How To Build Primal Fitness And Endurance By Hunting: An Interview With A Bowhunting Triathlete

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Foreign.

Greenfield and you may know that I actually grew up in North Idaho, eastern Washington, surrounded by lots of, of hunters and, and fishers, fishermen, and I've personally been hunting whitetail deer in my backyard for about the past four years. I've been fishing since I was a kid and we've even had podcasts about whether deer meat is healthy. And you know, you know, in the recent podcast, if you listened to it, we had the guy from the Art of manliness on Brett McKay and he talked about one way to accomplish the p of being a man. The provision part of providing is to hunt. My guest on today's podcast is a guy named Shad Wheeler. And Shad is from a website called gothunts.com, which he'll tell us a little bit more about, but it's basically like a hunting and guiding. And Chad is actually a friend of mine. He's a guy who I've coached in the past for triathlon. He lives about 20 miles from me. He's an entrepreneur, he's a bow hunter, he's a triathlete. And today we're going to be talking about how to build fitness, how to build endurance, and how to kind of tap into something new when it comes to human primal movement, specifically via hunting and one one of Shad's areas of expertise, bow hunting. So this is going to be a fun podcast. Shad, thanks for coming on, man.

You bet, Ben, thanks for having me.

So bow hunting, I know is something kind of near and dear to your heart because your dad was really involved with the commercial. I think a lot of people might be familiar with the whole Bowflex made for TV exercise device or as seen on TV exercise device. Can you tell us about that?

Yeah, you know, I mean, it's kind of crazy because, you know, a lot of people tend to think that Bowflex was this, you know, big overnight success. And the, the reality was those guys, they actually started that company. There was a group of three of them, they started that company back in 1986.

Wow.

And so, so as he likes to tell it, it was a ten year overnight success.

Yeah, because that was like, that was like Long before you saw like the Bowflex on infomercials stuff.

Yeah, so, so, I mean, it was, it was interesting, you know, growing up and kind of being around that just because, I mean, you got to see all the, the ups and downs, the challenges, the, the, I mean, the near misses of the company failing before it ever reached, you know, the type of.

Success to where it became almost a household name.

So anyways, my dad, the main role he played was in the, was on the marketing side. So he's the one that developed a lot of the commercials that everybody was.

Seeing and figured out, you know, what.

Channels to run them on. And one of his big things that they did is back when he was there, all their commercials only used real Bowflex customers. They didn't use fitness models.

So I thought that was a pretty.

Cool thing to see from the standpoint of, well, especially when you think about today, what's the big movement marketing wise, with regards to social media? It's trying to get your customers to sell your product on your behalf based on their experience with it.

Yeah, that's kind of true.

And that's, in reality, that's what they were doing back then, just through a different medium.

So what was your, was your dad or the folks who kind of made this Bowflex exercise device? I think you were talking to me about this at one point, how like it was originally designed to get you stronger for, for bow hunting, right?

No, actually the, the concept of the bow was the. Because of the flex of the rods.

But wasn't it like inspired by an actual bow? Like, like.

Yeah, well, so, so it was actually, it was a guy from Ethiopia who developed the first prototype. And that, that was what inspired him was the idea of, you know, of how a bow works and how it builds tension. Right, right. And that, that was what inspired him as far as, you know, coming up with the initial design concept and everything else. And then you know, obviously from there they had to do a bunch of research, you know, into figuring out the best materials and stuff so that, you know, you would get as close to though, as a constant tension instead of just a building tension. Because like with bows, you know, they.

They leverage, you know, like on a.

Compound, they leverage cams to alleviate some of that tension, yet maintain the same amount of stored energy at the end versus like a longbow. If you're drawing a longbow, the further you draw that bow, the more tension it's building, the more weight that you're holding.

Yeah.

And so, you know, that's one of Those challenges, you know, that they had to overcome was figuring out how to create that. That flex pattern, you know, in the. In the rods, so that it maintained a constant tension so that, you know, you didn't start off with a 25 pound, you know, setting that by the time, you know, if you had long arms, by the time you're out to the end, all of a sudden, you know, you're actually at, you know, 60, 70 pounds.

Do you still work out on one of those. The bowflux?

You know what? I haven't in a while. And it's not because I don't want to. It's just I don't have one.

You know, my.

My dad, I think. I think he got done. I think he retired from Bowflex. And it was either 99 or. Yeah, I think it was like 98 or 99.

Yeah, you need to talk to your dad. Get yourself hooked up with a. With a Bowflex. He's probably like 50 in his garage, Right?

Well, I know, I know he's got at least one of the. The very first models sitting out there, so.

Nice. Nice. So did you grow up hunting? Was that kind of like a part of your upbringing?

You know what? It was, you know, my. My dad, my mom's dad, my grandpa, you know, hunted and. And so that was. That was something that I did from a young age. Just even getting to spend time, you know, I mean, I went out with them a lot before I could even, you know, necessarily hunt. Just to be along. I mean, I still remember, you know, probably one of the highlights of my childhood was the first time that I got to go out and help pack an elk out.

Yeah, those are big animals.

Yeah. And I was all of, you know, 8 years old, and, you know, my job was to pack the head.

Yeah. How heavy is a head of an owl?

Oh, it was probably like, you know.

35 pounds with the, you know, the head and the hide and stuff on there. But, you know, but. But the. The coolest part to me was I felt like I was one of the men. You know, I was packing that thing out. I'm going to do this. And so that was. That was pretty cool. But, yeah, so, I mean, shoot, all of.

All the way from.

I mean, the time I was probably about four or five, I was out in the woods and, you know, looking for animals and trying to trap squirrels and so.

So when. When did you start bow hunting? Was that something that. That your parents did or that your dad did?

Yeah.

Yep. Actually, my mom and dad both used to bow hunt when I was in middle school and high school and. But I actually, I actually started shooting a bow. I mean like a lot of kids do, you know, I had the, the little plastic, you know, jobbers when I was, was little and I used to try and build my own and stuff. But, but I started getting real serious as far as, you know, shooting a bow when I was about 12 and, and then basically I think when I was 13 was the first year that I went straight up, you know, bow hunting for, I think it was an elk was actually the first animal I went after.

Yeah. Now I've never really hunted with one of the, one of the newer like compound bows. You know, as a kid, you know, I always had the, you know, the regular, you know, longbow bow and arrow just for, for playing around and stuff. But tell me about how, how difficult it is to actually pull on a compound bow like of, you know, like, like do you have to be super strong to pull one of these things back or how are they built these days?

No, that's what, you know, that's what's so great especially about like the new bows because they, they're so much more efficient, you know, with regards to the compounds. So reality wise, you know, I mean.

You know, in most states it's right.

Around like 40 to 42 pounds is the, the legal hunting weight. And, and the reality is, is with, you know, how efficient they are and the new materials that they're using for arrows and everything else, you know, I mean, if that's all you can draw, you know, you're still good to go.

You know, I mean that'll, that'll do the job on deer sized animals.

Now if you want to go elk, I mean, it'll still do the job, but it's going to become vitally important that you make a very good shot. So from the, from the physical difficulty standpoint, you know, I mean, it's all.

Based on your draw weight and then.

There'S design elements that go into some.

Of the different bows as far as how the let off works and you.

Know, what, what, what the, you know, what we call the valley is like. So basically, you know, where does the cam break over and what's that feel like right when you're drawing? Because some bows have a, well, it's no different than like, you know, training like for the triathlon stuff. You know, you have perceived exertion level. Some bows create a perception that it's a much harder draw than other bows because of how the cams work.

Okay.

So, you know, the most important thing for somebody that's wanting to get going.

Is to go to a good shop like here in Spokane, we got Spokane Valley Archery, where you can go and.

Actually test them out and be able to actually feel what they feel like to you and find that one that's a good fit. Because everybody kind of has, you know, different biomechanics, they have different ways that the grip feels right, you know, so.

The most important thing is, you know.

Is me personally, you know, I'm shooting.

A Hoyt right now, but somebody else.

May find that the Hoyt just feels totally uncomfortable to them and they may. You'll end up going with an elite or with a bow tech or with a Matthews. So it's, it really comes down to.

Just kind of that, that personal preference.

And finding that bow that's a good fit for you. But from the standpoint of being able to physically draw them, I mean, it's.

That'S what's so great about the new ones.

I mean, and they've got, they've got cool ones too, for people that are just getting started. Like, I think Matthews makes like, it's called the Genesis, and I think it adjusts up to.

I've seen that one on Amazon before.

Yeah, And I think, I think that one there, like at its max, is like right at around like 40 pounds. But the cool thing with it is it's got a progressive draw length deal on it. So you can get one of those and your kids can shoot it and you can shoot it.

Interesting. Like, like how, like how, how old would a kid need to be in order to use a bow like that?

Oh, probably right there around nine or ten.

Okay, so. So you don't have to be super strong to pull on that thing.

No, because that's what's cool is you. I mean, you canyou can dial the weight on that thing because you just back the limbs out a little bit and. But I mean, they've got some really cool stuff out there. And not to mention, though, they're making some awesome youth youth model bows now. So, I mean, there's tons of options out there. But I mean, you definitely don't have to be super strong. I mean, most people would probably look at me and, you know, the way I'm built these days, you know, and think I'm kind of a skinny guy.

Right.

You know, but at the same time, I mean, obviously I've trained those muscles and, you know, and I shoot a bow that, that, you know, draws out at 72 pounds.

Okay.

But the, but the reality of it is, is, I mean, to me, drawing it, it doesn't feel like it.

Right, but you're pulling 72 pounds back with one arm.

Yeah, but the, but the difference is those two of those, I, you know, I've been shooting for years, right. So I've built up that, that muscle memory and everything else. So for somebody else to get started, you know, I mean, shoot, you know, get a, Get a bow that's, you know, allows you to adjust between 60 and 70 or 50 and 60 and, you know, you'll be good to go. You just start off and work your way in because, I mean, that's where a lot of people get in trouble. Is this, this kind of the ego side of it?

Oh, yeah.

I'm shooting an 80 pound bow.

Yeah.

It doesn't really gain you anything, I mean, other than some kinetic energy.

And I mean.

And the interesting thing was, I mean, I just got back from Africa where I took a Cape buffalo with my 72 pound bow shooting about 760 grain arrows. And I mean, I saw the picture you sent me.

That thing is huge.

Yeah. And I mean, it totally did the job. But it used to be, you know, the common, common approach to going and hunting Cape buffalo was to set your bow up with, you know, 80, 90, even, you know, 110 pound limbs on it.

Mm.

So that you could, you know, be generating enough kinetic energy. But that's what I was saying earlier. You know, the efficiency of the new bows has gotten to such a point that, you know, you don't have to do that anymore.

So you go all the way over to Africa to hunt.

Yeah, well, that was, that was my first trip to Africa and that was actually kind of a dream trip for me. So it was a, it was an unreal experience getting to see all the different animals. And, you know, I got a chance to do a couple of things, though, that were really cool there. One was I got to hear a leopard.

Wow.

Which is just unreal.

So like a knight's in a tent or.

No, we were actually.

We were sitting up on a ridge glass and all of a sudden, I mean. And if you've never heard a leopard, it's a very different sound. They don't roar like a lion or anything. They do like this grunt and it sounds like.

Have you ever heard like the big logging buck saws?

Mm.

You know? Well, that's kind of what a leopard sounds like when they, when they get going, they're like. But it's, it's incredible how loud it is.

Wow.

So how. How close was it to you?

He was the next ridge over from.

Us, so probably, you know, 800, a thousand yards away. But it was. It was unreal as far as how that entire valley immediately went silent. I mean, even the birds stopped chirping. It was just. Yeah, it was. It was so cool. And then.

And then the other cool thing I got to do on that trip, though, is I actually got to help do a live capture and relocation of some kudu.

Really?

Yeah. Which was. I mean, that was a really neat experience.

What's a kudu?

Kudu is one of the big, larger members of the antelope family. Okay.

Those are the ones like that with, like, the curved horns?

Yeah, they got the big spiral horns.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, cool, cool.

And.

Yeah, so that was. That was pretty neat. That was something I wasn't expecting.

So was that all with this. This guiding gig that you work for? This. This Got Hunts place?

Yeah. So. Well, so our company's actually. The name of our company is actually Outdoors International.

Okay.

And then got hunts.com is our website, and probably the easiest way to explain to people what we are. You can kind of think of us as like a. A travel agent slash consultant for global hunting adventures. So helping people find, you know, great adventures around the world.

So. So if you wanted to go bow hunting in Africa, like, you. You could, like, somebody could give you a call and actually get in on a trip like that?

Yes.

Yep.

Interesting. All right, cool. I'm. I'm going to put a link to that in the show notes, too, because I'm. I'm actually personally pretty interested in that myself, but I want to. I want to. Into. Into hunting. Like, why bow hunting? Why. Why would you want to do bow hunting versus firearm?

You know what I mean? I did, you know, I've taken some animals with firearms and, you know, it just. For me, it was a personal choice. I guess it's no different than, you know, why do a triathlon or anything else. It was the challenge.

It was the fact that it.

It really forced me to kind of have to up my game as far as matching my. My wits, my skills, my physical capabilities against animals in their own setting. And the. So how.

How close do you have to be to an animal to. To take it with a bow?

You know what I mean? My. My goal is to be 40 yards or less.

That's pretty close. Yeah, that's hard to get that close.

It is. It's, you know, and it's just a lot of times it takes patience and I mean, you know, there was a lot of years where I didn't get anything when I was learning and making lots of mistakes. And the reality of it is, though, is, you know, I guess that's the other reason why I like bow hunting is to me, it's the experience. It's not necessarily whether or not I get an animal. I mean, these days, my biggest concern with getting an animal is to try and get an elk to fill the freezer. You know, I mean, not saying I don't, you know, don't like getting you a big bowl or whatever, but the reality of it is is, you know.

That'S all my family's been eating for.

The last several years is, you know, elk and deer meat.

So.

Yeah, yeah. And like I mentioned, we had a podcast about deer.

Me.

I mean, that's. That's why I hunt. Just because, you know, it's. It's a little bit of extra meat for the freezer. You know, I've never been like, trophy hunting or, you know, gone after animals in Africa or anything like that. And I would imagine, I don't know, do you guys. Do you guys get called out, like, with your. With your outdoors international organization? Like, do you get kind of some kickback from people who aren't. Aren't a big fan of the whole, like, you know, trophy hunting type of approach?

Well, I mean, we get kickback just period. I mean, it's. I mean, it's.

It's interesting how many death threats you get and.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, because when you go and take. Take down like a Cape buffalo or something, you know, a lot of people would say, you know, killing a sacred animal, like, what do you say to that?

What do I say? That. I'd say that that meat actually went to the locals, and then anything that they didn't want off of that went on to a company that actually makes Bilton.

What's Biltong?

It's like beef jerky.

Really? So you're feeding people when you're taking down an animal like that?

Yep.

You know, just like chopping off the head and.

Nope.

And making a mouth.

Well, I mean, and there. There's nothing that goes to waste on them. I mean, it's. It's interesting to especially, like. That was an eye opener, though, to see the degree to which, you know, I mean, you know, I take pride in salvaging, you know, all the meat that I can get off, you know, an animal, but over there, I mean, you know, they even take it to a whole nother level because I Mean, they, they use the stomachs for stuff. I mean, you know, it's just amazing how much stuff that, you know, they, they actually use from the animal.

Yeah, it's kind of like the whole nose to tail approach.

Yes.

My wife actually just, just bought and butchered a pig. And I mean, there's, there's. We're eating like head cheese and she's got like, the stomach and like every single part of that pig she used. I mean, like, boiling up the hooves, like everything. It's crazy.

And so anyway, so, I mean. But you know, a lot of, a lot of people think that, you know, hunting is just about, about the kill. And that's where I was kind of starting to go is, you know, it's not, you know, that is, that is, you know, I mean, a nice benefit, especially, you know, like we were talking about, you know, to fill the freezer. But the, you know, the bigger part to me is, you know, is the experience of being out there, getting in close proximity to those animals. And it's just, you know, it's disengaging from a society that's going faster and faster and faster and is more and more connected. When I'm out there, it's just, you know, me, the terrain and God, I mean, that's what's there. And that's what I take joy from, is that opportunity. And then you're getting to share that with other people.

Yeah. Now, you also did triathlon. I mean, do you think it was the same thing that kind of like that, that desire to be in nature and kind of maybe even like, be alone a little bit and get a chance to just like dwell on your own thoughts that drew you into triathlon too. Or why, Why'd you throw triathlon into the mix?

You know, I think it was a little bit of that. And I think a little bit of that too, though, was the fact that, like, you know, back in, like high school and stuff, when most people are playing sports, you know, I was, I was a late bloomer. And so in high school, I mean, you know, I was, you know, an all right tennis player, but I didn't, I didn't get to play much, you know, football and things like that. Like, you know, I wanted to. And so even back then, I mean, like, hunting was kind of my outlet. Right. And with hunting, I mean, you're not competing against anybody. You're only competing against yourself.

Right.

It's your mental toughness, it's your willingness to endure hardship, to push yourself to see what's over that Next ridge to, you know, hike down to the bottom of that valley. You know, you never think about it.

As like competing against, against the animal you're hunting.

Because at the end of the day, I mean, it's all on me. It's. It's what I do. It's not necessarily what the animal does. Right. The animal is going to do what it's going to do regardless. And so then it's, I look at it strictly as, you know, me pushing myself to, to, you know, get smarter about, you know, the animal, its environment, its behaviors, you know, what's its defense mechanisms, what's it, you know, where's it going to be looking to, you know, move through, where's it going to be looking to bed down? You know, that's. It's all on me. It's. It's not me against the animal.

Right.

You know, it's. It's strictly me against me. And so like with the triathlons, it was kind of that same thing. I mean, yeah, you know, I get that you're competing against the other guys that are racing, but the reality of it to me was I was competing against myself.

Yeah.

You know, and I mean, like, when I was training with you, you know, it was, it was looking for those incremental improvements. Right. So did I do better this race versus last race, you know, or, you know, am I showing you improvement on my overall, you know, average speed on the bike? You know, it's those types of things.

And.

Yes. And then it's, you know, when you're out on the course, I mean, it's. It's you and your brain and your thoughts.

Yeah.

You know, there's nothing else. There's nothing else going.

Do you think, do you think bow hunting, like, you know, triathlon is obviously kind of like at the pointy edge of fitness. And I know you worked all the way up to half ironman in your own triathlon training and racing, but, but comparatively, like, how would you say hunting and specifically bow hunting kind of matches up to stuff like that in terms of fitness.

You know, I would say if you're doing western and mountain style, you'll spot and stalk type stuff. It's absolutely. Because that's probably your number one factor for success is going to be your physical capability. Obviously you've grown up here in this area. You know what the mountains are like in North Idaho. Right. I mean, you can't go over there and, you know, be a couch potato who doesn't get out and do anything and expect that you're Going to be able to hike more than, you know, 100, 200 yards from the road or.

Be able to pack an animal out, right?

Yeah.

I mean, like, I've got a picture if people want to see it, like all, all over. If you go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com bowhunt@BenGreenfulFitness.com bowhunt I've got a picture of Shat and he's like packing this big. I don't know. What are you packing there, man? Is that an elk?

That's an oak. Yep.

Yeah. And I mean, you're obviously still just as lean as you were when you were doing triathlon, but you know, you got to be in shape for this stuff. What do you do to, I mean, do you just, do you just hunt to be fit for hunting or do you have a specific workout routine that you do to keep you fit for something like bow hunting?

You know what I, I've started actually doing. I think you actually know Kenton Claremont.

Kenton Claremont?

Yeah, yeah.

Trainer. And is he over in Liberty Lake?

No, he's actually, I think he actually.

Lives out towards like Valley Ford or.

Whatever, but he's got a program actually specifically for hunters called Train to Hunt. Oh, really?

Yeah.

And, and so, and he's actually got.

It'S actually turning into a race series too.

Is that like a competitive series? Train to hunt.com yes.

Yep.

And anyway, so I do some of, some of his stuff because what he does is he incorporates, you know, some of the elements from, from CrossFit and stuff, but he tries to keep it very focused on hunter centric type of movements and exercises. So things that will help you with your stability, with your balance, with your agility. So it's good stuff. And then he does a lot of stuff too, around basically doing load bearing exercises. So basically packs with weights or hauling sandbags. So things that get your body ready to undertake that. I mean, obviously the best thing you can do, you know, is, is to be out in the, in the actual terrain where you're going to be hunting and you know, hiking because, you know, the unstable footing, the, you know, blow downs, boulders, whatever, you know, jumping around through all that stuff, I mean, that's going to be your hands down best preparation. But I mean, I do a lot of stuff, even like, you know, when I'm mowing my yard here, you know, I've got kind of a hilly yard, I'll throw a backpack on with some weight in it while I'm mowing. You know, I run a lot just to train, you'll keep that, that cardiovascular side up.

Sounds kind of, kind of similar, like Spartan training. I'm looking at his Train to Hunt website. Like these train hunt challenges. Like, what do you do like it, like, do, you know, like if you show up to compete in one of these challenges that he has. Like what, like what's involved?

Well, yeah, so there's, there's a number of different things.

So, you know, I mean, at a high level, you know, you, you've got, so you've got a kind of like a physical fitness challenge day, which is basically like, you know, you're doing like sandbag carries. You do what they call the, the meat haul challenge, which I think if I remember right, that's like you gotta haul 160 pounds over a certain distance and it's timed right. You've got different, different exercise stations that you've gotta, you know, you've gotta complete different physical challenges and stuff. And so that whole thing's timed.

And then you, you're also scored though.

On, on, you know, completing your exercises and doing all that kind of stuff. And then they, the, the second part they do to it though is a 3D bow shoot with exercises. So like you get to a station and you got to run from station to station and you've got a weighted pack with a certain amount of weight that you got to carry, you know, throughout the course.

And then, and then when you get.

There, a lot of times there's like a specific exercise or something you have to do and then you've got to shoot at the target and you have to. You can't use a range finder, right. You got to what the yardage is. And then depending on where you hit, you can either get time penalties or you can be assessed having to do some additional exercises. So it could be, you know, doing burpees.

Yeah, it sounds, sounds like the Spartan spear thrower. You're doing burpees.

Yeah. And so, so anyways, just depending on what you do. And then basically the idea is you're taking your, your overall score for the two days and, and then that's how they're, they're ranking, you know, where you finish.

Yeah, I'm looking at Ken's website. He calls himself the fittest bow hunter in the West. Is he fitter than you, man? Could you take.

Yeah, no, I, I think he's probably.

Fitter than I am.

At least, at least strength wise, right?

Running wise, I might be able to give him a run.

But yeah, this is like Crossfitting for Hunters. This is pretty cool. Trainohunt.com Interesting. It looks like it's like a membership website. That's, that's pretty interesting. They've, they've got one in, looks like they've got one in Bonner's Ferry, Farragut, a couple hours from my house. Interesting.

Yeah.

And I mean it's, it's growing, which.

Is really cool to see, you know.

That it's, it's getting traction and you know, you're getting a pretty, pretty fanatical group of, you know, bow hunters, you know, going. In fact, I think they're just getting ready right now though to have nationals I think this weekend down in Oregon.

I think, yeah, if somebody really wanted to challenge themselves like you guys do these, these guided hunts with Outdoors International, but if, let's say somebody really wanted to not just learn a little bit about bow hunting, get into bow hunting and go on one of your hunts, but they want to challenge themselves to actually do something that would be pretty physically demanding because you know, a lot of our listeners are like spartan athletes and ironman athletes and stuff like that. Which one of the hunts do you think would be like one of the more difficult? Looks like you guys have like an Alaskan grizzly bear hunt.

Oh man. Alaska moose hunt probably, you know, physical challenge wise. I mean there's some of the elk hunts, they're going to be just butt kickers just because of the terrain you're.

Going to be hunting in the Idaho archery. Elk hunting.

Yeah, there's some of those.

But most, most likely though, I mean probably some of the most physical hunts.

You can do is going to be.

Mountain goat and, or dall sheep and stone sheep.

Wow. Are you just going straight? Well, for the mountain goat, is that firearm or is that bow?

It's your choice. So like, I mean like I, I, I was lucky enough, you know, I, I took a really good mountain goat with my bow a few years back and, but you know, on a lot of those hunts though, I mean you're, you're going backpack style. So like just to give you an example, like I did a, a doll sheep hunt up in the Yukon and we got flown into one drainage through our backpacks on and then straight line, straight line distance. So this isn't accounting for terrain or anything else. From where we got dropped off to where we were getting picked up was 16 miles.

Yeah.

And so, so it doesn't sound like a lot, but the reality is, is.

By the time that you actually on.

That terrain, that's all.

Yeah. And well, and Then by the time, you know, you're navigating all the, you know, drainages and everything else and you're hiking up to different glassing points and stuff, you know, you're dealing with shale slopes. So basically, you know, one step up, half step back, you know, and you're doing all this with, you know, 55 to 60 pound backpack on your back.

Yeah.

You know, and so, so you think, you know, six, seven days straight of doing that, you know, and then you got weather being thrown at you. And so it's, you know, if somebody's looking for a challenge, I mean, that's the kind of hunt that will definitely, you know, push you both physically and mentally.

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I'd say probably that. Probably that dull sheep hunt.

Yeah. Just because of the mountains. Was that, was that the one in British Columbia?

No, it was up in the Yukon.

Really?

Well, not just because of the mountains. It was just, I mean we had.

You know, all kinds of weather. I mean we got stuck in a little two man tent for three days with rain. You know, you have the physical side of it, you know, but I mean it was, it was also probably one of the most rewarding hunts that I've been on.

Yeah. And do you, do you pack the mountain goat out?

Yeah.

Oh yeah. So packed it down and basically, you know, like. So on that one there from where I shot my, my ram on that hunt we had about a 8 mile pack to the quote unquote airstrip, aka sandbar for the bush plane to be able to come in and get us.

Wow, that's nuts. So do you think that like bow hunting versus firearm hunting, like if this was something that somebody wanted to get into. Do you think it's more humane or fair to the animal to bow hunt and challenge yourself by having to get closer to the animal and track it down a little bit more intensively than like shooting it from across the ridge?

You know, I really think that, you.

Know, for the most part that's a personal decision and I'm not trying to like, you know, escape making a statement on that. It's just, you know, I mean, for.

Some people, you know, physically, you know.

Or even like time wise and stuff, they're just, you know, they're not going to be able to become proficient with a bow. And so if you're not proficient with the weapon that you're using, that's where it becomes inhumane. That's where you, you know, you're going to be wounding an animal and that's, that's, you know, nobody wants to do that. So, you know, the way I look at it is, is, you know, whatever course you take, you know, is just making sure that you become proficient and that you're, you know, ethical in, in your decisions as to, you know, when to win to or not to take a shot.

Yeah. Because if you take a bad shot with a bow, I mean, obviously the same thing with a firearm, but I mean, you've just got an animal, you know, running off with an arrow in its backside, Right?

Yeah.

I mean, you know, I mean, you know, most of the guys that I.

Know though, I mean, even if they.

Make a bad shot, you know, I mean, they will do everything they can to, you know, recover that animal. Yeah. I mean, like, I mean, as an example, I mean like I had a.

Client last year that I was guiding out in Wyoming and he, he hit an elk high and back and you know, I spent 16 hours tracking that thing and I mean, and you know, could never find him. Luckily, I mean, a couple days later we actually ended up seeing that bull and he had already, you know, the wounded already scabbed up and you know, he wasn't showing any ill effects, but you know, you just don't like that. And so, I mean, you know, you make sure that you put in the effort to, you know, do justice to that animal too because, you know, you don't want it to, to just go and suffer and, or go to waste.

Yeah, yeah. How much can somebody expect to spend on like a, like a good bow?

On a good bow these days? Here you're probably going to be looking at like fully set up with, you know, sites and all that stuff. You're probably, you know, for a brand new one, going to be, oh, right around probably a thousand dollars.

And then like, like, how much does it cost? Like, let's say somebody got a bow and they, they really wanted to just like, delve in and immerse themselves in this and like, like go on a hunt with you guys or something and kind of learn how to do things the right way. How much does a hunt cost?

You know what I mean? The reality is, is on that, I mean, we've got hunts going from, you know, 600 bucks all the way up to, you know, I've got Kashmir markhor in Pakistan. That's $135,000.

Holy cow. Yeah.

So, you know, a big part of it comes down to, you know, the, the experience that the person's looking for.

And what their, you know, their budget.

Is as far as for a guided trip.

How much experience does somebody have to have to go on a hunt? Like, do they need to have. Have already hunted extensively or do you take, you know, gum shoes out there?

Nope. I mean, you know, the, the reality is, especially on the outfitted hunts, I mean, that's, that's the way that, you know, for a lot of people that, you know, that didn't grow up around.

Hunting and are getting into hunting later.

In life, that's probably one of the. Actually the best ways to get started is to go on an outfitted hunt because you're going to have a guide there who's got a ton of knowledge and experience, and it's going to basically not only be teaching you, but helping you through the process. And, you know, I mean, it's. It's amazing, you know, because you're working as a guide, you know, not only are you, you know, trying to find them, you know, help them find an animal, but you also end up playing cheerleader and psychologist.

Yeah.

Because, you know, because buck fever is a very real thing.

What's buck fever?

It's where your adrenaline gets cranking up and people start shaking and everything else when they're getting ready to, you know, try and take a shot at an animal.

All right. Yeah.

And so, you know, so you're sitting there talking them through it, you know, trying to, you know, get them, you know, breathing calm down. Don't look at the antlers, you know, don't look at the horns, you know, just focus on a spot, breathe, and then squeeze the trigger. You know, I mean, it's just, it's interesting. And, you know, to me, one of.

The, one of the more challenging parts about bow hunting. When I take a deer, it's like, if I've got in my sights at like 100 yards, it knows. You know, when it seems like it just senses and knows they're looking at it, and I'm like, I can't imagine getting even closer and still being able to take a good shot. Like, how do you do that? Do you just, like. I mean, like, I've. Even. I've. Even when I've been hunting, tried to avoid eye contact with the scope until the last possible minute, because I feel like the deer could just, like, feel me looking down that scope. And you see its head pop up, and it's like it senses you. Like, like, how do you. How do you overcome that when you're. When you're sneaking up on an animal for. For a bow shot?

I just.

I just put the thought out there.

You know, I'm just a farmer. I'm just a farmer. I'm just a farmer.

Really?

No.

No, it's.

You know, I agree. I've seen it a lot of times. I'm positive that animals can pick up that predatory instinct. But the reality is, you know, big part of it's, you know, playing wind, you know, avoiding fast movements.

What do you mean, playing wind?

Most animals, number one defense mechanism is going to be their sense of smell. So you always got to be aware of what the wind's doing, because if they pick up a whiff of you, then you're toast. They're done. So you're always trying to be aware of what the wind's doing. You don't want fast movements. And then the other thing is, don't move in direct lines. That's what predators do. So if you've got an animal, say, at 100 yards straight in front of you, you know, you'll. What you'll probably be doing is looking for, you know, cover and a line of approach that'll take you off maybe to the side and then start kind of bringing you back around. Because if you're moving just directly at them and they pick you up, you know, they're going to peg you as a predator versus if you just kind of take your time, you're moving slow and easy. Well, I mean, rally is. You know, if you watch deer, you know, they very rarely walk in straight lines, and they very rarely walk a long distance without stopping. So you try and think about how does that animal move and then try and mimic kind of how they're moving, right? So maybe you move 10 yards and then you stop and wait for A little bit. Then you move another five yards and stop and wait for a little bit. And just patience is probably the biggest factor. It's not saying that everyone's going to work out, but, you know, being. Being patient is key. But the other side of it, too, though, is knowing when to be aggressive, you know, because there's a lot of times, too, though, where, you know, you've got a limited, you know, window, and you've got to close distance. And so you got to kind of pick and choose, you know, when to make a, you know, a bold move versus when to, you know, just sit and wait.

Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Man, this outdoors international, it looks. It looks pretty cool. I'm gonna. I'm gonna link to this in the show notes, but I definitely want to get on a hu. You guys, this looks killer.

Well, we'd love to get you.

Get you set up.

It looks a lot more interesting than just the basic firearm whitetail deer hunting I've been doing the past few years. This is the next level, dude.

Well, yeah, I mean, that's part of what's kind of neat, though, is just. Well, like, going to Africa, though. I mean, it was. The experience was, you know, the being there hunting was just kind of the. The secondary.

Right, right.

You know, that's.

I mean, that's. That's what I've experienced just, like, doing triathlons internationally, you know, like in Thailand and Chile, Vietnam. It's like the triathlon.

It.

You know, it's a little bit of the icing on the cake, but, you know, it's the experience of getting there, being immersed in a different culture, kind of getting to. To experience life on a different continent or a different country. Yeah, I mean, like, that's definitely cool, but, I mean, even. Even some of the hunts you're doing right here in my backyard, you know, like in Idaho and. And British Columbia and Washington look pretty cool.

Yeah. Well, in fact, actually, I think we're going to be up in British Columbia the first week of October on a mountain goat hunt, so I'm going to be actually filming that.

Nice.

That should be a pretty fun one. It'll be a good physical one.

I'll be down drinking margaritas and watching Ironman Hawaii.

There you go.

I'll be hunting triathletes. Well, cool. So if you're listening in, you can go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com/BowHunt and check out some of the stuff Shad and I were talking about. I'll. I'll put a link over to those Train to Hunt challenges and some of Ken Claremont stuff too, if you're interested. And it looks like his stuff is like a subscription, some kind of like a hunting subscription website, but looks like they, they've got some pretty cool workouts over there too, so you can check that out.

And just so you know, just to clarify on that, Ben, on, on Kent and stuff, you know, I mean, you don't have to be a subscriber to be able to go do the contests, you know, to go do the, the challenges, so.

Gotcha.

Yeah, yeah, it's on that. You're, you're paying to get, get all the, the workouts and stuff.

Yeah, I'm tempted. Go see how my, how my Spartan racing fitness matches up to the, to the Train to Hunt fitness. It sounds pretty similar actually. Just like a lot of, a lot of rucking and carrying heavy stuff around and. Yeah, throwing spears under pressure.

That's right.

Cool. Cool. Well, Shad, thanks for coming on, man. This was really fun.

Well, thanks for having me, Ben. I appreciate it.

All right, folks. Well, this is Ben Greenfield and Shad Wheeler from gothunts.com signing out from Ben Greenfield Fitness. Remember, you can leave your questions, your comments, your feedback over at BenGreenfieldFitness.com bowhunt and have a great week.

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