competitors out there and yourself, you know, you want to shave some time off that Iron Man.

Yeah, yeah. And that's kind. Know what a lot of folks listening to this show are looking for is the extra edge. So that's what I'm trying to do is hook people up with as many extra edges as possible. So thank you so much, Paul.

Hey, thanks so much. I enjoyed it, Ben.